Moons of Ice and Fire 4: The Long Night Was His to Rule

[@sinjun1973]

I've said it before and I'll say it one more time, Dragonbinder doesn't get dragons to do anything! It was plain to see at the moot. When the horn was blown the fighting stopped and everyone got behind Euron and voted him in as king. Only for it's effect to wear off later and leave them wondering why. The dragons referred to on dragon binder are the Valerians. The horn is used to bind slaves to the Valerions and before they know it they're chained under the ground without a fuss. How many times have you heard a Targaryen refer to themselves as a dragon? We've seen Dragonbinder st work already. Euron has tricked his brother by lying about what it does and no one seems likely to enlighten him.

[@jobowisheshewasnomo4171]

very interesting take honestly.

[@stars-and-clouds]

interesting...

[@lanananans]

It's so clever how you connect it all and this video was made 5 years ago but it is like you made it yesterday!! Aged great 💪

[@NeverUseAnApostrophe]

It has aged even better a year plus later.

[@devoralynblackwood2785]

RE: Jon and Val “Fans of Jean Val Jean rejoice!” That was hilarious; I appreciate that joke :)

[@laurenajkirby]

When you talked about AA and NK symbolism in Stannis's "two queens," I noticed another pattern throughout some of the love triangles. In the cases of Stannis, Rhaegar, and Aegon the Conquerer we see one "queen" figure with whom AA/NK is with out of duty, and the other he actually has the hots for. However, the ice-fire parts are reversed sometimes. For example, Rhaegar is lukewarm about his fire queen, but hot for the ice one, whereas Stannis reject his ice queen and sleeps with the fire one. Aegon was the same with his sister-wives. I'm not sure what those implications might be for the astronomy portion, if any, though. Perhaps it's just historical parallels. I think the part about one relatively rejected bride people added to the moon mythology stories to give some context for the Solar King/AA having two wives in the first place. Makes me also wonder if AA wasn't super into NN in the first place, which is why he was keen on the blood sacrifice.

[@mrmaat]

Lauren Ashley Jessica Kirby Tyrion has this with Sansa moon maiden and Shae, his wife of desire.

[@laurenajkirby]

Yes! Great catch! I sometimes forget to include Tyrion in the major AA players for some reason. Guess I need to relisten to the "Tyrion Targaryen" episode!

[@DavidLightbringer]

Shae has a great scene where Tyrion sings about Shae as a winter maid: "A whiff of something rank made him turn his head. Shae stood in the door behind him, dressed in the silvery robe he'd given her. I loved a maid as white as winter, with moonglow in her hair. "

[@DavidLightbringer]

great comment, will take this one on the livestream next week. Cheers!

[@archmaesteremma1883]

Isn't Tyrion drinking red wine in that scene which he throws against the wall of the manse and it trickles down black?

[@lmeasley1262]

I for one can’t wait until the next video! Release it by Christmas please. It will be a wonderful Christmas present! Love your work!

[@DavidLightbringer]

Well the good news is that I've written most of it already. Looks like the livestream will be this Saturday at 3:00 EST, btw, so come on down :)

[@michaeltavizon8333]

Rewatch binge 🎉🎉🎉

[@stefiz]

Thank you For all the work you put into these! I’ve missed you on the ideas of ice and fire livestream! I’m about to listen to this one for the second time!

[@durrandurrandon6451]

So, first off thanks for finely coming up with a reason for Aemon to have blue gem eye. The connection to the ice dragon has always been obvious, but not having a reason for the connection has bothered me for a long time.. As for Rhaenys the Queen who Never Was being in this role of the fire moon, I think there is an interesting parallel between Rhaenys and AE/Nissa Nissa, in that , like Daenerys she is another usurped queen. The clear pattern is that no Targ/Dawnian queen ever gets to rule without being usurped.

[@DavidLightbringer]

Ah, great point. And it gets even better - in the next episode, we'll do the fight with Aemond One-Eye on Vhagar against Daemon and Caraxes. George makes really good use of the ice moon eye symbol there. ;)

[@ToothlessWizard]

Glad to see (hear) Martin Lewis back. Loving this series.

[@calikal1968]

Exactly....love to wake up to your goodies!!!Thank you LML you are the light in the long dark night!

[@adamlewis9597]

Loving this series bro..everytime I listen to abit of one of your videos I have to go and read abit. Keep up the great work....

[@joshwells3782]

They shouldve started house of the dragon with aegon and his sisters i like dance with dragons but id like to see the black dread melt harrenhall and the field of fire too

[@winterthekid]

Another stellar episode of LML knowledge!... Drop it like is a hot comet crashing into the world!

[@ToothlessWizard]

Raymond Feist was actually mentioned. Where my Fantasy Journey began. He's no George R. R. Martin but that Riftwar Saga of 30 books is pretty neat. :)

[@DavidLightbringer]

He did a lot of great stuff, world building and characters. Repetitive and formulaic but still good

[@meganwaybright1009]

“Hot damn there it is”😂 love your channel and theories.keep on keeping on LML

[@71invictus]

I just came upon this video and was going to mention the Crow's Eye whe you brought him u yourself, the "Forsaken" chapter from TWOW was utterly awesome.

[@DavidLightbringer]

Nice! It's always great when you can see where I am going, or rather where the text clues are leading us. Glad you enjoyed it! Have you seen my other videos or did you just stumble on this?

[@Henbot]

It’s amazing that they removed Val , it’s almost like they had Dany fill in with Val in the show. I also find it great that Stannis makes her a queen because it shows you he is already planning on having the wildlings assimilated into Westeros culture of monarchies by making them have their own queen.

[@rheeventures8144]

Perfect way to start my day

[@archmaesteremma1883]

Yay! Amazing as always :D So these are less questions, more fun spots that I saw and wanted to share because it's cool *fully expecting tumbleweed at that - can you even call it a pun? It's so bad* I remember the cold dead eyes phrase being applied to Ser Mandon Moore when he is busy carving Tyrion's face like a weirwood tree. Pretty Meris also has this description an absolute ton - I daren't even think about what that implies about the horrors of the NK/NQ, but anyway. It is also applied to the Stark statues in the crypts, because we always need more of the icy/Other-y Stark symbolism. Similarly for laughter dying when the horn blows during Selyse's other knights dance. This is similar to the "all the smiles died" at Harrenhal when Dragon Rhaegar makes overtures to Icy Lyanna. Is this just the Chesire Cat!Moon smile being broken? (like pretty pia's broken smile too, now that I think on it) Also, also, when it talks about "Others squat and hairy as the apes of Sothyros", is this a reference to the woman with the monkey's tail? Suggesting that her tail of monkeys were Others? Addition: apparently a monkey's tail is 17th is a euphemism for both a wanton woman and a penis, respectively. Not entirely sure what to make of that... Addition 2: Wikipedia says that the monkey tail plant is a *sea*side *heliotropic* flower *AND* a living fossil tree that can live for a thousand years *AND* a Chilean alcoholic drink made of milk and cloves - that all sounds rather important... whether it is or not is an entirely different matter haha Anywho, thanks for an awesome episode, as usual! :D

[@DavidLightbringer]

Nice catch on the dying smiles at Harrenhal, wish I had thought of that! Also on the cold dead eyes, that fits with Mandon being a white shadow and the Kings of Winter of course. Pretty Maris I will have to take another look at, but she could be a NQ figure I would think. Think the stream will be this Saturday, so I will see you then!

[@brandonlambert9768]

In Dany's dream of her ancestors the gemstone emperors they're wielding swords of pale fire which all but confirms for me that Dany is the woman standing beside Euron on the Iron Throne wielding pale fire. I think it is a sight of a day to come (although I'd be happier if it were of a day that never will be). However, I think she'll eventually break Euron thrall over her and battle him in a repeat of the Dance of Dragons with her emerging victorious.

[@josue.ortega]

Jon = a potentially righteous Night's King, just like Val or Sansa could be potentially just Night's Queen figures. They would understand the need to keep the cosmic balance between Ice and Fire. But there are other pretenders who would like to become King/Queen, not driven by a sense of duty to preserve the balance but by insatiable ambition to take over the world, thus breaking the balance. In the case of potentially insatiable Night's King figures, we clearly have Euron and possibly Roose Bolton, perhaps Mors Umber... On the Fire side, I think it's pretty clear that Daenerys is the potentially righteous Fire Queen. Arianne comes to mind as well. But, who could be the potentially unsatiable Fire King/Queen figures? (f)Aegon? Melisandre? Cersei? Daario?

[@deadgum11]

I very much like the thing you pointed out about George using the word "others" to almost describe 2 things at once, others as in, white walkers, and others as in, people around the point of view character. I was reading through an Arya chapter in ACOK earlier. Just after Yoren is killed, Arya, Gendry, Hot pie, Lommy and Weasel as making their way along the edge of the gods eye lake. Arya thinks how much she'd love to jump in the water and splash around, but she daren't take her clothes off in front of the others.....Others as in, Gendry and the rest, or others as in, there are WW on the gods eye?

[@mrmaat]

Yaaaaaaass it’s here!

[@wj6604]

Two and a half hours of brain food. Bliss.

[@DavidLightbringer]

Something to tide you over to Star Wars, basically

[@jojoladydayne7311]

Euron is both Europa & also Eurus - greek god of the unlucky east wind, one of the four directional Anemoi (Wind-Gods). He was associated with the season of autumn and dwelt near the palace of the sun-god Helios in the far east. (Stygai anyone?) Euron certainly blew in from the East & can control the winds.

[@Stanley_Lambchop]

JoJo Lady Dayne Thank you for writing the comment I was wondering myself. The meaning of the name Euron and it’s origins. George is creating modern mythology (LML gets the credit for that line in his latest live stream - the magical ending) and so multiple layers are there to be decoded and studied. On another level I think of ‘air on’ the side of caution when Euron is mentioned. Dayne I hear deign, an old English (1700s era) word associated with pride and being worthy of a task or wielding a sword...

[@jojoladydayne7311]

@@Stanley_Lambchop yes you are absolutely right that is another association with the word Dayne & yes GrrM is amazing the way he weaves all this together for us to unravel - it's certainly kept me busy for 20 years 💜

[@jojoladydayne7311]

@@Stanley_Lambchop I also like the possibility of a link between Day(ne) & Morn(e) & the Evenstar & Evenfall Hall on Tarth, what with Galladon of Morn & his Sword Just Maid, only ever unsheathed 3 times.

[@GaneshPrasadgnsp]

Jon is a kin slayer in a sense, because he killed the Halfhand (black brother)

[@DavidLightbringer]

Yeah, someone else mentioned that to me also. Good call!

[@jojoladydayne7311]

Perhaps this is because Qhorin asked him to kill him - it doesnt count.

[@nope5023]

Deepak Rao nah

[@brandonlambert9768]

Wasn't that more of a mercy killing since the Wildings would've most likely boiled him alive and his death allowed the Night's Watch to get a man on the inside of the enemies base of operation/camp. Besides if Jon hadn't killed him they both would've been killed.

[@VanHonkerton]

Not really symbolism as such and I've mentioned this few times during streams but one of Person Jacobs things reminded me; Bran eats Weirwood paste and the taste of it changes as he eats it, Aeron drinks Shade of Evening and the taste changed every time, same with Daenerys, also same with Arya with the candles in the house of B&W. Don't really have any point to any of this but thought to mention since it was interesting as they all seem to be exactly the same things.

[@theory813]

Hey LML, another great episode, thanks! I was thinking though, it would have been so much cooler if I had figured out this stuff on my own (not saying I could have). I have a suggestion for a future episode - give us the evidence and a hint or two about what to pay attention to, but none of the conclusions/analysis, and then give us a week to puzzle it out as well as we can. Then the next week do a followup episode where you show us your thought process about the conclusions. Not sure how it would turn out, but I think it would be a fun and interactive way to enjoy your content. It might also be interesting to hear some of the different conclusions people came to as well.

[@sirtiva7501]

Thumbs up people, only takes a second. LmL deserves it.

[@kaylin5352]

You know your a super nerd when you see that LML posted and you can’t wait for your commute home to dive right back into some symbolism.

[@DavidLightbringer]

This is the true miracle I have wrought. I have transmuted commuting pain! I am a god on earth!!

[@hgwells1899]

Sigh. Am I the only one suddenly crushing on Val?

[@DavidLightbringer]

No, you're not, and I was thrilled to find such great stuff going on in her scenes. Wonder what we'll see from her in TWOW?

[@hgwells1899]

The eternal triangle of ice and fire, you think? The fan-art, tho...ye gods ; )

[@skganno7771]

since the first read, i have allways fancied Val the most. too bad the show turn the role into whatever birgitte hjort-sørensen was. still have a little hope for someone looking like the actor who plays Lagertha in Vikings.

[@TKFKU]

Yes very likely. Most I know have been crushin on that one from the very start.

[@brandonlambert9768]

When is your next video coming out, LML? If we have to wait much longer I'm going to claw my face to ribbons like Catelyn Stark.

[@someguy7093]

snow on a wedding day equals a cold marriage there must have been a blizzard on stannis wedding day

[@UAPReportingCenter]

Great job!

[@rachrach8679]

2:13:02 I was supposed to wait until 2 hours in to start drinking!? 😂

[@Badgerbadger1]

1:27:30 But could you call it murder if it's Jon executing his Night's Watch brothers for murdering him? Or kinslaying if by dying he is released from his Night's Watch vows? That seems like it wouldn't really qualify with the criteria.

[@tool9386]

After making it this far in your videos, I had trouble getting through the beginning of the Caverns of Dragonglass video where History of Westeros was saying the Children of the Forest made the Others.

[@DavidLightbringer]

yeah it's a little more complex than that probably, lol

[@zhenyamugisa9423]

Do they say the children of the Forrest made the ww in the books? In the show sure , but in the books the nights king and his ice eyed goddess made were the ones who sired the whites.

[@tool9386]

@@zhenyamugisa9423 I'm referencing the Caverns of Dragonglass video by History of Westeros.

[@zhenyamugisa9423]

@@DavidLightbringer Hi just wanted to throw out my theory on as to why GRRM in broad strokes revealed the ending of his book , but the show decided to do a Dany versus Jon climax ...here is my theory with some clues through the books...My theory/ prediction In primordial time or the beginning were only two god's Rhllor and the Other.Rhllor was male and so later reflected three aspects of the 7 Father, Warrior and Smith, the Other is female reflecting 3 aspects of Mother ,Maid and Crone finally the Stranger unifies their eternal combat to the death as the personification of death. Both these god's hate each other and particularly the "sex' of the humans personifying that God.Azor Ahai is the reincarnation of Rhllor but in order to come to earth he only possesses the one who kill the most important woman in his life ,that is why the dark emperor(or was it crimson emperor did that sacrificing his love ,he was likely the first reincarnation of Azor Ahai. The female other not to be outdone chose one of the kings of the North to beguile and steal his soul so as to birth the abominations the undead white walkers. Rhllor the God of fire, under whose purview are dragons and dragonglass is the only one the Other's creations is vulnerable to. Notice the following clues Caster sacrifices his sons to be whitewalkers and there is never mention of female 'whytes' Also would explain why the private parts of eunuchs like Varys are used in black magic rituals. Now to the interesting part I feel in broad strokes GRRM did indeed give the Game of Thrones writers the ending he envisaged with Jon being Azor Ahai (the first woman he loved a red head-kissed by fire- dying repeats the lost love motif) but the woman that he will kill to banish the Other back into the darkness will not be Daenarys but his own sister Arya! The clues are as follows , not only do I think Arya is on irredeemable path serving the god of death but a child of the Forrest in Storm of Swords was scared of her prophecying that Arya has either darkness about her and will be the bane of the world in the future. Also notice Araya in all her killings despite mentioning Cersei(not that the other really cares about women) has never to my knowledge killed a woman even though she serves the many faces god ,all her victims are male.I believe when she learns shadowbinding she will be possessed by the dark goddess the other, even though now it is likely the other is guiding Euron to destroy the world.The image of a dark female shadow next to Euron in the 'Forsaken' chapter is this very being.

[@Yosya8059]

Wow, the connection between Jon’s and Sunfyre’s wounds started to convert me back to the RLJ. I was really convinced that it was not the case, since I couldn’t see anything connected with the dragons in Jon (except his sword and his burnt hand in blood when he fed the ravens). I couldn’t see Rhaegar in him, and associated Jon with Dawn and his role as a sword of the morning, and also firmly associated him with Starks, but not through the mother. I found that it would be poetic if he was truly a Stark as his father. So of course I liked the idea of N+A, or even a sadder one for me, B+A. But all this symbolism and the Sunfyre thing is mind blowing. I still don’t see Rhaegar much in him, but at least I’m more at ease now with the though and it doesn’t seem boring any more.

[@DavidLightbringer]

Right on! Well, the episode in that series is my symbolic breakdown of RLJ, so see what you think about all of that and let me know! cheers

[@archmaesteremma1883]

With Val being such an amazing NQ symbolism, does her first lover Jarl have any interesting symbolism? "He always climbed too fast" is the only think I can think of...?

[@NeverUseAnApostrophe]

You should seriously email the HBO creative team offering a half day seminar. And consulting.

[@WhiteSargent]

Morgan Little in the Battle of Deepwood Motte - is there anything to the point that his name, Morgan, is like the German “Morgen” for Morning? A little Dawn?

[@JinxxSphinxx]

On Dany and Euron: Are you familiar with and what do you think about the theory that Daario is Euron? I must admit I agree with it; even the timeline can match up nicely.

[@UAPReportingCenter]

Book narration sounds exactly like Mortis Media youtuber!!

[@smwad7103]

It almost seems George only rights one story over and over again lol

[@kimberlyporter9555]

I want to know what Val's role will be. Is she the third dragon? I wonder if Val is related to House Dayne.

[@VanHonkerton]

20:00 Stannis likes to do it? Wouldn't it be Martin?

[@DavidLightbringer]

I don't follow. The question is whether or not Stannis does anything that symbolizes the creation of the Others.

[@DavidLightbringer]

Oh ok, I understand what you were talking about. No, I meant that Stannis likes to pair flaming sword and NK symbolism, as if he has a choice in his own symbolism, ha ha.

[@VanHonkerton]

Ah okay, the later context of him also having blue eyes and such kinda threw me off since he wouldn't have choice over stuff like that

[@jorilysmatos69]

Jon is a Stark, he's blood of the first men. Wildlings are his kin too.

[@Anadilxoxo]

LmL so Azor Ahai was the Night's King and Nissa Nissa the Night's Queen? I see it...

[@baronvon4158]

Thanks to george for writing the novels haha!

[@brandonlambert9768]

A Samwell sacked Oldtown and a Samwell is going to sack the Citadel during Euron's sacking of Oldtown.

[@brandonlambert9768]

I think Euron will get will get close to achieving his goal, becoming a God, only to be possessed by the Night's King. I also think he'll end up with Viserion.

[@sanriscribbles]

*SHRIEKING* Jon and Sunfyre bffs for life.

[@DavidLightbringer]

That was a funny one, huh?

[@akeelbrown7675]

Stannis is the one true king!

[@helenakhan1796]

Woohoo!

[@thunderclap7154]

I assume you were testing us when you said “Jon will become a kin slayer when he rises again and kill his black brothers. “ He has already killed the halfhand ! Did I pass ? Jon jokingly says to Val are you stealing my wolf as you pointed out. If it were the other way round and ghost brought Val to Jon. Would that be imitating how Varmyr sixskins used his shadow cat to bring women to him ?

[@lanananans]

❣❣❣

[@2angies19]

LML THANK YOU for your acknowledgement inn Greys podcast. I knew you were knowledgeable, but that original podcast with Tony turned me OFF. I also KNEW you were cool beans because you were hanging with Grey. Said all that to say, I am now a subscriber. Looking forward to you.

[@DavidLightbringer]

Thanks for saying so, I appreciate it. Grey told me to shut up and stop apologizing but I thought it was important to acknowledge it was my bad on that one episode and acknowledge the people that spoke up about it. When I listened back it didn't sound right to me either, so.. Anyway, thanks for giving me a second chance! I am usually a nice guy, ha ha

[@krakentacos]

4537 views and 144 thumbs up...WTF is up with that?

[@DavidLightbringer]

I always forget to tell everyone to click thumbs up... I'm a bad self promoter.

[@shavedata5436]

I love this channel but I find myself having to do a lot of mental work to get around that r+l=j stuff. I don't know why that theory is so prevalent.

[@Rokiriko]

Its kind of jarring when the narrator talks Dothraki lines with a thick English accent.

[@stephenappman9529]

comment for algorithm

[@Thullin00]

R+l=J isnt true lol

[@stevenirizarry1304]

Linus this aged well

[@tylerd.9457]

N + A = J is a red herring.