Are Cadian Command Squads Secretly BROKEN?! | Astra Militarum | Warhammer 40,000

[@keyne444]

FOR CADIA! I TOLD YOU NOT TO UNDERESTIMATE CADIANS!

[@The_Nowhere_Man]

I do love that I can just refute my opponent's rules and modifiers by defiantly yelling "CADIA STANDS" at them. Feels very guard.

[@earnestbrown6524]

Yelling stuff is one of the best parts of the game. Was running my Sisters and my Exorcist got hit and wounded by 3 lascannons. Rolled my 6++ and got 3 sixes threw my hands up and yelled "THE EMPEROR PROTECTS."

[@janehrahan5116]

I like ranting in my definitely canonical emperor voice the emperor's "space marine speech" but about my custodes instead.

[@PhuzzPhactor]

The rules broke before The Guard did.

[@aaronkaplan2939]

It feels right for cadians to say "CADIA STANDS" and to continue holding an objective even as they break (battle shock). I love it.

[@slyoldowl]

I started using this you wouldn't believe the number of times the opponent calls the ref to be highly disappointed that's always CADIA STANDS

[@CastellanDamon]

Reporting in Commander! I'm so glad to see my favorite Guardsmen getting the attention they deserve. Man Cadians are fun to play against tyrranids due to this reason lol

[@StarCaptain007]

Cadia Stands!!!

[@TimothyNiederriter]

Never abandon the colors!

[@nationalsocialism3504]

The planet broke before the Guard did

[@novak419]

Cadian Sergeant Steel mentioned!

[@davidcarroll2968]

Morty has a similar ability helps death guard not to get debuffs (except saving throws) also I know it might not be a big thing for imperial guard but does stop damage reduction like c'tan halfing damage

[@eldoriath1]

Yeah, Caida command squads ignore loosing OC from battleshock for all the reasons you've pointed out. Big part for me is that they also bypass -1 damage and 1/2 damage rules as well which is needed against some opponents.

[@genericfakename4372]

Seems right in line with the fluff. 'The ground broke before the guard did'.

[@johnhildenbrand2642]

Not gonna lie, I have tried everything under the sun to catch this up, but AS WRITTEN, this is a completely correct assessment, it definitely breaks the game, and it shouldn't work as written, but until the APR/MAY slate, the guard has a broken mechanic we should wholesale abuse, because you'd best believe that we'll be paying an unnecessarily steep price for someone oversight, and considering the 9th edition codex thing, and the fact we are looking to repeat 2 editions (ballpark 6 years, for the math challenged) I see no reason to spit on it for the one opportunity we get to stick it to GW, drive it raw, drive it deep, and drive it often...the screams for mercy are nothing short of heresy, FOR THE EMPEROR!

[@gilesparkes2922]

The Commander's a new battle winning super tactic: Take flag, put on objective, Take cover. Genius, those Xenos won't know what to do. Dead Cadians: I how no idea I was this Sticky on my insides, Yeah I think we died just after we deployed when Rookie stuck his toe out of cover.

[@davidburton8156]

FOR CADIA!!!!!

[@Roblecop]

Cadian Sergeant Steel is great!

[@Storehouse-805]

I do not know, but I believe that this rule supersedes battle shock for thematic purposes.

[@SarcasticMarauder]

I lean on the side that says it ignores oc0 for battleshock. Sisters of battle "light of the emperor" has the same wording as cadia stands. And before the recent ruling for ignore modifiers. It was exclusively used to ignore battleshock oc effects. Beside ignoring oc modifier. You can ignore ap modifiers as well such as AOC.

[@michaelwool5960]

Battle shock requires a leadership test with a saving throw. So it applies as the abilty states (excluding modifers to saving throws). Same thing to your wounds.

[@robertm6762]

Cadia stands!

[@davidthomas2870]

I like running them with double plasma in chimeras, following around scout sentinels. Its not great but it is fun to be spamming out that much light armor

[@KevinPuttock1981]

Cadians with their Command Squads are pretty good into things like Death Guard, necron C’tan, chaos knights, Nids and any units with ‘haha you can’t hit/wound as well as you’d like to’ abilities

[@vincentgames2560]

Came here to politely argue how wrong you are then listened to the rest of the video and sat back down. Seems legit and actually makes sense fluff wise great video thanks for sharing.

[@dominicl5862]

I think the big mistake was taking DKoK as the irrefutable BEST crunch wise. And 20 DKoK with Marshal was the only option worth running. People only started using catachans like conscripts once they dropped the points. Lets just keep an open mind in what might actually work on the tabletop.

[@matteogarra8620]

Everything you said would be correct if battleshock were a modifier. Bc if you look at the rules, modifiers are every that changes a nummerical value to another (like you said). But battleshock has a diffrent wording. It sais "The OC of all battleshocked units models is 0". Therefore its not changed to 0 or becoming 0, it just is 0. This means raw battleshock is not a modifier and I also think this is rai b bc you gan still kindof negate battleshock with tje +1 OC flag thing from its wargear.

[@dreadlordisha]

secretly broken?....here's one for you mordian RAW officers can give orders in opponents turn by disembarking after rapid ingress!

[@Madlarkin00]

So i just changed my GT list up a bit and its looking good... need to get some practice with it

[@pcat7699]

Wait until people find out you can use regular platoon command squads to use stratagems on battle-shocked units

[@dominicl5862]

L00l

[@kirklandchappers]

So just to clarify a totally random point: It has been made explicitly clear that our regimental banner stops our OC from dropping to 0? As that is the exact same effect laid out at 8:56 for the space marines. Am I just way behind not knowing this? lol

[@jagermeister_1754]

CADIA STANDS!!!

[@pistoneteo]

CADIA STANDS!

[@repthe21st66]

I played against a Guard player yesterday that had a 20man infantry squad attached to a Command Squad that had a Bulgryn in it, and they claimed that because the Bulgryn itself is not a character, as a bodyguard he gave Toughness 6 to the whole infantry squad until he was killed. Is this true?

[@nationalsocialism3504]

Technically, sounds RAW but I'd make him be the "Bodyguard" and the first failed save(s) would be applied to him first. Can't realistically be a bodyguard while using everyone else as a meatshield instead of yourself

[@hinti24]

no. The Bodyguard is not part of thr Bodyguard unit of the combined unit.

[@hinti24]

The Ogryn uses his 'loyal protecter' rule to Join a cmd squad. He is now an organic part of the Command Squad. CMD Squad uses 'Leader' ability to join an infantry squad. they form a combined unit the Infanterie Squad is the Bodyguard unit of the combined squad. hence no

[@nationalsocialism3504]

@@hinti24 imu they all become one unit & transfer abilities including keywords across each other when joined... hence why it does seem RAW to me but that for it to work then all wounds would be bounced off through the "Bodyguard" first. So technically the unit would all receive the bonus but that it's immaterial except for Precision

[@samuelbaldwin2184]

From what I understand an ogryn bodyguard attached to a command squad makes them T6. If that command squad joins a unit then it goes back to the toughness of the unit they joined. Should the attached unit be destroyed but the command squad lives including the ogryn, they go to t6 again. In short, they were wrong.

[@grimfist_one]

I think its RAW and RAI

[@rubberuke]

I wonder how cadia stands would affect things that improve characteristics.

[@samuelmarton3931]

it says "any or all" modifiers, so you can choose to keep the good modifiers

[@mohawkmodels2665]

Would this ability negate 1/2 damage rules such as those on C’tan, or is that reducing the damage they receive by half and not half the damage characteristic of the weapon?

[@hinti24]

yes.

[@ghost9pm407]

​@@hinti24Oh damn. I was thinking about putting Hydras in my list to counter Hypercrypt monster mash shenanigans but a couple of Cadian blobs would be much better. (Hydras are underrated though).

[@skyeranger]

Yes and No. It would only ignore the damage reduction if it's damage based on a dice roll because the rule only igonres modifiers for rolls and tests made by and for the Cadians (which flat damage isn't) and weapon stats like damage are not model characteristics. So it would ignore Meltas and Krak Grenades, and even maybe the Grenade Strat, but not stuff like plasma, lasguns, powerweapons @@hinti24

[@slyoldowl]

It's a modifier cadia stands

[@Ilithandie89]

​@@skyerangerwould it not be the damage characteristic being modified?

[@Kaiserschutze]

The main problem of infantry is its fragility. It's irrelevant to ignore all the modifiers if your unit can be easily destroyed by enemy fire, even with Take cover order. What I wonder is: if infantry is so strong why isn't it in competitive lists?

[@Pas5afist]

I don't think you even need an extremely strained reading of a RAW to get the ruling that OC is included in Ignoring Modifiers. The latest rules commentary outright states that it is: "When an ability allows you to ignore modifiers to a unit’s or model’s characteristics, unless specifically stated otherwise, this allows you to ignore modifiers to the following characteristics: Move, Toughness, Save, Wounds, Leadership and OBJECTIVE CONTROL for the model(s), and Range, Attacks, Ballistic Skill, Weapon Skill, Strength, Armour Penetration and Damage for their weapons and attacks." (emphasis mine)

[@untitled528]

and then 6 aggressors shoot at the squad of 26 dudes and wipes it clean

[@strawberrypuddin8919]

So sad, so relatable

[@devonfrayne8226]

Does this affect cadians shooting at stealth units?

[@MidWanker-Minis]

Yes

[@operator9858]

Ive been looking for excuses to use my centaur and a double powerfisted command squad wouldnt be a bad option to go with. Heck i have an ogryn short bus trio arriving already and an ogryn bodyguard thrown in could really sell the theme of mechanized big boys lol

[@PeterButchens]

The rules broke before the guard did

[@LoftetProduction]

So a regular command squad regimental standart makes a unit never have less than oc 1 nice.

[@Jaybirderino]

As someone who enjoys collating and discovering rules interactions I support this! Battleshock is absolutely meant to be a modifier. Cadia Stands! Also very glad to see Cadian Shock Troops finding their niche. I was worried for a while!

[@hivefleethappiness7331]

Does "Cadia Stands" ignore -1 damage from dreadnoughts and 1/2 damage from beatsticks?

[@Mark_Batcheler]

And now I have to think about buying more cadians 🤦🏻‍♂️

[@samuelbaldwin2184]

Maybe im missing something but if your opponent can't wipe 25 guardsman over 1 turn with their whole army... You've already won cuz what are they doing.

[@janehrahan5116]

Easier said than done. Let's use an astartes bolb rifle for example. Even assuming the intercessors aren't moving. And that the guard doesn't have cover. That's still 58 shots needed. An intercessor squad has 16 + 4-14 grenade shots. It would take 3 intercessors costing 480 points to have a good shot of clearing. Most armies don't run dedicated anti light infantry as well so they will use incidental fire for this

[@samuelbaldwin2184]

@@janehrahan5116 you're forgetting the intercessors could still charge and contest with their own OC if not outright killing the guardsman. Additionally, if battle shock were a modifier the way mordian thinks then the regular command squad with banner would still give you OC1 even after battleshock. But its not a modifier so the whole discussion isnt really all that important. And even still, just take bullgryns.

[@xen3534]

I am really skeptical about your interpretation. In the rule for for Battle-Shock, they say “the OC […] is 0”, not “the OC is modified to 0”, or “the OC is changed to 0”. The OC IS 0. For me, the distinction is fundamental.

[@Rich_Cardboard]

I don’t know if this would work but would it also affect the AP characteristics since it changes the dice role?

[@pikciwok6360]

No, the rule explicitly says armour saves are an exception.

[@javilo2797]

Yes my boyo

[@sean2549]

Don't cadians have sticky objectives so even if you shoot them off an objective they still gonna own it ?

[@IvyMyki]

Doesnt the command squad rule negat your opponent's modifiers? Battle shock is your modifier

[@samuelbaldwin2184]

No its "any or all" modifiers, not modifiers caused by your opponent.

[@TheGreatCharlie123]

MORTY! I love you buddy, you make great content most of the time, if love to play a few bolt action games with you. I know its the nature of the game here on youtube so maybe completely ignore my next comment.... you gotta stop making filler clickbate videos bro its killing my interest for your channel. But hey if it works it works, you got my comment after all. Lots of love buddy

[@lydiafarmer7611]

So does this work to stop AP modifying your armour save?

[@josephnewis]

Sadly not, as the rule states it excludes modifiers to saving throws

[@lydiafarmer7611]

Thanks ​@@josephnewis

[@BloodBuffalo]

As always. Don't follow meta. All meta means is other people aren't smart enough to think up their own strategies. Love my cadians command squads.

[@dlee9726]

Canonically: Cadians are the best Guard regiment Tabletop: Cadians are also the best regiment.

[@nathanmintz8185]

No the OC is swapped not modified.

[@ryanstarr1342]

So old big BS banner on steroids?

[@TimothyNiederriter]

And now we can get 3 of them if we want

[@creed6901]

Don't wanna be a party pooper, but I am pretty sure this doesn't work. Battle shock still doesn't count as a modifier, it is just an effect that makes OC=0.

[@adamcarey6093]

The rules for modifiers specifically states a modifier is anything that changes a model or unit’s stats from one value to another and the. Uses battle-shock as an example. Cadia stands prevents that modifier.

[@adamcarey6093]

Then

[@myrmidon775]

Sorry sir, C’tan are broken. Cadian command squads are just adequately strong :D

[@timothyharnedy4495]

Is this Rules As Written shenanigans? The name of the rule is "Cadia Stands", which sounds to me as though the the rule has been named for its ability to ignore the modifier to objective control from battleshock. Sounds like Rules As Intended to me. Please now work out what is great and game-changing about the humble infantry squad and platoon command squad.

[@jimmydesouza4375]

Sorry to tell you this but the way you're interpreting battleshock as a modifier can't actually work with the rules as worded because of clause number 1. "All modifiers are cumulative". Setting something to 0 can't be done cumulatively, as the effect it has depends on where it is in the sequence of operations. So your OC being set to 0 has to be an out and out effect rather than a modifier. At least as worded (who knows how it is intended). Cumulative operations are where the previous value is changed by a set value to a new value, whereas the battleshock modifier is just changing the previous value to a set value.

[@Codybraun-sy8ww]

It's clause number 2 that proves battle-shock is not a modifier with "new value before applying any modifiers"

[@jimmydesouza4375]

@@Codybraun-sy8ww Both do, though I didn't want to look at 2 since the poster was ignoring it so I assumed there was some edge case that invalidated it.

[@nathanegnew1923]

Per the English language, a modifier changes something by a value. "Value becomes zero" is not a modifier. However, if the rules define it as described, then your interpretation is correct.

[@seymur7422]

You could even attach a krieg marshall and make that unit extra tough

[@janehrahan5116]

I love to see appreciation for CBT

[@michaelvosberg7005]

Don’t forget that with the new rules commentary that this rule also gets around reduced damage rules. Hit those Ctan with meltas 🫡