Losing Faith When Your Child’s a Mormon Missionary: Julie and Jill Durrant | Ep. 1737

Jill and Julie Durrant share their Mormon upbringing and the challenges they faced within the faith. They discuss the expectations placed on Mormon children and the milestones they must achieve to be considered successful in the community. Julie's scrupulosity and the patriarchal blessing she received add to her struggles. Jill talks about the superiority you can feel as a Mormon and the cognitive dissonance she experienced when her sister, Alli, came out as a lesbian. Jill went on a mission to find answers about her siblings, and Julie's faith crisis begins in earnest after talking with her son, Tom. They discuss the complications of navigating family dynamics and the difficulty of leaving the church. Ultimately, the Durrant family's story is one of resilience, growth, and learning to navigate the complexities of life within and outside of Mormonism.
Chapters
00:00:00 Introduction
00:04:00 Julie’s early scrupulosity, triggered by a patriarchal blessing.
00:13:00 Choosing cosmetology over college
00:16:00 Meeting Ed & other Mormon milestones
00:27:30 Daughter Jill’s experiences growing up in Mormon family
00:30:30 LDS Expectations & Superiority
00:35:30 Daughter Alli comes out as lesbian (10 years ago)
00:51:45 Super faithful son, Tom shocks family when he leaves the Church shortly after a successful mission
01:02:00 2015 as a watershed year for Mormonism
01:08:00 Jill becomes more motivated to be faithful, Jamie goes on a mission to Dallas
01:13:00 Jamie experiences tragedy and trauma on her mission.
01:23:15 Jamie’s exclusionary Temple marriage
01:29:00 Julie’s increasing worries about her children
01:34:15 Jill serves an LDS mission during COVID, Home MTC, starting mission before the Temple
01:50:00 Jill’s mission experiences, good & bad
02:14:30 Julie’s faith crisis begins in earnest, finds Latter-Gay Stories Podcast
02:34:00 Julie wonders why Alli & Tom didn’t tell her about issues but understand now why they couldn’t
02:52:00 Julie and Ed keep up appearances at Church while Jill serves
03:09:15 Jill comes home, realizes something had changed
03:14:00 Julie schedules appointment w/Stake Pres to protest assignment to study the Family Proclamation
03:18:00 Jill doubles down on religiosity, moves out of her parents home
03:35:30 Brad Wilcox talk in 2022 severely damages Jill’s testimony
03:51:30 Jill talks to her family about her faith crisis, they apologize, acceptance
03:56:00 Coming out on Facebook together w/loving reception.
04:01:00 Julie & Jill both express more happiness
04:04:50 Telling other family. Reconciliation
04:09:00 Tolerating vs. Accepting vs. Celebrating someone (at PRIDE)
04:12:00 Replacing the Proclamation on Family
ABOUT US:
Mormon Stories Podcast is the longest-running and most successful podcast in Mormonism - hosted by Dr. John Dehlin. At Mormon Stories we explore, celebrate, and challenge Mormon culture through in-depth stories told by members and former members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. We also occasionally interview scholars, authors, LDS apologists, and other professionals. Our overall mission is to: 1) Facilitate informed consent amongst LDS Church members, investigators, and non-members regarding Mormon history, doctrine, and theology, 2) Support Mormons (and members of other high-demand religions) who are experiencing a religious faith crisis, and 3) Promote healing, growth and community for those who choose to leave the LDS Church or other high demand religions.
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[@familygrows7627]

I cannot praise this mother enough. You are so very brave for following what you know to be right and I can see you love your children unconditionally. Remember to always love yourself just as much as you do others.

[@randyholloway920]

Not really. She’s sitting there speaking in that little girl voice like Michele Duggar. Lady, you are in a cult. Figure it out! Get out!

[@barbwarth8751]

Iuuuuuuuuuiuouui😮uuu😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮i😮i😮u😮iuuui😮😮😮

[@RendaJane]

@@barbwarth8751 what?

[@ellak1382]

Wow it was so clear throughout this whole interview just how much love Julie has for her children. So beautiful.

[@virrob4235]

😢😢

[@lindamartinez7006]

We all do.

[@lindamartinez7006]

Julie has no reason to leave .

[@tinagrunst]

Stay strong.

[@libbygirl08]

I am so thankful to have found this podcast. I have spent the last few weeks meeting with Mormon LDS missionaries. There has been a couple different ones along with one who has remained the same. My husband and I have been very open to listening to these gentlemen. They are super nice and I really do enjoy meeting and talking with them. We have heard of LDS before but hadn't really ever learned about their church or beliefs, so I had to start finding answers for myself because they are really pushing us to come to their church and set a baptism date. Thank you so very much for what you do because I have now been watching episodes for 2 straight days now and it has answered so many questions for me, and I now know that their church is not for me. You all are doing a wonderful job. I love listening to everyone, and will continue to watch and follow.

[@rebeccacall7348]

I am so glad you did research for yourself.

[@aneenabmuse]

That is why this podcast exists. Informed consent is EVERYTHING. Thank you for being vulnerable in sharing your experience because it is healing for others. Best of luck to you on your faith journey!

[@jaclynrichmond1049]

Crying my eyes out, I'm so proud of us as people for over coming the church's indoctrination, and sharing our stories. So much pain caused by these messages the church spreads ❤

[@storminmormn6283]

John really has a good presence about him. You can feel how easy it is for people to share their stories. Also, I loved the “You ran out the door” moment that made everybody laugh!

[@Hallahanify]

"He has a dark countenance, you can see the evil in his eyes" 😂😂😂

[@Mark_McC]

3:05:54 “That should have been reason enough for me to leave, and i’m not proud of myself that it wasn’t” may be the most heartbreaking yet honest thing I’ve ever heard on MSP. This sweet mother made me cry for a good ten minutes after she said that!! Big internet hug to you Julie!!!

[@randallsmith7885]

True that!

[@spyiispy]

Her pain is so palpable. I hope in time she'll be able to claim the forgiveness that is our big brother, Jesus Christ, for her own. Blessings to you, Julie ❤️❤️

[@Mark_McC]

@@spyiispy absolutely. It’s not even what she says really but the pain in her eyes when she says that, it just wrecks me!

[@janehartman6871]

Why is this topic considered as a problem with the church and not a problem with our culture? Sexuality in the culture is incredibly damaging to our children, grooming them from such young ages. Social media now parents our children; kids just look up stuff on the media. Families will no longer be the domestic church and all churches that preach the truth will not be around in many years. This is very sad.

[@randallsmith7885]

@@janehartman6871 it is both.

[@cherylduncan5158]

I wish every family was this kind and accepting ❤

[@rebeccacoyle5438]

For 25 years I was a member of a Bible believing Baptist church. So much of this podcast resonated with me. I have left the church community, not my faith in God, but the hypocrisy of the Baptist church community. I could no longer worship with people who have such a narrow view of the world. Thanks for sharing this story.

[@trekpac2]

I hear you. I have moved away from a lot of Christian theology as well, finding a better path for me of secular spirituality, including Buddhism, which I see as the science of peace of mind. Stoicism also has helped me quite a bit to stand up and be accountable for my own thoughts and actions. This path has helped me to navigate through life including serious mental health issues in the family.

[@RendaJane]

Church and State should have never and should not be mixed. When preachers started getting involved with a specific political party, started telling their flocks to give them money to make themselves rich, (prosperity grifters) and began telling them for whom they should vote, they stopped having time for the teachings of Jesus Christ. I grew up in a Southern Baptist church, and at 63 now, it seems the church started going strong into politics with the Reagan’s. And Nancy Reagan went to psychics and received tarot card readings. And now more churches promote Trump and cry about LGBTQ+ than Christian teachings. That leaves Jesus out completely because there’s nothing in the New Testament that mentions homosexuality. Now we have a Speaker who claims to be Moses and focuses on more on Jodi Hildebrandt type focus with his son than anything else. Just saying. I remember when being kind and helping each other was more important than attacking the most vulnerable in our community.

[@grateful2021]

This was so healing to listen to. I stopped going to church regularly when I was 15. I am now 57. I never fully stopped believing, but had so many questions about all the issues you address in your podcast. My dad used to ask me “when I was going to start living my life right” I simply replied - Dad I am honest, kind and love those in my life. I am probably living my life more “right” than many you sit with on Sundays. He was good with that. My parents were great and loving people. I am grateful they loved me no matter what. Thank you for your podcast, it has answered so many questions.

[@rheassweetshoppe]

Same here ❤

[@Starlight_Silver]

The problem is, Christians are taught that it’s not enough to be an honest, kind and loving person. They make a huge point of it. You have to be a Christian or you’ll burn in hell. And these days, they also demand that you be a Republican Trump-worshiper. I’m really glad for you that your dad is better than that.

[@nonacheek2802]

I just came across your podcasts, my grandmother was part of a pioneer family, as was her husband's. In the 1940's she stood up in the temple, her grandfather helped design, and told the congregation that they were NOT following the true religion. The fall-out was immediate, dramatic, and multi-generational. It was not until the late 1990's that anyone would talk to my mother on her father's, and it was limited. My grandmother was remarkable for a Mormon woman (she had two Master's Degrees, spoke Spanish, played the piano and Irish bagpipes.) But not one family member helped when her husband beat her, the children, and they had no food or place to live. Finally, someone rented space 8n a basement to them. We have so many family stories written down, it is truly fabulous to read them - going back to the 1830's on onward as my family was in NY, Navoo, SLC and helped found many cities in Utah at the direction of the church - even though one man asked to please be allowed to stop settling new places as " he was too old and it would surely be the death of him." He went anyway. As a non-Mormon, I have found it amazing how much history the church has hidden, lied about, or just outright changed to suit their needs. I hear the stories on here and I just cannot fathom how people can blindly believe - but I remember they do not understand the beginnings of the church and what has gone on throughout the years. The Mormon Church is awesome at hiding the truth - example is why people had to submit their geneology five generations back - it was to prove they were white and Europeans - even a tiny bit of some other blood was not acceptable - but someone recently tried to tell me the Mormon Church has never been racist - that they were being cautious because of the political climate in the 1800's. The Mormons were far from anyone else for the majority of the 1800's and ruled Utah with an iron fist - if they could break federal and every "acceptable" religious laws (polygamy), kill other settlers who entered their territory, they could have easily have accepted the negros at the time and have protected them. Anyway, keep up the great work you are doing!

[@debbieshrubb1222]

Came across this episode by accident. Food for the soul Ed and Julie helped create a wonderful family culture for them all to grow and thrive in. Loved Margis questions and insights.

[@nuloo]

This whole interview was so incredibly heartwarming, and seeing Julie cry at the end of the interview after attending her first Pride parade with her nephew and husband was such a profoundly beautiful ending.

[@boredontheweekend2731]

I just want to say…. Your podcast is NOT TOO LONG!!! I love digging into people’s stories! Keep them coming!

[@eloiseramsey9276]

Wow, a lifetime of programming ended for this young woman in 3 months. I'm so happy for you jill, figure it out for yourself and do what makes you happy.

[@MKConnecticut]

I’m CATHOLIC and I understand EVERY feeling that’s been described. You are saviors for us all

[@bugsea54]

I did not grow up religious, yet I love watching and learning about the Mormon experience. The most important negative regarding most religions is not meeting, understanding or being tolerant of others who we don't understand.

[@Lovecatholicfaith]

This two souls are the most beautiful woman’s who I have seen. They share the love and sad experiences. Definitely I was crying with them. Thanks John to share something so precious with us. They are one soul in love. ❤

[@sheryl2761]

Julie: "Just love people and accept them where they're at" Thank you, Julie.

[@matthewmitchell68]

So I left the church three years ago. My parent are hardcore TBM, I told them all the difficulties of my mission from years ago. I never enjoyed my mission that much and I wish that I had left a few months into my mission. To this day, I have very strict boundaries with my parents. We try and stay off the subject of religion. No religion, no politics, and NO relationship topics! It’s become healthier after that, they respect my individual choices and my desire to live life . I respect there decision to remain in the church.

[@bethanydee1920]

@@malkiyahu Matthew 7:2

[@michellesunshinestar]

I think the leaders were understanding when I left. I was diagnosed with a mental illness. Also, my uncle was a lawyer, and was able to notarize my exit letter. (I was a convert). It was easy for me to make the transition out, because I remembered what it was like before I joined. And I found faith in mainstream Christianity, eventually.

[@matthewmitchell68]

I am so happy for you. It’s okay that you struggle but never allow that anyone to use that against you. I’m glad you found a happier place.

[@tolowreading6807]

@@malkiyahu Wow. My God doesn't need money or a hierarchy. If your religion has a business model it's not about God, it's about human greed and desire for power. I believe in GOD, not religion.

[@randyslidesoff]

Me to.💯

[@brettpinion4233]

I pray this helps also. Evidence for Book of Mormon in ancient America- none Evidence showing Book of Mormon is a 19th century religious fiction below: No wheat, no barley, no goats, no steel found in the Americas, no metal smelting furnaces, no metal armor, no temples, no steel swords, no skeletons of these warriors, no graves, no cities (it would be impossible for a city the size of Zarahemla to leave no trace), no cattle, no chariot parts, no Nephite coins (listed in book of Alma as being used for a thousand years), no Jewish relics from supposed jews, no metal plates like Nephites supposedly had, no artifacts whatsoever, no Nephite "reformed Egyptian" writings; and no evidence the book of Mormon "prophets" ever existed. There is zero archaeological, anthropological, topological, linguistic, or DNA evidence to support the Book of Mormon. It would be impossible for highly advanced civilizations (Jaredites, Nephites) with millions of people to have vanished off the face of the earth. The whole face of the land had become covered with buildings” (Mormon 1:7) “Two million Jaredites slain” (Ether 15:2) 38 cities are catalogued in the Book of Mormon, along with iron, steel, brass, metal swords, breast-plates, shields, armor, or chariots. Yet, not one item mentioned in the Book of Mormon has ever been discovered in America. The Book of Mormon speaks of sheep, swine, goats, wheat, barley, silk, and elephants-even though they weren’t brought to America until centuries later by Europeans in post-Columbian times. Again we see that Joseph Smith was thinking about things in his current day as he was fabricating the Book of Mormon. CAN WE TRUST OUR HEARTS as to book of Mormon since there is no evidence? Maroni chapter 10:4 says: "he will manifest the truth of it unto you" But: THE BIBLE WARNS YOU about trusting your own heart. Jeremiah 17:9 "the heart is deceitful above all things". Proverbs 28:26 "He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool." Please don't be a fool. The entire belief system and premise of Mormonism is based on a false claim the Bible was corrupted and "plain and precious parts" were removed by early Christian translators sometime after the apostles had all died. This is a very dangerous claim to make against the word of God, especially since God promised us his word would never pass away and would be with us forever (Isaiah 40:8; Psalms 100:5; Matthew 16:18, 24:35; 1 Peter 1:23-25). An Objective Test of the Bible and Book of Mormon The Claim: In the Book of Mormon, the prophet Nephi has a vision the Bible was corrupted after the 12 apostles preached it and after the formation of the “great and abominable church” (1 Nephi 13:26-29). Most Mormons believe this to be the Catholic Church which was formed early in the 4th century. Nephi claims this church was founded by the Devil to lead souls to hell (1 Nephi 14:3). So let’s objectively examine both the Bible and the Book of Mormon to be fair and test if any have errors. Bible: The earliest Dead Sea Scrolls have been historically dated by three different dating techniques to as early as 350 BC. Included in this discovery was the Great Isaiah Scroll, which is the oldest known complete copy of the Book of Isaiah and is dated to approximately 200 BC. Study the dead sea scrolls which are over 2,000 years old and see if they have Joseph Smith's uncorrupted version. They should if Joseph Smith was correct and the bible had been corrupted over time but, no they do not. They are the same today as they were over 2,100 years ago with only minor spelling or punctuation differences. Joseph Smith was wrong. The bible had not been corrupted. “You are my witnesses,” declares the Lord, “and my servant whom I have chosen, that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor shall there be any after me.” (Isaiah 43:10) If Mormonism is true, then God could not make the claim that there were no gods before him, for he was just a man at one point; nor could he claim that no gods would come after him, for that is the goal of every member of the LDS church. The new testament has not been corrupted either. Take for example John 1:1 a very important verse than Smith changed to make Jesus a created being. A papyri known as the Bodmer Papyri which is almost 1900 years old of the book of John. (this papyri was written not long after the apostle John would have died and it shows joseph smith changed the book of John, not that it got corrupted later as he alleged) John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God. ΕΝ ΑΡΧΗ ΗΝ Ο ΛΟΓΟΣ ΚΑΙ Ο ΛΟΓΟΣ ΗΝ ΠΡΟΣ ΤΟΝ ΘΕΟΝ ΚΑΙ ΘΕΟΣ ΗΝ Ο ΛΟΓΟΣ I post this in love. The manuscript and archeological evidence for the bible is the greatest of anything in antiquity. I pray that you know the real Jesus, real peace, love and true salvation. "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed." Galatians 1 One is a Jesus who is not eternal and was the spirit brother of lucifer in pre-existence & a God the Farther who was once a man - an exulted man. The other is the eternal Word, the Alpha and Omega- Jesus, by whom created all things, seen and unseen. And a God the Father who says the He alone is God, nor any god before, not any god after. There is no way for the Biblical account of Jesus to arrive at the account of the Book of Mormon. Mormons have been taught that the bible was corrupted. I hope to open eyes that God is much greater than the humanoid that you have been told about. He is the creator of all creation not just this solar system. Jesus said all scripture shall not fade away but many wolves and false prophets will come and try to add to the word. It pains my heart to see mormons fall for the lie that Satan first told Adam and Eve that we can be like the most high. Genesis 3 Joseph Smith sold the same lie. Another lie, a Temple like Solomon's Temple built in America does not exist. 100% impossibility as we would have some remains and there were no Levites in the Americas to serve in the temple so it would have been against Jewish law which book of mormon says were kept. If you study the bible you know this. Mormon's own the Hill Cumorah yet they do not excavate it because they know there is nothing there from previous digs. An excavation would be a grand embarrassment and would prove the religion is a lie. It did not happen. Look at Mormon Chapter 8 the evidence for it does not exist and evidence would exist if it happened. Why did Joseph Smith condone polygamy as an ordinance from God (Doctrine and Covenants 132) when the Book of Mormon had already condemned the practice (Jacob 1:15, 2:24)? Why did Brigham Young teach that Adam is “our Father and our God” when both the Bible and the Book of Mormon (Mormon 9:12) say that Adam is a creation of God (Journal of Discourses, Apr. 9, 1852, vol.1, p.50)? If Brigham Young was a true prophet, how come one of your later prophets overturned his declaration which stated that the black man could never hold the priesthood in the LDS Church until after the resurrection of all other races (Journal of Discourses, Dec. 12, 1854, 2:142-143)?

[@mindeloman]

1:14:45. The girl who was kidnapped and murdered; her name was Zoe Hastings. I grew up in the Dallas East Stake with Zoe's parents. Zoe's grandfather was our stake president back in the early 90's. Zoe's body was actually found in a creek bed right across the street from the stake center - the church building where she spent almost all of her life and ultimately where her funeral was held. I was at the funeral. I was an usher. This was the first time as an usher at church where we actually had to usher, as there were so many non-members from the community that came to pay their respects and try to make some sort of sense out of something so senseless. I counted over 2,500 and it was standing room only. Zoe's dad Jim spoke and talked about how he had to tell Zoe's younger brothers and sisters how Zoe was never coming back home and that she was gone. I stood there in the foyer of the chapel watching a father tell this tragic story over the body of his daughter as I could look out the front windows of the church and see about where Zoe was found and all the numerous people that were going about their cool fall Saturday without a care in the.world. Walkers and cyclists going by completely removed from the devastation that was going on inside the walls of the church in that moment. I've never been to a funeral of a murder victim before and I never want to again. Mormons are pretty good about being emotionally removed from death as their doctrine and teachings is about eternal families and their deceased loved one are not lost but waiting for them on the other side. Consequently, I don't think Mormons generally grieve a death as others do.....as perhaps Mormons should. But Zoe's death and how everyone in the stake reacted, was not typical Mormon. People were shocked, appalled, confused, angry, and grieved for her and her family. A life not yet lived and snuffed out for no reason. So sad and so tragic. She was such a sweet person and her name deserved to be said and remembered.

[@daniellima2973]

Did they ever found the bastard who did it?

[@mindeloman]

@@daniellima2973 - yeah, his DNA was already in the system due to a previous rape investigation he was never tried for. They arrested him two weeks later. He was charged with capital murder which is death penalty in Texas. He was found guilty But due to one juror was a hold out on sentencing to death. She was adamant that no one can say with absolute certainty that Zoe did not voluntarily leave with him, which would not be aggravated kidnapping. Almost came to a hung jury but ultimately Zoe's family just wanted it to be over and accepted a murder one sentence of 35 to life. Doesn't seem a fitting sentence for what he did. The abduction was so random, if not for his DNA profile in the system, it would've likely been a cold case.

[@caseyjude5472]

Miguel is a bully & a troll, I’m just now noticing. I’m blocking & suggest this to anyone else.

[@crowlovescore]

thank you for sharing.

[@jonistimpson7878]

Thank you for this. I agree with everything you wrote.

[@jakenaranjo4723]

"Honor thy Mother and thy Father." One of the biggest reasons I struggle to tell my family about the struggle I am going through.

[@joannvandenberg4792]

I still can not get over that the church teaches truth and kept all this information from we the members. That is what really hurt me. The leaders dont like being called racist and bigoted, then dont act like it. I didnt realize a lot of the actions of the church.

[@barbarabentley5345]

I am in the "never mormon" group, but a woman of faith. What an awesome Mom, and I relate with my own LGBTQ child, and the others who have not followed in the faith in which they were raised. They are all precious children and keeping my door open to love them cost me my marriage. Good for you n being honest, and for a husband who listened to his wife.

[@lenahp5815]

I love this , I've never been Mormon but I have had to deconstruct my own faith , the journey is so similar except I'm decades into it . I was a teenager when the Catholic Church was brought to it's knees in Ireland and the culture of shame was turned back on the church . I have no tolerance for any religion that keeps people in line through shame ..

[@lisapeterson7242]

I wish I could get my TBM mom to listen to this! Having a gay brother who was so suicidal in the 90's before coming out. I know my mom would be able to relate to this mother. Definitely one of my favorite Mormon Stories! Thank you so much for sharing your story.

[@beingbenign2685]

I hope she watches it too. Any luck yet?

[@kristitimbrel189]

Beautiful podcast! Thank you for sharing! You're a sweet family! I'm a X Mormon, Returned Missionary Mom who sent a daughter on a mission...once she got home, she's been frustrated and angry that I walked away. I understand, but am hoping she will someday see my point of view.

[@mommommom4596]

Hello John and Margie! I’m a NeverMo and loyal listener. If I’m being honest, I didn’t enjoy Margie when I first found this KZbin channel (maybe 2 years ago?). I don’t know if I’ve evolved as a listener or Margie has grown as an interviewer, but she is now my favorite co-host. Her questions are very insightful and her compassion is heart warming. My sincere apologies for my initial judgement.

[@ashleygood4615]

This story really drives home that love can and will get you through anything.

[@aprildurrant5174]

We are so proud to have you in our family Julie, Jill and Durrants. You are all so brave and strong to navigate this. Please know our family is ALWAYS here for you. Much love, April

[@Maryfs1]

This was intense. It makes me wish I wasn't the only one in my family to have left, I've felt very alone.

[@TheTriviaTrain4869]

sending love❤❤❤

[@dobnerk]

Don't give up on them. Send them the SEC letter maybe?

[@Maryfs1]

@@dobnerk I already tried showing them the problem with tscc. It left us with them more entrenched than ever and me suicidal.

[@dobnerk]

@@Maryfs1 I'm so sorry to hear that and I empathize with you. I've had disconnection in my family, as well, and completely understand the sense of loneliness that comes from that loss. I'm hoping and praying you find people in your life who can fill that gap to some degree. This is why I'm almost obsessed with studying cults and high demand organizations. It's a huge issue that's not getting the attention it deserves. I wish you well!

[@rebeccacall7348]

I think they can learn something from you just living your life authentically, or at least that's what I hope for myself and my family. I just wish they could see the truth about this cult that has been hurting our family for generations and continues to do so.

[@helenalundqvist]

Not religious. Live in Sweden. Just believing in God. Been following your podcast for some years now. Totally fascinating. This one feels special. I've cried and cried.

[@celestemccracken2651]

Thank you so much Julie and Jill for sharing your beautiful story ❤❤

[@herminiavillegas479]

Thank you for this story. I am an ex mormon and wrote an article to keep young people for being deceived into joining the church. Thank you again.😢

[@maemae1752]

This Mother’s love and respect for her children has been reciprocated by her entire family. When you love without limits or boundaries what else would you get in return but the same. Kudos

[@MonibooFinebean]

I admire and respect this wonderful mother .

[@veronicamejia6918]

I am so happy for this family. Love God and Jesus and have faith and that it. I am ex Mormon and love it.

[@luv2charlie]

I'm Exmo and you don't need to keep the delusions of an invisible man in the sky and supposed half mortal man who came from a supposed "virgin" birth! Origins of purity culture stem from the paternal religions if the past couple of thousand years. Please allow yourself the space to question all religious beliefs through logic.❤

[@jq_pilot]

I’ve listened to dozens if not hundreds of episodes and this one touched me the most. Loved it. Thank you for this.

[@caseyjude5472]

Thank you Jill & Judy for coming on & sharing your story & family with us. I love how you recognize the immense amount of grace your gay daughter has for her family. She’s really amazing. You are all amazing. ❤️

[@madeleinesutherland1623]

Wow what a lovely interview! This is one of those Mormon Stories where love and solidarity are so front and center. It was neat to see how this family came together and supported each other in new ways during each chapter. Definitely one I'll send to my family members if and when they have faith crises. Thank you Julie and Jill!!

[@Moonfasination]

The interview has been so helpful! Please let these beautiful ladies know how much they have helped. My son is on his mission right now, and I wasn’t able to tell him before he left. I wanted to support him. It feels like I will be a disappointment to him. But I want to be honest when he gets back. I do wonder if he doesn’t already know to a certain degree. Anyway, until then I won’t worry about it till he’s back. Who knows what the right thing is to do. Thank you for this interview.

[@margenn3889]

​@Miguel Angel Tinoco Rodriguez, you are wrong! He is her son, and she is his mother. Any religion that separates a family is no religion !

[@markkrispin6944]

@@malkiyahu Be a good boy and keep quiet.

[@ExploreXplore394]

So nice you may appreciate their story profoundlly.

[@anonymousone9699]

I hope love and solidarity of family love rises above all things up to and including religion. The hypocrisy of a corporation that “serves God” to separate families not because there is abuse or crimes happening but because they chose a different path is heart shattering for all believers. You’ve got this!

[@harvestandhome]

I left the Mormon church mentally after visiting my sister at BYU, attending a gospel doctrines class with her and learning the very thing Jill mentioned - a professor stated very plainly how you will not reach the celestial kingdom and you’ll live an eternity outside of Gods presence and without the ability to see the rest of your family if you do not get married in the temple. I will never forget the moment, as a 16 year old, sitting in that class next to my precious sister. It felt like a physical blow to the chest, and a deep feeling that THIS is not true. I remember looking around in shock, I’d never heard this said before. Nobody else seemed as upset or affected by this. I went home and my relationship with the church was never the same. Finally, at 30 years old I am happy. Only in the last few years have I really started the hard work of undoing the messaging and damaging beliefs I was raised in. I feel good about my healing, about who I am, about my spirituality. I may be an eternal disappointment to my family, but I’m happier than I have ever been. It’s inspiring to listen to these videos and see how, for some, their love for their children surpasses any religious organization.

[@cararichardson4123]

One of the most inspiring stories I've heard. My sincerest congratulations that you could overcome so much.

[@gladdheart3030]

Non mormon here. Love this heartfelt interview and love that Fitzgerald quote!

[@goingbananas581]

This is sooo close to my own story. We left a year ago. Lost our faith 2 months before our oldest daughter came home from mission. I was the Primary President and 42 at the time. These are wonderful women and I'm so glad to hear other families that have made it through this.. it is not easy. We live in Orem and it is a lot better now, but I still feel like an outsider and like I've lost most of my friends.

[@Ralph-cc9xy]

Real friends don't leave you.

[@ExploreXplore394]

Yea, I can understand where you are coming from. When leaving the church. I think at times it can be like a grieving process for instance leaving your friends behind.

[@duststorm2699]

You lost faith in LDS, but did you repent of being a sinner and ask the true Lord Jesus Christ to save you to the uttermost??? If not, you are not going to heaven. Bad news and good news.

[@lindamartinez7006]

@@duststorm2699 your comment seems to condemn you . Who are you to judge anyone ? Oh ya you are nobody . But then how you judge others is how you will be judged so guess you will be seen in hell yourself lol.

[@gingerpaxman9286]

Going bananas… I grew up in the Mormon culture….my world revolved around it….when I left I had no friends…I was so sad…. My heart was broken

[@Courtneey428]

I have watched so many episodes of Mormon Stories and this is by far my favorite. Julie and Jill seem like some of the sweetest people put on this earth, the amount of love within that family truly gives me so much hope for the rest of the world. Absolutely beautiful story.

[@janellbeach8616]

Both of these women talked about their constant desire, their need to be "good". Be a good kid, be a good wife, be a good missionary, a good member of the church. What strikes me is the love, patience and grace this family has given each other through this very difficult process. The measurement for the definition of "good" for them was determined by the church before. But obviously, they were already "good," or they wouldn't have come through this trial as well as they did. The love for each other existed before their faith chrisises, saw them through that difficult and trauamtic time, and really shines through with where they are at right now.

[@esmith8676]

Oh wow these are two very special ladies. This interview hit different. I can feel their love.

[@Zeett09]

Ex Catholic here. I left when I was a teenager. Now a 50 year agnostic. I married an ex Mormon. She too left as a teen and became agnostic. All of our kids, all of our grandkids are free of religion. Our lives are so much simpler and authentic.

[@Considerable_Ounce]

Its sad when the corruption of man alienates people from our Creator. Will pray for yall.

[@madisonrose1576]

My parents were traumatized by Catholicism so I didn’t have to be 😅 my husband is ex Mormon. Our kids are toddlers but they will be free too.

[@madisonrose1576]

@@Considerable_Ounce Do you know that agnostic doesn’t mean atheist?

[@fbakerwitz]

Free of religion - AWESOME!! Closer to God/Yahweh - I sure hope so. Religion is man-made and most, if not all of them, are filled with false doctrine.

[@Considerable_Ounce]

@@madisonrose1576 agnostic is believing that there might be a God. A "maybe" isnt a relationship.

[@braedengates3123]

Beautiful story. I cried a few times listening to their stories. Thank you for coming on and sharing your story.

[@kaykeiffer3944]

Omgosh, this hits home, very similar story in our family. We left 10 years ago, our oldest has struggled with homosexuality too because of the brain washing she’s had since birth, she’s now 34 yrs . We could not would not choose a church over our beautiful Daughter. We have never looked back with any regrets for leaving. God bless you ladies for letting your story be heard to others whom my be struggling with their faith… I ❤ Mormon Stories!

[@ExploreXplore394]

❤

[@lindamartinez7006]

You do not have to choose the church of your child?? If you do then that is on you no one else or the church . That is on you . Many members have. Gay children . So what . They do big disown them . dTodd Christopher brother is gay . They still love and include him .

[@ExploreXplore394]

@@lindamartinez7006 I think the bigger question Linda is where does the LGBTQ community or members fit in with the church. Do they feel like they belong or accepted.

[@lindamartinez7006]

@@ExploreXplore394 if your child is gay so what Doctrine is not changing . But yes they are still loved . This lady does not understand how many members have this exact same heartache with their children . They do not cut their children off or the church . God makes his own ways . His own plans of salvation and exaltation which I feel is a perfect just plan . All will be happy in the end and comfortable to what degree they want and enjoy . I have children with some of these Beth same problems . So do many many people . Levi’s sons tired to kill him even and never believed their prophet father . So what . They also tried to kill their own brother also a prophet . This lady says she lived so righteously and was promised perfect children . That is a lie . She needs to study up on prophets themselves families . Jacob had mostly bad sons except for two . How does that make the church wrong . Many missionaries come home and leave . Elder David Bednar talks on that and gives the reason why . She also should go study the sower parable and the different kinds of ground and how they reacted to the seeds . Meaning same messages but all had different hearts . All receive a way better portion then here still . Maybe some do not understand that parable .

[@kellymortensen5366]

This is such a great family. This interview was just incredible. I’d like to add the remaining family members to the discussion. This was a long interview… nearly 4 hours.. and still it wasn’t long enough.

[@parkviewmo]

These two opened my heart and there is just love pouring out!

[@susanwilliams70]

Not becoming "a robot" & taking care of yourself is so very important on a Mormon mission! I know I was getting quite burnt out near the end of my mission with my companion who was pushy with "following the rules."

[@markkrispin6944]

So Susan, are you still a "robot" and "slave" to the Mormon Cult Church or not today??

[@4Smitty1]

Will be a good one. We left as well as our son was 6 months into his 2 yr mission. Super painful for us as his mission pres said not to talk to us about our decision and why. Brutal. So he obeyed.

[@scottbrandon6244]

That's part of the social bubble members live in, TBMs or not. It is easier to follow the path than use rational thinking.

[@joshharrison1160]

You mentioned that Brad Wilcox was instrumental in pushing you out of the Church. I'd like to point out that the Brethren evidently decided that he is still in good standing after his famous talk. Wilcox was invited to offer a prayer in one of the sessions of the last General Conference. So there you have it. The Church had an opportunity to essentially say that Wilcox does not represent the kind of messaging we want to convey. Instead, they put him out there in the highest profile venue possibly. Noted.

[@goingbananas581]

100%

[@LucyLu-wj3vn]

Brad Wilcox was in my ward when he was a teenager. He was very talented and a positive natural leader. I have watched him grow spiritually as an adult. I still highly admire him. He has a great, righteous spirit.

[@joshharrison1160]

@@LucyLu-wj3vn To me the video of his fireside speaks for itself. No rumors or inuendo about BW necessary when you have the video.

[@julieneria9834]

What an amazing story! I agree with you John. I think this is one of the best stories I’ve heard thus far. I’m an ex-Mormon, and my parents were converts, but they never quit smoking nor drinking coffee and tea. They were what they call Jack-Mormons in CA. They pretty much used the church when they were in need (mom’s mental illness and dad got cancer), so they didn’t have any deep roots in the church. I was a hit and miss Mormon but easily walked away when I was told to break up with my Catholic boyfriend (now my husband). I just can’t imagine being Julie and all she and her family went through. I just hope they remain happy and healthy. God bless them!

[@m3llo.y3llow56]

Go Mom! I’m so moved by their story and wish for this outcome for all! I’ve opened up to my mom about my lost of faith and she cried her eyes out. It was the most painful look she gave me and it sucks that there will always be that barrier. But I’m just blown by the mother’s unconditional love, as it should be 😊

[@delight743]

That title explains exactly what happened to me on my mission with my parents

[@Revbone450]

Did you stay out or go home?

[@thelastgoonie6555]

My title would be this: When your child's a mormon missionary and you don't tell him his grandmother died until a year later when he gets home.

[@adrichats]

​@@thelastgoonie6555wow.

[@delight743]

@@Revbone450 I completed my entire 18-month mission. I found out about my parents leaving a year into the mission. That was almost 2 years ago when I found out about my parents leaving.

[@Revbone450]

@@delight743 Have you now left too?

[@amysuechristiansen1078]

Started loosing my testimony when my daughter was on her mission and I was called to teach early morning seminary in Texas.

[@scottbrandon6244]

I feel your pain. Teaching seminary tests anyone's faith.

[@markkrispin6944]

@@malkiyahu Scott is smarter than you are.

[@rinatoketa1045]

So much love for this family! Tom…please run for President. ❤

[@dobnerk]

This is definitely my favorite interview so far. Thanks to Julie and Jill for sharing their story completely, without fear. It's hard to articulate what a high demand church/organization doe to people. The amazing thing is that their testimony about their journey was so weighty not because of how horrible their Mormon experience was as much as their happiness, joy and freedom from having left the church. Thanks to everyone for making this sharing experience happen.

[@tailee123]

Such a beautiful episode of very real human experiences. I appreciate these so much and have found a lot of comfort in hearing from others who have walked through this journey. It has helped me to know I’m not alone. One thing that stood out to me here is that they worked to not let the church stand between them and their closest loved ones. I’ve seen so many damaged relationships in the name of the church and instead of bringing families closer, it has driven a wedge.

[@kerstinklenovsky239]

I wish this family every happiness. They are wonderful.

[@beckyburnett2246]

This was such a beautiful episode. You can feel the love the family has for each other is above the rhetoric of the church. I am so glad that Julie was able to read and see the truth without the lense of the church and that the family is at peace.

[@karintelles5802]

Love Julie’s heart and her daughter Jill is so precious. What an awesome story.

[@schmoozen]

Really loved this episode. So relatable in every way, especially when Julie described her guilt for not leaving the church sooner when she realized it was harming her LGBT daughter and how it still took several more years; this was also my experience and I live with that guilt, too. Would also love more stories about navigating relationships with adult TBM children.

[@eliwarner8888]

Thank you Julie and Jill for sharing your story. We are so happy for your family! My wife and I loved this interview and feel the same happiness after leaving the church. This was one of the best episodes yet!

[@xmomartha]

One of my favorite stories! You both are amazing women! Thank you for sharing the quote by Scott Fitzgerald. I will be framing that quote in my home ❤️ So Proudly Powerful!

[@susetteschmidt8469]

What a GREAT mom you are! Love & acceptance! Wow!

[@RebeccaRaven]

Such a heartfelt episode...I cried the whole time.

[@T_WC123]

What incredible women. Grateful they shared their story and so happy for them! ❤

[@marthaaliceallen8711]

These are wonderful people!!!

[@patriciabaatsen6122]

I still have tears this was an amazing story I am in the same place that Julie was in She gives me strength to find my way

[@brentwooden7995]

I am an X-Mormon, I serve a mission, my daughter served as missionary in Spain. I had a lot questions and was told I shouldn't question anything about the Church. I know that is wrong wrong

[@markkrispin6944]

@@malkiyahu It is called "common sense", Miguel. There is no need for Brent to pray/enquire about it because God give us a BRAIN TO USE instead of praying/enquire to a Mormon God who is racists! Brent used his BRAIN to determine what is right and wrong...DUHHH!

[@wendyolson7110]

That was a very engging story. I popped it on and worked my night around listening to it. Really good story, a lesson in love and acceptance. Five stars.

[@mormonstories]

Thanks for listening

[@angelacollins1343]

What a great interview! Thank you to Julie and Jill for sharing your story.

[@23cottaw13]

Julie Durrant! My great, great, great grandpa was George D Watt, as well! We are relatives. 💗 I resigned last year. I’d like to think he’d be proud of us since he died an ex-communicated member.

[@perezfam-gs5hw]

One of the most beautiful Mormon Stories episodes I’ve watched. Thanks for sharing!

[@tinaquinones6969]

❤It is one of the best!

[@jc72outdoors]

Exactly what happened to my wife and I. 2015 I was losing my faith while my oldest daughter was preparing to serve a mission. I had resigned from my calling in the bishopric and was falling deep down the rabbit hole of history. My wife was still hanging on until our daughter left for her mission. All these years later and it is still a sensitive subject with our daughter. We formally resigned in 2017.

[@duststorm2699]

But did you find the truth in your Bible? Just leaving something is not enough. You don't seem to have the true joy of being a born again Christian. Have you replaced the false teaching with sound doctrine? Thanks

[@braddayton]

I could relate to this episode more than any other that I've listened to. Thank you for your honesty and spirit! Loved every minute of your heartfelt and honest story.

[@54pasa]

Amazing story! Thanks for sharing! ALL WE NEED IS LOVE!

[@robertgrey8648]

Wow, excellent podcast!!! Thank you Julie and Jill for sharing your marvellous example of unconditional love!

[@brittaneyberbert292]

When Margi mentioned depression for moms because they carry the weight, that is true. I did everything the church asked. I certainly was not perfect. Our boys fought church since they were young. To the point that some of them were completely different people when they were at church. This has definitely put my mental health in a place it has never been in. Because I feel like it is all my fault, and I have failed as a mom.

[@duststorm2699]

You were a good mother. Their choices are no longer your responsibility. You do need to trust the true Jesus of the Bible, who is much different from the Mormon Jesus. Read the books of John and Romans in your King James Bible.

[@lauraa7387]

Fantastic interview! Moved me to tears multiple times. ❤

[@julieprince5538]

This is the most beautiful story of love and family ❤ while I was listening, the religion fell away and the story of what a I believe is True family touched my heart in a way that opened my heart more . Thank you All for such an inspiring example for us all. I stumbled upon this channel by “accident “ and I look forward to exploring further. I have lived in Utah my whole life and was raised Mormon until I was 10 53 years ago and when my family left the church back then, lots of my friends couldn’t play with me etc. I have held resentment towards the church my whole life and working on forgiveness for all. Much Love

[@scottjones9752]

Thank you, Julie and Jill. And Margi and John for the most tender and impactful of podcasts episodes. There is no way to recap all of the meaningful insights from this interview. What a guide for the ups and downs of parenting and families. It is not easy. My heart is full for the happiness and hope that I feel for a wonderful family. And thanks Julie for being a Young Women leader who meant a lot to my daughters.

[@83jenkat]

This was such a great episode, thanks to all.

[@deninejackson2316]

I love this Mormon story. What a great mother and daughter. I can see the love in both of them

[@ishtargirl1]

What a truly amazing story, shared with such authenticity ... my heart is touched deeply. Sending much love from Australia.

[@fabidepaulo]

I seriously cried 99% of this interview! Sending love to you all! Thanks for being so open and sincere with all of us.

[@tawnyachristensen7310]

Wonderful interview! Thank you MS for introducing us to these amazing women. This one was very meaningful for me, so many families feel the need to choose between a gay child and their religion. It should not be so! The choice was obvious for me, but it is a painful process. I will not support an institution that finances opposition of my own children's marriage choices. Having ancient leadership is at the crux of it.

[@markkrispin6944]

@@malkiyahu When it comes to losing your faith in the Mormon Cult Church, it is always amazing because one has broken the brainwashing of the Mormon Cult Religion. That is something you can't say about yourself there Miguel, huh???

[@tammyward349]

I have never heard a mormon story that I related with so much. Thank you to all of you for sharing this. I feel your hearts so much. My daughter was on a mission when I left too. I read the CES letter. Holland's talk was it for me. I took down all my pictures all around my house that day, sold them and donated to proceeds to Latter Gay Stories.

[@ExploreXplore394]

Good for you! We are not alone.

[@marlenemeyer9841]

Excellent interview!!! I hope you make a short of the part where Jill tells about her brother Tom explaining that the church worked for him and gave him many opportunities as a white, heterosexual male but he decided it wasn’t right to continue benefitting from his place of privilege when others were being hurt by being excluded. It was a powerful, gut punch moment in the interview!

[@spyiispy]

Marine, I thought the same thing.

[@nicolasbonilla44]

How many kids go on missions thinking "I don't want to do this, but I don't want to disappoint my parents."? And how many parents send their kids on missions thinking, "I don''t want my kid to go, but I don't want to disappoint them."?

[@craigesbeck8758]

Loved this! Thanks Julie and Jill.

[@scottbrandon6244]

I always wondered how members could not know Joseph Smith was a polygamist. I knew before I joined the church, but had a picture a lot different from what the church admits today. I had no idea about 33 wives or that the youngest was 14 (excuse me, a few months shy of her 15th birthday), or that polyandry was also practiced. Part of the problem with members is leaders and parents have told me them for decades to never read, watch or listen to anything "anti". The problem is anything perceived to be against the reality members grew up with is ignored. Members then continue to live in a bubble and never fully see their true church history. I find it ironic that the gospel topics essays that were supposed to answer member questions about difficult topics has lead to so many people leaving.

[@cindywoodbury385]

I find it ironic how so many people who've left the Mormon church can't leave the Mormon church alone.

[@scottbrandon6244]

@@cindywoodbury385 True. I find it may be due to the culture attached to the church. if family, friends and co-workers are still in, it is hard to fully leave. Utah would be an example where in some cities there are chapels every few blocks. There are universities tied to the church and public figures are members. People like Dehlin make a decent living on the LDS or ex-mormon industry. Others find it a traumatic experience. This was not so much the church but individual members that made things difficult. Greg Matsen of Cwic Media said it may more indicative of a culture where individual narratives are valued along with group identity. The Ex-Mo community is just one example.

[@tbd849]

@@cindywoodbury385 I think it would be ironic for ex-Mormons to stop talking about their church experience because that is the opposite of what you would expect. People need time to process their emotions, if it takes a lifetime that is ok. People are entitled to examine and share significant aspects of their life. Cultural heritage is part of a person's lived experience, even if they have processed the emotional trauma it's still their right to share their stories. Humans share their stories it's natural and to be expected. An ex-Mormon sharing their stories does not mean they can't leave the church alone, it is in most cases an unrelated action.

[@Zelph_undying]

​@@cindywoodbury385 You could just say you lack empathy. "I just can't understand why people can't just walk away from everything they were taught for their entire life, a place where they still have friends and family.”

[@Zelph_undying]

​@@malkiyahu That's a pretty gross sentiment. "I don't care about my wife and kids, they're replaceable.” Que feo.

[@snailflowers]

i see a lot of my mom in julie. i can tell how much she loves each and every one of her kids and how special they are to her. it’s so beautiful to see how unconditional that love was even when she was practicing, just that her kids felt comfortable telling her at all that they were leaving the church or questioning their faith. you can tell she was truly meant to be a mom, because she will be there for her kids no matter what.

[@mayflowergal6794]

I wish I could give y'all a giant group hug!!! You too Margi & John!

[@Lizzycar92]

Julie- I relate to so much of your journey. I’ve experienced my own mid-life awakening and it’s been awesome! Thank you for sharing❤