Is Mormon Feminism Dead? w/ Katie Ludlow Rich and Heather Sundahl | Ep. 1973

[@matthewlake1910]

I didn’t know about these two women prior to this INCREDIBLE episode! So much Mormon feminist history I didn’t know about.

[@jlarchigirl]

This episode was so healing for me. Ex-Mormon woman here who got a masters degree in architecture and was hired by an architectural firm because they needed an endowed woman to be able to go into the temple for the architectural work we were doing...only reason I was hired lol. Its been an odd life for me and I have since left the church mostly over feminist issues. My favorite thing to do while in the church was they would call me to take meals and I would say "oh you need to call my husband he handles all the domestic responsibilities in our house" lol. I couldn't take bishops and stake presidents telling me my life journey was wrong and I should be at home so I left

[@abbyeh1]

Keep interviewing more women about Mormon women's history. Exponent II is such an incredible organization. ❤

[@nadinehansen9241]

Great show! Exponent II was an important part of my early Mormon feminism in the late 70s and early 80s, along with Mormons for ERA. Katie, I can relate to your feelings before your first publication. I recall that after Dialogue accepted my Women and Priesthood article in about 1979, I woke up in the middle of the night with this feeling of existential terror thinking, "I CAN'T DO THIS!" Fortunately, I was in the Bay Area and my Stake President (who was in my ward) had been at Stanford with Eugene England and others when Dialogue started. I'm no longer in the church, but I wish for it to be a healthier place for everyone involved. I think it cannot be that place as long as its core is so deeply entrenched in patriarchy. Thank you for the update.

[@mormonstories]

Love you @nadinehansen9241

[@jlcl96]

Thank you for this excellent episode. These ladies did an excellent job summarizing the history of the Exponent ii magazine. I’ve contributed on the blog and subscribed to the magazine for three years. I was shocked at the end when John said he hadn’t heard of them or much at all about Mormon feminism in the last several years. I think it must just be off his radar because there is a vibrant feminist community online with Instagram accounts and podcasts. My sister in Maryland loves participating in her local Mormon feminist group. The ladies from At Last She Said it come to mind as recent voices. I’ve stepped away from the church, but I so appreciated finding like-minded women as I struggled along in my faith journey inside such a patriarchal church.

[@jenniferanderson4201]

Absolutely brilliant women, such a fantastic episode! Thank you❤

[@Maxine-nh7oz]

Loved this episode so much, great questions from John that engage crucial tensions I think are vital to notice and address, met by fabulous, insightful, wise, balanced answers from Heather and Katie, who fully "get" the feminist power of EXII and all the Mormon feminisms and have produced a major work of feminist history. Mormon feminism is huge today, massively bigger than it was in the 70s, 80s, 90s, via far larger numbers, expansive scope, types of feminism, and diverse voices, that don't always use the word "feminist" but use a variety of words to describe the work of women's and feminine genders' self definition and empowerment. Women look for, find, and participate in all the feminist forums online, which are numerous and rich, esp. podcasts. Many men don't notice women's spaces and voices, historically.

[@BoromirTolkien]

Thanks for doing this episode. We need more of this. As my wife was going through her search for the feminine divine, there just were not easy to find resources.

[@mormonstories]

I hope it helps!!!

[@laurareeves8682]

What a fantastic, informative episode. Heather & Katie are phenomenal guests. I learned so much. Thank you!

[@judytyler1870]

Phyllis Schafley was from St. Louis. In the early 70's, I was invited to a private home in TX to hear her speak along with several other women. She spoke on the subjects mentioned in this podcast. I remember that when she said women should stay home to be wives and mothers, I asked her why she left her husband and family to travel the country to tell us that men and women would have to share a bathroom if the ERA passed. Then I left the meeting. I was appaled at her efforts to keep women from succeeding as anything other than a wife and mother.

[@jauntydamemusic]

Wow, good for you!

[@LauraOttawa]

This was an enjoyable history lesson!

[@moanahopkins713]

Fantastic episode! I've never heard of any this. My mother is very old-fashioned and won't listen to anything other than the mainstream dogma. I'm so enthused for this information.

[@TheSaintelias]

Judging by my four daughters modern Mormon feminists demonstrate their views by simply leaving the church. They don’t have to put up with the patriarchy bullshit. Especially if they know anything of church history.

[@Gorffage]

Loved this episode

[@igetfitwithjen507]

Thanks!

[@SuperRhst]

Thanks for the episode! Exponent II early bloggers helped me navigate dating/marrying a non-LDS man in 2007 when I was devout. Not sure I would have married my husband without them... thanks Deborah, Caroline, Jana, Emily!

[@haroldwhite5761]

Why won't the church release the rest of marriage records from polygamy from their archives now that it's decriminalized? There's a big gap in my genealogy where second, third and fourth wives go. Matrilineal lines erased, a lot of lies on FamilySearch.

[@Vetionarian]

All of the most incredible women I know were women in the church who weren't afraid to have a voice and respectfully and patiently question misogamy while also supporting and sustaining men. Feminism doesn't have to beat down men in order to build up women. Building up women and their rights can absolutely be accomplished without pitting the sexes against each other.

[@jauntydamemusic]

How many of us want to "respectfully and patiently question" systems that can absolutely ruin our lives? Does being "ladylike" make women more likely to be heard and not abused? I know you mean well, but it's frustrating.

If you have audible, Ulrich’s Pulitzer Prize winning book, A Midwife’s Tale, is available as a free download.

[@townsendv58]

Thank you very much. This is truly fascinating. As i was active in the 1980s and early 1990s. I wonder if this would have made any difference to me staying or leaving the LDS organisation.

[@Autumn1988]

46:05 I feel In the uk you could say the same about womens groups in churches, or the rural womens social group. If you want a crack team of people to organise an event you don’t want a load of know it all men, you want a lot of women who society doesn’t deem “smart” or “capable” because they’re “just housewives” and watch them organise. Even now, it’s women of all ages in churches or groups like this that can organise brilliantly

[@elliewinslow2217]

The book, "From Housewife to Heretic" by Sonia Johnson details this ERA battle she broke her shelf over and lots of feminism, coming into her own, recognizing the double standard and lots more. No longer in print but amazing.

[@jauntydamemusic]

That book helped me so much!

[@elliewinslow2217]

@@jauntydamemusic It showed me a ton of stuff that was sooo wrong, that I didn't even know it was not only not ok, but not normal. An education. I recently reread it (about 40 years after the first time. Even at this late date, more eye openers!

[@redsox19521]

The title of that book piqued my interest. I had never really had any knowledge of the Mormon Church at the time. She was truly a pioneer and a feminist who was so courageous to challenge the patriarchy.

[@oritigra]

isn't that ironic that feminist media was unable to fairly pay their editors? I bet many men in this space would and was quitting the job on the side if it wasn't compensated, while women continued to do their work quietly and demurely. maybe that allowed this media to survive but what a shame it had to conform even inside itself.

[@bugsea54]

Kind of off topic, but when i heard Brian Thompson was from Utah, i had to google to see if he was Mormon. Yes he was Mormon. I would love to hear about him on the next show!!

[@mormonstories]

Please share evidence of this @bugsea54

[@sanachristian4577]

Emmeline B. Wells was my 4th cousin on my mom’s side!

[@unclebart100]

I'm confused. I'm going through a faith crisis, but my wife is not. My WIFE has been published in Exponent II. What?!?

[@TheSaintelias]

Great content. This episode along with “second class saints” so shows the complete lack of inspiration and godly guidance of the “brethren”.

[@Fuchiboca]

@Maven I meant to tag you on the 2 previous comments!

[@cindihunter9119]

Love Maven! Truly a beautiful soul! 😎🎻♥️

[@aaronhawkins1541]

❤❤❤

[@Fuchiboca]

@99 Blackbirds I definitely will!

[@bugsea54]

I think its typical for the men to exploit the vulnerable for profits, then the women volunteering to help the exploited and vulnerable.

[@Fuchiboca]

Admins: I submitted an application to be on the show but can't attach a long enough video. Can you advise what I need to do? Thank you 🙏

[@Latter-dailyDigest]

come on other shows to get experience and exposure!

[@Fuchiboca]

@Latter-dailyDigest such as??

[@TheSaintelias]

Oops. Studying actual church history will end anyone’s illusions of the church

[@ronalddimond3752]

I just have to say. It’s a CULT.

I didn’t either. Some interesting info. I don’t understand the pro ERA stance. I knew Phyllis S and worked a little with her. She was a terrific lady. She really helped me to step forward and find my voice.

[@danblackwelder5261]

No, Emma rules.

[@kendarcie6613]

@MormonStoriesPodcast You should focus on the dangers of secular humanism

[@Catie_Joy]

What, specifically, are the dangers you speak of?

[@sparks480v3]

Reality?

[@kendarcie6613]

@@Catie_Joy It is one thing to show the valid historical lies of moronism. But when you then use the absurdity of the LDS to deny the existence of God, then you have become a negative force yourself.

[@greg-op2jh]

​@@kendarcie6613 Thats your opinion. I dont know whether a god exists or not..but i sure as hell have tried to get him to show up. 18 years everyday. But i guess you are super spcialo

[@amazinmaven]

@kendarcie6613 I have wonderful news! It turns out that secular humanism isn't dangerous at all and is actually a much better basis for a less harmful society! We just did an episode with researchers who go over this in detail here: kzbin.infoC2vk9AwATM0 It's a much better alternative to the harmful fascist ideology of Christian Nationalism (Nat-C's). Wouldn't it be terrible to support something like that ignorantly thinking it was pro-family and pro-democracy while actually being the opposite? I'm so excited for you to learn from reliable data. Good luck