Morrissey & Marr on Joy Division

[@shucksful]

Now, I understand why MORRISSEY never left the house....because he didn’t wanna get his arse kicked! Lol.

[@jupitermoongauge4055]

Yeah, that would have been especially painful as Morrisey spent most of his time up his own arse

[@theboywithathorninhisside.4179]

Yet Marrs face at the End Cut off. I'm sure he wanted to at least Slap Morrissey. Look. His Own Ego gets far too much of is own personality sometimes.. As a Morrissey fan. HE can be a Twat. No wonder he left. TWU

[@coralbay00]

He was known to be too outspoken.....rude imo. Plus, I don't rate his gormless mug or his music.....if you can call it that 😏

[@ukelicious123]

@@coralbay00 then why are you here?

[@coralbay00]

@@ukelicious123 joy division. Is that ok 🤷‍♂️

[@stevekohut9888]

Marr's face when Morrissey says the Doors never had any hits!! 😂😂

[@willsioux]

I suspect he was talking about the UK .. They weren't very popular here until after Jim died .. couple of minor hits ..

[@RS-pp7ng]

I know right ahaha, such a laugh

[@RS-pp7ng]

@@willsioux yeah it may be the case. I became a Doors fan in 2003 when I was 17, in Portugal - what do I know about their popularity in the UK in 1969 ? :)

[@thewhoman3182]

He was like. Say that one more time...

[@judemay2849]

Yeah I love that 😂😂they had a number one in America with light my fire lol 😂and had a couple of top 10’s and top 40’s , I love the smiths a lot I think they are brilliant one of the best bands ever but morrissey really needs to stop chatting out of his arse 😂marr’s face the lol😂

[@boosh90]

even marr's eyebrow's couldn't agree with that last bit

[@spraynardkruger9903]

HAHA yess!

[@satwadude3371]

He was trying to be a post modern mod comedian.

[@triciabrown3035]

well considering "light my fire" and "Helllo I love you" both charted, it's horseshit, and when Cobain checked out, Nirvana were quite possibly the biggest band on the planet, Morrissey is a toad, who constantly whines about wanting to die, but hasn't the guts to do it, so he just whines about wishing he were dead, I wish he were dead too, Marr is a great, and tasteful guitarist.

[@rmilrta]

@@triciabrown3035 I'm no longer a supporter of Morrissey, but when has he ever whined about wanting to die? Let alone constantly. Some of my heroes may be fallen, but I'm not going to let people trash them unfairly.

[@napatora]

@@rmilrta are you being sarcastic or have you never listened to his lyrics

[@AgentXPQ]

Morrissey is one of the few people that you can make sense of the sentence "I respect you. I like much of your music and lyrics. This however, does not detract from me wanting to punch you repeatedly in the face".

[@buffy8021]

as a long time viewer of yours, I had no idea of your taste in music til now and the content you create makes a lot more sense with this slow discovering of mine lol

[@frankmorris6765]

Like Glenn Danzig!

[@byHexted]

I don’t respect him, I like the music, I don’t respect him as a human in the slightest

[@liamjones9541]

I understand what morrissey is saying it is true sometimes,but i dont think that takes anything away from joy division

[@yourejovian]

I agree w/ morrissey

[@vivaldi1ett]

Definitely not in fact it probably makes people wish they had bothered more when they were around not after they were no longer

[@Scerotic]

It takes away from Nirvana though

[@MidNightSunRiseGamer]

Oh, so this is how Bigmouth Strikes Again came to be.

[@MidNightSunRiseGamer]

MrOnionCock I did not mean it literally.

[@aNgElandPaRaMoReRoX]

I laughed when I read that 😂😂 omg tru

[@oldbullsmith9882]

MidNightSunRiseGamer hahahahahaha

[@tiffanynoelle4869]

Konni-chan omg literally laughed out loud

[@psyche1526]

@MrOnionCock woosh

[@rockguru123]

"Obviously people get very affectionate about groups when they are no longer with us." OH THE IRONY.

[@scarlettkaplan6425]

my life is a constant battle between hating everything that Moz says and still loving his music...

[@ianparker3014]

how awful for you, poor thing

[@darrenwalshe8513]

Agreed 👍

[@puncturedbicycle7264]

Modern Smiths Fans (in my case at least lmao) in a Nutshell

[@cloudbusting_]

Lol, imagine, Moz? "Who even cared about The Smiths when they actually existed?" I wonder how he would react to the death of his band and his words here now. Pretentious wanker... But brilliant lyricist and singer.

[@bobhenderson9276]

It's much better when you love everything he says and his music. :)

[@dankor83]

I love the smiths, and johnny marr's guitar riffs, but i think are wrong about joy division and the doors. In Joy division's case, they were active for a relatively short period of time so they never really got the chance to become very famous, besides that their music was very dark and niche and specific, so they probably wouldn't have become huge in terms of polularity anyway. Ofcourse Ian curtiss's death poured light and mystery on the band, but that does not mean that they are overrated, it means that many people were exposed to the music at a later stage after the death and obviously liked it.

[@mikeroby1313]

Hiya Daniel--I agree with your 'not-very-famous' idea, but only to a point, and I'm wondering if one can elucidate a difference between 'famous' and 'very wel known

[@mikeroby1313]

Sorry. The computer cut me off mid-sentence What I was trying to do there was question whether or not there is a any substantive difference between 'famous' and 'well-known.' for the purposes of this thread, anyway. Me, I dunno. As far as popular opinion of the band is concerned, my experience is probably atypical, but I used to pick up MM or NME* every week and so I fortunately was able to clue my friends in. I bought both albums as imports. Being in a college town provided a little extra access to imports. I think I gave $11 for the first album at a time when most domestic stuff was $4.95. I didn't want to wait until the shop had the US version. So a circle of friends here were doing a lot of listening and a lot of discussion contemporaneously. Anyway, my point was that there had been a lot of interest beforehand in the US. They were pretty well known, but not famous-not yet. *-Two UK music publications, Melody Maker and New Music Express.

[@phillynott2459]

"Joy division were never really around long enough to get famous" -- exactly, and this is why their iconic status is so annoying to me. Their most popular song is so awful

[@desolatesouls7575]

@@phillynott2459 They are iconic because of the genre of post punk they helped to pioneer, not on the basis of which song topped the charts or got famous. They had an outright different sound during a short lived period. If anyone's into post punk, Joy Division easily comes to mind like you associate Pink Floyd and Rush with progressive rock. JD , the founding fathers of post punk. And it is sort of a pop music fan mentality to go after only a 'popular ' or successful song. JD had a lot of punk elements in their earlier work until they began transgressing to post punk. The Smiths sound kinda pop-pish to me ,again my opinion.

[@Akshay-jx6si]

@@phillynott2459 bruh moment

[@marklepe12]

The Doors were outcasts, hated because they were different. It took a decade for the fans to realize the Hall of Fame caliber of music. I still listen to the Doors, The Smiths and Joy Division and its 2020.

[@velium6866]

Light My Fire was played absolutely everywhere and was #1 on the Billboard charts... a staple song of that time, I have no idea where this idea has came from. The Doors were big guys.

[@DESR1995]

@VELIUM Not to mention every single album The Doors put out with Jim Morrison was in the top 10 on the charts in the US.

[@TheHighExecutioner]

Jim wanted to remembered as a great American poet.

[@JimJWalker]

Your wrong Morrisey. The Doors charted #1 with Light My Fire.

[@DAP-mi7ck]

Morrissey said singles, as in plural, so technically he might be right.

[@willvaughan3936]

@@DAP-mi7ck Didn't "Touch Me" and "Hello, I Love You" do quite well?

[@MsRadar23]

Love Her Madly was a hit single too, I don’t know what Moz is smokin

[@arianrhodhyde7482]

He doesn't or didn't know anything about 1960s rock. He didn't even use to like the Rolling Stones

[@Wilantonjakov]

@@arianrhodhyde7482 the Rolling Stones aren't very good.

[@user-yz9kz6vt9y]

It is my understanding that Joy Division had in fact garnered considerable attention during their lifetime. They managed to appear on television and on the radio, they released a bunch of great singles, they toured Europe, and they attracted enough attention to be booked for a North American tour. Not bad

[@royalzaheer7]

joy division did real well with only two albums

[@user-yz9kz6vt9y]

And a bunch of great singles too! The Heart and Soul set contains pretty much all of their music, and it's amazing.

[@Pazuzu82]

And of course they had an album out as Warsaw and there was the "still" album which was so good aswel

[@deanpd3402]

In the meantime, Joy Division was well known in Sydney Australia and very much a part of what we were listening to...before Ian died.

[@regzzuse280]

Marrs face expression might be because... If you listen closely a song by The Doors called Touch Me, the bass line is pretty much the same as it is in the song This Charming Man by The Smiths, of course Marr created the music for the Smiths, while Moz would write lyrics, and Moz probably never realized this, but Johnny on the other side...

[@billyparham630]

this is a bit misleading. firstly, marr surely wrote music but mickey rourke (probably one of the most overshadowed bass players, listen to Barbarism Begins At Home/Still Ill or practically anything) wrote his own basslines just as mike joyce wrote his own drum parts. i'm not saying rourke didn't like the doors, but your comment strongly implies you are giving marr a credit for mickeys work. next, the rhythm you're talking about is pretty common, for example cpt. beefheart used it profusely on "safe as milk" and many others before and after. but yes, marrs reaction to morrisseys comment is priceless

[@regzzuse280]

Its OK, you dont have to name any song of The Smiths for me. I know about bass of BBAH and how much Flowers and Stoermer liked it as well. In This Charming m, It might be a common bass line but I cant hear a big difference in The Doors song and that one. Just listened to the album you mentioned, its pretty similar in lines but not exactly as the 2 songs. I absolutely agree that both Rourke and Joyce are underrated, but sadly Moz didnt think the same, and diehard Moz fans who thought that just Pope of the mope is unique and all others are easily replacable.

[@billyparham630]

well did you? i don't mean to bust your balls but there is definitely more similarity to the rhythm than to lines (meaning melodies or lyrics) and even the rhythm similarities appear very seldom. i only mentioned this album to ilustrate that this "beat" (if you will) is very common throughout the history of music, i'm sure there are better examples i can't think of, perhaps someone can contribute. point being i personaly don't believe that the rhythm of This Charming Man was inspired specifically by Touch Me, the similarity you point out is in my opinion very general and simply not enough for me to believe it. although it is a nice theory i don't think it is true. morrissey is, as someone nicely pointed out, not a dick. he is just a massive shit-stirrer :D

[@regzzuse280]

Could you name exact songs from the album and of The Smiths that you find the same in rythm? So I can knoew exactly what you are thinking of. About Moz, I think that the guy is more of a dick then anything else.

[@billyparham630]

sure, it is distinctive in "Call On Me" around 1:57. i actually thought doors got inspired by beefheart on touch me, even the drumming is very similar. but then again who knows, as i said, it might have been beefheart or anybody else at that period.

[@jadefacetiger]

Only time will tell the true significance of a band. Regardless of what Morrissey and Marr may have said in their 20's, both The Smiths and Joy Division have remained viable and relevant to this day. They both have become legendary. This was said in the arrogance of youth, (which we all guilty of) I wonder what he would say today.

[@yannilaurel3781]

There were people taking notice of Joy Division before Ian Curtis died, even in the US, through import vinyl and listening to college radio - punk, new wave, reggae, etc. Those few small label tracks JD put out on Factory were sufficient.

[@utopian3d]

Says the man who idolized James Dean.

[@surreptitiouswritings]

This is the most valid point ive seen on this video. Very observant, for real.

[@alanbenatar1120]

Dean was already a legend in his own time

[@mortalscumm3647]

lollllllll

[@GHam-f9o]

Oh, no doubt- I’m sure that’s who Morrissey was thinking about in the back of his mind. If dean hadn’t died young the way he did, Morrissey and most people wouldn’t give a rats ass about him lmao. Or just think of him like Steve McQueen

[@darrenparkinson7195]

@@GHam-f9o I thought the same

[@alexbreyer6921]

I was a big Smiths and Joy Division fan, but Re: The Doors…from "Billboard" magazine: "The Doors was one of the most successful bands on the Billboard 200 albums chart in the late 1960s and early 1970s, racking up seven top 10 releases between 1967 and 1971. The quartet's self-titled debut album was released on Elektra Records in 1967 and went on to spend two weeks at No. 2 on the Billboard 200 chart (blocked only by the Beatles' No. 1 "Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band"). "The Doors" spent a lengthy 121 weeks on the Billboard 200, spinning off the smash hit single "Light My Fire." The track spent three weeks lodged at No. 1 on the Billboard Hot 100 chart, marking the first of 16 Hot 100 hits for the band."

[@mikeluke9404]

I think he was talking about it Britain, but the doors were great and ahead of their time, just listen to the end!!!

[@jimmynebula]

Johnny Marr had a filter, but Morrissey went full on sniper mode on Joy Division! If you told Johnny Marr 5 years later he would start this little group called Electronic I don't think he would have believed it...

[@richardminter9462]

The Smiths are just jealous. Joy Division were simply ahead of their time.

[@Wilantonjakov]

so were the Smiths.

[@LL-it4bv]

So were The Doors

[@vhs8669]

So were Dragon Sound

[@ljinlj]

Why would they be jealous, they started a few years earlier then The Smiths, I rather think they respect(ed) eachother

[@transmit13]

@@Wilantonjakov Joy Division and New Order were always light years better than anything Moz has ever done. Also in 2019. Fuck Moz so hard, racist shitbag.

[@tovmusic]

Johnny’s face at the end haha

[@tomfijakowski-panodpolaka]

Marr? Cool as ever. But Mozz? He was talking bullshit since he was born. (I am hard core Smiths fan)

[@Wilantonjakov]

Marr? Cool as ever. Mozz? also cool as ever. (Not today though)

[@barryallen3883]

It's funny to see that even Marr reacts like "bruh" when Morrissey says that The Doors had no hit singles lol

[@leod-sigefast]

It looks like an arrogant smirk from Marr. Not disapproval. More like "yeah, I agree Moz but I didn't have the balls to say it".

[@DrewMazur]

Nick Drake. Barely anyone appreciated his music when he was alive. I think someone said in a documentary that Drake was disappointed with Bryter Layter not becoming his big breakthrough album. Part of the reason he became depressed in the first place was that he didn't get enough appreciation in his lifetime. Now I can't freaking buy Pink Moon on vinyl because it costs freaking 200 something US dollars on Ebay. Morrissey definitely has a point.

[@bigwave25]

Morrissey just says stuff to be controversial.

[@Karlasheryniele]

I love Moz, but seriously? The doors had singles, Light my fire was the biggest one.

[@Yodaismycopilot]

Karla sheryniele Morrissey must cringe when he sees this interview... Light My Fire People Are Strange Moonlight Drive L.A. Woman Love Her Madly Touch Me Back Door Man Riders On The Storm The Unknown Soldier Break On Through Roadhouse Blues Hello, I Love You etc.

[@theartfuldodger935]

Yodaismycopilot The Doors were vastly over-rated. I mean, Jim Morrison was a genius like Britney Spears is a nuclear physicist. Light My Fire was a huge hit for them (written entirely by Robby Krieger). None of the others on your list would I consider to be "hit singles". Manzarek and Krieger were/are the real deal as musicians though. The Smiths' music is far more artistic, creative and innovative.

[@Yodaismycopilot]

The Artful TodgerI appreciate your comments, and thank you! I have owned both Smiths and Doors albums. I saw Morrissey live in Berkeley. I only mention these because I have enjoyed both bands and have some rationale for a balanced perspective. The Doors are not overrated, in my opinion. These are both different bands for vastly different times, musically at least. My favorite Smiths tune is "Hand That Rocks The Cradle." Very delicate and nuanced. Also recall that many artists (painters, sculptors, musicians, etc.) are only fully appreciated and understood posthumously. And I think that is OK.

[@PUMASAFTERMIDNIGHT]

+Karla sheryniele not in the UK...

[@robertbrown8362]

The Artful Dodger what a load of bollocks,you obviously wer'nt around when jm was alive

[@MangaMaster700]

If you guys were smart enough, the thing that Morrisey said about The Doors was coming from an ENGLISH perspective, not an AMERICAN one. The Doors, in England, only had 4 CHARTING SONGS their whole career. I know Morrisey can be a bit rude at some times, but get your facts straight guys.

[@mikeroby1313]

And if YOU were smart enough you might have come up with a less silly-ass rationale for his comment. Fifteen years was plenty of time for anyone, British or American, to come to an appreciation of the Doors and their place in the development of rock-n-roll. The fact that when the Smiths were at their peak both artistically and popularly Doors REISSUES trumped their sales figures certainly impacted Morrissey's opinion. It's an idiot comment from either side of the Atlantic.

[@kennedyknew8701]

I have a house in Amsterdam I walk across the street to a bar coffeeshop called the doors palace...its a shrine to the doors.....no fucking smiths coffeeshop.... Funny that

[@profd65]

Four charting songs in a foreign country is pretty good, especially since the Doors were only around for about five years. Furthermore, even if the Doors were relatively unpopular in England during Morrison's life, they were very popular elsewhere and Morrisey should have known that.

[@usauser3163]

hahaha from a english perspective ? the smiths slipped in the back door of totp and had a few lines in nme about there pop songs n daft lyrics......i think you will find them four charting songs of the doors were attained through worldwide appeal ..... as for the smiths well ? well big in there own back yard sums them up! and a small back yard at that....

[@satwadude3371]

He was trying to be a post modern mod comedian.

[@gaevlebocken]

"At the record company party, on their hands a dead star"...

[@vivaldi1ett]

Joy Division weren’t loved when they were about are you kidding me! They were always fantastic and very much loved by us fans thank you very much Morrissey you’re wrong mate I tried to get to see them and waited for hours because there were so many of us trying to get in I was praying in that que! Just wanted to see Ian singing so much it hurt and I’m so grateful to have had the privilege of watching him doing his stuff he was amazing and mesmerising and very sexy to see him I was honoured by his presence and the image will stay with me forever 🎸🤘💞✝️😘🙏🏻🤪🎸🇬🇧🤘

[@scrobag1]

Define loved? Joy Division played very small venues throughout much of their existence. They were not playing 1500 capacity venues my friend. 100 people would show up. The Smiths were playing 1500 people within a year of the first single.

[@user-yp3oj5se1i]

Their most famous song and most people only know love will tear us apart is not bad sounding for what it is. It's not very good if you look at the melody and lyrics. Love doesn't tear people apart. The song might be referring to a fairytale in new york type couple that don''t get along all the time and their getting back together after breaking up/ being apart relationship. Therefore their 'love' tears them apart. The singing style is a he's just woken up type one.

[@limoncr5205]

@@user-yp3oj5se1i crap comment.

[@conorspurs113]

My brother gave me his unknown pleasures CD when I was 15, had never heard of Joy Divsion before that, I fell in love with the music before I knew any of the band members names, let alone that the lead singer was dead.

[@5870cve0]

Same for me

[@vincentmcnabb939]

Joy Division are great...quite simply!

[@lnb29]

Well Morrissey has always been quite jealous of Ian because he had the balls to actually commit suicide.

[@jdunn101ify]

LNBlack29 absolute nonsense

[@asseroya]

FUCK, LOL

[@hottie286]

Looks like u came from the interview, eh?

[@shewwy1509]

wow fuck off

[@DarkWolf3399]

Lmfao

[@POUNDERS408]

For those who spat on Morrissey for this little interview, you may not understand what he was saying. There's a bigger picture Morrissey is talking about. He's talking about how we deal with death in music culture… He isn't saying that the doors were nobody. He is also probably envious of Ian. And tries to find ways around saying it. Ian's death gave birth to Joy Division and everything it meant, the final ingredient. Something Morrissey never had the guts to do. Ian was a real victim in his own body and he projected it onto albums for everyone to listen to. Morrissey will never be what Ian was, as a culture, we only value youth, Morrissey's is gone and tainted with solo album after solo album. He may have been one of the greatest lyric writers ever, but he wasn't so great at business and maintaining the magic he had captured with The Smiths. Morrissey hopes to be that icon we all love and miss, but that can't happen until he's gone. Which is really what this interview should of been about.

[@smithfan22]

I understand Morrissey's point in which death affects how we view celebrities and artists, however his opinions are coming from his own pretensions. The Doors were a popular band in the 1960's and had a iconic frontman, even before is death. Same thing with The Jimi Hendrix Experience. Morrissey gets into his own world sometimes and this interview is a good example of it.

[@POUNDERS408]

Ephraim Lessell Awesome response to my initial comment. Enjoyed reading it. I can honestly say I agree with you. He is interesting, and says things most of us wouldn't say to the press, which I think some people like about him. The whole doors thing is pretty weird, going back, its hard to know what he really meant. And I say that because why would someone say that they didn't have singles when they absolutely did, so it makes me wonder what he may have really been trying to get at. But at the same time, maybe I'm prying and hoping for more than whats really there. He likes being the center of attention, and he was good at doing it. Sometimes you have to wonder if the joke is on us, is our reaction to his statement what he wanted? He may be full of himself which none of us see as a positive trait, but would we have him any other way? I guess you either love him or hate him. I do wish he would pay more respect to the people who love to do what he also does, create music.

[@LostSoulAscension]

Yeah, with the doors thing, he basically made an inaccurate comment on the popularity and significance of the doors and their success as a band. His overarching point was that deaths make bands and people more famous, but that whole comment on the doors really backfired since the Doors were huge when they hit the scene and were breaking all kinds of barriers in terms of popular music and rock n roll. He wasn't thinking at all when he said that.

[@oldbullsmith9882]

Chris Pounders exactly

[@henryfernandez4357]

No. Morrissey is a piece of garbage. What exactly is his point? That he was skeptical Joy Division was as good as they were because they were not around anymore? The Doors not having any hit singles? Even if they didn't have any hit singles it doesn't take away from the fact they were a great band. Morrissey is just a silly, arrogant little man who although he would never admit it, knows he could never be as good as Ian, and it bothers him to no end. Like Henry Rollins said, he needs to be ticked to death.

[@Nominay]

The Doors had 2 number one hit singles in the US. They were celebrated massively in their European 1968 tour. What the hell is Morrissey talking about?

[@RobinASmith138]

Morrissey is full of shit and even he knows it! I like the Smiths but beyond the music I don't really care for them much. He also talked shit about the Cure, he just wants everything to be about him if you ask me..

[@Philliben1991]

The Doors had one Top Ten hit in the UK and two more Top 40 so they weren't exactly a hit machine on this side of the Atlantic. Their albums didn't fare much better. None went Top 10 and a couple didn't even chart.

[@Nominay]

@@Philliben1991 They're an incredible group. Morrissey's shit talk of other great artists is legendary and obnoxious.

[@user-yp3oj5se1i]

@@Nominay Only 2 in their home country/ country they are most liked in?? and you act like that doesn't prove Morrissey's point?? You sound like a troll

[@21vision]

Cannot deny his point the frontman’s sudden death puts the band into a spotlight and secures higher sales. The Doors were good, but there many good bands in any decade. Martyrdom is a thing, I guess there is no need bringing up a 2000 year old example.

[@lukecoyi1784]

He’s right! It’s even more evident in today’s world, as when a celebrity dies they gain a huge amount of followers on Social Media. Once again Morrissey is spot on.

[@DoctorMeatDic]

I love Morrissey, but this is one of the rare occasions he is wrong. Joy Division's back catalogue competes with The Smiths as being so influential and so perfect. Their sound was as unique as The Smiths. Morrissey was probably about 22 here, so I can easily forgive him.

[@transmit13]

Joy Division's back catalogue is is more impressive than anything The Smiths did. And so is every New Order release that came out in the 80s. Not even close. Put JD & NO together as one and nothing beats that.

[@wanneske1969]

Morrissey was 26 back then

[@lukeowen1513]

Despite being a big Joy Division fan and a fan of The Doors, I agree with Moz. I think that death does create an aura of mystery and excitement. And a controversial death creates legends. Curtis, Morrisson, Cobain and Monroe are icons primarily because of they died in their prime.

[@user-yp3oj5se1i]

Cobain shouldn't be in that list. His song crafting talent created his legendary status. That kourtney hate thing killed him and said it was suicide. Her own father showed us how disturbed by fame lust she was as a child.

[@popolbruh8263]

Morrissey might have made that comment about The Doors because they weren't nearly as popular in the UK as they were here in the States.

[@GenteelCretin]

I've read Marr citing "Love Will Tear Us Apart" (and Magazine's "Shot By Both Sides") as a quintessential song by his appropriation. Early on, The Smiths were talking to their vision over their beliefs, and this is one such case.

[@crushsatan]

A back story helps generate interest in a band, a boxer, or any public figure. Bob Dylan had a compelling (false) back story to create a buzz.The story and legend that surrounds an artist (like Robert Johnson selling his soul to the devil) does factor in.I was fascinated by the story of Joy Division before I heard their music. It stirred my imagination. Joy Division and The Smiths are different styles of music, touching different parts of the mind.

[@gangrel_76]

What he says about death catapulting someone to fame is true.

[@nobbyclarke9166]

Of course... suddenly these people are all over the news. It’s free advertisement for their music but sadly at the wrong time.

[@xolborLOL]

that much is true i'll be honest

[@DUBtheTIGER]

Morrissey wasn't being egotistical or insulting. It's just how he comes off. This is a man who's bedroom was adorned with James Dean posters, hence him referencing dead film stars, which shows me that he wasn't being condescending about the notion of holding dead stars in a special regard, simply saying that we're inclined to doing so.

[@guitarslinger213]

Right when Moz said "dead film stars", I knew he was talking about James Dead. As a fan of the Doors and Joy Division, I still think The Smiths can back it up with their sheer talent. Moz is allowed to be opinionated. It's who he is, and he has remained famous for a very long time. Still selling out shows (he never attends.)

[@manephewlenny6401]

@@guitarslinger213 who is James Dead?

[@kongobongo4562]

Morrissey is incredibly literate and intelligent, and he has a point about mortality (just look at poets like Woolf or Plath), but Joy Division were on the rise to fame as Ian committed suicide. Just think how massive they would have become if they went on that American tour, as well as if they went on to tour 'Closer' and 'Love Will Tear Us Apart' once they'd actually been released. To anyone looking down upon Morrissey or Ian Curtis, they're both truly special frontmen/lyricists whatever their opinions may be.

[@PC-wt6bi]

Joy division and The Doors fans in the comments clearly dont understand what morrissey was actually saying lol

[@linsayspence7070]

One thing about Morrissey is he stays true to himself and he speaks the truth , however, unfortunately a lot of people don't like the truth .

[@HughRogers609]

It's not the truth, it's Morrissey's idea of things, and he's a tool. Always was. Doors had more hits than the Smiths. And JM sells more T Shirts. Not bad for a bloke dead 50 years.

[@jonatannegri3588]

@@HughRogers609 just because something or someone became a popular media icon doesnt mean that they are good. The Door are a fucking great band, but theres a lot of people who only knew for the Jim image and Light my fire. The Smiths no one cares or knows beside that hipster fetiche, thats they charm, i loved it, awesome songs and lyrics real deep like no other band. Look what happens with this shit music from latam (im Argentinian) they sound everywhere and its shit, the worst moment on music ever

[@Nonmachaine]

Mozza makes a very valid point that when artists such as Jim Morrison and Ian Curtis died their music became vastly more popular, this happens quite often in music. He never said they weren't good. But of course many KZbin commenters translate this as 'a Morrissey fucking hates Joy Division and The Doors, he thinks they are the worst bands ever and they should burn in hell, how dare he'' kind of thing.

[@paulhopkinson9406]

morrissey wasn't a patch on curtis, ian still remains one of the top songwriters ever

[@AlcholicAlligators]

That is one thing that I love about Morrissey is that he always states his opinion in such an unfiltered way, and to be honest we do romanticize dead celebrities, especially those that were tortured like Morrison, Cobain and especially Curtis.

[@janfranszuidema8512]

Morrissey is fun.

[@aloysiusthefish7076]

Moz's remarks re The Doors here are monumentally tongue in cheek but that seems to have soared over the heads of many. JM's look confirms it - Moz being dramatic again! He's laughing along. You can hear it in the tone he says, "I don't even think they had hit singles!". His humour is very camp and exaggerative. I find it really endearing, but bores will be bores.

[@robertsmith6818]

As The Stranglers once wrote. Everybody Loves You When You’re Dead. Morrissey is spot on what he says.

[@KryptoChronicutelite]

I fucking love both The Smiths and Joy Division, so this is heartbreaking to hear. And that last jab at The Doors was uncalled for, no matter how true it might be.

[@BayviewFinch]

It wasn't a jab at the Doors. It was a jab at fans.

[@KryptoChronicutelite]

"I don't think they even had hit singles". That's a jab at the band...

[@Wilantonjakov]

I think you misunderstand. Morrissey was competitive back in the 80s. His view of the Smiths was a vision for the greatest band of all time, and he didn't like competition for that title, especially when other bands were seeking the same thing. That's why I love him, you know exactly when he likes a band... and it's when he insults them. Although, today he is as sour as a lemons and limes... and his music followed suit.

[@TheChannelofaDisappointedMan]

Joy Division dug deeper than Morrissey ever managed.

[@bobsbigboy_]

Nope

[@gggallin8279]

@@bobsbigboy_ yep

[@Liam123-r8o]

Nope. But both are great.

[@dermot51]

Funny thing about Johnny when he joined up with Barney for the Electonic 'project' he could'nt stop singing Joy Divisions praises in interviews , make you fucking mind up John

[@eddietasker9110]

I agree with the point about Manchester not having a specific sound, and Morrisey actually has a good point that's still relevant to this day. However, joy division aren't the doors, they're arguably the greatest band of all time.

[@viridian_sea]

"Film stars that are dead..." Like James Dean, who was the subject by a book Morrissey wrote, if I'm not mistaken...

[@marguskiis7711]

It was fashionable to pan Joy Division by hip bands those years (Jesus & Mary Chain made it too) because everybody were comparing new bands with Joy Division and it was true, they used to sound quite like JD, at least many of them.

[@garethhole6428]

Jesus and Mary chain admitted they were joking in that interview, they knew the interviewers favourite band was Joy Division

[@scottlebrun6782]

Exactly... it's called jealousy and it's the greatest compliment around.

[@DuBziDriFT]

But The Doors were pretty darn big when they were around. Sorry Moz... for embarrassing yourself.

[@davvyefc1]

not in the UK,as he says they never had a uk top ten hit and record sales far outnumbered original sales on reissue after morrisons death, MOZ is spot on ,either your a big Doors fan or ur thick,

[@RikiNewtonMusicianSongwriter]

FYI Mozza - both Light My Fire and Hello I Love You - were number 1's while The Doors were ALIVE !! She Cried.

[@ellaschroeder1617]

Morrissey and Marr gave me a choice

[@sydbarrett5]

I hear you. My experience was similar. I found a copy of Unknown Pleasures in a record shop and put it on at the listening post. I didn't know anything about them until a year later 1996 when the internet came along.

[@epameinondasrjg]

Same old same old. I don't know why Morrisey can't accept Ian Curtis was his equal, if not beyond. Drop the sour grapes mate and accept we lost one of the finest front men, poets, artists and musicians ever to grace us with their presence...and the band weren't bad either

[@Patrickkokujin]

Ian Curtis and Joy Division were the real deal. Time has proven this .

[@franksaldana6570]

Morrissey’s words are so ironic considering what happened to the smiths and how they are viewed now

[@silversnail1413]

Morrissey's just butthurt that he couldn't fit in with the Factory crowd. Nobody wants to hear Oscar Wilde poetry readings down at the Hacienda when they're trying to have a good time. Even Ian Curtis, despite having a reputation for being gloomy and depressed, could still lighten up and have fun with the guys from time to time.

[@kateisthegreatest1]

i think people should shut up arguing about whether joy division or the smiths were better. i dont think morrissey was trying to be offensive or say that the doors or joy division were bad bands, i think he was trying to say that some people didnt really appreciate them enough until they ended and that their deaths had an impact on their fame, i really dont think he was trying to offend anyone i just think he was trying to point out that when you're dead people appreciate you more.. obviously a

[@davidmcdonald6804]

And the great thing is...Morrissey and Marr can back up what they say...The Smiths are Gods...

[@StenSturesKanal]

Too many folk listen to Jim Morrison and not to the wonderful band The Doors. They were all fab in my opinion.

[@wesleyayres7017]

Honestly this may just be me but I don't really feel that Morrissey was saying anything bad about Joy Division, but just that he thought they didn't get the appreciation when they were in existence, which I completely agree with. It's ashame that so much of their large appeale came post Ian's death. Their's a really good interview with Stephen Morris after a Joy Division gig where he says the exact same thing, that they weren't getting played on the big radio shows purely because of their darker tone. I feel like Morrissey is more making a comment about how the main stream radio didn't let Joy Division become that big until there was a tragedy and they saw their ticket to makung the next big deal.

[@seamusoflatcap]

The question I have then, would Joy Division have been as big if Curtis had lived?

[@wesleyayres7017]

@@seamusoflatcap I think, and this is just my opinion and I love Joy Division, that they would have been a bit less popular in England, probably not much less, but in America I think they may have been less popular because Ian's death birthed America's first big learning about Joy Division, as they never got to actually tour in America, and I don't know if they would have been as popular without the press coverage and media burst around Ian's death. Like I said this is just my opinion and I'm not wholely sure myself haha

[@seamusoflatcap]

@@wesleyayres7017 I think it's a pretty reasonable opinion. Obviously without his death there'd have been no New Order. What irritates me is the either/or argument. Smiths or Joy Division. It's perfectly possible to like both. Nor can anyone say that such and such a band is the best. It's all a matter of taste. You can't base it on record sales other wise the Spice Girls would be in the running, God help us. Still, if New Order hadn't existed we wouldn't have had to put up with World In Motion: )

[@wesleyayres7017]

@@seamusoflatcap haha yes world in motion is not my favourite to say the least 😂 but yeah I completely agree, I just can't see why people feel that it's either or, especially as both artists were touring the same circuit and there for essentially supporting each other throughout their careers. I love all 3 bands, all for different reasons and your absolutely right if it was about sales then artists like The Chameleons would be seen as the bottom of the ladder, and they're one of my absolute favourite post punk bands and just bands in general

[@seamusoflatcap]

@@wesleyayres7017 Yay! The Chameleons! An under rated band. I saw them at the international 2 (I think. I was bladdered for a lot of the 80s).

[@mementomori2021]

I think it's so true that people are fascinated by death. Morrissey is so right about that. If he didn't like them it's just his preferences.

[@suledrake]

So many people mourn The Smiths...

[@mikeylikesit100]

I don't think Morrissey was necessarily saying The Doors sucked, just pointing out that no one really appreciated them until they weren't around anymore. He's got a point, when artists die or stop making art, their art immediately becomes more valuable & cherished. When Jim Morrison was alive people thought he was just a drunk, & some even thought he was insane. The minute he died though he became a "poet", not saying he wasn't but boy do people jump on the bandwagon the minute someone dies.

[@Pirate7X]

For real. The Doors & Nirvana actually had gold & platinum chart hits worldwide during their run and were rightly considered 'pop' groups before 'pop' became a bad word. Moz was either mistaken or simply being his standardly provocative self and Marr was having a laugh at that, quietly.

[@o0Luki0o]

well no one really cared about Joy Division because they were just starting to get more popular just before Ian's suicide...and i think many people first listened to Joy Division and then found out about death in the group so...i love The Smiths but this just sounds bitter

[@TerryLane4427]

Popularity of New Order playing Joy Division music brought attention to Joy Division in my opinion. As for The Smiths, I consider Marr and Morrisey's comments as Manchester rivalry. Joy Division were already functioning as a group before The Smith's were ever formed. These guys all knew each other. In the years since Johnny Marr and Bernard Sumner (the guitarist of Joy Division/New Order) formed Electronic. On KZbin videos you can find Andy Rourke playing with Peter Hook (bassist of Joy Division/New Order) with his band. Who has Morrissey collaborated with?

[@sense_maker1816]

Strange comment about the Doors. Their singles were literally the engine that propelled them forward: Break on Through, Light My Fire, Hello I Love You, People Are Strange, Riders on the Storm, etc. That is a fucking unrivaled arsenal of songs.

[@canuck21]

Ian was certainly essential to the direction the band would go musically, but it was still the musicians who created the music. Early New Order material is proof to me that they were indeed behind the music and the fact that they had a successful career shows that it was no fluke. They changed their musical style because they had to go beyond their shadow.

[@CruceEntertainment]

Morrissey is 💯 hilarious!!!!!

[@azimatic1]

jealous of Ian's talent

[@decaffeinatedafrican5997]

Honestly Morrissey is more talented lyrically, even in their debut.

[@nahuelramljak9321]

@@decaffeinatedafrican5997 both are very good, it is somewhat subjective, for me Ian wins as a lyricist because he exists closer, very few albums represent despair and human pain so well.

[@zero00-100]

@@decaffeinatedafrican5997 The Smiths didn't do too well with hits and billboards though

[@eightiescrazy]

I'm not sure Morrissey is being jealous here, I just think he genuinely believes himself to be so much more talented than anyone else who ever is or was in the music industry. Pretty arrogant, but The Smiths have given me a great deal of comfort and pleasure, so I let statements such as this slide... 😉

[@bryanbrush2202]

I think the music stands for itself.

[@Cynical2012]

How's that solo career going Morsi?

[@r3tr0actiongamer24]

Actually its going pretty good.

[@JBackkkkk]

Brilliantly :)

[@mattwright2964]

Marr looked embarrassed at Morriseys comment.

[@Gibson1976uk]

Wow!! Marrs eyebrows when the mention of the doors didn’t have hit singles come up!!!

[@moviescinema7036]

1:12 Yeah expect for "Light My Fire", "Hello, I Love You", "Touch Me" and "Love Her Madly.

[@danhurley833]

It's Morrissey's very oblique way of saying that he's more important as an artist than ei Morrison, (or subsequently Cobain, etc). Not that that pointless claim can ever be validated but damn it's such a testament to Morrissey's unwavering confidence in himself and ironically, he may one day be considered the greatest singer/songwriter of "these last 50 years and currently ongoing" period. We'll never know.

[@shihailu7841]

Sorry, I never love smiths as deep as joy division.

[@zero00-100]

The Smiths were more of a one hit wonder band that got secondary charts.

[@charlierowell1395]

:o the smiths are far from a one hit wonder band, this charming man, heaven knows I’m miserable now, bigmouth strikes again, how soon is now, there is a light that will never go out are some of their most commercially successful tracks.

[@funkmike]

I like the Smiths and generally think Morissey is ok, but man his ignorance on music could fill the Grand Canyon.

[@n136h]

I like the way Moz asks who even cared about The Doors when they existed, he does have a point

[@lukewhite8930]

Morrissey's right and makes an interesting point that pop culture today and recent times has a fascination with death. Thing is Ian Curtis and Joy Division's music and other artist like Beefheart, Velvet Underground, and such are examples that you don't need commercial success to be critically acclaimed and profoundly impact or influence music.

[@Blisteryn]

I don't hate Morrissey for this, this was a long time ago, why do people want to beat him because of what he said more than 30 years ago?

[@tonymontana4455]

Because he still saying shit

[@AbsintheColour]

They are both great bands. The doors as well. You can't necessarily ask a member of a certain band to say the other band was better. Its highly competitive. Lol. And death does make great endeavours legend. Morrisey is right about that. I love marr and morrisey and the smiths have got to be in my top 5 bands. They just have such a vast collection of great contributions. But I love morrison and ian too and don't take seriously the seeming downplay of them by marr and morrisey here.

[@scottlebrun6782]

Love Will Tear us Apart is the template for Smiths success; morose lyrics sung to jangly upbeat pop riffs. No wonder they dismiss Joy Division; they don't want to be exposed.

[@joshualyons2854]

The only difference is the fantastically poetic lyrics of Morrissey. Let’s face it, without Morrissey The Smiths would have stayed a small-time Manchester band.

[@thecitizenjoan]

I’d like to hear the opinion of an older Morrissey now to see if its still the same, now being able to look in hindsight. He was right in the respect that people appreciated Joy Division more after Ian’s death, and people do tend to appreciate people more after they die often times, but his death has nothing to do with the fact that while he was alive they created some of the best songs ever written, were undeniably one of the greatest bands that ever existed and were responsible for influencing countless amounts of bands after them. The Smiths were as well albeit but they have two different sounds so its not really advisable to compare them.

[@amazinmets8439]

0:51 This describes Heath Ledger to a tee. Guaranteed nobody would saying his overrated Joker performance was "the best ever" had he not overdosed.

[@revol148]

1:19 - Oh well at least the Doors were spared going past their sell-by date unlike other Popstars I care to mention....

[@RossBayCult]

Kinda ironic with The Smiths ending too soon as well. They’re seen in a similar light to JD

[@TonyC-uz5uu]

Well, millions of people were absolutely crazy about The Smiths while they existed, so...

[@PeterShieldsukcatstripey]

Such a deep individual thinker Morrissey.

[@charliedawson4877]

I'm sure Curtis would love that Morrissey expressed his dislike for the band by comparing them to The Doors.

[@Rocky-sn6fl]

Im with Henry Rollins here...

[@wolfcamera1]

The comparison of Morrisey and Ian Curtis is like comparing the Beano to Arthur Rimbaud. Morrisey and his talentless guitar part, is still squeezing his pubescent greasy plooks, while Curtis Lyrics are a timeless meditation on the human condition. I put my trust in you Mr Curtis.

[@kennyevans2401]

@@wolfcamera1 Morrisy is a ball of fluff from between Ian's toes in comparison especially in-depth and substance! Keep paddling upon the seashore Moz leave the deep ocean to the men!!!!