day 2 all electric double decker bus. fail sauce

[@zero_rig]

Hang in there James. You're a pioneer!

[@iandyck3069]

Very informative and valuable information for the Motorcoach industry. Glad it’s you doing this James. Looking forward to the rest of this series. Safe and happy travels

[@kylesimonds6890]

You drive very good from Rochester ny

[@daheels5280]

I would love that trip. Seems like back when gasoline/diesel engines first started and there were not many gas stations and uniformity in fuel qualites. I'm very happy you are enjoying the trip and taking it in stride.

[@Subarude-zr5qf]

Hey man welcome. Yes Santa Clarita was pronounced correctly. You are 30 miles south of me, Antelope Vallley, high desert. Come up my way and eventually you'll hit Death Valley, hottest place on earth. Great videos James! Peace

[@AMStationEngineer]

The Starlink system is not acquiring the spotbeam transmissions from the satellite(s)?; (possibly a fringe area between two or more satellite coverage areas)????? Many thanks for allowing us to hitch a ride, James!!

[@mikeschulte4271]

These videos r hard to watch when they r so choppy , keep ‘em coming though love ur channel

[@billmcdonald0256]

Hi 👋 James You have right idea ! Your making good 🍋 LEMONADE..All the Lemons 🍋 You having to deal with 😮 When you get rolling again you & your teem will enjoy that sweet 😋 EV ride..The 🛫 Wright Brothers are looking down & Saying look at James Taking the same Guff as we did 😂{Noah Was on a trip 40+40nights 🌧 You think you have a parking Problem..Happy Trails..GodBless..🙏🇺🇦

[@JREwing78]

Kind of disappointing that Van Hool didn't spec powerful enough electric motors (or allow enough draw from the battery pack) to handle climbing 6% grades. Most of the heavy truck EVs I've seen have plenty of reserve power and have to be governed to prevent overly aggressive off-the-line launches.

[@jwg9338]

That sounds about right for Van Hoole. 🤣

[@MotorcoachWorld]

The bus it's self is really responsive. Great performance and very comfortable and quiet. But it's just really heavy with over 20,000 LBs of batteries on board. So climbing hills is a big of a challenge. I'm sure of I had a fill bus of passengers it would have been worse.

[@BitcoinfunforBoomers]

Engineering missed it on power train design - maybe they left out the weight of the batteries in their original design specs? Hope they have a fix in mind.

[@Kevinskywest1]

Electrical supply almost as much as diesel fuel

[@stevewooly]

James: "Engage"!! (Insert serious Picard tone). Watching this replay on our '97 Mercedes OH1621 Motorhome using StarLink. Stick with StarLink, ours has never let us down over the past two years constantly. I reckon it's the WiFi, not the satellite side that's the issue. Send you a link when we convert our bus to electric!

[@BitcoinfunforBoomers]

Thanks for doing this trial and sharing your experiences with us. Some comments: 1) EA and other CCS chargers are unreliable and expensive as you are discovering. Its why GM and Ford have made deals with Tesla so they can use the highly reliable Tesla SuperCharger network. 2) The lack of power is a design issue rather than a reflection on electric propulsion. The Tesla semi is able to maintain the posted speed limit up Donner Pass pulling a trailer with a full load, where as the diesels have to slow down. So its not a case of "EVs are no good" as some may think. Bus is simply under powered. 3) EV buses are a much better fit for local runs, where you can have an appropriate charger back at the home base. This is how Pepsico and others are handling the rollout of their electric semi fleet. 4) Inability to connect and charge at 350 KW may be software related (in the bus). Charge rate on other EVs tapers as the battery becomes fuller, which may also be in play. Tesla has designed their Semi to charge at much higher rates, up to 3.75 Mega watts, which is 20 times faster than you were seeing in the video. Not trying to be a Tesla fanboi, just pointing out what technology is capable of so folks don't make a lifelong conclusion that "EV buses will never work". They are already serving as airport shuttles and are popular with passengers. More engineering is needed before that bus will be viable, but that's why real-world test drives like you are doing are important as they help reveal improvement opportunities. I'm actually surprised they let this public test drive take place for a bus that, while beautiful, is not ready to transport a full load of passengers.

[@americanrambler4972]

The big energy gulper bus is not the same as a car or pickup. Your on the bleeding edge here with a battery electric heavy duty vehicle. It’s stuff like this where the capability’s and problems or issues are flushed out. This adventure is a field prototype test. Your the lab rat in the maze. One of the issues while they can in a pinch, big commercial vehicles are not going to be using the same chargers as cars and pickups just like today. Big travel centers and truck stops separate the fueling of cars from big trucks with different fuel islands for each. I personally think your going to see the same sort of accommodation for commercial vehicles vs cars and light duty trucks convert to battery electric.

[@JohnJackson-l3x]

I am guessing you did not stop at Magic Mountain. Sorry to see the problems not only with charging, but also with Starlink. It looks like diesel is more cost effective even with the cost of DEF added. Had VanHool considered supplemental solar panels?

[@AMStationEngineer]

The best question/comment as of 02:00 Hrs 28 July! (IMHO, by the way) Please pretend there are "muchos thumb's up" emojis here......

[@stevepackard8542]

I didn't hear you say if a full passenger load would affect the miles? I'm guessing it would.

[@johnp139]

And slow it down even more going up hills!

[@wendellcrim8647]

For comparison, I picked up a new Van Hool at ABC in FL with the DD13 powerplant. Made it to Omaha on the 1st full tank. Second tank went from Omaha to Ellensburg, WA (100 miles east of Seattle). At $3.5/gal and 7 mpg, thats about $0.5/mile.

[@anthonykitchen6533]

Seems pretty stressful, good luck and stay safe. I got a coach and have learned a lot from your channel thanks

[@MotorcoachWorld]

I'm actually enjoying the adventure. There are a lot of stuff to figure out and planning doesn't always help because there are a lot of variables. But that's what I'm out here to document. Here to smooth bussing moving forward 😊

[@anthonykitchen6533]

@@MotorcoachWorld your doing a great job too. This oppressive heat makes everything look stressful, but how exciting it must be to be on the frontier of this development.

[@ChelaxIndustries]

Can’t wait for bureaucrats to watch these videos. Infrastructure isn’t there yet. Slow down on the mandates. Get realistic. Nice job sir on documenting your tour ! And the time. And the cost. And the feasibility.

[@BitcoinfunforBoomers]

More likely, they are watching the electric semi trials being done by Pepsico and others. Volvo, Peterbuilt, Tesla, and others have EV semis being used in real-world conditions and have been for probably a year now. Meanwhile Amazon is rolling out EV delivery vans as ICE vehicles wear out. I see them everywhere and they are popular with the delivery drivers.

[@hobog]

The Capilano Suspension Bridge shuttle in Vancouver is an exemplary short-haul battery coach, likely uses its own charging lot. That byd coach handles the incline

[@roberthansen2008]

I rode an electric bus that the Chicago Transit authority was testing out. I thought it was pretty neat. And it was nice and quiet and actually air conditioning worked really well on it better than a diesel bus that I was on for years and years. And CTAs got a few of the electric buses on a couple of their bus routes.

[@hobog]

They need to do trolleybuses. Battery ev's are much less efficient in the cold

[@ronaldsomlay2573]

Electric vehicles will never replace ice vehicles we don’t have the infrastructure and they’re just too costly to maintain batteries don’t degrade, so what happens to all the batteries once they’re depleted and can’t be used anymore they don’t just disappear and biodegrade. Nice idea though.

[@jeromebennett9154]

Spoken like someone who doesn’t own or has never driven an EV. Where do you think engines go after they aren’t used anymore, to a junkyard. Batteries can be recycled. And new batteries from the leading players like Tesla have been proven to hand 500,000 miles on the original pack

[@BitcoinfunforBoomers]

EV manufacturers design their batteries so they can be recycled.

[@hmsagbakken]

When Henry Ford made his first car, do you think it was petrol stations every where? And to tel you, no it was not. and the petrol stations had just one pump. And the pump was hand opperated or slow. Today the petrol stations have 10 pumps and the pumps are quite fast. When my parents bought their first EV, a Mitsubishi Miev, 12,5 years ago, that could drive 130km/80 miles when fylly charged. There was just a handful of EV fastchargers. Today ther are about every 20km/13miles and our VW ID4 can drive 500km/310 miles when fully charged and it takes about the same time to charge a ID4 from 10 to 80% as it tok 12 years ago to charge the MIEV from 10 to 80%. Slowly there wil come more and more fast chargers for trucks and buses (C%T). however it wil take some time to get a net of chargers for C&T however ther wil come no dedicated C&T chargers if ther are no EV C&T's and the other way. the problem is how fast it is possible to put electrisity into the battery and with todays tecnology, you can put twice the amount of electricity into a battery that is dubbel the size, so a bus with a battery that is 5 times that of a car would be able to charge 5 times the kwh. However at the moment there are no chargers that are able to deliver that amount of electricity, mostly because there are no demand for that type of charger yet.

[@berylwhite2983]

Good luck stay safe

[@blueeagletravelers1077]

Hi James, Edna coach driver in Georgia.

[@eddieflxible379]

On my Gillig, the most I’ve been getting on a 350kw charger has been around 274kw

[@becciandpaulaldridge]

Your signal is bad try moving away from the chargers

[@fullmotiondriver]

What is the charging curve? Cars typically charge at highest rate from a low state of charge and goes down to a very slow rate once reaching a certain rate of charge. Can be better to charge faster for less time but more often. Of course I don’t know how this might work for the bus.

[@MotorcoachWorld]

Yes same as cars. It slows down the change as the battery gets to about 80 percent. It does that to prevent damaging the battery

[@jameslashley3970]

Try climbing that hill with a loaded motor coach.

[@davidremy4470]

Hey James, enjoying your videos, keep up the good work. I think you took the comment from Joe Warren the wrong way, he wasn't offended by you or your video when he said he was " put off " about electric buses, he said that he was put off from buying electric buses due to the experience you were having and all the charging issues. Just wanted to clarify that as I think you took it the wrong way. I look at it this way, our electrical grid in the US has been given low marks by experts , so were gonna have to improve that , a lot, before we can go predominantly all electric. I think it will be a combination of alternative fueled vehicles . not a "one size fits all" type of a thing. Technology and innovation is gonna solve this problem. Good luck and safe travels !

[@Noble6233]

Electric bus fail. Dinosaur fuel undefeated.

[@hobog]

For long haul trips, diesel is better. For urban transit, batt-extended trolleybuses are supreme

[@vincenthprice2260]

So sorry for the charging units and the expense and disappointing range you get with the weight of the bus the incline of climbing the hills the inter-structure of limited charging station make your journey miserable

[@jameskerner7782]

What about the winter with cold and snow? Now, that would be interesting!

[@damon2364]

You said it had a hard time on that 6% grade and the coach was nearly empty. Being full of passengers with their luggage, would it have been even slower? Asking for a friend lol. I didn't get to see you pass thru Kettleman, my bad. Enjoy the journey. Damon

[@trevorritchie2575]

I'm a big fan of EVs but a double decker coach has got to be about the worst use case for going electric. Almost any other type of vehicle is better suited for electric, including school buses and city transit buses.

[@devenharvey1840]

I agree that ev school buses and local city transit would be the best fit for electric ....... Cross country may not be ready for electric until they come up with lighter weight batteries with a larger capacity

[@kingjames8283]

That is the whole issue concerning battery electric commercial motor vehicles, there is no infrastructure to support the technology and yet all these groups want to push us in the direction of EV's except they don't understand that time is money. Every minute spent sitting at a charging stations is a mile lost in valuable revenue. Maybe some day but not today.

[@BitcoinfunforBoomers]

When the interstate highway system was built, there was hardly any services at all - lucky if you could find a "Stuckey's" or "Nickerson Farms". Over time it built out to where there are services at most exits and we can drive gas and diesel without much thought. The Tesla supercharger network started at zero but is now built out to where Tesla owners can travel at will, though there are some remote parts of the country that take a little more planning. And they will continue to expand. The same will happen for commercial vehicles. The Tesla semi reportedly can charge up to 3.75 mega watts, which will enable an 80% charge to happen faster than going to the restroom and back.

[@stevec7793]

Does the bus use any type of regenerative braking to help with recharging?

[@thepaedophileprofit3062]

regenerative braking provides stuff all power back into an EV, you'd never notice any difference in the range with regenerative braking on or off. In a big vehicle like a bus theyd almost cerntainly have it if for no other reason just to slow the vehicle descending large hills without being to hard on the brakes, much the same as heavy vehicle like that have jake brakes running on diesel

[@stevec7793]

@@thepaedophileprofit3062 im very well aware of what it is and how it operates especially since i own a hybrid vehicle. Im also a retired truck driver and motorcoach operator and am quite well versed in diesel engine operations. Btw your name is very disturbing. Please do not send me any additional replies.

[@thepaedophileprofit3062]

@@stevec7793 lol says the guy who asked if it has regen brakes to help with recharging... Recharging requires the vehicle to be stationary whilst it is wired to a charging source, regen braking can only help with extending the range of a vehicle, recharging has to be done when stationary. The same could be said even if it was decked out with solar panels, they'd be range extending only unless the vehicle was stationary long enough for them to charge the battery. Your name sux too. So does your hybrid vehicle but a hybrid vehicle certainly matches the profile with your personality traits. wanker

[@jameskerner7782]

I don't think that this bus won't be running in NYC because the bus wouldn't fit in a lot overpasses are too short.

[@Noble6233]

How much charge dose the ac take away from the batteries.

[@fullmotiondriver]

Can you use Tesla superchargers?

[@MotorcoachWorld]

Unfortunately no. I can only use CSS plugs

[@jeffdumpster1470]

Nothing beats a diesel I drive school bus and we have propane, gas and 1 fancy electric for show. Maybe someday but not anytime soon.

[@peggyperk1231]

what about the extra cost to pay the driver to sit around every 150 miles for 2hrs plus?

[@wendellcrim8647]

How do you record Hours of Service while charging? On Duty not Driving?

[@MotorcoachWorld]

Yes, on duty not driving unless I'm going to leave the bus and go eat or something Then I go off duty

[@jameslashley3970]

Batteries are only good on golf carts.

[@MotorcoachWorld]

Lol the bus it's self is really nice. Performs well. Just wish there were more charging stations that could fit us and wish the chargers were more reliable

[@douglasengle2704]

I love this report! It is a lot of difficult going, but you are going!! StarLink should be working better than this. Maybe give them a call. Run SpeedTest from a laptop to see what kind of throughput you're getting before starting your live feed. If bad you might try restarting the StarLink system. There is a chance it is not StarLink, but your local wifi transmitter. The satellite part is StarLink, but the rest of the system might not be their equipment. If you've never seen a charge rate better than 140 kWh/hour with a charger suppose to do 350 kWh/hour you might find a car with below 50% SOC and is known to charge fast and ask if they could help you check if the bus is not allowing faster charging rates by swapping charging stations. Best if it's a retired looking person that can likely spare 15 minutes. It means you're going to end up with several purchase transactions, but its straightforward way to check if the low charging speed is due to in compatibility problems between the bus and the charging station. I think you said you've got the adapters to allow Tesla SuperChargers. Why not try one of those if you can. If you don't know for sure if the Tesla adapters are going to work don't push your range so far you can't get to a standard charger if the Tesla charger doesn't work. When somebody talks about charging the bus over night they likely mean by a home 240 VAC 50A outlet to the internal battery charger which is how people typically charge cars. They do about 10 kWh/hour. That works fine for BEVs that typically max out at 100 kWh battery pack and rarely need to full charge. The vast majority of BEVs rarely charge out of their driveways or garages. The BEV bus wasn't able to clime grades as well as the trucks. How was the BEV bus going down steep grades? Did you need to use some braking where it charged the batteries? One of the big advantages with the Tesla Semi is not only it can clime steep grades at the speed limit it can also go down steep grades with much more regenerative braking than a Diesel Semi has with its decompression engine brakes allowing Tesla Semi to go down grades much faster than a typical Semi. Can't wait for your next BEV bus report! Hope you're getting a good night's sleep and your family is taking the trip in stride.

[@angelica351a]

Is the starlink bonded? Is it mounted to the side of the bus? They should be able to set it so it goes between star and your phone 5g.

[@johnwright3710]

Try filling a Diesel bus for $42.00!

[@lybbwiz2080]

The hell is that lolll Bruh that’s not even giving the bus a quarter tank I believe 42$ is crazy a small 24 seater bus 200 $ to full up

[@douglasengle2704]

The ABC Van Hool double decker BEV has a battery of 676 kWh. They've only purchased 92.6472 kWh at $42 $0.46 per kWh. It would cost $276 to charge 600 kWh. When the battery is fully charged its only good for a range of 250 miles. A Tesla Semi at 82,000 pounds does about 1.5 X better on energy use with much better acceleration and has a maximum range of 500 miles. A Tesla Semi is likely charging over night at Pepsi ether from Tesla solar farm charged battery storage or off industrial power rates in Sacramento that is typically from hydropower and cheap maybe $0.05 kWh with off peak industrial rates. www.google.com/search?q=van+hool+double+decker+electric+bus+battery+size&sca_esv=551692229&source=hp&ei=My_DZJXoGfOQwbkPlZKs4A0&iflsig=AD69kcEAAAAAZMM9Q-bjASnq7LjyGSzT2QPyHkcjQfx-&oq=van+hool+double+decker+electric+bus+battery%C2%A0&gs_lp=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&sclient=gws-wizabout.

[@Lord_Corruption]

Try going 1,500 miles in an electric without stopping to recharge.

[@douglasengle2704]

@@Lord_Corruption Driving times for commercial drivers wouldn't allow driving 1,500 continues miles. The Tesla Semi is reported to daily travel 400 miles carrying Pepsi proceeds to be over night charged at Pepsi Sacramento CA regional factory. That works just fine. The Tesla Semi is able to clime steep grades at the speed limit and go down steep grades with regenerative braking able to allow safe down grades at the speed limit as well. That makes it much better on time and much cheaper to fuel at Sacramento CA hydroelectric industrial off-peak rates of $0.05 kWh than a Diesel. James is running a retrofitted tp be BEV Van Hool double decker bus where Van Hool is nearly a joke in the USA market when compared to MCI and Prevost.

[@kevinsnell1622]

Charging infrastructure and necessary protocols for motor coaches over the road is going to be a HUGE undertaking. Bus charging facilities in our most traveled tourism areas (that depend on buses) will be an eyesore for as big and numerous as they would need to be. From L.A to Arches National Park all across the southwest what is to be done? I’m open to whatever suggestions the electric vehicle proponents have. Do we build all the infrastructure then decide battery powered charter coaches are not viable considering the drawbacks? Then what? Do we rip it all out again. Charging facilities are going to be the next bane of the environmentally concerned public. I can only envision bus companies staging extra buses on a full charge at relief points. That would mean even more damage to the environment mining all the minerals to build all the batteries and imagine all the coal burning plants to produce the power. At this point this is VERY illogical. They can prove me wrong and I will eat my words. Oh and do these buses even have any luggage space or room for a lift? I’ve seen them with electronic gear all through the luggage bays. The diesel tour bus is here to stay. Charging is going to be on-duty time.

[@paulhall2133]

maybe record and upload later? the choppiness makes it super hard to watch. I know with my Tesla at least it will only charge at the highest speeds when the battery is low like between 20-50% and then starts slowing down as the charge increases towards 80-90 and the last 20% are extremely slow

[@robertfinley6288]

Hi James

[@devenharvey1840]

It might be better if they where able to get 300-500 miles to a charge ....... I personally am a big fan of electric i just dont know if the motorcoach industry is ready for it but you trolls need to understand this is only a trial run there is still alot of room for advancement in ev motorcoaches

[@poincareconjecture5651]

Do you think the country is ready for EVs?

[@davidjqualls]

You have a bad shoulder?

[@MotorcoachWorld]

I have a motor tik disorder. Had it since I was a kid. 😊

[@davidjqualls]

@@MotorcoachWorld oh, cool, no disrespect at first I thought there was a bee flying around you and you were just not breaking character while . filming. That I thought, maybe you were just cramping from having to drive that big thing I enjoy your posts!

[@MotorcoachWorld]

@@davidjqualls no worries. I like it when people ask. I used to be really self conscious about it but not as much anymore. I'm working on techniques on getting over it.

[@edsommers130]

Stream just ended

[@Deaftractor]

You should get CNG into diesel engine. Not electric. They won’t us customer buy parts for CNG. Only for commercial. Smh

[@fullmotiondriver]

Hello

[@christophercddelrosariocoish]

Hey James, sorry to point out that your video is stuttering a lot right now

[@tayagraynor9041]

Give me a shout outTy from Maine

[@mattd1512]

Electric is clearly not ready for commercial applications. Stick with diesel.. Passengers aren't going to set at a Walmart waiting for you to charge every 130 miles. :(

[@stevepackard8542]

You're were breaking up the entire video!

[@sgbradley16]

I hope your internet improves, seriously choppy.

[@MotorcoachWorld]

Yeah really sorry about that. Hoping for a better live stream tomorrow 😊

[@angelica351a]

EV bus blocks 5 chargers for 1 hour. Unless u are part of 'tesla' charging network all chargers are not or miss it they work, why build a doubleheader his with all that weight? Why do companies keep making electronic vehicles when there is no charging network to support them?

[@BitcoinfunforBoomers]

Why would anyone build a network of chargers if there are no vehicles to use them?

[@sunahamanagai9039]

Not surprising at all. From my experience with EVs, they suck.

[@Robert-Wilson]

Could not even watch the video. Sorry but can’t put up with the horrid choppy video and audio.