Mowalola Vs Saudi Arabia

[@shleep3928]

When it comes to people in the fashion community I hate the mindset where people think art should have no care for cultural context and should purposely go to piss someone off. But it CAN'T be critiqued at all or else people are "doing too much". Like be for real, do you want it to be controversial or not? And I don't think Mowa did it on purpose either but her response just made it seem like she was attempting to die on a hill she didn't even know she was standing on at first, so it seemed so pointless and something only being done because of ego not for "art" or a "message"

[@willthomas1342]

I just hate how people are saying Saudi Arabians and Muslim people are overreacting like whether Mowalola intentions were pure or not, their feelings are definitely valid. Like I understand art and being expressive but with being creative it also comes with researching and I think that’s where she failed at imo

[@ntsakomathebula4840]

As a Catholic I have been through the whole "their using our iconography and blaspheming". The Muslim community gotta get ready for the generation of westernized Muslims Designers, dont be shocked when they use Quran iconography and qoutes to sell tee shirts. I love fashion, but I had to get used to the consistent cringe of designers and brands using Cathedrals as runways, making sexualized references to religious orders such as priests and nuns, putting Our lady on underwear and overplayed reference of the Passion. My advice is learn to let it go, and find peace that these designers don't know shit, their ocean of references have the depth of a toilet basin.

[@crimnvL]

the thing is the haram police never sleep

[@LABRADOR904]

If you do something that is highly offensive to a group unwittingly (she says she didnt know what was written on the flag), you apologize. You weren't meaning to offend. You don't respond by saying "oh your beliefs and feelings are invalid, f-off." If you meant to do it...stand on it cause that is what you meant to do and you're prepared for the response.

[@ljbx8]

the quran isn't sacred to non-muslims. she can do whatever she wants with it; for most of us, it's just a book. we don't have blasphemy laws anymore so people getting butthurt about this is actually fascistic.

[@shleep3928]

Along with the freedom of expression people still have the freedom of speech. So people have as much of a right to voice their anger. If you want to piss some people off fine, but that doesn't mean everyone has to agree with it. If Mowa was on that timing then she wouldn't have ended up apologizing but alas...

[@itachi-kl5ei]

You must respect all holy books even if they do not concern you

[@Meganyeni]

Sis is a textbook Lagos babe. They do EVERYTHING for pseudo-clout.

[@11kindpunk11]

I think journalists and analysts of fashion should really grow a backbone especially when it comes to working with smaller designers that aren't owned by large conglomerates. Mowalola did absolutely nothing wrong. I'm a born Muslim and I'm ensuring this. There were many other country's flags on the show that aren't butthurt at all. But the SA people and other very easily butthurt Muslims are the ones being weird about it. The Arabic language IS another language and not at all holier than Latin, or Hebrew. So as a born and practicing Muslim I'm telling you this - your primary job as someone with a public platform is to strengthen the ground for independent artists and creatives smaller than Kering, LVMH or OTB. That's the bare necessity. I think Mowalola is pretty rad as a designer in general and nobody has to feel sorry for even wearing a g-string with SA flag. It's in fact very interesting and fits hidden cultural narratives in the Middle East where men only spaces often become beautifully homoerotic spaces. Things are a lot more nuanced than one may think and readily apologizing is a sign of bad art and cowardice. Do better.

[@mardiaslime]

i think outside of saudi nationalism which I agree is rubbish, it’s controversial due to Muhammad and Allah being used in the text, which (obviously youd know) are both sacred

[@11kindpunk11]

​@@mardiaslime yes they are considered sacred in Islam but so much creative freedom and all other freedoms are literally nipped in the bud because of such apologetic and conservative attitude. Like there are Muslims who aren't ready with a machete in their hands and can think, analyze, comment and move on with their lives and their faith intact. Eating shrimp, drinking wine, smoking, women driving cars, women showing ankles, men wearing pants below ankle - oh including women in leadership - are all prohibited and looked down upon with a calculated aftermath. Sounds weird? Because it is when people take these things too literally and entire nations, societies not being able to think critically because they can get away with it. Mowalola did nothing revolutionary but those of us who can see these attempts from Islamists and their allies must call it out. Of course understandably being born in a Muslim family gives me an upper hand in speaking out for freedom of expression. FoE is severely endangered in Islam dominant géographies.

[@Juststudiothings]

I agree. Similar bg but I’m no longer Muslim (or anything else.) I see the interesting dichotomy that this called out about Saudi.

[@_aw2001]

@@mardiaslimeIm still trying to figure out where i stand with this topic so definitely correct me if im wrong, but ive always believed that people shouldnt “respect” beliefs per say but rather should respect the individuals right to believe, i think religion as a whole should be able to be put under the pedestal of harsh critique (in pursuit of logical/ moral truth) and if mowa did this under the context of fighting inherent sexism within islam as a whole something like this would be viable. If done as a simple stunt for the sake of pissing others off though and being edgy, this is definitely uncalled for and most of all just poor art.

[@Amila-ym7ny]

As a muslim u should know the shahada is to be respected. What kind of muslim are you? Like jus saying youre muslim doesnt tell us if u pray 5x a day or read quran or study islam regularly

[@tomomo285]

the moment people started calling her a monkey and telling her to die over this she shouldn’t have apologized imo

[@skrawberrries]

thats why she said cry me a river, bc they were calling her that from the jump. before she even made a response they were calling her slurs so i got her it was just in poor taste

[@ChrisAndAurora2011]

I'm confused, Namilia had models walking down the runway in their "Sugar Daddy" collection with crosses and thongs. Was it edgy and offensive? Perhaps to some, but it pushed the envelope and it invited the audience to analyze and to discuss. Why is it okay to use Christian iconography but not muslim? I detest religious hypocrisy. Regardless of my feelings, fashion should be a space for free expression; it's a flag on a mini-skirt, get over it.

[@3up_hahapha]

christians from different sects have been attacking each other for centuries. ie protestants and catholics. christans have made a joke out each other and its very evident in gothic literature. "Why is it okay to use Christian iconography but not muslim?" well maybe thats because the europe has normailsed attacking christianity and esp catholism. muslims usually stick their ground and arent as leniant when it comes to using their religon in art.

[@nooreez2960]

Yes its a flag but it contains the words "there is no god but god and Mohammad is his messenger" just because christians allow people to disrespect their religion doesn't mean muslims should stay silent.

[@ChrisAndAurora2011]

@@nooreez2960 So? People should be able to talk about religion and not fear threats. Just because Muslims don't allow the freedom to critically discuss Islam doesn't mean Christians, Hindus, etc. can't...

[@ljbx8]

@@nooreez2960 wdym stay silent lmao the entire world doesn't cater to you, this is 2023 and we don't have blasphemy laws anymore. nobody is obliged to treat your mythology as sacred when it isn't for the majority of us.

[@Amila-ym7ny]

Im sure christians who actually practice were upset theres just less of them than practicing Muslims which is why it is disproportionate

[@PilarNarvaezalvarez]

Cry me a river for president

[@Kiannalee]

Art, ideally, convey a message. Great art has been produced with the purpose of pissing others off in order to convey a message. Nonetheless, it is my personal opinion that art with the main objective of upsetting others is probably one of the lowest forms of art when it’s done disingenuously. The initial statement by Mowalola has me leaning on the art being more disingenuous than actually conveying a sincere message. This idea is in line with First Amendment (free speech) laws in the United States. Not all speech is protected and one of those categories are fighting words or words imminently likely to provoke violence. I am not saying Mowalola’s work isn’t protect by free speech, but more so to express the development of my thoughts on the messaging of art. So there is more of a cultural aspect to this opinion.

[@shleep3928]

Exactly if someone calls another person an insulting word they can't be surprised if they get mad. Doesn't matter if it's "Freedom of speech" or you had good intent with it, thats not gonna make someone feel any less mad upon hearing it.

[@Neema150]

There is no bad publicity. Not being talked about at all is bad.

[@Neema150]

@joooooeeeeeee please try to understand that others success and happiness is not a threat to yours and how they got there only concerns them and those who contributed to it. It does not concern you. Loving and kindness is easy and natural anger and hate is not. Social media is not the problem.

[@Neema150]

@joooooeeeeeee glad for you that you know what is best for you.

[@Neema150]

@joooooeeeeeee I hope you do. A need is the mother of creativity and invention.

[@PERSONAIOS]

people in comments seems to don’t understand how much muslim people respect the Quran , they don’t even touch the Quran without performing wudu ( cleansing body with water ) and having shahada ( Islamic declaration of faith ) being on a skirt is the most offensive thing a designer could do . i feel this was for some shock value that backfired badly and the response wasn’t great either

[@mardiaslime]

i agree with everything but that it was intentional, given mowalola came out afterwards and clarified that she didnt understand the sanctity of the script used and apologized for its misuse. also her initial doubling down (dystopian comment) was misunderstanding that the outrage was about the contents of the flag rather than a flag that represents the country saudi arabia (though there was definite saudi nationalism mixed in there as well). i think people need to also understand that islam is not saudi and saudi is not islam. if the saudi flag had no sacredness associated with it, then i think it wouldnt be an issue for the artistic directive mowalola depicted. kind of goes down to the guest’s point that overall mowalola conducted poor research.

[@hoshi4042]

Following your logic, israel has the right to genocide the palestinians because the land is sacred to their religion (holy land) and the presence of palestinians offends them. "muhh it's disrespectful" islam disrespect (wishes death upon or discriminate against): jews, lgbtq, christians, pagans, atheists, women and most importantly ex-muslims. Your cult is not better than any of other cult, y'all need to do some introspection.

[@Titi-oh]

⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠@@mardiaslimeit definitely did seem intentional. The apology didn’t really seem sincere especially with the previous tweets I think she just mis measured the response.

[@comradeisco6651]

honestly who gives two shits about some “sacred” words. i didnt see anyone complaining about the use of the chinese flag. she was so real for this.

[@pagethreemodel]

Sis has got that 'idgaf' Nigerian energy. I love it😂

[@CognescentiNY]

Cultural Misappropriation at its finest. On another subject , I liked the Model Casting for this Mowalola Ogunlesi's show

[@FashionRoadman]

The casting was amazing!

[@fiftyclown]

mowa definitely did it on purpose, sis is besties with mr defcon 3000 himself i mean

[@zae_2hot]

7:00 Yeah me personally I don't understand how a person could conjure up the thought of hate commenting on a persons video. Like critiquing is something good and positive comments are obviously good. But to flat out just personally attack a person is like the most confusing thing to me about comments.😂😂

[@HumbleOpinions]

That PR apology was very boneless

[@ariana9941]

Art should be controversial, no one is entilted to anything

[@FashionRoadman]

I don’t think art should be controversial just for the sake of it. If it’s a protest or the creator is trying to highlight certain issues (Alexander McQueen did this really well) I think it’s definitely valid. Everything is fair game but the intent is important. For example, in this case I don’t think Mowalola set out to offend. Would it be a good idea to celebrate racism, slavery, the holocaust etc just for the sake of controversy? I would argue absolutely not. Context is everything.

[@ariana9941]

@@FashionRoadman art can be whatever it is, and if it's controversial then so be it. Maybe what I tried to meant was that art should be itself, and if it offends then it is like that

[@FashionRoadman]

I see what you mean and I definitely agree. Art offending isn’t even an issue for the most part. Even just having thoughts is offensive to some people because no matter how you think there will be someone out there that disagrees with you. However, I do think there are certain things that art should steer away from like the examples I gave in my comment earlier. The issue here was more with her response.

[@akram9744]

Its just lazy and boring, when you’ve got nothing to say and just try to be edgy. It is art, not good art though. 🤷‍♂️

[@3up_hahapha]

and art can be critiqued. so expect different responses

[@woahisit]

It was completely disrespectful, and deficiently spiteful because they responded with such bad taste. The apology only came after FarFetch pulled her collection from the website lol

[@henry-yx8pn]

Nahh, my girl did nothing wrong! She does the same with a lot of different iconography. Why it should be different only because with is muslim iconography

[@PERSONAIOS]

it’s not about the text used but where it is taken from .

[@FashionRoadman]

I don’t think she did anything necessarily wrong with the designs themselves because I don’t think she designed it with the sole intent of offending people (this is my guess it’s not like I know her), it’s more the response to the criticism. I don’t think her initial intent was in the wrong place. Plus, she admitted to not knowing what was written on the Saudi Flag or the symbolism of it. Two things can be right simultaneously.

[@RR-ob8ze]

It’s 2024, everything is fair game, don’t like it , cry me a river. Honestly. I’m sure there’s memes on everything everywhere nowadays are we seriously expected to take anything seriously these days?

[@HS-ie8tj]

You severely underestimate how proud and protective Muslims are of their religion. They are not pathetic Christians.

[@jonbelbawlout]

she should’ve never apologized lol. it’s so minor of a discretion with literally no spite or ill will behind it. i think you have to go out of your way to take any genuine offense to this

[@antoningoumand1978]

People nowadays are so lazy sourcing their images and the symbology / meaning, if you throw random stuff on garments don’t be surprised u’ll be pointed out and critiqued lmao.

[@z1novas]

I’m of the opinion that religion can be critiqued, but at least do so in a respectful manner. But at the same time, just because we’re in a time where Christianity and Catholicism has been trivialised by the west so much, doesn’t mean it should extend to any other religion. I don’t like it when Hollywood or otherwise trivialises Christianity and Catholicism with all the engagement bait and outrage marketing. I wouldn’t like it done to Islam either, or any other religion. There will be people that say the hijab is ‘oppressive’ but when a luxury company makes something that’s 95% similar (look up Jenna Ortega’s outfit when she got interviewed by The People’s Gallery) people eat it up. Come on now. People need to be consistent

[@satanlucifer4437]

As an atheist and anti-theist, I find the idea of “sacred” iconography to be pretty ridiculous and the rules surrounding it are restrictive and regressive. So I take no issue with Mowalola’s pieces or their initial response to the controversy (“cry me a river”). Intention of the artist is what matters imo, and it seems they were not intending to be controversial and were instead just plain ignorant and fully walked back on any form of criticism their pieces could have represented. What puzzles me is that they opted to adopt the ignorant “I didn’t know better” defense rather than substantiate their edginess with conviction and intention “I wanted to make a commentary by challenging these rules of Islam / SA that I disagree with as an artist”. That’s where they really went wrong in my opinion

[@HS-ie8tj]

Atheists have no decorum or respect for others confirmed lmao edge Lord

[@belaokmyx5196]

1:36 yk damn well everyone would not have moved on lol

[@_solange]

Nah. Si vas a lanzar algo sobre algo que no conoces a fondo, investiga un poquito ¿no? Y acepta que te equivocaste. Yo también me molestaría con esa respuesta pendeja. Cry me a river? More like Grab a book.

[@hhhenge]

using something that is of importance to a culture, such as a flag, and then not doing the research to make sure you're not putting your foot in it is crazy. Shows some kind of entitlement imo

[@ariana9941]

Not to add that the only community where art cant fully express itself is when it is about islam, you can see jesus naked in bdsm but lord if islam is just 'too far' Even cases of sole defenders of freedom of speech trey and matt from south park were censored This is in addition of my previous comment, not the collection

[@xaviergreaux869]

So then your problem is the fact that a specific community responds to controversy. Because similar to anything can be art and that should be alright, anybody should then be free to respond as they see fit. I think the designer just didn’t know and then said “cry me a river” and they sent a flood 🤷🏾‍♂️

[@ariana9941]

@@xaviergreaux869 thing is, islam often responds with violence as it has been the case for many artists.

[@mardiaslime]

@@ariana9941ohhh so youre just an islamaphobe

[@acex222]

@@xaviergreaux869 Muslim nations will issue death warrants against you if you offend their paedophile prophet.

[@tandekabottoman9386]

​@@ariana9941 It is permissable in islam to respond with violence when Allah or Muhammed are disrespected . Muslims still actually believe in their religion unlike Christians who allow disrespect if their God

[@Orbitinbloom19018]

And mowalola wins

[@woahisit]

her collection got pulled so...

[@Orbitinbloom19018]

@@woahisit its about the cultural statement. The fact that she spoke up against organised religion and its totalitarian control made her a winner

[@woahisit]

@@Orbitinbloom19018 disrespecting a religion followed my millions of people world wide is a old tired low! we see it everyday with artists desecrating the image of Jesus, it's tacky! why not comment of issues closer to home e.g. Gentrification?

[@Orbitinbloom19018]

@@woahisit it wasnt intentionally disrespectful. That’s tacky and old. But thinking the whole world should bow down to your god is moronic.

[@ariana9941]

Yo this is new

[@FashionRoadman]

It’s quite an old story we just happened to mention it in the stream in a wider conversation about how designers respond to criticism 🌟

[@ariana9941]

​@@FashionRoadman yes I meant the video

[@Thrasher610]

dang, she might get cancelled for that response...this is a big design flaw for someone outside of the semetic ethos. I come from East Orange New Jersey, An African American Muslim community. she can be forgiven but shes gonna have to "say sorry". and not say it, shes gotta do "sorry"....ya get meh?

[@Thrasher610]

this is actually a big flaw on her end. we talk about not putting arabic on clothing in Islam. its edgy for men, women really arent suppose to do it.

[@mowalolaTV]

LOL. Those who cnt do , critique. Happy to give u life. What else u go’n talk about.

[@youngchino525]

Why you so hurt for it’s just a opinion lmao shouldn’t u be working on another collection

[@Jose-cb4tw]

Why are you so butt hurt

[@mowalolaTV]

@@Jose-cb4tw cry me a riverrrrrr

[@UnrealOcean]

@@Jose-cb4tw so a person gets to say anything they want about you and you don't get to say anything back? its true those who cant do critique. (make a job out of critiquing others) it is what it is.

[@papersculptureslooklikesta2793]

Get over yourself and keep creating. If you can’t handle even the softest of criticism then it’s clear you’re not creating for yourself. Get real.

[@datapepple8024]

Forever your fan lol. Love being the first commenter! 😁

[@FashionRoadman]

❤️