MP48: When SIG Cheaps Out

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[@alexdemoya2119]

This gun looks like a swiss engineer was dragged by his ankles to design a "simple" gun, and he undermined that goal every step of the way. its whiplash, the gun.

[@donaldoehl7690]

The sights are better than on some battle rifles.

[@thetalesofdaneandco]

Sounds like something out of Elbonia as well.

[@DinnerForkTongue]

Swiss engineering + malicious compliance.

[@DinnerForkTongue]

@@thetalesofdaneandco I dunno, this doesn't look nearly janky and trashy enough to be Elbonian.

[@andersjjensen]

@@thetalesofdaneandco The disturbing lack of speed holes and awkward grip angle makes this waaaay too conservative for Elbonia...

[@themeatpopsicle]

The key takeaway is that the MKPS has likely been on Ian's lap for the entire day of filming

[@masterimbecile]

And he lovingly strokes it and whispers to it in tiny squeaky voices and gives it all kinds of cute animal names

[@duo496]

It’s his emotional support MPKS

[@Name-ps9fx]

If I had one, I'd have it on my lap!

[@alexr.5389]

Jesus' baby.

[@parkerottoackley6325]

Lol 👍👍that's Ian

[@GeFlixes]

"Cheap out gun"... Other countries: Wood screws and cut off bar stock as a cocking handle The Swiss: Kept the serialized screws and use locking screws. I think the Swiss have d different definition of "economized" than everyone else.

[@Zretgul_timerunner]

Economized if the cheapest option was gucci vs dior

[@NapoleonGelignite]

A cup of coffee cost 8-10 dollars in Switzerland - ‘cheap’ means something different there.

[@troyjardine5850]

This is the same country where "knife" means knife + everything else needed to live

[@monster2slayer]

@@NapoleonGelignite 4$, but i get your point

[@bonzeblayk]

drooling

[@tombogan03884]

SIG engineers, being Swiss, must have needed therapy after designing that simple a gun.

[@craighansen7594]

I actually like the simplicity of the "reduced cost" firearms, provided they still function well.

[@misterdeluxia5948]

agreed, theres a beauty in utilitarian stuff

[@itsapittie]

That's what I was thinking. It's not particularly elegant but there's no reason it shouldn't work well.

[@houseofsolomon2440]

Not sure why, but I have a weak spot for simple/reduced-cost smg's...

[@mattandrews8528]

Nothing like a “blemished” full AR15 pistol from Palmetto State Armory for only $500-550 👍 they’re always solid awesome guns. Highly recommend as a first buy.

[@itsapittie]

@@mattandrews8528 "Blemished" just means it already looks like what it would look like anyway after a couple of range sessions.

[@jasnix]

I sympathize with the SIG engineers that got worn down into designing this from the MKPS and MKMS.

[@k3D4rsi554maq]

Anyway, they did a great job.

[@exuberance3973]

How does someone make such an abomination yet with so much quality and class?

[@AmethystRebellion]

Tons of trial and error 👍🏻

[@Slithermotion]

My mother has been asked this alot.

[@DinnerForkTongue]

Dedication. And stubbornness.

[@vladpiranha]

"With style, mon ami, with style."

[@vega1287]

i think that's the difference between swiss and japaneese engineering, where the swiss start at the top and reduce it until it still meets the requrements the japaneese start with a product that meets them and then they see how can they improve the product aswell as the manufacturing process

[@TheRuinsfate]

"You can see they didn't even bother to finish machine the outside" I wonder how much it hurt the SIG workers to let it leave the factory like that?

[@CL-vz6ch]

twitching

[@Bear10174]

like getting punched in the soul every time. I bet they are glad it wasn't a huge success so they didn't have to make a lot of them.

[@ianfinrir8724]

The union almost called a strike over that.

[@johncaccamo]

I think they stole the guns for sale when the machinists were at lunch.

[@TonyTylerDraws]

As someone who has done freelance graphic design work, I sympathize "do this but cheaper yet the same quality."

[@c1ph3rpunk]

Exists all over: “we want a multi-million dollar security program but can only spend $500k”. That’s almost a direct quote. Answer: “I’m sure you do, good luck!”

[@notahotshot]

@@c1ph3rpunk I know it's a movie, but in Jurassic Park John Hammond repeatedly says, "Spared no expense.", yet he hired one guy to design, implement, and manage his entire computer system. 🤣

[@c1ph3rpunk]

@@notahotshot #truestory ;-)

[@AshleyPomeroy]

@@notahotshot And there was just one guy supervising the dinosaurs. Phil Tippett. If only Ingen had given him some help.

[@zacharyrollick6169]

@@Stevie-J I always pray that they don't choose fast and good. That's my least favorite combination.

[@Gojiro7]

that is easily the nicest looking "budget" gun I have ever seen :3

[@donaldoehl7690]

I like the folding mag feature. For a "cheap" SMG it's still a long way from the STEN. Nice gun, though.

[@Adierit]

personally i see the folding mag as wasted resources, since not including it would make the gun simpler, even cheaper, and the storage size of the gun isn't affected too much in reality since you can still just stuff it loose between the barrel in any form of container you'd ship these in. that and the adjustable windage front sight block with a diagonal dove tail, with a weapon like this i think if you're far enough away to be worrying about windage you're being a bit optimistic. those two changes in machining would probably reduce the unit cost quite a bit. also a cast receiver could potentially reduce labor on making these, since wood can't be cast and has to be worked by hand to fit each and every gun a lot more then slight filing would be on a close enough cast receiver

[@ihcfn]

@@Adierit They're Swiss, I'm sure it hurt them simplifying it this much! 😁

[@kowell]

"cheap" for the swiss is not the same as "cheap" for every one else. We said we wanted something cheap! Well yes, we took out 2 screws and 1.piece of metal, anything more and it would just be too vulgar.

[@AmstradExin]

@@Adierit Who says 'cheaper' is even a word in Swiss vocabulary. (:

[@salty-he5jt]

The folding mag well did it for me too

[@alaskanbullworm5500]

Mp48: I’m cheaper now! Sten: that’s cute

[@scarfaceAC2]

The Sten is "Oh fuck, the Germans are coming!" In gun form

[@bronnl5482]

i got it: its actually a gem of hidden ingenuity a la swiss knife - you take a grip off and you got a survival axe, mag well is a bottle opener etc etc

[@randymagnum143]

Closer, but could probably have 10 M3A1 grease guns to every one of these.

[@davydovua]

I initially thought more than that, but calculations show that surprisingly, the Swiss guns might've actually been not that expensive. Was able to find the Finnish procurement costs, in 1940 the MKMS in 9mm was priced at about 380 Swiss franks. The exchange rate at that time is hard to find and verify plus adjust for wartime inflation, but in 1945 it was 4.3CHF for $1, so $88 per a more sophisticated gun, the cheaper version like the MP48 would've probably cut about 30-40% of the cost, so we can place it at about $50 per gun. For comparison, M1921 Thompson was well over $200, and the cheapest M1 Thompson got to was about $45. The "Grease gun" was about 15 bucks, so nope, not 10, only about 3 M3A1s. BTW. Thanks for giving me the idea of how to entertain myself on the Internet for a good half an hour :3

[@randymagnum143]

@@davydovua I know that as production ramped up, unit cost went down.would be interesting to see Ithacas mid 50's contract to see what unit cost was. One thing nice about the Swiss gun is the replaceable firing pin. The M3 had to replace the entire bolt, which was about $2.

[@stormthrush37]

@@davydovua Interesting stuff! Thanks for taking the time to run and share your calculations.

[@hypethekomodo6495]

According to what I could look up on this weapon, even with SIG trying to cheapo the gun it still was of superb quality and still expensive to produce. I just find it funny when they try to budget a design it still ends up of higher quality than the standard.

[@andersjjensen]

SIG: A company that has failed many times for the only allowable reason to fail.. "It's too good. We need something worse!"

[@michaelathens953]

I love these episodes where I see the thumbnail and go "wtf is that?"

[@pyroclastictomato3278]

The folks at Morphy's: "So why does the MKPS have to stay on your lap for the entire video when it's not even about it?" Ian: "Shh, just let me have this."

[@jay-firstofhisname]

These sig folding magazine designs are so cool lol.

[@alwayscensored6871]

Best part of these designs.

[@sicsempertyrannis4613]

I don't know why but I love open bolt smgs from the 1930s-1990s. If machineguns ever become legal I would have a huge collection of tube guns...

[@scareraven9669]

In America, can’t you have a machine gun as long as you do enough paperwork and stuff? Or are you from a country with stricter gun laws?

[@DH-xw6jp]

@@scareraven9669 in a America the machine gun has to have been manufactured and registered before 1986, and there are limited quantities of those avalible. So they go for quite a high price plus a bunch of red tape regulations.

[@sicsempertyrannis4613]

@@scareraven9669 Well, I guess I could buy one for a ridiculous amount of money and delay my savings for retirement/emergency

[@jd_the_cat]

Don’t worry, if I become president, I’ll legalize machine guns.

[@marvindebot3264]

Less finished yes but still beautifully made to a high standard.

[@michaelathens953]

Yeah even when they cheap out the product still has that classic, ageless hardwood furniture. Classy!

[@realhorrorshow8547]

"SIG Cheaps Out". Still bougie.

[@calvingreene90]

The folding magazine as a safety is great.

[@zacharyread5303]

I hope we see a range video with this beautiful abomination tomorrow.

[@matthewshaffer9377]

Folding guns are always a treat!

[@weaponizedemoticon1131]

Holy cow. Adjustable windage front sight, four elevation rear sight, serialized locking screws, beautifully nested wire stock. I imagine those four parts alone were more expensive than a whole Sten.

[@Jreb1865]

And yet the Sten was a success...

[@muhammadnursyahmi9440]

@@Jreb1865 Sten gun are quickly discarded by the Brits after WW2, and quickly replaced by Sterling SMG, which are excellent open-bolt SMG IMO. Sten are cheap and easy to mass produce, but the magazine are terrible and the Brits know it too. They just don't replace it during wartime as they need lots of guns to fight the Germans.

[@abigailmcdowell4248]

this one of the most aesthtiaclly interesting submachine gun I've seen on this channel

[@dreamingflurry2729]

Even when they "cheapen out" they still make a beautiful gun, with a great finish, great quality over all! So yeah, me want :) (but can't have...German gun laws prohibit fully automatic weapons in civilian hands unless you are a bodyguard or something like that, then the company you work for might be allowed such guns!)...great vid, thanks Ian :)

[@willgillies5670]

Totally agree, that wooden pistol grip is a nice touch.

[@thealandude9146]

Yeah that gun looks really good

[@ambivalentonion2620]

semi auto convert is possible in germany? we do this in italy

[@jannishansoonn]

I feel you brother I wanna have an functioning mp40 sooo bad

[@infernaldaedra]

Nah germans shouldn't be allowed to have guns

[@JeSsSe66]

The gun might have been seen in those days as "cheap" but compared to today its quality of craftsmanship is amazingly executed

[@drdoom-skull2244]

The MAT 49 looks uncannily similar. Do you know if the French arsenals would have bought a few of these for trials?

[@Tekdruid]

Absolute nightmare to field strip.

[@WhattAreYouSaying]

Suomi KP-31: "Hold my recoil spring" Edit; I explain this lame joke: The Suomi is also a nightmare to field strip. When I did it on mine, my hair turned grey when I tried to get the recoil spring back in place. I will never do that again!

[@cmck472]

That was the first thing I thought as well! I can't believe I had to scroll this far through the comments to find someone else who thought that.

[@HappyMan0203]

It's like a goofy looking version of an MP40, I love it. It's got a lot of charm and character it.

[@boinguss]

@@FlymanMS an smg you can feel good about liking

[@politirel2]

That is a lovely chunky gun.

[@k3D4rsi554maq]

Yes, it certainly is!

[@arvidrurenga]

you vs the guy she tells you not to worry about

[@vladpiranha]

Perfecting and over-engineering old technology after obsolescence - classic SIG.

[@MrMiguella]

I have an Irish coffee in front of me and I pick my phone up to check the time and Ian is here with another random smg

[@britjohnson1990]

I greatly appreciate Ian's work over the years, I ts has brought be so much interesting history and mechanics. I really wish he was able to show how the progressive trigger worked on this model, There are many types of trigger semi auto disconnects and I love to see how they work. Thank you Ian

[@magamike1800]

One of the coolest sub guns i have ever seen.

[@commoncriminal923]

@Frisca-28🔞⤵️ some Turkish village traditional music lyric trash and prozzies for sale??? SOUNDS LIKE A LOVELY DAY OOT

[@aidanfarnan4683]

*Heartfelt American Story:* My Sister's Keeper *Heartfelt Swiss story:* My Screw's Seralised Keeper Screw.

[@johnpots4181]

I never thought I would get to see a real world Fallout 4 pipe pistol

[@patrickw9520]

1940s SMGs... so many lessons learned.

[@chuckbridgeland6181]

Even cheaped out it looks nicely done.

[@GundamReviver]

This is 100% the engineer being told to cut bits off his masterpiece. Its like asking him to cut bits off his wife.. Because this thing is many things, but not nearly anyway where near "dead cheap" like a sten

[@muhammadnursyahmi9440]

To be fair, Sten gun are designed when UK were pretty desperate for any guns at all. Although, they do reject S&W Light Rifle, because the gun is flawed and too expensive for mass production.

[@someweirdguyew9757]

@@muhammadnursyahmi9440 The Sten was also designed so any dingus with diagrams and a machine shop can churn the things out. You can literally buy a metal billet on ebay that comes wrapped in the diagram for the cuts and holes you need to make to turn it into a Sten receiver.

[@duncanmcgee13]

"When Sig cheaps out" not something i thought I'd ever hear

[@jubuttib]

This gun is very endearing to me, quality work all around, just less of it than SIG would usually want. Then I saw the polymer stocked variant (older FG video on the SIG 310)... That one does not spark joy.

[@MrEvan312]

Getting a gun THIS simple out of Sig must've been like pulling teeth: it's still oddly beautiful and looks so well put together. Can you imagine the emotional damage you could inflict on a Sig engineer if you showed them a later pattern of a Sten SMG?

[@WeWillAlwaysHaveVALIS]

Wow what a tidy bit of kit! I'd certainly like to get my hands on one!

[@JETWTF]

That's actually a really nice design for the times. Looks like a decent compact SMG and probably would have been perfect as a personal defense weapon for logistics.

[@kj3n569]

I started watching and was unsure, strange thoughts and feelings running through my mind. What is happening, why do I feel happy and almost sad at the same time? Why is it that when Ian says "Sig" during this video my mind immediately begins to doubt? I've heard Ian say Sig dozens, maybe hundreds of times, but never felt like this before. At the end it all became clear. When Ian said "polymer" I realized that what I was feeling was love, young love, and the thought of this little wooden stocked beauty dressed in polymer like a cheap hussy made me feel very protective. If only I could have her she would always be in wood, beautiful wood, and always look like this. Just like one of my spearguns. But different. And cooler. I like it. Very different for Sig, but you can appreciate the quality by the choices made to produce it "cheaper", yet it still has an attention to detail that makes it classy. I'm going to look this one up, even though I already know it's way out of my price range, at least if I want to put fuel in the truck for the next year. Damn it.

[@matthayward7889]

Can’t beat a folding magazine well. Along with a top mounted magazine, it’s an instant like from me!

[@Jay-mv7xv]

Great review! Really enjoy seeing such history! Also glad you have time to continue these great reviews, and time to do things with Inrange TV, and pursue all your competitions! Keep up all your great content!

[@Gali80f]

Always a pleasure to watch your videos

[@jesserivera9704]

now THATS a forgotten weapon! wow! please direct me to the rock this thing was jammed beneath all these years.

[@Rickinsf]

The windage adjustment is genius.

[@MPC_2117]

It's like asking Mercedes to build a cheap compact city car. It'll be expensive and no one will like it! 🤣

[@PrototypeSpaceMonkey]

Smart ForTwo?

[@burnerheinz]

@@PrototypeSpaceMonkey which is ironically Swiss

[@tortron]

I still see a few A classes driving around

[@PrototypeSpaceMonkey]

@@burnerheinz No, it's 100% German. Although Hayek did pitch the original idea, Daimler-Benz designed the prototypes and provide most of the funding, and when they couldn't agree about the drivetrain, Daimler-Benz bought out SMH completely before production even began. It's a straight-up Mercedes, always was.

[@SayakMajumder]

That title though ... :D

[@jerkfudgewater147]

Fantastic editing on this one

[@KwangTheMongrel]

I love the concept of the sights. So simple.

[@f1nnedits996]

Great video Ian! I’m a huge fan

[@MrHepcat34]

Simple yet still elegant. Looks fun to shoot!

[@dinomasterjonas7799]

Strange gun for sure, and considering it was developed on the cheap, I am super impressed by how well cared for this piece is. Very clean, very well maintained and it received a lot of love.

[@comiketiger]

Interesting! Ian is a treasure. Thank you . God bless all here.

[@LukeBunyip]

0:26 Do you need to click your heels as well? Asking for an Elbowian friend.

[@gustavmeyrink_2.0]

1:50 that receiver in the picture looks cast. Casting is much cheaper and less strong than forging. 3:43 The upper one in the picture looks forged and machined, the bottom crudely (for Switzerland!) cast.

[@KC-bg1th]

God, I fucking love the look of this gun.

[@bushmansa518]

I have waited to see this for a very long time, incredible piece of Swiss.

[@natef.5880]

It's gorgeous!!! A work of art 🎨

[@tomaspabon2484]

"cheap" Progressive trigger, Folding magwell, collapsing stock, locking screws and fine windage adjustable sights. The swiss are a weird bunch

[@Almightyrastus]

All that simplification and cost cutting, yet it still sounds very much Swiss - gut n tight

[@roflchopter11]

Gotta love "Ye Olde" PDW rails for the stock.

[@thezieg]

Thanks for "Showing Us Its Features!!"

[@PajamaPantsStudios]

That’s a pretty gun

[@k3D4rsi554maq]

Indeed, it is.

[@mikeclardy5689]

Ian, you REALLY love that MKPS.

[@davidegaleotti94]

Next up, on "Cursed gun images":

[@maxdavies5776]

Ceramic cabonite is set in a high tolerance mould by ultra sonics. Bakalite carbon fiber chopped strand & ceramic microball goo. Most decent weapons . But ideal for this swiss one. The barrel is checked for tolerance & honed as required as with all parts giving a very quick cheap & effective durable machine. - combustion motor 1/2 price 1/2 time & lasts 3x longer.

[@derekbowbrick6233]

It is resurrection week. Gun Jesus brings the past back to life.

[@rslover65]

I've never understood the tangent sights on 9mm sub guns. 500 yards? Yeah, right.

[@markbecht1420]

Suppressive fire. A .22 will keep your head down.

[@fg42t2]

300

[@rslover65]

@@fg42t2 just as irrelevant

[@rslover65]

@@markbecht1420 if you just want to spray and pray you don't need fancy sights

[@tomahawk1911]

I would get more use out a two position rear sight, close and far. 50yard/100 yard. Maybe a large aperture, then if the light is good enough, a flip up smaller aperture for longer range.

[@jm9371]

LOL, I like how the screws and even the WOOD pistol grip have a serial number.

[@donaldt3330]

It looks like the gun in Flight 714 of Adventure of Tintin.

[@james.1980]

The gun guy, caught using an I'll fitted screwdriver for gunsmithing.

[@JasonLihani]

HK: "Ze always cheap out."

[@clownworld4655]

Seems like a massive upgrade from stuff like the sten or grease gun for being a “cheap” smg

[@TheCatBilbo]

Ah, but this is 'Swiss cheap'!

[@dd11111]

That tab that connects to the pistol grip, kina' makes me think of the tang on a knife or messer.

[@DualDesertEagle]

Ok, I was expecting something along the lines of "cheap for the swiss is still hella expensive" but the "tell them u want it cheaper and simpler but 4 times in a row" thing made me *_LMFAO!_*

[@Russianmafiaman]

And now the Sig 300 series is their newest handgun line

[@charliemccutcheon6030]

SiG: "please just let us make you something nice"

[@markmaugle4599]

Really like the safety design.

[@frostthenord3942]

SIG making something cheap? Never thought i would ever hear those 2 word in the same sentence.

[@Ugly_German_Truths]

Oh whow, even fieldstripping this thing is hard work... the development of the pin fixed receivers must have been a godsent to soldiers all around the world... especially when it's captive pins.

[@louiswilkins9624]

Very nice cheap 🔫. Engineer definitely cried.

[@Shunyaisbae]

The Swiss knows how to make guns with good looks

[@hoppityhares2597]

The longer you watch the more serialised parts you find

[@ukaszwalczak1154]

Logical conclusion, i mean, MP18, MP28, MP38, and finally the MP48.

[@alfredmarcos1761]

This looks like something someone would use in the apocalypse

[@AgiHammerthief]

missed opportunity to sharpen the grip holder as emergency axe.

[@oliverstianhugaas7493]

"Folding magazine" Christ they told you to make it simple.

[@420BulletSponge]

Surely the fire rate is lower then the previous Sig SMG you took to the range. 1350 rpm in that little package would be a handful.

[@sandemike]

In the British Infantry the SMG has has always been a secondary weapon a bit like the american M1 carbine. This gun would have been great for tank crews,Medics, signalers , cooks and others. As a medic I had to carry an SA80 which was a pain in the neck when trying to treat or evacuate casualties.Was sad to say goodbye to my Sterling.

[@mallardofmodernia8092]

Its design looks beautiful.

[@rasheverak]

I love that they cut the safety before they cut the serialized screws.