SIG MKPS: Possibly the Most Beautiful SMG Ever Made

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SIG began making SMGs in the 1920s with a licensed copy of the Bergmann. In 1927 the license expired, and they began working on their own designs, the first of which was introduced as the Modell 1930. This was replaced in 1933 by a design from SIG engineer Gotthard End, using Pal Kiraly’s lever-delayed blowback mechanism. This was the MKMO or MKPO, with the military (M) long barrel or police (P) short barrel. It was chambered for 9x25mm Mauser, and was made to beautiful, exacting standards as one would expect of 1930s SIG. However, this made it expensive, and the 9x25mm cartridge never really caught on. In 1937 the design was simplified to the MKMS or MKPS, now using a simple blowback mechanism and offered in 7.63mm Mauser, 7.65mm Parabellum, and 9x19mm Parabellum. The example we have today is a 9x19mm MKPS.
Even in this less expensive form, the guns were really not successful. Only 1,228 were made of all models combined, with the most notable buyers being the Vatican Swiss Guard and Finland (who bought 282 in March-June 1940). Mechanically, they have several excellent features, including folding magazine wells for storage and several integral mechanical safeties. The trigger will not function if the receiver endcap is not fully screwed on, and it cannot be unscrewed unless the manual safety is engaged. They do not have a semiauto function, however.
Contact:
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[@maxkronader5225]

"It's Swiss, so naturally the screws are held in place by retaining screws and serialized." Having a few Swiss firearms, I can relate to that sentiment!

[@dallesamllhals9161]

But does it work - if no mountains around?

[@alpineredneck7083]

this is the only possible way :-)

[@NikeaTiber]

...but what holds the retaining screw in?

[@ZOV24-2-22]

@@NikeaTibera double retaining screw……

[@toofar7493]

That is incredible manufacturing work and even crazier to think it was done in 1939. Also the obsession to serialize every part is crazy. I do love how they took one of the most simple machine guns and over engineered it.

[@Brookspirit]

1939 wasn't the dark ages, earlier Victorian engineering is also fantastic.

[@georgegonzalez-rivas3787]

"Over engineering" is not a good thing (unless you're a collector). For the war effort it is a massive waste. Take, for instance, German Tiger Tanks -- they were hugely over engineered - especially compared to their opposing Soviet tanks. But the combat life of any tanks was remarkably short. So why spend all that time making every weld and gear perfect when the thing would be blown up soon? The story is German engineers inspected an early-capture Russian T-34 and walked away laughing and its crude design and sloppy fit and finish. But this allowed the russians to make a thousand of them for every Tiger tank. You need "appropriate engineering". Not over engineering.

[@Tony.795]

@@georgegonzalez-rivas3787 The soviet example is the other end of the spectrum. They had to pour massive efforts and resources into tank production as well because they lost them so quickly. The ratio was 1:4 in Germanys favour.

[@STG44musikmeister]

The Swiss are gonna Swiss.

[@brass427]

@@STG44musikmeister Merci viel mol!

[@fernandoruiz7713]

There’s something so gorgeous about a gun that follows the rule of “less moving parts is more reliable” but still manages to be unique and genius is so many small ways

[@tavshedfjols]

fewer

[@EtherFox]

It really doesn't follow that idea, though. It's reliable because it's well made, but as far as blowback SMGs are concerned, it has about twice as many parts, moving and otherwise, than others.

[@AshleyPomeroy]

@@tavshedfjols "a more smaller amount"

[@liamg9410]

@@tavshedfjols bro pulled out the thesaurus on him. "TAVSHED journeys" out here

[@aidensidk3273]

Nice reference

[@ianfurqueron5850]

Neat gun. For anyone interested, this is Lot #1010 in the May 18, 2022 auction. Estimated at $20-30K, which seems really low for such a rare, registered gun in a popular cartridge.

[@tomaspabon2484]

Interest in Swiss firearms is surprisingly low. They're consistently well made, beautiful and interesting in operation.

[@hugebartlett1884]

@christhorpejunction8982 Almost impossible to find a gun in this country that actually works. Other than the HK's carried by our police.

[@user-ns3vs3bp3e]

There’s just something about wood stocked smg’s that look so damn pretty. Like I totally get why we don’t use them for anything but as a collection piece/range toy? Yes please.

[@MadJustin7]

They should have kept it. A mostly ceremonial SMG for a mostly ceremonial Swiss guard. Does the job and looks pretty while doing it.

[@42ZaphodB42]

@@MadJustin7 I bet these perform quite well, just as all first generation smgs.

[@Getpojke]

@Dan Didnot The Lanchester is my fave too, but that SIG MKPS is awfully pretty.

[@robosoldier11]

Kinda got a similar look to the Hungarian SMG of ww2. Specifically the 39M.

[@Getpojke]

@@robosoldier11 That's what the fore-end reminded me of, thank you.

[@modus3493]

“I am the way of the light, that light just happens to be muzzle flash” - the pope probably and gun Jesus

[@geodkyt]

LOL

[@matthewhall7976]

Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord, hallelujah.. 😄😄😆😆

[@ivanm.a9147]

Amen

[@hanzwillford5141]

I mean they have these in the Swiss Guard armory so....

[@ScottKenny1978]

I have seen pistol barrels laser-engraved with words to that effect. At the muzzle!

[@lanceocana9059]

That gun looks straight out of a fantasy ww2 themed story, i want one

[@subarunatsuki4145]

Youjo Senki actually

[@addochandra4745]

Mj. Tanya wants to know your location...

[@joaquinpaoloramirez3311]

Lmao

[@Skidracer21]

Heavy Valkyria Chronicles vibes from the design, definitely.

[@ng.tr.s.p.1254]

a fantasy world where the Vatican joined WW2

[@RDG99]

The only SMG with a 20 Faith requirement but has good Holy damage

[@aronwulf1580]

worth 30k runes

[@BurnTheNuance]

@@edm192 With how popular Elden Ring is at the moment It's probably runes.

[@HexagonThatReallyLikesVinegar]

Margit is going to be very unhappy when the Tarnished shows up with a SMG.

[@marcusborderlands6177]

@@BurnTheNuance sorry, it will always be souls

[@GrassSaint33]

@@BurnTheNuance In my head I still think souls even after 100 hours of elden ring lol

[@howardmaryon]

If the “Sten gun” is the “Ork” of the SMG world, this is probably the “Elven”

[@silverjohn6037]

Going full D&D I'd say Stens would be kobolds (clever but dangerous to be around no matter which side of the fight you're on;). Orks would be PPSH-41 (brutal but effective). Dwarves are Thompsons (heavy and overbuilt). Dark Elves are H&K MP5 (dark and deadly). Gnomes Skorpion vz 61 (small and ingenious).

[@ScathingMobile]

Heresy detected.

[@izperehoda]

@@silverjohn6037 I'd replace PPSH-41 with PPS-43 as it looks even more crude and basic

[@silverjohn6037]

@@izperehoda Possibly, but you have to have the drum magazine for the max dakka;).

[@ju87stukadivebomber87]

@@silverjohn6037 I get sick comparing guns to elves, I now realize I'm sort of genocidal towards elves and believe Link from legend of Zelda is the only cool one. Elves by nature are snobby for no reason and believe they're perfect when no one likes them. I don't know of one but an elf gun would be one that looks pretty but runs like it's made of Chinese plastic left out in the sun for a month. Also he said J is I in German, listen to old German music a lot but that doesn't make me an expert, but J is almost always Y. With further digging on the pronunciation of J, I think it's a typo on the gun, that's not how Germans spell Industrielle.

[@hendriktonisson2915]

Interestingly Estonia followed quite similar path to Switzerland in the small arms development during the Interwar period. Estonia during the Interwar period had it's own military equipment factory- the Arsenal Tallinn. In 1927 Arsenal Tallinn started to produce a copy of the German MP 18 submachine gun with several changes known simply as the A.T. or A.T. M27 (sometimes incorrectly referred to as M1923). The A.T. M27 was chambered in 9x20mm Browning Long and about 600 were produced making Estonia one of the first countries to adopt a submachine gun as a standard military weapon. In 1938 Arsenal Tallinn built a new submachine gun prototype known as A.T. M38 and it's mechanism was very similar to the SIG MKMO - a lever delayed blowback but it was chambered in 9x19mm Parabellum. There were plans to mass produce the A.T. M38 but these were cut short by the Soviet occupation of Estonia in 1940.

[@gordlusty9316]

Details. I love details.

[@hendriktonisson2915]

@@gordlusty9316 If you search "arsenal tallinn submachine gun" you can find pictures of both of these guns.

[@MartinMizner]

Nice story

[@IntrospectorGeneral]

Note to self: check if the Swiss Guard still uses the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch.

[@martingardener90]

Brother Maynard say's No - now go and change your armour!

[@sparkplug1018]

These are really cool SMG's. Of course we all know the most famous user of this weapon was Major Tanya von Degurechaff.

[@alifr4088]

Lmao true

[@bishop4144]

I'm a big fan of a fictional female character that uses this specific firearm, what a chance to see this being reviewed by gunJesus, thank you!!!!

[@franciszeklatinik889]

I know what you're talking about

[@thisiswhywecanthavenicethi8965]

im here for this

[@Yuffie777]

Who dat?

[@FiveTwoSevenTHR]

I scrolled way too long to see a reference.

[@cjmunnee3356]

@@FiveTwoSevenTHR What's this a reference to?

[@jaredthehawk3870]

Pius XII, the Pope at the time Stalin said that retorted back with "Tell my son Joseph that he shall meet my legions in the next life."

[@hutchthelynx]

I just watched Saga of Tanya the Evil and i really was wondering what SMG she was using later in the Show, thank you for showing me what my heart desires!

[@Grasyl]

"O" is for "Oben", meaning 'top' in German, it states that the MKM'O' is top ejecting.

[@bikkiikun]

The I guess the 'S' stands for "Seite" (side)...

[@niclbicl]

Oh, grasyl schön dich hier zu sehen!

[@Grasyl]

@@bikkiikun Yes, exactly.

[@boymahina123]

Apparently the O's are also not lever delayed, but hesitation locked (like the old Remington Model 51's)

[@Grasyl]

@@boymahina123 Yes bolt-head and bolt-carrier are together driven back by the blowback. Before the bolt-head can reach critical extraction it is stopped. But the bolt-carrier is free to move and it does so due to its inertia. This prevent the weapon from opening to fast to soon. On its travel backwards the bolt-carrier trips a device that will unlock the bolt-head and due to a connection the bolt-carrier will drag the bolt-head backwards to fully extract the cartridge. Genius system very save with only view moving parts with little stress on them.

[@dafrog55]

Oh my gosh. Its the weapon from "Saga of Tanya the evil." I recognized every "rifle" in the show but her SMG. This is it.

[@theloser668]

I had no idea the sub machine gun from Saga of Tanya the Evil was Swiss. Truly a beautiful weapon.

[@yareyare_dechi]

i think hers was the MKMS, the longer version

[@cmc1517]

@@yareyare_dechi it is,but very similar weapons

[@yareyare_dechi]

@@cmc1517Pretty much. I think Ian literally said the only difference is a long magazine and barrel/stock to accommodate the longer magazine when folded. i know the OP wasnt saying there were the same gun. i was just pointing out tanyas was the military version

[@shaggyrebel8737]

My dude here beat me to it. Isekai protag: aight imma challenge God. Isekai god: Now you're a child, here's magic powers and draft papers for children.

[@zynsoloris4925]

Beat me to it, and it does look small enough for Tonya to use. And it makes it's more accurately sense to how she would carry it

[@sreebuszeebus1343]

Tanya’s SMG

[@SeRgEyYyY777]

Technically she "borrowed" it

[@subarunatsuki4145]

Taken from a Mercenary

[@30inchPEN15]

Cultured man

[@dbmail545]

Elegant magazine system. Considering how most SMG's appear to be ugly for the sake of ugliness, it doesn't take much to be the "prettiest". 1,028 units made, alas. Too expensive, I would guess.

[@teddyroosevelt79]

30k is my guess. Who knows. Edit: You mean to manufacture back in the day.. I don't even want to know what that would have been, probably like 400 bucks lol.

[@schussfreudech]

They sell for around 2000ish in Switzerland which is double that of a Furrer MP but still less than you'd expect.

[@Derpasaurusrex1]

13:24 What a catch, and doesn't skip a beat, either. Amazing

[@daviddavis1322]

Consummate professional

[@Getpojke]

The fleeting look of horror in the eyes, but he kept going. I wonder if Morphy's have one of those signs saying "Lovely to look at, delightful to hold. If you break it consider it sold!"

[@DrSabot-A]

Love that he kept the take instead of trashing it completely

[@triumphstagdriver]

What are the chances !? I was watching this via mobile phone that I had on a table. Inadvertently I knocked the table and I see the gun fall over!

[@joshuagarzone6841]

Kept scrolling to find this comment😂😂

[@ernov2426]

Ian, "O" stands for "Oben" (top ejection) while the "S" from the other Version stands for "Seitlich" (side ejection).

[@Sgt_SealCluber]

Anson Sioux's gun from "Saga of Tanya the Evil", though it mas the MKMS rather than the PS here.

[@Sgt_SealCluber]

Stupid Giggle and TouYube shadowbanning any comment that mentions the word "we" that then ends with the word "icky", even though their "fact check" banners on videos link to said thing.

[@M4nusky]

It makes sens now

[@1971irvin]

Nice gun, the Swiss weapons, like Swiss watches and clocks, are very beautiful. But maybe a little too advanced or complicated...lol 😁

[@Gabthar]

Ian, you are the most Beautiful SMG ever made.

[@duckyboy4329]

I guess i finally know what Tanya's SMG is based on

[@BlazingHoundoomMC]

Not even based on, it is the model she used. All the guns are real guns from the world wars. They were using mondragon rifles in the beginning like the German Air force did.

[@alifr4088]

Although the one that major Tanya uses is the MKMS variant (longer barrel version)

[@123asap6]

The gun used by a certain transmigrated japanese salaryman....

[@bencom01]

I was about to say it looks awfully similar to the Király pattern hungarian SMG with the folding magazine, until you yourself noted that they got the mechanism from his pattern.

[@Gizmomaster]

This looks like the sub machine gun that Tanya uses in Saga of Tanya the Evil.

[@laugh.3605]

Yes

[@darkelf2x1]

she uses the MKMS which is the longer barreled version (MKPS is the police version with shorter barrel)

[@CobraDBlade]

There is so much clever engineering in this gun. Frankly, I wish that a manufacturer out there would start reproducing these as a PCC rather than pooping out another pistol caliber AR.

[@_ArsNova]

I will say, I wish more manufacturers had used screws for their wooden handguards like this one. So many pretty wooden handguards get scraped up and damaged by sliding off really tightly-fit barrel bands during dis/reassembly.

[@cymond]

Funny side note: ALL transferrable machine guns will be C&R eligible in 14 years.

[@DarkAvatar1313]

That's assuming that the "AFT" doesn't move the goalposts...

[@cymond]

@@DarkAvatar1313 is that something they have discretionary control over? Or is it written into the law? Because there are limits to how far they can take their interpretations.

[@DarkAvatar1313]

@@cymond They don't care they push their own crap all the time. Just look at the current FRT trigger debacle. By the legal definition of a machine gun the FRT trigger is not one but the ATF made a recent statement declaring that they are machine guns and will be pursuing those who sell or possess them. No legislation was passed, the ATF decided to change the rules overruling the constitution and separation of powers (the executive branch isn't supposed to pass or change laws.) As a side note keep in mind to convert your NFA item to a C&R status, you must send the actual gun to the ATF to them to study first. Good luck getting it back.

[@cymond]

@@DarkAvatar1313 I'm pretty sure that guns automatically become C&R when they're 50 years old. Here's the FuddBusters episode kzbin.info/www/bejne/pGjTemeKq9CsY5o

[@DarkAvatar1313]

@@cymond Yeah my bad, I just double checked, the part of sending it in is for a weapon less than 50 years but still has historical significance. My point about the ATF infringements is still valid though.

[@fainterdot]

Truly suitable for a certain imperial German magical girl.

[@l.h.9747]

Häh ?

[@rwps3677]

@@l.h.9747 Tanya

[@ScottKenny1978]

@@l.h.9747 Saga of Tanya the Evil, aka Yojou Senki. Tanya captured an SMG from an opposing trooper, and this is that SMG, well, the military version.

[@Allen338LM]

The machining fit and finish on that is impeccable and even top tier ARs don't have the look and craftsmanship of rifles back in the day

[@Mockturtlesoup1]

True, but thats(at least in part) what made the AR so great. Unlike earlier designs, including AK, nothing had to be hand fitted, or filed/ground down, etc. to produce the guns. It didn't even need large factories with big expensive stamping machines. Everything was machined or cast, which made the parts completely interchangeable and easy to produce(provided you had CNC/milling machines), and perhaps equally importantly, it made them easy to repair. Just grab a spare bolt out of the bin(or better yet, just carry a spare bolt and firing pin-say in your pistol grip-and rock and role(as opposed to something like an AK, where if you need a new bolt, trunion, etc., you're screwed.) It's like the difference between a 1911 and a glock. (And yes, I'm sure you're aware of this, I didn't mean to sound like I was "correcting" you, but for some reason I just felt the need to point it out. And believe me, I too love the skill and craftsmanship put into a lot of these old guns(and machines in general), and the Swiss are probably at the top of the list when it comes to that(even though they at times had a tendency to overcomplicate certain things.) In fact, I've been saving up for a Nighthawk Custom 1911, but despite having the money, it's so hard to justify spending $4500-5000 on a single pistol, especially one I will likely treat like a baby, and only use on the range.)

[@CrotalusKid]

Did this guy just say craftmanship and ARs? Lmao

[@RockSolitude]

Because most top tier ARs are just a random collection of overpriced parts which are then put together by someone else and then sold to you for even more money. Even if that's not the case, they are just ordinary parts which they still over price.

[@randymagnum143]

Beautiful manufacturing, piss poor engineering.

[@SlavicCelery]

That knurling on the back is getting close to the American knurling on the hotchkiss portative LMG barrel. But that's just some of the best machining I've ever seen in a video period.

[@sevenproxies4255]

They say German engineering is top notch The Swiss: "Hold my beer"

[@laugh.3605]

Just like Tanya's gun that she takes from enemy

[@RayTX1337]

The MKMO stands for "Maschinenkarabiner für Militär, Hülsenauswurf oben". tl: "Maschine-Carbine for Military, case-ejection top" The O stands for Oben, the top eject mechanism. The MK is the designation of the weapon type. (Maschinenkarabiner) The third letter denotes the use, M is Militär, P is Polizei. (Military, Police) The last letter denotes the ejection, O for Oben and S for Seite (Top, Side) They (MKMO and MKMS/MKPS) have, aside from the ejection, the same mechanic insides.

[@chrisinstasis7986]

"An elegant weapon, for a more civilized age" (One part of that is true, at any rate)

[@Sgt_SealCluber]

If you have seen the anime "Saga of Tanya the Evil" I think this is the gun they used as the model for Anson Sioux's gun that Tanya then took from him after defeating him. Well the show wiki says I was in fact correct, though it's the MKMS model (long barrel).

[@jos_meid]

I can't believe I didn't notice that, but you're absolutely right. I knew this gun looked familiar.

[@Verdha603]

@@jos_meid I remember having to look it up on the IMFDB wiki since for a while I thought it was just a Beretta Model 38 with fictional liberties taken to it before finding out she was using a legit submachine gun.

[@Steven-kf3os]

Also Anson Sioux's daughter Mary is a horrible soldier

[@edwardschmitt5710]

And if i haven't?

[@somechinesedude5466]

​​@@Steven-kf3os well, she's "mary s(ioux)ue"

[@michapfordt1703]

O stands for ,,Hülsenauswurf Oben" = ,,case-ejection Top" and S stands for ,,Hülsenauswurf Seite" = side-ejection

[@DrSabot-A]

@68K I see "Old Swedish how long using German words?" in that sentence, where'd you get this and erased the spaces lmao

[@brass427]

@68K Excellent!

[@johnwolf2829]

One look at this and I am thinking "The Saga of Tanya the Evil" !! If you don't know.... you really missed out.

[@glenlinscheid5681]

Looking at the 6" barreled P08 and remarked at it's beauty, a guy next to me pointed at a "Judge" revolver and suggested THAT was more beautiful, and that tells the story.

[@lardomcfarty9866]

This makes me hate the judge even more

[@morp0407]

The swiss seem to have a way at making very good things.

[@ScottKenny1978]

Yeah, but they tend to grossly over work the machining, which makes whatever it is cost at least 5x more.

[@josephsnyder2333]

Just love how perfectly the receiver appears to be milled, such precise calculations needed all before the invention of computers and 3D mapping technology

[@liamg9410]

Im ashamed to say that it never clicked in my head that things were milled before computers were invented. I know the dates dont add up but i just never noticed 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️. Yet again, down the wikipedia rabbit hole i go :)

[@KeeganYF12]

@@liamg9410 It's actually rather interesting and intuitive how manual milling machines are operated.

[@Zues120]

To be honest "modern" milling at my super duper high tech factory is using bridgeport mills made in the 60s with a digital readout attached. Do all if it by "hand" just like they "used" too! Tight tolerances arent hard to get!! A simple dial caliper can be used pretty accurately to plus minus .005. any more you'd need micrometers which are all manual anyways as the digital readout ones are like 3x the money!!

[@KeeganYF12]

@@Zues120 Most of the machines I've used are ones from the 50s that have been converted to computer control, and all of the ones that weren't have had digital readouts.

[@tdugong]

Almost looks like the SMG Tanya uses in Youjo Senki.

[@jaygnome6883]

its the same gun

[@darkelf2x1]

she uses the MKMS which has the longer barrel (mkps is the shorter barrel version)

[@tdugong]

@@darkelf2x1 hence why I said almost looks like the one Tanya uses. Thanks for telling the model though.

[@TheHylianBatman]

Wow. This whole time, I thought I was crazy for my wishlist of gun features to be so long and specific. Nope, turns out I'm just subconsciously Swiss! This thing is literally perfect. The only thing I can think impractical is the folding magazine. Practical for storage and carrying, sure, but impractical for use. Maybe SIG ought to be who I read up on next.

[@Paelorian]

The earlier MKMO/MKPO used a John Pedersen hesitation-lock action, making them more appealing than the simplified blowback models but also more expensive to manufacture. Variants were offered in .30 Mauser and 9mm Mauser, perhaps the most powerful submachine gun cartridges of the time. Cool. Whether they're more functional than .30 or 9mm Parabellum on these full-auto-only SMGs is a matter of recoil control. I'm curious especially about the hesitation-locked models and how they perform.

[@n0094]

I'm also curious about MKMO/MKPO and how they compare to straight blowback ones. Not sure why Ian said they're lever delayed. Also "hesitation-locked" is kinda weird name, I think "short-blowback" better describes this mechanism.

[@jenniferstewarts4851]

The MKPS looks so strange with that snub barrel... I'm so used to seeing the MKMS version with the longer barrel. Comically this weapon isn't exactly forgotten. There are TONS of anime fans out there that will recognize this, as the Sig... Marry bought for her father, that Tanya the Evil claimed as a war prize and used through half the season + the movie, + the Operation Desert Pasta.

[@sparkplug1018]

The Major sure did like using this SMG.

[@jenniferstewarts4851]

@@sparkplug1018 yep, though poor thing isn't a major anymore, she got promoted. She's a Lt. Colonel i think, boarding on full Col once combat options begin. She was given command of the 8th Kampfgruppe 'Salamander'. To test out the concept of a truly and fully Combined Arms Battalion.

[@sparkplug1018]

@@jenniferstewarts4851 Yep, though when referencing this particular weapon I still call her Major since that was her rank when she captured it from Colonel Anson Sioux. Sucks to be too good at your job right?

[@jenniferstewarts4851]

@@sparkplug1018 well at least she's not a Mary Sue... thats the Col's daughter.

[@sparkplug1018]

@@jenniferstewarts4851 Yep.

[@matthaught4707]

Ian's got reflexes like a jungle cat, honed over many years of saving guns from falling over

[@eddierudolph8702]

There is something beautiful about all the first generation smg and this one is definitely in the running as the prettiest one.

[@christoffermonikander2200]

Poor SIG. First they had to see this beautifully engineered smg loose the Swiss army contract to an over-engineered, expensive tooglelock smg that could not function reliably in the field. Then when the army got fed up with the togglelock SIG had to watch them go and buy the Suomi from the Finns instead. That had to sting.

[@dphalanx7465]

OK, dont understand that at all. If they had a perfectly-good Swiss-engineered weapon--why buy from the Finns?? Unless it's price problems...in which case it's an example of shooting oneself in the beautifully-manufactured foot, LOL! (And don't even get me started on the Swiss obsession with stupid togglelocks!)

[@ScottKenny1978]

@@dphalanx7465 I'd put my life savings on "too expensive" For a rifle, you can somewhat get away with some levels of over engineering it, especially if your country's doctrine is highly focused on precision marksmanship. Chasing that last few % increase in performance gets expensive really quickly. But for an SMG, that's really not the name of the game. The last few % performance you are chasing there is rounds before stoppage. That said, I'd love an MKPS of my own.

[@tsorevitch2409]

@@dphalanx7465 it can always be due to personal gains of persons involved. Corruption and industrial millitary complex is like twin brothers

[@ProA-kv2jv]

Hello fellow gun Jesus enthusiast I wish you all a good day

[@EnzoBonelli56]

Likewise!!

[@lithium1770]

@@samholdsworth420 my guy u aint from ukraine

[@toncek9981]

To be fair if you are going to issue SMGs to your mostly ceremonial guard that's mostly wearing armour and Renaissance style clothing while holding their halberds... Why not this beauty? (Yes I know that halberd guys are just on ceremonial duty at the moment, while other guys are armed with modern stuff...)

[@telurkucing5006]

Youjo senki 1 ost play Tanya von degurechaff with scary smile : thats my guns to wipe francois squad

[@volvok7749]

A shame Swiss guns only shoot serialized ammunition...

[@ScottKenny1978]

🤣🤣🤣

[@workingjoe898]

Let’s assume if the Reising SMG was made with Swiss quality, would it has a better reputation?

[@Chilly_Billy]

It reminds me of the rifles used in the original Planet of the Apes.

[@jwc00789]

Yup! Those were restocked surplus .30 Cal M1 Carbines.

[@thelemon0001]

13:20 Ian wants to have that gun for himself so badly, it's magnetically attracted to him.

[@J.DeLaPoer]

Speaking of the "Schmeisser" MP-41 Ian, any plans to feature one here? I know they're little more than wood stocked MP40's, but I had a toy one as a kid in the 80s and have been kind of fascinated by them ever since just due to their obscurity -- apparently nobody seems to recognize them compared to the more iconic SMGs. For many years I myself thought it was just some silly creation of the toy company as it wasn't in any books, movies, etc.

[@Ni999]

He featured it four years ago.

[@J.DeLaPoer]

@@Ni999 Thanks, now I look like a fool lol. I thought I'd seen them all...

[@Ni999]

@@J.DeLaPoer Nonsense, Ian works hard so it's easy to overlook something in this great catalog. I've made the same mistake and I'll bet we're not alone in that. Enjoy the MP41 video, I just re-watched myself so, thanks for the tip!

[@bennyt.christensen3970]

Hi Ian, you are a real connaisseur when it comes to gun's, and you are right, this one looks extremely good and well made.😊👍

[@Scrial]

No roller lock? Can this even be called a Swiss gun without a roller lock?^^

[@foobar201]

You forgot abouy A. Furrer and his toggle lock fetish

[@Scrial]

@@foobar201 I think that's what I was thinking of when I made that comment.

[@foobar201]

@@Scrial Well, there's also the beautifully overengineered roller delayed stgw57

[@Hawk1966]

Beautifully made weapon. The fit & finish are incredible. I can see why they weren't adopted by anyone they likely cost a bloody fortune and also probably took quite some time to produce.

[@MrJest2]

Relatively speaking, indeed. But just right for the limited-by-treaty Swiss Guard! 😋 (Like the Palace Guards in Britain, you don't mess with the S.G. or you will find out just how deadly serious - and heavily armed - they are underneath the silly archaic uniforms and ritualistic performances...)

[@Hawk1966]

@@MrJest2 okay, but the Brits sensibly are armed with the SA80 not anywhere near obscure as the weapon featured here.

[@balancedfordaylight1]

Man that is beautiful its too bad there would be no one willing to import or build a semi auto carbine version of this

[@elijahaitaok8624]

these days we'd hop on like like hot cakes and ice cream

[@wills2140]

The semi auto carbine market is largely already saturated by heritage designs made by current manufacturers, hard for anyone to get in. Plus this blow back mechanism might run afoul of ATF's ruling that open bolt - blow back operated guns are too easy to convert to full auto and fall under the machine gun tax and registry.

[@elijahaitaok8624]

@@wills2140 ATF is babies that need to cry some more

[@ScottKenny1978]

@@elijahaitaok8624 too bad they have the ability to end your business and throw you in jail for the rest of your life.

[@elijahaitaok8624]

@@ScottKenny1978 sounds like all the more reason the ATF should be a convenience store rather than a government agency

[@mauriciosl]

Only one thing could explain why the swiss army didn't pick this one instead of the Furrer MP-41/44. Corruption.

[@RedXlV]

Apparently Colonel Furrer himself was in charge of the selection process, and selected his own design without even having trials.

[@kubrick1969]

Gun Jesus with a Holy Gun!!!!

[@kentran8177]

*Lt Colonel Degurechaff wants to know your location.*

[@bramster-b9v]

The quality and condition is excellent as we are accustomed to Swiss weapons. Real Jewel! Oh well, good reflexes

[@rainunderscore]

almost as beautiful as this first comment

[@rainunderscore]

@@samholdsworth420 damn how will i recover

[@gerry343]

I guess with all that machining from solid it was a relatively expensive gun to make. Love the safety interlocks for the end cap.

[@Alte.Kameraden]

Oh another SiG SMG for Tanya Degurechaff to add to her collections.

[@ankaynavravens]

So many similarities with the Kiraly M39. Folding magasine, 9/25mm (at the begining), just not lever delayed like the Kiraly smg. Really cool guns!

[@vega1287]

it is a swiss gun. how dare you not use swiss screwdrivers to take it apart \s.

[@robertrobert7924]

I believe not having a semi-auto option may have doomed this weapon from the start. I also wonder if encasing the barrel in wood my have caused it to overheat rapidly? Very interesting concept and a lovely piece.

[@AshleyPomeroy]

It's as if they were too proud to give it a perforated metal barrel shroud.

[@dbmail545]

I suspect that you are correct. Seems like it would have been much more useful, especially as a police weapon, to have a semi-auto option.

[@thomasfoolery8408]

Ian- as soon as you disassembled the weapon....holy f man, it looks like it was machined yesterday!

[@charlesboots6508]

You could do a great episode on the weapons of the Swiss Guard. Fascinating history there.

[@kevinbaker6168]

Very well designed and innovative design. Only thing that would keep it from being assumed to be a design of twenty to forty years later was the wood stock instead of a wire or polymer one.

[@thisiswhywecanthavenicethi8965]

This weapon is known to be favored by ace mages in the "Not German" army

[@ScottKenny1978]

Captured trophy, that just so happens to use the same ammunition.

[@alifr4088]

Although that one is the MKMS variant (longer barrel version)

[@JH-lo9ut]

Super interesting. I have been wondering why we don't see folding magazine on smg's. This design was almost exactly what I had in mind. I guess it's very impractical for an open bolt mechanism though, since you can't have a cartrige chambered ready to go. It introduces a third action that needs to be executed before the gun is ready to fire. I can see why this weapon was suitable for the Swiss guard of the Vatican. Very stylish, yet discrete with the folding mag. Security forces wielding automatic weapons in public, crowded places Always makes me uneasy, and I don't think I am the only one to feel that way. You are meant to display reassurance, not intimidation. Especially in a place that is holy to many of the visitors. I note that the finger grooves are slanted the right way for the fingers, but the wrong way for the thumb... Or is this the minimum effort ever given to make a gun "ambidextrous"?

[@Yustax]

Tanya's submachine gun

[@p99guy]

Aesthetics is as allways, in the eye of the beholder… this rather looks like Its dad was a K31 in alot of its styling. ( not a bad thing, as I have several K31’s, and marvel at the quality) But in looks alone, I feel some of the prewar Beretta submachineguns like the M1938 to also be quite nice in looks, quality, and ease of use.

[@brunoratto253]

Leave it to the Swiss to overcomplicate a simple blowback, open bolt smg. Still, it is beautiful and it probably still runs smooth as silk even today, like many things made by the Swiss. Thanks for the amazing video Ian!

[@wolfgangwust5883]

Still nothing beats the MP5 in terms of beauty imho.

[@alun7006]

Hard agree - that thing is *gorgeous* in every way! Paint the stock and attach a scope and muzzle device and it'd be a perfect Star Wars blaster as well.

[@77gravity]

"Paint the stock" - BLASPHEMY. :)

[@Kremit_the_Forg]

Everyone that lays his filthy hand on this with the intent to desecrate it with such atrocities should be burned at the stake

[@alun7006]

@@Kremit_the_Forg love me some desecration...

[@Hysteria98]

"They didn't make that many of these" *Me guessing* "Around 1,200?" "Around 1,228" "OOOOHHHHHH!!!"

[@xhammy6174]

It really is the most beautiful gun ever. I'm glad I got to see you with one, wasn't expecting that.

[@mnk9073]

What's this, a Swiss gun with less than 500 moving parts? HERESY, dip him in fondue! Roll him in chocolate shavings! Feed him to the marmots!

[@Sman7290]

Even if you could get it to fire without the back cap, the bolt still isn't coming out and whacking you in the face. Everyone forgets that the charging handle makes for a really good bolt stop.

[@ovidiufrasinel3185]

How about a back cap in your teeth with all the energy stored by that recoil spring. Well not very likely to happen but a swiss engineer sure addressed that.

[@justinholland9844]

Good point. Still wouldn't be good for the gun, though.

[@Sman7290]

@@ovidiufrasinel3185 It would suck, but it wouldn't be anywhere near as bad as if the bolt came with it.

[@Sman7290]

@@justinholland9844 0/10. Would NOT recommend.

[@JozefLucifugeKorzeniowski]

You can insult me for being crude, cavalier, and disrespectful, but there are only 3 words that need be said that cover every permutation of anything I could express about how I feel about this piece including all the tenses and that is: "I JUST NUT"

[@dr.sleaseball441]

Tanya the Evil anyone?

[@LittleRabbit1138]

This thing has just sooooo many visual similarities to the P13 Enfield.... There's no convincing me they weren't familiar with that rifle while making this!

[@lokichoki_]

Neat, watching this made me think about a P90 magazine and how cool a rifle like this would be but with the p90 mag fitting at the bottom

[@adamcichon6957]

Bruh! Build one. Maybe you will start a new manufacture? Who knows?

[@lokichoki_]

@@adamcichon6957 unfortunately I have no room for a lathe or mill nor the money to procure them

[@ianfurqueron5850]

Hmm... it's an interesting idea... but the P90 mag is really wide and square. "Wide" as in a good 50% wider than the forward handguard of my Norinco AK. If you added something for the mag to slot in to make it more comfortable to hold, it would make the handguard even wider. I have a few P90 mags and just compared them.

[@lokichoki_]

@@ianfurqueron5850 I have yet to handle one of the p90 mags, I'd say it's feasible with a 10/22 style blowback maybe a telescoping bolt. With a polymer stock you don't need that extra mass to be strong

[@ianfurqueron5850]

@@lokichoki_ oh I didn't say it's not feasible. It just might not be comfortable unless you have really large hands.

[@a_loyal_kiwi88]

Am i the only one who doesn't like this gun? I can't really say why in particular, compared to other guns of its era though it turns me off, maybe its all the wooden furniture (there's just too much for an SMG and makes it look overly bulky). The fact it didn't do very well in terms of sales i guess people at the time agreed lol. It just seems a bit to complicated and possibly expensive to be made en masse for a war effort, compared to other weapons of the time, such as the MP40 which just used stamped parts over milled.

[@Crangaso]

Classic example of old school beauty!

[@kevanhubbard9673]

When I was there as best I could see the Swiss Guard didn't have guns but fierce long pikes.There was a Vatican State Police too but I can't remember if they had guns.Some Italian police of various kinds walked through there too maybe as a short cut as I don't know if they have powers in the Vatican State?

[@johnnyappleseed6415]

I guess, between the SIG and the '21 Thompson SMG's, I would say the Thompson has more aesthetic appeal for me. However, I just can't imagine the Swiss Guards brandishing a Thompson without them also wearing the requisite fedora and having a lit cigarette dangling from their lips.

[@josephwintrich7294]

Beautiful? It's kind of ugly, it COULD use a few changes on the woodwork and charging handle as well a few other odds and ends to perfect it to beauty. BUT being it was engineered as a tool for operators Sig wasn't putting on a fashion show. 🤪

[@UnnamedSeeker]

Ain't that Tanyas trophy SMG?

[@ScottKenny1978]

Apparently!

[@greyman0000]

She has the military version (this is for police, with shorter barrel)

[@UnnamedSeeker]

@@greyman0000 yep, just as I thought

[@elijahaitaok8624]

hey they used this smg in Saga of Tanya the Evil

[@aidengonzalez615]

I think the most beautiful SMG is the MP5, especially when there's a Maglite attached to it, and when it's held by guys rappelling down the Iranian Embassy.

[@wolfgangwust5883]

Sure, nothing beats HK MP5 when it comes sheer beauty.

[@happyliver462]

Took the words outta my mouth. A P90 is pretty sexy too. Mp5 is a classic

[@kirkmooneyham]

The Wikipedia article on the earlier version (yes, I know how unreliable those articles can be) states that the O in the designation was for "Oben" because the submachinegun top ejected. The later version, as in the video, was "Seitlich" for side ejection.