Did Jesus Exist?

[@dukeemzworth3005]

"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful." - Lucius Annaeus Seneca, 1st century Roman philosopher.

[@jerrylanglois7892]

Best one I've ever heard ! Thanks.

[@Achill101]

Seneca was writing about the religion he knew, Roman polytheism.

[@Poseidon6363]

The Roman imperial family, the Flavians, had created Christianity to pacify the Jews’ rebellion against Rome, and even more incredibly, they had placed a literary satire within the Gospels and “Wars of the Jews” to inform posterity of this fact.

[@Goosemeyer]

well, the Roman Catholic version for sure. The original Prince of Peace, Julius Caesar started the Pax Romana, the greatest period of peace in history. He was killed by the Senate, he died for the good of Rome. Judas is Brutus. The entire fabrication of the "passion play" version of the crucifixition is built on these themes.

[@wmthewyld]

where are your facts to prove this?

[@carnelujai]

Exactly and if you study the political atmosphere of the region through secular and Jewish sources like I have you would come to the conclusion that Christianity was invented by the Romans to control the area and the Roman world!!!!

[@markjeffo6098]

The gnostic christians had their religion stolen and literallized by rome.

[@JEFFDUCE99]

Jesus is real because the bible says he is real and the bible is real because the bible says it is real . He lived in a bunch of different places at once , was born in 2 different place at a bunch of different dates and his story is the same as 21 other "Son God" in the past 5000 years .

[@Arkloyd]

The bible is real. The book exists. What it is *not* is true.

[@josegaleano1530]

bull

[@t.k.2369]

Exactly

[@natehawg1914]

Heathen the Bible says Romans 13:14KJV and is written in scriptures for Sin means those who don't stick to the script. William Shakespeare Given⭐

[@MrEwanc]

Christianity, like all religions, is about faith. Do you believe? I would say that those Christians who believe in the reality of Jesus Christ will not present themselves to debate these questions, and those Christians who are unsure will.

[@Dr_Manhattan_Phd]

I'm not sure if Jesus existed but if he did, I know he looks less like Michael Cera and more like Morgan Freeman.

[@ericm6415]

For all the people who think Jesus actually existed because you just accept the claims from authority... Read these three books.... "Nailed", by David Fitzgerald, and the two books from Richard Carrier, "Not the Impossible Faith", and "On the Historicity of Jesus". It will be very clear as to why many people now think that the Jesus of the Bible was NEVER a flesh-and-blood individual.

[@LogosTheos]

Instead of reading crackpots you should read real scholarship.

[@ericm6415]

LogosTheos I have read books from more traditional, ideological, theistic-based writers. In each one of their presentations, many items are left to, or "backed-up" by faith... if not several other fallacious methods of confirmation for an idea... such as the most abused method of popularity for an idea making it true... The books I listed above are much more scholarly than any I've read by CS Lewis, Rick Warren or Lee Strobel... Perhaps you have a suggestion for reading? Somebody with knowledge in ancient Hebrew, Aramaic, and Roman ... writing, history and culture... not JUST being well versed in the bible.

[@baryns6141]

Richard Carrier is not a crackpot. If you checked out his background you know he is a degreed historian (phd) who specializes in religious history. The books sited above are Richard Carrier's attempt to introduce a new methodology based on Bayes Theorem to establish the likelihood of historical events. His thesis is based on the understanding that historians do not have a standard methodology for establishing historical probability that is consistently applied and provides consistent conclusions.

[@Spartatious]

"Strong minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, weak minds discuss people."- Socrates.

[@exilfromsanity]

DirestWolf ; That's a discussion of people.

[@enjoful]

socrates never existed

[@dickbeater8954]

@@enjoful hahahaha actually laughed out loud.. excellent retort

[@dukeon]

-Eleanor Roosevelt

[@raymondgrimaldi9207]

Only if those people actually existed

[@rgaleny]

The church destroyed 100 volumes of Livy's histories on those times.

[@nosuchthing8]

Why?

[@Achill101]

@@nosuchthing8 - the church didn't copy them, because the church didn't consider them worthy of the work. Manuscripts not copied decay over time, burn, or get lost otherwise.

[@nosuchthing8]

@Peter T the shepherd of hermas was extremely popular in its day. Let me know if you need a link. There were many many variables on Christianity and it wasn't until several hundred years later that the Canon was decided upon.

[@Achill101]

@@nosuchthing8 - you're correct that the Shepherd of Hermas was popular in the 3rd century. But when the biblical canon was decided in the 4th century, the Shepherd was not included and it was mostly forgotten. Its text first became known to the West when the Patriarch of Constantinopel gave as present to the English king an old bible from the 4th century that still contained the Shepherd.

[@richardplatt4245]

There occurs no contemporary Roman record that shows Pontius Pilate executing a man named Jesus. Devastating to historians, there occurs not a single contemporary writing that mentions Jesus. All documents about Jesus came well after the life of the alleged Jesus from either: unknown authors, people who had never met an earthly Jesus, or from fraudulent, mythical or allegorical writings.

[@richardplatt4245]

So a religion can be based on supposition, lots of interpretation of what could have happened. Read what you have posted and tell me another example of where in history we are to take a fable as absolute truth because the actual events might have incriminated people. I could surmise a version of the story and come out with something completely different and you would have as much success in disproving mine as proving yours.

[@richardplatt4245]

As I read your post ( smiling at the continued guess work) all I could think was again your religion resorting to the same old veiled threat of damnation if you do not worship this god, regardless of how nicely you say it. Another point that made me smile is your attempt at saying that those that believe have achieved a mind that is beyond the finite mind, very conceited and deluded in my humble opinion. You quote dates here and there but fail to mention that none of the apostles actually witnessed any of the events that include Jesus, which makes their claims of writing the actual words from the mouth of the messiah ridiculous. Since all that was written from hearsay, you can discount a high proportion as elaboration, you could interpret it as a process of Chinese whispers over decades. To save me addressing each point of yours, could I just ask do you believe every word of the Bible from Genesis to Revelations? All you mention of your belief is ' with knowledge of the Saviour' which really tells me nothing of you belief apart from your claim to have a knowledge beyond the finite mind.

[@richardplatt4245]

I'm sorry if the simple question about believing every word in the Bible confuses you, the shear fact you have to try complicate it speaks volumes. You write so much without saying anything. Let me try simplify the question, do you ( meaning the person using the name Blue Crystal ) believe the Bible is the word of your deity ( deity being my term for your particular god of your religion) a simple yes or no will suffice. I always find when people skirt around simple questions they are avoiding it because of an insecurity within themselves.

[@richardplatt4245]

A deity which has to resort to threats of damnation is not a moral being it is immoral. As for arrogance I do agree it is arrogant for people to believe they are better than anyone else just because their belief system. I am not the one claiming to have a mind which can function beyond finite thinking. Yet again you make me smile calling me ignorant because i will not believe in an immoral deity, your Bible screams double standards and immorality and anyone following such a vile belief system is the ignorant one, what kind of designer or creator only chooses to “reveal” himself to semi-stupefied peasants in desert regions? Religion is man-made. Even the men who made it cannot agree on what their prophets or redeemers or gurus actually said or did. Take the risk of thinking for yourself, much more happiness, truth, beauty, and wisdom will come to you that way.

[@richardplatt4245]

I try to deny myself any illusions or delusions, and I think that this perhaps entitles me to try and deny the same to others, at least as long as they refuse to keep their fantasies to themselves.

[@ronni_dessalines4218]

Jesus was a carpenter. He disappeared for 3 days before the job was finished, returned briefly to reassure people that he would definitely be back to finish his work and hasn't been seen since. Yeah, we've all met carpenters like that.

[@arcaneone]

5:40 "This idea that we need a contemporary witness is simply an invented rule" Really? Do you not hear what you are saying? The one person who performed the greatest miracles of all time, yet doesn't have any contemporary authors doesn't sound suspicious to you?

[@Doriesep6622]

You'd think someone who converted a crowd of 5000 in one afternoon would have been recorded somewhere.

[@bluecrystal3900]

Doriesep6622 It was recorded.

[@arcaneone]

Not by anyone alive during Jesus' time. Hence the lack of contemporary witnesses.

[@bluecrystal3900]

arcaneone The disciples were with him before he was crucified.

[@bluecrystal3900]

arcaneone Yep, recorded in all four and two were by his own personal disciples.

[@ShunyamNiketana]

The evidence for the existence of Shakespeare is greater. The issue concerns whether or not that guy wrote all or even any of those plays. The patterns in Jesus's life too closely resemble those of any number of savior gods.

[@solomarineris]

I love the phrase he uses, (not to mention his accent); "Late & Fake".... He is a winner.

[@manuelenrique9220]

I agree with you absolutely. His rethoric is impeccable and his knowledge on the matter is unbeatable.

[@Itsatz0]

Did Ken mention that none of the historians alive in Rome at the time of the fire and wrote about it, record absolutely nothing about Christians?

[@eddieking2976]

Neither Josephus or Tacitus were alive and writing during the supposed ministry of Jesus. Therefore they can't be used as contemporary, corroboratory evidence.

[@robertwebb9285]

Eddie King Thrall us with your acumen, show us the scholars of history with research published in the peer-reviewed journals who accept your criterion as valid. You cannot, there are none and you are mindlessly regurgitating the nescient pablum you eagerly swallowed from unscholastic websites failing to do your normal necessary due diligence and test your assertions for veracity. The fact is the historiographical evidence for Jesus is so overwhelming that no serious scholar bothers with Jesus myther's assertions because they are so obviously wrong and are considered as extremist as skinhead holocaust denial. The fact is the historiographical evidence for Jesus is so overwhelming His historicity is acknowledged by consensus of scholars and the evidence even produces as consensus of sorts that Jesus performed miracles and healings for which there are no known, obvious naturalistic explanations.

[@belaireguy4117]

Right, nice verbiage by the way. The Bible in my opinion especially with who the Jews thought would be their messiah. If Jesus did exist, he was a radical apocalyptic teacher who became a public nuisance and was killed for it. Just that simple, I still go with myth as the manifestation of the Jesus character would be necessitated to be at the foundation of the Christian religion. One question comes to mind, why would the megalomaniacal Judaistic God who chose one people out all peoples to be his forever somehow need an intercessor?

[@brit1066]

Eddie King CORRECT, but the really important thing is that even IF someone like JC did exist there is NOT ONE IOTA OF EVIDENCE THAT HE WAS THE SON OF A GOD. let's say that the historical references to Jesus from historians such a Josephus ARE CORRECT, they say nothing about him being a divinity, so there writings are WORTHLESS.

[@robertwebb9285]

Science-is-god Way to expose your utter nescience on the subject. The very same historiographically authenticated evidence that causes the two consensuses necessarily including non-Christian scholars that not only is Jesus historical but that He performed miracles and healings for which there are no known, obvious naturalistic explanations, also verifies the Resurrection, which Jesus predicted He would do, as an historical event and falsifies every proposed naturalistic explanation. And no the writings of Josephus are not worthless, they have been verified by arabic texts based upon older greek manuscripts pre-dating the texts with the later added interpolations showing Josephus original statement was that Jesus was a worker of wonders and thought to be the Messiah. Josephus is known for adhering to the best practices of ancient historiography of either being an eyewitness or interviewing eyewitnesses and writing while the eyewitnesses were still alive to be questioned indicating he interviewed eyewitnesses of Jesus miracles. Further the James Ossuary underwent intense scrutiny for years during the trial of Oded Golan and scores of experts pronounced the inscription, James the Son of Joseph, the Brother of Jesus to be authentic as the patina could not be faked and it is extremely rare to reference a sibling on an ossuary, only the lineage is referenced and there is only one Jesus that could have been famous enough to justify this. As well, Tacitus wrote that he eyewitnessed in Rome, the Roman census record of Jesus birth from Luke 2. So neither you nor Eddie King have a clue about that which you speak, you are mindlessly regurgitating the ignorant pablum you eagerly swallowed from unscholastic sources failing to do your normal, necessary due diligence or apply critical thinking and test your assertions for veracity. (Brett Manning)

[@unspeakablegaming1015]

Eddie King , there are no contemporary records for Pompeii or Alexander the great.

[@Achill101]

@18:33 Ken repeated that the passage in Tacitus was probably a Christian insertion. Neither Ken nor JP mentioned the contemptuous tone, with which Tacitus describes the Christian and their "superstition". If Christians had inserted the passage, why wouldn't they have toned down Tacitus' contempt? When a Christian later inserted all or part of the Testimonium Flavianum into Josephus' work, he wrote it with praise for Jesus Christ, not contempt. . . . The other problem is motive: Christians in the 2nd century and later were not concerned with Jesus' historicity but his divinity. They didn't think about fooling historians but about how to win more people for Christ. The Tacitus passage couldn't win anybody for the faith in its time.

[@thebitplanes8188]

"Late and Fake!" Is that taken? I want that for my screen name now!

[@JamesMandolare]

What I find fascinating is that layers of myth and history are melded together in the Gospels; layered on every new copy or translation each generation for two thousand years! I think the Jesus Myth is a spiritual literature that tries to use the motifs of ancient literature (Dionysus, Horus, Osiris, etc.) and other philosophers before and since by historians and politicians. Julius Cesare’s history; the history of the Hebrew rebellion of 66-68 ad, the battles and atrocities of Titus Flavius in sacking Jerusalem; (back dated to make Jesus prophecies come true) the traitor Josephus; Constantine's trickery; The heresies and struggles in the early church; all contribute to the story. It was a lively and complex world and the dream journal of history is never an exact memory! Even our own memories of the past in our own lives are often distorted! So much more with the long lost world of the past. The ancient device of Hebrew myth that matches Jesus with Moses; added to and changed by Jewish scholars, and Emperors, and Bishops, Popes, and priests through the centuries. The Bible is a historical dream journal. It is worthy as poetic myth but not as strict history. "History is a lie told by a fool!"

[@RightOnBro72]

I don't see who these guys are in the description, but it seems like one is a Mythicist named Ken Humphreys, and the other is a Christian named "J.P." I'm clearly in favor of Ken Humphrey's point-of-view. There were certainly lots of guys named something like "Jesus," but the Jesus of the Bible could not have existed, or else there'd be solid evidence of him here, today.

[@jordankimball2104]

That christians brain must be sore from all the mental gymnastics he had to go through to try and prove his zombie god

[@glendamclachlan5021]

He needs no proof. He lives and He is God of this world. You can chose who you want to worship however there is no other way back to Gods Kingdom than through the name of Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ the Saviour who gave His life for you and took upon Him your sins as well as mine and He sweat blood as He atoned for us all, He died on the cross and took up life again 3 days later to show all that the body does reunite with the spirit. We will all have a resurrected body at some point and we will be judged. His Judgements are taking place right now. You can take advantage of that great gift or not however you will not have access to God unless through Jesus Christ.

[@jordankimball2104]

Glenda McLachlan my invisible pink unicorn needs no proof. He is alive and is king of our universe. blah blah blah. more crap that I have no proof for and done

[@glendamclachlan5021]

You are here on earth. Who created it? Not a Unicorn........Your choice to believe nothing. However God exists and you exist so it is time to know how and why. Jesus Christ will return and it is only my wish to warn you that it is time to make a choice and what choice you make will affect you for eternity.

[@sonnyren1]

Glenda McLachlan wow even with all the proof in the world u still believe in fictitious sly daddy.....youtube was Jesus Horus or Mithras or Dyonysis or Hercules or Buddha and many more. ....his whole story is copied from Egyptian Mythology and Sun worship

[@glendamclachlan5021]

sonny reneau The bible is the word of God. Read and understand the bible and the prophecy that was in there thousands of years ago which foretold of the birth of Jesus Christ and every historical event that has happened is in the bible right down to what is happening today.

[@stevemymind3947]

"I'm not going to deal with Josephus" That was a classic dodge of the most widely considered forgery insert by historians.

[@jerrylanglois7892]

Josephus was not a contemporary of jesus and only speaks of him from the position of hearsay so whatever he says about him is not valid.

[@mrrolandlawrence]

he's not dealing with much. being very vague on everything. shifting the burden of proof at every opportunity. using "faith glasses" as the norm. to be fair he is a really polished BSer.

[@jerrylanglois7892]

@@mrrolandlawrence Yes, just another disingenuous hustler... The most pathetic, deplorable people.

[@misterauctor7353]

Actually, it's not widely considered forgery. In fact, most scholars think it's original, but some parts were added in later.

[@jerrylanglois7892]

@@misterauctor7353 It was added in the 4th century ( an interpolation ) to try and make the church look legitimate... just more christian deceit.

[@big_goat]

The christian argument was to deflect. If there was a Jesus what happen to his blood line? They would of been held as royalty. But they disappear when Jesus disappears!

[@Achill101]

Many historical people leave no bloodline.

[@feydrautha012]

I'm kind of surprised that a person wielding great magical powers would not have a contemporary writers/historians/leaders writing a great deal about that individual.

[@wmthewyld]

FACT: Between 33 AD and 313 AD (280 years) not one person ever wrote that Jesus was a myth or didn't exist. Those that say Jesus was a myth, present your evidence.

[@blindmify]

+Idiot atheist The church destroyed most of the evidence and they built churches on every site and burned the people alive who wouldn't go along with the story. Jesus was no more real than Zeus, Apollo or Horus. You're talking about a GOD allegedly being born of a VIRGIN on earth (lol ridiculous), you aren't talking about an ordinary person. The entire idea is so stupid I cant even contemplate it.

[@wmthewyld]

Moo " Jesus was no more real than Zeus, Apollo or Horus" prove this fatuous claim.

[@blindmify]

+Idiot atheist You prove I dont have an invisible pink polka dotted elephant in my front pocket that can make people look stupid first.

[@wmthewyld]

Moo When you post about your delusion, I'll comment then. This is a posting about the existence of Jesus.You made the claim "Jesus was no more real than Zeus, Apollo or Horus". Now I want proof what you said is true. You made the claim, now you have the burden of proof.

[@theenglishlearningchannel259]

+Idiot atheist , There is no evidence for the existence of Jesus. If you have any evidence that would be admissible in a court of law, come up with it. To non-believers we just don't give a damn whether he existed or not, he really has not made much of a difference!

[@joanlynch5271]

Josephus, the Acts of the Apostles, the other gospels that were not allowed in the Bible, they all make reference to the same person. The Islamic books refer to Mary and Jesus. It was illegal to start your own religion at the time, their leader was killed publicly. They had reason to be quiet. There are at least three burial sites that refer to the same person. Even though he probably isn't buried in three locations, just that he was buried somewhere shows he exists. How many pages in the Bible refer directly to him? You don't have to believe that he was God but there is plenty of evidence concerning his existing. Why would the Romans make up his existence, write a bunch of stories about Him, blaming the Jews for what happened to him, if he never ever existed?

[@wynwilliams6977]

Let me save people the trouble of watching: NO, no he did not exist.

[@theresonlyonegender1471]

What year is it? It's not 2015 for you because the term AD means after death, but who's death? Jesus Christ. Obviously anyone who believes in Jesus knows Jesus died 2015 years ago, but can you sir explain to me what year it is for you? It can't be 2015 because you claim God and Jesus don't exist. And can you also explain illuminati? The satanist group that opposes God and Jesus?

[@wynwilliams6977]

Jeff Lucas "It can't be 2015 because you claim God and Jesus don't exist. " what an inane thing to say :D By your logic most of the months of the year do not exist for YOU as they are named after gods you do not believe in as are the days of the week which are named after the sun, the moon and the planets which in turn are named after gods ;) so for you weekdays do not exist either :D We are more and more using ACE and BCE After the christian era and before the christian era. "And can you also explain illuminati? The satanist group that opposes God and Jesus?" The Illuminati does not exist here this explains it: rationalwiki.org/wiki/Illuminati God(s) do not exist - relax you are FREE of supernatural interference and judgment go ahead and mastrubate, god ain't watching ;)

[@paulj6662]

+Jeff Lucas You think AD stands for after death? ha ha, no it does not, it is Anno Domini, you idiot, nor did the imaginary Jesus die 2015 years ago, that was his supposed birth, you idiot. and it is all dated that way by the church, many years later. Illumination, shedding light on the bullshit, that is all religion.

[@daveyjyong]

Paul J t

[@misterauctor7353]

Actually. Yes, yes he did exist.

[@Roedygr]

Your Christians drives me nuts. Everytime he fields a questions, he avoids it and goes off on a tangent.

[@williamtolbert8080]

JUST REMEMBER THIS MY FRIEND, IN THE ENTIRE BIBLE THERE IS NO DESCRIPTION OF THIS MAN CALLED JESUS. IF IN TODAYS WORLD, A PERSON WAS HEALING PEOPLE AND FEEDING FIVE THOUSAND PEOPLE WITH TWO LOAVES OF BREAD, AND RAISING THE DEAD, DON'T YOU THINK SOMEONE WOULD DESCRIBE THAT PERSON, YOU BET THEY WOULD. CELEBRITISM HASN'T CHANGED THAT MUCH THROUGH TIME. ALSO I THINK THE DATES AND TIME IS WRONG WHEN THE MAN JESUS WAS SUPPOSE TO HAVE LIVED. THE MIDDLE EAST AT THE TIME THE BIBLE SAYS HE LIVED WAS A WARRING COUNTRY SIDE WITH THE ROMAN IN CHARGE. I USE TO BE A BIBLE BELIEVING CHRISTIAN, NOT SO MUCH ANYMORE. THE GOSPELS ARE A CUT AND PASTE STORY.

[@philiposkiros4535]

Did u love Jesus

[@ΚωνσταντινοςΠαναγοπουλος-υ7τ]

@@williamtolbert8080 that doesn't mean Jesus didn't exist as a historical figure. Obviously it's your wright to lose your faith, but in that case you don't really have to deny the existence of Jesus.

[@frankcollins4743]

@@ΚωνσταντινοςΠαναγοπουλος-υ7τ All you have is wishful thinking, no evidence.

[@davelouie131]

thanks, you can start by reading 📚 these books The secret Adam, a study of nasoraen gnosis. Hillel the elder ,the emergence of classical Judaism. Fragments of a Faith forgotten. Antiquity unveiled Ancient Voices from the spirit Realm. The works of Philo Jesus scroll 📜 The Grail Cypher Blessed city of edessa Simon magus GRS mead The Great Treatise of Seth The Galilee Shaman Operation Messiah, book only make sense when you know Paul in this book is Josephus Flavius and Jesus in this book is King Izates of Edessa. Good fictional books to study are Mentu-HotepThe Spirit of the Medjay and The book 📖 The Way of the Djedi force of one.

[@Loomer27]

This JP is correct. Maybe the letter from Paul to Seneca was not about a real event, maybe it was a thought experiment. But then the same can be said that maybe the story of Jesus was not a real event, maybe it was a thought experiment.

[@greggor07]

I tend to agree with Hitchens on this. As he says; the elaborate fakery of the story of nativity and other stuff around this Nazarene figure, which falls apart at every turn when it comes to historical facts...the enormous effort to put his family in Betlehem in order for the prophecy to be fulfilled, when in fact there WAS no census at the time...and so on, would actually suggest that there was some deluded charismatic figure from Nazareth, whom then later writers tried to put in Betlehem at the time of his birth, the whole David line on top of that, which is also bs...etc. After all there was a whole lot of crazy, apocalyptic preachers at this time, many sects, it was a time of religious fervor. It's not so far-fetched to think a charismatic schizophrenic with a group of devoted followers did in fact exist. His theology on the other hand is rubbish, his message incoherent and a lot of things about him were probably added later in order to make him more god-like.

[@wmthewyld]

+Goran Greggor What nonsense. You atheists and your fairy tales. Fact is, there was a census. You just accept the facts.

[@greggor07]

+Idiot atheist lol...yeah, those damn facts! Hope you're being sarcastic...

[@wmthewyld]

***** "Nobody wrote about Jesus while he was alive" SO WHAT? "those writing about him had no reason to think their story could ever be verified so they could make up whatever they wanted without fear of contradiction" Is nonsense all you got? You prove that atheist lack common sense, reasoning and logic.

[@greggor07]

+woosung58 It doesn't seem to be the case of just making "the story interesting". At the time the first gospels were written down, people who knew people living around the time of Jesus were still alive, seems more likely they would've known this figure was a guy from Nazareth. That doesn't work however, because it doesn't fulfill the prophecy, so naturally they would adjust that. And Hitchens wasn't convinced of the historicity of Jesus, he just said it was plausible.

[@notofthisworld5267]

Jesus may have existed.... BUT, does that mean he was some holy guy, who worked miracles? NO! I believe there could have been a man that believed in a god. He could be a bit fanatical much like many religious ppl are. I believe he was written in stories, however some of it was exaggerated. It made it's way to present day. It means absolutely nothing because a man was crucified because of faith. Many ppl in history were crucified.

[@buntoskiffler]

***** For sex, repeat 21 times a day "By Jesus Christ's stripes I was sexed." and BELIEVE THAT YOU WERE SEXED ALREADY. -b ps. HNY

[@davelouie131]

thanks, you can start by reading 📚 these books The secret Adam, a study of nasoraen gnosis. Hillel the elder ,the emergence of classical Judaism. Fragments of a Faith forgotten. Antiquity unveiled Ancient Voices from the spirit Realm. The works of Philo Jesus scroll 📜 The Grail Cypher Blessed city of edessa Simon magus GRS mead The Great Treatise of Seth The Galilee Shaman Operation Messiah, book only make sense when you know Paul in this book is Josephus Flavius and Jesus in this book is King Izates of Edessa. Good fictional books to study are Mentu-HotepThe Spirit of the Medjay and The book 📖 The Way of the Djedi force of one.

[@davelouie131]

Great Read🙏, In John 8: 48, they asked Jesus is he possessed by a demon and is he Samaritan, Jesus denies being possessed by a demon but he does not deny being Samaritan. That’s huge because according to my research 🧐, Apollonius of Tyana is the son of Glaphyra and Herod Archealus who is half Samaritan, because his mother was the Samaritan woman 👩 named Malthace, so this would of meant that Apollonius of Tyana grandmother 👵 was Samaritan, because his grandmother was Malthace the Samaritan woman. So this why Apollonius didn’t deny being Samaritan, Now Apollonius mother Glaphyra was Cappadocia and of Armenian,Persian descent. Apollonius trave to Taxila India With Apostle Thomas or Damis, the stories Jesus traveling to India come from Apollonius travels to India. Apollonius would say the kingdom of heaven (Pleroma) is within. You can do greater works than me. You are all gods. The truth shall set you free. Apollonius of Tyana has a quote stating that God, who is the most beautiful being, cannot be influenced by prayers or sacrifices and has no wish to be worshiped by humans, but can be reached by a spiritual procedure involving nous ( intellect) because he himself is pure nous and nous is thr greatest faculty of humankindApollonius was a believer in the Monad ( Monism) and Nous while Simon Magus believe in Gnosis. Now Apollonius was a metaphycian & healer medicine man doctor who practiced the Orphic tradition like the Pythagorean’s, he is the Gnostic Paul and was known as Meanander of Cappareteia, if you type Cappareteia in Google images then Cappadocia pops up instead. He was also known in the Bible as Jesus Bar Elymas and Apollo’s which was short for Apollonius. He was part of the ancient sect of the Therapeutae of Asclepius and affiliated with the Therapeutae Essenes of Egypt and Apollonius also learned under Gamaliel , Hillel The Elder grand son , this could explain Apollonius of Tyana love for humanity similar to Hillel the Elder. And yes Apollonius also studied under Simon Magus under the name Menander of Cappareteia. Hillel the Elder was at a ongoing battle with the Jews known as the school 🏫 of Shammai. Apollonius of Tyana was a believer in the Golden Rule like Hillel the Elder 🧓 and Apollonius was a Orator also so he taught to the Jews that they are gods themselves and trust in thy self and do not follow a fictional god of Error, instead use Nous and follow the Monad within you. Apollonius teachings would of been the Osiris or Farther = The Monad, The Kingdom of Heaven = Pleroma &The Tree of Life, the Fruits = the Spheres and thoughts, the light Body temple = The Chakra points of the Soul. Simon Magus was the Shaman who worked behind the scenes, his teaching of the Pleroma = The Flower 🌸 of Life, Holy Spirit =Sophia Divine Spark= MAAT, the Christ Energy = Heru or Nous, the Sophia = the Soul and Nous = the Son. Apollonius believe in Monism which believe in the Monad, while the Zadikim Jesus of Gamala aka Jesus Malathiel believe in the dangerous Monotheism. Emanuel Sweedenborg concept ✨ of the Grand Spiral is the Monad . Walter Russell has two good books 📚 called Tbe secret of light and Atomic Suicide. Their were two types of Essenes, one was the Therapeutae Essenes of Egypt and Mandaeans of Iraq and The Other was The Militant Zealots Essenes of the Qumran who wrote the Dead Sea Scrolls. Their leader was King Manu ( King Izates) of Edessa. In the Bible he is known as Jesus Bar Abbas and Jesus Justus. He is also known as Jesus of Gamala and Jesus Malathiel. his brother Monobaz II (A.KA Menahem Ben Judah) was known in the Bible as Chuza who was wife of Joanna. Joanna historical name was Johanna grand daughter of Theophilus and daughter of Johnathan. In the Bible their were two johns one was male and one was female. That’s some pictures of Saint John was female and some was male. Josephus calls Glaphyra a virgin, this could try to indicate her Armenian and Persian Heritage. Apollonius in the book Antiquity Unveiled says he spoke a Samaritan tongue 👅 and Josephus Flavius was jealous of him. He and Josephus was a part of a group known as the Sons of Suns. Unlike him Josephus Flavius was connected with those other Jews and Josephus Flavius wanted POWER 💥 so he was also connected with the Roman Empire, when those other Jews aligned with the Roman Empire, then you got the Catholic Church ⛪️. Josephus captured women. Apollonius respected women because he was a Neo-Pythagorean. The Ossaraen was a group of Zealot Jewish Warriors of Qumran, their leader was Jesus Malathiel in antiquity Unveiled Ancient Voices From the spirit Realm is Jesus of Gamala before it was his farther Judas of Galilee and his brother Menahem Ben Judah. Jesus of Gamala is king Izates II who is King 👑 Jesus who wears the crown 👑 on his head. more information on King Jesus can be found in the Mara bar Serapion Document, in the Messiah Cesar The Flavian Dynasty along with Josephus Flavius, Titus Flavius and Flavius Constantine created the Bible, more information can be found in Antiquity Unveiled: Ancient Voices from the Spirit Realms by Jonathan M. Roberts, and another member was Jesus Ben Ananias, in the gnostic text Great treatise of Seth he is known as Simon of Cyrene. In the great treatise of Seth is where Simon Magus critique Judaism as the same way Sid Gautama critique old Hinduism 🕉. In Ralph Ellis book King Jesus on Pg. 122-130 , Ralph Drops strait gems about Simon Magus and his Devastating attacks on Christianity . Remember in the Old Testament God, doesn’t like Paganism and Bible makes Simon Magus the Villain. The earliest images of Jesus in Egypt and Israel , you would see a very tanned man with dark Curly Afro. This is Simon Magus. Simon Magus was a Shaman of Egyptian and Samaritan Jewish origin, that connects with the Medjay and tribal Kemetic Spiritual Egyptians ( Kemeticism ) which and the Ophite Gnostics. Kemeticism is similar to the Shinto in Japan , the concept of the Neteru is similar to Kami in Shinto .Grand son of Simon Boethus and relative to Miriam the 2nd. Simon Magus was a spiritual warrior who was connected with the Naasenes , read the Great Treatise of Seth, in that Gnostic text, Simon Magus exposes the other Jewish sect Bloodline that connects with the Hyksos. Simon Magus was a believer in Sophia which is the feminine energy that connects with MAAT, Simon Magus was indeed a Shaman who worked behind the scenes, he taught like Theatrical teacher, his teaching was based on the Pleroma and the Flower 🌸 of Life , Aeons & The NETERU and the Metron Cube. It was also based on original Buddhism ☸️ and Buddha criticism on the false creator god who is MahBrahma who Simon Magus equates with Yaldabaoth. Buddhism ☸️ may have also influenced Simon Magus Gnosticism. Sid Gautama describes Matter as several forms of whirl pools. Simon Magus is known as the farther of Gnosticism. Simon was a Gnostic and disciple of John the Baptist. Simon was also known as the farther of all heretics. Simon Magus also spent time in Alexandria Egypt learning under Philo of Alexandria the philosopher, studying Medicine, he also studied Greek philosophy, especially Heraclitus and original Buddhism ☸️ and his ancestors Egyptians philosophy . He believed if his students have good 😌 faith themselves they should do better works then him. Simon Magus teaching carried on through Menander A.KA. Apollonius of Tyana and Saturnius the Gnostic,Valentinus , Basilides and Marcion. Simon teaching focus 🧘‍♀️ big on the Forces of Nature and Sophia and believe in your self. Simon Magus taught with his consort Helen in theatrical way to illustrate ideas and symbols. Helen was also a disciples John the Baptist. As a child Simon studied under Philo of Alexandria, and learned his Greek philosophy and history of the Djedi, Magi and Medjay and Magi = Shamanism. Best female Gnostic to study is Gnostic Marcellina and Neoplatonist Hypatia , the Catholic Church ⛪️ created a fictional Hypatia character known as Saint Catherine of Alexandria, but their is no such person of Saint Catherine of Alexandria, but their was a NeoPlatonist known as Hypatia . Jedi = Magi sound, Je’daii = Medjay.

[@krunvanthovishwamaaryam]

@@davelouie131 excellent ❤️

[@paulrichards6894]

the guy said bart erhmann believes in a jesus but is an atheist so that means it must be true............think bart may have another reason ......$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[@tomsmith7742]

A mortal one- maybe. An immortal one- ridiculous. A 2,000 year old preposterous fable.

[@eddieking2976]

Positive claims require positive evidence. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

[@rookiefreediver7522]

So to prove the big bang happened do we need extraordinary evidence? If you say yes then how would you define extraordinary? Could not someone who wants to believe in an eternal Universe use this horrible argument against the big bang as well. That being said we do have extraordinary evidence. Read the books The Case for Christ and Cold Case Christianity....if you are open to the evidence.

[@rookiefreediver7522]

Their books are very well written and very interesting and not at all crap. You should try rereading them then try reading some of William Lane Craig's arguments regarding the historical Jesus. They present plenty of extraordinary evidence.

[@DogmaDisputant]

Who has the better philosophy Optimus Prime or Jesus? Jesus: There is no salvation except through me. Optimus prime: Freedom is the right of all sentient beings.

[@benjamintamang]

A. Hutsona maybe you can argue for the time being . But who are you to claim this. Are you yourself a person of that era to claim this. As for your proof,that was also written by a man. And if you are wise enough , think that man can be liar. I can give you the proof of existence of god. The proof is bible itself. Bible connects almost every known civilizations of the world. Babylon, Roman empire,Greek and many else...

[@benjamintamang]

Jesus said salvation comes through only me because he is the only one who came from heaven , the home of God. So only he knows the way to heaven. Its a simple logic but must be taken deeply in heart and mind...

[@DogmaDisputant]

Benjamin Pakhrin "I can give you the proof of existence of god. The proof is bible itself. Bible connects almost every known civilizations of the world. Babylon, Roman empire,Greek and many else..." The Bible isn't evidence for its main character, God (Yahweh) and his magical powers. Just as the book Harry Potter isn't evidence for a boy named Harry, or for the existence of wizards and magic. Just because the book contains real cities like London, real train stations and the country of England, this does not mean that it's a real account of Harry's adventures. It's fictional just like the Bible. Yahweh, Satan, angles, talking snakes, talking donkeys, talking bushes, people rising from the dead, people living to be hundreds of years old, a women turning into a pillar of salt, a man killing an army with the jaw of a donkey, a man living inside a large fish, a 900 year old drunk who built an ark with two of every kind of animal on Earth placed on board, virgin birth, walking on water, water into wine, fish multiplication magic, magic healing, etc. They are all fictional stories. You may say the Bible isn't fiction when it contains many elements of fiction. It's no different than the Iliad and Odyssey and we call them mythology. Just because ancient books contain historical events and places, it does not imply that everything in them are nonfiction. Books are not evidence in and of themselves of what they contain within there pages. The Bible is as much the word of an imaginary God as the Iliad and Odyssey are. Men wrote the Bible, men compiled it, men edited it, men removed parts of it, men printed it, men distributed it, and today deluded men and women interpret it and use it as a distorted lens with which to view the world around them.

[@DogmaDisputant]

Benjamin Pakhrin "Jesus said salvation comes through only me because he is the only one who came from heaven , the home of God. So only he knows the way to heaven." Heaven and Hell are not places. They are fictional. The mythological concepts of Heaven and Hell were taken directly from Greek religion by early Christians. They plagiarized them. Heaven and Hell are first revealed to us in the Odyssey and the Iliad. Not the Bible. Along with the Odyssey, the Iliad is among the oldest extant works of Western literature, and its written version is usually dated to around the eighth century BC. Two thirds of the Bible (the Old Testament) does not mention Hell at all. "Sheol", the Hebrew word that is sometimes translated as Hell, only means "grave" by definition, and it is where everyone in the Old Testament went when they died--good or evil, Jew or Gentile. Thus the Old Testament does not contain the concept of Hell! As for Heaven, The OT does not say anything about an eternal life, or “being saved”. With all the laws, decrees, and commandments mentioned, it talks about how the Israelites would be blessed in this life if they obeyed God. Heaven and Hell are not mentioned until the New Testament. The gospels weren't written until the year A.D. 70. That's 870 years after the Greek Heaven and Hell concepts were already theologically established.

[@loksterization]

Jesus, of course. But he was (and is) much more than a philosopher. He is God incarnate.

[@monsterslayer4317]

The very best Christianity can do is to claim that it cannot be proven that Christianity is a myth. That is worlds away from proving the historicity of the Jesus Christ story. It is absurd to imagine that an all loving god named Yahweh would have left the fate of every human soul on such a vaporous foundation.

[@cyber6sapien]

Also there is a false equivalence being suggested here. If Galileo, Shakespeare and Socrates didn't exist, IT WOULDN'T MATTER! The works speak for themselves, regardless of who created them! With regards to whether or not a historical Jesus existed, let's just say the stakes would be a little higher.

[@gerardgauthier4876]

Jesus is supposed to have the greatest impact on mankind but the history books are virtually silent on him... Hmmm!

[@misterauctor7353]

An argument from silence?

[@Erborne1979]

Considering it's been proven that Moses and Abraham and all those people never existed then that means it would be impossible for Jesus to be their Messiah so therefore he could have never existed

[@TheFINZFAN]

Non-believers don't see it now, but I PROMISE one day you will find yourself at the throne of Jesus.

[@jerrylanglois7892]

Prove it.

[@TheFINZFAN]

@@jerrylanglois7892 When you feel the Holy Spirit enter your body, you will never ask for proof again.

[@jerrylanglois7892]

@@TheFINZFAN No thanks, I don't believe in ghost anymore than I believe in angels, demons, devils, spirits, etc,...

[@tiyopaeng2425]

I hope it's not yet too late for them to realize the existence of the true God.

[@jerrylanglois7892]

Prove it.

[@AlexanderDuBoisEsq]

The Bible is a collection of fairy tales.

[@nanomantube]

Oh because you say so, therefore it must be true. That's perfectly logical

[@nathalia4550]

How could the Bible be a "Collection of Fairy tales"?

[@AlexanderDuBoisEsq]

Natalie Espinoza If you it and try to rationalize some of the biblical stories, they are incompatible with logic. Example, 15 cubits of water covered the entire Earth. That is 22 feet of water, because a cubit is 1.5 ft. Genesis has 2 creation stories in Chapters 1 & 2. They both couldn't be true. Exodus has Moses leading the Israelite s out of Egypt, wandering in the Sinai for 40 years, yet to this day, never has an archaeological artifact been found to substantiate human mass migration through the Sinai Peninsula. There are hundreds more errant stories. Read your own bible.

[@nanomantube]

Alexander DuBois Why then are there references to a worldwide flood in other ancient cultures outside of the bible? Look at the Sumerian text from a tablet called Eridu Genesis that refers to a flood that destroys mankind and a few were saved by an ark. Just one example. And for the Exodus? Look up Nuweibaa in the gulf of aqaba. There is a wide landmass with a road that goes through the mountain on the left where the people of Israel must have gone. Exodus 14 refers to how "wilderness has shut them in" and pharaoh pursued them and they had nowhere to go. The map looks conveniently like that. Go on the other side of the gulf and you find some other interesting things in Saudi Arabia. Look up "Split rock Horeb" and just look at the images of a giant stone split in half with evidence of water erosion all over it....in the middle of a desert. (Exodus 17:5). Then further some have claimed to find the real mount Sinai with some interesting pieces of evidence. Look up Jabel el Lawz. there's a mountain with a blackened peak with burned rocks strangely out of place from the salmon colored stone in the area. Exodus 19:18 refers to this as God came down on the mountain in fire. There is a stone alter in the same vicinity with Egyptian style markings of a cow, the bible talks about how Israel made a golden calf idol and built an alter for it. There's markings for many other things in the area. I think there is a lot more evidence for the bible than people give credit to

[@AlexanderDuBoisEsq]

nanomantube The only other text that parallels the Noah flood story is that of Gilgamesh in the Hindu religion. The golden calf stories came out of Egyptian mythology . And none of the Saudi stuff authenticates the Exodus. Neither does Egyptian or Hebrew literature make authentic the exodus. I am not here to argue with you, just to relate the facts, from a historical point of view.

[@ETERNALCYCLES]

I find it strange how nobody knew of any tomb of jesus till the story of jesus came out and people went looking for it 300 years later.

[@frankzakzak]

Caesar had massive lifetime coinage with his portrait and name. So did Brutus with Ides of march on coin.

[@interqward1]

+Mike Williams This is a much more telling point than people are often prepared to talk about. I wonder why you mention this?

[@crobulari2328]

Almighty God definately does exist. After all, human beings invented him.

[@sandythornton5126]

How so?

[@bohemianwriter1]

+Sandy Thornton Created by humans to control otherb humans.. Roman emperors elecated themselves to gods all the time back in the day.

[@joeyfeep2475]

+Sandy Thornton in our holy brains

[@bobmead7208]

+Crobular I Go to my web page UsandGod.com and youtube has a video that is going to reveal the greatest textual evidence ever discovered about God. Best Wishes

[@joeyfeep2475]

greatest texual evidence huh?!?

[@mitchellrose3620]

Humphreys and Truth vs JP Satan and lies.

[@TruthBeTold7]

Read "The Historical Jesus," by Gary Habermas; and "The Historical Reliability of the Gospels," by Blomberg. Only an ignorant atheist teenager would deny Jesus' lived. These are not scholarly people.

[@paullever2085]

Well maybe you should provide some falsifiable evidence? If you can???

[@JohnCashin]

The plain and simple fact of the matter is that if Jesus really existed and really was the son of God then we wouldn't need any historical evidence to verify it, this Jesus himself would be able to verify his existence to those of us who are skeptical, like a supreme being or the son of a supreme being ought to be able to do, this being should be able to appear to the whole world rather than just a select few which is all that seems to happen (a select few that had mental issues, drug problems and people who are just not very bright to put it politely tend to be the kind of people that get these 'visions'), now of course I don't really think that Jesus will ever appear before me or any of us who doubt his existence because people who don't exist tend not to make an appearance....more like they have this tendency to be absent, out of sight, nowhere to be seen.....a bit like God is for most of us Lol but I can't be bothered to do a load of research like some skeptics do to see if they can find any evidence because although I admire them for making the effort, I feel they're wasting their time trying to prove something that seems pretty self evident, namely, the Bible and the things it tells us about events, people etc, including Jesus can't be trusted to be facts. The other big question that begs to be asked about Christianity which often isn't is why would a supreme and everlasting being need a son?...or for that matter a daughter?, not that the 'daughter of God' has ever been suggested in Christianity but the principle would be the same, think about it, this being is supposed to be the highest of high and eternal with no time when he/she/it will have to give up their reign right?, so why would they need any form of offspring?, the whole idea of Jesus being the 'son of God' is nonsensical, the position of being 'the son' of the almighty would be an aimless one since he would always be 'the son' and never a/the father himself one day....ohhhhh....whoa....whoa...WHOA!....we've got yet another problem here Houston....Jesus and his father God ARE supposed to be one.....errrrrrrr??????......so God is his own son and his own father?.....or....are they two God beings?, well there's actually three in total if you include the whole Trinity but it's the idea of 'son and father' who are supposed to be both one and the same God that I find the most difficult to get my head around....if it was true, even Christians debate over this one. So Christianity has so many problems even within the highly unlikely realms of the possibility that it might be true, never mind the question of whether we can even believe that Jesus existed and was the son of God or not but it would at least be a start if we could at the very least establish that, the problem is that we can't, there is no straightforward evidence, only arguable evidence that you have to spend a lifetime trying to dig out by travelling around the world to various regions and you need to have a super high IQ or at least a high level of specialist knowledge with a lot of patience to put together all the findings to make a case, I don't have enough of either and so I have to choose to not believe it, that doesn't mean I'm sure it's false, like most Atheists I don't claim to be sure there's no God or Gods, my position is one of being unconvinced by the proposition for the existence of such a being or beings. If this God really does exist then rather than expecting me to look for them they should come to me if they really care enough and he/she/it should know exactly what they have to do to prove their existence to me, if they're not prepared to do that and expect me to make a decision based on such hard to get evidence then I'm not sure if I want to know such a being, if they're not prepared to meet me halfway when I am being open and perfectly willing to have my mind changed then what kind of a being is that?, certainly not a loving and caring one surely?

[@wmthewyld]

it is amazing how you can write so much and say so little.

[@JohnCashin]

SHawking Ha ha, I know what you mean, I can't deny that I do go on a bit but what you have to appreciate and I'm sure you do is that the question of Jesus's existence, who he was and what he was all about has been going on ever since he was allegedly here, so to try to express a view on such a time worn and complex debate in just a few sentences would be rather arrogant of me Lol, to sum up my point in as few words as possible, the answer is.....I don't know if Jesus really existed and if he was the son of God or not, I would love to know the answer but assuming he really exists he's not exactly making it easy for me, that's what I'm trying to say, many thanks

[@sidneya.dorsett860]

Who'd try to prove the supernatural by science? Commonsense would tell you to identify something that's supernatural and prove that God does it. Identify a prediction identify it's occurrence and satisfy yourself God exists.

[@wmthewyld]

John Cashin Romans spoke of Jesus, that's evidence enough.

[@sidneya.dorsett860]

It's unreasonable to conjecture that : "... I don't really think that Jesus will ever appear before me or any of us who doubt his existence because people who don't exist tend not to make an appearance." Who was a bigger skeptic (and murderer) than the Apostle Paul before he was converted? Common-sense indicates that if God provided scientists at the University of Leicester with knowledge to find DNA, which let's us tell who our "earthly" father is, that God would definitely provide us with the means to know who He, our "Heavenly Father" is. Was Jesus supernatural and therefore God? Go and examine Jerusalem and see if you can find the second temple that was built by King Herod replacing Solomon's temple. Go to the Bible and see if Jesus said "not one block would remain on another." Prophecy is the formula.

[@suichinggo8236]

The fact that the two groups involved with the issue from the beginning, the stakeholders, the Rabbinic Jews (the priests are the ones who requested the crucifixion of Jesus) and the followers of Jesus, are still debating whether Jesus was the Messiah is the strong evidence of His existence. And the fact that the group of people in the vicinity of Israel, OF DIFFERENT RELIGION, the Arab Muslims, believed in the existence of Jesus as a prophet, support that truth.

[@suichinggo8236]

@William Burns To believe that it's possible for people to conspire to build-up or destroy a person with lies is sensible, but to believe that people will conspire to argue to the point of persecutions about a non-existing being is ....?

[@TheSmithDorian]

Ken dropped the ball here. By suggesting that Tacitus was a forgery that subject dominated the conversation for a big chunk of the video. It wasn't necessary. Tacitus was writing 80 years after Jesus supposedly died. He was writing 50 years after Christianity had been established in Rome. Christians were living in Rome for all of Tacitus' adult life.He's naturally going to pick up bits and pieces about what they do and what they believe. He's not interested in whether the figure at the center of their beliefs was real or not. All he's concerned about is that Christians believed X and that they did Y. To regard Tacitus as evidence for a historical Jesus is an act of desperation.

[@sidneya.dorsett860]

Christians admit that lies were told. But why would Christians go through the trouble of examining the record and saying that certain Books are unreliable for doctrine and have the stamp of "suspicious" or being a pious lie. The point is that Christians have done everything possible to identify the pure from the impure, e.g. the Apocrypha which was once included in the Geneva and King James Bibles (but with a note that it was good devotional reading and not more).

[@TheSmithDorian]

Sidney Dorsett "The point is that Christians have done everything possible to identify the pure from the impure" But it was Christians that wrote the impure texts too. So what you really mean is that one faction within the early Christian Church was able to get its preferred texts into the NT Canon - while others were not. But how did they decide what was pure and what was impure? What criteria did they use? I can't think of a single characteristic that all the NT texts share that could be considered as qualifying a text to be inspired scripture. Can you?

[@sidneya.dorsett860]

TheSmithDorian Don't confuse things. It's easy to establish what should be included. If given the task to decide what to go in the New Testament you'd identify what e.g. upheld the principle that Jesus was God, had come in the flesh and would die for man. If you were dealing with the Old Testament you'd establish what the Jews included. Then you'd establish what prophesied about Jesus. I don't have any problem accepting Jesus existed and was God. It's made easier because Philip the deacon/evangelist existed. His grave is in Turkey I'm told. He Baptized the Ethiopian eunuch in the Gaza strip after explaining how the things he was trying to read in the scroll of the Book of Isaiah was a prophecy given 700 hundreds years before about Jesus who had recently been crucified but resurrected. Philip mysteriously vanished in plain sight, thereby confirming to the Ethiopian that he had done the right thing by getting baptized. Atheists will have difficulty explaining the supernatural as they have no personal experience themselves and God calls them fools. They don't have any faith; not as much as a little mustard seed. He'd work with, in and through them if they had minuscule faith.

[@TheSmithDorian]

Sidney Dorsett "Don't confuse things" Point taken. You're obviously confused enough as it is without me causing you any more. " It's easy to establish what things should be included and what to omit" it's a shame that all those hundreds of Bishops and Church leaders didn't have you around when they were trying to work it out. Obviously you could have done in 12 months what it took them over 250 years to achieve. "I don't have any problem accepting Jesus existed and was God. It's made easier because Philip the deacon/evangelist existed and his grave is in Turkey by all accounts" Well ... you've converted me. I'm now a believer. It seems so obvious to me now. I must have been blind. There is supposedly the grave of a 1st century evangelist in Turkey - so of course Jesus must be God. The logic is inescapable. This is just going to decimate the atheist community.They'll all be flocking to Church to start confessing their sins .. you watch.

[@sidneya.dorsett860]

TheSmithDorian They didn't need to have me around at all and they didn't need hundreds of Bishops/Churchmen either. A case in point is that the King James Bible translation was done by only 47 Anglican (Church of England) scholars and they did a fine job too I feel. Your sarcasm is unfounded. A simple reading of the history of the Bible will tell you what principles were used. The over-riding was commonsense I feel. It's not the mere existence of the grave but the fact that Philip the evangelist existed. The eunuch existed. And Philip was hardly likely to devote his life preaching about someone who was mere human and never resurrected. And that's not requiring much logic; and again only a little common-sense. Whether or not you accept Jesus is your business. It'd be unreasonable to think that God, who gave scientists the means to tell who their earthly father is conclusively by using DNA would not give us the slightest means of telling us that He, our Heavenly Father existed. He provided the formula when He said He is God and tells the end from the beginning. He says you are foolish as a scientist if you believe you can prove the supernatural by "science" when He's told you to prove He cannot lie when He says He knows the end from the beginning.

[@MatthewMcVeagh]

Who is Ken? Who is JP? Who is the interviewer? Is this a podcast or radio programme? What is its name? Date? What was the occasion of the debate? Does it have a name given to it by those who created it? Why isn't any of this information in the title, description or video image?

[@scottlouissmith2382]

Hey, slow down there snowflake! One question at a time.😰

[@hzq-yg8bj]

Scott Louis Smith the only one that’s a snowflake is you

[@ericsilberstein667]

Let’s also not forget about all the other Jesus-types who came before a Jesus.

[@neorich59]

I think there *may* have been some character wandering around in the Middle East 2000+ years ago to whom all sorts of things were attributed, particularly a retelling of all sorts of older myths in Jewish setting. But a few things are beyond doubt in my mind: 1. The dying-resurrecting God man thing is way older than Christianity, 2. There was no agreement among early Christians and for hundreds of years until the "truth," was forced on them. 3. Paul one of the earliest Christian writers never met Jesus and doesn't talk about an historical Jesus in his *authentic* letters. For those reasons (and others) I can't take the whole "story," literally, or even seriously.

[@neorich59]

And you know this how? In fact, I've been reading up about and pondering this for more than 30 years. If that's "lazy," or "minimal," then I'll wear it. Many "Christians," I've come across who regurgitate what they read in the Bible have never read, or even contemplated anything outside of it, let alone "investigated," it. I did say that I had "other," reasons, or perhaps you were too "lazy," to bother reading that far?

[@jamesmohr9168]

"1. The dying-resurrecting God man thing is way older than Christianity," Correlation is not causation. Just because there were similar stores before does not prove the story of Jesus is not real true. Further, life after death or resurrection from death is a common belief among many religious, even among some that would not have any knowledge of pre-Christian, middle-east mythology. It was also common in the 1st century to related people to others in the past. See Plutach's "Parallel Lives" for many examples. "2. There was no agreement among early Christians and for hundreds of years until the "truth," was forced on them." That does not prove that the story of Jesus was made up. Contradiction and historical errors are rampant in ancient texts. That by no means proves the core story is not true. In fact, if all of the stories were 100% exact, that would be evidence of collusion and thus evidence that the stories were made up. Differences between the stories is actually expected with ancient texts. "3. Paul one of the earliest Christian writers never met Jesus" Irrelevant. Ancient history is full of characters and events described by people who were not eyewitnesses. 3. "and doesn't talk about an historical Jesus in his authentic letters." Incorrect. Galatians is considered authentic and he talks about "*the* brother* of Jesus, not in a religious sense but a biological. The grammar as well as the context of the passage do not really allow for "brother" in a religious sense. "For those reasons (and others) I can't take the whole "story," literally, or even seriously." And you shouldn't. Interestingly enough, the number of Christians who take the entire bible as literally true is pretty small and limited primarily to the US and Australia.

[@neorich59]

"Just because there were similar stores before does not prove the story of Jesus is not real true." Nor, does that mean that there is any proof that it was? What it does indicate, IMO, is that given that there were so many of these stories circulating, that to claim all the things attributed to Jesus to be "different," or "true," in his case, to be highly dubious, without a substantial body of evidence to the contrary. Is there any? "Differences between the stories is actually expected with ancient texts." Quite, however, given all of the differences and they are legion, it became "necessary" for an attempt to enforce some sort of cohesion, instead of leaving things as they were and allowing a variance of opinion to remain, certain texts were dismissed, banned, burned and/or declared "heretical," interestingly enough though, I believe that any number of texts that made the final "edit," were, also declared "heretical," at some stage? What we have left, in the form of the Bible, depending, of course on which version you're looking at as the "definitive," version seems to be the only "source," of "evidence," that a man named Jesus Christ walked the earth in the manner contained within..there are, of course, the usual suspects regarding a few historical "verifications," while other contemporary historians are absolutely silent regarding events that could've been reported "far and wide." "Irrelevant. Ancient history is full of characters and events described by people who were not eyewitnesses." Totally relevant, the point I was attempting to make is that Paul, considered to be one of the "founders," of Christianity, given that he was writing *before* the Gospels seems *unaware* of and has little to say much about the "characters and events," of Jesus's "life," and "existence," and even if he met the "brother of Jesus," that doesn't authenticate the existence of the man himself.. "And you shouldn't. Interestingly enough, the number of Christians who take the entire bible as literally true is pretty small and limited primarily to the US and Australia." On that I can heartily agree, although, I'd like to see figures/estimates regarding Australia. I'd say that there are a significant number of people elsewhere in the world in various branches of "Christianity," that take the Bible literally, notably a few countries in Africa, such as Kenya and Nigeria. However, I'm more than a little concerned that in the "greatest nation on Earth," around about half the population do so? Even if all you say above is true, I'd not count it as any sort of evidence, of the Jesus of the Bible. Like I said, I think it's entirely possible that some character was walking around in the Middle East to whom all sorts of things were attributed and I *know* that I'm not alone in that opinion. I'd say that the burden of proof is on those who make outlandish claims about anything other than that about Jesus of "Nazareth." That, so far as I've seen, has yet to be supplied. If you have anything to offer that's different to what I've heard, over the years, then I'd be interested.

[@annettemacintosh117]

yes, you are right about the. name, it was Saul whom Jesus appeared to on the road to Damascus and wonderful that you credit Paul as having lived but are so quick to discredit the Whom he served - chuckle ;-)

[@23uvas]

It is one thing to think that someone existed in the past because of evidence. It is another to believe in the supernatural stories they told because....reasons.

[@OrthodoxChristian809]

There were no contemporary independent accounts of Jesus' existence. He was not a historical figure. He is a myth.

[@misterauctor7353]

There were no contemporary independent accounts of Alexander the Great.

[@AfrikanDevGrp]

Just a thought....Why NOT take a look OUTSIDE of the Biblical Scripture to "verify it?" I mean really if I applied to work for a company and needed my past to be verified they would NOT rely on MY word that I was a great guy...right? Of course not. So why then would one rely on the bible to verify its (or the existence of Jesus) validity? After growing up in the church for years and being the offspring of over 200 years of preachers, I've come to understand NOT believe that Jesus is the evolution of "Serapis Christus." Do your research before posting your "belief" after all some of us still believe in the Easter Bunny and Santa Clause both of which have SCARY origins. If you want to check out something even more interesting take a look a the account of Horus and his story. He had a Virgin Mother (Isis) and a Father (Osiris) and can you believe it, thousands of years before Serapis, Constantine or Jesus...HORUS was called The Light Of the World, oh yeah he was also the manifestation of God on Earth. Even some of the posts I have read have ended in Amen....which was also stolen from Amen Rah (the sUn of God) not (the sOn of God) as we were taught to believe. Christians ask yourself; What happened at Council of Nicea in 325AD? (real actual history...not belief) Folks it's time to grow up and seriously get real. We have ALL been lied to in the Biblical text that's why there are so many contradictions. Isn't it STRANGE that if the only reason for the existence of Jesus was to pay for the Sins committed by Adam....why is there NO account in ANY scripture of Jesus mentioning Adam....and finally for my black people out there still holding on tight to The Mighty name of Jesus! WHY would you adopt your oppressors faith after all that THEIR FAITH led them to do to YOU??......PLEASE don't take my word for ANYTHING.....Do your own research.....Open YOUR eyes....Ase'

[@juliusrhinehart798]

Jesus Christ and Serapis have absolutely nothing to do with eachother.

[@dougzembiec9995]

It's not even a debate any longer. We are about 99.5% sure JC never existed. I do however want to acknowledge the Hellenistic Greek speaking Jews who wrote the gospels because they are amazingly well crafted and they do make the reader believe the stories were real

[@a.t.6322]

Doug Zembiec. I agree there is no debate as the vast majority of historians concur that Jesus did exist. Mythicism is based on nothing but conjecture and arguments from silence.

[@SugoiEnglish1]

Dumb comment. Scholars do not hold that consensus.

[@dougzembiec9995]

I am not referring to christian historians. Obviously because of faith they believe a messianic figure did exist. Once you exclude the historians who believe Jesus existed because other historians believe Jesus existed all you are left with are the Mythicists.

[@dougzembiec9995]

Here's a point for you Christians to consider.Judea had approxiamately 500 000 people living in it. If the gospels are true then Jesus would have touched the lives either directly or indirectly of at least 100 000 . (feed 5000 plus women and kids) , feed 4000 plus women and kids , various other miracles etc etc .......... yet none of these eye witnesses wrote anything about him. The first person to write about Jesus did so 14+ years after his supposed existence and he never met Jesus and he had some kind of an apparition of the Jesus character. The next supposed person who wrote about Jesus was Mark and he never met Jesus ( although we know that Mark never wrote Mark because it was a document written long after he would have been dead and also written in highly eloquent greek which some peasant from galilee would not have been) The whole thing is one big myth. Much like the Roswell UFO crash . what started off as a weather balloon became a spaceship with 3 alien bodies

[@SugoiEnglish1]

It doesn't work that way. No scholar bases his/her judgment on others. Further, let's not only exclude "biased" Christian scholars, but atheist scholars as well. LOL.

[@teachingsofjesus8543]

"Whoever is near me is near the fire, and whoever is far from me is far from the Kingdom (Of God)!" (The Gospel Of Thomas82)

[@woff1959]

The historian is right. Anyone who understands basic historiography would have to accept that Jesus existed as a real person.

[@YOSUP315]

So the absolute best evidence for any Jesus ever existing is a single passage that if true, was written nearly a century after Jesus had already died, and for which the earliest remaining copy of the passage was made still centuries later and is now proven to have been modified. And all the records were preserved by the Christian church alone. And we know there many other cases of Christians forging evidence to support their religion. I'm not saying this PROVES Jesus never existed, but the one thing it does not do is give us any solid basis to believe he DID exist.

[@wmthewyld]

You're saying all the Romans who wrote about Jesus are wrong?

[@YOSUP315]

No, I'm actually making a much stronger claim. I'm saying we don't have any solid grounds to believe Romans DID write about Jesus.

[@wmthewyld]

***** how can you make such a statement with the amount of evidence there is that proves you wrong?

[@baryns6141]

wmthewyld Please list 'all the Romans.' If you do your research you'll find that list is very limited, sparse, and doesn't provide solid evidence for the existence of a Jesus who matches the NT gospel story.

[@wmthewyld]

Baryn S here is an article, from a neutral site, that gives evidence for a historical Jesus. It has both Romans and modern scholars giving evidence. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_Jesus

[@eddieking2976]

Did Jesus exist as an historical person? Most probably not. There is no GOOD evidence for that presumption. For further reading I suggest Dr.Richard Carrier's book On The Historicity Of Jesus and Robert M. Price The Case Against The Case For Christ.

[@eddieking2976]

+david s While I respect your right to have an opinion, I fail to see how an ad hominem attack on someone's character can be considered evidence. Exactly what are they "spinning"? And what evidence do you have to refute said "spin"?

[@annettemacintosh117]

The only book of any value regarding Jesus is the Bible. Therein are prophecies now fulfilled and eyewitnesses when wrote all the evidence needed to confirm His existence, not to mention all the evidence you see in nature which in itself shouts the praises of our Creator Jesus, Who is Himself God.

[@annettemacintosh117]

+david s yeah, I can see you are struggling with this one. i know that you'll feel differently when you get to know Jesus. have a lovely week :-)

[@annettemacintosh117]

+david s - chuckle - earlier today I was listening to a series on KZbin and came upon an interesting talk which for me, answered many of the things you addressed earlier on. If you would like, I could post it here for you to take a look at if you like - have a nice day :-)

[@annettemacintosh117]

+david s well, as I said, the answer to that question is also fielded in the series I told you of earlier. You can find it on You tube if you search David Asscherick, the series is "why God?" talk no 4 entitled "who killed Jesus?" you will find the answers there :-). have a nice day :-)

[@officialmoderator1]

Even if the tales featuring the character we know as "Jesus" were based on the lives of a real person or persons, the legend has now overwhelmed the reality, and he has become a mere figurehead for a coprporate entity.

[@Roedygr]

If a Jesus lived today, and performed his miracles, surely they would be multiply recorded. Why did the 121 historians of Jesus's time ignore him? 1. he did nothing special. 2. he did not exist. 3. historians found the tales incredible. 4. something else

[@jackmyers2359]

One would also have to ask, why didn't jesus write some shit, the disciples, or any of the supposed 5000 witnesses?!!

[@diddymuck]

how about Roman persecution tossing any written evidence out and slaughtering those who overtly identified him as devine!? plausible enough?

[@raymondgrimaldi9207]

@@diddymuck not really...even the Jews have no records of him...all those miracles and no one...and I mean NO ONE... bothered to notice, or write anything down, except four or five people???

[@misterauctor7353]

@@raymondgrimaldi9207 "not really...even the Jews have no records of him" An argument from silence is a fallacy.

[@raymondgrimaldi9207]

@@misterauctor7353 an argument from 4 or people who never even met him,and only wrote anything down 20 to 70 years after his death,is a much bigger fallacy

[@Bobbel888]

0:00 That picture is right out of hell.

[@reggiesmith4960]

The name was common. The bible jesus is a allegory.

[@Reason_over_Dogma]

I'm an atheist but I think JP destroyed Ken. I believe the historical Jesus exist and that we should keep looking the same way we can keep looking for Alexander the great

[@Reason_over_Dogma]

***** I'm not saying Jesus did anything great. This guy may have not even be the guy we see him as. This guy is probably some dead guy that's unfalsifiable because he died and no one can find him or think to look into his death. Just a name. I've been reading gospel fictions by randel helms, great book. Makes me believe that James and Peter started this Jesus cult and Paul, who thought Jesus was an angel..didn't disagree in divinity but what his divinity meant.. I think he thought he'd have more authority being among the apostles, aka the cult followers that created the mythical Jesus.

[@rursus8354]

+John Brown is my homeboy. Yeah right. But Ken made one very good point: whenever Jesus is mentioned in the scriptures, one have to be *seriously* skeptical, since there were a lot of later scribes that scribbled the originals -- whether authored by outside observers or not -- to fulfill their personal faith. Traditional history science *should* add this rule to their arsenal of analysis tools.

[@Reason_over_Dogma]

Rursus Indeed. If Jesus exist in the bible, I think _very_ _very_ _very_ little of him exist in the bible. I really think all it is just a name of a rabbi priest and the gospels took off from there.

[@rursus8354]

+John Brown is my homeboy. Oh, the New Testament is full of competing theology, just look for the embarassments, such as for example that Jesus in one place denies his mother and his brothers, and in other places that "Jesus" could not do miracles in places where his mother and siblings were known. Other embarassments are: Jesus says "God why have you forsaken me?" on the cross, Jesus bar-Abbas (Jesus son of the Father) being freed instead of Jesus Messiah, 12 apostles in the gospels, but only 3 in the pauline letters ... A real Jesus can perhaps be perceived through the New Testament.

[@Reason_over_Dogma]

Rursus Jesus saying, Psalms 22:1 isn't a stretch for me. Its very possible if a jesus was crucified, he can quote that. My FAVORITE Laugh out loud moment is when Jesus feeds five thousand with a loaf of bread, then a couple lines later, he feeds four thousand with a loaf of bread and the apostles the second time, asked "man, how are we going to feed these people? totally aloof that Jesus just fed five thousand people before. Then a couple lines later, Jesus says don't you remember where I fed five thousand? then four thousand?

[@geraldamos292]

The gospels are fiction as is jesus..a good childrens story

[@jdaze1]

They are allegory plus scribal corruptions by misappropriated old testament prophecies.

[@zeus-cu4ft]

My question is for this guy JP can you give us the name of any historian who wrote at the time when Jesus was alive between 4 BC and 30 AD and not historians who wrote 100 years later??

[@Rooker11111]

",,,,The Koran is replete with faulty ethics and historical inaccuracies..."---ArmoftheLORD Same with the Bible.

[@brit1066]

Even if there is some historical evidence that a character like jesus DID exist, there is NO EVIDENCE that he was the son of a GOD.

[@brit1066]

Roborav CORRECT, but try telling the rabid hordes of Christ lovers that and they will try to burn you at the stake. Whatever happened to TURNING THE OTHER CHEEK.

[@annettemacintosh117]

Science-is-god yeah, willful blindness on your part I'd say

[@annettemacintosh117]

woosung58 sarcastic?

[@annettemacintosh117]

Science-is-god really, history differs with you on that, for it has always been those who love Him who have been persecuted!

[@brit1066]

Annette Macintosh The Catholic Church was founded by Peter who was described by JC as the ROCK. CATHOLICS LOVE JESUS, but the Catholic Church has a blood soaked history of murder, violence and lies against ANYONE WHO DARED TO DENY JC AND GOD. There was a time when the CHRISTIAN CHURCH WOULD HAVE BURNED PEOPLE LIKE ME ALIVE FOR SAYING WHAT WE SAY NOW. Are you blind deaf and dumb, HOW IN THE NAME OF SANITY CAN YOU SAY, THOSE WHO LOVED JC WERE THE ONES WHO WERE PERSECUTED. They were the ones DOING THE PERSECUTING. And it was not JUST THE CATHOLICS, so don't tell me the usual EXCUSE that Catholics do not represent those who TRULY love Jesus. ALL Christians fight and murder each other over the insanity of LOVING JESUS.

[@DavidWilliams-on9bu]

Why is it that these people cannot stay on point in a debate.? Tacitus does not mention "Jesus"...he mentioned "the Chrestus". Chrestos or Christos are phonetically interchangeable; 90% of people back then were illiterate....only the priests and the very wealthy or politicians were "scribes". Both words were used in writing, and despite the "e" or "i" argument; they meant the same thing. Wikipedia states "Tacitus deliberately used the term "Chrestians"...It has been stated that both the terms Christians and Chrestians had at times been used by the general population in Rome to refer to early Christians.[21] " So; what is Chrestos and where is it found? Oh...the Statue of Mithras in the Vatican. This is from an article..."According to Realencyclopaedie, the inscription Chrestos is to be seen on a Mithras relief in the Vatican”. The inscription of Chrestos is carved into the statue. In the Greek it reads....Χρῆστος πατὴρ καὶ Γαῦρος ἐποίησαν .... the "x" is the "k" or "ch"...the "rho" is the "p" looking letter...followed by an "n" looking letter which is "e"; then the sigma, the "t", the omincron or "o"; and the final "s". You can do an internet search on Mithra Chrestos Statue...and this will be the root of "chrestianity"....but it says NOTHING ABOUT ANY DUDE NAMED JESUS. In fact...even in the original 1611 KJV..the name is "Iesus"....not "jee zeus". You don't translate "english into english" and get from an "I" to a "J". That sort of thinking ...is not thinking; because it's utter b.s. Tacitus mentions nothing about Jew Zeus....Suetonius uses Christians, as well as Pliny the Younger. In the letter of Pliny, these Christians are "meeting in a temple at sunrise". Doesn't sound Hebrew or Jewish...it sound Pagan. The Hebrew word is messiah and the Greeks translated a word..."messias". Since you don't need 2 words...the "Chrestos" crap is merely a pagan "assimilation" done by THE PROPAGANDA FIDE of the Vatican. It's just this....propaganda....or, PRO PAGAN DA....DUH, HUH.!!! Humphreys could end this debate on this issue; if he'd just learn a little about proper translation procedure. Here's more research on the matter, from Hebrew and Greek translators from the Headquarters of the CHURCH OF GOD, in Springfield, MO. 150 translators put together something called THE COMPLETE BIBLICAL LIBRARY. It's a total of 39 volumes, with reference to the usage of every single word. Here's what it shows on "messiah" and Christos.... 3193. Μεσσίας Messias name The Messiah, the Anointed One. Word Studies: Messias is a Greek transliteration of the Hebrew word māshîach and is the root of the English word Messiah. Messias occurs twice in the New Testament, in John 1:41 and 4:25. Both the Septuagint and John use Christos (5382), “Anointed One,” to translate māshîach. But...no one needed a second word...since Messias already existed. The Hebrew doesn't have 2 words for Messiah; why would the Greek? Let's see where this word "Christos" really comes from. Classical Greek In its secular use, christos describes such common everyday activities as rubbing the body with oil after a bath, smearing poison on the points of arrows, painting, whitewashing, and using cosmetics. In the secular literature the word was anything but a title of honor. (For more information, especially about Jesus as Messiah, see the article on Christos [5382].) 5382. Χρήστος Christos is a verbal adjective related to the verb chriō (5383) which means “to rub, to smear,” or “to anoint” when used of fats or oil. Outside of Biblical literature and tradition christos is used only as an adjective, never as a personal title. In classical Greek it is used of anything that was rubbed on externally (pharmaka christa or epichrisma, “salves, ointments”). Christos, therefore, had no special religious or sacred sense among the Greeks. In fact, it was more a term of derision than respect (Rengstorf, “Jesus Christ,” Colin Brown, 2:334,335). There you have it....the term CHRISTOS was NOT A TITLE OF HONOR. In fact; Christos is a term of derision AS RESEARCHED BY CHRISTIAN TRANSLATORS OF GREEK AND HEBREW. This means that the Hebrew Scribes; such as Josephus would never have used the word....which is probably why he didn't write about Christianity. Apparently no one told Josephus about the 3000 per day increase in membership in the book of Acts....since he wrote about the Essenes; Sadducees, Pharisees, and another Jewish sect started by Judas of Galilee. But...he mentions no sort of "massive movement" of Christians or Messianics...as per the RUBBISH IN THE BY-BA'AL.

[@Pink_Freud_Obscured_By_Crowds]

Very good. Thank you David for all that informative comment. That must have taken a very long time to enter all that, hopefully you typed all that on a computer and keyboard. Typing anything on a smartphone takes for freaking ever.

[@geirerlinggulbrandsen851]

No, Jesus never existed for real. He was all myth.

[@bobmead7208]

+Geir Erling Gulbrandsen My upcoming book "Come on MAN, Speak English to ME about GOD" and go to my video page where I am going to reveal the greatest textual discovery of God's authoritative book. Best Wishes!

[@jimchumley6568]

Thats why your a black dot, follow the bouncing ball to hell!

[@bobmead7208]

Jim Chumley Hell is not a place I wish my word enemy to go to. But it is proven and explained in the book like never before. Good day!

[@bobmead7208]

Sorry, I was trying to respond to Doreen. My bad!

[@annettemacintosh117]

Bob Mead - chuckle, no problem :-)

[@Professor6871]

No he didn't exist! Next question please.

[@Roedygr]

Nobody but religious scholars gives a damn if somebody lead a tiny sect but performed no miracles. It is an irrelevant question.

[@stevetakkinkwan8910]

Some " so called smart computers" starts to "think" that they are not created, and they are their own creations, and if there is a creator of computers, the computers are their own masters and they are self created and they are more important than anythings else.

[@imiah3202]

+steve tak kin kwan ... Well said... I agree .. I look at it as when we create a Being that we think can over powers us... we are then giving away our own energy to an unknown... and those that do are separating themselves from reality... How can they become more if they give it away... When we see that the god created wanted to keep everyone as a child.. tells me that control of the masses is the key for those who know how to use it against the very people who created it... Maybe we need something like a Computer has... A RESET BUTTON...

[@carlosi7026]

+steve tak kin kwan haha nice.. like an I.Asimov´s fiction tale.. nice try but A.I. (as soon as it really exists with self consciece) will have no problem to undestand it was created by humans.

[@TheQuranChannel123]

Christianity started much later after Jesus, "Then Barnabas went to Tarsus to look for Saul, and when he found him, he brought him to Antioch. So for a whole year Barnabas and Saul met with the church and taught great numbers of people. The disciples were called Christians first at Antioch." Acts 11:25-26. The name Jesus started to be circulated around 1500s. No one was called Jesus before that. The bible is made up by Constantino Agusto AD 325, and to date Christians never agreed on which is the correct Bible. British's Bible KJV has in it 66 books, Italian Bible (Roman Catholic Bible) has in it 73 books, Greek Orthodox Bible has in 79 books, and Ethiopian Orthodox Bible has in 86 books. I wonder why we think the Bible is a legitimate religious book?

[@Achill101]

You mix up some things. Paul was first to write of JESUS in 50CE. He wrote to the CHRISTIAN churches he had started around the Aegean Sea, until 60CE. Christians have all the same New Testament. They used the Greek Translation of the Old Testament, but the reformers of the 16. cdntury used the original Hebrew Bible that accepted FEWER books as canonical.

[@TheQuranChannel123]

@@Achill101 Thank you, Peter, for your feedback and for sharing your views. Maybe you are right I mixed up things, but maybe the truth is Paul never really existed, that's not my personal opinion but when we read the New Testament we could have the unbearable reckoning that Paul never write any of the 14 books, they claim he did. Please allow me to break it down for you. You will make your own judgement. We know that all Christian preachers, anchor their belief in Jesus through his birth, miracles, death and resurrection. Preachers love to talk about these 4 topics about Jesus, day in and day out. Now please consider this 1 In those 14 letters attributed to Paul, the birth of Jesus was never discussed. In fact, Mary's name is not mentioned, not even once. 2 In those 14 letters, the authors didn't discuss the miracles of Jesus at all. The books talk mostly about the death and resurrection of Jesus. It is so strange fact that those 14 letters, never discuss the miraculous birth of Jesus. It is so strange fact that the authors of those 14 letters said nothing about Mary the mother of Jesus who they keep calling the mother of God. In fact, we ask ourselves why the name Mary doesn't appear at all in those 14 letters, not even once. WHY? It is so strange that in those 14 letters, the miracles of Jesus, one of the hot selling points of Christian scholars, are not discussed. Yet, we know Paul was supposed to be the founder and the supreme testifier of Christianity. Because the 14 books attributed to him talk only about Paul's mission to the Gentiles about the new religion found in Antioch as in the bible itself. “and when he found him, he brought him to Antioch. So for a whole year, Barnabas and Saul met with the church and taught great numbers of people. The disciples were called Christians first at Antioch.” Acts 11:26. Yet, we wonder why Paul, if existed, never mentioned Mary whom they call mother God and the miracles of Jesus, 2 out of 4 narratives and selling points of Christian preachers. The only answer is Paul didn't know Jesus nor did he hear about his miracles. Because Paul might have not existed as a person. There is no other way around it. Why do I believe Paul never existed as a person? You know what, this is a phenomenon no one can explain, why it had to happen that way. Because the bible says Paul went to school in Jerusalem during the time Jesus was performing his miracles. We know at this stage the fame of Jesus was at its climax. “Then Paul said, “I am a Jew, born in Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, and I was brought up and educated here in Jerusalem under Gamaliel. As his student, I was carefully trained in our Jewish laws and customs. I became very zealous to honor God in everything I did, just like all of you today.” Acts 22:3. At this stage, Jesus' fame spread all over the region and people went to see Jesus from different cities. “And at once his fame spread everywhere throughout all the surrounding region of Galilee.” Mark 1:28 “And the fame hereof went abroad into all that land.” Matthew 9:26. “So his fame spread throughout all Syria, and they brought him all the sick, those afflicted with various diseases and pains, those oppressed by demons, those having seizures, and paralytics, and he healed them.” Matthew 4:24. But Paul who was supposed to be there around the corner never met or heard anything about Jesus. Paul says he heard of Jesus for the first time when he was on his way to Damascus and it was in a supposed vision, that he heard a voice. That by itself is a questionable event. If Paul existed why has he never heard of Jesus at all? He was supposed to be among the first ones to know Jesus. Now we must ask ourselves, why Paul did not meet or heard of Jesus and his miracles if he existed as a person and was in Jerusalem during the days of Jesus' fame? THE BOOK OF ROMANS. The book of Romans is another internal evidence and proof enough that Paul never wrote any of those books. The Book of Romans must have been written after the council of Nicea AD 325. “To all in Rome who are loved by God and called to be his holy people: Grace and peace to you from God our Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ. First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is being proclaimed all over the world.” Romans 1:1-8 Romans adopted Christianity as the official religion of the Roman Empire in AD 323. In AD 325, Constantino Augusto called for a big gathering of Catholic Bishops in Nicea. From that point on, Christianity spread all over Roman Empire. Therefore, the Book of Romans was written after that gathering. If Paul existed as a person, as the founder and supreme testifier of Christianity, and as he was in Jerusalem during the heydays of Jesus, he could write in every letter about the miraculous birth of Jesus and talk about Mary the mother of Jesus and the miracles performed by Jesus.

[@Achill101]

@@TheQuranChannel123 - Someone must have written Paul's letters, and the common content and language of the first seven letters has led scholars to think these letters are all from one writer, Paul. Paul wrote that he met Peter and James of the church in Jerusalem, but not the other apostles or Mary. He wrote that Jesus was born of a woman, under the law, to clarify that Jesus was a human and a Jew (who was the Messiah or Christ). . . . Paul's authority was often contested by other Christian leaders, because he hadn't see Jesus before the crucifixion, and Paul had often to justify himself and his teachings. We can see it from his letters: he assures his readers frequently that he only writes the truth (which his readers could check by interviewing other Christian eye witnesses about Paul and Jesus). Paul didn't want to write of things he was not sure about. . . . Jesus fame spread all over GALILEE, which was a Jewish province in the north of today's Israel. That doesn't mean he was known by many in Jerusalem by then - people in the capitals often don't pay much attention to the provinces. . . . Most of Paul's letters respond to questions by or problems in the churches he had founded. His letter to the Romans is different, as he don't know them yet and uses the letter to develop his theology. Scholars assume Paul wrote it around 58CE, but definitely before 66CE, the outbreak of the Jewish-Roman war.

[@juanlopez4353]

Yeah!!! the brown Jesus Christ exist like depicted in this picture. But not the white Jesus Christ in pictures.....

[@cyber6sapien]

Not only did Jesus not exist, but many of the biblical characters of the bible did not exist. The bible contains the greatest story ever told. But many people miss the fact that its just A STORY!

[@wmthewyld]

Talk about a fool being delusional.

[@CyeOutsider]

Idiot atheist Your screen name is half right.

[@williammoney962]

cyber6sapien *"Not only did Jesus not exist, but many of the biblical characters of the bible did not exist."* *You left out all the scholars who believe Jesus existed. Did they never exist too? *You left out all the ancient writers outside the Bible who wrote about Jesus, Did they never exist too? Where are you getting your information?

[@CyeOutsider]

William Money​ There is a consensus amongst scholars that a Jesus _the man_ existed, but there is no consesus about whether this man was divinely conceived, performed miracles and was spirited away to heaven after he died. That's a different matter.

[@williammoney962]

CyeOutsider True dat...may our journey for truth never end.

[@sidneya.dorsett860]

Nobody doubts the existence of Pilate now that we have found an inscription with his name in it. Nobody doubts the existence of Caiphas the High Priest now that we have discovered in 1990 in a family tomb in Abu Tor, two miles south of Jerusalem, an ossuary, or bone box, containing on its side the name of Joseph Caiaphas, written in Aramaic. But every atheist doubts the existence of Jesus because of an empty tomb.

[@tiyopaeng2425]

Because these people are obviously atheists who prefer the Satanic cultist faith who will always attempt to destroy the Deity of the Lord Jesus by any means just to promote their own faith that advocates violence, intolerance, misogynism, apostasy polygamy, and other sexual perversions (pedophilia) which grossly violates God's Ten Commandments which is far cry from the teachings of a true God.

[@lucassantosgoudinho1005]

The word: Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved! We aren't saved by keeping the law, but by pure grace. We keep the law for love.

[@TorianTammas]

The Romans executed some rebel with his gang and the preacher is dead. Cultists started to tell stories that they dud not waste their life following a dead false prophet.

[@solomru]

Apparently, the biblical God was a VERY jealous god indeed. And look what he's got waiting for us . . . eternal torment in the lake of fire. Definitely not a deity worthy of worship as far as I'm concerned. God is love. Really? Dysfunctional love.

[@Boldyaug]

Jesus existed and exists. I too never believed He existed until I received Him when I was 16. Later I had a visitation from Him while awake. Not only did I hear Him, but I sensed His Personality and total Royalty. He is not a whimp as He has been portrayed throughout the ages. Just giving my perspective here. Noone has to believe me. One day you will see for yourselves .

[@armanisim7791]

you gotta lay off the acid bro.

[@t.k.2369]

Bullshit

[@ftjax]

when you pray to Jesus,(god) you're talking to yourself

[@michaelharris4651]

Praying to Jesus is a mind game !

[@mariasanchezm.364]

you talk to god

[@mickaymiller9622]

That says it.

[@Roedygr]

There are contemporary records of Shakspear and Galileo. There are none for Jesus. Conflating them is dishonest.

[@misterauctor7353]

What about Alexander?

[@elvirareis9634]

OUR JEWS KNOW HIM BY YESHUA. JOHN 3:16

[@terrygunderson3225]

Exist?? Apparently Not!!!!

[@Confederateson1]

If the Bible is proof of Jesus then comic books are proof of Spiderman! LOL

[@citi4168]

carlos cabrera! that's actually not true, people who claimed to know who jesus was, meant that jesus would appear and speak with them in their visions.if you have the balls you'll look up dr richard carriers "historicity of jesus"

[@carloscabrera5311]

Citi you better stop reading nonsense. the people jesus walked with, the 12 apostles, the 150 disciples, the witnesses that saw and talked to him. non of them talked about dreaming about a Jesus. they talked about the things they went through with Jesus in life. the life of peter, for example. historians know even where peter the apostle died. Historians know every move of the entire 12 apostles and where many of the so called, disciples ended. hundreds of people dreamed of a man called Jesus ? you better stop reading nonsense. think about it. maybe common sense will bring you what's the truth and what's not. not a nonsense book written by a nut case. I careless about his Phd. hundreds of people had no reason to confirm a man that never existed. hundreds of people were not going to talk about a man that never existed. think about it. why would hundreds of people talked about seeing talking to a man that never existed ? that makes sense to you ?

[@citi4168]

carlos cabrera so did you watch dr richard carriers "the historicity of jesus"? come on, don't be scared, just watch it, and reply back to me. then i'll promise to watch whatever video you want then reply back to you

[@citi4168]

Zeal for Truth yeah its tuff to say what it is exactly, most likely they were just lying about having a vision, and some probably were just dreaming, or maybe even a drug enduced hallucination, or even a mental illness like schytsophrenia which is where imagined people speak to you on a subconscious level. so yeah, im on your side human beings are liars and have always lied even as far back as when we were just apes

[@carloscabrera5311]

Citi you just don't get it. you're not talking about three people. you're talking about hundreds who claimed to have talked and seen Jesus. you have 12 apostles who existence casts no doubts. they have been confirmed to exists by historians. then, you have what they used to called, disciples. disciples were messengers who claimed to have talked to Jesus. let me stop brother. you don't get it. why would hundreds of people claim to have talked and seen the same man, with the same behavior, with the same teachings, with the same everything, who did not exists ? are you kidding me ? drugs ? you said ? brother. I'm wasting my time with you or whoever. you lack common sense. keep watching youtube and your discovery channel nonsense. you're doing good.

[@citi4168]

carlos cabrera o.k first of all, you don't just get to pick and choose the questions you want to respond to you quack, i ask you a question earlier and you ducked it. second i'm not just talking about back then im talking about visions in general. what part of the human brain they come from. people lie, its human nature. just like your about to lie to me.

[@notwhatiwasraised2b]

why would a one true God want us to quarrel and war over such things?. Could it beeeeeee.....SATAN!?

[@dpatterson6603]

Greg Pearcey Satan is the author of confusion

[@jackmyers2359]

@@dpatterson6603 Satan is about as real as a gawd.

[@intrepid7326]

Did Jesus exist yes and he still does.

[@akbarralston9714]

In Latin Jesus means hail Zeus Je~sus is Zeus = hey~zeus ...

[@IshtarLinqu]

nupuqi om-re khonectics chamber degrees will guide you

[@TorianTammas]

Jesus os the latinized firm of Jeshuah or Joshuah as he was a jew.

[@aboukharfa734]

It appears that Ken really studied the matters. All it would take God to do now is to show Himself to settle all these issues. The fact that He has never done that is, either He doesn't care or He doesn't exist, which is most likely, especially considering how monstrous He is depicted in the Bible.

[@IanMcGarrett]

According to Tacitus: Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judæa, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular. Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty; then, upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind. Mockery of every sort was added to their deaths. Covered with the skins of beasts, they were torn by dogs and perished, or were nailed to crosses, or were doomed to the flames and burnt, to serve as a nightly illumination, when daylight had expired.[

[@IanMcGarrett]

My question is this. If we accept Tacitus' account, do we accept his evaluation of these early Christians as well? Despite the message of its holy books, Christianity has a most unholy history as well as its history of holy frauds. Even today we could come up with a number of examples that would put Christianity in a negative light.

[@iamterryfc1]

Cornelius Tacitus (c.55-117 CE), the quotation from Tacitus is an important one. In the first place this passage is not in the history of Tacitus, known to the ancients but in his annals which is not quoted by any ancient writer. The annals were not known to be in existence until the year 1468, an English writer Ross has undertaken a volume to show that the annals were forged by an Italian Bracciolini. It is inconceivable that the early Christians would ignore so valuable a testimony, had they known of it's existence. The Christian fathers, who not only collected assiduously all that they could to establish the reality of Jesus, did not hesitate even to forge passages to invent documents and also to destroy the testimony of witnesses unfavorable to their cause,they would have certainly used the Tacitus passage if it had been in existence in their day. Not one of the Christian fathers in his defense against the pagans has quoted the passage from Tacitus. In short no Christian apologist for centuries ever quoted the passage of Tacitus Another problem with the text is that the terrible outrages against the christians mentioned where supposed to have taken place in theyear 64 CE. In the new testament Paul was in Rome from 63 to 65 andmust have been an eye-witness to the persecution under Nero. The book of acts reads "and he (Paul) abode two whole years in his own hired dwellings and received all that went in to him preaching the kingdom of God and teaching things concerning Lord Jesus Christ with all boldness none forbidding him". This picture of peace and tranquility is at odds with the charge that the Romans were burning Christians and throwing them to the lions. It is generally know that the Romans were indifferent to religious propaganda and never persecuted any sect in the name of religion. In Rome the Jews were free to be Jews, the early Christians were Jews and in all probability the persecutions were much milder than the Tacitus passage describes and Politics was the real cause. The passage in Tacitus is a fraud and adds no evidence for a historic Jesus.

[@boblackey1]

iamterryfc1 The vast majority of experts hold the Tacitus passage is NOT a fraud including Louis Feldman, PhD of New York University who is one of the world's leading experts on Josephus, Tacitus & Jewish history from the time. What passages did the Church Fathers FORGE??? Which ones? Tacitus annals not in existence until 1468??? What leading expert on Tacitus or first & second century Rome holds that position?? And why would a Christian quote Tacitus? First the part of the annals that covers the time of Jesus is NOT extant today. It is lost. And the passage at hand says that Christianity is an evil superstition eliminated in Judea when Chrestus was crucified by Pilate but broke out again & spread all the way to Rome. Why would they quote that? Plus you are arguing the Church Fathers were busy looking for written proof that Jesus existed. That is a lie. The fussing then was over who Jesus was & doctrine. Everybody google the english writer Ross & lets see if its true he has proved the annals from Tacitus is a forgery written by an Italian in the 15th century. LOL!!

[@iamterryfc1]

bob lackey Since the 18th century at least five attempts have been made to challenge the authenticity of the Annals as having been written by someone other than Tacitus, Voltaire's perhaps the first. In 1878 John Wilson Ross and in 1890 Polydore Hochart suggested that the whole of the Annals had been forged by the Italian scholar Poggio Bracciolini (1380-1459) Bracciolini had discovered three works at Hersfeld Abbey in Germany in 1425 and Annals 1-6 were then independently discovered at Corvey Abbey in Germany in 1508 and were first published in Rome in 1515. "What passages did the Church Fathers FORGE" We have approximately 5,500 original greek manuscript alone, all of which have mistakes from one copy to the next. Between 300 000-400,000 discrepancies, some small spelling mistakes some big. For example the gospel of Mark, the last eleven verses are missing form the early gospel's copies of Mark so some lying scribe invented the last eleven verses of Mark at a later date. Another example, in the gospel of Luke when Jesus is on the cross and he says "father forgive them for they no not what they do" this is not found in the early copies of Luke. It was to invented at a later date by another lying scribe The inspiration of the Bible is not a question of belief, it is a question of evidence. If believing a book inspired could make it so, then, the books of Mohammed and Buddha, of Confucius and Zoroaster, must be inspired too. In fact, any book could be made infallible, if believing it to be so, were all that was required. But does the evidence show that the Bible was invented? I sincerely believe it does

[@boblackey1]

iamterryfc1 NONE of the attempts to prove Tacitus did not write the Annals gained any traction in the 20th century & today it is a dead issue. Do you know of any scholars/experts today who are trying to show Tacitus did not write the Annals? Many scholars today say the Annals are Tacitus' "crowning achievement". And a good chunk of the Annals are not extant today. Lost to history. You offer this information as if it is deemed FACT in the world of academia! When in reality academia around the world accept Tacitus' Annals as genuine. Perhaps Tacitus didn't write the Annals, the holocaust didn't happen & man has never really walked on the moon! But academia isn't buying it. Only radical conspiracy proponents. Please don't claim the Annals are a forgery when there is NO support for this worth mentioning worldwide.

[@geraldbrienza4474]

Humphries: hold my beer.

[@dwiattorneykarlmyles9985]

Jesus is Real Repent and Believe. I have heard his voice over 100 times he saved my cousin lives, boys 12, 13 or major injury 48 hours ago. As the Car hit them I saw them fly up in the air, and the idea fill my head, "they are fine" and the image or idea of a fist also filled my head. Got out of the car even before tending to my kids, I said to the lady, you can go they are fine." PLEASE NEVER STOP SEEKING THE TRUTH OF JESUS CHRIST! "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you." He Loves You!!!! Mathew 7:7

[@ilikeatheism5698]

+Karl Myles this is all about seeking the truth of jesus christ, is it a ferry tale or is it history.

[@shizzyvass]

No

[@misterauctor7353]

Wrong. It's yes.

[@dfadden62]

No.

[@buntoskiffler]

love it.

[@wmthewyld]

Do you have any evidence to prove your "no" is factual?

[@buntoskiffler]

wmthewyld weak. We also deny santa too. -b

[@wmthewyld]

Bunto Skiffler can you show evidence Jesus didn't exist?

[@buntoskiffler]

wmthewyld"can you show evidence Jesus didn't exist?" The miraculous Jesus presented in the Bible, rather easily. The plausibility of someone named Jesus getting himself crucified I couldn't contest... its too low a bar. -b ps. DFD provides a cogent source in Fitzgerald, another would be Dr Robert M Price and his works.

[@johnroger3384]

He would have been on the six o'clock news every day from that time foreward, NOT 75-100 years later! I guess it took them that long to cum up what they thought was a plausible story. Nobody, not one historian of the supposed time of this character wrote anything of him at the time it was supposed to be happening. I have a really bad habit of doing things like using common sense and logic, it would be soooo nice if the rest of the world could start doing this.

[@kathya.robinson407]

He did existed.

[@jonedenvale9878]

Jesus was known to only a small group of people within a very short period of time so it is not surprising there is so little historical record.

[@darkpill]

Small group of people? Did he not feed 5000 people with 5 loaves and 2 fish? You Christians will make up any excuse.

[@jonedenvale9878]

darkpill As an atheist, are you not supposed to use factual and scientific information to make up your case?

[@darkpill]

Jon Edenvale I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy of a typical Christian. He is running all over the place performing miracles in front of thousands of people (according to the Bible) - and now you claim that Jesus was known only by a few people. I guess you don't believe in the Bible then?

[@jonedenvale9878]

darkpill When Jesus started preaching, he was only known to to a very small number of disciples and followers.. Later on he people he was performing the said miracles to were mainly poor and illiterate living in a remote roman province 2000 years ago. Even after the resurrection, it took a few years for his message to spread and this is when historical evidence started to appear.

[@johnhammond6423]

Jon Edenvale There are no eyewitness accounts of a miraculous Jesus at all outside of the Bible. If a man was to do all the miracles today Jesus did according to the Bible then he would be headline news all over the world! [Or at least that part of the world]

[@osirisravanz]

what JP failed to mention was that tacitus was not used by early church fathers as a reference who new of his works, tacitus was not used as a reference up until the 15th century. Do you really believe that Justin Martyr or Eusebius the probable forger of the Josephus paragraph would not have trumpeted the works of Tacitus.

[@c2378h]

Jesus DID exsist.

[@c2378h]

Love him. That's why I shared this.

[@moneymikz]

Yeah he cuts my lawn every other Tuesday....grow up

[@scottbignell]

Not to my understanding. My understanding is that there is a split among scholars as to whether the paragraph is a completely forged insertion, or simply a minor touch-up job, adding the additional Christian lines (e.g. changing "He was called the Christ" to "He was the Christ" - as that's how he refers to him in his second reference). The only people I know who dismiss the second reference are positive mythicists. I'm not so sure. In any case, I don't think his reference is necessary anyway.

[@Rooker11111]

"What's more important is whether someone has ever been divine or performed actual miracles or got resurrected after they died. The answer is no."---wrinkleneckbass Proof?

[@eternalskeptic6996]

This 'savior" is clearly a man-made construct. the old testament says "god" is all you need. Isaiah..... 10"You are My witnesses," declares the LORD, "And My servant whom I have chosen, So that you may know and believe Me And understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, And there will be none after Me. 11"I, even I, am the LORD,And there is no savior besides Me.12"It is I who have declared and saved and proclaimed, And there was no strange god among you; So you are My witnesses," declares the LORD, "And I am God.… Religion is a global plague!

[@stevemymind3947]

Minor? Scholars (there are fringe elements on both sides) consider the main reference a complete forgery and the 2nd reference a touch up, so unless that is what you meant...