How STRONG Was DANGAI ICHIGO? The Man Who CRUSHED Aizen | Bleach Discussion

[@MrTommo2304]

Use Code "TOMMO" to get $5 off for your first #Sakuraco box through this link: team.sakura.co/MrTommo2304 and #TokyoTreat box through this link: team.tokyotreat.com/MrTommo2304 How does Dangai Ichigo stack up these days? What similarities are there between the Dangai training and 'The Blade is Me' from TYBW? Let me know all of your thoughts down below!

[@R_Kuro]

Based on what u said and my own thoughts on the matter I now believe that True Shikai/Bankai Ichigo is definitely stronger than Dangai Ichigo and let me explain how I arrived at that conclusion. Let's go back to Ichigo training with the fused Tensa Zangetsu and White, if u recall, there's a moment where Ichigo engages in inner monologue with himself as he tries to figure out how to force White Tensa to teach him the final getsuga tensho and in that monologue, Ichigo states that White Tensa was way stronger than him at the beginning of his training and that White Tensa could easily defeat him at any time and even at the end of the training we see that Ichigo didn't defeat White Tensa but instead just accepted that White Tensa is the culmination of all his powers whether he thought they were good or bad so technically, Ichigo still wasn't stronger than White Tensa as we even saw him struggling against him even a few moments before accepting him. Now, if we're assuming that White Tensa is the cap of Ichigo's power at this point in the story then we can also say that, at the time Ichigo emerged from the Dangai to face off against the Transcended Aizen, he was still weaker than White Tensa yet still stronger than Transcended Aizen. Now, in "The Blade is me", it basically just shows that Ichigo has now successfully accessed his full power, its kind of like how Renji only knew half of Zabimaru's true name and even after learning the true name from Ichibei, Renji still had to get strong enough to be able to summon So-Oh Zabimaru at will, in the same sense that Dangai Ichigo was able to use a fraction of True Shikai/Bankai Ichigo's power because he didn't fully know himself and the root of his power but after learning the full story behind how his powers came to be, he was finally able to summon that power at will. That's why I believe that True Shikai/Bankai Ichigo is stronger than Dangai Ichigo but I might be wrong as its just speculation on my part

[@MrGksarathy]

About Ichibei and Ywach, I feel that the former is so old that the concept of the racial boundaries doesn't really apply to him, even if he became the standard by which Shinigami molded themselves. Ywach is much the same by virtue of being some piece of the Soul King's will incarnate as a person. By virtue of that, he does transcend the rules of this world and probably is on the level of transcended beings. Still, the TYBW as a whole highlights just how porous and arbitrary these so-called boundaries are, even if they are extremely important.

[@wanderingshade8383]

I think Dangai Ichigo is stronger than True Shikai for one simple reason: Ichigo is in Bankai in his fight against Aizen. Dangai Ichigo is basically Zangetsu trying to give Ichigo True Bankai levels of power but is handicapped by A) not having a real asauchi and B) Ichigo not knowing about his Quincy powers, thus forcing Ichigo to resort to the Final Getsuga and Mugetsu to artificially boost himself further. I do think that Dangai and True Shikai are pretty close in terms of power, though. Horn of Salvation + True Bankai Ichigo is definitely stronger than Dangai Ichigo.

[@thecatsbackyard4833]

Maybe Kubo made Dangai Ichigo too OP. It makes everybody else in Bleach seem helpless. He stopped Hogyoku Aizen's sword between his fingers. That's probably the most awesome single feat in all of Bleach. It indicated to me that Ichigo was as powerful compared to Aizen as Aizen had been compared to him when they first met. Like Aizen would've needed a development arc of his own just to catch to him.

[@tiagorodrigues5157]

Finally, someone who can actually interpret what they read. Good work there MrTommo, I agree 100%.

[@jrgenvellesen7800]

Ichigo, the being with the heart of a human, the soul of a Hollow, the blood of a Quincy and the blade of a Soul Reaper. The God born as a mortal.

[@manuelacosta9463]

Indeed. What makes him such a paragon is that he uses his epic hybrid power to save and protect. Anyone else with such power would go full mad tyrant, trying to prove they have the loudest voice.

[@jrgenvellesen7800]

@@manuelacosta9463 Yes. Ichigo is a true hero in a world filled with evil and moral ambiguity. It is telling that even after saving the world, he is happy simply living the normal life of a human, and being with his family and friends. Even the likes of Tokinada praised him for this, while condemning the others that represent the Soul Society.

[@manuelacosta9463]

@@jrgenvellesen7800 It was surprising that Tokinada had that opinion, then again even a psychopath of his calibre can recognize something or someone as they are. Notice that contrast between Ichigo and those with whom he has clashed, they all either want to be superior or change things with the most bloodshed while already having everything. Ichigo meanwhile just saves the worlds and returns to his human life. He's a light in the darkness.

[@jrgenvellesen7800]

@@manuelacosta9463 Indeed. It is telling that nearly everyone Ichigo fights, ends up changing for the better in some sense, from Byakuya becoming a true brother to Rukia, Grimmmjow becoming willing to work alongside Soul Reapers to save the worlds, to even Aizen acknowledging the importance of courage while thinking of Ichigo and how Yhwach's world would lack such a thing. Ichigo truly leaves a impact on so many across the saga.

[@manuelacosta9463]

@@jrgenvellesen7800 Yes. He has a knack for changing others. Even a stalwart like Yamamoto eventually came around to accepting his help. This is someone who kept to the same old script and then, an orange haired lad doing the right thing began to change his perspective. Something tells me that Kisuke and Yoruichi befriended him and his friends because he and they represent a certain innocence that was denied to them from the start, including not being allowed to do the morally right thing.

[@dionysisnance4204]

Dangai ichgio and fullbringer bankai will always be my favorite ichgio design

[@darknesswave100]

I liked Ichigo's demeanor in the Dangai form and his blade in the fullbring bankai was sick cause of the protruding spikes on the back of the blade. Every other one of his bankai are just straight blades that as byakuya put it just looked like an ordinary zanpakuto. Which funny enough it was just a black blade lol

[@hollowify_tensa_zangetsu]

FUCKK YEAH!!! Amazing FB has the legit zanpakutou

[@BeemaSteama]

Fullbring shikai is slept on. It’s my personal favorite design (other than mugetsu)

[@luizotavio44]

@@darknesswave100 i really like the whites in the fullbring bankai

[@EpicJoeE]

The entire Fullbringer Arch was hot garbage that should have never existed

[@OG_DSB]

Ichigo came out of the hyperbolic time chamber and tanked everything Aizen threw at him. If Dangai Ichigo is that powerful, the form he takes when he becomes Getsuga must be on a completely different realm of power.

[@TheBigExclusive]

Dangai Ichigo seemed like an unstable temporary power up. Aizen was also evolving further and would have surpassed it if Urahara didn't put him in check with the seal.

[@koetekage2802]

@@TheBigExclusivedangai seemed the most stable if anything since from what we saw it was just a highly trained nearly perfected version of his false bankai abilities due to his lack of experience holding him back more than anything.

[@bwill887]

​@TheBigExclusive I think Mugetsu Ichigo was unstable by nature, a version of the character throwing all his power behind a singular attack. Dangai seemed to be pretty stable and, while I think Mugetsu was needed to beat Aizen, I think Dangai was far more powerful than even his monster form. Remember that Aizen thought he rendered Ichigo's arms to be unusable as he was powering up a massive attack, only to be swatted away by that very arm. My thought is that Dangai is right under his true Bankai (maybe being most similar to horn of salvation true shikai), representing a rushed, partial version of what the TYBW provided with his true Bankai. Mugetsu, just by nature of being a singular attack with everything behind it, is likely his most powerful attack and form, but as a single hit. True Bankai is the most powerful, stable form of Ichigo.

[@KingDerek58]

Mugetsu is not a form, it's a technique

[@sh4d0wfl4re]

@@bwill887dangai Ichigo was just Ichigo with a couple of months of intensive training. If he didn’t need to use mugetsu that would have just been Ichigo’s new base form. Huh, maybe that’s why his true Zanpakuto used his old bankai design as his Shikai… after all the claim of Ichigo lacking Shikai turned out to be a lie, so why shouldn’t his old Bankai be properly named his True Shikai after his Zanpakuto evolved into its true form upon being reforged

[@saynotololi]

I wished by the end ichigo had his dangai hair looked so bad ass

[@OkRoomer123-]

Facts

[@Mars_yt699]

He was a badass in general while he was in his dangia state

[@godknightomega]

There's a theory I've read and support. The Final Getsuga technique is strictly for the Shiba bloodline. It gives them the equivalent to Letzt Stil and being a final desperation attack when nothing else works. Which is why their noble house fell from grace as the number of their powerhouses diminished from making those sacrifices time and again. Seems sacrifice is the theme of Ichigo's entire family.

[@razielstalker]

Yes i was wondering why other shinigami don't know you can aquire a strength like. I was thinking maybe its a forbidden tech. Then i realise that isshin was the one who said " final getsuga tensho" and since he can also perform the same attack maybe it was related to the shiba clan. The theory that they fall disgraced may be because of that kind of jutsu.

[@godknightomega]

@@razielstalker It's funny to consider that had Kaien Shiba not lost both his Nejibana and life to Metastacia that he could've learned the Final Getsuga as well. Also now that I think of it Byakuya was surprised when facing Ichigo that Ichigo had a "black Getsuga" when Zangetsu (Hollow Ichigo/White) took over and used the technique. Byakuya being part of another noble family might have known the technique and was taken back when a common human turned substitute Shinigami could use such a technique.

[@razielstalker]

@@godknightomega i think the noble families didn't know all the techniques that other families use. But i was wondering maybe the kukaku shiba lose its arm because she fused partially with her zanpakuto. Or maybe its a coincidence

[@creativeboundaries126]

Thank you, this is something I could bounce a personal theory of mine. Perhaps the upper limit of shinigami was to fuse with their zanpakuto but no successful cases occurred. The form could’ve been so powerful that the user’s life is at risk but old man zangetsu was using his powers to hold ichigo together and that is why ichigo was more toned down during his fight with Aizen. Seeing your theory, I want to build on mine by saying that as one of the noble houses the final getsuga was developed to break the barrier between realms to reach soul king level but when the other houses found out they were outcast and the technique forbidden. Records could’ve also been destroyed so that by the time of Isshin, he was working on conjecture and hearsay, believing ichigo’s bloodline might allow for the technique’s success. (Using my phone so sorry if comment didn’t turn out right)

[@godknightomega]

@@creativeboundaries126 I doubt the Final Getsuga was a forbidden technique made for breaking the barrier between realms and reaching Soul King level. I think it's a do or die technique that led to the decline of the Shiba noble house as more and more members made the ultimate sacrifice of their powers. Isshin being a captain and a member of the noble family probably had knowledge readily available and he himself knows that the Zanpaktos despise it. As Isshin warned Ichigo Zangetsu would fight tooth and nail to not teach Ichigo the technique as Engetsu did with him.

[@RFDN0]

Honestly, the problem is we do not see much from Bankai Ichigo after the blade is me.

[@bynosaurus4024]

i'm hoping we get an actual bankai ability for cour 4. something like fate negation would work perfectly to counter yhwach

[@RFDN0]

@@bynosaurus4024 I honestly want to see from Yhwach's perspective the fight he foresaw and decided that he needed to destroy Ichigo's bankai.

[@smallj900]

@@RFDN0that would be so awesome but really just literally anything would do 😂

[@FGame2star]

his hollow powers might block a full release

[@Poptart21000]

@@FGame2starhis Hollow powers ARE part of him. They wouldn’t block anything.

[@Intrepid_Explorer]

I think I've mentioned this before, but the most apt metaphor for Ichigo's 'Dangai' state is like Gon's transformation from HxH; an unnaturally forced evolution that gives the user significantly enhanced strength well beyond their natural limits, at the cost of sacrificing all the power they would ever have. The 'form' was an unnatural branch of Ichigo's development, and cannot be considered a natural part of his progression towards the Horn of Salvation (like the changing patterns of his Hollow Mask). Secondly, the Man in Black/Old Man Zangetsu's retroactive revelation that he had been restricting Ichigo's true power seems like it can't simply be applied as a blanket statement to every one of Ichigo's past battles, as there were clearly select moments where White took control and unleashed Ichigo's full potential (against Byakuya/Ulquiorra). It is simply a more nuanced situation than saying Ichigo was "always" fighting with a small portion of his power. Finally, the fact that the Man in Black/Old Man Zangetsu merged with White and passed on all of Zangetsu's power along with the secret of the Final Getsuga Tensho technique through their blade would seem to indicate that, in that moment, he gave Ichigo access to ALL of his latent power, and not merely the fragment of it he had been wielding up to that point. The entire reason that the Man in Black/Old Man Zangetsu was suppressing Ichigo's true power was because he wanted to keep Ichigo out of harm's way and prevent him from becoming a Shinigami. Therefore, it would make sense to me that he would have no reason to suppress Dangai Ichigo's true power since the fate of using the Final Getsuga Tensho would mean that Ichigo would loose all of his powers anyways; thus fulfilling both of the Old Man's wishes.

[@saddiqga]

Great explanation and reasoning, I've always been under the same impression.

[@89ludeawakening1]

Just normal Dangai Ichigo wouldn't be like Gon's adult form. Ichigo would still retain his powers after the Dangai training if he didn't use the Final Getsuga Tenshou.

[@shabnaspkp1692]

The power Zangetsu told he sealed might be some reiatsu and abilities , because Ichigo even after gaining all the power is still weaker than pre almighty Yhwach who is weaker than Bankai Yama who himsepf is weajer than transcendant Aizen.

[@eliasfigarzon9813]

Man tomo forgot the fullbring being a part of white, and then he says that the fullbringers are underrated lmao, but I guess this is a little mistake. Also his form of salvation is basically dangai ichigo but here it was incomplete.

[@saddiqga]

@@89ludeawakening1 similar to gon as in artificially enhanced

[@Grayson-Winchester]

Can we appreciate how Ichigo fought 3 months tensa zangetsu

[@darknesswave100]

To be fair it's not like they were trying to kill him the whole time. Which always was weird to me that they said they were going to but that would mean Zangetsu/tensa Zangetsu would disappear also

[@bluemoon1716]

​@@darknesswave100because he wasn't being truthful. He never had any intention of killing ichigo. He wanted him to give up

[@IfritBoi]

@@bluemoon1716 Tensa Zangetsu wanted to stop Ichigo from going on a suicide mission to stop Aizen so in turn, Tensa Zangetsu teaches Ichigo the Final Getsugatensho thus the whole 3 month fight. The whole point of that fight was to have Ichigo take in Zangetsu himself, not to have Ichigo give up

[@bluemoon1716]

@@IfritBoi not entirely. His first priority was to always keep ichigo from battle. He even says so himself if you watch tybw. Even ichigo's dad said that engetsu didn't want him to learn the final getsuga tensho . Old man zangetsu doesn't want ichigo to learn it.

[@manuelacosta9463]

Dangai Ichigo owns. But to think, for all his epic hybrid power it nearly led to him enduring a fate worse than death. The price of power.........

[@suzeray87]

Very Hunter x Hunter

[@yokaihorizon2931]

“There are fates worse then death” - some electric god

[@Shaquille-nw4qp]

MUCH MUCH MUCH WORST THAN DEATH DAMN

[@J-GUT]

Wdym? What happens to him? He literally has a happy life in the manga rn 😮

[@suzeray87]

@@J-GUT he’s a soul king candidate. Ichibe plans to shove him in that role to stabilize the all the universes. You know in the anime when he’s walking that path with all the colorful lights… that was meant destroy most people.

[@redxblood85]

Drip = power level Dangai ichigo drip > TYBW Ichigo drip Therefore dangai ichigo is the strongest. Thank you for coming to my ted talk

[@dreadhollow9576]

Here's a thought: Ichigo's "false" Zanpukto is actually an arancar style Zanpukto. It manifests in response to his drawing out his Shinigami/Hollow powers for the first time. Just as Aizen's blade fuses with him after he gains hollow power, Ichigo's works the same. Note, arancar fuse with their Zanpukto when they undergo ressurecion. Second note, remember Ulquorra's Segunda Etapa? How he became wrapped in and exuded a dark black reitsu? Mugetsu is Ichigo's Segunda Etapa.

[@dreadhollow9576]

That also explains his bankai not being stolen. Urahara/Mayuri suggest an Arancar's ressurecion should be functionally the same as a Bankai, turns out so is a Vaizard's. Plus, it makes sense why the blade envelopes him in a cloak, why Getsuga Tensho functions according to the same mechanics as cero, and why his false bankai essentially just wraps him in his power. It operates according to the rules of an Arancar Zanpukto

[@roywempor8395]

duh people mistakenly say hes 24 races hes half arrancar and half quincy hes not human, shinigami nor hollow. his mom is a quincy and the power from his dad went to white, who then nerged with her egg. in other words, Ichigo's real dad is the white hollow.

[@NeroDeAngelo]

I have a theory about why Ichigo uses the "fake" Tensa Zangetsu after Dangai. That is because he is "used" to this Blade and since "he is the blade", it doesn't matter what physical form it takes. His "True" Bankai can actually back this up, as it turns out that inside that big Sword was actually his original, or "fake" Shikai. And Kubo confirms in a Klub Outside question that Ichigo can use either The dual swords or the "fake" sword and change between them. Hell, we even see him using the "fake" it in the hell oneshot! So my guess is that the Sword Ichigo uses after Dangai is not his Bankai, nor Shikai... maybe, at this point, since the blade fused with his arm, the concept of Shikai and Bankai means nothing, and Ichigo is just at 100% at all times now, and the blades shape is the one which used for so long and got used to. After all, the weapon on his arm is different, the crossguard being much bigger and looking more "rough". I guess that after Ichigo released his "true" Bankai, he is now actually able to use whatever form he desires for his sword, be it Shikai, Bankai, Dual wielding, single Zweihänder or a dingy Katana. The sword does not contain his power, it is just an extension of himself and he uses it however the situation calls for.

[@MalikF15]

This fight confirmed two things. One is when you achieve transcendence your hair grows and second blade fuses into arm

[@TheTroyhalo]

I still firmly believe dangai ichigo an muggetsu are some of his strongest forms

[@esquizofasia]

1. True Bankai + Horn of Salvation 2. Mugetsu 3. Dangai / True Shikai 4. Vasto Lorde 5. Fullbringer Bankai

[@felipez3115]

Mugetsu It's not a form is a technique.

[@dragunkod]

@@felipez3115 it's both, it's is a technique that changes the form of the wielder into an embodiment of their blade at the risk of losing all of the power gained. it's like Bankai, where it is both.

[@donjulio1033]

​@@dragunkodpretty sure the form is the final getsuga tensho but mugetsu is the technique/attack he uses.

[@dragunkod]

@@donjulio1033 I always thought it was the same since his sword turns into pure riatsu, because he says something like "this is the final getsuga" then turns into it, but then says mugetsu. So it's hard to tell if it was just the attack or the whole thing transformation and attack. So if something says it's two different things I'm willing to admit I'm wrong. But for my own view, most of the attacks are also the names of the form/thing that they are.

[@Jarikraider]

And this all gets trivialized when Yhwach goes, "How about 'no'?"

[@benjiago6800]

I think of ichigo as a triangle, each corner is a piece of power. hollow, quincy, soul reaper. each corner can extend. this dangai form is just the full extension of that power.

[@User5hdbh]

no, it still a fragment of his true power

[@benjiago6800]

@@User5hdbh that's literally what i said. go back

[@jeanpaul512]

@@benjiago6800this is hilarious because this what I said when I read his comment 🤣🤣

[@ElRulis]

I have always thought of Dangai Ichigo as a “trial”. If EoS Ichigo is the peak of his power, when he accepted all of it, then Dangai will be the trial of that power, the test run we could say. Granted to him by artificially and indirectly accepting his powers back then. He doesn’t fully know how to use his powers, but they are the same as after “the blade is me”. That could explain why the Final Getsuga backfires that way, because he is not supposed to have that kind of power, or at least not acquire them that way. Notice how when Ichigo uses his Hollow powers after the events of “the blade is me” (further in the manga), he gains a look that is almost the same as White Tensa: one horn and one black eye.

[@cloudyven39]

The way Dangai Ichigo kept his composure for the entirety of the Aizen fight was just iconic 🔥🔥🔥

[@sirajel-bey]

Dangai Ichigo is my favorite form of his by far. The long hair, his arm merging with his sword and the chain was just so cool. Pretty sure he’d defeat the yhwach that killed Yama too

[@debateisaac15]

Dangai/Mugetsu Ichigo is = to True Shikai Ichigo btw so definitely

[@roywempor8395]

he was definitely at pre almighty yhwh level but he could still reclaim the shrifts and win.

[@debateisaac15]

@@roywempor8395 Hes above that

[@roywempor8395]

@@debateisaac15 nah almighty yhwh = bankai horn. true shikai is mugetsu level. base yhwh is dangai level and equal to Ichigo's base after soul king training. and fullbring bankai who lost to base yhwh is below all that.

[@debateisaac15]

@@roywempor8395 Mugetsu = True Shikai. Allmighty Yuha isn't who Bankai HOS is equal too, Hes equal to SOULKING Allmighty Yuha.

[@BarracudaDrifter]

The one thing that really pokes a hole in things though; is during the battle with Aizen, they talk about when spirit energy is so high it can't be sensed. Only people with equally as high or higher energy can sense that higher tier. Dangai Ichigo, Aizen can't sense Ichigo, but after the Blade is Me when Ichigo comes down from the Royal Palace, people sense his energy. In that case I feel like Dangai Ichigo would be higher than base Ichigo post the Blade is Me

[@MrGksarathy]

People can still sense Aizen's spiritual pressure as well in the TYBW, even though he is a post-transcendent being. Clearly, this is fuzzier than we know, and maybe transcendent beings can adjust their reiatsu to be detectable by weaker beings.

[@DBZCinema2KHD]

​@@MrGksarathyAizen DOES explain that he intentionally adjusted his spiritual pressure to have it be felt, so yes.

[@mishuncompree1362]

​@@DBZCinema2KHD Exactly, he literally explains that the only way he can be sensed is if he purposefully lowers his spiritual pressure so others can sense him.

[@paranoidpanzerpenguin5262]

@@MrGksarathy There's really scant evidence that TYBW Aizen is actually stronger, from a reiatsu perspective, than monster-god Aizen. For one Unmasked says monster Aizen is a form that is beyond that of a god, and the only confirmed gods in Bleach are Yhwach and the Soul King. And in TYBW Urahara bases his observation on Aizen's use of Hado 90 Kurohitsugi, which only Butterflyzen used, not monster Aizen, who completely abandoned all of his shinigami techniques and abilities in favor of raw energy projection. Even then Urahara only says chair Aizen MIGHT have become stronger, it's not a confident guess. And the last thing is that in the post chapter Kubo sketch from the TYBW chapter Urahara makes that observation is a depiction of Butterfly Aizen, not monster Aizen.

[@MrGksarathy]

@@paranoidpanzerpenguin5262 Even if he doesn't have the raw reiatsu of monster Aizen, he's definitely stronger by virtue of his expert control over it. Personally, holding back the Soul King's overflowing reiryoku to me puts him above monster Aizen because I think the latter would have struggled to do it, or at least as neatly.

[@petruraciula9056]

Jesus! That panda stood no chance! She just went directly Bankai on him!

[@CaptainKotetsu]

Dangai Ichigo was so powerful that transcended Aizen couldn’t even read his spiritual pressure. I feel like it’s pretty much impossible to measure that kind of power.

[@RickyUzumaki993]

He already couldn’t read Ichigo’s spiritual pressure, so that proves nothing

[@hellothere-jg2sg]

yhwach

[@GrumbleThe1st]

The reason why Azien couldn’t feel Ichigo’s reiatsu is for the same reason that most humans can perceive souls and why souls can’t feel reiatsu. They lacked the sufficient reiatsu. Spirituality powerful beings sense Spiritual beings through their Spiritual pressure if something’s Spiritual pressure is too great it interferes with their Spiritual awareness. Which is why when the captains became stronger they were able to sense Azien Reiatsu which had become even greater. Ichigo after having his power restored doesn’t seem to be any weaker than when he fought Azien. Kubo had also confirmed that Ichigo could use The Final Getsuga Tenshou after using it against Azien.

[@cryptic_beatz2127]

@@RickyUzumaki993you mean pre dangai? But literally one of the first things he says to ichigo when him and isshin get back is that he can no longer sense any spiritual pressure from him, key being no longer. Soo not true

[@RickyUzumaki993]

@@cryptic_beatz2127 I meant pre-Mugetsu

[@MrMusicfan28]

Nothing against True Shikai Ichigo but Dangai hands down is my fave look. That and his old Bankai after the Xcution arc.

[@tshepangpadime3246]

The G.O.A.T of Bleach content creators has dropped a video.🗿🤝

[@trutyatces8699]

Final Zanpakuto was Uryu's Quincy Glove but for Soul Reapers. There is little point to use it by the end of the series barring Mugetsu.

[@smallj900]

Ichigo is easily my fav anime protagonist. I can’t get enough of him

[@srttp2]

Right on time for me to listen to this while falling asleep, thank you mr tommo! ❤️

[@austinwall3085]

TOMMO!!! You should do a video defining who all you think can be considered transcendent in bleach!! That would be awesome!!

[@smslwrnc]

Definitely the best version of Ichigo hands down

[@underweenie]

I always liked the idea of Ichigo's Mugetsu form being the result of a similar situation to Gon's adult form from HxH. For the cost of making a restrictive pact and/or sacrificing your powers (nen in HxH), you can access your (theoretical) peak potential for a brief period of time. For Gon, the cost would be death (as nen is the expression of a character's life force), and for Ichigo, this would be the loss of his powers.

[@NeufAtora]

It's kind of funny to look back on when chapters like these were new. Kubo outright told us so many things that we ignored or didn't understand at the time.

[@phill555]

In the intent of becoming transcendant....aizen forgot the'' quincy'' in the équation that what he loose

[@Murakumo.Salmon]

BRO YALL LIKE THIS VIDEO‼️⁉️ HOW WE ONLY AT 2k LIKES GUYS CMON THE GOAT DESERVES MORE

[@Vantus4net]

1. There is no false zanpakuto in Ichigo's hands. All shinigami can change the shape of their sword, this ability also is available to Zanpakuto himself. That is, his zanpakuto, both in the first chapters and in the last ones, is the same, the Real one. 2. Many can use the final form of the sword in Ichigo's case (final getsuga tensho). All Zanpakuto does not allow it to be used because it essentially removes all protective limits and all the power goes away without exception, thereby Zanpakuto essentially Dies. 3. Ichigo's acceptance of the swords himself (after forging) and learning the truth does not change anything in his final powers. He is weaker than himself Dangai. Why? He understood the basics, but cannot control them well until the end of the manga + Zanpakuto will not allow all the powers to be released at once (as was previously), because this is equivalent to the death of Zanpakuto. 4. This point follows from point 3. Even Berserker who fought Ulquiorra with only part of his clothes (and clothes display the presence of Ratsu, like a percent bar) will be smarter and more powerful than Bankai Ichigo from the end of the manga, provided that Berserker has all his clothes. Since Ichigo can't even use fast regeneration... So there's no point in arguing here. 5. There is nothing surprising in Ichigo chopping Bach, who was deprived of some of his abilities for a couple of seconds, with an arrow at the end of the manga. After all, at the beginning of the story, even an ordinary Ichigo who did not know Bankai could damage Kenpachi with Shikai. Ichigo's powers themselves essentially specialize in maximum damage upon impact or cuts (hello final gensuga tensho). That is, Ichigo in the last chapters does not have the power of Dangai, it is simply not needed there. For those who disagree, i will give an example from Aizen's battle with Ichigo's father and Yoruichi. Ichigo's father was without shikai and bankai, and Yoruichi was without his zanpakuto at all, and they both dealt damage to a creature (Aizen) who had gone beyond the limits.

[@jeanpaul512]

I love how the fusion between the two is literally what ichigos true bankai form looks like

[@konnergibson3041]

Always a good day when tommo post

[@Murakumo.Salmon]

Thanks for the god tier content as always Tommo! Hope you’re well bro!!

[@lerona.martyr3811]

What do you think would have happened if ichigo learned of his quincy heritage during his dangai training. Like it was all about connecting with himself and his zanpakto. During ot he seemingly also got over his fear of his hollow inside him. so what if, zangetsu, recognizing his growth and maturity, and realizing the strength hed need to beat aizen taught him about his quincy heritage? It could have still been an emotional moment, using the powers of both his dad and mom to fight aizen, the guy with the twisted plan that resulted in white in the first place. Even if zangetsu was scared of ichigo understanding his full power that could have very well been his last fight and hed loose his powers regardless would his dangai form have been different? like closer to his tybw bankai? cus the quincy side would have had to fuse with tensa zangetsu and would probably change the forms apparanxe somewhat

[@Mars_yt699]

Whats crazy is that we saw ichigos true bankia before we even got his true shikia

[@TbxB95]

I think this goes as the same as Vegitto and Gogeta in DB, years of discussion in the fandom about who was stronger, although they were different fusions of the same guys, Goku and Vegeta, until Toriyama stated they are equally powerful. Here yes, probably fusing with your zanpakuto is the definitive stage, and the Final Getsuga Tensho (Shiba clan secret trumpcard?) is a forced way to merge with it, in order to get a temporaly PU but at huge price (this really fits Shiba self sacrifice nature). Ichigo of course was a special case, being a soul project of every race, and with that training, as you said too, he fully exploited all his powers (quincy, hollow, shinigami), that's why he reached an even higher level of trascendental Aizen. Basically he did the same in TYBW, just with a different process, more natural and stable, without costs. That said, Dangai and Mugetsu feats still seems better to me, but at the same time we have to say that the end of TYBW was rushed and Ichigo went all out only against Soul King Yhwach, who was clearly on another level. Let's see in the anime. To conclude, one question. Maybe I remember it wrong but wasn't there a passage in the novels (CFYOW?) where Ichibei, I think, talked about Ichigo and Aizen's defeat, stating he was at Soul King level at time? I will take reread, but I recall something like that.

[@procow2274]

I don't know what you mean with the first part it was stated out right that potara fusion was stronger than the fusion dance

[@TbxB95]

@@procow2274 I don't care about DB, but I recall it was in the promotional material for Broly movie where he made that statement.

[@zackconley5642]

I think the transcendent being idea was just aizens way of describing a ceiling to the power of a shinigami. A ceiling that he feels is put on him by Raio. It's just power level. If being 3 dimension meant just being above 2 dimension he wouldn't have made a being to counter Yamamoto. And urahara even says the hogyoko would have made Aizen stronger after final getsugatensho, it's why the seal was needed at all.

[@zackconley5642]

Kubo has built these characters to show they can be strong without understanding themselves, being bonded with their zanpoktou. And that even when they are bonded with them, they can be surpassed by another. But you cannot reach your fullest potential without bonding with your zanpaktou, understanding and accepting who you are.

[@MasterLittica]

Giving it some thought, I think Dangai and True Zanpakuto Ichigo are two sides of the same coin, both draw on his full breath of power but they do it in different ways, one being The Shinigami way of drawing on the powers seperatly and the Quincy way of drawing on a fused power. The Real difference, and what I would say the thing that pulls 'Quincy Method' ahead of 'True Shinigami' is the simple fact Ichigo spent 3 month getting his arse handed to him by the Fused Tensa Zangetsu. Think about the times Ichigo has been trained in the series, they ususally last at most a few days to a week and most are focused to learn/master a single techique or ability. But in the Dangai... the growth from that constant struggle...

[@zharpain]

The Final Getsuga is awfully like Lezt Stil, to the point that he loses his powers and like Uryu regains them later with the help of the others.

[@CrimZonxZero]

I would also add from the anime filler where the zanpakto have come alive as separate beings (also best filler arc in anime history) white tells ichigo while fighting zangestu that he will only help ichigo as long as ichigo does not wear his mask thus showing the connection of white being a true part of ichigo and whole separate blade in of himself

[@Stefanthro]

Something to consider: Perhaps Tensa Zangetsu being wrapped around Ichigo's arm wasn't the normal state of his bankai, but rather a precursor to using Mugetsu that was activated by Ichigo - like the way his Shikai's white cloth wraps around his arm right before Bankai is actually activated. Perhaps from the moment Ichigo emerged from Dangai he intended to used the FGT, and so went into this mode where the chain extended around his arm in preparation. The black cloth wrapped around his wrist and his hilt looks the same as the cloth he is wrapped in when he takes on the Mugetsu form.

[@brianacton8463]

I always had the impression that the when he transformed into Getsuga he released all of his outer power and protection as preparation for the attack and the moment he formed the black blade it contained all of his power. Getsuga has no physical blade and no shihakusho, he's basically stripped down, all of his spiritual pressure freed, ready for a singular use.

[@in-craig-ible6160]

Aww, he called her Mrs. Tommo, that's so cute!

[@TheBigExclusive]

Dangai Ichigo seemed like an unstable and temporary power up. A form he couldn't maintain for long.

[@ShadowAlex1]

Keep up the good job man, your content is so relaxind and awsome to watch. Lovin it!!

[@Blastimal]

I still think Dangai is far stronger than anything we have seen from him yet. Like completely on a different lvl. The only character that could fight him at all was still unable to even sense how strong he was, and lost in terms of power. The difference in Ichigo's power really after his training in the palace really has not been shown well in the manga or the anime. The gals we saw him fight right after he came back he could have defeated beforehand pretty easily without whatever that boost gave him. He was so much stronger than the other Captains that fought them when the arc started. Ultimately he fairs equally as poorly vs Yuha with his new power as he did before his Bankai was broken.

[@CodeineCoffee]

"I'm not sure I really answered any of my own questions, to be honest." My favorite kind of video. I think that Dangai Ichigo was more powerful than true Shikai Ichigo simply because he had reached the evolved state of the Zanpakuto and, even if he didn't know it, had all 3 of his powers fused into one single entity, unlike his true Shikai, which still separates them into two swords. Like you said in the video, he also had no reason to be limited in power by his Quincy side. I'm honestly not a fan of the two swords aspect of Ichigo's true Shikai because it undermines the point of unifying the 3 powers. It's hard to say whether he was more powerful than with his true Bankai, but his true Bankai was still not fused with his person. It's also worth asking whether the presence of an asauchi matters for power scaling if the sword is literally fused with the body of the wielder, since the blade and him are the same thing, after all. Having the sword fused with his arm seems to be a truer form of the Zanpakuto based on the unity of Shinigami and Zanpakuto spirit than his post-asauchi Bankai. It also looks cooler than his true Bankai and that is about 90% of my real argument. In reality, Kubo probably didn't think that far ahead when considering the Zanpakuto designs. From a narrative perspective, it also makes sense that Dangai Ichigo was the most powerful since he was 1v1ing a transcendent being and it came with the price of "permanently" losing his powers. If he had continued increasing in power from that point, the series would have gotten a bit ridiculous with the power scaling and set pieces. Kubo was smart to drop him down in power for the rest of the series so they didn't end up demolishing entire planets by the time TYBW was over, just meteors.

[@deathmark1940]

They can destroy but narrative wise wont feat the story

[@n0ccc___vvv]

Note that the Dual-Swords is not the end all-be all form of Ichigo's zanpakuto post war, he can change its form at will and it can look like regular old Zangetsu, as it was in the bonus chapter. I think that powerscaling wise, what the asauchi gives him is an actual Bankai ability, compared to his "non-existant" speed one that he had for most of the series. An ability that even Yuha decided it shouldn't be messed with.

[@espada9000]

Still the most broken Ichigo out of all forms.

[@danielmacdonald9287]

Outside of Yhwach shenaningans, I'm pretty sure Mugetsu is still the strongest attack in the entire series.

[@SinHurr]

The other sort of big difference between _Dangai_ and _The Blade is Me_ is that Dangai Ichigo's zanpakuto still isn't a "true" zanpakuto, forged from an Asauchi.

[@jpavlik10]

I'm convinced that Mugetsu is Ichigo's Letzt Stil, same thing happened to Uryu when he used his...

[@gametime2947]

Man we all know ichigos real power is the power of friendship

[@curtisflowers2733]

“Ichigo gets ran thru.. AND HE LIKES IT?!?!”

[@Satire-Gaming]

I always felt dangai ichigo and his true bankai are similar power levels, it is just once he learns everything in TYBW and has his true zanpakuto he is able to access and use his full power without "burning it up" and losing it.

[@razielstalker]

I still think that dangai ichigo is thae strongest version of him.

[@motivatedstorm3816]

one thing that I feel Like Dangai Ichigo is, is what Byakuya says during his fight with Ichigo during the Souls Society Ark It takes years to achieve bankai, and even more such as 10 years to master it Ichigo after achieving his false bankai never truly trained with it for a long time which was evident with how his body was breaking down and became slower during his fight with Byakuya Dangai is Ichigo with 3 months of trainibg with his bankai along with being able to use more of all his powers

[@SharkRoach1]

If Ichigo died and was brought back as a soul/shinigami, do you think he could attain a new or retain his former shinigami powers that he lost before the last 2 archs?

[@meijinwari3988]

I love the fact that ichigo true bankai looks similar to tensa zangetsu hollow fusion during dangai arc. The horn and hollow eyes on his right side, and his clear face on left side. Really wish that if we see him again in this form if we ever see him again.

[@saketmeena9581]

Dangai Ichigo had done 3 months continuous training before learning Final GetsugaTensho. I think that 3 month training also which makes a big difference when compared with royal palace episode. Unfortunately that was done in Dangai, so it got reversed. Perhaps that reversal was inevitable or maybe auppressed because of massive power of Ichigo. If reversal was suppressed because of his massive power, then his reversal became possible after he did Final Getsuga Tensho.

[@grimmjow928]

I wanna see ichigo get his quincy powers back and use them in the hell arc, that would be dope

[@qoxx]

why does yuha's form change from an old man to his younger self when bankai is activated, despite him being ichigo's quincy power and not his shinigami power? shouldn't white be the only one who changes? and why did he call himself tensa zangetsu when it's actually not him? also, if ishin created the getsuga tenshou, then why does ichigo have it too despite them both having totally different abilities, ishin's being fire based? doesn't that mean zangetsu didn't have any unique abilities up until (The Blade Is Me)? Are zanpakto abilities inherited or can just anyone learn the getsuga tenshou?

[@Evangelionism]

Aizen got Kendrick Lamar'd by a teenager. 💀

[@saketmeena9581]

My theory: Ichigo inherited white who had both shinigami and hollow power. Ichigo had inherited soul reaper power from his own father. And quincy powers from his mother. Maybe Ichigo really lost soul reaper portion he inherited from father permanently when he used 'Final GetsugaTensho'. And then other powers went dormant. What other powers? Powers inherited from 'white' and his mother. When he used Final GetsugaTensho he had full force of all powers, but after using this special technique 'Mugetsu', he lost soul reaper power inherited from father. Why he was able to get back his powers was because of 'white' who had soul reaper and hollow power both. If this thoery is correct, then his potential in his True Bankai form was higher than what we saw in TYBW arc. If he didn't have to use 'Mugetsu', then after royal palance training, he would have been more powerful than his peak we saw in TYBW arc. I think whoever uses their noble clan's special technique Final GetsugaTensho is supposed to lose his all soul reaper powers. Whay do you say? Correct me. Tell me portions of my theory which are wrong.

[@SaturnineXTS]

I think the concept of transcendence is separate from not being to sense someone's reiatsu - the latter can happen with a single power type being and is dependent only on the strength of that reiatsu. Aizen could lower his own enough so it'd be detectable by mere humans and Kenpachi couldn't be sensed by his own men during his fight with Gremmy, despite not being transcendent like Aizen. The analogy to 2D and 3D beings here is quite adequate - if a bird lands on a windowsill, the 2d surface of the sill will meet with the bird's feet, but if the bird willingly takes off, the 2d surface of the sill has no way of forcing an interaction. But these "dimensions" aren't about breaking the boundaries between different types of spiritual beings (the Visored could easily be sensed, for example) - it's merely about the strength of one's reiatsu.

[@RedTRM]

One thing I will say is that Ichigo is lacking the training he got in the Lost Agent arc, which was a pretty good buff for him (and also taught him how to control his power better).

[@kaiwong6563]

I feel like dangai ichigo is what was said, the pinnacle of hollow and shinigami without the quincy holding him back. Yes he accepted his power, but only what he knew of it. His quincy power was not active until the blade is me. So almost his true shikai, then dangai following his true bankai would be the scale

[@B.o.o.L]

Dangai Ichigo is an absolute calamity of a power scale.

[@aaronhall470]

I feel like in order for him to use the same level of power we saw him use versus transcended Aizen . We would’ve seen it once he release his Bankai. Which is why once he released it versus Yaha ,Yaha immediately broke the blade. Because he knew he wouldn’t be able to contend with Ichigo. So his only option was to keep trying to shatter the blade and stop him from using it.

[@kelvs45]

Think of dangai ichigo as the version of current ichigo without his true blade. From what I understand a zanpakuto consists if 3 things, the blade(asauchi) the shinigami's soul and the zanpakuto spirit. He had 2 things already but without his real blade.

[@BrokenWingman]

It kinda seems like "Dangai" is the strongest form possible for a Soul Reaper to attain. They fuse entirely with their Bankai, and have access to Mugetsu; where they *can* sacrifice their powers for an unstoppable attack. The Blade is Me Ichigo has a higher upper limit, but he hasn't really learned how to use his Quincy powers, AT ALL, so he's not there yet. It's not like Squad Zero would know how to train him in quincy arts. Also, outside the manga/anime, we know Kubo had to rush the ending. So who knows how the TYBW arc would have turned out if he could have really taken his time and did everything he wanted over a longer period of time. So there *has* to have been some shortcutting and changes made to expedite the ending. I mean, presumably, Ichigo only wins because of Aizen. So he's definitely not at the pinnacle of his new powers yet. Had Kubo more time, perhaps we'd have gotten a very different journey to defeating Yhwach.

[@dark_fire_ice]

What i find more terrifying; Tatsuki was able to sense Aizen but not Ichigo

[@borisbozilov8299]

During the Dangai training, Zangetsu appears in different forms. Yhwach in his young form is Tensa Zangetsu, but White with the horned mask should also be refered as Tensa Zangetsu. So way back then we got to see the bankai form of Ichigo's Zangetsu. And when they megre that is the true Tensa Zangetsu. That is why the horn of salvation bankai form is so similar to the form Ichigo trained with during the Dangai training.

[@ryanambsdorf2859]

Lets not forget his dad kept the dangai open for those three months. Thats crazy power

[@Pr0digyZRX]

So a bit of head cannon... what if the reason both Ichigo and Aizen had similar transcended forms like fusing with their zanpakutos is due to the fact that their zanpakutos arent actually made for an asouchi. What if Aizen built his own zanpakuto before becoming a shinigami like Ichigo did when he pulled it forth from his own reiatsu. Meaning both are technically false. Or in the same vein... Ichigo's was obviously false but what if Aizen's was false due to the hogyoku and the zanpakuto is not supposed to fuse to their hands. Cause based on the principles of what we know Ichigo is stronger after the blade is me... yet his zanpakuto is not fused to his hand. Tbh the fase zanpakuto fits this theory better cause like Ichigo pulled it from nowhere just by using his reiatsu so the natural state of it was literally part of his reiatsu. Once he had a proper asouchi it was not fused even though he's technically still transcended and comparably stronger than Dangai Ichigo...

[@obrians-brown1307]

i imagine ichigo using Mugetsu now could be like Vegeta using Final Explosion in Dragon Ball Super in the original DBZ series he blew himself up but now he can survive it albeit out of energy or stamina. Ichigo can probably do Mugestsu but needs to recover over time. Maybe like a week or a month.

[@bastionsea2829]

I feel that we'd need to see a new Ichigo vs Aizen duel to compare. If dangai Ichigo was comparable, would one of the 0 squad be able to destroy Aizen? We're missing key elements to compare the forms, so we can't really say anything

[@YuunaAndCuddles]

If the Final Getsuga will be used again, given his awareness, I'm betting all realms will be "cut" or reset. Hell arc maybe?

[@AngelPl4y3r]

I don’t think he needs to relearn it since he understands his place BUT I don’t think he can use again without losing his power because in the novels is said the his family clan developed a ritual (AKA Mugetsu) in which the noble families where to sacrifice themselves to separate the worlds instead of having the soul king be the sacrifice but this wasn’t done in time, hence the current state of affairs. Is something only his clan has because of how they intended to be sacrifice for a greater good.

[@eradicateyou8772]

I'd imagine Dangai Zangetsu would be just as strong as Ichigo is post the blade is me, seeing how his form resembles ichigo's final form so much

[@adminscottj]

I love that you include your wife in the videos. You are helping lead fellow nerds to a happy marriage :)

[@AlexFalkor]

Thing is....I'd argue yes that Dangai Ichigo is in fact stronger than any version we saw of Ichigo in the future for one specific reason He actually trained. For 3 months worth of time. Ichigo in MOST situations isn't put through that long period of training. I think the 2nd longest time was when he was achieving Bankai? So really if you think about it, Ichigo is honestly held back by his lack of proper training. If you had him train a whole year, I guarantee Aizen would be dumbfounded how fast this Hybrid really is growing.

[@alsman8508]

One of my biggest complaints about this scene in general is the fact that the Final GT always seemed unnecessary. Ichigo doesn't struggle for a single moment with Aizen, and it seems like he could have easily beat him without risking his powers, but he goes and does it anyways. Would like to know what your thoughts on this are.

[@thejworks07]

The ichi we see in TYBW Is him at his upmost shinigami powers aided by quincy The Dangai ichi is He is actually the Zanpaktuo This the Filler arch He was a littetal manifestation of He and Zangetsu

[@kamikazehound3243]

I wonder if it is possible that Aizen other time could achieve the level that Ichigo can since we see that he indeed does continue to evolve. With time could he reach that level of transcendence. I also wonder if it's possible for Aizen to mix himself with Quincy power since he is able to evolve.

[@pedroballinger2540]

Aizen has the hogyoku, Ichigo is the hogyoku!

[@LeoLikesLamb]

Your videos butter My biscuits thank you

[@coatguy2990]

Can you do a „how strong was white?“ next please? Very fascinated by Aizens creation and honestly I wonder how strong the original was. Probably not captain level since Aizen had to intervene. But compared to a vasto lorde..?

[@DShaoushoku19]

I really like the theory that Mugetsu is actually ichigo’s Letz Still

[@jaycjas3143]

Wouldn't make sense at all. Final getsuga is a shinigami equivalent of letz stehl and is a shinigami technique. The difference is that he is using a natural fusion of arrancar and Quincy powers to fuel it. If he trained with the glove then sure he can absolutely use lets stehl but he doesn't use Quincy techniques of his own accord.

[@MrGksarathy]

​@@jaycjas3143The Final Getsuga Tenshou seems like a Shiba technique, if Engetsu was capable of teaching Isshin, and maybe it has something to do with the Shiba clan founder's desire to atone for his role in the original sin and free the Soul King.

[@jaycjas3143]

@@MrGksarathy it is. The clan founder created it to free the soul king from his cocoon prison.

[@cobaltjay9862]

The concept of transcendence is never dropped, in fact Ichigo’s royal palace is concluded with Ichibei making him undergo an ordeal that would make him transcend the abilities of all soul reapers. Ichigo even receives 4 extra pupils compared to Mimihagi’s one, Pernida’s 2, Yhwach’s 3, and Reio’s 4. Dangai Ichigo is nothing compared to Royal Guard Ichigo

[@Blade12113]

I would argue thst Ichigo's quincy powers came back at the same time he got his ithers back in the Fullbring. In tge manga when you see Ichigo block Ginjous getsuga with his hand it clearly looks lije he's absorbing the reishi as he causes a hole to appear in the middle. Probably not truely quincy but instincive reactions.

[@BeemaSteama]

Dangai ichigo is absolutely insane. It’s an ichigo only using his shinigami and hollow powers, fighting against his shinigami, hollow, and Quincy persona. So if he had the ability to use his Quincy powers at this point he’d be the strongest character in the series, even more powerful than Ywach maybe

[@AngelKyoX]

my head canon for Dangai Ichigo , is that this is Ichigo who is completely self realized. Like all of Ichigos forms are a representation of his self esteem/personality manifested into power. Ichigo at this point just figured out the meaning of his life more or less found the answer. But hey i could be wrong.

[@krisa7910]

Dangai Ichigo just had too much rizz for the story.

[@liamstaddon9348]

Personally and this is just my theory but I think he could do it again. However I think it'd still be a "one time" use kind of thing. Unless I'm misremembering even his father says as much, and he doesn't have the same unique circumstances as Ichigo does. That being said, I don't think he'd ever really need it, he has the capability to utilize his abilities to the fullest now I believe, getting as close if not fulfilling the same power as final getsuga.

[@Poptart21000]

It just doesn’t make sense that Dangai Ichigo would be more powerful than a fully understood, and fully realized manifestation of Ichigo’s true full spectrum of power. Dangai Ichigo is the pinnacle of Ichi’s Shinigami powers and nothing else - not to mention that it was a restrained version of his powers at that. Only what his Quincy side couldn’t hold back. There is absolutely no representation of quincy in his Dangai form. I believe that since Ichigo is part everything, ANY aspect of his being can be transcended - and that Dangai is the form of his Shinigami at it’s maximum in and of itself. Imagine an Ichigo with every single aspect Transcended.