Teaching Arena Zoomers About STAX | Against the Odds | Historic Magic: the Gathering (MTG)

[@joeyc6381]

you were right, the reason Heliod came back is because their devotion was only 4 without him on the board so he turns into a creature after he enters

[@kingnapikkingoficeland7856]

so, cause he's an enchantment before being a creature?

[@OsvaldoChannel1]

@@kingnapikkingoficeland7856 yes. He enters as not a creature, then as he enters he sees that devotion is 5 and then becomes a creature

[@OGNoNameNobody]

This Answer is Correct.

[@dementievatz]

It’s weird, because Containment Priest is a replacement ability “if a creature would enter the battlefield.” Heliod looks ahead and sees that it won’t be a creature because there isn’t enough devotion on the board, so it enters, but it enters as a creature because of its own devotion. I read about this interaction when planning to use Containment Priest as a sideboard card against Xenagos/Worldspine Wurm/Indomitable Creativity decks. It’s weird and unintuitive, but it’s how it works.

[@jaxsonbateman]

@@kingnapikkingoficeland7856 That's not quite it. It's because he has an ability that 'shuts off' him being a creature if the devotion isn't high enough - which is the case while he's not on the battlefield. Because it's a replacement effect that affects how the card enters the battlefield, it needs to be a creature as its entering (which it isn't, because of the lack of devotion). If it were, instead, a triggered ability that triggered when a creature entered the battlefield that wasn't cast, it would work, as triggered abilities look at permanents as they exist when they enter (so, for example, in this case Heliod would trigger a card like Soul Warden because her triggered ability sees that a creature entered the battlefield). Basically, replacement effects can be confusing. :P

[@augustusbrown4441]

Seth: "Emoting when your opponent is roping makes you looks bad" Crim: "I crowdsurf the Karn the moment I see the timer come up"

[@MTGGoldfish]

We have very different emote philosophies, lol

[@starmanda88]

C R O W D S U R F T H E K A R N

[@gabrielcondon6895]

People who rope don't deserve rights anyway 😂

[@Tawnos_]

@@MTGGoldfish I turned off emotes in beta and never looked back. It certainly makes the game less frustrating :)

[@jcft1408]

@@Tawnos_ skill issue

[@kaydenbarney2941]

I absolutely love Seth clicking the smiley face on the did you have fun screen

[@runescapewarrior66]

"I would click it twice if I could" Is my favorite part

[@Volttikoira]

Mtggoldfish might be my favourite educational channel. Teaching new players all the important life lessons.

[@VRanger100]

Seth: Today we're going to prevent our opponents from playing Magic on Arena. MTGA Economy: Hey that's my job.

[@Linky609]

This would be more funny if it weren't so damn accurate haha.

[@ashdog9235]

Funnily enough I want to build stax but is like over 50 rares 😬

[@alejandrorivas4585]

​@@ashdog9235that'll be 50 dollars k thx

[@recusantvessel]

@@alejandrorivas4585try $125 :))))

[@fudawg45]

What? I’ve been playing gobs of Magic for free for years on Arena.

[@bryantan4228]

New sub series of Against the Odds called "Teaching Arena Zoomers"? This is a sequel to Teaching Arena Zoomers About Hard Locks and Chalice

[@ciaran.downey]

Yes please, these are some of my fave videos

[@brighty-go6nn]

Are there actually that many people who started mtg with arena, I know I am one of those but sometimes it feels that I’m alone in that

[@TheDylls]

Having started with Naya Burn in modern back in the day, I saw Naya Zoo has been doing well recently and I'm kinda stoked lol

[@ConManAU]

I first played Magic a long time ago (back when mana burn was still a thing) but I quit for many years and only came back recently via Arena. So I’m not technically a Zoomer but I did miss a lot of these classic(?) deck archetypes.

[@spumy_plughole1191]

@@brighty-go6nn I'm an arena zoomer lol

[@LadyMapi]

When I first saw the video length, I legitimately thought you only played 2-3 games. Turns out that I underestimated Arena players. The match vs. Elves was one of the most beautiful things I've seen in a while.

[@Collisto2435]

“You know crim would be crowd surfing karn” God yes I know he would

[@abe_5536]

Containment priest/displacer loops against elves was so gross, I love it 😂

[@harune8476]

Yeap. Totally thought game 1 was a fluke, then they got wrecked worse in game 2 by the same setup.

[@50mm_]

Favorite moment: Following the one land, one keep defeat, Seth shrugs and says, "It's just one of those things. There's nothing we could have done. Nothing we could have done differently at all. The Magic Gods just didn't want us to win."

[@jaredwonnacott9732]

Especially as he looks over to the side and shrugs.

[@Modest7787]

I love Seth educating arena zoomers about early magic.

[@arken2903]

Watching Seth play, joke and give his opinion is magical, it's like having a Dumbledore showing you how Magic works

[@DonovanPresents]

I love how the one deck to beat old school magic was an old school magic deck itself 😂 Also, the last game with lifegain: Drannith Magistrate shuts down Disturb creatures as well!

[@williambosma8726]

This warms my heart seeing all the stax ❤️

[@TheDylls]

"How does your deck win?" You decide to concede. "No, I mean what's the wincon?" Destroying your will to continue

[@panko2848]

36:03 so i looked this up, apparently because Heliod only becomes a creature due to its OWN white pip giving enough devotion it avoids the Containment Priests effect, since upon entering it is considered an enchantment, and then immediately afterwards checks devotion count and becomes a creature. if the opponent had one more white pip on the board Heliod would have been exiled since it would have entered as a creature i believe. EDIT: should have watched a bit further, you immediately assumed the correct reason lol

[@kevinwonnacott5150]

"I would click this twice if I could" was gold.

[@Henzoid]

Seth, I was 100% sure you were correct about that Heliod re-entry being an arena bug so I did some digging. And it turns out, nope. “As a God enters the battlefield, your devotion to its color will determine whether any replacement effects that affect creatures entering the battlefield apply to that God. Because replacement effects are considered before the God is on the battlefield, the mana symbols in its mana cost won’t be counted when determining this.”

[@jamespeckham4089]

all those devotion requirements are static , in play, ABILITIES. its still a CREATURE CARD. anywhere but on the battlefield they are still technically creatures. if you remove all abilities from a god card the devotion thing no longer applies

[@catgirlQueer]

​@@jamespeckham4089as it enters it does not have enough devotion during the creature check, because it isn't on the field yet, so it's not a creature, but when it enters properly it sees itself on the field so enters as a creature, no?

[@coleboggan8950]

This video was actually a riot and i absolutely loved it. I like your regular commander content as well, but would love to see more episodes like this every few weeks!

[@Lemony711]

Seeing Stax work on arena makes me immeasurably happy.

[@angrybellsprout]

Not sure what this has to do with smokestack. Feels more like taxes...

[@MTGFaded]

Stax is a term referring to cards that restrict the ability to play the game. Smokestack was the first one. Tax cards are stax pieces.

[@chasebethersonton5169]

Smokestack made people sac permanents, so I consider that to be stax. Maybe we need a "Stax and Tax"

[@kristeenlivesay2664]

I love these ones, learning about these kinds of decks is almost a right of passage for MTG players.

[@XxKyle318xX]

Strict proctor was incredible in this. It’s a card I’ve seriously overlooked because I felt like everytime it hit the field it was doing work

[@SpinAroundU]

As I explained stax (even thought without the actual stax I'd argue it's more like D&T) once to a newbie friend : "Stax is breaking your legs in order to break your opponent's, except *you* can actually win with broken legs."

[@MTGGoldfish]

Haha, this is a perfect description.

[@wesleywyndam-pryce5305]

I like to use doom foretold as a stand in for smoke stax.

[@nathanielreichley4640]

​@@wesleywyndam-pryce5305Nice that's a good point!

[@fish_in_distress]

I got into MTG by playing Legacy basically by accident because I didn't know any better, so these videos really take me back lmao

[@izzyv830]

as an arena zoomer i gotta say this deck looks incredibly sweeeet. plus anything that dunks on control has my approval

[@HeruCS2]

I got the mutavault + book of exalted deeds combo off right before I was gonna lose, so the dude played it out until my only permanent left in play was mutavault from an ultimate, then when he had no cards left they used all their timeouts. Truely the best game of magic I’ve played.

[@theetiologist9539]

This has to be one of the best intros ever. I fricking love it.

[@redstonepro5412]

i am very glad that you do such educational content also for your opponents

[@bobklaasen5358]

That was some insanely lucky draws against that elves deck. And containment priest + displacer is not a combo I would have thought of but its really fun to see.

[@ben_clifford]

4:10 That intro got me PUMPED UP. I can't wait to see how things turn out.

[@Majdjejsneei4]

I cant believe how many salty ropes and instant scoops you got, that was filthy

[@adamtobiasz8793]

Another great video brother Set. I really enjoyed seeing people scoop up to you.

[@japanime313]

I'm glad I can rely on you to teach the ways of old to these zoomers🤣

[@HiggzWasHere]

Opponent: gets mana starved Seth: Yeah that was a good one!

[@theyonlycomeoutwhenitsquiet]

This deck gives me such Teferi/Knowledge Pool vibes... so happy!!!

[@KunouNoHana]

So the Heliod thing is, as you guessed, because they had exact devotion. By removing it you lowered their devotion so it wasn't a creature, then when it came back it's mana symbol gave them devotion again so it became a creature AFTER containment priest had already checked it.

[@seanclark4071]

When you played prison, I commented on the fact that that style of deck really preys on the historic meta. It seems this remains true

[@SeleenShadowpaw]

If you are already doing arena exhibitions, i'd like to ask that you include the wildcard costs of the deck in the cost preview maybe? Knowing how much the deck costs in paper or tix kinda does jack in this instance. And it at least gives you a feeling of what you'd need to craft it yourself.

[@stonerainproductions]

I wish we had a Smoke Stack so we could complete the experience! Great video!

[@MTGGoldfish]

Me too :(

[@47Mortuus]

@@MTGGoldfish would be a completely different deck

[@MesivYT]

36:20 Heliod is the 5th devotion, so it’s not a creature until Heliod enters

[@WushuTaz]

Gotta love that evil stax laugh that only a fun game of stax can provide.

[@SpellingBeeWiner]

Keeping a 1 lander lol. That was so painful to watch. Everything else was amazing, totally love the deck. I need to try this!

[@matiasc003]

"We stax away their will to play magic, we got them" LOVED IT!

[@YepNah]

Genuinely seems like a pretty sweet deck. Loved this episode.

[@Qub3rs]

Stax... my mortal enemy... My hatred for Stax is infinite... Only entertaining when I'm not the opponent...

[@jjanderson12001]

Makes me giddy when you’re “teaching Zoomers” videos come out nothing sweeter!! Thanks Seth you’re the best

[@ngbrother]

This deck was legit. Very cohesive. In terms of game play, there were a couple times when you cast combat tricks at sorcery speed. 😅

[@Soulus101]

I've been trying to build this deck for ages! Thanks for this!

[@mrsnufflegums]

Arena zoomers really need to understand the hell that is a lock-out stax list. They just don't get how brutal it can be to play against.

[@TheAndyDish]

People hate on stax, then they can't do anything about it. Funny how that happens!

[@Netro1992]

Making zoomer squirm with old archetypes is always fun.

[@toolittletoolate]

Ah fantastic, I thought you might have done this already but I look forward to this

[@bryankopkin6869]

“Opponent is on brand. I wonder if they are actually an elf.” - Seth, probably better known as “Saffron Olive”

[@harune8476]

Amazing seth! love the Arena zoomers videos. I only hope that we one day get the cards to teach Arena zoomers about lantern control.

[@davidmorales-dm7xm]

First time showing us the survey, this was a monumental moment in Against the Odds.

[@brycerathsack7885]

This is the wholesome content I subbed for.

[@MrMcPezza]

Historic seems like a cool format, just a shame it’s affected by all the “arena cards” and digital edits.

[@jjjbowen221]

"Stax" comes from the card "smokestack" from Urza's Saga, one of the original pieces.

[@colinrobinson4464]

Super interesting to watch you play Stax in historic after only ever heard of Stax as a commander boogeyman. With certain strategies like this, I do think it would be interesting to hear you talk about how to counter some of the strategies that you play in ATO. I know the answer might be "Opponent just needs to play magic" haha but would still be interested to hear. And not what deck I should play to counter it, more like "if you're playing tempo and encounter this in the wild, what should you do?"

[@wesleywyndam-pryce5305]

I'm a stax player, its very dependent on what deck you are. its all about the long game though unless you're aggro and can go under.

[@matthewnesgoda2498]

I ran UW control in Strixhaven standard and Strict Proctor won me almost every game it landed. It killed lands, life gain, elves, and a lot more. Nobody expected it since nobody played it and it was a total bomb.

[@Atmapalazzo]

31:32 HE FINALLY FIGURED IT OUT! ITS A MIRACLE!

[@nathanwrennmn]

Some wholesome content. The world needs more of this.

[@justinwhite9353]

This video was extremely satisfying to sit through 😂

[@Jackson666fan]

loving the historic content!

[@Miluric]

With all the value packed into creatures nowadays, ETB hate cards really saved the match-up. I recognized it even back in Ixalan with Tocatli Honor Guard. Way to show it to the Arena Zoomers!

[@apocpon1944]

"Did you have fun in that match?" God, what a perfect time for Arena to ask lmao

[@mth4456]

I grew up playing against Balance, Land Tax, fast mana, Serra Angel. Is the millennial Nerd equivalent of "I walked to school uphill both ways!"

[@alexleblanc6364]

Can we get a full stream of this Seth?! It was so much fun to watch

[@TheLunaLockhart]

that elves deck had war flashbacks in game 2, a mixture of deja vu and shellshock

[@Gitah92]

Damn, just looking at the deck tech RN. But wow, this is a masterpiece.

[@OGNoNameNobody]

Emoting is how I acknowedge my oppoments Saltiness. Two timeouts spent = 1 "Your Go". On the last time out, the pattern is "Nice!", "Good Game", Nice!, Good Game, Nice!, Good Game, Good Game, Good Game, Good Game. If entered early & promptly, they Salter exploded as the last "Good Game" pops up.

[@jordanhanson6611]

I love how vastly different opinions you and Crim have on the emotes. "They're there for a reason" vs "they're BM regardless of the situation" LOL

[@alecolson1501]

Yeah man, Strict Proctor is an extremely good card. I remember pulling one right when STX came out and it was such a fun card to see people experience for the first time lol

[@davidcrawford5324]

Granted I'm a year late to the party, but I thought I'd put in my 2 cents on this deck. I think it's great, and I have a suggestion on something to add if you can avoid using instants unless it's your turn. Defense Grid makes all spells cost a whopping 3 more when it's not your turn, thus making control and burn decks MUCH harder to play if you can keep it on the table, and tbh control decks are most likely one of the few that can shut this one down if they manage to get the lands out on every turn and have the right color mana to cast the spells needed to do so. In addition there are a couple of enchantments that can be used as well. Aura of Silence and if you are willing to splash a bit of blue in, Monastery Siege. The first one makes all Artifact and Enchantment spells cost 2 more for your opponents, and you can sacrifice it to get rid of a really nasty Artifact or Enchantment causing you problems that is already in play. The second one lets you either draw an extra card every turn but then discard a card...OR, you can make all spells that target you or a permanent you control cost 2 more. There's also a white enchantment called Ghostly Prison that makes your opponent pay 2 mana for each creature they want to attack you with. There's a blue enchantment that does the exact same thing called Propaganda so you can have one of each in Commander decks thus getting around the 1x only rule. There's also a blue Planeswalker that makes opponents' spells that target your creatures or Planeswalkers cost an additional 2 mana as well. This deck can greatly benefit by going from a mono white deck to a UW deck due to the blue cards I mentioned that have good synergy with the theme, as well as having the added benefit of being able to run counter-spells if desired to keep your combo pieces around long enough to get them all in place and lock your opponent down.

[@Awesomesausages]

I could watch a couple videos of Seth playing stax every day and be happy.

[@uphillwalrus5164]

Stax has always been a super interesting archetype for me purely from a theory perspective. Neither active, reactive, nor midrange like 99% of other decks.

[@timwu15]

I can physically feel the pain of your opponent and that makes me happy in a very sadistic way.

[@claycook-mowery1416]

My first 10 games with this deck, my opponents apparently had about 4 non-creature cards in their deck. Ninjas, goblins, red-green stompy, elves. Literally the only 2 games I won were against artifact-only decks.

[@dakodastevens8972]

I honestly don't think keeping that 1 lander was a mistake. Risky, but when you are in a bad match up, you often have to take risks or gets a little lucky to win. You needed 1 land out of your top 2 maybe 3 cards, that's a pretty high chance, your chances of getting an above average draw if you mulled to 6 was probably lower than that. In general I am more willing to either keep risky hands or mulligan hands that are a little below average in bad match ups.

[@47Mortuus]

That moment when you brew a new deck, are in the first match ever and see a well established card that actually fits your deck perfectly, more so than the opponents well established deck (Esper Sentinel)

[@anthonycastaneda1331]

I'd really love a tshirt with "Sweet, Sweet" as part of it!

[@petrsevcik5044]

Heliod entering the battlefield is weird. Effects, that care about "creature entering the battlefield", look at it immediately after it enters the battlefield, which means they count the mana symbol in Heliod's own mana cost. However, effects, that care about "creature would enter the battlefield" (like Containment Priest) look at your devotion immediately *before* Heliod enters the battlefield and thus don't count Heliod's own mana symbol. This means, if your devotion is exactly 4+1 (1 from Heliod), Heliod enters as a creature, but gets around Containment Priest.

[@mymusic2403]

"I wonder if they're actually an elf" that part actually killed me LOL

[@Chris-yb8bg]

Power move. Play lotus field into strict procter's ability for the combo, then pay the 2 and sac two lands anyway.

[@moox100]

that elves matchup was brutal it was like you kicked a puppy

[@jccusell]

I love how Seth explains where the name comes from and shows the card it was named after.

[@chrisschweitzer5558]

Pretty sure Stax is named after Smokestack.

[@Zaqzorn]

The Heliod thing would work if off his devotion was greater than 5 when Heliod re enters. when it was removed it became drops 4 and it becomes a regular enchantment meaning containment priest doesn’t effect it

[@souocesar]

This reminds me the good ol days of locking fool with pool and teferi. Oh please revisit the good old lock decks. :)

[@Axelf83]

I loved this educational video so much!

[@paultuck]

I'm not a fan of Stax, I've been locked out of the game under the oppressive weight of it on several commander games. But watching UW Control get crushed by Stax. This...this does put a smile on my face.

[@agrape2887]

Watching elfball scoop to a displacer is great

[@adizzle625]

This video made me so happy. Take them to class Seth!

[@Linky609]

"Back in my day no one played magic, we just passed the turn. And we liked it that way" Zoomer: "OK grandpa, I'm gonna go play turn 3 greasefang."

[@JacoDeltaco]

Seth: maybe it sweet because we dont have land in our hand? me: he learn omg lol p.s. I dont realy care you are the only MTG creator I watch and it been year so clearly if keeping bad hand is not a deal breaker p.s.s. I also keep even worst hand

[@Sean-bq9bm]

I don’t see a single doom foretold which follows more with the smokestack theme which is where the term stax came from

[@MasterCrvo]

So funny...I worked on a version of thus deck all night last night, using stone rain as well. Soooooo fun

[@MasterCrvo]

I'm really excited to incorporate some of these ideas, too. Thanks for your work!!

[@mobmango4]

They're definitely gathering data on Karn/Nykthos and Rakdos decks. I'm getting those surveys almost exclusively in those matches. When I added Karn to my deck they pop up every couple matches now

[@franciscoalonso108]

I guess the Displacer-Priest thing didn't work with the Heliod because when it´s exiled it's not a creature, it becomes a creature as soon as it ETBs

[@Repaurcas]

Your thought with Heliod is correct, it's exactly 4 Devotion without it, so it's Not a creature

[@matthewbell4897]

That elves match was brutal. Absolute massacre