Muff Pistol - 1850's Ladies CCW

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The muff pistol is a specific style of highly concealable, low power self defense firearm that was targeted towards women. Let's take a look at this 1857 Allen & Thurber variant.
Pepperbox:
• 1850's Self Defense: T...

[@TheGunner11]

For those not in the know, that’s about 1/30th of the muzzle energy of a decent 9mm defensive round.

[@jozefbubez6116]

Yeah! Might be just as well off with a catapault? Here in the UK 12 ft/lbs is the legal limit for spring air-rifles so not much go in this little pistol.

[@SomeGuyInSandy]

@@jozefbubez6116 I'ma guess that's enough to change your mind though...

[@Cerberus1163]

....make sense. Its a tiny black powder muzzleloading pistol.

[@jozefbubez6116]

I certainly would not want anything like though pointing at me! In the meantime, I might check out the maths but whichever way, a gun, is a gun, is a gun!@@SomeGuyInSandy

[@Treblaine]

10 grains? It's less than a gram, most electric scales would not record any amount at all.

[@prestongarvey7745]

Just about every time he uses this table I have a slight anxious feeling something small is going to fall through the gaps.

[@FirstDagger]

Thank you, yes that table is driving me nuts.

[@gunman11]

Especially when he spilled some caps !!!

[@forestschultz5740]

No worries. The gaps in the table are a portal to feed the machine gods.

[@kenibnanak5554]

I use a similar table, and yes .22 LRs and shorts sometimes vanish on it. laying a sheet down on it helps, but only until a breeze fluffs or rolls the sheet. However a solid outdoor table doesn't drain rain water or snow melt very well and rot will follow if the water pools.

[@JS-wy6uw]

To be fair, women's muffs were much larger and prominent in the old days.

[@ek8710]

They were certainly fluffier!

[@bingusbadingus9486]

😏😏😏

[@pjhaines6620]

Lol.

[@raghnallmacaodh3220]

Definitely fuller..

[@jaygrizzel4883]

You win the internet.

[@timbaskett6299]

I have airguns that produce more energy, but I would still like to see what a .36cal 11ft lbs of energy look like in ballistics gel. 😂

[@Broken_Yugo]

I was going to suggest something like the meat target, at least give it some leather skin, but I think it may just bounce off.

[@pmrich7035]

@@Broken_Yugo Copper: Miss, how can we identify who attacked you? Lady: Look for the man who is slightly bruised. Clothing then was made of heavier cloth than most articles today

[@STB-jh7od]

Me too.

[@STB-jh7od]

@@pmrich7035 Especially in winter time when muff would be worn.

[@mats7492]

That energy is only double the joule of an Olympic AIR pistol.. That’s incredibly whimpy

[@DeviantOllam]

I'm curious if the oversize ball - while offering more pressure build up - causes more friction and potentially slows muzzle velocity. It'd be interesting to see the various chrono readings with assorted sizes of ball backed up by the same powder volume.

[@mabster314]

I would expect higher velocity with the oversize ball because you're exploiting more of the pressure but who knows

[@jacobstaten2366]

​@@mabster314but just like how a longer barrel means more velocity, eventually there are diminishing returns and even a negative effect.

[@FlymanMS]

“Uh-huhhuh… he said muff. Uh-huhhuh”

[@FiveStringCommando]

Heh heh yeah heh… muff

[@brandonobaza8610]

I grew up in a time when muffs were still a thing. You _have_ to make the joke, it's almost mandatory.

[@SafetyProMalta]

I saw the title and giggled...😂

[@steffanwamsley7575]

​@SafetyProMalta I was thinking....seems like a dangerous place to carry

[@douglasscott3541]

Wouldn't be so funny when "She Suprisingly pulled it out of her Muff and pointed it at a roughian"

[@horriblemonkey3065]

"A Muff Pistol." Hehehehehehe... you said pistol :)

[@wowomatic]

To put this in perspective a paintball is about 3 grams or 46 grains and is typically regulated to 300fps. This translates to 9.2 ft-lbs of muzzle energy.

[@ptonpc]

Thanks.

[@TheInflicted]

Seems like the muzzle energy of these things is roughly equivalent to a modern pepperball launcher shooting the inert rubber rounds.

[@zebradun7407]

BB guns hit 200 fps.

[@moeta486]

​@@zebradun7407In my (limited) knowledge, they go from 100 - near 400-ish FPS. IIRC, a childs Red Ryder goes around 350 - 390 FPS.

[@molochi]

@@zebradun7407 Crossman makes a 22cal pump pistol that shoots a 16gr pellet at about 450fps. That's only like 7fpe, but with sectional energy it's about double the muff gun. Even then you wouldn't want to use it on anything bigger than a rabbit or a prairie chicken.

[@BurningMonkey]

Loads really a lot like an Altor, and yet is no where near as terrifying to load that is weird

[@DB-yj3qc]

With more safety.

[@jukkakopol7355]

In Finland we call Browning 1900 a muff pistol. There was a time when many women and men or even police carry those with them.

[@ThomRoelink]

I read this in a finnish accent

[@DB-yj3qc]

Many police carried them into the 1970s here as backup.

[@richardreynolds1826]

I love the historical content of In Range TV. This kind of stuff is what keeps me tuned in.

[@OptimusSledge]

Love to see this shot side by side with something like a .22LR pocket pistol and a cheap airgun. Not even into ballistics gel, I think a few dollars worth of groceries (soda cans, fruit, etc) would be perfectly adequate to get a basic comparison.

[@mujahidean]

Closely related to the prison pocket revolver

[@devernejones7098]

It's probably important to add to the gun threat the infection effect of any wound. Penicillin was only discovered in 1928, the first sulfa drugs in 1935. Getting a wound that drove clothing into the cavity was far more deadly in 1850 than today. Also, I always seeing this come up at auctions, and watching the auctioneer keep a straight face!

[@chemistryofquestionablequa6252]

Sulfa drugs predate penicillin.

[@ConcealedLiberal]

Curious bird at 2:08 sees a shiny bangstick on the table but can't figure how to load it. It departs in disinterest once it realizes that opposable thumbs are required to operate the firearm.

[@morbidsnake]

B1RD Govt. Drone....

[@peterporkolab]

Screw barrel/turn-off pistols: the importance of the oversized projectile and the tapered barrel bore is that the projectile cannot fall out of the barrel during carry without a wad.

[@davidkuehne476]

Of course, not needing a wad makes a muff pistol much more effective. Well independent anyways.

[@xrysoryba]

I always put a wad in my muff pistol.

[@chrislorusso433]

I'm glad you explained what a muff was in Victorian times. Otherwise I would have assumed you accidentally released an April's Fools Day video 2 weeks early.

[@oneproudbrowncoat]

Huh. I figured anyone who read classic literature as a boy would know.

[@ericarnaud7983]

Pitty the guy who says " that muff pistol is bigger than my muff pistol." 😂😂😂

[@ConcealedLiberal]

Regarding the gun itself... A percussion cap squeeze-bore? Fascinating! And a MIL-PRF-32432A-compliant set of goggles would stand a surprisingly good chance of stopping this particular load: Under that standard, goggles are tested to withstand 2x or 3x hits from a projectile with 17 joules of energy!

[@craighansen7594]

Looks like a single shot barrel on a pepperbox action.

[@SheikOutdoors]

Thanks for showing this cool little gun, I first saw it in the movie "Gangs of New York"

[@fishfingers4548]

I came for the muff, but stayed for the interesting video. On a side note, some people's muffs look like mitts to me... but I 'spose I'm not an Edwardian gentleman; i'm no gentleman at all.

[@fishfingers4548]

correction, Victorian (i'm guessing this is pre 1900s)

[@Jesses001]

I actually saw muffs for sale at Walmart a few months ago. Marketed to hunters. Modern synthetic materials but seemed to work okay. I have seen these before, but I never realized they were designed to swedge the round down like that. Cute little thing. Looks fun to shot. I was still expecting more speed though. Shame no one makes a build kit for these anymore. Would be fun to make.

[@dustywillis79]

Am I the only one that kinda wants to see this on some ballistics gel? LoL

[@dougroberts8647]

You could probably just pluck the ball off of the front of the gel block.

[@gunman11]

Thanks man, anouther educational vidio. Ive been into guns for 55 years, never get tired of learning.

[@SpaceFrawg]

I wonder what effect this would have on ballistics gel or a cut of beef roast... how much penetration?

[@svtirefire]

It'll penetrate 4 thin slices of roast beef

[@CNYKnifeNut]

​@@svtirefire For when the cheese isn't Swiss enough.

[@christophernemeth421]

Given the state of medical knowledge back then any gunshot wound could be deadly, even from a weak firearm like this one.

[@wurfyy]

Just not quickly enough to help the user of this pistol.

[@christophernemeth421]

@@wurfyy I would think that idea would make attackers think twice when a gun is drawn on them

[@wurfyy]

@@christophernemeth421 Oh, for sure. Especially since one would imagine that more powerful models existed, and you couldn't necessarily tell just by looking down the barrel. That being said, mutually assured destruction isn't the self defense concept I'd like to use if I could help it.

[@artofshootinginmotion2871]

So Green in Arizona! It's always amazes me ho it changes.

[@chemistrykrang8065]

This is definitely on the extremely wimpy end of things... but I will caution that it isn't really comparable to a UK legal air rifle (12 ft lb limit without a license). A .177 8.4 grain pellet doing 700 ft/sec will stop a lot quicker and make a much narrower wound than a slower .36 calibre lead ball with the same energy. If I had to choose I'd much rather get shot with the air gun pellet than this muff pistol!

[@john-doe-I]

Some european countries have way stricter energy limitations (7,5J for example), because despite how anemic 15J sounds, I think it still can get quite the penetration, for example in the tummy of the ruffian, shot point blank.

[@ejomatic7480]

My grandmother on my dad's side used to carry a small revolver in her muff while waiting with my dad and his siblings in line for meat rations during WW2.

[@scottshaw2143]

NFL quarterbacks use muffs.

[@thecodemachine]

They use something else to keep their hands warm.

[@scottshaw2143]

I am not even going to imagine what that might be.

[@aac7183]

Good video Karl 👍🏼

[@Longshot88]

I can't believe it has a lower muzzle energy than the black powder NAA mini revolvers. I was shocked at 11 FPE with a .40 cal suaged round ball.

[@terryschiller2625]

Interesting Karl. That screw on barrel must have kind of been revolutionary back then. Thanks for sharing Sir

[@tylerandersenandthegang]

The ole "muzzle loading muff blaster"... That's literally what I used to call my ex...

[@VS-ff4ez]

Great video (as usual).

[@InrangeTv]

Thanks!

[@antonioadinolfi4052]

Thanks Karl, I really like this type of content. Not everything is combat or tactical 😊

[@antiochman8222]

The concept is good. In particular the intuitive loading - self regulating powder charge with self seating projectile. Heavy double action trigger providing a modicum of safety. I wonder if they didn’t consider making one with a little more oomph. It would only have required a larger powder chamber.

[@tempestbloke]

@InRange - Karl, that's a revolutionary fashion sense you have, must be liberating. Your shirt is simply to die for.

[@jon.revelator6313]

Everyone: wow, what a cute antiquated piece of history. Altor: Yes, but plastic.

[@simonwaldock9689]

Thank you, another interesting little piece of history

[@InrangeTv]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@ChristianWDegn]

Fascinating example... Thank you.

[@wowlodarczyk]

I'm surprised with so small energy. I own modern version of this thing, called 'derringer liegi' (by Pedersoli), and tested by youtube-rangers it produce 85J of energy which is definitely lethal. Without any sights you can hit man-chest-sized target on 10m(y) max distance anyway. It takes the same 9-10gn of propellent, as original, when charged directly to chamber.

[@S7eveThePira7e]

Ngl, I'm not mature enough not to giggle every time Karl says muff

[@Stray03]

I have one of the pepperboxes, does yours use no.11 caps also? mine seems to need 12 or 13, which I don't think are made anymore.

[@jonathandalton2921]

interesting firearm , thanks karl

[@jefferythomas4414]

Being I'm a Muff diver, I arm myself with the Muff pistol. Never know if Mr. Muff should return early.

[@frankbrowning328]

Cool video! I like these old CC guns. I think all of us guys have a concealed carry muff pistol and none of them come with sites.

[@stevep7346]

Sights aren't necessary at contact distance.

[@samirish6696]

The little slug is going slow enough to be allowable on a paintball field! I wonder if the oversized ball would easily get stuck if the charge wasn't as full as possible?

[@Tammy-un3ql]

interesting video.

[@bbqsauce8854]

Keep the Black Powder videos rolling out sir 🫡

[@kenibnanak5554]

Experience says that sometimes on those old guns without an external maker's mark, maker initials are sometimes found stamped into the grip frame under the grip panels. I would hope that .40 caliber ball was not hard cast. It might not be much fun to shoot if the ball didn't easily swage. But I do understand the utility of a tapered bore. If you can't guarantee your mold is .36 exactly, having a gun that will also accept a .38 is handy. I am amazed at how low the velocity you got was. I get almost twice that velocity with my .380 & .44 bulldog revolvers with a much heavier projectile and a similar (identical) load of 10 gr of FFF. 600 FPS is considered by many to be the minimum for a potentially lethal wound. I don';t understand why the velocity of yours is so low.. ???

[@raphlvlogs271]

this 1 can be converted in to a cane gun as well if you make the barrow much longer

[@williamflowers9435]

Ironically, every college and NFL Quarterback wears a muff (hand warmer), just w/o the fur and “muff” is the term for a returner dropping a punt. It’ll be interesting to see how the language evolves a century from now.

[@analogludite9575]

Mom always said, "Be Careful!! You could put someone's eye out with that!!" 😮😮😅

[@mattliebenau9083]

Interesting vid Carl. I appreciate your fortitude, I’m not sure I could have gotten through it with a straight face.

[@williamebeling5073]

Lest we forget the Big Muff in the discussion of all things muff

[@the-onion-of-failure]

interesting stuff on that muff.

[@sorino2817]

Very cool

[@ArcanisUrriah]

Interesting wee gun. Thank you for sharing it with us. I have 2 questions. Does the secure seating/squeezebore reduce fouling significantly? And how sensitive are percussion caps? It looks like a knock at the wrong angle could set this pistol off, but I have zero actual experience of percussion caps, only theoretical, so have no idea of the actual risks.

[@JohnTBlock]

Of course, a Lady's hand muff could conceal a pepperbox, or a small revolver as well, when those were available...

[@MayumiC-chan9377]

Okay you know what these makes my day 😂

[@kavemanthewoodbutcher]

Well, i want one. Along with a muff for next winter!

[@derweibhai]

Gel test would be interesting with clothing barrier.

[@HauptstadtLiebe]

0:56 not gonna lie, he had us in the first half

[@pavelmorozov6599]

This energy is what you get on those single shot pneumatic airguns

[@lets_fish_already_9345]

I know theres tons of ballistic gel tests but I'd absolutely love to see this tested.

[@joshuasutherland6692]

Awesome lil vid for a weird lil gun.

[@mrwhobodiggz]

She was packing a box lock before I pulled my smooth bore muff pistol!

[@aotoda486]

0:10 literally just learned there were other definitions than earmuff muff

[@hgiudful]

I have an Ethan Allen Screw barrel pistol, barlock from 1837 .36 cal. muzzleloader., rifled, Subject of Ethan Allen’s patent #461. I never shot it because I figured it's old and tired and could use a nice retirement. But it does point well and is a true double action single shot pistol

[@peterskallarp]

Hello Mr Muff-guy ! I love this video . . I got my Muffgun some days ago, but the barrel wont come off so I shoot it like a muzzleloader ! I put in 30 grains of Blackpowder and then the bullit .36 .. it works jut fine so now I want you to do i video with 40 gr of powder and its a real kick, and no damage to the pistol were made. Try it , , , you like it and I`m waiting for the video . . I hope you make it ! . its made in Arizona i think . . . my favotrite-state in all of The USA ! Do you know why ? Offcourse not . . in te sixties there were a TV-Western called "The High Chaparral".on tv here in Sweden and me and all the boys just loved it . . I still love Arizona, but I`m to old now, Have you ever been too the "Old Tucson" town ? I wish i could see it some day,.Have a lovely day wishs Peter from a cold Sweden !

[@berryreading4809]

Honestly that's a pretty excellent minimalist design for the time period... now powder measure, easy projectile loading without a patch or ramrod... no hammer to cock... Add some interrupted threads, a flip down lever on the barrel and it could actually be reloaded fairly quickly 🤔 But that also isn't the point of this design, and low cost compared to what would require better steel to really handle a more adequate powder load and partial threads... But I guess those ideas mostly made it into atleast a couple of rifle designs/concepts, which also didn't go far... I'm not a very good firearms designer apparently 😄👍

[@dryciderz]

Muff diving just got slightly more dangerous

[@jimmyrustler8983]

"No job too tough, no muff too rough..." If you had a particularly big muff, you could have more than one muff pistol in there for a rather underwhelming New York reload.

[@kenwheeler3637]

Very interesting. I've never seen a single barrel pistol with that type of hammer.

[@aidanfarnan4683]

very interesting that it's a squeeze-bore. Cool little historical peice.

[@jg-ub4ek]

Neat!!

[@generalcarlgustavfleischer368]

"Uncle junior is in the muff."

[@Georgewilliamherbert]

I would like to see a gel test…

[@sleepingbee8997]

No witty comment here, I just think this is neat!

[@mountainbearoutdoors]

I came for the comments, I was not disappointed.

[@lon242]

I want to learn the great American art of muff diving

[@Enraged-Gecko]

The utter lack of sights, anemic ballistics and virtually non-existent ability for repeatable fire makes it a dubious choice for a self-defense pistol, but it beats screaming for help. A gunshot will grab attention well outside of screaming distance and a woman that’s ostensibly unarmed is going to deploy the muff pistol against her assailant at spitting distance.

[@hrungnir123]

They’re also known as boot pistols and they were fairly popular with soldiers during the Civil War as a cheap last line of defense. Allen and Thurber made a ton of them.

[@joesephkingston1621]

Other than the cap installation, I really appreciate the simplicity of the loading process. I see how this could appeal to a novice demographic buying this as their one and only pistol.

[@christophernemeth421]

Historically muffs were always deadly

[@STB-jh7od]

Curious-is the use of larger caliber ball, to keep the ball in the firearm as I don't see a wax/paper wad/seal to keep the ball in place? Or am I missing something?

[@joenull5945]

Modern day comparison... The Byrna LE less lethal launcher shoots a .68 caliber 3 gram rubber ball at 330 FPS, which gives it 11.37 ft/lbs of muzzle energy. The Byrna less lethal launcher is being marketed/sold in California as a self defense tool, since it is legal to conceal carry (no permit required) and it is legal for prohibited persons (undocumented immigrants, etc) to own/possess/use. Edit. Pepperballs are illegal in California, so the less lethal launchers being sold in CA only come with impact rounds (rubber or plastic). Metal rounds (ball bearings) can also be used and are not prohibited by CA laws.

[@FrankDouglas]

Two things to consider about the lack of power of this gun. The first being that it very well could be sold to women who are otherwise scared of guns And as far as how effective it is remember what kind of medical treatment you would be getting for it. The treatment the doctor would treat you with could just as easily kill you

[@tomhenry897]

Looks like the single shot pistol you and Ann did a show on

[@robertunderdunkterwilliger2290]

Is it safe to carry with the hammer on the cap though? Should be interesting to see a gel test, comparing it to a .22 air rifle of similar power!

[@siestatime4638]

I'm a little surprised KZbin has (so far) allowed that title.

[@molochi]

Black powder and its modern analog, burns slow and with limited oomph. By comparison 250 fps is like sling bullet velocity but that would use a much heavier bullet to be effective.

[@jimmyrustler8983]

I've found some ancient lead sling rounds, and they're BIG! Wouldn't want one of those hurled at me....

[@ET_AYY_LMAO]

11ft/lb thats below the limit for what is considered a legal air pistol in the UK lol.

[@hubertanicusbellschnikel9416]

That be 6ft/lb in a pistol.

[@peteg22397]

12 for a rifle, 6 for a pistol

[@stevep7346]

Biggest problem with muff pistols is keeping the powder dry.

[@edshelden7590]

This is a great story About how often would be lady with the muff have to take the barrel off, clean out the gun & reload?

[@kleinerprinz99]

What pistol would you suggest which packs a bigger punch but is still small enough to be carried in a muff?

[@elektro3000]

I love the squeeze bore design, but it seems like a wasted opportunity for a rifled "muzzle" loader that doesn't involve cramming the bullet backwards through the rifling. Polygonal (proto-Metford) rifling might work best here. Of course, unless they made the chamber deeper to hold more than 9 grains of powder...rifling isn't worth much at 250 feet per second.

[@williamflowers9435]

I’d rather carry this than an Altor… but I guess you’ve found something the S333 Thunderstruck can beat