MultiVersus Just Made A Very Worrying Change.

Рет қаралды 59,554

Ай бұрын

The MultiVersus Patch was pretty good for the most part, and I'm liking having a platform fighter that plays very differently than Super Smash Bros. or Rivals of Aether, but there's one change they just made that has me concerned.

Пікірлер: 131

@MockRockTalk Ай бұрын

To be clear: overall, I actually like MultiVersus, and have been having a lot of fun with it. But...man, cooldowns are such a lame way to balance characters lol, I'm not happy to see the devs going back on their philosophy. By all means nerf Wonder Woman, I couldn't care less about playing a top tier, but this is literally the worst way possible I can think of to do it.

@silverpotato4272 Ай бұрын

MockRock, unrelated to Multiversus but I'm curious if you've seen Sakurai's video on Smash's balence. I think it's a really interesting take but wonder if character design and balance are really that deeply connected. I've love to hear your thoughts as someone with much more experience then me.

@MockRockTalk Ай бұрын

@@silverpotato4272 I've seen it, yes, may give more organized thoughts on it at some point but not something I'd just wanna slap together in a comment haha

@ivrydice0954 Ай бұрын

Meanwhile Steven out here with 5 cooldowns (All of his specials except aerial down-b, nair dodge bubble) All my homies miss Coffeezilla

@silverpotato4272 Ай бұрын

@MockRockTalk would love to see a MRT vid on it

@TheRealBatabii Ай бұрын

I hate how much cooldown management this game has. It feels unjustified when multiple moves can have 10 seconds or more of cooldown, and for a new player some of the icons are hard to recognize

@ethantsai8261 Ай бұрын

I think that speaks to a bigger design philosophy issue where in they seem to want the game to be casual or new player friendly but constantly make changes that are UNINTUITIVE

@bigbass4006 Ай бұрын

must suck

@aawake Ай бұрын

That really doesn’t happen often at all especially in the new launch, unless you’re playing like Marvin or something

@TheRealBatabii Ай бұрын

@@aawake every character has like 4 cooldown gauges...and some attacks literally do NOTHING AT ALL during cooldown. Not even a different attack.

@bombyte_ Ай бұрын

if you play a character enoigh you'll know if the cooldown is ready or not without even looking at it. i have no problems playing tom & jerry and marvin

@flywatt6895 Ай бұрын

Rick loses two of his four specials to cooldowns and his Uair is weaker off cooldown too

@collinharper6187 Ай бұрын

I’m a firm believer in the idea that any move with a cool down should have an off cool down version, it’s one reason I love Garnet so much (even though her CD’s are a little too fast on relaunch and it’s taking a lot to get used to)

@squedlly Ай бұрын

Ooh, fr wonder woman, a cool-dwn version where she uses the lasso as a whip at shorter range, so it doesn't have the movement option.

@luminary6818 Ай бұрын

I’m so pissed that my main WW that was available for free in the Beta is locked behind fighter currency now.

@jmurray1110 Ай бұрын

Yeah that wasn’t great you only get like 2 characters now

@jmurray1110 Ай бұрын

Wait did you make a new account becatse you should still have her if you played the beta Well if you played the tutorial

@luminary6818 Ай бұрын

@@jmurray1110 No, this is the same WB and Xbox account as the beta

@jmurray1110 Ай бұрын

That doesn’t make sense Maybe you had to complete the entire tutorial It worked for me so I fail to see how yours couldn’t work Well unless it’s an Xbox thing that console is really unreliable with this game

@cam3127 Ай бұрын

@@jmurray1110 Some accounts, like mine, had a bug or glitch where despite being synced from the beta, we actually lost a lot of progress. I managed to keep my skins and badges, but when I booted up the game only had 6 characters from the beta unlocked.

@robbierotten2024 Ай бұрын

And then there’s Marvin, who is an essentially a walking cooldown lol. And it works very well for him, I think cooldowns was a very interesting way to balance Marvin’s kit and make a very unique fighter. I also think a cooldown could be fine for WW lasso (completely disregarding Marvin, the two characters couldn’t be any different), but 8 seconds is a lot. The lasso itself was just a very oppressive tool to have to account for every second of the game, so a cooldown isn’t a crazy change. 8 seconds maybe too much. Maybe give it multiple charges? But in general, balancing oppressive tools around cooldowns seems fine depending on the character.

@Errr_-kc1lv Ай бұрын

I like the cooldown but when a move is in cooldown there should be another move that is simular but weaker.

@dougtheghoul2845 Ай бұрын

Yeah. I love Black Adam as full release removed some of his cooldowns making him more fun. Add those cooldowns back, we're going to have a problem as he'll be less fun to play

@jmurray1110 Ай бұрын

Oh yeah I dropped the bets Easter due to the internment connection at the time but black Adam is so fun I don’t understand why his dude special has a resource limit though down B makes sense and still has a hit box but side special really Still at least he had one of if not the best recoveries in the game

@frank8917 Ай бұрын

I mean, the only cooldown he has right now is its protection of Shu. You know, the anti projectile thing that wo4mrks agaist everythin except Jerry for some reason

@swift7842 Ай бұрын

@@frank8917his side B also has a cooldown :/

@jmurray1110 Ай бұрын

Yeah though I personally think the change ti Labron is far worse since they just gutted his ability to trap with his ball

@a_person172 Ай бұрын

As a LeBron main that plays this game seriously, it was such a stupid nerf that only happened bc random little shits on twitter started doing these unrealistic zero to deaths and complained about it, and now the characters most expressive attribute is kinda gone. What’s funny is that half the people who complained play fucking WW or Bugs

@a_little_flame589 Ай бұрын

@@a_person172 twitter is honestly the biggest enemy of game design

@sanguinesampp7754 Ай бұрын

@@a_person172 If they were gonna remove multi hit on the ball, they could've at least gave us back the downward hitbox in the air on the dunk from the beta, he just feels awful in every way now.

@battmall9785 Ай бұрын

Yeah I figured it was a feature that they intended to let people trap with his ball because they took away the hitbox with his side special and the ability to quickly cancel with it, it used to be a fun spike and a cool combo extender. I figured the multiple hits from his ball was a way to make him more interesting, but then they got rid of it first patch which leads me to think they never play tested him at all. Really bad optics to launch with mechanics and then nerf characters to the ground. Gizmo my other main just got gutted as well and they didn't bother fixing his car glitch that makes him not able to jump or dodge for the rest of the game. A lot of the game just seems like I should wait a few months before I even start playing just so I dont keep disappointing myself. What is the point of learning a character and taking the time to learn a combo, tech, or setup if its just going to be gutted the next patch.

@creativeandfunnyname3744 Ай бұрын

This shit is the worst. I play Morty. Half of his normals have cool downs, and do almost nothing after 1 use. Can I have a real uptilt? Please?

@Fur_Crumbs_Channel Ай бұрын

Im a Morty main aswell and upload videos on him. Im trying to get him noticed by the Devs bc yea he has no kill power at all and he has no burst attacks. Its sad af when a shaggy or joker runs up to me and up tilts me at like 70+ and kills me. Its fine tho bc im a Beta Morty and got 800+ hours of experience on him.

@Fur_Crumbs_Channel Ай бұрын

@jonnnn7699 Its the kill power rn especially on Recommended characters. They absolutely can steal your stock at 20+ stamina at the very top of the screen bc of their insane influence on attacks. Shaggy, Joker and Wonderwoman all have absurd vertical kill power and 2 of them are recommended so they have higher priority when you fight them.

@Bendan Ай бұрын

I like the comic book style font choice, but it just makes me think of lythero whenever i see it lol

@Nokyyyyy Ай бұрын

Let's not talk about the microtransactions management...

@SuperSlash86 26 күн бұрын

You have a problem with people spending money? I will have Smith on release with zero pennies spent. But I don’t expect everyone to have the gems to grind it out. People want to spend their hard earned cash on a free game that’s their business. How does it effect you?

@jammyweegit1144 Ай бұрын

On the bright side she's still the strongest character in the game by a long shot so I guess you can't complain

@jmurray1110 Ай бұрын

Well except for tge part where they gutted a great fun movement option as a knee jerk reaction instead of actually looking at her kit and determining what the actual issues are

@YeoYolo Ай бұрын

She needed it dude😂 no need for lasso spam for half free hits. It's a very good ability. She's already one of the best well-rounded characters in the game. NEEDED

@fuchilen Ай бұрын

I never had a problem with her lasso but her insane amount of armor sucks. Someone one said on discord which I fully agree on is instead of the lasso it should be the shield's armor or have it require being fully charged for armor. After that she'd be absolutely fine with me. The lasso cool down was a mistake in my eyes 100%

@jmurray1110 Ай бұрын

Sounds good but it can be cheesed An untethered berry can apparently fill it in less than a second if you hold side special

@Lylybeebee Ай бұрын

i’ve been learning marvin and what i’ve found is that he DID NOT get the cooldown reduction treatment. all he got was a second ammo on one of his cooldowns. He’s already such a finicky character to play and while I love him, i find it so weird how much he relies on cooldowns even in 2024. Yeah i feel like some of his moves need the cooldown, like his nattack which would be too oppressive without its brief cooldown, but there are other moves of his like his g. sideb and neutral b that could’ve easily lost a cooldown all together OH and my main in the beta, Steven, didn’t lose a cooldown but instead got one of his abilities put ONTO a cooldown (it’s fine though it’s actually a buff in some ways)

@videogamer678 Ай бұрын

Second ammo? What move is that?

@Lylybeebee Ай бұрын

@@videogamer678 On his N Special Projectile switch? It has two charges now? Unless it already had those in the beta then my point goes even further

@Goopyguts Ай бұрын

I'm a jason main, and somehow I haven't lost a match at all, so I hope they don't add a cool down on any of his moves

@jmurray1110 Ай бұрын

Watch them kill his teleport

@Goopyguts Ай бұрын

@@jmurray1110 that's basicly how he recovers

@elkarlo1593 22 күн бұрын

He has a cooldown for his grounded neutral special that gives him Gray health super armour, I always forget about it because I barely use that move because I'm not that good of a player

@azzyhaven2204 Ай бұрын

Honestly i much preferred the beta for many reasons, the forced creativity was one of them, particularly strong moves had a cooldown, and if you spammed the same move over and over it would do less damage and knockback. Im very disappointed that those were removed

@thelaxman8053 Ай бұрын

Morty has all his moves still on time😢

@Virulence-xb2rv Ай бұрын

some of y'all literally use earth like your life depends on our

@thelaxman8053 Ай бұрын

@Virulence-xb2rv ya because everything else is on timer so it is the resource our life can depend on

@Virulence-xb2rv Ай бұрын

@@thelaxman8053 i could be 3 business days offstage and y'all still spam earth like it's going to do anything even if you have no cooldowns. give that move a cooldown too 💀

@thelaxman8053 Ай бұрын

@Virulence-xb2rv ok then what are we going to use, if you took bomb off cooldown then we wouldnt use it sp much plus it is like one of our two only confirms

@GumshoeClassic Ай бұрын

I just wonder... _why?_ Not just "why make this change" but why even implement cooldowns in the first place? Did they try to take a swing at Granblue's formula? The cooldown system was already contentious in GBFVS/GBFVSR and those are slower-paced 2D fighters with heavier emphasis on neutral and footsies. Cooldowns as a mechanic feel like the antithesis to what platform fighters want to be, at least in my opinion.

@MegaStunfiskandHat Ай бұрын

Moves should have to charge instead of having a cool down in games like this. DKs Giant punch and samus charge shot have worked like that since the first platform fighter ever and it just makes more sense in this environment

@MrToxic750 Ай бұрын

The lazo was way too oppressive don't even get me started on the armor

@worldscoolestperson7672 Ай бұрын

Cooldowns are the absolute laziest way to balance something. Least fun, too.

@mattgroening8872 Ай бұрын

A cooldown on a move in a fighting game is insane

@elkarlo1593 22 күн бұрын

I think some cooldowns are okay, if they don't just remove your ability to do anything, like with Garnet's gauntlets for example, when they are on cooldown you can still attack by charging into the opponent, that significantly improves the concept of a cooldown itself I remember beta batman being so infuriating because the batarang move didn't do anything in cooldown and with the extreme speed the game had back then it was so easy to try to punch someone just to call onto the batarang while it wasn't ready and eat dirt because you're stuck doing nothing It's sadly still a very prominent feature of most cooldowns, that is sad

@swifttitan8126 Ай бұрын

i hear you but ngl i much perfer the cool down on the lasso as a WW main, not only because it was kinda op causing loops, but also the timing was weird to me , i stopped using it cause it didn't feel right, without the cooldown. i will say the cooldown should be based on the perk, hephistus should be on a shorter cooldown, and hermes should be longer because it's movement

@WhyYouWahYoo Ай бұрын

the teams approach to balance overall is really disheartening to be honest. They are either way too willing to fundamentally change characters (velma) or way to stingy with the changes (Banana Guard) and the only time the can muster a solid middle ground is by lazily slapping a cooldown on. not a fan

@ivymoon5084 Ай бұрын

Banana guard is fine..?

@juanb2363 Ай бұрын

I feel that it is a movement that, by design, makes absolutely no sense to put a cooldown on it The way you use it is not something made to wait 8 seconds between uses, either offensively or to get around The character is still fun but it greatly damages her gameplay that she no longer has such a good remote tool at her disposal all the time. As you say, better to put a greater lag at the beginning, give it less range or nerf other aspects that make the lasso dangerous But don't restrict its use with a cooldown, it's stupid

@TyreseGui Ай бұрын

Wonder Woman main here, the cooldown was needed. It was very easy to latter the enemies, with insane range. You would pull them in and up special.

@tjknight Ай бұрын

It's not even that oppressive of a tool in comparison to the rest of her kit, at least when it didn't grab anyone before because 🤷 you could try again when another opportunity presented itself, but now with cool down you'll probably just be throwing it out 4-5 times but actually utilizing it once or twice

@theyo9619 Ай бұрын

I was prepared to be a little upset that you were complaining about ww nerfs but then I heard what you were saying and you made great points. Sure maybe it was a nerf but more than anything it just made her less fun.

@tauvolantian398 Ай бұрын

I feel like she needed an armor nerf instead

@michaelmyers3507 Ай бұрын

Dont tell bro about Morty lmaoo. They didnt change sh*t for the full release

@Fur_Crumbs_Channel Ай бұрын

EXACTLY! Morty is busted rn he doesnt work currently. I constantly post videos about him while playing. I NEED the Devs to notice him and its seriously PATHETIC that they didnt even touch Morty in the recent patch like omg.

@TrueBruceTube Ай бұрын

It would be fine for me (I mainly play in the lab) but I think they removed instant cooldowns.

@Lucrei. Ай бұрын

As a WW player l wholeheartedly agree

@his_purpose3 Ай бұрын

Time to take the game offline and work on it for another year again lol

@theoverseer393 Ай бұрын

Definitely feels like a ducktape fix, I hope after they fix iron giant they focus on being a bit more thorough with her balancing without making her unplayable

@AweDude77 Ай бұрын

As a Wonder Woman main myself and after talking with others in the wwcord this was definitely more of a kneejerk nerf than a well thoght out change. It ruins the mobility aspect of the grapple and ironically makes the whip perk more viable by reducing the combo ability of lasso. I expect harsher nerfs coming when ranked launches and they can actually get some data, probably starting with air side b and nairloops being nerfed

@user-bh1nd9by4v Ай бұрын

This is the main reason I play Finn and Banana guard they both have little to no cooldown moves so combos don’t stop working after the first use Also funny and stupid fact in the beta Finn had a cooldown on his neutral air of all things

@ChilaAuroraVT Ай бұрын

Or if youre adding a cooldown, thats wayyy to long of a cooldown

@CrashTestThumby Ай бұрын

I feel like we have a lot of other problems with WB than just the cooldowns...

@eliyomama 27 күн бұрын

Stevens bubble got nerfed... I didn't really understand why... Hes a support, (or was in the beta, support class is gone now) so why take away one of the best support moves in the game?? What are they gonna do next, remove reindog completely??? Most of his moves are literally support.

@otaking3582 Ай бұрын

Either every Special has a cooldown, or none of them do. The best way to balance gameplay is by making all the characters OP.

@sersmiles1635 Ай бұрын

cooldowns needed

@omegastrike8812 Ай бұрын

I get wanting cooldowns, but this is the most boring way to present a cooldown. In smash, k rool has a cooldown for his crown if lost, so it causes a change in look, allowing for the cooldown to make sense, change how yhe character looks, and punish for improper crown usage. A greyed out box that fills up is so boring and mobile game style of design

@madestmadhatter Ай бұрын

Laso is so easy to miss top, I've had enemies just walk through it

@beegbeeg507 Ай бұрын

WHAAAAAAT?!!!!

@carsonreyes9631 Ай бұрын

I mean that dknt want to meef any kf the power the mobe has but when a muktole winderman are playing her like a zoner and not even using combos or her armor. Fishing for a hit confirm with laso into up attack 20 times in a row is in fact not cool.

@Idoitsgaming Ай бұрын

At least they didn't nerf fin I think

@backwooddagn6888 Ай бұрын

I have no idea why they are balancing for 2v2s. They should have individual balancing depending on where it's a 1v1 or a 2v2

@Imamobile 29 күн бұрын

I drink Wonder Woman players tears

@shazampool529 Ай бұрын

I still feel like attack decay should have stayed in the game without it spammers can win by just using the same move and the game doesn’t tell them that that’s not how you play

@notjerr983 Ай бұрын

They should've made it like Wario waft or something

@futurewario9591 Ай бұрын

Nickelodeon All Star Brawl 2 is better

@bunnythehutt2148 Ай бұрын

Ww def needed nerfs, but this nerf doesnt change any of the oppressive shit she has, they just made players spam them more often.

@chasestanek430 Ай бұрын

They killed Velma, made her less fun, and “fixed” her gimmick by changing it but it’s still useless.

@sohrtresort20 Ай бұрын

Womp womp

@LinJer. Ай бұрын

I'm disappointed in Multiversus. I played alot of the beta and got really good at it, only for it to go away for almost a year and then coming back with very few good changes. And they absolutely butchered my main, Morty. He's a shell of his former self, and it's made me lose almost all interest in the game

@SILVRXIII Ай бұрын

Or here’s a thought don’t support this game

@camdenzeigler6954 29 күн бұрын

They should buff other characters instead of nerfing

@sethbarley3884 Ай бұрын

I think cool down management is an important skill. Your moves are a resource and I think it sometimes(not all the times) managing your move set and rotating cooldowns adds an extra element to improve upon. Keeps people from just throwing the busted move at all the time.

@sethbarley3884 Ай бұрын

Makes it too that you still get to do those strong set ups but if you miss then you get punished with cooldown.

@a_little_flame589 Ай бұрын

cool down management is a great skill in like a moba where it's all about the mental game in a platform fighter where there's always meant to be action all it does is encourage camping and make you feel like you get to play the game less it's a bad change

@RamikinHorde Ай бұрын

@@a_little_flame589I'd draw the distinction differently - cd management works better in games with a greater focus on strategy, especially team based strategy. Overwatch for example is an action heavy game, but CD management still works there

@nejchrovat2685 Ай бұрын

Lol. One cooldown XD. I main marvin and I can manage 4 cooldowns.

@----x----- Ай бұрын

Cooldowns are awesome, many of the best games ever had them. They let a mechanic be strong without caveats only limited by its use. I wish smash had some.