Must We Believe in the Trinity?

[@johnchauke7492]

The person of God is our Father who lives in all Children including Jesus Christ.

[@billschlegel1]

I think your statement is key for understanding the Gospel of John. As Jesus and the author of the book state, the God "in" Jesus is the Father. Not in some way of some same essence. But like Peter said in Acts 2:22: "Jesus, a man attested to you by God through the mighty works that God did through him".

[@johnchauke7492]

@@billschlegel1 Amen!

[@lizzard13666]

@@johnchauke7492 Jesus even tells us that he is the Temple in which God dwells! John 2:21 (ESV) But he was speaking about the temple of his body. This fulfills the Tanakh sayings about Yahweh dwelling in a Temple that isn't built by human hands, built by stones not cut by human hands ... 1 Peter 2:4-5 (ESV) 4 As you come to him, a living stone rejected by men but in the sight of God chosen and precious, 5 you yourselves like living stones are being built up as a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. Jesus is the first "stone" in God's house, we are the next stones! 1 Corinthians 3:16 (ESV) Do you not know that you are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in you? So many passages tell us that Jesus, and then us, are the Temple in which God actually dwells!

[@SonOfGodByNewBirthInChrist]

Amen. I think Jesus addressed this issue. Matthew 15:7-9 You hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy of you, when he said: “‘This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me; in vain do they worship me, *teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’”*

[@claudiozanella256]

Of course God is not a three persons being, NOWHERE in the scriptures! A doctrine invented from scratch starting from three divine NAMES that do NOT map onto three persons. A full nonsense, when will this nonsense get to an end? The only strategy is denying, denying, denying, denying...

[@baderel-safadi6603]

You are saying the truth but people like to cling on what they want or are raised to believe in. Imagine God Almighty would confuse people and send them different religions but people make their own religion and then they believe this lie.

[@JacobSilverdal]

Amen brother 🙌

[@stevencox8579]

Nice to see an Amen to Bill presenting like this.

[@shibakim]

That's why God's people who are caught in that lie must come out from as it's written in Rev. 18:4

[@Eclectifying]

Amen

[@strang1124]

AMEN

[@protector9513]

Every single church father affirmed the Trinity and every single mainstream demonation affirms the doctrine of the Trinity. There are multiple passages where that show Jesus is God such as John 1:1-4. John 10:30-33, John 8:58, Mathew 13:33, Titus 2:13, ect. The doctrine of the Trinity is found every where in the Bible and I pray that you repent of your sins and accept Christ as Lord. God bless.

[@billschlegel1]

Hi. Thanks for responding. Do you see any place in the Bible where a prophet, Jesus or an apostle describes that God is three persons in one being? Thanks for the prayers. I do believe that Jesus is Lord, and that God raised him from the dead (1 Cor. 6:14, Romans 10:9).

[@MarioMontes-uk5eu]

Satan Blinds his world, but the Truth cannot be understood.

[@arthursmom]

I think the concept of the Trinity was to get around the issue of worshipping Jesus would be considered polytheistic as there is to be only one God worshipped. This trinity concept is truly mental gymnastics to form one entity for sure

[@arthursmom]

I don’t believe Jesus even claimed to be God

[@jesusrosary9067]

You can get the correct answer from the church Jesus founded

[@jonathansmiddy7224]

The word 'trinity' appears nowhere in the Bible; the concept was finalized at the First Council of Nicaea in 325 CE after years of debate. It was an attempt to articulate Christianity's belief in the oneness of God with their claims about Jesus and their experiences of the spirit.

[@vincenzoaponte9235]

Bible teaches very clearly that our Lord Jesus is the way.

[@animatednostalgia5034]

Jesus is the way to God the Father. Everything always points back to the Father.

[@baderel-safadi6603]

Yes he is the way to God but Jesus is not god😮

[@FollowPaul1Lord1God]

@vincenzoaponte9235 Amen. Jesus is the way the truth the life N👌T The destination!

[@vincenzoaponte9235]

@baderel-safadi6603 jesus is God in human form Jesus came to experience our pain in life and temptation, conquer them and die so that if we follow him and repent we may have a chance to see almighty GOD remember Jesus said he was GOD.

[@animatednostalgia5034]

@@vincenzoaponte9235 Jesus never said he was God, you're a liar.

[@jjmthree]

I have a feeling that you dont take the old testimonials very seriously, im not trying to assume. Is the true? I am an Orthodox Christian, this is why I ask.

[@barrythomas9571]

I wonder how important this is going to be when we stand before God, it seems to me that there are many over elaborated verses/chapters that believers and speakers alike have latched onto, lyrics from a famous hymn runs like this 'God in three persons blessed trinity' been singing it for years. Surely the dna of the Godhead is three persons, much like I share the dna of my parents, does not God the Father, Jesus the Son and the paraclete, Holy Spirit share dna, seems not to be the case. There is no trinity then, could it mean trouble for christians on that day when stood before God. Teaching ans studying the word is the key here.

[@ken440]

studying scripture indeed is important. Theology from old songs is very wrong. Adam to Babel/Abraham via flood.... flood, majority were wrong, about 1000yrs. Babel, majority were wrong, 500 to 1000yrs. Abraham to Jesus, 2000yrs. Majority were wrong, they killed their messiah. Jesus to present 2000yrs. At 1500yr mark many claim catholic majority were wrong. Should we trust majority position? I dont think so.

[@barrythomas9571]

Theology from old sings is bad, I know I cannot accept that because it is a generalisation, as would be the case with contemporary Christian music, an old hymn 'And can it be' certainly contains lyrics that praise our God for who and what He is/does (check it for yourself) a contemporary song 'Shout to the Lord will also contain lyrics for the same reason again check it out. The time scales you wrote of, there are christians who will only have a slight understanding of these theology, whilst others will be that to have correct dates is studying God's word correctly, this will be the same for the theological content of hymns. Some will sing them and others will not. 2:15 Tim talks of 'study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needed not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth' That should even must be the aim of all christians. And rightly so, but the dogma that suggests hymns do not have a theological content is unhelpful. 'Amazing grace how sweet the sound that saved a wretch like me' that certainly conveys the graciousness of God's salvation to people covered in sin. I was never any good at maths when I was in school, in fact I hated maths, I could not see its importance in my life, yet this is what I have found Adam as a creation approx 4000 yrs before Christ. Approx 2354 yrs from creation to tower of babel. Abraham to Jesus approx 2 years. This to me seems to be the correct chronological eras. My consideration is this as I wrote previously, when each stands before God, what will be important, eschatology of theology will be, that is, that part of theology concerned with death, judgement and the final destiny of our soul, this the most important theology attached to our human lives, when we are asked what did you do with Jesus, then our reply will that He is Lord and Saviour of my life, that He gave his life as a propitiation for life, He is my advocate, He is the only one and the only way to the Father, by His death and resurrection and because I have repented of my sin, He that bore my sin who knew no sin, I am forgiven, that is His grace and mercy. Before any detractor state 'does that mean that come under ant oldvteaching and preaching, where spurious teachings are spoken of' absolutely not, Paul himself stated that even we who are under grace and therefore free should not take occasion to abuse that freedom as some have done. What then am I saying, simply this in this life we can debate wether this hymn is correct theologically, or some piece of contemporary music deemed the same, we can be concerned with the Biblical chronological events, and what is considered correct or not. Each of us has to ensure that we examine and test every spirit, to find out what lines up, I am saying that somethings will not be important, that is it, we will have eternity to discuss irrelevancies, the souls salvation is more important than any other consideration.

[@eliteguard05]

Jesus is the Word and in the beginning the Word was with God and the Word was God. Im confused are you rage baiting people to click your link?

[@neweyz3396]

WRONG where does it say in the Scriptures that Jesus Christ is the WORD ? Deuteronomy 18:18 & 19 God PUT His WORD ( God is the INVISIBLE Holy Spirit Ghost that has His Words within His invisible Self ) in Christ’s Mouth at His Baptism when the heavens Opened Up and the Holy Spirit descending down from above in Bodily Form like a Dove and Alighted and Remained upon Christ Jesus, Just Like God Promised in Deuteronomy 18:18 & 19 ! Jesus Christ Received the Holy Spirit at His Baptism , God Put His Word In Christ Jesus & Jesus Christ Started His Ministry to Speak & Teach all that His Father & God Commanded Him Perfectly For God was DWELLING in & Through Him Teaching Him As Great Father would ! So Jesus we do not see in John 1:1 Jesus Christ at all we See John was talking about God Only ! No Mention of Jesus Christ at all ! Jesus Plainly told you that the words that He speaks are NOT His OWN but His Father’s who Dwells in Him and that the works He does are NOT His they are His Father’s who Dwells in Him ! Jesus Christ Has a New Name in Revelation He is Now ( CALLED ) The WORD ( OF ) God because He Spoke all that His Father commanded Him PERFECTLY God Anointed Him ! So Being CALED the Word ( OF ) God does NOT Make Him God Amen ! There is ONLY ONE TRUE LORD God The INVISIBLE WORD Manifested in Christ Jesus’s Flesh Working Through His SENT One !

[@billschlegel1]

Hi. People like me are interested to see the God and Jesus Christ presented in the Bible are proclaimed in truth, not some other man-made claim about who God and Jesus are. On John 1, "the beginning", while being an intentional parallel to Genesis, is not the Genesis beginning. It's a new beginning that God brings about through the man Jesus the Christ of Nazareth, who is metaphorically called the Word.

[@dboulos7]

antanaclasis

[@Michael-ho9kr]

@neweyz3396 Jesus is the Son in the GODHEAD (trinity). The Word is also put in place of the Son in the Bible. Look it up. When tempted by the devil Jesus told the devil that the scriptures say to no tempt the Lord thy God. He was talking about himself of course. He is the Alpha and Omega, the First and the Last. The truth is this world wouldn’t have even been created if it wasn’t for Jesus. He is God there is no argument there. Just like how I have the Holy-Ghost living within me. He is God as well! No man could pay the sin debt of the world and live a perfect life. No man can be the Living Lamb of God. Only God can. Jesus is the only begotten. None of us can have such a claim. Jesus is our Savior and Lord. He died and rose again shedding his blood on the cross of Calvary and he even sacrificed the blood he shed up in Heaven as well on the Mercy Seat. It has always been about the Blood! You must believe Jesus died and rose again so your own soul can be washed clean of sin with his Blood. You will also Be baptized in Holy Ghost right when you believe as well. Becoming a born again christian. Read the KJV it is the Word of God. The only one to be authorized by the King! The devil hates that. Pray and hope you believe!

[@jollyrancher521]

In John 1:1 there are two occurrences of the Greek noun "theos" (god). The first theos is preceded by the definite article "ho". When the noun has a definite article, it points to a distinct identity, in this case Almighty God. However, the second "theos", referring to the Word, does not have the definite article. Many scholars agree that the fact that the second theos does not have a definite article means that the word “theos” in this case does not point to the identity of the Word but rather to a characteristic or quality of the Word, that the Word is "divine", "a god", “god-like”, but not the same as “ho theos”. Several modern Bible versions translate the final part of John 1:1 as “the Word was divine,” “the Logos was divine,” “a god was the Word,” or “the Word was a god.”

[@catamazing5631]

1 John: 1 John 5:7-8; 7

[@billschlegel1]

Hi. Are you familiar with the textual issues involved in 1 John 5:7-8? Do you know why it is not found in most English translations? And even so, 1 John 5:7 (KJV English only) does not say that the Father, Word and Holy Ghost are "one being" (the claim of Trinitarianism). Don't you think that if Jesus and the biblical authors required a belief in a three-persons-in-one-being god, they would have stated that over and over?

[@jollyrancher521]

Many scholars believe that the words in this verse "There are Three who give testimony in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost. And these three are one" in the King James Version are an interpolation. These words are not found in any Greek manuscript earlier than the fifteenth century. They do not appear in the Latin Vulgate or any Latin version of the Bible before the ninth century.

[@Fett-bt2rc]

Mathew 28:19

[@billschlegel1]

I believe in the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. But I'm not a trinitarian. The claim of Trinitarianism is that all three are the "same being". But the Bible is clear. The Father is God, and Jesus is a human being, the Son OF the Living God.

[@johnnywatchman777]

In the beginning was the word the word was with god the word was god. Maybe this guy needs to read a bible

[@billschlegel1]

There is no Trinity in John 1. Also, consider that perhaps "the beginning" of John 1:1, while being an intentional parallel to the Genesis beginning, is a different "new" beginning. God brings about a new beginning through the man Jesus of Nazareth, who is metaphorically called the Word. If that sounds interesting, see this link: kzbin.info/www/bejne/jnfZZGaIl9d9nLM

[@dboulos7]

The same can be said about wisdom - maybe you need to start understanding the Bible

[@FollowPaul1Lord1God]

​@@dboulos7 Clement was"Greeted by Paul, in Philippians 4:3". Philippians 4:3 Indeed, true companion, I ask you also, help these women who have shared my struggle in the cause of the gospel, alongside ✔️Clement as well as the rest of my fellow workers, whose names are in the book of life. Clement, was "Apostle Peter's Scribe", and And ran 1st church Rome 30+Years 60-90AD till Martyred. Here's Clement: 1 Clement 59:4. "Let all the Gentiles know that 👉Thou art the God alone, and 🤴🏻Jesus Christ is Thy Son. Clement echos Jesus perfectly as follows: John 17:3 "Now this is eternal life, that they may know You, the 👨🏻‍🦳only true God, 🤴🏻And Jesus Christ, whom You have sent." Irenaeus~ Against Heresies 3.9.1 (180-200AD) The Lord Himself handing down to His disciples, that He, the Father, is the 👨🏻‍🦳only God and Lord, who 👉alone is God and ruler of all… Irenaeus~Against Heresies 3.6.4(180-200AD) Wherefore I do also call upon thee,👉 Lord God of Abraham, and God of Isaac, and God of Jacob and Israel, who art the 🤴🏻Father of our lord Jesus Christ, 👨🏻‍🦳the God who, through the abundance of Thy mercy, hast had a favour towards us, that we should know Thee, Who hast made heaven and earth, who rulest over all, who art the 👉"Only and the True God"👈 above whom there is none other God; Grant, by our 🤴🏻Lord Jesus Christ, the governing power of the Holy Spirit; give to every reader of this book to know Thee, that Thou art 👨‍🦳God alone, to be strengthened in Thee, And to "avoid every heretical, and godless, and impious doctrine".💯💯💯 Justin martyr First Apology 61 [T]here is pronounced over him who chooses to be born again, and has repented of his sins, the name of 👉God the Father and Lord of the universe; he who leads to the laver the person that is to be washed calling him by this name alone, For no one can utter the name of the👨🏻‍🦳 ineffable God… And in the name of 🤴🏻Jesus Christ, who was crucified under Pontius Pilate, and in the name of the Holy Ghost, who through the prophets foretold all things about Jesus, he who is illuminated is washed. [10] Martyrdom of Ignatius 2 (140A.D.) Thou art in error when thou callest the daemons of the nations gods. For there is but 👨🏻‍🦳One God, who made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all that are in them; and 🤴🏻One Jesus Christ, 🫴the only-begotten Son of God, whose kingdom may I enjoy. 210AD TERTULLIAN A HERMOGENES. CHAP. III.--AN ARGUMENT OF HERMOGENES (🫨210A.D. time when 👉Jesus didn't exist?) Because God is in like manner a Father, and He is also a Judge; but He has not always been Father and Judge, merely on the ground of His having always been God. For He could not have been the Father previous to the Son, nor a Judge previous to sin. There was, however, a time when 👉neither sin existed with Him, 👉nor the Son;👈🆘 the former of which was to constitute the Lord a Judge, and the 🫴latter a Father. In this way He was not Lord previous to those things of which He was to be the Lord. But He was only to become Lord at some future time: just as He became 👉the "Father by the Son"👈, and a "Judge by sin", so also did He become Lord by means of those things which He had made, in order that they might serve Him. Do I seem to you to be weaving arguments Hermogenes? 210AD TERTULLIAN A HERMOGENES. CHAP. III.--AN ARGUMENT OF HERMOGENES Revelation 3:12 The one who conquers, I will make him a pillar in the temple of 👉"My God". Never shall he go out of it, and I will write on him the name of 👉"My God", and the name of the city of 👉 "My God", the new Jerusalem, which comes down from 👉 "My God" out of heaven, and 🤴🏻My New Name". (2 Separate individuals) Rev 3:21 KJV To him that overcomith , will I grant to sit with me on 🤴🏻"My Throne"; even as I also overcame, and ad set down with 👨🏻‍🦳"my father" on his throne. Matthew 19:28 Jesus said to them, “Truly, I say to you, in the new world, when the 👉"Son Of Man👈 will sit on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. AGAIN: Acts 7:55 But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, looked up to heaven and saw the "Glory of God, and 🤴🏻"Jesus standing" at the right hand of 👨🏻‍🦳God. 56 “Look,” he said, “I see heaven open and 🤴🏻"The Son of Man, Standing at the right hand 👨🏻‍🦳of God.” Here's where we find Jesus in the O.T. Daniel 7:9-14 “As I looked, “thrones were set in place, and the👨🏻‍🦳 "Ancient of Days" took his seat His clothing was as white as snow; the hair of his head was white like wool. His throne was flaming with fire, and its wheels were all ablaze. 10. A river of fire was flowing, coming out from before him. Thousands upon thousands attended him; ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him. The court was seated, and the books were opened. 13 “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a 👉 "Son of Man",coming with the clouds of heaven. 🤴🏻He approached the 👨🏻‍🦳 "Ancient of Days" and was led into his presence. 14 🤴🏻He was given Authority, glory and sovereign power; All Nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an Everlasting Dominion that will not pass away, and His Kingdom is one that will never be destroyed. 👆Jesus left his disciples in Galilee & Rhode a cloud to heaven & was presented before YHWH the "Ancient Ole & God-Of-Spirits". 😧Furthermore? Only 2% of Israel believe in Messiah because of 1720 years of LIES.😭😭😭 We're hiding "God's Chosen People, from their Own Messiah/Son-Of-Man". (See Enoch & Esdra's) CHRISTANY NEEDS SEVERE REFORMATION. MUSLIMS exploit us polytheist-looking Christians,and gain ALL OUR monotheistic Jewish converts.😓

[@charlestiraco8634]

Hi. Instead of coming in here with the same misinterpreted scriptures that have been posted around here a thousand times, why don't you take a little time to understand what they're showing you here and see if it lines up. Just so you know, there isn't a single scripture where Jesus said any variation of the words "I am God." He always calls his Father God and himself the Messiah. That should be a big red flag of suspicion at least!

[@johnnywatchman777]

John 10:30 "I and the father are 1" , written as clear as day , did you even read the bible before correcting people that are right @@charlestiraco8634

[@robertardoin4886]

If you don't believe in the Trinity then you are already lost

[@animatednostalgia5034]

Jesus didn't say anything about the Trinity. John 17:3 is what we are required to believe.

[@CalebTheHumbled]

Do you have Biblical evidence to support that or just personal beliefs?

[@logandearborn1478]

But if Jesus is not God, then he is a liar, and therefore not the perfect sacrifice for atonement meaning everyone is still unclean in God's eyes and destined for eternal separation from God's holy presence

[@CalebTheHumbled]

@logandearborn1478 Yet Jesus did not claim to be the One True God. He said God is his Father in heaven, who sent Him. The Trinity would have you believe Jesus is God, but Jesus said that is The Father.

[@animatednostalgia5034]

@@logandearborn1478 No, you are a liar. Jesus said that his Father is our Father, and that his God is our God. John 20:17 NKJV Jesus said to her, "Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.'" God can't die, God is immortal. Only human beings can die. Jesus is the last Adam. 1 Corinthians 15:21 NKJV For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead.

[@collinroth2421]

This man is a lying thief! Good and Jesus he believes in but did Christ not say when he went to heaven he would send the comforter the Holy Ghost?!

[@dboulos7]

This man is speaking the truth - Jesus can do nothing without the Father - The Father acts on behalf of those who pray in Jesus' name

[@ken440]

God is Holy. God is Spirit. holy spirit. God accessible through Jesus by way of spiritual connection, holy spirit within you, so you can approach the father yourself (through what Jesus did), crying Abba father. Reunited with God by spirit. Whats not comforting about that? Who said anything about a third being or third person of the trinity? That is the assumed part in all this, just like assuming that the Word is a being called the second person of the trinity.

[@lizzard13666]

Have you read Acts 2? Acts 2:22-23 (ESV) 22 “Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a man attested to you by God with mighty works and wonders and signs that God did through him in your midst, as you yourselves know-- 23 this Jesus, delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men. Acts 2:32-33 (ESV) 32 This Jesus God raised up, and of that we all are witnesses. 33 Being therefore exalted at the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this that you yourselves are seeing and hearing.

[@ken440]

have you considered what these answers say to your comment?

[@dboulos7]

@@lizzard13666 I don't believe that he's read many parts of the Bible - or, at least has understood very much, obviously.

[@stefaketch]

This man is lost

[@dboulos7]

No, he's saved. trinitarians are the threatened ones.

[@shibakim]

You are walking on the broad way that lead unto destruction. Matt 7:13

[@shibakim]

​@elimason7954No where. Rather Trinitarians must repent and come out of that lies otherwise they can not be saved.

[@ken440]

why are you lost?