My BIGGEST Problem With Breath Of The Wild & RTS Game Hot Takes

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#zelda #breathofthewild

[@CteCrassus]

Breath of the Wild finally contextualized why the Master Sword is so important in the fight against evil; It's the only weapon in Hyrule that isn't made of chocolate or peanut brittle.

[@inurokuwarz]

Yeah it's made out of the heartiest material in the land, compressed sand XD

[@yurigagarin9765]

Finally we got a true lorehead to explain BotW to us.

[@deadfr0g]

How can one save a kingdom if one does not temper their chocolate claymore? A master sword, you say? Methinks we need a master baker!

[@SeanJMay]

But it runs on dollar store AA batteries.

[@Leivve]

Vaush: Why do people not make RTS anymore? Also Vaush: RTS peaked at Brood Wars, RTS can't be improved upon.

[@FelisImpurrator]

Ironically, the obsessive chase for the "next big esports title like Starcraft" is basically what killed the RTS genre, because no one actually likes ultra high APM obsessive micro-heavy esports RTS gameplay other than the tiny fraction of gamers who are already in that scene. Stuff like The Riftbreaker does great because it's a fun base-building action RTS that has all the spectacle and strategy, without being so obscenely inaccessible and hyperfocused on the narrowest subset of players that no one else wants to bother.

[@zuiop9993]

@@FelisImpurrator totally agree. I don't care about e-sports at all. I want to finish the campaign and if that was fun maybe I'm going to play people every once in a while. I won't spend time to perfect my build orders or learn to control my units more effectively... I just want to play! I really hate broodwar and I don't care if anyone tells me to just get better at playing the game so it will be fun. It is incredibly easy in broodwar to lose an entire army because you looked away for literally one second! I just hate how micro heavy starcraft is... AOEII is a much better game for normal people.

[@emilchan5379]

GiantGrantGames made a video about this. In summary, devs became too focused on the esports aspect of RTS when that segment has never been the main draw of RTS players.

[@FelisImpurrator]

@@emilchan5379 Grant is based and knows his shit. Best RTS takes I've ever seen.

[@anirudhviswanathan3986]

ShreddedNerd also has a similar kind of take when it comes to FPS games.

[@elkosins1686]

Vaush needs an entirely separate channel for his dog water media takes so it doesn’t take up one of the days uploads here ever again

[@monodoro]

Realest comment ever typed

[@piccoloatburgerking]

Vaush and dog water media takes? How surprising.

[@RemixedVoice]

"Traush"

[@carolyntalbot947]

He also has shite music, media, and popular culture takes✨️😃

[@castillogrande8926]

Going to Vaush for media takes is like going to a stripper for chess strategy

[@piccoloatburgerking]

Oh boy time to see what spicy media take Vaush has this time.

[@TheBiggestMoneyBoy]

Legit no spicy take just that "yeah weapon durability was kinda annoying"

[@saudade7842]

'Where's the units?' he said, staring at the units lol

[@Broockle]

u mean the DOTS? 😆 That bit was precisely targeted.

[@ScarlettR61]

As a huge fan of HOI4 and Kaiserreich, Vaush’s relentless hatred is justified lol. The fan base is awful

[@matthewa6027]

It sucks for sure, but wtf the units are right there.

[@milo1815]

Agreed

[@andrewgreenwood9068]

There are like 20 leftist hoi4 players and the rest are fascist.

[@Helperbot-2000]

true

[@nataliearcadia]

Really speaks to the (nonexistent) popularity of the RTS genre that there are people in Vaush's chat who legitimately believe HOI4 is an RTS, lmao

[@juliuskresnik198]

Me just like making wacky weird countries that make no sense

[@sluttyMapleSyrup]

I mean, until I learned "4X" was a genre, I put Civ under the "RTS" umbrella...

[@stevenclark5173]

@@sluttyMapleSyrup How? Civ literally has turns, as in not real time.

[@sluttyMapleSyrup]

@@stevenclark5173 Because my first exposure to the series was Civ Rev, the made-for-console Civ that functioned almost like if you streamlined Civ5 into a board game, and due to how my friends played, the pacing felt similar to an RTS? Also I was a dumb teenager who didn't know there was a category for isometric-view, turn-based strategy games that was less of a mouthful than what I just typed? 😆 (Side note, Civ Rev is genuinely great if you can get past the goofy art style)

[@Broockle]

Stellaris has units at least 😅

[@SolracDude]

Something that always drives me insane about Breath of the Wild durability discourse is that nobody seems to care about the fact that the game gives you basically no information about durability at all. How much durability does it have? How much is left? Is that more or less than this other weapon? Does doing certain actions make it go down faster? Slower? This weapon has a buff that gives it extra durability, how much more? You get basically nothing. If you make weapons break, you effectively make weapon into a resource, but because BotW gives you next to 0 information, it's a resource that's near impossible to actually manage. Imagine if the game hid Link's health bar and your only clue to his health was that when he was nearly dead he'd blink red, and when he was at full health he had a slightly different idol animation. That's basically the level of info we're working with. Weapon durability as a mechanic is 100% fine but the game handled it in the sloppiest way possible. It might as well be random because that's what it feels like.

[@fjordojustice]

Weapon durability was great, the system made it so that finding a high quality weapon was always useful (excepting the late game when your inventory became chock-full of valuable weapons, which I think was what he was complaining about here)

[@override367]

but they broke almost immediately, it was so stupid, adding unnecessary farming to the game

[@am45_001]

As a late game Master Mode player, I always take into account the fact that the best weapons can still respawn. And when I need something really special, I can just run into Hyrule Castle to get some higher end stuff

[@Technoblast649]

​@@override367 What kind of farming? Weapons were absolutely everywhere

[@newflesh666]

I just wish that the champion's weapons were unbreakable and I wish that climbing wasn't nearly impossible when it's raining

[@am45_001]

@@Technoblast649 one weapon I usually go for when I need to restock is the royal claymore planted on top of that one shikah tower with the giant skull covering the top of it. And you can just do those tests of strength for the Guardian weapons, which are some of the best in the game. I suppose that's a kind of farming, plus the rupees you can get by mining ore which allow you to buy the ancient weapons from the ancient shop.

[@tylerhackner9731]

Media take

[@boy_porige]

Media take

[@piccoloatburgerking]

Media take

[@thatdarnskag5043]

🚨 🚨 Media take 🚨 🚨

[@MrLFJ7]

Media take lol

[@blazingmonolith4323]

Can confirm, roommate plays HoI4 is not a virgin and is not obsessed with Nazis. Vaush got this one wrong.

[@zotaninoron3548]

Two minutes in and Vaush is trying to reinvent Halo CE's weapon system.

[@Eveliane]

Vaush stop acting like all media should be made for him and him alone challenge(impossible)

[@Pontif11]

Thinking about it i don't care for people's takes if they think otherwise.

[@Pontif11]

@@johnjordan211 armchair CEOs thinking about the bottom line of the company

[@MsScarletwings]

I mean you could say the same thing about the people disagreeing with him on this lmao

[@johnjordan211]

Why should he cares about others people media wants lmao. Everyone wants media to pander to them.

[@Neon_Plasma]

@@johnjordan211 Yes but his takes are especially terrible

[@yaboiroth4776]

Vaush's opinions on RTS games are fucking glass brain. No Rise of Nations? No Company of Heroes? Barely a mention of C&C? No mention of the old Dune games?? These are basic ass RTS games. Vaush needs to keep commenting on politics and general social trends and leave RTS games alone.

[@sluttyMapleSyrup]

Man, I'm gonna have to find a way to give the Dune games and Black&White a go, because I've had their ads in C&C's manuals/cases forever and I've never seen a copy of those games.

[@comyuse9103]

i've said it once and i'll say it again weapon durability is objectively a good game mechanic. it doesn't fit into every type of game, of course, but the only reason it didn't work in botw is because literally nothing else was built with it in mind. in botw it doesn't encourage you to meaningfully interact with the inventory system, it just makes you pick up garbage to hit things with as you explore. ideally it should feel like ammo in a hardcore version of fallout; a variable limit to both what you can carry and how much you can fight, forcing you to pick your battles and manage your inventory. even at very low levels it can provide very interesting emergent gameplay. when a careless hit to a zombie with an exoskeleton or something can break your bat you will be more careful in using it and will have to react when it does eventually become an issue.

[@gabriellabelle3915]

Think ck3 and those are actually best thought out of as a role-playing game, and this is very much the direction most of the developers are taking this content within the titles to varying degrees

[@aphoxema]

The only 4X game that I've ever really liked is Stellaris, I think it slapping together tropes from every space opera makes the whole deluge of notifications and juggling a dozen different strategies a little less painful

[@twpsyn]

"strategy" this, "unit" that, I simply only play games I can rocket jump in

[@sluttyMapleSyrup]

Based TF2 stan?

[@twpsyn]

@@sluttyMapleSyrup tf2 players are either lefty trans gamers or racists there is no in-between

[@Helperbot-2000]

based tf2 enjoyer, however, un based foor playing soldier

[@masterplusmargarita]

For whatever reason Breath of the Wild never instilled too-good-to-use syndrome in me (I'm usually an obsessive hoarder in games who'll never use a single-use item, ever), so I'd actually use my good weapons fairly regularly, and played that way the durability system is an absolute master stroke - it means you're always changing up your battle tactics around whatever the best thing you have is, and when you run out of good stuff it forces you to adapt to having to fall back on a weak weapon, it's incredibly dynamic and fun and brilliant. That said, the system IS designed in such a way it will 100% inspire too-good-to-use syndrome in most players (I honestly don't know what freak wire got crossed in my brain so that I didn't feel the need to hoard good weapons in this game specifically), and the resulting play pattern is unfun. If they could just find a way to circumvent that (maybe limiting your weapon inventory more, so that you're always full on good weapons and don't have a reason to use bad ones? But then small inventories really really suck to deal with, I don't know...) I think it would be a legitimately brilliant system, the sense of scrappiness, variety ans on-your-feet thinking it inspires in combat is unmatched.

[@shrimpchris6580]

You're not changing up tactics when you swap from one stat stick to another stat stick that functions identically outside of the number it hits for

[@masterplusmargarita]

@@shrimpchris6580 Sure. Good thing the weapons aren't interchangeable stat sticks?

[@shrimpchris6580]

@@masterplusmargarita They literally are, there's not enough movesets to matter. There are 3 kinds and every weapon in those swings at the same speed with the same range and same animation but different numbers

[@masterplusmargarita]

@@shrimpchris6580 There's also elemental variants, magic rods, weapons and shields with special properties, boomerangs, weapons meant to be throwable and wacky shit like korok leafs. While I do think weapon variety is an issue, weapons do play differently enough that swapping from one to another usually means you can start doing something different (at least once you're out of the early game - I will concede early game weapons are mostly just "Here's one of the three main weapon types")

[@Helperbot-2000]

yeah same here, ill be left with 2000 stimpacks at the end of new vegas every time

[@4freeedom]

me laughing as vaush viciously makes fun of a game that i have played for 1000 hours

[@OctyabrAprelya]

Oi. I also played Age of Mythology a lot.

[@Tom-it6gi]

BOTW was brilliant. All the cool shit you can learn how to do. I never once managed to kill a Lynel in my first playthrough. I killed Ganon, but not a Lynel. My second playthrough, I killed dozens of Lynels. You want to use shield-parries (LZ + A) when it tries to attack you. Think of the incoming attack as a cricket ball or a baseball (depending on what region you're from), and you're trying to time that onto your bat (your shield). And don't bother with Stasis Plus. If you stun a Lynel using Stasis Plus, its recovery time is shorter, and you probably won't be able to climb on it, in time. And once you get some Lynel Bows, you can also use them against future Lynels, to hit them with three or even five arrows in one hit, which helps drain their HP. Though, once you've got the hang of fighting them, this isn't necessary. And when you climb on the back of a Lynel, you get not just five free hits, but your weapons take no damage from these hits.

[@shrimpchris6580]

Lynels are piss easy to fight, flurry rushing is such a fucking joke, it's so easy to hit. Opening menus every 5 seconds to pick weapons and going into slow mo every time you hit a piss easy flurry rush is incredibly fucking boring though, the combat is absolutely horrendous

[@DarkChaos1986]

​@@shrimpchris6580 e lo

[@DarkChaos1986]

Vm0vnpvnn😢😢 NV u 😢 JK u j and j and j I have BB have it since he shouted the time

[@Kevo6492]

I never had a problem with weapon durability in BOTW personally. I was always stacked with great to superb weapons.

[@zleeven]

Yep, they is no lack of cool weapons in BOTW. My favorite weapons are the element weapons, and I can find all of the at the coliseum. What to stuck up in royal weapons, ill hit the castle. Wan t savage weapon, ill take on lynels. I don't get why people want a repair function when ever 99% of weapons can be recovered with relative ease.

[@sqweed653]

They pulled it off perfectly tbh. The world is so huge so you have to make weapons common and balancing that with durability added a lot of depth to combat as well

[@sluttyMapleSyrup]

Same. If I was stuck with a weapon that I felt was ineffective for the situation I was in, I either changed tactics or searched for the weapon I thought would be most effective, then tried again. The freedom to engage with puzzles/encounters as intended or cheese half of them by using the landscape or mechanics to your advantage kept me engaged with the game for months despite lacking the typical dungeon-delves we've grown used to and enjoy from the franchise.

[@sluttyMapleSyrup]

​@@zleeven Right? Half the good shit I use is stuff I've stolen off Hinoxes because 1) they're fun to fight, and C) their royal knight weapons usually come with the "+durability" or "+power" modifiers.

[@shrimpchris6580]

They all have the same three moveset and create a million problems that weren't addressed in any meaningful way, it's shit

[@kevley26]

Age of Empires 2 is still alive and well Vaush. You should play the definitive edition, it has a pretty big player base and the devs regularly update the game and have added more civilizations. It is a really good game, and has only gotten better since it was released over twenty years ago.

[@drakewickman2079]

True

[@OctyabrAprelya]

Vaush has removed AoE2 from his memory because he played it with Natalie Wynn once or twice back in the day.

[@drakewickman2079]

@@OctyabrAprelya Is she any good at the game? I want to 1v1 her with the stakes being that if I win, she must legally change her name to Natalie Lose.

[@GodofDeath12000]

"The best RTS game ever was Brood War." Once again, Vaush proving he's 100% correct in everything he discusses.

[@felicityc]

that's basically the easiest and least controversial answer you can possibly give though.

[@RedShocktrooperRST]

Wrong, it was Yuri's Revenge.

[@cc-bk3tx]

Brood war is okay

[@AD-qc5zd]

All y'all zoomers don't remember Age of Empires 2 and it shows.

[@josiahferrell5022]

@@AD-qc5zd I never played AoE II, but I did play Galactic Battlegrounds which is basically the AoE II engine with Star Wars skins. I can't speak to balance or anything like that, but I really enjoyed it when I played it when I was about 14 years old.

[@jakitron890]

I literally got into HOI4 through my girlfriend, it just melds to our autisms too well

[@originalulix]

If all Paradox games were the same, I really would hope they're all like Crusader Kings, because that one is actually a free-form, sandbox RPG more than a strategy game. Which is why I find it fun. Also, being able to pause in RTS games is objectively good. If you're older than 21 at least (and not a virgin anymore).

[@LivreOrange]

i agre full, the problem with EU4 and imperator is the diplomacy wich is gamy as hell. And in CK2 "nation" are not monolithic wich is immersiv

[@fallwizard2073]

I really like how when vaush said "wheres the units" there were many units on screen lol. I dont even mind the paradox slander but damn.

[@seangallagher9435]

He’s complaining about actually seeing the fighting. I like micro in Hoi but I can’t play it without console commands

[@dmman33]

Paradox map games are Grand Strategy, not 4x

[@ismeal231]

Not to sound ableist, but another reason Vaush likes total War Warhammer is because he has the autism, and the game, as of less than 7 days ago, has gotten trains as a playable unit.

[@jakespacepiratee3740]

The correct RTS Games are Stellaris, XCOM and Halo Wars

[@sluttyMapleSyrup]

Halo Wars is definitely a GOAT of the RTS genre.

[@Gendor64]

Never minded the durability too much in botw... on my second playthrough. But my goblin brain actively prevented me from actually using any of the special weapons. Especially the quest ones like the goron hammer etc. just ended up collecting dust. The fact that getting them back is hella expensive just for it to break anyway does also reduce the willingness to use it. There are some elements where the durability makes sense tho. You can defeat ganon without ever doing any quests, and to allow that they hid a bunch of high damage low durability weapons in the castle. The fact that those exist make me appreciate the durability and what could be done with it, if it sees some adjustments. However, especially on my second playthrough it made me reconsider how to approach combat. Using the environment, metal crates etc. more often. It's just a shame that by the time you've most likely gone past the "monkey hit things" stage you're already done, giving most people few reasons to go around again and actually experiment. It reminds me of how some people talk of vanquish. Where the first playthrough will be slow and boring for most, and when you could finally grasp how to speed the game up most people would've stopped playing. I do 100% agree with the healing aspect tho, grab a load of hearty durians which always spawn high quantities and completely bypass the cooking mechanic and the risk of dying. Or spam the 12000 apples i know you have to heal up. I still don't feel that a single of my 100 hours was wasted tho. I had a blast and even if elements of it's design became trivial over time, early on they could force you into making interesting and risky decisions. Or be me and bash your head against the problem until it solves itself.

[@jackhustwayte4567]

Some of my favourite moments in games is having my weapon break or run out of ammo and completing whatever it is improvised

[@sluttyMapleSyrup]

That's kind of my favourite way to play FarCry (especially 5) and Ghost Recon: Wildlands.

[@yourewrong9028]

Wait, so I have a question. If seeing the units is one of the major things Vaush sees as being the difference between the Chad RTS and the Virgin 4x Grand Stratgy games, what does that make Stellaris?

[@sluttyMapleSyrup]

Or Civ for that matter

[@12halo3]

You can also see the unites in hoi4 just zoom in. Not like an rts tho they just have animations of running and shooting.

[@yourewrong9028]

@@sluttyMapleSyrup Civ is turn-based, so it can’t be an RTS.

[@nathanpetrich7309]

Vaush, if Link only had like two weapon slots, nobody would ever keep a korok leaf. Bad take.

[@sluttyMapleSyrup]

True! I only keep it because I have the space to carry at least open spear, sword, boomerang, and leaf simultaneously.

[@eugenegubbard4017]

I don't think he's wrong here, I just think the word he uses to explain the difference between individual moving components in an 'rts' vs a '4x' game, 'units', is really funny and weird, because in real life, the word 'unit' refers to groups of people rather than individuals; whereas rts games typically deal in individual troops and machines, which he ironically refers to as 'units', even though HOI4 and other wargame-descended video games usually deal with... well, y'know... *UNITS*. Just pedantry from me, though

[@pharethi1241]

More of an exact definition conflict though, because this is how RTS themselves were referring to individual troops/machines since the beginning of the genre - units. So he was using genre definition, not IRL military one. From RTS perspective, "unit" defines individual part of your troops you can control, be it separate individuals (Starcraft), whole squad (Company of Heroes or Warhammer Dawn of War) or, in extreme cases, whole squad with the ability to split them into individuals to control each one separately (Man of War my beloved).

[@sluttyMapleSyrup]

​@@pharethi1241 Was going to say this, lol. Been playing RTS games since Red Alert 2's expansion pack came out and the C&C franchise has always referred to them as "units".

[@evictionnotice1155]

I play HOI4 with a randomizer mod and a cheat menu to turn it into a cheesy sandbox where I can conquer the world as luxembourg, and then I go to youtube to see how everyone else plays and it's just Yhatzee's larping their wet dreams. Also online multiplayer for hoi4 is literally anti-fun. Literally a competitive excel spreadsheet.

[@andrewgreenwood9068]

There is a pretty large minority of left wing hoi players.

[@12halo3]

@@andrewgreenwood9068 I like playing the anarchists in tno and other mods that actually bother to include them.

[@andrewgreenwood9068]

@@12halo3 personally I tend to play the democratic socialist paths for Bulgaria, Italy and the USA. Although anarchist Ethiopia is pretty fun.

[@darthrevan618]

​@@andrewgreenwood9068 that is true, i mostly play with Mods, OWB, KR and TNO so i bascially never interact with the fanbase

[@Helperbot-2000]

@@andrewgreenwood9068 ive been going alot of democratic czechoslovakia lately

[@RedShocktrooperRST]

Command & Conquer Red Alert 2 Yuri's Revenge is the peak of RTS in my opinion. You cannot change my mind. But Zero Hour comes close.

[@sluttyMapleSyrup]

No argument from me, only agreement. Generals: Zero Hour is great, though I'm really disappointed how poor C&C games' difficulty curves are. RA2's and Generals' "easy" is basically braindead - especially if you turn off/limit superweapons - but "normal"/"medium" can out-strategize my (most likely) ADHD brain while I'm still building up units and defenses. RA3 tried to fix this by making "easy" smarter but it's almost as smart as the formers' "medium", so I still get steamrolled shamefully often.

[@albrecht4067]

Imagine thinking Brood War is the best RTS game. Has Vaush never heard of Supreme Commander, its expansion Forged Alliance, and its predecessor Total Annihilation? (We don't talk about Supreme Commander 2) Even with modern RTS, you have things like Deserts of Kharak, Homeworld Remastered and the other games in the Homeworld series. Grey Goo was pretty decent. Ashes of the Singularity. Star Wars: Empire at War. AI War: Fleet Command. The Creeper World series of games. Perimeter. Planetary Annihilation. Are the only RTS's Vaush can name Starcraft, Age of Empires, and Command and Conquer?

[@josiahferrell5022]

What about Stronghold and SH Crusader? I know a lot of people like them, but I'm not sure how many of those people are RTS aficionados

[@albrecht4067]

@@josiahferrell5022 I was mostly just listing decent RTS games I have experience with, which you may notice skews heavily sci-fi lol. IMO there's a lot more space for creativity for both mechanics and aesthetics in such settings, compared to more "realistic" historical-fiction. Though I will also list a few more I've enjoyed over the years: Battle Realms. Dragonshard. Warlords Battlecry. Rise of Nations: Extended Edition. Rise of Nations: Rise of Legends. Empires: Dawn of the Modern World.

[@thehylian6984]

scrolled way too far for a supcom comment

[@johannesjoseph823]

I will not tolerate such slander of Age of Mythology

[@androgenius_alisa]

"This isn't a hipster thing" says a guy in a reference to 199X game that has a sequel that is objectively better. Like, Starcraft 2 is so much better for new players

[@cc-bk3tx]

This is flat true

[@chillpillsfornil]

Dying Light does the weapon durability well. As in, only melees break, there is a repair system (but you can only do it two or three times) and you are going to be using mostly melees because ammo for ranged weapons is very parsed, rare and expensive to buy.

[@Notllamalord]

Yessir

[@sluttyMapleSyrup]

And weapons become so abundant that you can usually survive with merely two or three modified melees at a time. I find myself selling off so many because they're either worse than the ones I've been stashing in anticipation of my current ones breaking, or the ones I stashed get outmatched by the new ones I pick up by the time I need them.

[@chillpillsfornil]

@@sluttyMapleSyrup I would destroy them for that sweet, sweet metal piece/part (forgot the name of the thing)

[@Tom-it6gi]

The main thing I'd change about BOTW is how often it rained. That probably could have been cut down by like 50-70 percent. I don't mind a frustrating, random mechanic, like that, that can thwart you from doing things, sometimes, but it happened much too frequently, for me.

[@raysay1818]

There were also areas that were either always raining or constantly raining until x point is reached. which was a neat way to use the rain mechanic without it feeling like an arbitrary rng check to climbing challenges. the puzzle for the area was overcoming the inability to climb effectively. This system should put into place more often compared to the weather cycle that exists currently in game it works nice but being stuck because it decided to rain isn't fun

[@sluttyMapleSyrup]

​@@raysay1818 Also areas where certain weather was more likely; like how it storms more often in the Faron rainforest and Zora's Domain than Hyrule Field or Tabantha.

[@Tom-it6gi]

@@raysay1818 ugh, that puzzle area was such a pain. Didn't even manage to do it in my first play-through. Got it on the second play-through, though.

[@genghisdingus]

real RTS games are videos with clickbait titles like 3 million Waffle House Employees vs 7 Chuck Norrises

[@Helperbot-2000]

unrealistic, one chuck norris is more than enough

[@user-ro9md9wp3j]

The worst thing about BotW is the voice acting…

[@sluttyMapleSyrup]

And honestly, I think it's primarily Zelda's voice. Twilight Princess' Zelda seemed to have a less softspoken voice (if she even had one... she certainly looked like she wouldn't be nearly as softspoken in voice as BotW's, but I forget if she actually _spoke_ any dialogue). She sounds more like Princess Peach in BotW than the badass warrior princess the franchise has conditioned us to expect.

[@Nick-hi9gx]

There are some great RTS of different styles to the Starcraft/AoE style. Total War definitely made a different kind of RTS popular, and though unmodded Total War sucks assholes, with mods the games can be good. And then there are games that have tried to be like a mini-Total War, or seamless tactics/strategy map. Hegemony III is great, people are saying Knights of Sovereign II is pretty good, you can play Mount and Blade 2: Bannerlord as an RTS. The like "historical war" style RTS is still alive. But the old 90's kind are dead, sadly. There ARE more uhh...real time tactics I suppose games coming out. A Starship Troopers one, a new Aliens one, Ancestors Legacy is kind of like Company of Heroes and there are hints it is getting a sequel. I think squad-based is the way that games are going to move forward in the whole strategy genre.

[@timothytosser288]

Link is hot

[@alexanderjaulmes4470]

Cossacks 3 is a criminally underrated game.

[@trafichat]

These people talking about RTS games and I'm sitting here wondering why nobody mentions any of the Command and Conquer games. Seriously, how did nobody think to mention Command and Conquer???

[@cc-bk3tx]

Because everyone thinks starcraft is miles better or something like that

[@an0bserver2000]

ultimately I think weapon durability was a solution to deal with a problem a lot of open world games suffer from; that its difficult to fill a world that big with meaningful content. when your weapons break, no matter what you find out in the wild, it's probably going to feel worthwhile because your better weapons will break eventually. in a lot of other games you might just find a really good weapon early on and have everything you find from then on feel pointless. I genuinly belive that games like botw and elden ring are good despite being open world games, not because of it. the genre just introduces so many inherent flaws that can be really difficult and time consuming to design around.

[@sluttyMapleSyrup]

I think part of the reason BotW and Elden Ring are such good open-world games is because they don't treat "open-world" as a genre, they treat it as a setting. Elden Ring is a Soulsborne _set_ in an open-world, and BotW is a Zelda game set in an open-world, as well as the franchise's first foray into non-linear narrative presentation (the ability to do the Divine Beasts in any order, or go straight to the final boss and skip them altogether, the lack of "have X shrine orbs before you can access this area" stuff...).

[@Notllamalord]

In defense of pausing rimworld no pause challenge is practically impossible

[@biologicalengineoflove6851]

Brood War, AOEII, Red Alert 2. The Holy Trinity

[@hellfirdragon17]

I think the biggest problem with weapon durability was it being soooo low on the bottom tier weapons you can get at the start. Mid and high tier weapons actually last for a good amount of combat but everyones first experience is a boko club that breaks after 2 moblins.

[@sluttyMapleSyrup]

Perhaps playing a self-imposed form of "On-Site Acquisition" in shooters helped condition me for BotW's gameplay loop because I kinda always found it fun to take down one enemy, then use their weapon to take down another, and basically just "gun game" your way through enemy camps lol

[@o8o8das]

BOTW should be renamed “500 Hours of Gresham’s Law”

[@SnuSnuDungeon]

My problem with BOTW was that Ganon was such a non entity for me I forgot he was in the game and couldn't be arsed to go fight him until like 4 years after the games initial launch

[@pancakes8670]

Which is a shame, because they wanted to make him feel more like an overbearing force of Nature. I suppose he would have been more memorable if the bosses were more unique, instead of just 4 different nerfed versions of the Final Boss.

[@dinodare1605]

I liked the weapon durability because I'm the type of dude who'll get sentimentally attached to the first stick that I pick up and literally keep it for the entire game just for that reason.

[@renardleblanc5556]

My problem with BotW (which is *purely* a matter of preference) is that I liked how classic Zelda games made equipment acquisition a mark of progress. You didn't get new gear because you found it lying around, or went farming somewhere... new gear was a hallmark event, a plot point. If Hearts of Iron is an "RTS," so is SimCity... for the NES

[@emilne83]

Such a shit take on RTS. Age 4 is genuinely the most fun I've had in multiplayer since maybe the late 90s. Sure it's not top of the steam charts, but it has a very healthy player base, just like Age 2 does.

[@FafliXx]

I like weapon durability, but imo shields and bows should not break. In fact you should just have one of those. Bows are already limited by arrows, and shields are just not interesting enough to warrant having so many different ones except for looks. And 2/3 of the weapon types have you fighting without a shield as well. Sadly TotK does not seem to change that, but maybe the fusing will make shields more interesting.

[@Helperbot-2000]

yeah dont you love how totk changed literally nothing of what made botw shit? lmao

[@FafliXx]

@@Helperbot-2000 yep. I mean they offset some stuff, like the weapon fusing making weapon durability basically not matter anymore. that part was nice. Otherwise, they had a prime opportunity to fix the bad systems in BotW and barely did anything.

[@DavidG-vp7vr]

I honestly think if Vaush played one of the Paradox grand strategy games, he would get the appeal, especially on the harder difficulties. The fandom can be cringe and bad, but most fandoms are. Fandoms are cringe by their nature.

[@andrewgreenwood9068]

I would recommend he play stellaris as it has the best learning experience.

[@nuclearneo577]

Command & Conquer really needs to come back.

[@sluttyMapleSyrup]

Only if the old Westwood crew or a crew with a great appreciation for Westwood's work are behind it. EA has done a damn good job murdering the franchise following RA3 and C&C3: Kane's Wrath.

[@catsforcomms1952]

I don’t mind that Ganon is a more abstract evil in BOTW, and think it makes sense that he’d return as Ganondorf in the sequel. That’s more or less his pattern in the lore anyway - Ganon the pure evil distills itself into human (Gerudo) form to wreak a more insidious sort of havoc. As a pair of games, BOTW and TOTK work in that way I believe - I like experiencing both versions. Ganondorf followed by Ganondorf would be less effective cuz it’s like “huh. This guy again, nothing better to do eh” and so would Ganondorf followed by Ganon because the hype for Ganondorf as a character is greater.

[@MrHat.]

Ok but vaush is objectively wrong about hoi4 being a 4x game. I wouldn't call it an RTS because of pausing. Its Grand Strategy, ie Map Painting

[@logoncal3001]

"Grand strategy is like what Doom is to literature. Doom isnt a very good literature. In fact its not a book at all its a shooter game." - Ssethzentach.

[@RedStar439]

He's a FOOL for denigrating Age of Mythology, but aside from that he is also forgetting the existence of Total War as a bridge between both sides of the Grand Strat / RTS divide. Its. Not. Dead. Yet. And Grand Strategy is engaging if you invest in the systems and storytelling you create with them.

[@mirvYT]

I bet Vaush could appreciate Endless Legend and Endless Space 2. They are very comfortable fantasy 4x games with great art direction.

[@venmis137]

Grand Strategy is a better category for HoI4 tbh. It's DEFNITELY not 4x, and whether or not it's RTS is debateable. One does get a certain kind of brainrot from playing GS games though, speaking from experience it's probably not a good idea to spend all your time playing them.

[@saudade7842]

Yeah, Stellaris is Paradox's 4x game

[@felicityc]

it's too late for me, the rot is endemic

[@kevley26]

Yeah I've spent way too much time on Eu4 and after a while I don't even have much fun playing the game. Although I do think if you have a good multiplayer group it can still be pretty fun.

[@4supergamma]

Even when he has a correct take he makes me hate him, I love it😂

[@torgal5088]

Me watching any Vaush video

[@thehylian6984]

any supreme commander enjoyers in chat?

[@jw7500]

The problem with Botw was bad bosses, no real story happening in real time and no good dungeons (everything else was excellent). HOWEVER, that AoE2 take tho.....THAT'S inexcusable

[@sluttyMapleSyrup]

Yeah, I wish there were more "dungeons" than just the Divine Beasts and shrines focused around a single puzzle.

[@shrimpchris6580]

It didn't really do any one thing excellent

[@Dre0oq]

I'm also a big Starcraft boy but Company of Heroes blew my mind when it came out. The campaign is really impressive and actually holds up pretty well. The shift away from APM and Basebuilding to tactics and map control was very interesting. Dunno about the sequels tho.

[@polyticks8453]

My favorite thing that Vaush does is not that he loses his mind laughing at the dumbest things possible but mostly when he hyper focuses on one thing and then repeats the same question in regards to his focus about a billion times. Every time he asks the same question it gets funnier to me

[@polyticks8453]

7:39

[@idkwhattohaveasausername5828]

It's a great game, but not nearly as great as people think it is. Tears of the kingdom is just more of the same, but I'm still gonna play it because I love Zelda. I like the weapon durability mechanic, it encourages you to explore and use unorthodox methods to take out enemies. The game definitely has faults but it's overall enjoyable. Hopefully TOTK fixes everything wrong with it.

[@yurigagarin9765]

"Tears of the kingdom is just more of the same" My dude or dudette, the game isn't out yet. We don't even know if it has dungeons or a linear story.

[@eye-chan1711]

Vaush going through all of the Hoi4 video and ignoring all of the units and then complaining that you can't see the actual troops... when you can if you zoom in more. Bruh...

[@Chinesetakeout382]

I wish there was a repair system so that you could prep for a fight. But this issue is helped a lot if you know the weapon farming locations.

[@illeatyourhands]

Skill issue

[@MrNeodylliphan]

I like how Dark Souls 2 did durability. Weapons do less damage as they wear down, but as long as you don't break them completely, they get repaired when you rest

[@The7x42]

Total Annihilation wasn't even mentioned. Thus his opinion doesn't matter

[@alrecks619]

Reminder that Xanderhal exists if you actually want decent pop culture/media takes.

[@Summer_Tea]

I used to be a hardcore brood war player competing against Koreans and such. But as I've gotten older I find that nothing in RTS is more satisfying than good ole Tiberian dawn/sun single player campaign. Something about their simplicity and slow, plodding pace maxe it feel like you were living a story through sandbox RTS gameplay.

[@BLooDCoMPleX]

As a Brood War fanatic I feel exulted to hear my autistic elitist takes echoed from a politics streamer. Check out ASL, it's the bi-yearly Brood War tournament held in Korea and it's fucking magnificent. The fact that Brood War still has a very active and vibrant esports scene (one of the biggest in the whole RTS genre, maybe THE biggest) after 25 years is incredible.

[@StyxTBuferd]

Personally I can't vibe with this at all, Breath of the Wild is my favorite Zelda game and my second favorite game of all time after New Vegas. Weapon durability for me at least was genuinely perfect. I disagree that it cheapened the rewards you got, as it amplified how precious your best weapons were. You didn't want to use your best weapons all the time because you did not want them to break- so you were happy to find good "intermediate" weapons to protect the durability of those rewards you would use in more clutch situations. Weapon durability doesn't make your best weapons less enjoyable, it makes them more precious and makes you still care about finding other weapons even though you have better ones. Think of how many games there are where you get one or two really strong rewards, and you just coast through the whole game only using those. Doesn't matter if you find a neat new revolver if its numbers were smaller than the best one you found.

[@Dr_Hax]

btw the green daddy is not Ganon but Ganondorf which is a male gerudo (the gerudo is that race that is girls only, but every 100 years has a boy borning), that turns into Ganon.

[@sluttyMapleSyrup]

The lore around Ganon and Ganondorf is complicated, because they're technically the same person, and themselves are the avatar of Demise, but in most games where "Ganondorf" appears, he's either only referred to as such while in "mortal" form, or is just referred to as simply "Ganon" (Wind Waker, Twilight Princess...) regardless of whether he's feigning mortality or not.

[@worsethanyouthink]

Halo wars is the only good RTS because you can play it on your couch or literally anywhere Besides a desktop.

[@avocadocrumch]

bababooey

[@Juhz0r]

You speak the truth!

[@felicityc]

bababooey

[@afroponix3414]

Honestly, the StarCraft, really the original and original expansion are the only RTS worth playing

[@GekkeGeitjes]

My hot take about BOTW is that Steph Sterling was right, its a 7/10 game.

[@sluttyMapleSyrup]

Fair. I definitely got more enjoyment out of it than Twilight Princess, but that's only because there's more to do and explore in BotW so it's literally just a matter of "more time spent on a save file before starting a new one". TP is still my all-time favourite Zelda game.

[@FelixRosas10]

I would have been cool if they gave us a place to repair or buy new weapons. Like some rewards for quests are weapons or shields, if you use them, literally all your work goes to waste 😑

[@Apollo-iq1vx]

I think Dark Cloud for the PS2 has a better system for breakable weapons. Weapons have their own "WHP" stamina bar, and all you need to fix it is Repair Powder (very cheap and easy to buy in large bulk amounts). If it broke it permanently disappeared, but you had to be really bad at the game to let it break (especially if you used the green Auto-Repair Powder that automatically repaired a weapon without you needing to actually go into your item bag to use it).

[@falconeshield]

​@@joeylord7152 Only 1 though

[@cookies23z]

"the problem with that is im bad" Actually the problem is games need more modular difficulty, im glad pathalogic 2 did what it did, and the last of us 2 for its problems and drama had it done amazingly as well some people will find a game challenging, others will find that impossible, and some will find it too easy, I appreciate options

[@GunnarWahl]

My favorite rts was always red alert 2

[@sluttyMapleSyrup]

Same

[@unmaykr117]

I cannot believe he actually said you shouldn’t be able pause in strategy games. Sure for multiplayer yes, but you shouldn’t be able to pause when you’re playing by your fucking self??? If I wanted fair I would fucking play multiplayer!

[@SuperPanoply]

Thank God. I was starting to think my decision to play StarCraft instead of dating wasn't Chad.

[@revenge3265]

Vaush hits his shots half of the time when talking about media and this most certainly was a miss I'll tell you what

[@purewhiteloverbizarrejelly]

I was with Vaush until he agreed that Fallout weapon durability wasn’t implemented well.

[@joshuaraymer1705]

Biggest problem with BotW is that it had bad voice acting and no incentive to use any of its options beyond their novelty

[@boyishmallard9404]

The biggest problem with botw is absolutely not voice acting.

[@user-ro9md9wp3j]

@@boyishmallard9404 false

[@boyishmallard9404]

@@user-ro9md9wp3j voice acting was a bigger problem than the fact that the final boss of the game is easier than a silver lynel?

[@januszkurahenowski2860]

You can do the Ben Shapiro argument against Hearts of Iron being an RTS game Dumb lib: HoI is actually an rts game, where does it say that it has to be real time (and have cool units to control)? Ben Shapiro: It's literally in the name, real time strategy. Liberal owned (or whatever he says after owning a lib)

[@br9374]

I actually liked Fallout: NV's weapon durability. Guns jam eventually and I liked the realism. I don't remember it ever being a problem.

[@unclebobboomergames]

Problem with BOTW was that it was open world normie bait. Exploration isnt even top 5 of things i care about

[@AD-qc5zd]

Age of Empires 2 is better than Starcraft and it isn't even close. One of those games still has dlc coming out in the year of our lord 2023.

[@heliophane]

Lil bro really only gave a passing mention to CNC 😂

[@jeffperteet2327]

A better city builder game needs to happen

[@sluttyMapleSyrup]

Big true. Always feels strange that in spite of all the advancements in game design, mechanics, and complexity, Rollercoaster Tycoon seems to be a more robust or realistic "city builder" than actual city builders. Jacob Geller makes a great point about this: "In RCT, coasters dominate the landscape, they can change the whole layout of a park, but in city builders, often plopping down massive skyscrapers is no big deal, it effectively changes nothing (besides maybe traffic flow) and doesn't require me to think about my civil planning the way RCT does."