My ELECTRIC CAR BATTERY isn't doing the expected mileage [LBC Legal Hour]

[@adamsouth1368]

Not a hope in hell. Caller would never have been told it did 80 miles on a charge; they might have been told it could do "up to 80 miles", and that's still likely the case. Also, electric cars are not at their most efficient during motorway driving.

[@nelftm]

"electric cars are not at their most efficient during motorway driving." I heard Daniel's comment and thought the same. He's using ICE logic when talking about an EV.

[@Billy_Rizzle]

The audio is only coming out of one speaker.

[@ULTIMARAGNAR0K]

Yeah only on my left AirPod . Glad it’s not me

[@Nick-lm9hg]

The caller has no chance

[@theolddog5129]

Only the Sith deal in absolutes as once said by a Jedi!

[@tracer1127]

Buying a brand new electric car with a full warranty getting it serviced at a main agent is a completely different prospect to a second, third or fourth hand vehicle that is not maintained to the same standard with batteries that become way less efficient years down the line. As for not being able to turn on the heater, heated seats, heated steering wheel and radio for the fear of the battery draining what use is that in the UK that has miserable weather all the time. Plus the depreciation will give you a heart attack.

[@Rapscallion2009]

The problem with this and with fuel consumption is that so much comes down to your particular driving style, environment and so on. It's quite possible that if you got in that Zoe in August and drove sedately from one town to another without changing speed much or going very fast it would do 80 miles. If you like to zip around down, bounding up to junctions and clapping on the brakes then ripping away from them your mileage will suffer. My tip - don't exceed 50mph and try not to brake very much (let the car coast up to junctions). Check your tyres pressures are silly low (that will impact energy consumption). People have been complaining about fuel consumption for decades - manufacturers make ludicrous claims sometimes. In the early days of Hybrids many made claims like "100mpg" - which were totally unobtainable in the production cars in real-world scenarios.

[@tomsixsix]

It's so dependent upon driving style. I generally get the rated range out of my ID.3. If I have a 180 mile trip and the car has 190 miles in the "tank", I'll arrive with around 10-15 miles. It's actually impressive how accurate it is. But not all manufacturers are quite as good. I stick to speed limits for longer journeys and that makes a big difference too.

[@Rapscallion2009]

@@tomsixsix Yeah - aerodynamic drag increases as the square of the speed. Most cars have a "favourite" speed, but I'm guessing it might not be the same for electric cars as they don't have to worry about many engine design compromise factors ICE engines do.

[@tomsixsix]

@@Rapscallion2009 Generally EVs are much more efficient at lower speeds. For ICE the optimum speed is around 45 mph, but for an EV it is around 20 mph. Stop-start for EV is quite efficient due to regen braking and low idle energy usage (no engine idle or engine restart for stop-start). But, in colder weather, EV has to provide its own heat, which can be a penalty in slow driving.

[@FredFox-m9v]

The LBC guy doesn't know what he is talking about 55 mph gives the best mpg with an ice car because the engine is most efficient when it warms up, electric motors don't warm up as such. Generally the slower you drive in an EV, the greater the range. The higher the speed, the less the range. My EV is nearly 9 years old. The battery has now degraded 42% from new. I certainly would not buy a second hand EV. For that matter after my experience of them ( utter - - - t - ), I would never buy a new one either.

[@ForburyLion]

You are often recommended to charge to the battery 80% capacity to prolong the battery life. If the caller is doing that then the missing 20% might be the difference in range available versus range quoted. The battery would have been under warranty, I believe VW provide an 8 year warranty, I doubt Renault provided a 10 year battery warranty when this car was manufactured but maybe worth looking into if the issue is as a result of battery degradation. Maybe the lesson here is when buying a used EV is to ask to test drive it from fully charged to close to zero so that you can confirm the range is as stated or maybe just find out if the AA, RAC or similar can do an independent inspection and verify the expected range.

[@josephfredbill]

Again audio is all on the left

[@Pureblood002]

And he believed them ? Hahahaha

[@raimesey]

She bought a ten year old car that doesn’t seem to have had a battery replacement and expects it to do it’s stated mileage as if it’s new 🤦🏻‍♂️ Everyone knows that batteries degrade over time, assuming she’s the only person in the UK who doesn’t have a smart phone, tablet, portable speaker, Bluetooth earphone etc Anyone who buys an electric really needs to do their homework!

[@FredFox-m9v]

According to the EVangelists and EV shills that is FUD. EV batteries last about three times the life of the car at least. That is if you are stupid enough to believe them, which I was nearly 9 years ago when I bought mine. Now has 42% battery degradation. Never would buy another one ever. More EV propoganda says 99% of previous EV owners would never go back to ice either? yeah right ?

[@Snookbone]

She?

[@JetSetJim]

The first run of the Zoe cars had an official range of ~130-150miles, so the 10 year old car with range of 80 miles is probably a "reasonable" value (I've no idea on range depreciation for car batteries). Note "official" is not "real world", there is a standard test to provide a range value, but this test is not done in real-world test scenarios, just like for ICE mpg figures.

[@FredFox-m9v]

@@raimesey My nearly 9 year old 30 kwhr leaf with only circa 41k miles on it has about 42% degradation. All lithium ion batteries degrade with time and use cycles, whether EVangelists say otherwise or not.

[@sandeepathwal4188]

Every1 knows....that manufacturer's miles R approx. I can't see this goin well 4 the caller!

[@M3UMH]

In all honesty this is the same situation with all cars. I have 2 Tesla’s and they don’t do anywhere near the quoted range. Even when I’ve purchased petrol/diesel cars it’s very unusual that you achieve the MPG they quote. I can’t see how this guy would be able to return on this basis or anyone who buys any car would have the ability to make the same argument.

[@petehayward7478]

Seriously, no way would I buy a 10 year old electric vehicle (old battery technology) and expect it to do anything like the original mileage. The minute you use your lights, heating, fan, radio,key fob,wipers and or washers, interior lights the range would diminish considerably. The original mileage figures are based on perfect driving conditions with no load on the battery apart from the main drive engine. Oh and one more thing if there is more than one person or a weight load of any sort it will further reduce said expectancy.

[@paulwenderling4168]

Range really drops in the cold weather on electric cars

[@chrishart8548]

I lose around 100 miles off the range when it's really cold.

[@alexchamberlain9317]

​@chrishart8548 Wow, what car do you have I lose barely any in the cold as my battery is insulated.

[@paulcollyer801]

I have not entertained an ev because of lack of range, even Long range (250miles plus) isn’t great for me. I regularly have round trips of over 100, no way of having a charger at home (Housing Association wont even allow CCTV, so a charging point will be a nightmare to get), and medium charges are barely cheaper than petrol, and to get a full from 20% on a fast charge takes 60mins (range 200) out of my day. (I had one as a loaner while my old car was in for repair.) A Tesla has a good range and superfast chargers but still not a great option (a friend has one). Life’s about to get real difficult when they stop selling ICE cars.

[@chrishart8548]

Strange thing is the tesla charges really fast if it's down. To 5% it will charge to 80% in around 20mins. That's on a 250kw unit. It acutely charges at a lower speed if you start at 20%

[@Toise_Online]

There's an audio issue with this video, I'm only getting the left channel

[@dap786]

Useful life of the battery is around ten years. Will need replacing. You should also have tested the battery capacity prior to purchasing or asked for the dealer to do that prior to purchasing

[@tomsixsix]

EV battery should do more than 10 years. Current estimates are around 15-20 years based on normal usage.

[@HottyHelen]

Brand new the battery would have had a range of 130 miles. Battery needs replacing.

[@FredFox-m9v]

is that why my battery has 42% degradation before 9 years ?

[@alexchamberlain9317]

​@@FredFox-m9vI'm gonna guess you've got a leaf which has no battery protection, if you look at tesla from 2014 there battery's are still good with 70% left.

[@FredFox-m9v]

All EV's are badly designed they have a battery in them, with a 10'000 cycle lifespan at best. All batteries degrade with time and use cycles. The leaf is probably the worst of them all but they will all come to the same end, the bigger the battery, probably the longer it will last because it uses up less cycles per mileage and there is the cooling aspect on a leaf but in the end they will all suffer the same fate. The act of charging and discharging a battery accelerates the growth of the solid-electrolyte interphase (SEI) layer and lithium plating. This is called cycling-based degradation. The more a battery is charged and discharged, the more it degrades. I also have a 17 year old Mercedes E Class diesel and a 20 year old Mazda MX5, both with the range they were bought with ( the Mercedes 650 miles ). Both working perfectly. There is a massive ongoing difference. One of the few things i have replaced on them is the batteries, several times. There is a theme going on here ? EV's were always trial for me, they failed, never again as many others are doing.

[@marcus.H]

My left ear really enjoyed the show

[@jca111]

I've suddenly gone def in my left ear.

[@theolddog5129]

Have you checked the headphone battery?

[@barrycross8952]

Electric cars optimum driving conditions is different from ICE cars. They have better range in urban driving, lesser on motorway driving. For ICE cars, the momentum at higher speeds keeps the engine turning and reduces fuel requirements, whereas an electric car needs to keep full power on at all times.

[@ivormectin.3046]

All this tells me is EVs sre not worth the effort..time or trouble..

[@chrishart8548]

In some ways they are good in some ways they are bad. I have a diesel and an EV. Diesel has the range but smells really bad when it's running and is also very noisy. Also I had to get some fuel after a year and that was unpleasant standing out in the wind and rain waiting for this fuel with a dirty slippery nossle that I had to put gloves on before I held it. And also the diesel costs around 5x to drive anywhere.

[@sandeepathwal4188]

Same problem with my GTE mark8

[@robdannatt]

The big issue is the over inflation of manufacturer quoted miles per gallon and miles per charge. They all do it. I don't think I've got the range quoted by a manufacturer on any car I've driven. And I drive quite frugally. Some quoted ranges are really wide of the mark and shouldn't be allowed.

[@chrishart8548]

The average speed during the test is 9 mph. The max is 30mph. They claim 72mpg from some diesels 50mpg is good 40mpg is very common.

[@edwardbyard6540]

I'll ring in and say my diesel degrades over time and I'm not getting the horsepower, nor the MPG that it did when it was new. Also the range in a diesel/petrol is affected by temperature, not to mention driving style. Does she have a heavy right foot? As *every* Renault handbook has said since the 1970s, regardless of what's in the tank/battery.

[@Drenwickification]

Well I think you’d be unhappy if your car only had half the horsepower or MPG it was advertised as having straight after you bought it

[@FredFox-m9v]

My 17 year old Mercedes diesel is 17 years old now. Has a range of 650 miles at highway speeds, returning 51 mpg still, which equates to 15 p per mile. My EV is nearly 9 years old, little used, has 42% degradation with a range now of about 60 miles. Guess which one i will never buy again ?

[@michaelgoode9555]

I wonder if people with petrol and diesel cars get the quoted range? Oh, don't bother. They don't but they never ever acknowledge this.

[@karlhulme8014]

But they said EVs are the future !

[@theolddog5129]

A 2014 Zoe will have a small 20kWh battery. When new this was good for around 80 miles in real-life conditions. Assuming the 10-year old car has done 40k to 50k miles, the battery should not have suffered more than 10% degradation. So a 70-mile range would be expected. In the caller's shoes I would carry out a number of range checks driving the car under different conditions. Firstly under ideal conditions - dry, reasonably warm - at a constant 40MPH and note the range when down to say 10% charge remaining. Then do the same under typical winter conditions with headlamps and heater on. I would expect no less than 70 and 55 mile ranges respectively under those conditions. If the range being achieved in considerably less than those numbers then reject the car as not beign fit for purpose.

[@FredFox-m9v]

My 9 year old EV has suffered 42% degradation, with only slightly more than 40 k miles. Don't listen to the propoganda. All lithium ion batteries degrade with a lifespan of around 10'000 cycles or less. The smaller the battery, the more cycles per mile.

[@theolddog5129]

@@FredFox-m9v Did you not consider the possibility that either the battery or its control circuitry may be faulty leading to the degradtion - real or reported? If an ICE powered car delivered high fuel consumption most owners/drivers would suspect a fault. You should assume the same when an EV shows extraordinary behaviour such as exceptionally high battery degradation..

[@FredFox-m9v]

the degredation is real whether you like to believe it or not. Energy consumption is not storage capacity.

[@theolddog5129]

@@FredFox-m9v You may have missed my point. The point being that your sample size of one may represenat a fault condition as opposed to the norm. Did you entertain the possibility that your car is affected by a fault condition or did you just assume that it represents the state of technology?

[@FredFox-m9v]

@theolddog5129 My car represents physics. All lithium ion batteries degrade. Smaller batteries like mine may degrade faster but still illustrate the physics because smaller batteries have more lifetime cycles per given distance covered but the basis behind this physical reality remains constant. All batteries degrade with time and use cycles, which generally give a lifespan of 10'00 cycles in an average time use lifespan in an automobile. This leaves a component which is a large part of the overall cost of the vehicle that ultimately will make it's replacement not financially viable to keep it on the road. This is not the case with a combustion engine, which can be repaired at a none vehicle life limiting cost.

[@dazt66]

Absolutely have no sympathy for this bloke if you don’t do your research and buying any car then you’ll get unexpected results. Although the car that is bought is one of the worst performing out there anyway and doesn’t represent EV in industry in its true value.

[@Commonsense-u1h]

People don't choose the intelligence levels they're born with. It is wrong to take advantage of people

[@m5games180]

Products so useless should never enter production. Complete waste of components to build a car with an 80 mile range.

[@vladimirimp]

It's about time there was regulation requiring manufacturers and dealers to give 'real world' mileage as well as 'test condition' or best case, as they've always done with ICE and now electric cars. Because there's no two ways about it, if you have a 50 mile commute, you need to be able to see the specifications and choose a car that can do that range plus a contingency. Of course conditions affect it, but as consumers we're entitled to numbers that help us choose what's right for us. Perhaps in the case of electric cars they should be tested at 5 degrees, with the heating and lights on?

[@CyclingInKilkenny]

Most don't get anywhere near the advertised range of an ICE, range varies so much based on route and driving style. This is true for ICE and electric. I'd garuntee she was told upto 80miles.

[@vladimirimp]

@ I know all this. Which is why I think they should be compelled to provide an additional figure (or range) based on more realistic conditions. If you go and buy a piece of furniture to fill a 2m space and you find one at 1.8m but when you get it home it’s only 1m… It shouldn’t be guesswork. So keep the metric that the manufacturers like but add to it a ‘real world’ figure that they have to produce under different conditions.

[@XENUGOLFCLUB]

A 50 mile range is plenty of miles to travel from one charging point to another.

[@sandeepathwal4188]

Yep... I got told I'd get 40miles, I get actual 25miles. GTE mark8

[@anon6361]

First comment. I have no comment.

[@BionicRusty]

Seconded. 🤭

[@theolddog5129]

Respect. If only the anti-EV brigade followed your approach, the world of motoring would be a more knowledge driven space. As it is, they just cannot help but point out that EV's have limited range etc. when over 95+ of car journeys in the UK are under 10 miles!