Should the Rage Effect return?

[@PepperKoi]

"I've always had strong opinions" "there are positives and negatives, but overall it's not bad"

[@michaelj9153]

“It depends”

[@user-dj6lj1dl1c]

I got scared because I thought there was an update

[@Mike_416]

Me too lol. "IT GOT TAKEN OUT!?!!"

[@BearGurz]

I was like how long has it been gone like it's already been taken out

[@toonstink9448]

:eyes: right?

[@mexicanmuslim]

:eyes: Same

[@weluvgabe]

:eyes: I hardly play Smash anymore so it was even more believable to me

[@JacobGopp]

Hot hot effect.

[@Troy-ry5pp]

HOW DID HE KILL ME AT 10% STUPID HOT HOT EFFECT! >:(

[@tipsybun]

*JIggs vs. Lucario*

[@bball98038]

4:19 Why would you show the most depressing Little Mac loss in existence?

[@4xzx4]

Because rage...

[@mitrimind1027]

Zss is also just a dumb character. Only exists for fan service.

[@bball98038]

Kevin A Only his KO punch. The hitbox on that thing is objectively the most jank thing in Sm4sh. I don't think anyone can convince me otherwise. I had KO punch against a Mewtwo and while he was clinging to the ledge, I was trying to predict his get-up option so I can use the punch on him. I predicted he would just do a neutral get-up but instead he did a get-up roll. I threw out the punch thinking he would do the neutral option. HE ROLLS COMPLETELY BEHIND ME AND THE KO PUNCH LANDED!!!! I'm serious!! The camera went into the slow-mo and I see that even Mewtwo's tail is more than a foot away from Mac's body. He was in no way shape or form touching Mac in the slightest. So yeah. When people talk about how broken characters like Cloud can be, just know you still have Little Mac's KO punch...

[@ToluDude]

Kevin A Little Mac was broken two years ago, for a month after release of the game.

[@starcubey]

meanwhile kirby can crouch under ko punch.

[@TheHiddenPowerDark]

I think rage is something that makes Smash 4, Smash 4. Like how wavedashing makes Melee, Melee. It's something that creates a unique dynamic and meta within that Smash game. So while I like rage in Smash 4, I'm okay if it's removed in Smash 5 in favor of a new mechanic.

[@michaeleanthonyjr]

HiddenPowerDark I think rage is more of a hindrance, than an actually good mechanic. "Unique" doesn't always mean good after all.

[@xdlol9638]

HiddenPowerDark And tripping makes brawl ,brawl

[@zyrus917]

Silver Bean expkain pls

[@koray3774]

I like how it "enables" heavy low tiers. Heavy characters are always in low tier or low-mid tier in every single smash game. In this game though, you can actually still play them and not lose every game you play, because there is no way of winning, like in other smash games. It also depends on the player, if the opponent with max rage can kill you at low percents, you should be really careful to not get hit. Gannon, bowser, etc. all have very unreliable moves; if you get hit, it's your fault. While as you can basically kill them with almost any move, cause they are so high. If you know how to deal with rage, you shoulnd't get affected by it that much, imo. And they make chars playable, so I'd like it in a new smash game.

[@pjbutter8284]

Koralle Heavies in smash 4 definitely have reliable moves. They just benefit from rage because of their weight and kill power and that is dumb. It doesn't "enable" heavies at all, it just gives the player a reward for using a character that lives much longer than average. Dying at 50 because Bowser got a pivot grab on me from a decent length across the stage is frustrating.

[@Vecderg]

Other than the comeback factor/etc, we also have to consider the fact that rage makes combos inconsistent. idk how much top players memorize, but is it really necessary to memorize combo %s based on the opponent's weight, percent, AND your rage? That many numbers makes a ridiculous amount of factors to consider

[@nimroddafny7125]

I agree. Rage would be perfect if it started at 100% where only one change would be taken into account while it would still benefit heavyweights.

[@VivioSaf]

First comment that I can agree (Most of people talk like they're salty for someone using the mechanic against them). I like Smash over others fighters because it forces the player to consider more than just muscle memory. But I can agree that adding ones Rage over the Opponents percentage to decide your actions can be overwhelming.

[@flygonpincher4493]

I think rage should activate at varying levels of percent, for each character, this would make it a bit easier for the lightweights.

[@Evello37]

Flygon Pincher Do lightweights need that buff? Sure, you'd be buffing Jigglypuff and Kirby, but you'd also be buffing people like Sheik.

[@flygonpincher4493]

Evello37 True, hopefully the problem of rage balance can be adjusted, based on more than just weight tiers, maybe centered more to individual character rage percentage activation.

[@dsr95]

its not like she has easy kill confirms

[@Manganization]

I personally believe Rage isn't the problem Jigglypuff has, or even a problem at all. It's her character itself. Her moveset in this game fares a lot poorly compared to her glory days of Smash 64 and particularly Melee. Smash 4 is the worst rendition of her, after all. So instead of adjusting Rage, which I believe is a very cheap way of dealing with multiple character flaws, I prefer they buff the character themselves.

[@pnyhmsmx]

Eunro jiggly won't be getting a buff anytime as soon as long balancing for ffa and 1 v 1 are aren't treated separately

[@Koishi97]

Anytime MySmashCorner uploads makes my day a lot better.

[@Koishi97]

Carlos Montenegro Sure

[@moki4895]

Carlos Montenegro Thirsty my nigga 😂

[@nightwingmix1]

Seiko & Pie Did they delete their comment?

[@Koishi97]

ssbbmaster12345 Yup

[@XInfetuousX]

Rage to Smash Bros is what items are to Mario Kart. You fell behind so now you get this awesome boost that’ll make up for your mistakes. Only difference is if you manage to kill them in smash you can keep your broken “item” and wale on them some more on the next life. Just like items, rage is bad for competitive play. People say it makes the matches more exciting but so often it does exactly the opposite. It's not exciting when a player who wins neutral 7 out of 10 times gets killed because their enraged opponent makes one good read. It feels cheap and undeserved. Matches in other games were plenty exciting without an extra “comeback” mechanic. And the comebacks were more exciting because they didn’t involve rage.

[@nicoleorion8109]

Don't Read My Profile Picture Actually, Smash 4 specifically is a party game. The fandom made it competitive. Both Mario Kart and Smash 4 can be play competitively and for fun.

[@arturozavala4315]

2:49 Melee mode activated

[@gatorssbm]

I am a triggered and Im Sm4sh fan.

[@arturozavala4315]

I am a Sm4sh fan too xD

[@calebrong]

LMAO ik its kinda a stereotype but this comment is kinda gold

[@marioramonlopezmejia4166]

Your comment gives me a spanish sensation

[@sanfransiscon]

Not enough glitches to be Melee

[@drspaghetti4517]

I'm not a big fan of the rage mechanic and it makes me prefer watching Smash 4 rather than playing it seriously myself. I would at least like to see it toned down if not removed entirely. I've always seen it as sort of a cheesy gimmick. It's like when someone picks DK and loses a ton of exchanges and gets outplayed the majority of the match but still wins because cargo throw up air kills insanely early if affected by rage. It just seems too jank for me, but that could easily just be me not playing around the mechanic.

[@Lucas-vu8jt]

DRSpaghetti without rage, heavy mains would just have one more thing stacked against them, and as a heavy main, we don’t need anything else stacked against us

[@StarlightMagician]

Maybe make it so that only single hit moves with high knockback benefit from it. Multihitting moves where only the initial hit has high knockback (i.e Most multihitting up-B's) should not benefit from it or only make the final hit of said Multi-hitting move unable to be DI'd (With the obvious exception of characters like Bayo of course).

[@thesaxiest4480]

Yeah... Dk is kind of a bad example because rage makes him and other heavies viable. Combining it with their powerful moves makes the size of their hurtbox more than just a weakness. It adds this weird factor that doesn't entirely make up for the damage heavies receive but makes it less disadvantageous. The previous mechanics made heavies weaker than in this game. And as a ganon main who arguably has the strongest attacks for the most part, rage does not really make the game easier for me. My moves are mostly powerful without it and its not like their weakness is eliminated by it. If rage made moves faster, then it would be broken

[@DunCakes]

I'd rather see the game balanced that those characters wont NEED a cheesy gimmick

[@vn1834]

*_"if your profile picture has anime in it, your opinion does not count."_*

[@vicctretamaj]

Rage doesn't benefit all character equally, which sucks, but it does help heavies a lot which is a good thing. However, rage also effects SetKnockback moves which can lead to some inconsistencies. Maybe rage would be better if it helped in smaller amounts? 15% is huge, but 5% difference also helps but not as much. Lowering rages KB changes would also help combos link more consistently and possibly lower the jank values in smash 4. Being a Kirby main, rage does effect throw combos and also can help/hinder true combos like down air to down smash. It only really bothers me when facing lucario or getting hit by a rage MARIO up smash...ugh...

[@alexduran9666]

yeah it might be better up to 5%

[@renejotas]

Vicctre Tamaj i think combos shouldnt be consistent, just pay attention to 1.6 bayo, everyone was pissed because her combo killed and was "impossible" to di(lol scrub), making the combos inconsistent, adds more skill for those who are aware of the numbers.

[@ConductorElcrest]

Jonhyfun the only problem with what you said though, is the fact that Bayo was a heavy, heavy combo character. With Ryu, Luigi, etc... we already had a pretty good combo characters, but Bayo being able to start a combo from 0 that would kill you seemed a bit over the top. Personally I haven't had much trouble with a Bayo myself, but the fact she could do that was a bit worrying. Of course if you're good enough with any character it's possible to kill someone off of one combo, but that takes a lot of effort, even for Bayo now it's actually a bit harder

[@crustyasstimbs8532]

Vicctre Tamaj i play game and watch and have that same problem. Except he doesn't have kill confirms besides down throw to up air which only works on fox I'm pretty sure.

[@gatorssbm]

It should return just be toned down by like 40% looking back on this idea I hate rage now, heck.

[@roman3mp1r39]

YoshiGator was thinking the same thing

[@ShirmaAkayaku]

Having rage start at higher percents would also tone down Lucario's crazy-early kill potential, so I'm okay with this. Plus, heavyweights still benefit because they'll usually be combo'ed into really high percents anyways.

[@FiveStringC]

yah its a lil ridiculous when i can just up throw and get a kill off one airdoge read as bowser when im in the 40s and they're at like 60 depending on the stage

[@mexicanmuslim]

YoshiGator So you mean rage should start at 75% ? Or End 40% Earlier. Or what?

[@gatorssbm]

More along the lines that at full rage it shouldnt be 15% increase instead 9% percent increase, basically take the default formula but decrease the number by 40%

[@RadishAcceptable]

I like it, but I'd like it if it were tweaked a bit. Max rage should have a bit smaller of an effect and different characters should reach max rage at different percents, namely light characters should maybe reach max rage sooner than heavies.

[@angelogaminde8760]

You should watch Core-A Gaming's Closing the Skill Gap vid. It talks about fighting games' tendency towards the comeback, making the games more focused on the viewer than the player, and also makes the comeback meaningless in its frequency.

[@rtg_onefourtwoeightfiveseven]

He touched upon this, didn't he? Rage helps a comeback in a last-stock situation, but makes a comeback only more difficult in terms of who gets the first stock off. That's the push-and-pull effect he discussed, and rage both enables and hinders comebacks.

[@starcubey]

Isnt it all about the new viewers though? There is pleanty to look at for those that have watched enough to see several comebacks

[@littlebighead15]

Angelo Gaminde love this comment. Games aren't made for the player anymore. They're made to sell. People don't release good, balanced games that don't need work. They release have finished piles of dog shit. I miss what gaming used to be.

[@starcubey]

Half finished??? The only reason wavedashing was removed and rage was added was to make the game more accessible and interesting to beginners or players with a large skill gap. The balancing and the polish however, is as you would expect from Nintendo.

[@mysmashcorner]

I actually just watched it recently, and he made some really good points that tie in what I talked about in this video.

[@DaaimKhanPlayz]

DUDE I LOVE YOUR CHANNEL. I'm trash at smash and your explaining makes concepts in the game so easy to understand for a filthy casual like me. On top of that, your voice is so soothing to listen to. Your opinions are very rational and have solid reasoning behind them, you also take into account the opposing sides to the issue and I love when people do that. Keep it up!

[@GhostbusterPalu]

Not gonna lie, I'd like to see rage come back in a future Smash game, if there will be one. However, I think the mechanic often benefits heavyweights/characters with amazing advantage states a lot when it shouldn't, and hinders characters with disadvantage states and slow mobility and/or frame data a lot. Take Bowser who, for example, while he does have an uphill battle, his disadvantage state is a lot more forgiving than in the past because he now has speed and better options, plus he has combos when he clearly shouldn't have them, knowing his archtype, and his combos benefit a lot from rage rather than being hindered, alongside his entire moveset benefitting from it, too. Then take Palutena, whose weight is on the verge of being considered a lightweight but, due to her very slow frame data overall, poor hitbox placements and her main combo starter's high base knockback, is among the characters to get hindered by it more than what it benefits from, despite having some powerful moves. I'd also like to point out certain moves have way too high base knockback, such as the first hit of both Peach's Parasol and Bayonetta's Witch Twist. When their rage level is very high, they can often inflict sufficient knockback to OHKO, suddenly turning the tide of a match from a heavy disadvantage to an instant win. Overall, I like the comeback factor it can sometimes bring, but if any, they should nerf it moderately so that it isn't as much of an issue as it is in Smash 4 for many people. My best view from it would be by nerfing the maximum multiplier from 1.15x knockback to 1.1x, and make it start at 50% rather than 35%, but it's just my opinion anyways so.

[@stevenliang3213]

You got your wish. Smash Ultimate's rage returns but it has been toned down.

[@InTheGameKiah]

IMO, Rage wouldn't be a bad thing to come back. The thing about rage is that it becomes more of a factor the less stocks/time in the match, as there's less ground to be lost or gained from the mechanic. If Smash 4 had 5 stocks, It wouldn't matter that much as the mechanic would smooth things out in the long run. But, with short 2 stock matches, it becomes possible to beat your opponent at high % and then abuse rage to kill stupidly early without truly outplaying your opponent. At even just 3 stocks, this evens out. Meaning that one player who is ahead can abuse rage early the next stock, then the other player gets a chance, provided he is not 3-stocked.

[@TheOtherWhiteNerd]

That sounds less like a problem with rage, and more like a problem with the tournament rules. I'm fairly neutral on rage, personally, so I'm not necessarily arguing for it to remain or be removed. Would you have a problem if for Smash Versus (or whatever it's called) the tournaments were structured into 3 or 4 stock matches with Rage?

[@Quiqueleal85]

it's not only tournament but also for glory standards... I would love to see 3stocks as a standard (Rage) but smash4 is a different game in a competitive level. zoning or out footsing is more prevalent here than other Smash games cause players tend to make safer approaches which usually tend to drag the match. it would be unhealthy for the tournaments to add an extra stock but it would be more of a fair fight IMO.

[@apocalypseap]

+TheOtherWhiteNerd Matches would go too long.

[@InTheGameKiah]

I think Rage should be an option to turn on or off. That could solve a lot of problems.

[@TheOtherWhiteNerd]

Okay, so what if they made Smash V a faster game with rage? That way we still get rage to "even out", but the matches don't drag.

[@famd4962]

literally the earliest I've ever been to anything. Never saw No Views before

[@SunderCR]

Great example of rage being game-changing is at Port Priority during Winners Quarters. The match was Pyreeze (Samus) vs. Elegant (Luigi). In the Bo5, they took it to the last round and Pyreeze ended up getting the final KO with a dash attack into Up+B. Elegant only had 8% when the dash attack landed, and 15% when the Up+B connected. Pyreeze was rocking well above 150% and because of rage it only took one solid read to take a nearly damage-less Luigi to death with two moves. Great video as always. I agree with you that I don't think rage is inherently a bad thing, and that it only adds another layer of depth to the fight. It's a very deep and difficult-to-learn layer, that's true, but it's still just another layer. If anything it makes the game that much more impressive to witness at a high level. For anybody that wants to see the match I referenced, here's the Twitch clip of the final stock: clips.twitch.tv/MushyClumsyPizzaLitFam

[@garretschinkel2740]

rage is good. I main lucario. XD

[@Troy-ry5pp]

bruh

[@KaninDev1]

rage =\= Aura

[@MagicPandemonium]

Garret Schinkel same

[@alexhollingsworth3444]

Garret Schinkel same

[@speedylemonplays7349]

yay other Lucario mains

[@enzantakeshita8838]

I don't believe that Rage should return. While it's better done than Tripping, Rage is still at the end of the day a mechanic implemented to take some skill requirement away from the game. I get that they're trying to make the game more accessible to a wider audience by narrowing the skill gap, but it's still absolutely obnoxious that you can play nearly perfectly for a stock and a half and then lose both of yours to an enraged opponent's F-Smash at 30% because you couldn't get that last kill.

[@stormycd392]

Enzan Takeshita K, hold up there fam. Getting killed at 30% only happens in a few rare instances. Such as Lucario at 150%, Rosaluma's up air, and Mario's Up-B reverse. It is not nearly as game breaking as you're making it sound.

[@aeronine6977]

getting killed at 30 should never happen, period. the only excepion to that i can think of is rest, and in sm4sh it kills at like 60

[@demolitiongod64]

+Aero Nine what about ganons uptilt or warlock punch those should kill at 30

[@TheRealPunkachu]

Rage doesn't take skill away from the game. You can die from one to two exchanges in Melee due to the game's edgeguard mechanics, and I don't see anyone complaining about that. Rage rewards players for koing their opponents early on in the stock and encourages them to make reads rather than playing it safe.

[@1001011011010]

The real question is why should someone be falling into random f smashes in the first place?

[@chorosso5259]

I feel like people keep forgetting a simple fact about rage, it isn't rewarding you for getting beaten up it's rewarding you for getting beaten up and still managing to get a hit. If someone is at 100% and you still haven't knocked them out you are doing something wrong.

[@danieldavid3766]

Exactly

[@apocalypseap]

Rage has positives, but the negatives outweigh the positives.

[@Gio-qu7qe]

Put rage as an option and allow adjusting of rage effects and other factors of rage as an option. Bam! problem solved.

[@edwardchen3411]

I feel like the rage effect can sometimes ruin the consistency of competitive smash. As a spectator, i personally love watching how the rage effect can manipulate tense and high stake matches. It sometimes allows the underdog to be the victor, such as how Locus beat Mr.R at Zero Saga. However, i think it can be super stressful on the perspective of someone who is competing. I also dont really like the fact how some characters can take a better advantage of it. So if rage were to return, i would like the mechanic to work in a way in which characters can benefit equally from it.

[@Suresh_Is_Fresh]

Rage is okay until you account for kill confirms that already kill early like Bowser/DK's up-throw up-airs or Ryu's Shoryuken. Also multi-hit up-b's kill unreasonably early with rage if you don't get hit by the final hit.

[@GameHopperME]

Hey MSC you should make a video on how you could use whispy from dreamland. In melee you could use him to make some throw confirms that would normally depend on DI. Also you should see if there is a timer on whispy. I think a video on this might be enough to change the rule set on battlefield and dreamland being the same stage. Hope you read this comment. Keep up the good work.

[@BurningT]

The mechanic itself is fine they just need to bump the formula down. I wonder if hampering it down to max. 10% knockback increase is fair?

[@medicineman5344]

I say rage should comeback but nerfed.

[@marinanicole5693]

That's exactly what happened

[@twerdeffan1080]

Elia, forse What's the rough formula in ssbu?

[@ZEROthefirst]

I say just take rage away from Lucario and possibly change the affects to each individual character slightly... aside from again Lucario. He doesn't need rage stacked on top of aura, it's ridiculous getting killed at 30% and earlier, especially when they're behind a stock specifically because the aura becomes even more ridiculous with rage. Lucario specifically should have one or the other, or no aura and tweak his moves and frame data accordingly so you don't have to basically lose, to win.

[@sissylonglegsd207]

ZEROthefirst Most if not all the characters have ways to kill Lucario before he gets high aurrage.

[@Draggzilla]

“Very low risk, but very high reward” is smash ultimate

[@LxZLink]

That was a very well-constructed video. I agree with all the points you make. It truly helps the bigger/slower chars in this game. The issues with lighter weights should be fixed on the characters directly. Where, as you said, fox and mewtwo can kill just fine without. Rage makes everything more balanced, and adds an uprecedented factor of excitment both on the player and spectator point of view.

[@Ernireg3]

I like rage! It makes comebacks more likely and it forces players to be aware of what connects and what doesn't in those circumstances. Also it creates amazingly tense moments!

[@apocalypseap]

If a moment needs rage to be intense, it was never intense in the first place.

[@PHYTO18432]

agreed- and similarly if a moment needs skill to be intense, it was never intense in the first place. intense moments shouldn't have any other adjectives or circumstances attached to them.

[@2supermaro]

Ernireg3 That's stupid though. It favors the worse player when rage is a big factor, like characters like ZSS who I play, it's stupid how we can kill you off the top at 30%.

[@CobalionRider]

In competitive games, intense moments do need skill, because otherwise it wouldn't be a competitive game. Or is the point you were making: "smash is a children's party game" ?

[@PHYTO18432]

my point is that there are no prerequisites or non-factors to making a moment intense. so long as the audience knows what is at stake and how the moment can come to a close. take sudden death for example- absolutely no skill involved, but it is always intense whether youre a veteran or new player.

[@Mangosjoraa]

Yeah!! Thanks msc, a new video!, your only talking about rage, but you explain all the other game changing mechanics, but also give interesting examples

[@ninja_0359]

I think it should be kept in. As you said yourself, it keeps the players on their toes and in a fighting game you need to always be on your toes

[@sephroark]

of course that's coming from Marth

[@CrunchySammich]

footsies

[@Badkitty239]

FOOTSIES LOL

[@Nate1010]

I think it's an interesting mechanic that adds another layer of complexity to the game. And it's fun too I'd prefer to see it return in future titles

[@YamiZee]

I don't like rage because it takes away from the neutrality of a situation.

[@YamiZee]

If a player is winning, they should be winning, not make the opponent more likely to knock you out.

[@starcubey]

It still doesnt keep a player from winning while they are winning, but rather changes the pace of the game under certain situations.

[@darrinbailey4966]

SugarCube in other words it keeps the dominating player from winning and losing player at an advantage.

[@danieldavid3766]

@@darrinbailey4966 Rage punishes someone for racking up someone's damage too high and not killing them already. That's how I see it.

[@tobi1557]

Rage is good because heavies needs help. Rage is bad because it enables very early kills on some combo characters (Zss, Bayo, Mario).

[@StrawHatPuffy]

Is there an alternative to rage other than just having no rage? Edit: Personally, having rage can make the game more exciting since neither player is safe even though one is over 100%. I understand that you can get jank kills with rage, but it hypes the game for me

[@michaeleanthonyjr]

Straw Hat Puffy That's kind of a flawed mentality that I see a lot of in Smash4. The hype of a game shouldn't come at the expense of consistency in gameplay and jank. Hype in competitive games should come from that moment a player pulls off a moment 37, not an up air string accompanied by a rage assisted kill. Personally I would rather have more consistency and well designed mechanics, than jank that comes as a result of mechanics that weren't that well thought out or playtested. But that's just me.

[@FiveStringC]

yah but rage makes u play like daigo had to even when u r wining it forces u to not get sloppy to respect your opponents hit box's and attack accordingly i wont lie getting up bd by a charizard out of shield is annoying but i feel like if i had played the situation better i would've won its like Isai said just don't get hit now youre going to get hit but i always strive to be at my best and never play below that if i get punished by a worse player than i shouldn't have won in the 1st place now i suppose that its not the same for you and that's fine in fact that's kinda the beauty of having multiple smash games all played in the same era its not an mentality issue just a difference

[@michaeleanthonyjr]

The better player deserves to win, I understand playing while being on your feet and not underestimating your opponent, but you don't need a stupid gimmick that just overall makes the game more inconsistent to play to make a comeback. If a player starts playing better, then they deserve to make a comeback. But if a player just manages to win by landing an attack that wouldn't have otherwise killed without the assistance of some gimmick mechanic that nobody has control over, then it's just bad game design. I think what could easily be done to fix rage as a comeback mechanic would be to make it like the Super meters in Street Fighter, where you wrack up a rage bar that you could activate at anytime, but it has a limited duration and can only be used once per stock and the more damage you take (up to a certain limit), the more powerful your rage becomes. This would be an easy way to make it so that comebacks are more earned by players prompting an opportunity for them to make a comeback that requires careful use of a limited ability. Instead it just lasts until they die and causes inconsistency in character combos.

[@CobalionRider]

Rage doesn't make you play like how daigo did in moment 37, regardless of whether you're ahead or behind. Because of the game mechanics, you can't have a moment remotely similar to moment 37 in any smash game (not shit talking, I'm primarily a smash fan. I just mean that our defensive techniques aren't as difficult, or as hype. Let's say getting a tech is about as difficult as one parry from that moment, so even if you land the same number it's less hype because it happened a lot slower and was less technically demanding overall). The closest you can get would be game 4, or the Amsah at ROS3. You can't have a similar moment in smash 4 BECAUSE of the rage, because rage exists the comeback potential is always present (if not noted). Watch the Core A Gaming video on the skill gap, making game mechanics to make these feats easier to pull off makes them mean less. I don't think a comeback mechanic is inherently and always bad, but A. it adds inconsistency to the game, B. takes away some of the hype following a comeback to some players/spectators, and C. winning with rage, or winning against rage, does not make you daigo.

[@michaeleanthonyjr]

I think comeback mechanics are fine and all, I just think there should be more of a skill factor involved than a jank and babying factor. It's like if in a 2 mile run, the person in dead last gets to be driven up to the front of the group to start running with 1st place to give him a chance to comeback into the race. Which is how rage essentially works. Rewarded for playing worse than your opponent. Which is incompetent game design.

[@vijayhans26]

Honestly, with Rage should come a move like Confidence, which allows a player who's racked up more hits to play with a little more power, simulating confidence. This will effectively even out the game and give two possible strategies to go with: take or deal.

[@KodakKid33]

I do think rage is a cool mechanic, especially since it can help heavies, but I think it is definitely overpowered currently due to how unbalanced it can make the game. I'd be fine with it returning if it's toned down a good amount, and if they fix the broken 1 hit ko multi hit moves like Peach's parasol, samus screw attack, zss boost kick, mario up B, etc.

[@Yeldibus]

LOVE the measured opinion and presentation. It really shows the difference between MSC and many other smash youtube channels.

[@YourAverageLink]

I think rage should be in smash 5, but with faster scaling for lighter characters. Bowser can have the current rage scaling and everyone else has the scaling effect skewed based on weight. I even made a formula: 150*(character x's weight)/130 (Bowser's weight) = Max percent. (round down) Eg: Jigglypuff's max percent is now 78. The minimum percent is still 35.

[@CH-bd6jg]

okay, that's an idea that sounds nice, until you start looking at the math. Luma is stupid broken at high rage, but that's okay, rosalina should be dead at max rage. your idea gives max rage to rosaluma at 88%. does dabuz usually die by 88%? what about Larry Lurr? fox gets it at 90%, and Nairo's Zss gets it just after that. three top tiers, all getting max rage before 100%. it's nice to give puff early rage because she's light, but you have to remember those three as well, since all three characters are featherweights.

[@doman2725]

Christian Higginson and mewtwo

[@YourAverageLink]

Christian Higginson Ah, true. Well Sakurai probably doesn't make games based on tier lists. So, possibly change the formula to not a linear percent of bowser's weight. Maybe make 1% lower of bowser's weight only .5% of the rage limit? Ex: 300*(character x's rage)/130. Wait, that doesn't work. How about 150*(weight)/113? If the result it higher (for charizard, dedede, dk, and bowser, set it to 150. This would make jiggs' max rage now 104%.

[@YourAverageLink]

This new formula (see above reply) makes rosaluma max at 118, fox at 121, and zss at 123.

[@Zeroforce14]

dang, that Tekken reference at the end was awesome!!

[@AkiraYanky]

Rage it's stupid , it doesn't feel as rewarding when u are winning because the losing opponent that is at 120% and is one hit away from losing can comeback and kill u at 60% .

[@zario12]

Maybe it seems stupid because of how you consider somebody "losing" in Smash. I wouldn't say somebody at high percent is losing, just at a disadvantage

[@Manganization]

I have never felt that way about the Rage mechanic. It's interesting to see so many people in the comment section sharing your views.

[@blackpants7385]

YankyMK The effect is not that pronounced. The 120% chatacter is still at disadvantage.

[@Kerenthar]

It is actually rewarding because the game force you to keep Rage in consideration and finish your opponents properly and keeping responding to recovery attempts. Making comebacks possible is good, after all, your opponents must do the same with you

[@voltekka47]

YankyMK If you have alead, just play defensively and avoid whatever kill moves your opponent tries to do.

[@DatMrKid]

i have been playing smash 4 on my ds for almost a year now and i know i was late to the game :( :'( but i did not know this about the game! thank you for making this video!! i understand now why the character was flashing! Never thought it had an effect! like i assumed it was a visual cue for someone to know when there characters are at kill percent, that was my best guess anyway, you got yourself a sub :) and bout to smash that like button ;)

[@blakecollins9494]

players shouldn't be rewarded for getting hit

[@akeemtaylor8375]

Blake Collins aside from mario kart

[@Pyrobaconstudios]

Agreed.

[@timboneiod1780]

I’m gonna make comparisons to melee, with ledge hogging and chain grabs. I think that rage is just as fair as chain grabs

[@Pyrobaconstudios]

But nobody likes chain grabs, they just tolerate them and i fail to see the comparison with ledge hogging which is.. the exact opposite of rage, punishing the opponent for their mistake rather than rewarding them for getting hit.

[@porygonlover322]

It's not a pure reward since it also tends to ruin combos

[@pyr666]

rage should be a character attribute, not a flat game-wide mechanic. that way, degenerate interactions can be more readily controlled, and character's unique, well, character can be expressed. a light, floaty character that gets rage early has both a mechanical identity and matches the personality of jigglypuff. many boss characters (who tend to be heavy) have second forms that the rage mechanic can thematically represent. conversely, many characters are renowned for being calm in the face of danger, and they could be given little or no rage mechanic at all. by making it an individual value, you could even implement negative rage. a character that is strong at low percents but losses power as they get damaged would create a lot of design space for a zoning character.

[@AxelAlexK]

It needs to stay. Some of the janky downsides can suck at times, but overall it makes for a much more complicated and in depth fighter as you explained. Pros outweigh the Cons IMO.

[@crustyasstimbs8532]

Axel's DDO Channel just buff the lighter characters like game and watch and puff and I have no problem. But right now, it's really problematic and unfair at times.

[@67kingdedede]

What good does rage do for the game

[@AxelAlexK]

+Bairhug watch the video

[@67kingdedede]

Axel's DDO Channel I have, and even then i dont think it really does anything to justify being there

[@Buglin_Burger7878]

Considering the character's surviviability determines if they have a benefit from rage, along with the strength of their kill moves a lot would have to be reworked for that to be the case. As is, it only benefits those who naturally survive, while those that don't are punished and are left at the receiving end, while manageable in competitive if you're skilled, this game is not just competitive. An large part of the community is casual, which makes a mechanic like this horrible for them negating every benefit in a matter of seconds. Lucario being called OP is because for casual players, this mechanic kicks into overdrive, similar to if you played against someone who liked Bowser and used him for fun. The rage would give them a clean advantage not from any form of skill, but sheer luck that he has high survivability. This community is far from only competitive, it is equal if not in favor of casual.

[@MedK001]

I'm fine with its return. But I think rage should start at 60% or something. It also should increase knockback by 10% instead of 15%. This, along with some characters reaching their max rage sooner/later would make the game more gimmicky and fun imo.

[@TheWoebegoneJackal]

Honestly I believe rage should be regulated to a character-specific mechanic, much like Aura. Not every character should be rewarded so much for surviving so long. Besides Lucario, it really should be a super heavyweight mechanic only, it keeps them in some ways viable while not giving fast combo characters like ZSS or Mario the same advantage while also being overall better characters.

[@Limomon]

What they have to do to balance rage among the characters is planning it in. Like, planning it to be a factor for some characters more so than others, but keeping in mind that the characters that can't profit too heavily off of rage have to balance this weakness somewhere else. Like adjusting it so that (for example) fast characters don't profit much from rage but have the big advantage of being fast, while slower characters (which are mostly lower tiers) profit from it more than others.

[@YacubCubby13579ZR]

The Little Mac example in the beginning is kind of bad since it's a sourspot vs a sweetspot. Either way, nice video :]

[@Programme021]

I was wondering why one dealt 22 and the other dealt 16, because rage shouldn't affect damage dealt. Thx for pointing it out, I was swondering about this

[@gilley._]

Congrats on 160,000 subscribers!!!

[@jcntm4396]

The thumbnail says Rage Efffct lol. *PLZ FIX IT*

[@NoUnboundFreedom]

My main problem with rage is it rewards you for being in a disadvantageous situation, or by being outplayed. One person has a 70% lead on the and dies far sooner as punishment via the rage effect. It allows the better player to lose more often and I think that's usually a bad outcome

[@corwinoberwemmer5986]

welp its back

[@tvhabenthehero4649]

@@Mm17297 how?

[@T1J]

rage is like xfactor in Marvel. at lower levels it's frustrating and seems useless because players aren't paying attention to it and don't know how to play around it. but at high level it's just another layer of depth to the game that people have to take into account.

[@anthonyivery9411]

The rage effect should NOT return. It significantly increases the chances of making a comeback, which is completely unnecessary. I believe comebacks should require effort and skill, NOT from a mechanic that makes killing easier. Rage is VERY gimmicky/a terrible game mechanic and IMHO, not fun to use or work around. It's one of the reasons why I don't enjoy Sm4sh as much as I used to 2 years ago.

[@ameermalick3028]

I think it should return but not as powerful as it is right now.

[@alexduran9666]

Anthony Ivery I would be okay if it does not return, or if it stops at 5% instead of 15%

[@4xzx4]

THANK YOU!

[@lethrys4687]

THIS. Why are so many people promoting rage? It's NOT A GOOD THING.

[@anthonyivery9411]

LiamBros Gaming B/c people are too oblivious to realize that the mechanic is slowly eating away Sm4sh.

[@andypeoples7175]

I think how Ultimate handled it was pretty good

[@Dr3am9553]

How is a comeback mechanic in any competitive fighter a good thing? Its pretty much a screw you from the developers saying that you are too good at this game and should be punished. You hit the other person too much. Now they have an easier time killing you.... How is that fair? Its not. I acknowledge it goes both ways but does it actually go both ways? With a 2 stock format it pretty much makes its so that one person sees the true benefit of rage while the other gets the short end of the stick. If heavies get hit to much give them moves and combos that kill earlier. Don't have some in built mechanic to give them an easier time to combo. Also if my character has no kill confirms vs lucario how is it my fault that i let him live this long. There is no edge hogging. Gimping him is impossible at high %s (up b goes too far) and edgeguarding isn't a guaranteed (none of my moves actually put him in the blastzone but he can pretty much always make it back. Rage is good for one thing and one thing alone: Spectators. It adds to the randomness of the game. It give you rewards for losing. (something no fighter should have) It lets upsets happen. It lets luthie beat Zero and has Void losing to Nairo in multiple game 5 dying to the top blastzone at 50. It lets Luma become the best character in game and creates moves that literally kill at 10. Think of it as X factor or V trigger. Ask any competitive player/top player if they like it. The correct answer is no. It feels like I'm being punished for my skills. And if i use it it's like I didn't earn my win. The developers let me have it. Also another big gripe with Sm4sh game design in general. You can't have a comeback mechanic built in when you make it so hard to end stocks early. Ledge trumping is really what makes rage get out of hand. Like imagine if you could hold ledge vs DK or bowser or even lucario. They wouldn't be nearly as potent as they are.

[@sissylonglegsd207]

hakeembisiolu don’t complain about lucario’s up special. It has a 2 frame hitbox, and 2.5 full seconds of end lag if he lands it wrong.

[@beta511ee4]

Smash isn't exclusively a competitive game.

[@ghoulin9532]

I agree with you about many of the aspects of rage. I enjoy that it gives more power to heavyweights and it adds interesting tension as a player and spectator. One of my problems with rage that you didn't go over was how rage can cause some of your most important setups fail. For instance, when I attempt those jab lock combos you showcased with wario, oftentimes my own rage causes them to go to high for them to work, which can be a bit frustrating

[@DERPYN000B]

I think it should return, but you can turn it on or off in the settings, and make it a bit more balanced. Like if you agree

[@MoonGhostDoodles]

Not only did Rage return in Ultimate. But Kazuya from Tekken joined Smash with a similar mechanic you brought up in the end.

[@Charizard314159]

Please get rid of rage, it punishes players for damaging the opponent.

[@lesh9418]

Charizard314159 no, it punishes being unable to finish the stock. It doesn't punish for hitting the other player, as if the player can get a killing blow they will die.

[@TheLuxma]

Charizard314159 just like increased knockback does, which is the core mechanic of the freaking game

[@Thugzbunyyy]

TheShdow425 so it does punish for hitting the other player then. Take a char like pacman who's whole design forces him to take opponents up to about 130 as an average kill percentage. Only his smashes and overb will kill most people under that. So if he outplays the entirety of the match then loses to a no startup/no lag kill aerial at 90 he was outplayed? Why exactly do you need a shortcut to taking the stock? Shouldn't you take a stock because you've outplayed your opponent? Not because an arbitrary mechanic is in the game.

[@edcellwarrior]

Charizard314159 Please get rid of Lucario, he punishes players for damaging the opponent

[@darrinbailey4966]

Exactly

[@ZackBogucki]

Nice analysis here. I'm pro-rage for several of the reasons you pointed out, but especially for that extra layer it adds to performing combos. It allows for more heat-of-the-moment improvisation rather than two players trying to perform the specific strings that they've labbed out...To me, that's one of Smash's great strengths over more traditional fighting games. As far as balancing rage across different characters, it's definitely something to be aware of, but I don't think all characters should benefit equally. It's great that heavy characters by nature get the most out of it (besides Lucario, whose entire gimmick is being mediocre until he accumulates damage), as it both makes sense thematically and gives a welcome dynamic to the weight class that has always struggled the most to compete. Jiggs would be better if it got more out of rage, sure, but that would just be a weak band-aid fix to the seriously flawed kit she got in this iteration. All in all, I'm all for it. I think the good far outweighs the perceived bad that's scattered throughout the community.

[@raprat8080]

fuck no, it lowers the difficulty gap and favors people for getting their asses beat.

[@starcubey]

It has a push and pull effect so not really. Plus, it makes kill and combo % harder possibly favoring good players.

[@raprat8080]

ILikeSpheres not really. it takes more skill to win more exchanges in neutral and have a consistent punish game than to come back with one easy bake combo because you're able to take advantage of rage. fuck the "push pull" effect, a good player should be able to come back without the help of some retarded mechanic

[@Athorment]

I think Rage should be streamlined further. Starting at 35% feels very random and not what you would expect it to start at. I also think it should instead be a fixed increase rather than a float. What i mean by this is that having rage at 80% is different than having rage at 85%... the change is minuscule, but it's there. Something like it starting at 80% instead would make more sense. That and to consider it a 3 phase mechanic where from 80-100% you have "Rage 1", 100-150% you have "Rage 2" and from 150-Onward you have "Max Rage" will make it easier to lab combos that benefit from a fixed amount of increased knockback.

[@KennyCutout]

I'd prefer it go. I don't think it adds anything to the game that can't be done with simple balance changes.

[@YoshiONE2ONE]

I feel like Bandai Namco nailed the Rage mechanic in Tekken 7. Once its activated, yes it gives you a damage increase, but its not a super large increase (but its noticeable). Also with the addition of Rage Arts and Rage Drives, they add an interesting dynamic to the mechanic. You get a one time use move that does crazy damage if it connects, but once you use it, you lose the Rage effect for the remainder of the round. So if Rage comes back in a future Smash game, I personally think it'd be a neat idea if they did something similar with it. Keep the extra knockback (but tone it down a little bit). Say, you survive up to 150%, only then will Rage take effect. The next Smash Attack you preform will have increased damage/knockback and hitstun, but once you use it, you lose the Rage effect. This would obviously benefit the heavyweights and those with good recoveries, but it could be balanced out by making the Smash Attacks either slow or weak in general (weak like Sheik's, slow like Bowser's). IDK, this is simply how I thought of balancing it without removing it completely. There are games with far worse comeback mechanics (lookin' at you X-Factor...)

[@esper3929]

The hot hot effect

[@Hectoreo]

I've played Sm4sh for the last 2 and a half years and I ONLY NOW find out about this?!

[@raprat8080]

comebacks aren't even hype because rage makes them too easy.

[@ShinyKelp]

Imo, what they should do is that rage doesn't affect set knockback, so that things like ZSS or mario's ladder combos don't become utterly dangereus; the shine spark, etc.

[@Rafikichu]

Rage rewards bad play and punishes good play. Building up damage on your opponent is what you are supposed to do. Doing so successfully without getting damaged back in return is supposed to put you in an advantageous position. Rage often causes it to do the opposite. When "Don't get hit" is the opposite of the successful strategy, there's something wack about your smash game.

[@starcubey]

So if you are at 35% and your opponent is at 150% your opponent always has the advantage right?

[@eragon78]

+Rafikichu Rage benefits good play actually. A bad player would die early to a setup or a gimp where as a good player would recognize how to avoid kill setups and know how to recover to stage. When I play vs most people, its very easy to kill under 80% if they arent very good. They dont usually live long enough to get a good amount of rage. I on the other hand am often quite a bit over 100%, and even hitting max rage [150%] a decent amount too, even vs good players. That is because I know how to hold onto my stock as long as possible to fully use the advantage that Rage gives me allowing me to either extend my lead or to make a comeback.

[@PHYTO18432]

speaking of new mechanics- i really like the equipment effects. mainly speaking about the unharmed/desperate boosts.

[@bonk150]

Rage should stay, but perhaps altered for the better for the disadvantaged lightweights

[@thesaxiest4480]

It would be interesting if rage affected both speed and strength of moves but in opposite ways. Like for instance, at high percents, characters gain speed in their movements and attacks but lose power on them. Or maybe if characters had personalities that led them to receive a fear effect in place of a rage effect if they are a more timid character or a rage effect if they are more aggressive that rebalanced their stats in different ways. Maybe even a calm and focused type of effect for characters that aren't timid but not powerhouses

[@benjoleo]

I actually like it because it gives you another incentive to close out stocks as early as possible with riskier moves, instead of using safe moves over and over until you can kill with a jab

[@wisnoskij]

All these years and I had no idea staling was a thing.

[@DctrBread]

i actually think that without rage, characters like luigi, diddy, and zss would have had a much better reception from the community without rage, possibly diminishing the chance of their ultimate nerfs btw rage is stupid pass it on

[@sircumference9691]

I really love the mechanic it adds so much tension to a match and keeps the game entertaining. It should be a staple from now on if they even make more smash games which i hope the do 😭😭😭😭

[@sprucetree7996]

Rage is an interesting mechanic. I think it should stay

[@Luigiofthegods]

well then

[@wohdasunleashed]

im 2cool4you this was on purpose.... right? not a typo XD

[@xxboixxx420xxxkkkxxx8]

R A P E 7u7

[@DrPepperFan]

eventually someone will get triggered by this lol

[@sprucetree7996]

I'm sorry that wasn't intended

[@fezpez2980]

I'm a little late, but you might want to fix the typo on the thumbnail :)

[@damine_]

i like purple oranges

[@samuelholdsworth1911]

There are two changes to rage that I would make. First off, lighter characters would reach max rage faster - around the characters respective kill percentage And secondly, have rage be stronger in relation to stock count / whoever is losing a timed match. Ex: First stock max rage is 10%, Second stock max rage is 15%.

[@4xzx4]

Rage effect* is NOT a good thing. Before Smash 4 got announced I've never heard anyone say: "Man, I really wish we had a mechanic that makes you stronger the more damage you take!" It's stupid, because it clearly favors the lesser-skilled player. If rage must be a thing, then at least it should be something you can toggle ON/OFF, so we don't get forced to play with a dumb mechanic (dumber than tripping for instance - that says A LOT). Those who wants to play with it can do so, while those who don't want to play with it can just turn it off. (Just like with items.) *(Clarification: Lucario's Aura is a character mechanic and not an overall mechanic to the game. What I'm meaning is that Aura is perfectly fine.) Rage isn't necessary. It isn't fair, it isn't balanced, it isn't etc. One thing you forgot to mention is that characters that are safe and hard to touch (like Sheik and Diddy Kong) also benefits from rage, since they will keep on having it, powering up their kill moves in the end. People also say all the time how heavies benefits from rage. While it's true to some extent, never forget that rage makes them easier to kill as well, "reducing" their weight. In the end, it (mostly) favors those that can keep rage intact, like Sheik and Rosalina for example. If you haven't realized it yet (lol), I would do everything for them to not bring back this unfair and dumb mechanic for the next installment of the Smash series. Tripping is more fair than rage because at least tripping screws up all the characters almost equally while rage only favors a set group of characters. Rage also destroys PAC-MAN, Duck Hunt Duo, Jigglypuff, Mii Gunner and Mr. Game & Watch (to some extent), which is sad and unfair. Remove rage effect and bring back ledge gimping.

[@lethrys4687]

This comment. Whether rage should stay or not should not even be a discussion.

[@starcubey]

note that how rage affects tier placement is irrelivent when compared to how it affects the gameplay. Also, taking damage on purpose to build up rage would be an interesing mechanic, but unfortunately, no one will ever use it because it doesn't work in practice.

[@bartymatrix7]

This comment was well structured and valid until you had character bias in the end. Sad.

[@coolguyc4sey]

Pinkerton Hes right though. All those characters get completely destroyed by it, while not benefiting enough from it.

[@mariogamer2102]

As well thought out your opinion was, no way i would prefer tripping it is random and can screw you over in high percentages.

[@ChouRaiyuki]

Personally I like it just for adding another layer and making the game more dynamic. It's a mixed bag. One thing you didn't really touch on is that while for some combo heavy characters it's a big plus like Mario (see Zenyou two stocking people because he's at rage and zero to deaths them) on the whole it actually weakens combos a bit. While the player who loses the stock first has less kill power the flipside is that the player who still has rage built up has a lower range of percents that their combo will work on. As a Peach player for instance I can usually rely on downthrow to f-tilt up to around 15 or so percent (less certain on that one) and from there to 40 or so % with downthrow back air. With rage downthrow f tilt becomes limited to even early percents and a lot of characters will stop taking downthrow back air closer to 30%. What this ultimately means is that despite being ahead the player typically won't rack up percent quite as easily which limits the ease with which "extra credit" can be gained. IIRC Shiek is notorious for having a difficulty killing at higher percents; If she has rage it's more difficult to combo the opponent. A friend of mine provided another interesting example; he has a good feel of when as Falcon he can downthrow to knee and knows that at 40% with no rage he can practically KO Mewtwo with it. Thus after taking the first stock and getting his opponent Mewtwo to 50 he sded to lose his rage (and supposedly an in bracket example exists of some known DK sding to confirm a "ding dong"). This combined with what you mentioned makes rage a very dynamic mechanic.

[@ApertureBlack]

Rage is a terrible mechanic, you should never reward people for getting hit in a meterless fighter.

[@CanisInfernus]

I personally like the rage mechanic because: - It provides an actual tangible benefit to playing a heavy character, so you aren't just combo food - It rewards you for good DI and avoiding enemy killmoves to prolong your stock - It makes a good incentive to go for risky plays and get early kills (i.e. stocks and edgeguards) Essentially I like that it adds an element of risk to characters whose only downside would otherwise be "they struggle to kill," which doesn't matter if their neutral is so strong that they can just rack up damage for as long as it takes.

[@angelbecerra9978]

CanisInfernus oooooo and really good chariters that can combo endlessly can be very light and not benefent from rage

[@RamRamStyles]

no

[@Pokemon_Doge]

Short answer: *fuck no* Long answer: *FUCK NO*

[@Tiajuan]

Nothing good comes from rage. It's the worst idea in a game like smash. You shouldn't be rewarded for being beaten up.

[@toafloast1883]

But you aren't, you're just given a fighting chance. It's a good balancing mechanism.

[@starcubey]

Same as saying staling is hurting you for beating the opponeng up imo.

[@DunCakes]

Balancing mechanic in a fighting game Words that should never be put into a sentence

[@chorosso5259]

It doesn't reward you for getting beaten up, it rewards you for getting beaten up and still managing to get a hit. If someone is at that level of high percentage and you haven't knocked them out yet you are doing something wrong.

[@yellthehellos884]

So are you just gonna ignore the tripping mechanic in Brawl

[@AtomizerBaT]

Two Ideas: One: An on/off switch for rage Two: Individual layers for rage effects. What I mean is in Sm4sh, rage starts at 35%. Hypothetically, a heavier character, like Bowser, should start rage at higher percent, such as 75%. Meanwhile, a lighter character, like Jigglypuff, should experience it at as low as 20%.

[@spencernaugle]

Are you kidding me? This is a COMPETITIVE GAME! why should you punish somebody for playing better? A comeback should be based off somebody's skill and ability to pull off a comeback, not a stupid rage mechanic.

[@Evello37]

Spencer Naugle Did you watch the whole video? Because rage does not always reward the losing player. Just as often, it rewards the WINNING player, and enables easier 2-stocks. And the video doesn't even describe how rage can mess with some characters' combos, meaning it can actually punish both the leading and losing player in different circumstances. Rage is not just a simple comeback mechanic.

[@themacattack671]

@Evello37 Honestly the whole "working both ways" concept doesn't really seem to hold. Rage to my knowledge only increases knockback and not hitsun. This makes it harder for the low percent combos to connect as opponents get thrown farther without increased hitsun making it easy to get out of combos. Rage doesn't help in these situations after a stock it taken. It really helps when a player is at mid percent and the other is at high percent (much more common ) Comeback mechanics are inherently uncompetitive.

[@renejotas]

Spencer Naugle but thats what makes it competitive, everyone is even, and if you are losing you still have a chance

[@themacattack671]

@johnyfun so getting punished for winning and getting boosted for losing is competitive.....?

[@ew275x]

+Spencer Naugle What do you think about X-Factor in Marvel 3? It was put in there as a comeback mechanic because Marvel 2 matches got really lopsided as you lost characters since you lost your important assists. I do think games should avoid slippery slope design since one of Chess's biggest weaknesses is that the game is over way sooner before it ends because you rarely can afford to come back. I do think Rage helps make the slope a little less slipper plus it can benefit the winning player, so it moves the slope to make for more fun matches.

[@wisedannyboy5568]

its nice to see you comeback after what felt like 98 years lol

[@Ohsnapkline]

rage is bad and a mechanic that rewards bad play. lucario is bad from a design stand point that why project M Lucario is the best version of his character

[@mariogamer2102]

So i was in training mode and learned that a fully charged foward smash(max aura) can kill captain falcon at 20% xD

[@ultimaterecoil1136]

Ohsnapkline well you just hate heavy weights don't you. Rage is the only reason they have half a chance.

[@water-111]

The punishment that the player gets for not finishing the stock, is that the other guy is STILL ALIVE, and has a fighting chance to comeback. The character who is doing the most damage shouldnt be punished by literally making the other guy stronger, thats ridiculous and goes completely against competitive game design.

[@xxGamerX-cc2ho]

Randolph Beede No it rewards bad playing.

[@sissylonglegsd207]

MarioGamer 210 no, it kills him at 0. Still, why are you letting Lucario get to 190 percent as captain falcon??

[@supermancyWON]

I refer too rage setups (Combo's or play styles relying on rage) as a Red Tear Stone Build. In the souls series (Demon Souls/Dark Souls) the ring known as the red tear stone allows you to do significantly more damage at lower health or dangerous percentage. this made people create stuff like the 1 shot pocket rocket builds of Dark Souls 3 invaders and some of the crazy Great Axe/Ultra Greatsword builds that used this ring to a stronger existent. I like this style of thinking and optional usage. some times i'll go in as dedede or Bowser and let myself be bodied in order to send out really harsh combos and dangerously early kills (I sometimes do the same thing as Mac). the more time i spend playing the Souls Series PvP and the more time i play Smash bros the more similarity i see between them. Not only in build usage but also mindgames and other stuff that goes into Player Versus Player. The rage mechanic is something that i want in the next smash game along with characters who can do more interesting things with it as being dangerously close to death in a match can really bring out more a more intense and enjoyable environment. I would definitely recommend people trying out a "Red Tear Stone Build (RTSB if you really want to shorten it) with different characters and seeing what can surprisingly come out of it

[@61pokepi]

rage is literally the tripping of smash 4 edit: im not saying that rage is as bad as tripping, as a lot of people seem to be claiming, or even that they're at the same level of fairness. I understand that rage isn't RNG. I was more comparing them in that they both remove skill from an otherwise skillful game. If you're gunna argue against me, don't argue against the fairness of rage, but don't put words in my mouth and claim that I think they're equal.

[@antehman2912]

IFFMF I get the feeling you didn't play brawl competitively

[@mickylord21]

IFFMF you're literally wrong

[@renejotas]

IFFMF rage aint random comeon

[@bball98038]

Jonhyfun that's a good point

[@aarontom]

gr8 b8 m8. i r8 8/8.