南京大学高华教授:红军长征的历史叙述是怎样形成的？

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御坂美琴—bilibili

2 жыл бұрын

Пікірлер: 180

@kantimmanuel5952 2 жыл бұрын

感谢你能post上去，

@kianyunsim9461 Жыл бұрын

感謝高老師，感謝上傳。

@deskeyi Жыл бұрын

這裡就能看出學者和公知講史的區別，只有歷史學者才會去探究「長征的論述」是怎樣形成的這樣比較枯燥但很有意義的題目，讓公知講最多給你講講他自己對長征的論述

@quantum7388 Жыл бұрын

是的，xx事件本身和对xx事件的叙述是有关联但完全不同的两件事。毛的第一身份是文人，所以特别特别重视理论和叙述的工作。毛年轻时作文满分，国民党代理宣传部长风生水起，对于文字的敏感，对于笔杆子的重用和整肃，最后落笔到“文化”大革命都有其脉络可循。高教授对于这部分的很多研究成果还没来得及拿出来😭

@yk6474 5 ай бұрын

高教授也算公共知识分子，你说的那种是御文讲史，御用文人看风向给你讲。

@yizhu5083 2 жыл бұрын

感谢上传

@lywrjj3948 Жыл бұрын

缅怀高华教授

@hh8111 2 жыл бұрын

感谢高华老师

@woodburnt 2 жыл бұрын

高老师千古 🌹

@user-ut9kl7fb8x 2 жыл бұрын

感激up

@lynne8938 11 ай бұрын

高教授永垂不朽

@junzeliu3349 Жыл бұрын

听到朱九思老校长了讲座肯定是华中科技大学了❤

@vincenthwong6299 Жыл бұрын

南大的

@LJHuang-jn8bj 2 жыл бұрын

名稱演變：逃跑主義戰略轉進西竄（國民黨）西征長征。。。本質：求生存記錄：紅軍長征史（徐夢秋主編）西行漫記（紅星照耀中國）（Red Star Over China)(Edgar Parks Snow著) 隨軍西行見聞記（陳雲）

@Brandon-cs4bb Жыл бұрын

魔鬼永远藏在细节里面，真理也一样。中国的历史中国的未来的基础之一必然是高华这样有历史责任的历史学家的发微。

@user-qw8ch7ol9n 5 ай бұрын

53:23 青年去延安 56:59 对长征叙述的重要性 1:00:04 30年代与50年代宣传长征的特点 1:21:38 张国焘《我的回忆》

@mrmosk2011 2 жыл бұрын

以长征为分水岭对退休待遇的区别和八旗中不同待遇类似。

@user-tc9bo9lq4n 2 жыл бұрын

cnm

@ht4300 2 жыл бұрын

哈哈，后清嘛。

@wshawn6817 2 жыл бұрын

最烦就是这种屁都不懂还喜欢到处刷存在感的人

@user-mc1uh9jg5u 2 жыл бұрын

创业团队跟你混吃摸鱼的能一个待遇吗

@lucaschannel3442 Жыл бұрын

下面一堆xfh破防

@xinquanceng1889 2 жыл бұрын

最后一句：给农民公民身份！说的太对了，到现在还没有实现！

@ryendung31 2 жыл бұрын

高华老师千古！

@timanderson5683 2 жыл бұрын

要是能把前20秒剪掉再上传就好了

@gasnaked 2 жыл бұрын

这应该是在华中科技大学的讲座

@frankleo306 2 жыл бұрын

中共的人才更优秀，高华教授讲的好，穿插很多历史分支，谢谢上传。

@maxshi5608 2 жыл бұрын

如何下载这个视频呢

@JohnSum86 Жыл бұрын

创世纪，史诗化

@user-dy6gy3lj3q 2 жыл бұрын

(●'◡'●)那个提问的女孩挺可爱的。

@user-zz5dy9ue5f 2 жыл бұрын

听过，是不是重发

@yuedong5088 9 ай бұрын

何畏的结局还有争议，有人说被处决了，也有说隐姓埋名在老家务农直到60年去世

@xiangkang6052 Жыл бұрын

薄复礼没有到延安，二六军团到云南时把他放了。这一点高教授有些小错误

@Ryan.8964 2 жыл бұрын

高华老师千古

@wangbo9243 5 ай бұрын

这个应该是在华中科技大学的演讲

@Mrlee323 2 жыл бұрын

擅长使用媒体和舆论，各种钻法律空子。反对新闻法的原因在这里。刑不可知则威不可测

@kimberlykou-kj8ri 9 ай бұрын

刑不可知，威不可测，则民畏上也。

@juli8487 Жыл бұрын

历史是胜利者书写的

@stbob5985 Жыл бұрын

现在才知道红军长征的真实面貌

@zft9197 2 жыл бұрын

高老师千古

@junjun4919 Жыл бұрын

The Nanjing Massacre Memorial Hall is the "Nanjing Civil War Massacre Memorial Hall". There have been four incidents known as the Nanking Incident, and the Japanese invasion of Nanking in December 1937 was the third. Worse than that was the fourth time (1949) when Chiang Kai-shek and the Communist Party of Mao Zedong fought. After Japan's defeat in the war, Chiang Kai-shek and the Nationalist Party petitioned U.S. President Truman for continued U.S. support for the Nationalist Party by his wife, Song Meiling, but Truman refused. On the other hand, Mao Zedong's Communist Party was given weapons that the Soviet Union had seized from the Japanese army in Manchukuo. China then entered a state of civil war, and a great number of people were killed in Nanking. Therefore, Nanjing has a considerable number of human bones buried in it. Chiang Kai-shek, who was defeated by the Chinese Communist Party, fled to Taiwan, and Western Europe such as the United States left China because they were ideologically incompatible with the Chinese Communist Party, and diplomatic relations were cut off. Civil war between the Kuomintang and the Communist Party Sun Yat-sen was a Comintern sympathizer, so he wanted to get along with the Chinese Communist Party. Chiang Kai-shek, a relative (Sun Yat-sen's wife was Zong Qingling, Chiang's wife was his sister Song Meiling), also tried to get along with the CCP. This is known as ”the first national joint production (1924). At that time, the Chinese Communist Party was an organization like a gangster. After Sun Yat-sen's death, it was revealed to Chiang Kai-shek that the purpose of joining the Communist Party's joint efforts was to take over the Kuomintang from within. The Kuomintang then launched an attack on the Communist Party. (1927-1936) The Kuomintang of China, as you can tell from their wives (the Sosan sisters are from the Zhejiang Zaibatsu, one of the three major Chinese conglomerates), is wealthy, invites a military advisory group from Hitler's Germany, Germany was unable to export its own weapons due to its defeat in the world war I, so it was trying to finish the German-style army with Czech-made weapons (actual ones are available in a museum in Taiwan), which prolonged the Sino-Japanese War. Chiang Kai-shek himself said, "Japan is like a disease of the skin, but the Communist Party is a disease of the heart." He didn't fight Japan much, but rather devoted all his energy to eradicating the Communist Party. The battle between the Kuomintang and the Communist Party was a battle between the military (Komintang) and the gangsters (Communist Party), and the Kuomintang was overwhelmingly strong. The losing Communist Party, Mao Zedong, refused to admit defeat and continued to flee, which Mao Zedong called ”the Long March”. In 1927, there were about 100,000 Communist Party members, but by the time they fled to Yan'an in Shaanxi Province, the number had dropped to about 5,000 (the actual number is said to be much lower). In the 1936 Xian incident, Chiang Kai-shek was captured by Zhang Xueliang, who was secretly connected to the Comintern. Zhou Enlai of the Chinese Communist Party came to Xi'an under the direction of the Comintern. He made the condition that the Kuomintang and the Communist Party work together, in exchange for saving Chiang Kai-shek's life . This was accepted by his wife Song Meiling, who was in charge of the negotiations, and was called ”the second national collaboration”. The reason why the Comintern wanted to fight together in the Xi'an Incident was that the Soviet Union would lose if Germany and Japan were enemies on both sides of the former Soviet Union. Therefore, the purpose was to prolong the battle between Japan and the Kuomintang and prevent Japan from proceeding to the Soviet Union. Although it was called a joint struggle, most of the Kuomintang fought against Japan, and the Communist Party's Mao Zedong spent peaceful days in farming villages growing tobacco in Yan'an. Through the second national collaboration, Communist Party spies infiltrated the Kuomintang and worked to create a conflict between Japan and the Kuomintang and to prevent reconciliation. The reason why there are almost no videos of Japan and the Communist Party fighting on youtube is that there was no real battle between the two. With Japan's defeat in 1945, Nanjing became the capital of China, and the United States acted as mediator between the two parties.

@jhonchen7480 7 ай бұрын

早期《红旗》杂志很多长征素材。

@wenlu8718 2 жыл бұрын

高老師千古

@xnone289 Ай бұрын

在这解构历史，客观事实就是确实两万五千里加四渡赤水

@boblei5999 9 ай бұрын

高人，不一般的学者

@xcv1373 2 жыл бұрын

高老师千古！

@kiss6572 3 ай бұрын

我很尊重高华老师的学术权威性，但是我不赞同他说的保大节，大节不能失，我觉得应该说人应该坚持普世价值，保住道德底线。在中共和国共问题上我不认为有什么所谓的大节，就像岳飞一样，叛变不应该成为一个贬义词。

@xixifu878 Ай бұрын

观点完全赞同，虽然但是，我觉得常听高老师的课，应该能感受到其实这些词语背后是非常明显的反讽意味，经常后面都会带一句，你们能理解吧？😅

@mrmosk2011 2 жыл бұрын

现在在西方媒体上夸中共的是不是现代的陈云？

@user-rh4uu8mv3b 6 ай бұрын

薄复礼是在昆明被释放的

@lanemoonblade5227 2 жыл бұрын

学生们提问题的水平有点差。

@user-xt7zn2oj8z Жыл бұрын

长征到现在很多都不清楚

@totow3222 Жыл бұрын

高先生千古！

@nicchao4244 2 жыл бұрын

“高华”思维

@gilberteast7183 2 жыл бұрын

高华教授在有些史料的融汇贯通上还有盲点，视频中他讲到长征前期党内的路线斗争在1960年代以前都不提，关于毛主席挽救了党挽救了革命是那之后才有的，是显然错误的。1945年中共的第一份历史决议«关于若干历史问题的决议》中非常清楚的点明了当时的错误路线，肯定了毛主席的正确路线。高华教授不可能不知道这份文件，只是未做联系吧！

@user-sd6ni2uj4q 2 жыл бұрын

高层决议和向下宣传还是不一样的吧

@user-yh9pg2he7g 2 жыл бұрын

你在反对什么？中共历史决议肯定毛泽东就说毛泽东同志挽救了党？

@user-zt6yp5uq7t Жыл бұрын

一个是内部决议，一个是对外宣传，两码事

@fukfukccp Жыл бұрын

不敢苟同长征红军极少开小差的论断。抗战8年，面对战斗力极其强悍的日军，中国军队共死亡130万。整个长征中战斗场景仅15天，红一方面军人数即从8万降至8000。另外的72000人，绝大部分绝对不可能是战斗死亡。可以想象，相当大的一部分是离队（随便你叫不叫它开小差）

@zeyulou6919 Жыл бұрын

有理有据

@fukfukccp Жыл бұрын

@@user-1984outopos 仅15天战斗。中国河南要饭的完全都可以走下来

@fukfukccp Жыл бұрын

@@user-1984outopos “红军” “长征” 过程中，战斗状态仅、仅仅15天，这个有问题吗？河南流民都可以跑几千里，你强调的有组织的团体，应该更可以（而不是更不可以吧）！

@deskeyi Жыл бұрын

@@fukfukccp 對，大決戰也就那15天，而且也不可能是24小時，最多朝九晚五；按這個理論北非戰場隆美爾也就打了幾十天，太平洋戰爭4年也就打了100來天😂一場足球比賽除了進球都是閒逛是吧😂哪場大戰役都是又不連續的很多小戰役組成的，小戰役也是有多次不連續的交火組成的😅湘江戰役已經證明了即使中央紅軍硬碰硬也打不過，打不過要麼跑要麼投唄，有啥奇怪的，好多師、團都是整建制被全殲

@fukfukccp Жыл бұрын

@@deskeyi 全歼是什么概念？都被奸了？还是大半自己散了？如果是后者，你是来支持我？

@edtyehehsgsgsj188 Жыл бұрын

逃跑叫做長征？

@user-sr9rv6rh4t 10 ай бұрын

蒋介石逃跑到小岛上去了叫什么呢

@alankoodiva6274 5 ай бұрын

为什么和共产国际联系这么重要呢？中共的独立性应该让国人疑惑，谎言一直贯穿它的历史，如何取信于民

@laylowstaylow 2 жыл бұрын

長征？不就是另一個宣傳嗎？

@user-zv2zb2ek3p 2 жыл бұрын

西串

@oxhu7535 Жыл бұрын

高华真是高华，🐂🐂🐂🐂

@julianwang Жыл бұрын

逃竄

@mrmosk2011 2 жыл бұрын

让你嫁给徐，徐叛变了你也受牵连，这是很怨。也说明国民党宣传的共产共妻还是有点儿根据的，当然国民党的添油加醋和夸张也存在。

@user-fu8bo3xe3q 2 жыл бұрын

美国2022年还制裁普京女儿，这算什么？

@whzq404 Жыл бұрын

当年听课的学生在干嘛，是效力还是图利？

@user-lw7uq1xs3w 2 жыл бұрын

带有情色彩的研究，違犯科学精神

@jeremylean5719 2 жыл бұрын

只要是人文研究，必定带有情，除非他不是人，没得感情和个人倾向。

@lilyqiu2422 2 жыл бұрын

你会尊重一块木头吗？

@zeyulou6919 Жыл бұрын

问题就是这里，高华教授可以说是最早一批打破官方叙述研究近代史的教授。我觉得在那个年代他的研究即使带着感情色彩也是有进步性的。

@user-db8by1ti8h 9 ай бұрын

😅😅😅😅你给我整乐了，你懂个啥啊就评价人家

@user-cc8uh1yb1g 2 жыл бұрын

这个哥们比沈志华还是差很多

@stilingiceland1403 2 жыл бұрын

正相反

@zeyulou6919 Жыл бұрын

哈哈哈，其实高华教授是羡慕沈的，因为沈志华很有钱，有钱买档案文献，但是高教授就比较拮据（红太阳书里高华自己说的）。这种东西也不好横向比较。不过我个人感觉高华脑补的情节没沈那么多，虽然两个人都很爱脑补。但是脑补也可以理解，毕竟我国档案管理方面比较差，资源还是不够多，更何况他们是2000年左右出名的学者

@stevensong6129 2 жыл бұрын

这种没有考证只凭个人的回忆写的东西不能作为历史文献。像飞夺泸定桥这样子虚乌有的故事从逻辑上就讲不通。试想你如果能从这里渡大渡河，还用得着去800公里以外去抢夺一座桥吗？

@zhaohanxu719 2 жыл бұрын

确定是800公里吗？

@user-ec2su2ul4o Жыл бұрын

八百公里？

@user-pg7ny5uh3i 10 ай бұрын

八百公里😂你这水平就别得瑟了

@user-ip6ij5xg9g 4 ай бұрын

高教授千古

@user-go8kz3mw9d Жыл бұрын

国统区的新闻审查太差了，这种报纸竟然可以传播！叫我们现在的大陆人很难想象

@user-yq5sk9pl2r Жыл бұрын

不是国军不想，是行政能力太差😅

@luiswang1389 11 ай бұрын

国统区势力复杂，蒋介石也无法彻底控制，另外国民党有江浙文人气，道德底线在哪里。不像四川，湖南出身的这些赤色土匪

@levischen3178 Жыл бұрын

暂时看来，一点不客观，大家懂的，当然环境因素保工作保名节保命更重要，可以理解

@levischen3178 Жыл бұрын

其实也是配合洗脑宣传，不这样做的话跟本不可能在盐碱地教学

@user-go8kz3mw9d Жыл бұрын

南方人不会说您吗！怎么总是你你的，向人家提问请教就你你的！以后就吃亏吧！

@LuckyArnold99 Жыл бұрын

我北方的，虽然您是敬称，但是我不太习惯用您，感觉没有必要。反而是有个台湾的最近还是对我说“您”

@shinetse2680 7 ай бұрын

還真沒有這個字，從來不跟北方低素質的人打交道，所以也沒覺得吃了什麼虧，倒是北方人這也能產生優越感真是笑死人😂

@Donotoucher 11 ай бұрын

知識分子不是有知識的人，而是敢於質疑官方意識形態宣傳，敢於冒天下之大不韙獨立思考，敢為天下先而發聲的人。這個高教授不是，建議高老師真的下點功夫，到史丹佛大學文史館去調閱蔣介石日記，（這份珍貴的日記是對公眾開放的），再對蔣介石為什麼提出“攘外必先安內”，他是否抗日，是否欺騙國人做出分析。根據高老師前一個小時的演講，他的研究“史料”全部是官方定製的，估計看到蔣先生的日記，也不敢做出自己的判斷。

@user-pg7ny5uh3i 10 ай бұрын

正经人谁写日记啊😂