Narcissism & 3 Types of Empathy | DIANA DIAMOND

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BorderlinerNotes

BorderlinerNotes

Күн бұрын

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@sugarfree1894
@sugarfree1894 4 жыл бұрын
emotional contagion: I see you crying and I feel sad and maybe cry too as a result - your feeling becomes my feeling. emotional empathy: I see you crying and I can imagine the sadness you are feeling - your feeling is yours and not mine. cognitive empathy: I see you crying and I know that means you are sad. I might then see that as an opportunity to exploit you as you are in a weak position. I think this is akin to what Sam Vaknin calls 'cold empathy'.
@sarahm8775
@sarahm8775 3 жыл бұрын
No no you have it wrong. Emotional empathy: I see you crying and I remember last time I cried and I can put myself in your shoes, I then feel the sadness within myself and share my sadness with your sadness so we can relate. Cognitive empathy: I see that you are crying and I gather everything I already know about you and assume it is because of Chad, I not only know you're sad but I can also gather why, the level of sadness, and how long you might be sad for. I can use this information for an area of compassion and I can also use this information to show more emotional empathy.
@sarahm8775
@sarahm8775 3 жыл бұрын
The thing with narcissists is they ONLY use cognitive empathy..
@69birdboy
@69birdboy 3 жыл бұрын
Not their fault tho
@rachelsimbhu4383
@rachelsimbhu4383 3 жыл бұрын
Yes ! Absolutely 100% !!
@funkymunky
@funkymunky 3 жыл бұрын
Also: sympathy-hurling. 🤮
@nicholasbogosian5420
@nicholasbogosian5420 3 жыл бұрын
If we are concerned about abuse, *both* highly empathic people as well as "narcissists" can be abusive/manipulative. Someone's level of empathy is not what dictates their level of respect for boundaries. In other words, the most meaningful kind of empathy one could have is the ability to sense and respect someone else's expression of their autonomy and who they are. And both "empaths" as well as "narcissists" can struggle with this, or even sense it and not care.
@EMFPP
@EMFPP 11 ай бұрын
In some cases, their upbringing might have been similar, but the paths each personality (maybe unconsciously) 'chooses'/follows are definitely different. Someone who has NPD is capable of doing unimaginable things, which are incomprehensible for someone who is highly sensitive and/or highly empathic... However, HSPs and/or 'empaths' apprehend all kind of information in a very assertive (and unique) way... So, they care (a lot). Conversely, when you are that sensitive, and barely know yourself, it becomes harder to 'digest' and understand that information, or even accept it, in a healthy way (i.e. unfortunately, you sometimes have no idea what boundaries are [it's a continuous learning process, though]). On the other hand, once they learn who they are and start loving themselves the way they are, those empathic people begin to understand they cannot change others, so they become kinder and even more protective... Let's bear in mind that self-love/compassion will always be the key (for all of us)... How do you do that? Be honest with yourself, and accept your reality no matter how hard it is... Tell yourself the truth! Finally, understanding the NPD's pain might be the ultimate learning and, at the same time, the most challenging one (malignant NPDs and psychopaths are no joke, but truly kind people aren't either [however people want to call the latter]). By understanding narcissistic behaviour, I don't mean you have to accept everything... Quite the opposite! You set your own boundaries, and you respect yourself. If you have to walk away or say 'no', just do it (if you can't, just know you're not alone...) If someone can't bear your happiness or even your existence, that's their problem, not yours. Basically, just be yourself... And despite there being many questions to be answered as we are all human beings with our uniqueness and own issues, focus on your abilities, on that positive uniqueness of yours (which is irreplaceable)... & (with no shame or whatsoever) Honestly love yourself! 💪 (P.S.: HSPs and/or empaths know things which sometimes they don't know they know... It's their nature and sensitivity to the world... Empathic contagion/concern is much more than just mirroring one's feelings... NPDs may convince many people of their false grandiosity, but (healthy/conscious) HSPs and/or empaths will still see/feel their true-self and pain... That's what I believe 'emotional contagion' is, which could be both a gift and a curse... I also trust that once they accept that fact as a gift, they will be able to learn how to deal with difficult realities and minds in an outstanding way.)
@ArchAngel435
@ArchAngel435 8 ай бұрын
​​@@EMFPP truly kind people are the people pleasers, low in self esteem and equally destructive ( they are the flying monkeys that enable the malignant narcissist become who they are ) I learnt that from Marty Glenn. The story my life. I felt sorry for my husband, married him 26 yrs ago. He turned out to be borderline with narcissistic traits. Was a union made in hell. But I'm on my healing journey now and can emphatize with all you're saying here. I can see that his grandiosity is just but a facade for his empty self, I can't feel his pain yet.
@EMFPP
@EMFPP 7 ай бұрын
@@ArchAngel435 Hi! Thank you for your message! After having read your comment, I had to ask myself for my own sake the following question: "How can you be a truly kind person if you do not share that kindness with yourself?" (and, personally speaking, this is a very meaningful question). I see your point as far as 'people pleasers' are concerned, and I agree with you to a certain extent, but one's (difficult) reality won't change the fact they are (hyper)sensitive and kind. Unless they please others at their own expense, I believe there is nothing to worry about. You set your limits, and you make sure you're doing the right thing by sharing your kindness the way you know and, as much as you can, not being submissive and/or permissive. It is a learning process, indeed! It takes time, and you might fail once in a while, especially if your upbringing was traumatic... That's when you'll see how strong you are: you fail, and then you rise; you may fail again, but you don't give up, and you keep on trying: you rise again and again, and you face all sort of challenges by tackling the many difficulties you encounter throughout your life. (Note: There is a lot to say about the topic, but I'm trying to find myself, too, so I have no answer key for misconceptions, evil, strange synchronicities, and unbearable pain. I know the theory, but I am still learning how to evolve, how to be my own priority with no selfishness, and eventually how to love myself. Just as you are the most important person in your life, so I am in my own life.)
@FunkyMunky-w2m
@FunkyMunky-w2m 5 ай бұрын
Caring about smn from your heart is even more important than their boundaries, but both are important
@EMFPP
@EMFPP 5 ай бұрын
@@FunkyMunky-w2m If one cares about someone from their heart, they will respect their loved ones' boundaries. 🙂 (It might happen neither of them knows what boundaries are, though. But maybe they can both learn from each other...)
@TomeRodrigo
@TomeRodrigo 4 жыл бұрын
Amazing..that first type of empathy sounds to me like the one people who tend to call themselves "empaths" have.
@SK-no2pp
@SK-no2pp 4 жыл бұрын
Empath is not a badge of honor. Most empaths are actually very codependent. They usually have parents were completely emotionally unavailable
@katkatkatkat463
@katkatkatkat463 4 жыл бұрын
@@SK-no2pp Totally. I’m so sick of all these “empaths” acting like they’re earth’s tortured angels who will disintegrate like butterfly wings at the slightest touch, when usually they just refuse to take responsibility for developing healthy emotional boundaries.
@jeanneeber
@jeanneeber 3 жыл бұрын
Correct. That’s caused by the lack of BOUNDRIES in Narcissistic families. Narcissists look for Empaths like predators.
@jeanneeber
@jeanneeber 3 жыл бұрын
@@SK-no2pp Not true of all.if you’re from an N family you are trained to respond as though everyone’s pain is shared & validated by all. (. Except for your own) of course!
@jeanneeber
@jeanneeber 3 жыл бұрын
@@katkatkatkat463 Youre not very schooled on Narcissists are ya? I’m an empath from a family with 16 toxic narcissistic predatory siblings & their spouses are the same too. You try it out for decades!
@luckyluckyloulou6100
@luckyluckyloulou6100 3 жыл бұрын
For me, my beginner yrs of life were very stressful with my both parents being cluster B’s but so I was mostly taken care of by my grandmother & great grandmother….by 6yrs I DEFINITELY started exhibiting ADHD, anxiousness, perfectionism etc.
@andrea6118
@andrea6118 2 жыл бұрын
I definitely fall into the first category, even subtle feelings I pick up on. It can be a really good tool for connecting with people, but it’s absolutely exhausting at times
@ST-yc7uj
@ST-yc7uj 2 жыл бұрын
Funny how it drives ppl away from you sometimes, dunno if you noticed
@jadesdream2212
@jadesdream2212 2 жыл бұрын
I relate strongly to the first one. Any other empaths out there that feel the same? I typically feel this way depending on how close I am with the person.
@ArchAngel435
@ArchAngel435 8 ай бұрын
My younger daughter feels this way with people close to her. But she's been traumatized during childhood with parents who are borderline narcissistic and people pleasers, both on the narcissism spectrum
@958342
@958342 2 жыл бұрын
I think whatever the level or type of empathy you have, as long as you DONT seek to exploit, it's fine. You will be bearable to be around. Don't expect people to rush to you with their problems and profess their connection to you. If you are fine not hearing those things, you are okay. Just roll with it. Just don't exploit. I cannot say I have emotional empathy in all situations. When I have not been through a situation myself, I have to switch to my cognitive empathy to try and imagine what it would feel like to have gone through it. Sometimes I can imagine it other times I cannot. For example when my friends who are parents to newborns complain about how difficult sleepless nights are or how hard labour was, or their terrible two challneges, I definitely cannot relate as i am not a parent. But I still sit with that person and let them tell me. I let them have the space and the time. I don't exploit. I think may be people can switch between modes of empathy. When I am around my mum, I take on her feelings and emotional like a sponge and I become overwhelmed sometimes. For example, when she panics about something, I notice myself start panicking when ordinarily, in that same situation, away from her, I wouldn't.
@jennyblairmcd
@jennyblairmcd 4 жыл бұрын
Great series!
@aktchungrabanio6467
@aktchungrabanio6467 3 жыл бұрын
Extremeley interesting video!!
@luckyluckyloulou6100
@luckyluckyloulou6100 3 жыл бұрын
If I hadn’t had my grandmother with the ability to emote, unlike her husband, my household would have thoroughly broken my psychology to pure empathy-deficient cluster B psychology….!!!!
@marypaulosky2214
@marypaulosky2214 4 жыл бұрын
I wish there was more information about dealing with a child with NPD. 💔
@BorderlinerNotes
@BorderlinerNotes 4 жыл бұрын
Duly noted. Thk you for the feedback.
@ST-yc7uj
@ST-yc7uj 2 жыл бұрын
Go to therapy and learn how to reparent
@ArchAngel435
@ArchAngel435 8 ай бұрын
Children are too young to be labelled with any personality disorder. As parent you need to self reflect, heal yourself
@MJ-om5go
@MJ-om5go 3 жыл бұрын
Spot on
@Alsatiagent
@Alsatiagent Жыл бұрын
Vaknin says traits of narcissism are passed from primary caregivers (usually mom) to offspring unknowingly and that this occurs from 18 to 36 months of age.
@downer_dave
@downer_dave Жыл бұрын
That's interesting. Any chance you could send me a link to check out?
@Alsatiagent
@Alsatiagent Жыл бұрын
Try searching his channel. He releases many hours every week and has mentioned it several times. Re: "traits of narcissism" may not be precisely what a child learns. They seek their primary caregivers gaze, smile and sincere affection. If it is provided inconsistently or not at all they must adjust their needs and/or tactics. This can affect how they interact with people and their own future offspring. @@downer_dave
@Star-dj1kw
@Star-dj1kw 2 жыл бұрын
Interesting 🤔 video
@luckyluckyloulou6100
@luckyluckyloulou6100 3 жыл бұрын
It’s all the effects of stressful low income or no income participation under global dominance of Centralized CURRENCIES!!!
@downer_dave
@downer_dave Жыл бұрын
Agreed
@le_th_
@le_th_ Жыл бұрын
Heritability??? I would love to hear the specific genetic markers. I've never heard anyone state there are known genetic markers that are passed along in the DNA.
@BittersweetMayhem
@BittersweetMayhem 3 жыл бұрын
Can a narc have emotional contagion because they make it about themselves?
@rhythmofheaven1489
@rhythmofheaven1489 Жыл бұрын
Emotional contagion is common among narcissists specifically with their loved ones.
@robertvig3227
@robertvig3227 4 жыл бұрын
The subtitles autogenerator thinks it's in Russian. Could you help to change to English?
@nathankoehler2143
@nathankoehler2143 4 жыл бұрын
I'm confused between the second form of emotional empathy and cognitive empathy, could someone expand.
@rudhisundar
@rudhisundar 4 жыл бұрын
Emotional Empathy: Someone understands the emotions and acts empathetically, i.e does not hurt, or use them. Cognitive Empathy: someone knows what is hurting, but uses that knowledge to harm you more, or less, as per his wishes. Basically, pushes your buttons, that's what NPD people do!! They fuck you, literally!
@Knightgil
@Knightgil 4 жыл бұрын
@@rudhisundar It's not exactly like that. You can have cognitive empathy for someone else, but not use it to harm them. Nor does it mean that because you have emotional empathy for someone you will act compassionately, ethically, etc., towards them. I'd say it's perfectly possible for narcissists to have emotional empathy or even emotional contagion for someone, but because they lack emotional literacy, shut down emotionally and turn away from the other person, because those feelings are just that much distressful (or even offensive to them) and don't really know how to handle them. When they start to become more functional, they might start to display more cognitive empathy and intelectually understand other people feelings instead of letting them distress them so much, but still not allowing themselves to, or not knowing how to, actually connect emotionally with them. I've seen this happen with someone who seemed to display typical narcissistic traits, but I'm no psychologist, so you can take what I'm saying with a grain of salt. Bottomline is: Emotional empathy is emotionally connecting with someone, it is to understand their feelings on an emotional level, without confusing your feelings with their feelings. Cognitive empathy is simply to understand someone's feelings on a racional, intellectual level, without emotional connection. It is possible to act compassionately towards someone when you have cognitive empathy, but you can't connect emotionally with them.
@rudhisundar
@rudhisundar 4 жыл бұрын
@@Knightgil You are RIGHT, let this comment educate others, thanks!
@nathankoehler2143
@nathankoehler2143 4 жыл бұрын
@@rudhisundar I guess it was the difference between the first 2 types of emotional empathy is where I was struggling.
@janswimwild
@janswimwild 4 жыл бұрын
For me the simplest explanation is: The first is the taking on the feelings of the other and allowing oneself to take on these feelings as if they were ones own. The second is compassion, emotionally knowing how the other feels without needing to make those feelings ones own but extending loving kindness and understanding. The third I would describe as the ability to sympathise, an intellectual recognition of emotion with no emotional connection. Does this make sense?
@natashaj9169
@natashaj9169 3 жыл бұрын
It's a choice I've seen my narc friend lack empathy with everyone but her child
@ninanina8023
@ninanina8023 3 жыл бұрын
She has empathy for child because child is just supply for narcissist.
@rapunzelmane9592
@rapunzelmane9592 2 жыл бұрын
I doubt if she has that much empathy for the child when they are alone together. Her empathy is either an act for you, her audience, or the child is a golden child for as long as the child is useful in that role. If the child is no longer useful and doesn't provide enough narcissistic supply, the child's role will change to scapegoat. The mother may also fluctuate between the two roles on a whim. My mother did the same. Very good at pretending to care sometimes for the thrill of duping me, or needing my attention, then changed to evil on a dime.
@EphemeralProductions
@EphemeralProductions Жыл бұрын
A genetic component?! Weird! I’ve never heard that before.
@a.humphries8678
@a.humphries8678 2 ай бұрын
My husband flat out says men dont have empathy. That's what makes them different than women...😮
@hel3125
@hel3125 4 жыл бұрын
Can empathy be learned/taught?
@aktchungrabanio6467
@aktchungrabanio6467 3 жыл бұрын
@Zero Khan Only cognitive empathy can be learned, hence the term "cognitive". Emotional empathy is something you are born with or developed as a child. It's impossible to develop it as an adult.
@reflectingtrees6173
@reflectingtrees6173 3 жыл бұрын
Could a narssictic person, politely be asked to watch these post?
@judeannethecandorchannel2153
@judeannethecandorchannel2153 2 жыл бұрын
Vulnerable Narcissism, plus TBI, and maybe Borderline traits = Has HIGH CONTAGION EMPATHY but it's fleeting and gives way to callous and even cruel???? I'm VERY Confused. As to how this applies to the man I Loved (in fact LOVED) and almost married -- and am now am running away from... 😪😔😓 In so many ways person I'm trying to get away from seems like that dazzling, charming. brilliant, Seeminly deeply loving but then Ultimately terribly exploitive and abusive vulnerable narcissist. And yet -- he had a massive traumatic brain injury at age 10, and still has a plate in his head, and, like All of his Emotions, his Empathy of the 1st kind, contagion, is so high that it's actually bizarre. He cries very readily with a strained Grimace and a sound like stifled sobs (though rarely any tears). His crying looks and sounds like Arthur Fleck, the JOKER protagonist, like his Pseudo Bulbar effect laughter. He's been accused of laughing during tragic movies because his stiffled sobs sound like laughter. (He actually can't be inside the chapel during funeral services because he'll cry uncontrollably and the sounds he makes are so intense that it's distracting to mourners, so he has to stand in the doorway and just say Hi to people as they go in and let them know that he has a disability and can't be inside the chapil. One night when we invited a woman who works for him (she ended up being sadly a total con artist and ripping us off in so many ways and actually helped facilitated breaking us up, breaking n up what could have been my marriage ... ...when he invited her to come stay with us because we thought she was being abused by her crackhead husband, she threw herself into my arms crying and while I was thinking about what she was feeling and caring about it deeply -- but also focusing on what could I do for her, rather than be flooded by empathy. (My empathy has become less mythical merging and more pragmatic care-taking as I've become an older and more soberly responsible person.) All that time my Fiancé was standing there uncontrollably crying. Not sobbing. No tears. But the grimace and had turns to the right and the stifled sobs sounds... So in the moment he was flooded with empathy for his employee. However fewer than 10 days later she was coming to me almost hysterical about how completely indifferent he seemed to her fate and her feelings. And he was furious with me for giving her any financial help or personal friendship. And I've been in situations with him where the fact that I'm crying is something he's actually contemptuous of com up the fact that I try to let him know that hes becoming violent in our fights and I'm getting injured is something hes contemptuous of and telling me I'm faking it….. all those signs of a pathological narcissist. Specifically my late husband was a very successful grandiose nurses it was a successful psychologist and author, and I'm coming to understand the so called prosocial narcissist because he actually contributed a great deal to the world at large but he was unbelievably difficult to live with and always had to be right and it was terribly judgmental and it could be Rudely unkind. But he understood the limits of reality and he understood that if you hit the woman you claim to love there's something profoundly fucked up about that and the world will never forgive you nor will your the woman you love. Even if she acts out a little bit and flails her hands around her and it pushes her pushes you in the middle of your chest with their palms in war of a dramatic gesture of violent emotion than an actual act of violent assault with any ability or intent to harm. My late husband understood that he as an alpha male could easily lose control and genuinely hurt me. And in the very early days of our living together that almost happened and he said we have to get control this or it'll destroy our relationship and he pointed out to me that the way I attended to physicalize my angerWas triggering him and that this could sweep us both up into a domestic abuse type scenario that would again destroy our relationship. So in other words he had the rationality to understand the limits of what a relationship can bear. And that you know if something like that were to happen it would be terrible and it would make it impossible for us to have the relationship we want to have and travel the world together in right books together. Somehow on the other hand the less functional vulnerable narcissist just thinks I think I'll get drunk and well you know if I hit my girlfriend that's too bad I guess I'll have to work on that with my therapist and figure out why I'm doing that period anyway My confusion stems in the fact that because of the traumatic brain injury his motions are extremely close to the surface he can't listen to a sad song without cry he can't see a set a beautiful scene in ATV show without crying he can't think of a appointment line from a Shakespeare play without crying. Thus one would think and I thought that he was the most sensitive person who ever lived. I thought he was the sensitive soulful deeply understanding antidote to the grandiose nurses that I've been with for 22 years. My late husband. On the contract. As angry as I am in many ways my late husband for all the things that happened between us and how financially hopelessly entangled with his family he left me, at least he had the good sense to a actually marry me instead of asking me to marry me and then avoiding marrying me which is quite a devious thing to do to a person, and he had a good sense to know that there could be no physical violence between us. We almost crossed that line in the very beginning of our life together and when he was cognitively messed up with parkinson's we almost crossed that line again at the end of our 22 years together.But we never actually did cross the line. We never heard each other. We almost lost control but we didn't. We were adults and we understood that some things just can't be. You can't express yourself that way. It's illegal it's immoral it's wrong it's profoundly dysfunctional. We would never have sat around drinking and yelling at each other and getting physically violent. Somehow my equally ambitious and equally financially successful perhaps someday but nowhere near as prosocially successful now exfiancee was incapable of learning such basic lessons. If you want to be a respected members of society comment You have to actually act like that period by the time the police are coming to your house on a regular basis, you're no longer A respectable CEO and member of society. You're just a fraud who's faking it. And yet getting back to the empty question-hyphen those sort of muffled cries of empathetic pain are clearly something real. I think it's the 1st type of empathy. The emotion just washes through him. But he doesn't really think about it. I'm very high on the 2nd type of empathy. I see the person's feeling it resonates strongly with me but I know that it's out there that is there feeling and I am unable to understand it intellectually and when I was younger I was more inclined to almost feel it as though it were my own as I would God there was that boundary confusion was much stronger than me when I was younger at this point in my life as my 54th birthday approaches I would say I'm very strong in the 2nd kind of empathy. I would say that my now experience is strong in the 1st kind the emotion just um Passes into him like a contagion to use the speaker's words, and I guess he must be pretty good at the 3rd kind, but in terms of just being able to see an emotion and care about it. Not just feel it in the moment and then stop carrying the next day, but to be able to see it and care about it and understand that this is a deep experience this person is suffering and their suffering matters. Maybe that's something more than empathy. Maybe that's just the next step above and beyond empathy which is morality It's probably hard to have morality without empathy but empathy alone won't make you a good person because if you feel somebody's feelings on Tuesday and you don't care anymore on Friday then what was the point of caring of ever feeling their feelings at all. You have to care. You have to care because you value the well being of others. Pardon the rent. I'm not my usual self lately it's less than 2 months since I escaped. Wish me luck I'm determined to make the best of the rest of my life in the wake of these 2 or really if you count my mother 3 nurse decisive relationships that have so defined my reality Ah unbeknows to me these last 54 almost years of my life and.
@luckyluckyloulou6100
@luckyluckyloulou6100 3 жыл бұрын
This lady is essentially aloof to the actual workings and nonworkings of Cluster B individuals…..!
@jerrymyers7178
@jerrymyers7178 3 жыл бұрын
They are not fixable, they personalities are to shattered, there is nothing there.
@downer_dave
@downer_dave Жыл бұрын
Psychedelics
@tooties545
@tooties545 4 жыл бұрын
#trump Trump #drumpf
@luckyluckyloulou6100
@luckyluckyloulou6100 3 жыл бұрын
Between 2-6yrs old is all a human needs of a very stressful /empathy-deficient beginning of life to become a pathological NARCISSIST…!!!!!!!
@luckyluckyloulou6100
@luckyluckyloulou6100 3 жыл бұрын
These psychologists are making an income off of this problem. ……they can’t see the forest from the trees…!!!!!!!!!!
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