Narcissistic Personality Disorder: Getting to the core

After undergoing two months of therapy, a crucial session unfolds where the patient's* emotions flare up, directed at the therapist. The catalyst for this outburst is the news of Dr. Yeomans’ upcoming two-week absence, during which another therapist will be taking over. Throughout the session, Dr. Yeomans adeptly handles the patient's anger and unravels the underlying issue-the deep-seated fear of abandonment. Superficial reassurances prove ineffective in addressing this profound concern.
*Indie is an actor, this is part of a demonstration for therapists.
🌟 Special Offer: Watch Two Weeks for Free!
Get exclusive access to in-depth content on TFP on Psyflix. Start your journey today with a free two-week trial! 🎥
Get your free trial membership: psyflix.net/en
Curious about the various methods and techniques featured in this series?
👉 Sign Up for More Insights: psyflix.net/en
Connect with Us on Social Media
🌍LinkedIn: / psyflix
🕵Facebook: profile.php?...
📱Instagram: / psyflix.mentalhealth
💌 Biweekly Exclusive Content

[@sweetmintkiss]

I dont know how therapists are doing this for years, its so hard to rationalise with a person with NPD - hats off to you doctors

[@alchemicalsoul]

It's a science like anything else. We use specific tools to disarm the ego, which the general population does not know how to do. Most NPD folks will avoid treatment.

[@ezdeezytube]

But there is no effective treatment. While the literature calls it "challenging" to treat, the blunt truth is there is no cure for NPD.

[@user-jp1hs6sl3h]

It's almost like the patient was being argumentative on purpose so he wouldn't have to go through with the therapy. Setting up questions to make the therapist feel like there would be no understanding between them. Knowing he needs to get better but doing everything he can to prevent it. I guess that's just how their brains are wired. And the reason to go to therapy is to help rewire it to a more normal state. Like wiring in a car. It's not always a cut and dry answer. Sometimes you have to dig in and find where it's broken before you can get it working right. Which isn't always a quick or easy thing to do

[@paulaoppedisano6460]

What I noticed is that the patient blamed the former therapist for not being able to handle the intensity of therapy. Where he actually is afraid of his own emotional intensity.

[@le_th_]

He blamed the former therapist for psychoanalyzing him. He blamed Yeoman for being like the former therapist. He blamed heteronormative values as a defense against his risky, irresponsible sexual activity that puts others in danger because there is "a pill" for that. He is one HUGE defense against ever looking at himself. As a self-professed covert narcissist once wrote in a song, "It's me. Hi. I'm the problem. It's me"" and goes on to discuss how much she is unwilling to look at herself in the mirror.

[@Tified967]

Bingo

[@lanal9330]

And he can only do it if it's in the late afternoon. 😉

[@ThreetwoOne-wu7ye]

Yes the grandiose self is scary. We are afraid to desroy the therapist. We are terrified of this inner bully and need to check that the shrink can handle that. But we cabn never be reassured.

[@franky6458]

Those two things don't sound mutually exclusive. He seems to know at some level he is afraid of his emotional intensity so he is looking for someone who can contain it for him. Then he can stop being 'afraid'.

[@le_th_]

"I only use cocaine 2-3 times a month" "You're psychoanalyzing me" Threatens to have to find another therapist Justifies having unprotected sex with multiple partners because there is "a pill" Claims "You're homophobic" Claims trying to force "heteronormative" values on him by questioning random, anonymous hookups "You're like my old therapist" who couldn't deal when things got intense "You keep laughing at me." "You're frustrated with me as I am calm now, so how do I know you won't be frustrated when you see all my emotions???" "I'm supposed to make YOU not frustrated with me???" ...and this is only 20 minutes...

[@ThreetwoOne-wu7ye]

So, your honor? Guilty I guess? The thing is, why is he acting this way. What is he trying to do and why?

[@pope1089]

Big child. Waste of time talking to them. The mental battles with them all the time that they think your in with them. Exhausting

[@pope1089]

​@@ThreetwoOne-wu7yeto win

[@ThreetwoOne-wu7ye]

@@pope1089 why are you here?

[@pope1089]

@@ThreetwoOne-wu7ye how insulting, quite narcistic really. I problem know more on the subject than you after you going to college for years. Molla head

[@dottyp137]

It seemed to me that he was expecting a magic trick. I want A,B and C full stop 🛑 He wants to get what he wants without doing what is required to get it 🤷‍♀️, but instead of realising that is the problem he is blame shifting. Wow you need to have a lot of patience. Hats off to you Doctor.

[@carolynforge8586]

Because he's a narcissist.

[@Dr.Daniela.Psychology]

As a psychologist is so hard to say to the client: “ try to reduce the amount of substance abuse”. 😢Thank you for this kind of patient!

[@LeandroVelez7]

I’m hearing: “I want to be aware but I don’t want to go through the discomfort of difficult emotions that being aware we require. I want to see but my defenses keep me from looking.”

[@godthesonhasilluminatedme]

From what I gather from this video along with experience with others whom I believe to be narcissists is: that any simple question which could lead to a deep conversation gets twisted and turned quite often. Moreover, the questions are potential LAND MINES if you don’t tread carefully and slowly

[@enatp6448]

That is hard to watch! Yes it's a tough client but I think there are points where this therapist could have been a lot more skilled at managing the alliance. Feels like it was going in the opposite direction of that.

[@uroboroh]

Exactly my thoughts. As a patient I would not be ready to open up to a person who is this detached and doesn't empatize. Even if the therapist is not explicitly judgemental, it feels like he is implicitly judgemental. He has this "I am OK you are not OK" attitude typical of psychiatrists working in closed psychiatric wards.

[@bradleyriddell4745]

All feelings are allowed, all behaviours aren’t….!!!

[@breannaswagerty7075]

I can sense this therapist's frustration and that would make me uncomfortable as a client as well.

[@adhdself-love]

Yup. I second this.

[@vellytyre5658]

who cares, the dr is still human he is allowed to react. thats the problem with ppl w/personality disorders, ITS NOT ALL ABOUT YOU!

[@cybergypsies]

One is not undergoing therapy in order to feel comfortable... yes, the therapist is a human being, and he actually is doing well in terms of self-control, in front of so much verbal and energetic aggression. What matters for the client is the outcome of the therapy. From a transpersonal perspective, here the therapist is facing the spirit of cocaine, one of the most terrible vectors of darkness in our corrupted western society. He might not be fully aware of the spiritual dimension of his work. Existence is complex! ;)

[@sallyann985]

​​@@vellytyre5658 if you're a therapist you're indeed advised not to cave to your human weaknesses and react the way most other people would in a peer-to-peer relationship. Take a chill pill.

[@sallyann985]

​​@@cybergypsies lots of nonsense to put together into just one comment... 🙄

[@NkaujKabLiaThoj]

This is heartbreaking to watch. I understand that the therapist has to protect himself and set expectations but when a patient is dealing with what seems like an infinite inconsolable suffering, I would understand why some people would rather do drugs than to attend one of these sessions. As someone who once suffered an incomprehensible amount of pain, I feel for this patient and I’m proud he even showed up to therapy. This is the first step to healing. Now he just has to find the therapist that he is able to professionally connect with.

[@catalinachameleon]

If I understand accurately, there is a note above that this is a role play with an actor, to demonstrate a kind of dilemma that might occur in therapy.

[@ThreetwoOne-wu7ye]

I don't relate to the suffering. regarding NPD Could you eexpand?

[@adhdself-love]

You hate yourself so much that you have to make other people your bad guy. You can't face what you think of as absolutely DISGUSTING about yourself such as needing love (yuck! gross! pathetic! If I were lovable, I would automatically be loved, since I feel unlovable because I am not being loved, it's either I am disgusting because I am unlovable, or that other people are just not seeing how lovable I actually am. I must convince others that they are simply not seeing the real, lovable me, so, I will make a bad guy for them to compare me to. Then they will see, I am innocent and capable and good, therefore worthy of being loved; THEY are bad, and gross and disgusting and awful because they dont deserv love and compared to me, now that we are side by side for contrast, should be obvious!) Displacing those feelings into an external vessel so you don't feel as disgusting and ugly and terrible and stupid and unworthy. If the bad guy is out there, he is not in me, therefore he is not me, then at least I can have a reason to use the oxygen I'm usually am afraid to realize that I feel as if I'm selfishly and undeservedly taking up to sustain someone so unworthy if life as I. The problem is that this is a young child's defense against "being" bad and wrong. Now we get sinister for real: Turning on your own child and making them take your immaturely-dealt-with inner, delusional garbage is vile and reprehensible. Now you are a real bad guy who cannot face how bad he is and to save himself, this now truly terrible person, he sacrifices his child so he can be the good one in his own fucking delusional head and heartless chest cavity. Thus is a case of becoming what you hate about yourself. Suffering needs to be dealt with healthfully, meaning that the narcissist needs to actually have the spine to not find themselves disgusting for needing love. This is tough. I'm not gonna lie. This is really brave work. Then it is a matter of consistency in recognizing that every, little time you want to make someone into a bad guy when YOU feel shame over bei g stupid or not up to snuff in some way, that you are probably partially responsible for the sudden appearance of this external bad guy and to think the interaction over, even if you were impulsive and reacted to their perceived maltreatment of you, just reflect and eventually, over many instances of doing this, you will start to see fewer bad guys so quickly, then fewer bad guys, overall. It is a LONG ROAD. But some of us irresponsible assholes can become compassionate for others and ourselves over time and PRACTICE even with having made so many mistakes and ruined relationships of all depths. But with guts, and real determination, and with much less cowardice it can be done. Sometimes, we don't immediately turn on someone place the blame onto them so we turn them into a bad guy who hurt us, therefore is unkind and undeserving of our respect. Respect of course, delusion ally, means treated as people vs being treated as garbage. It is difficult. Many fail for real because they stop trying when they fail temporarily; and resign to being never good enough, and become the permanent, delusional bad guy, for real. "If you all hate me, then I WILL become hate able, and only seek kindness from people who deserve my kindness." All internal struggle of a narcisistically defensive person. It's hard to be open to believing that others aren't disrespectful of you, but keep trying and you will succeed and then keep succeeding.

[@ThreetwoOne-wu7ye]

​@@adhdself-love In fact my question was about your mention of our suffering as NPD. What did you mean by this 'inconsolable suffering' we allegedly have ? I didn't ask for another long self-righteous and self-serving victim litany..

[@ThreetwoOne-wu7ye]

@@adhdself-love And no, Dr Freud, you haven't figured it all out.

[@deadprivacy]

blimey...this guy is a kitten in comparison to the 4 narcs in my family...they would never attend therapy in the first place though...

[@alchemicalsoul]

This is why worksheets are helpful because they allow the person to draw conclusions on their own. General talk is contentious to the person. I allow the worksheet or the activity to evoke their emotions. They are much less resistant.

[@beadbrainjewelry8666]

Dr Yeomans you are a wonderful human being. You are Patient and kind and understanding, yet firm with the expectations of what is needed to make the sessions successful. Despite the attacks on you by the client your love for people transcends the situation. Masterfully done❤

[@psyflix4325]

An expert from whom we can learn a lot! Thank you for watching!

[@CB19087]

This is giving me anxiety 😅

[@njc1903]

Me too.

[@Indie_Art]

Such an interesting video. Also, who of the participants is narcissistic? The patient, or the therapist with pretty much all the narcissistic traits showed up in 15 mins time. Arogance, entitelment, covert control and psychological manipulation tactics. Very strange, as the patient (if that's the one with narcissistic disorder) seems collected, sincere although defensive, but quite righteously.. This video put an interesting perspective about a topic.

[@cinexeon]

This is very un cometa el to watch. But it is very courageous for you to post with integrity and honesty. Because this is what therapy is like is real life sometimes. Thank you for willing to take the risk. ❤

[@psyflix4325]

Thank you for watching! Indie is a talented actor and Dr. Yeomans is as always a wonderful therapist.

[@scottbailey7150]

Great to See You again Dr Yeomans The Way You Articulate personality disorders is compelling

[@psyflix4325]

Thank you so much! You can find the entire series on Psyflix, as well as a Masterclass given by Dr. Yeomans.

[@accordionSWE]

Brilliant! Thank you for posting this lecture by Dr. Frank Yeomans. This is really good content.

[@psyflix4325]

Glad it was helpful!

[@prajna.paramita]

What an admirable patience, keeping a benevolent attitude, with boundaries, accept the devaluation (the aggression, the making of rules, the testing whether the therapist is even good enough for “my holy self”, the deep insecurity, the interruptions…,), and at the same time keep and convey the therapeutic perspective…good therapists are doing invaluable service.

[@MicheleLHarvey]

Oh dear...the word oppositional comes to mind as well as the body language speaking volumes.

[@germanarovinelli5973]

So grateful to be on the other side of Narcissistic Abuse Syndrome. I THANK MY THERAPIST for telling me that I had been viscously narcissistically abused and didn’t know it…. Get away from these people and get a life worth living

[@alpheuswoodley8435]

This was excellent.

[@teganflyman5352]

This is great. So good. Both here are incredible.

[@wenxu7484]

This looks more like a first session for setting up how therapy look like for them. Please double check the description.

[@marshall3759]

"I'll take that into account" sent me😂

[@yifatcarmi3380]

This was amazing!

[@psyflix4325]

Thank you for your feedback!

[@everett8610]

And you CHOSE this profession

[@davidemm829]

Oppositional, glib, the therapists ideals are taken as a conflict

[@ThreetwoOne-wu7ye]

Hi, interested, can you develop? (NPD who knows quite a bit).

[@RippleDrop.]

Isn't a therapist supposed to psychoanalyse their patient and offer that to the patient?

[@user-jp1hs6sl3h]

He's judging the therapist for psychoanalyzing him. But that's the entire purpose of it. To figure out what makes the person's mind tick. If you take a person's words at face value, that's how you become manipulated. If you really want to know why a person does what they do, you have to be able to understand how their mind works. The definition of why you would psychoanalyze someone. His feeling of judgement and criticism is probably a strong indicator of having a personality disorder. Even when it's just pointing out obvious observations in how he conducts himself and interacts with the world around him

[@GuyVinmara]

Does anyone else agree...that was exhausting to watch.

[@pope1089]

I'm here aren't I. I heard that one alot

[@uroboroh]

As a patient I would not be ready to open up to a person who is this detached. Somehow the communication is very much "in the head", I do not feel heart. Even if the therapist is not explicitly judgemental, it feels like he is implicitly judgemental. He has this "I am OK you are not OK" attitude typical of psychiatrists working in closed psychiatric wards.

[@creadorcontenido6970]

Lol a pain in the ass... great doctor

[@Starstorm111]

I would personally say, the therapist body lenguage ( I admire this man and his work btw ) but his body posture from what I’ve been studying is a posture that speaks superiority.. I’m not sure if I’m an unconscious level it’s sending some message if I’m better than you or superior in position in this situation… which I guess could be triggering for a person with narcissism on an unconscious level and not help to establish a connection. I’m taking into account also, this is a simulation but just my view..

[@brandonmcalpin9228]

This is why Kohut created Self Psychology 😂 You have to listen empathically and not criticize them or tell them what to do. Listen, ask questions and very, very subtly Incept the idea of what should be done so they believe it’s their idea. I don’t see this type of therapy working. I’m getting hyper-vigilant and defensive for him. This is a devaluation trigger waiting to happen. I value Frank’s wisdom. I read his material all the time, I just can’t imagine sitting through a session of his. Phew. I’d go into competition mode real quick

[@GeorgeQuinton]

Obviously, I don't know what had happened before that exact session but am I the only person that felt that although the patient was quite rude about it, he was right that the doctor had jumped all too easily into labelling his substance use and sex behaviours as problematic? I think it's quite hard to establish a productive client-therapist relationship when the latter takes such a strong stance and puts his promiscuity in opposition to having fulfilling emotional connections so easily. Moreover, when Dr Yeomans admits that he's frustrated with the client, wouldn't it be helpful to assure him at the same time that it's therapist's own emotions, not an objective judgement of the situation and it's more about the way the patient has worded his disagreement than the fact that he disagrees itself?

[@lorenzrosenthal119]

Both handled themselves very well! Kudos to both of them! It seemed very authentic! Wow! Needed to read the description to find out the patient is an actor.

[@user-ii1ox3he6f]

Guy doesn’t want to be in therapy and won’t do the work. Cut him loose.

[@psyflix4325]

Thank you for your comment. To get more context of these therapy sessions, we invite you to visit Psyflix! 😊 - Indie is also an actor who plays his role very well :-)

[@le_th_]

@@psyflix4325 If he's an actor and *not* a narcissist, he deserves an award. Seriously. That is very well acted, and very accurate. Kudos to him.

[@ThreetwoOne-wu7ye]

I am a vulnerable NPD. You are right in a sense but you wouldn't be able to explain why he is reluctant or unmmotivated. As an NPD who has pprogressed enough to understand exactly what is going on while you don't. What work?

[@healthyforpurpose1898]

The therapist could have been a little empathic

[@tmrsfitz1967]

Blame blame blame 😮never ending story

[@le_th_]

Blame shifting table turning deflecting obfuscating finger pointing gaslighting lying overtly lying covertly partial truth telling lying by omission ...and it never ends It's like he's a child playing Whack-A-Mole and Yeoman is the mole popping up to say, well let's look at this and *BONK* he smashed the mallet on his head.

[@martin-fc4kk]

You should say in the TITLE that the guy is an actor.

[@trevorleake2010]

Or just make that wig visible in the thumbnail

[@marvinedwards3130]

Was this real session or role play ?

[@alexmarques2398]

Role play

[@PaletaLee]

My problem is that wig. It's triggering my adhd like I can't hear anything anymore. I'd 100% mock him all along. 😅

[@tazerdemt7354]

I got angry by just watchinh it😅

[@inge5264]

Its like the conversations I have with my boyfriend. And then its: i am just asking and i am trying to understand. Thats just how I am. Grrrrr

[@notaclue822]

Being a shrink is obviously very hard work. You can see that most people with NPD wouldn't even go for therapy. Theyre so defended.

[@graemesutton2919]

Kudos to the psychologist. Even though I can see the projections through theslabnted accusations , I found it triggering and frustrating to watch.

[@lrrrruleroftheplanetomicro6881]

Hmm, any analysts here who have a good reading on whether (low doses of) psychedelics can be a useful adjunct for this type therapy? Only a patient, but my gut says yes. imho the polar opposite of co*aine, which I despise as destructive despite or because of my NPD ;-) Different topic - looking at this, I'm thinking my therapeutic progress is slow, caus I'm too unwilling to project my negative feelings at my therapist. Damnit.

[@mikechisha8654]

I'm shocked that this disorder is real. So much like my wife. She defends everything...justifies everything....blames me for everything....knows everything....loves to control everything...and unfortunately is so gloomy all the time

[@Honey-Flower]

jees, why does a karakter like him wants a therapy if he has to be sold on the idea to learn about himself...??

[@BiomedicalDesigns]

Very arrested development. Plumpy baby, teenager vibe combined. Avoidance of emptiness leading to self-pleasuring - probably food, admits to drugs on occasion and sex with multiple partners. Getting to his core beliefs, leading to his feelings and actions would help this person IMO. I would recommend hypnotherapy. He has to come to the determination.

[@mackamacmillan5875]

Super frustrating!! No insight whatsoever!! I don't know how they do it! The defense mechanisms galore!😂

[@lenadiveeva586]

Indi Nile jou are playing narcissist?

[@user-my6fc4iq1z]

What is this man's prognosis? I don't see this client motivated to change.

[@MJHW-st7dt]

"I'm right you're wrong" - the same answer to every question

[@heathwilkie5211]

“I feel like you’re psychoanalysing me”. 😂 What did you pay him for mate?

[@joannemckay6631]

This bloke will be going to therapy for the rest of his life?...hes closed off and wants his own way

[@nandutzu]

You probably got to this video by accident or chance. If you're interested, read a little bit about narcissism, NPD. These are traumatized people, but, nonetheless, human beings.

[@naynay680]

really though one, ı mean the narcissictic one ! it goes on and on and on.. seems to abuse million times

[@marcinm9102]

It's a material what if psychologist is a narcissist

[@angelicacroitoru4946]

I had a weird feeling couple years ago in one of the first sessions with a psycologist. I was talking about my background, my mother's mental issues, how was my living back then in my native country, while living abroad now. Suddenly she interrupts me asking :"Why are you ,Romanian people think that you are God ? I freezzed in that moment, and I got home feeling a mess Also ,as I was there for severe anxiety and depresión and I worried about neglecting my daughter, she told me I should ask my 14 years daughter to cook and to clean the house as she had to do It in her youth. I know I was in a very bad place mentaly, but still to this day I cannot come to a sense of this experience.

[@francoisdupouy6956]

Run away

[@edgreen8140]

Minimization, defelection, starting to get angry at frank and that will happen. Denial attempting to use projective identification and devaluation of frank. Minimization of harming others. Blameshifting will take a long time to reduce maybe. Nice splitting of therapist is bad frank may be bad. He may never reach all this stuff he projects he owns.patient is bodering on you trying to control everyting and ask for a warantee

[@baysideharpy8350]

Is wearing a terrible wig a sign of narcissism too?

[@itr6540]

Is it ok the way Dr Yeomans is sitting in the therapy room? Maybe it is a cultural thing, but it does not feel right for me. It feels like he is not open and approachable. ( and can you not criticize a therapists? Have you never heard about extremely wrong therapy experiences?)

[@writer2804]

Agree. His body language radiates 'defensiveness', and yet, he urges the client to open up...

[@bluedragon7925]

The patient either doesn't want to change or only do so on his own terms, which can never work. Everyone else is to blame, apparently.

[@nodozhit]

I think the guy asked fair questions, especially his first one here. And overall, he showed up and was present in his cause to get a therapist that gets him. We shouldn't judge either person because they both gave us perfect examples of being vulnerable- which is not a textbook blueprint because we all have our differences and some kind of vice. My psychotherapist says narcissism is on a spectrum which ranges from mild to moderate to severe. And it's believed that most severely narcissistic people don't actively seek out treatment.

[@naturandmor]

Narcissism can not be healed. Sorry for that😐

[@therealNPD]

This comment is toxic. 🙃

[@naturandmor]

@@therealNPD not, but the replay to it.

[@travelbug4536]

Flaming narcissist.

[@juliettailor1616]

This isn't a real client is it? Because if it is 1) Dr Yeoman is a saint and 2) there are some people not worth trying to save...

[@PeterShaw-ne1yq]

Your getting there😉

[@ThreetwoOne-wu7ye]

I was worse!!

[@mooninaries4397]

What a rude comment. You’re talking about a person!

[@mielenalkemiaa]

​@@ThreetwoOne-wu7yedid you get better?

[@ThreetwoOne-wu7ye]

@@mielenalkemiaa Not too well these days. Thank you for asking.

[@MichNative01]

This guy doesn't want help, he is countering everything the therapist is suggesting. Why is he on this video?? I'm glad I'm not working g on this guy.

[@sirrantsalott]

Nice toupee 😂

[@WTFlux-lh2tf]

BRINGING up climate change was an utter fail. FAR too many scientists and experts claiming it's FALSE to in ANY way caste light on a certain truth. So POLITICAL and THOROUGHLY unnecessary!

[@onlyonce1707]

The therapist is speaking too much really. Maybe because it's being filmed. The patient needs some space to get into it and start talking.

[@mathews0618]

Waste of time

[@rhomboidman]

Therapist really needs nerves of steel for this.

[@sugarsnap1000]

The ‘patient’ is twisting the doctors narrative to fit into his world view. I think he wants the doctor to understand him and to affirm him rather than, him understanding the doctor and taking his lead. He’s displaying manipulative tactics used by addicts too. He’s lost in his own mind/personality. It’ll take some time to break that down. I think some people aren’t suited to therapy but go through the motions.

[@ThreetwoOne-wu7ye]

Yeah but what does 'the patient' gain? Addcîcts want something? Real questions (altough ABout boing through the motions: not bad but you wouldn't know why, neither does that guy while I do know. Because I 'went through the motions'.

[@sugarsnap1000]

@@ThreetwoOne-wu7ye so tell me I’m interested to understand

[@ThreetwoOne-wu7ye]

@@sugarsnap1000 Okay but first share what you had in mind. Why would the patient do that?

[@sugarsnap1000]

@@ThreetwoOne-wu7ye deep down they know the therapist can’t help, in some cases it may be too conceptual & strong willed people or addicts are set in their ways and views. Another aspect is they would become bored attending and or not fully grasp what the doctors trying to achieve, find his narrative useless and without proper structure just not bother. The doctor is giving patient chance to cooperate and choose how the sessions will work, but maybe this approach is the wrong one. Going through the motions might be, a partner, parent, authority etc. encouraging person to attend. Therefore person going through process as required.

[@ThreetwoOne-wu7ye]

​@@sugarsnap1000 i realize that I would have to write a whole book to answer this question. Ok about the patient twisting...thing: We only know what we know and we can't really seize other ways. We think we know better but that's just because that's how we built ourselves. Also contradicting the shrink is often an effort. Daring to say how it is for us (don't have the energy to expand). About going through the motion: you are right and about the conceptual thing as well. We are not in command and shrinks talk to us as if we were. The patient is a child. He hasn't grown an internal parent because he used self-hatred as a means to have the illustion to stay in control, to win over life. So, we are children emotionally. We are unrooted. We see others who seem to have their life in hand but we feel that we are missing a part and can never achieve that. This is what Yeomans fails to grasp. Same with Diamond. Very early on, we have sent a false self into the world to do the job of living. Since life was against us (which we had decided after experiencing great fear as babies - again making life events about you is actually reassuring). So life being against us, we sent someone else. That someone else was us BUT we distrusted that other self that played by the rules. That other selfy was a traitor. This is what the ambivalance is about in vulnerable NPD (in grandiose NPD the identification to the false self succeeds). So when Yeomans speaks to that guy about adult stuff, the patient feels indeed that he can never achiev all that. It is actually unfair to ask him to expect maturity from him. It's unconscious. We just try to do what we can. We are not lying or anything. It's the only way we know. We know the concept of 'adult' and do our best. People say we are not accountable for our 'bad' deeds. Yes sometimes, because we see that thing that is ourself a traitor. And we feel we deserve some compensation from the awful bullying we exert on ourselves all day long (we don't know anything else). That bully made the integration and growth of a gentle, containing and yet firm parent impossible. We have no self-soothing abilities Also, whatever wonderful things we may achieve, it wasn't us, but that thingll. And therapy makes us even more guilty. This is why I wished Yeomans and co. would understand that they are not addressing an adult, but a child that distrusts the person out there in therapy. It is not that clear cut. But that's the idea. Healing means growing up. It is an organic process. This is why telling someone they are narcissist and expecting them to change their 'bad behavior' is stupid. Behaviors come from someone. I don't have time to talk about other forms of resistance which in fact are the same as in the couple. Which people call NPD abuse. So when I hear Yeomans comment on the coke and so oon, what I feel he misses is the whole ambivalence. The false self (who is the true self, we are not psychopath) plots against this adult world and against the shrink... Transgression, turning agains the self, all of this is part of the construct. And we don't understand a damn thing. I rejected my husband, had contempt for him trying to connect and rejected him a lot because (as it turned out), he wasn't smiley (like my mum, and smiles are vital to a baby). I didn't get bored in therapy but did feel like it didn't help. My shrink was a good one but still, there were misunderstandings that put me off,. It didn't work out. He remained someone I sort of feared or couldn't trust me although he was a good shrink. I was resentful. He would congratulate me for being collaborative when I didn't feel I was. I felt he WANTED me to get better for his own sake. I don't.know. I felt like he really left me alone with my load, pretending it didn't exist, namely the fact that I was a child. For example: He once said the best for me would be to love my husband the way he was. I felt totally hopeless. I wanted to.but believed it was totally impossible. How could my shrink not know by the time?? My husband had to be strong. I coudn't see anything appealling in loving him as a whole person, with his flaws. Now I do, but it took very very long... Now, I can see the beauty of loving someone with their flaws. But you have to be an adult to see that. I feel like Shrinks somehow overlook this. I don't have the answer but I feel that this 'false self' resented as a traitor by the inner child is crucial and should be addressed. I have a friend who did a group therapy which really used the body. People would litterally be lying by two, one on the other. It worked on the emotions. These 2 friends had similar problems to me and said it saved their life. they are doing very welll. PDs are rooted in babyhood. The solution is in the body in my sense. IMAO.. Hope that helped Exhausted