Narcissistic relationships and hoarding disorder

[@jharveyswag]

Dr. Ramani is the mother we always wanted but never got.💜

[@gertrudewest4535]

Amen

[@ABC-we4gv]

I love my mum....but.....Dr. Ramani is the psychologist I always wanted and have never gotten.

[@jharveyswag]

Watching Dr. Ramani’s videos have opened my eyes to some very unhealthy family dynamicss and she saved me from myself. Researching, studying, learning, and educating myself over the last 10+ years now to not only her videos but MedCircle’s videos as well as countless articles, sites, you name it, anything I could find and get my hands on. I’ve watched nearly every episode if not EVERY SINGLE VIDEO and she explains it in such a way that is not only informative and educational, but she makes you feel like you’re not crazy, not alone, and makes sense of some very high conflict and unhealthy shit you may be experiencing in your own life. And it blows my mind how psychology is all generalized but at times it can also pretty much be so precise about someone’s life as well. Unfortunately, I am one of those adult children who can’t have a relationship with their parents because theyre so toxic and unhealthy in just about every way possible and because there is absolutely nothing positive to gain from staying in this relationship/family whatsoever. You make us actually feel SAFE AND HEARD. Thank you for your words of wisdom, I love watching your videos, and I watch multiple videos everyday. Sometimes more than once a day. Thank you, Doctor Ramani. You’re truly a life saver.💜🤘🏼

[@danchandler7112]

I agree

[@princessak21]

Same here

[@NarcSurvivor]

Narcissists always hold on to objects from their past. Especially objects from past relationships. It gives them supply. They also hold grudges and resentment against people from their past. They can’t let go, because their hatred towards these people is a distraction from their own insecurities and their hatred for themselves.

[@ai172]

Well said!

[@dylancrang8810]

Perfectly said 👍🏼 :-)

[@joseenoel8093]

Fuel from their past gives them ambition/steam/energy (🙄) for their future. 🙂 🙋

[@laurawilliams7407]

So true. The narc kept everything from the past. His BR was covered with all of these things. There was almost no paint visible on his walls. He hung it all, small and large objects too. He destroyed the Sheetrock with all the hardware.

[@suzanmatthew225]

True!

[@ClueSign]

As the daughter of a now 87 year-old narcissist mother with every closet in the house stuffed with her clothing, much of it with tags still on it, boxes of dried-out pens, scraps of paper, bank records from the 60s, every shelf loaded with cheap trinkets and knick-knacks, and who resists any effort to sort through their things, I felt every word of this.

[@klee_of_c8082]

You and I are in the exact same boat. My Mom is 90, still in her home. I have been quietly hauling away things she won’t notice missing. Yes, you & I are in the same boat. But thanks to Dr Ramani & this recovering community, we are not sinking! Good luck to you.

[@nancylittle3059]

ClueSign and Klee …………thank you for sharing! I am not alone!

[@NerdsWorldNYC]

Ugh...my late mom. What I would do,if she had to go to the hospital (dx with mengionoma ) a and they would keep her for three days for observation. I would clean up her stuff (hoarding ) that she hadn't used or much less touched and have them in garbage bags and ready for sanitation before she returned home. It's too much new junk,old clothes, furniture (stashed in the attic ).

[@sm_au]

I hear you! Trying to pack up my narcissist mother’s belongings as she has to move. She has to examine every scrap of paper before she decides what to with it. 99.9% she is taking it with her. She has so many tea-chests of stuff. She sits Iike a queen on the throne surrounded by it all. It’s caused me a lot of distress trying to pack her hoard. She told the rest of family, I was throwing out her stuff ... not true. Family is overseas, they don’t have the pressure of moving her. Narcissist rage, smearing my name, triangulating, it’s brought out the nasty in her. Memories, narcissist “trophies”, it’s all there in her endless piles of stuff.

[@edennis8578]

@@sm_au So why are you putting yourself through that? Inheritance? If so, you better hope that she #1 doesn't give everything to her lawn man the way my mom did or her nurse like my aunt did, or to just one sibling before she dies like my mother-in-law did. My mil gave her house to her daughter outright before she died, as well as power of attorney. My sister-in-law used that power of attorney to put all of the bank accounts in her name, stealing about $800,000 from her 3 brothers.

[@timothygenaw2199]

I don't want anyone to be stuck with a ton of work if I die. Getting rid of things = respect for others.

[@tinam761]

Yes AND sometimes you can be in such a place ... for a long time ... that just trying to function for the day feels like all you can do. Taking on the project of organizing and reducing what one has feels overwhelming- like you don’t know where to start, and if you only have an hour you feel like why bother... it’s only one hour. Also, sometimes I find for myself that my mental health is so low that the best thing I can do is focus on my mental health and what I have to do (like work...) our energy is finite. For me, I’ll have important things in one place and every thing else can just be donated. It’s organized fairly well... I just have too much in a little place. I do think of my children and what kind of work I might leave them with ... I do want to be much more organized... my depression, ADHD and OCD can throw a wrench 🔧 in the work sometimes... AND I know that does nothing to fix things ... so I’m chipping away at things but by bit.

[@boodle2418]

Thank you so much for saying that. My narc mother has no respect for me, she is an angry hoarder.

[@demi3115]

It's not that simple. Letting other decide if (and what) they want to keep = respect for others.

[@karenabrams8986]

My mother used to express glee at the notion of everyone fighting over her hoard just like she fought with her sister over grandmas estate which was an awful time. I was 14 and starting to get a big clue my mom is an awful human. I eventually walked away after too many years of sickening trauma and repeatedly being wounded and stuck in a pattern with them I couldn’t change. My sister got caught up in that mindset with my mom. She can have it all. My health, freedom and autonomy are not for sale!

[@Luna-ky3jl]

@Mimi Sayles-Cole wow he definitely has no respect to your things and your person

[@Michellencj0920]

I have struggled with hoarding for most of my life. However, it became really evident during my relationship with my narcissistic ex. I didn't quite realize why at the time, but i was attempting to keep hold of any sense of my own identity. I wanted to surround myself with things I enjoyed, and then thought if I have more (and more) of these things then someone else will also finally see and acknowledge me and my identity. I cannot tell you how much i needed this today. Thank you.

[@lynnehylands5942]

I have always felt being married to a narcissist has allowed him to “erase” me. Your comment to how hoarding is your way of holding onto yourself. It resonates with me. Hope you are coping well now.

[@janiecepoush1904]

I have a SIS.💕that is a Hoarder… To the Ceiling… Full Garage, & 2 Storage units they have paid for… For 12 + years. She is Loved so Much, by ALL & is Married to a Nice Man that Tries Hard to Show His Love, (though like All… Not perfect). What most do not Realize is WHAT DR RAMANI Explained… She has Terrible Trauma From Childhood, that Only I Saw! I can see how Other Trauma has Stuck to those Old Wounds! She has so many that Love Her! She has a Big & Generous Heart! I recognized DR. R’s Sharing of the Indecision & Every Ounce of Her Holding On Excuses Under the Sun! I PRAY For Her So Much & Need Her In my Life… She is my Sister-Friend that I Love with /my Whole Heart! I I hate that she Has Turned Off & Buried her PAIN under a Mountain! I do not CARE what her house looks like (& through all ~ She is very clean & Cooked every Night while Raising her Family). What I care about, is HER HAPPINESS… As the ‘Stuff’ caving in… Holds her Heart & Spirit to Her Pain & Blinds her to the “TRUE TREASURES” in her life… ALL THOSE THAT LOVE HER SO MUCH! But, the Indecision & Lies She Has Swallowed fm her Childhood have BECOME HER TRUTH ABOUT WHO SHE THINKS SHE IS. The Assaults fm Childhood were soooooo TERRIBLE… So too… This post Resonated, as How SHE is LOVED, never SINKS-IN to HER HEART & so, “THINGS” Became Her Comfort ZONE for Filling the EMPTINESS! 🙏🏻 PLEASE JOIN ME IN SAYING WORLD PRAYERS ~ For ALL Abused Children & Adults w/Wounded HEARTS throughout the World! PRAY that the Children will be Rescued! Pray that the BROKEN HEARTED will accept the Atonement to HEAL their PAIN 100%! ~ And FORGIVE Themselves & Their Abuser (s)! 🙏🏻💛🔆🕊🍃

[@alyjiyu]

Oooh... I really felt this. Completely get the chop-logic reasoning behind it, having done so in the past... Feeling invisible prompts a need to surround yourself with select objects that mirror you back to yourself... So you won't disappear.

[@wildlifegardenssydney7492]

@@alyjiyuyour comment 🎯❤️

[@urszula6900]

You describe exactly my experience. My “ hoarding” problem miraculously resolved the moment I left my ex husband , a total narc. Hoarding as a way to “ keep hold of any sense of the identity “ , it makes so much sense,

[@marshaferron5374]

I have suffered narcissist abuse, and I had a really bad hoarding disorder. Now that I removed or went no contact with the many narcissist in my life I am getting rid of all the crap I wasted money on. I realize I dont need it and I spent so much money on "stuff" that is suppose to enrich my life and it did the exact opposite.

[@verabolton]

At last! Someone understands the video! So many comments are here about "yeah, my narc is a hoarder" ... people do not listen, maybe they didn't even watch the video... I truly wonder if they are the narc and calling their victims a narc... hah!

[@resarm5007]

@@verabolton I was thinking the same. I'm also recovering from this disorder and seeking psychiatric help is not something a narc would do. I've had several narc partners and never knew what that was til about 3 years ago. Now I'm learning and my sister and I have been taking the time to go thru stuff and donate or recycle or trash anything that is not needed. It is very freeing. I feel relief when stuff leaves. I built up literal walls to protect myself from people and I'm reclusive. I have gone months without leaving my house. Now I'm really working on healing, as I've been diagnosed with PTSD, MDD, and SAD.

[@chargennaro976]

@@verabolton hoarding disorder and the video doctor Romani it is explaining that both trauma experienced people who experienced narcissistic abuse and also narcissist personality disorder people themselves can be Hoarders. People who have experienced narcissistic abuse trauma or loss and grief multiple losses can have hoarding disorder. So it's both

[@Queenly2024]

Took care of a woman for 3 months and after 25 years she is having to let stuff go as the govt is fixing her house. I had to go as I couldnt stand the mess. She couldnt/wouldn't even put dishes in the dishwasher! I am not her maid. Some people are just takers as I saw her manipulation.

[@Dynamic_heart]

I am happy for you. Congratulations for surviving two difficult situations. You are a strong person and inspire others. Thank you for sharing. Have a great weekend. 💚

[@Consciousparty]

She said many times hoarders have suffered from narcissistic abuse and this is why they are hoarders, NOT hoarders are narcissists. SOMETIMES hoarders can be narcissists.

[@mustangsally7722]

Thank you for clarifying that.

[@starlight3455]

yes … i'm actually quite disappointed dr.ramani didn't elaborate further in regard to this particular aspect of "hoarding" … reading through the comments it seems many have interpreted "hoarder = narcissist" which is definitely not the case.

[@uyoebyik]

Hoarders are the worst type of narcissists

[@tuffguydoe7937]

I agree, I found family pictures picture my mother took from my grandfather funeral that she didn't return to her siblings. I didn't understand my mom's want for childhood pictures of my cousins given to my grandfather until I started understanding narcissism. My mother gave me hell when I mailed childhood pictures and arts/crafts to their rightful owners. Narcissism is prevalent in my mother's family, she sure is the hoarder.

[@uyoebyik]

@@tuffguydoe7937 my mother had loads of photos of people she didn't even know that she took from her aunts house after he aunt died. Everything was just thrown is dirty dusty piles. My mother is a narcissist. In the end she wouldn't throw away any food packaging or rotten food. The air in the house was full of dust and mold spores. It affected our asthma very badly. She blamed some horses in a nearby field, insisting that I must be allergic to horses!!! I'm not allergic to horses. I am the enemy because I interfered with her hoard

[@lorigirl65]

I never thought that my hoarding was connected narcissistic abuse. It isn't an excuse, but my hoarding definitely makes sense now. I always felt a hole in my, soul so to speak, which I attempted to fill with things bought from shopping. I did this for the better part of 28 years married to a narcissist. As his abuse increased, so did my spending & hoarding. Now, 2 years after being divorced , I have the daunting task of getting rid of all my stuff.

[@steggopotamus]

I always thought it could also be from feeling like you can't trust anyone, so you have to have all the things for yourself, because you don't trust anyone else to help.

[@maam-yj8ph]

I appreciate this comment because I also struggle with hoarding. When I try to get rid of things, there is a definite fear of regretting throwing something I would need or a loss of identity from throwing away my expensive college education etc. or even just guilt that I am a failure for not being able to fix/properly maintain something so that it could be recycled or reused. I know I have always had a problem with this even in my younger years.

[@redhead8777]

My NARC mother (with hoarding tendencies) would go through and throw my prized possessions away while I was at school and she was "cleaning" our rooms. A clown collection, a diary & other "personally meaningful" things. Things she knew I really liked or prized. Then when I discovered it missing, she would claim I was imagining they were gone (like I never possessed the thing) or crazy to think she would discard my belongings or flat out said "I didn't touch that" or "see that." The level of PERSONAL VIOLATION & MISTRUST I felt toward her was extreme at the time. It's like being burglarized. But I quickly buried my anger and disappointment of being stripped, out of necessity, as a kid (nothing I could do about retrieval). To this day some 40 years later, she still does this, only now, it's in my own home. My level of anxiety and sometimes anger is extremely high when she does this (steals or rearranges things without asking me). Now, it seems she practices this behavior (knowing it upsets me) to cause a fight and after I react to triangulate flying monkeys sibs into thinking I am the crazy liar without boundaries on my (truthtelling) "unecessary anger" about it. It's very purposeful behavior on her part. She does not admit it as a broken boundary. When I confront her about it, she flat out lies about it to me AND to the monkeys. Without saying it to me, they (my sibs) all believe I am the narc, I'm sure. It's in how they act toward me (condescending "why are you making a big deal out of this small insignificant item) & treat me (abandoned). I hope we sibs will be able to come back together after she is no longer around playing her evil games. Not sure... As an adult, I Have experienced the need to hold on to things others probably perceive as unnecessary. I believe it comes from the unhealthy violation of discarding what was "mine" in childhood. I'm not a hoarder as in the TV shows (garbage), but I definitely find it very uncomfortable to get rid the "my things" that are special to only me. It is a matter of being possessive rather than indecisive about what matters to me. Parents, work with your children when the practice of discarding needs to be learned by a child - don't hope they won't notice it being gone & lie about it! They will & this is unhealthy boundary behavior.😢

[@susanlisson7066]

@@redhead8777How awful! It sounds like your siblings are enabling your mum’s behaviour instead of looking to reality. ​​⁠​⁠I’m so sorry your mum behaved like that with you. Mine did similar where one day she went through and decided to donate ALL of our toys to charity without even consulting us first. She kept a few that SHE thought we wouldn’t want thrown away. It was very traumatic coming home from school to find all the toys just gone. We all have a favourite toy as children & I would’ve liked to at least keep my favourite which was a stuffed toy dog. The fact that she thought it was okay just to get rid of everything changed my trust in her forever. Good luck trying to reconcile with your siblings. That sounds really challenging. I can’t reconcile with my sister who still believes I purposely set the iron in my room up to burn her on the arm. We used to iron our school uniforms before school each morning, I left the iron on one morning after I was finished as I knew she needed to also use it, I warned her the iron was on, she stumbled half awake past it and her arm briefly bumped it. I probably shouldn’t have giggled when it happened but I was about 14 years old and found it funny at the time which is what made her believe it was my fault. I did ask her if she was okay after it happened. 40 years later she still won’t let it go after I’ve explained it her on more than one occasion. We now have a strained relationship due to that plus other factors concerning my very narcissistic father whom I ended up going grey rock with. She enables his behaviour and doesn’t seem to grasp that it’s not okay for him to treat us the way he does but she puts up with him because “he’s family.”

[@wildlifegardenssydney7492]

@@susanlisson7066❤❤

[@texasmurphy7088]

Hoarding impacts Fire and EMS in ways that most people don't understand - even I wasn't prepared for it after doing special training. One of my roles when I was working for Fire was in victim advocacy and mental health, and we did an entire section of training on hoarders and how to both deal with the immediate crisis and help get resources that would continue to help down the line. Hoarders are often afraid to call 911 even when they desperately need medical help because they don't want to lose what they've accumulated. They don't want the authorities condemning their home or they've been told that they need to clean up and they can't handle it. I had to crawl through a window in a hoarder house once, cut my leg on a broken table, and ended up with MRSA - that patient had called for difficulty breathing and it turned out they were on the shady side of dead. That patient had needed help for several days but had been terrified to call because they didn't want us to see the state their house was in. Most hoarders really need compassion and patience, and I've seen too many families get fed up and angry instead.

[@kg6801]

Thank you so much for saying this. As a hoarder getting support with improving it, the shame is definitely one of the most debilitating and exacerbating parts of it, and the thoughts of the struggles or dangers emergency workers (or whoever would have to come into my home if I'd died and no one knew for a time) would have if a situation required it is one of the things that I keep in mind to keep myself working on it when I'm losing energy and hope with myself. Various ongoing supports have helped me get it from a rating scale of 6 and 7 to a 3 to 5 and I'm still reducing and getting better at letting other people come in and help me with cleaning up. Fear of anger and being shamed are what drives a lot of the avoidance, and the emotionality, stubbourness and anger that comes out under pressure. Being cornered doesn't bring out the best in anyone, but when people don't understand what's going on with hoarding disorder they think that people are just being difficult and selfish. Education, compassion and patience definitely go a long way to making a difference and turning people's lives around. Thank you for what you do.

[@freescot8035]

Well explained! And said with compassion and intellegence. Thankyou =) And I hope the MRSA is well out of your system now!

[@freescot8035]

Keep going kg - You are doing well =)@@kg6801

[@texasmurphy7088]

@@kg6801 I’m sorry I’m just now seeing this…I’m glad you’re working on yourself and learning to lean on others. Sometimes that’s the hardest thing we have to do.

[@shimmerysparkles123]

I hope you got your MRSA situation under control or healed up? Thank you for chiming in on this topic because my elderly mother is a hoarder and we currently live in old wooden houses. If something were to happen, I've told my mom, this place will go up like "match sticks"... She (my mom) knows she has a problem but she will not do anything to even help others, when her junk is in the way. To be more specific my dad has had two strokes and has a newly discovered heart issue, i told her many times, if i need to do CPR ON HIM, there's no space! Let's get this spot on the floor cleared up so i can possibly help him... she can't. She just can't. She has to have her large king size bed in the way, that she got from a flipping garage sale... it's disgusting and sad to me how worse she got with age.

[@lesleymichelle2806]

Oh man this one hits home. My mother was/is a hoarder as well as very emotionally and physically abusive and likely my first narcissistic relationship. I grew up in the 80s and there weren't shows like hoarders back then, so the few people who I told about the house (nobody was ever allowed to visit of course) couldn't understand that it was much more than a "messy house." It was a terrible way to grow up, and as the oldest of my siblings I always tried to help clean or to complain about it, which she hated me for. As a n adult I have a major issue with not liking clutter around me. I can't even imagine what her house looks like now as I haven't spoken to her nor visited in about 15 years. I can't even watch those Hoarders type of shows without being triggered. Major issue in my childhood.

[@e.paradigm7415]

Same! It’s unbelievable to me to read your comment and know that there are others who went through the same thing. No one really knows how bad it was unless they lived it. I’m happy though because I overcame it, but when I watch those shows, it always gets me if there are kids living it.

[@steggopotamus]

My main trauma from growing up in a hoarding house is knowing that in some ways, my parents valued the things over me. When my husband (at the time) showed some signs of hoarding, I panicked for a bit, until we talked about it and he got rid of one item that he didn't like as much. It helped me realize that he valued me, and if push came to shove he would value me over the items. Now, we're both getting much better at dealing with our slight hoarding tendencies.

[@summermoon22]

Good for you for taking care of yourself and not subjecting yourself to that abuse any longer.

[@Missgevious]

We could be sisters. I grew up exactly the same and feel the same way today

[@EH23831]

Love from a random stranger on the internet ♥️

[@mouniausa557]

I had to get rid of him to toss all the crap in the house. After 18 years living in a Scrab yard now I live in a clean tidy home.

[@joseenoel8093]

Nice, you took out the trash and its residual, how wonderful!

[@devonfeatherstone5294]

yes; my narc used his impulse shopping and hoarding to give him supply. More so as he got older.

[@janicerennie422]

Respect!

[@mouniausa557]

@@joseenoel8093 indeed

[@mouniausa557]

@@devonfeatherstone5294 My heart goes out to you. I feel you 😞

[@bparmenterful]

As a survivor of a long narcissistic marriage, I struggle with cleaning out a basement full of junk he left behind but I assumed it was because my decision making skills were so destroyed. I am working on it. This video has inspired me to finally face it. Thank you!

[@sandyg3772]

I had the same problem when I moved. A friend came over and went through his boxes while I sat on the bed and shook. I also had trouble cleaning out my shed, due to the reminder that this stuff represented only 15% of my belongings. I lost other 85% when I lost my home because my ex stopped paying support.

[@JenR1215]

Take as much time as you need, and baby steps.

[@Rain9Quinn]

Yes decisionmaking is really tough for narc-abuse survivors. Is for me, too.

[@Rain9Quinn]

@@sandyg3772 so sorry you sent through this💜

[@Dynamic_heart]

I'm glad for you. That's great how the information on Dr. Ramani's channel inspire. Take care.

[@Siacourage]

Hi Doctor Ramani. Can you please make a video about jealous narcissistic parents. Most people find it hard to believe that a parent can actively work to sabotage their child, even when the child is very young, because they are jealous of them. Thanks.

[@Siacourage]

@Ki Lalmn I'm sorry to hear that. Same thing happened to me. Wasted so many years of my life since I was 18. Refused to support my goals and education, and finally chased me away from home with nothing. No education, no job. Only by the grace of God I was able to land a writing gig and support myself (at least I can write). Now at 30 I'm slowly rebuilding my life.

[@thatpaintedlady2326]

Yes, I have watched my ex deliberately sabotage every one of our children from a very young age right up until they were emotionally mature enough to stand up to him. Needless to say, all of them were late bloomers and at least one is a complete wreck of a man who will not accept help from anyone. It’s all the result of failed, narcissistic parenting. I would really love to find a video on ways I can help my kids to overcome the trauma caused by their father without falling down my own shadowy rabbit hole.

[@renticat]

​@@Siacouragehey, what kind of writing gig is this? I am so stuck in my life and because of this narc parents also my life pretty much have no one at all that could help me. I wish someone could do but then they mostly lied and abused me. I think I attracted narc people because they know I am just weak. I offer to be guide in my city but then many just want plus plus guide which I didn't do and they have belittling me when I already told them I just do the honest guide. It's just so hard for me rn. The abuse also systemic as here, culturally parents hit their kid as long as their not dead is okay. Unless someone didn't find out and everything is mostly discrimination if you didn't believe in what majority believes.. It's hard

[@nadinenc3097]

My family member is a narcissist and a hoarder! She won't accept she's a hoarder and she always knows better than everyone. She's a mental health professional and very unethical. She diagnoses people but she's incredibly unenlightened about her own illnesses.

[@e.paradigm7415]

I grew up in a hoarding environment, it affected me a lot. I even unknowingly became a hoarder. The earliest memory that I can remember is packing my backpack with so much junk that I was having back pain at 8 years old from how heavy my backpack was. I didn’t realize there was a problem until my early 20’s, thank God. My little brother was the one who pointed it out, I still remember the day. We were having an argument and I remember verbatim what he said to me, “Look around, this isn’t normal. Nobody lives like this.” That was the catalyst to helping me change my lifestyle. I’ve worked so hard and am soo much more happier with my life, I get anxiety thinking about reverting back to old habits and am EXTREMELY cautious about what I buy. I’ve grown so much and not a lot of people understand where I came from. Such a dysfunctional environment, I wasn’t allowed to bring anyone home. I still struggle with socializing with people, but I have made some great friends in the recent years. Don’t give up on yourself, change can happen.

[@LEM19284]

Those colors are fantastic on you Dr. Ramani!!

[@zumbanatalieb]

My narcissistic ex hoarded MONEY. All he cared about was being stingy and adding to his savings. When I left, he had the audacity to say that his excessive overworking and stinginess was for me, to buy me a house. Where is this house then?! I don’t see it. I went without FOR NOTHING.

[@Vashti0825]

You describe my husband to a "T". I keep the house in order, which is a constant challenge. I wrote the garage off years ago. I give him that space, but forfeited a place to park the car. It is amazing the level of denial that goes along with this disorder.

[@lukebryan_official_fanspage]

Where are you from?

[@heatherrogers548]

I can relate so well. Just giving up rooms.

[@clogs4956]

I've given up tidying and cleaning the house, pretty much...

[@transitionsnc]

Agree. It's a huge level of denial. I don't understand it when the mess is right in the person's face but I know it's not rational.

[@Vashti0825]

11 months later.. he is now in assisted living. I do not tell him what's gone to the trash or the thrift store. He feels out of control, panics, claims he's going to use all of these items later. He's not only narcissistic, he's a hoarder and in a 12-step program for 38 years. I just wish he had gone to Hoarder's anonymous. He will NEVER see the problem. I am making the house my own and not looking back.

[@Shell.29]

6:25 to 9:06 *thank you for mentioning that people suffering from narcissistic abuse can hold onto too much.* I feel really bad for people enduring narcissistic hoarders, but victims can have problems too.

[@mustangsally7722]

My son was murdered and i started collecting antiques. I have no problem giving away things . my fiends and family love that. I was also married to a evil man at the same time of my sons death.

[@Shell.29]

@@mustangsally7722 I am so sorry you lost your son in the worst way, and about the husband you had as well. Hope you're more at peace now and that you feel good giving things away.

[@Portia620]

@@mustangsally7722🙏😢 no doubt an extreme tragedy don’t be so hard on yourself. We all have to learn ways to cope and I can’t imagine the pain and what you went through and you must be easy on yourself you did what helped you deal with immense pain that you could not even comprehend at one point in time it takes years to comprehend such tragedy🙏😢

[@mustangsally7722]

@@Portia620 thank you. God bless and prosper you.

[@wandaruth3833]

My mother was a narcissist (possibly a sociopath) and a severe hoarder. She broke me. I got so tired of being labeled as “OCD” because I am super neat and tidy. Even worse that my tidiness has attracted a lot of controlling people who are also narcissists who use me for free cleaning. No contact helps but it doesn’t get back the time that was stolen from me.

[@VirginiaButler-px1uw]

I also wonder if my mom was actually a sociopath....

[@brain0nfire]

This is what I was always concerned with. I didn't want to clean either so not to become an enabler and someone that is exploited by those alike. That's why I only cleaned my spaces and common rooms. They're under my rule now. If she misdemeans she is instantly humiliated and punished like the sewer rat she is.

[@VgVi13]

@wandaruth3833 My mother was the same. you couldn't sit down at the kitchen table to eat because it was so full of crap. As I look back at the narcs in my life, they are the ones with hoarding tendencies and they're just a mess. Thier cars as well as their homes. Like you, my homes have always been neat, organized, clean and nicely decorated like model homes and of course my mother was jealous. I am no contact and will be for the rest of my life. I cannot have another narc in my life ever. I'm choosing peace over the chaos, drama and abuse. :)

[@janetpattison8474]

I get a minimum of $25 / hr cleaning. Why let ppl take advantage of you & do it for free? It’s OK to say, no, sorry, the days of freebies are gone, I charge -----. Great point that no contact helps, but u can’t get the time back. I think that’s why I’m so so so annoyed , is that I lost 25 years putting up w/ a few family narcissists who found many ways to attack, both covert and grandiose.

[@brain0nfire]

@@janetpattison8474 most people can't detatch because they'll be alone. Women are less comprehensive of male children of hoarders than men are of women raised in that situation. I for one had to alienate all my friends because I couldn't live with myself with all the lies and no reciprocity. It's tough.

[@aprilharrison5702]

Dr Ramani this is the video I’ve been waiting for my whole life. My mom was the narcissist and I also grew up in her hoarded house. I know she experienced a lot of trauma but it didn’t give her any right to treat me the way she did. Everything was about her and the hoard. Everything was also about keeping the secret: the secret of the hoard at home and how I was treated behind closed doors. The amount of gaslighting that went on too. Thank you for the validation in both being a target of narcissism and being a child of a hoarder.

[@RaptureReadyforJesus-qv2ql]

Abuse is horrible and then having to keep it a secret is worse!

[@BlessingOfGods]

Ditto Sir

[@1DaTJo]

Getting free of the narcissistic mother has been like giving up a very addictive drug for me. I went through excruciating emotional pain in the first month or so. I’m emerging into a state of calm and healing, accompanied by unexpected self love and acceptance. My home is very cluttered and I have lots of music and art gear that I actually use, but I need to let go of many more objects. My childhood was so abusive, with two narcissistic parents, that I was too frightened to have children myself. I was terrified that somehow I would be cruel to them like my parents were to me. I deeply regret that they stole the opportunity to have children from me, because I loved babies and children when I was a kid myself. The grief of this is extremely deep and hasn’t gone away yet. Narcissists are so emotionally violent. It amazes me that if people are physically violent, they go to jail, but they can do anything they like to you emotionally or psychically. It’s so wrong.

[@tinagribben1165]

I grew up The Scapegoat....as an Unware Adult I always hung on to stuff...especially shity gifts from my "family" I couldnt toss out the only things I have that signified my family.....I also had a growing problem with clothes/shoes/purses!!! Good News...I'm currently 80% done cleaning up my space! I feel like a burden has been lifted My Decor is totally my taste....the family garbage, pictures GONE!!! And My Clothes are manageable!!! For me the key was Getting the Information about Narcissism and finally having My Closure❤ I still have a lot of Heal And I am so Grateful to you Dr Ramani and the other KZbin presenters....I believe you are saving lives! I recently completed CBT and without your education I would not have the understanding I needed to put that Therapy to practice! Bless you❤❤❤

[@joseenoel8093]

My shitty family went put of their way to destroy gifts, momentos and such, really just a tactic to prove how little I meant to them, unnescessary really.... I knew!

[@jennifermoore4246]

I am so glad you have been able to find healing. I believe I grew up with a neglectful narcissist so I've struggled with feeling invisible, not good enough, and a burden, which is painful enough, but I wasn't treated as a scapegoat. I cannot imagine how painful it would be to grow up feeling like you are the problem or the source of all the problems in your family. I wish you freedom from all of that, joy, and the knowledge that you bring joy to the world. Many, many blessings to you on your journey.

[@klee_of_c8082]

Congratulations! That is so inspiring.

[@tinagribben1165]

@@jennifermoore4246 thank you 😘

[@tinagribben1165]

@@joseenoel8093 my family took all my Grandfather's positions when he died. He was an Empath like me and I think to spite me I got Nothing!!! They are VILE DISGUSTING CREATURES!!!

[@bobafetttea]

This makes so much sense…. After two traumatic birth experiences and then being constantly gaslit, criticized, invalidated and straight lied to by several people in my family (including my husband) for years, I started compulsive shopping and hoarding…. I look around my house and get so upset at the way my home is. I’m disgusted at what I’ve done to my once clean house. My children suffer because of my mental health issues, and I am miserable all of the time… I get horrific anxiety when I try to decide what to keep, trash, sell or donate.

[@verabolton]

Hope you're doing all right. Be kind to yourself, you have great values, including honesty ❤

[@freescot8035]

You are not alone. We hear you. Love and best wishes.

[@RightGate3]

Just donate what feels easiest for you to just donate. If some items are left behind then the place will be already clearer and it would be easier for you to find some time to put up a few ads for those one but if they don’t sell after a week or two, donate them too ❤ I did that recently it’s very helpful

[@SamanthaSweetAnne]

Sometimes just have to throw paint on it and throw it away if you don't want others to have it if you had anxiety to donate. The only time I can get rid of some items need to be unable to be cleaned. I'm big on donation but some items I can never donate.

[@patriciagartland6793]

I was never able to stay the night at my ex narcissist's house because it was a hoarding nightmare I cried when I saw it and asked how he could live this way--it's more of a reflection of me and my ability to deny reality. I was with a sick person and for me the question is why didn't I not see that as a flag, a big red one!

[@haniahhaniah905]

Dr, Ramani. I just want to say Thank you. I am able to not go crazy because of your videos and to be strong.❤❤❤

[@joseenoel8093]

Stay strong sugar, way to go!

[@lukebryan_official_fanspage]

Where are you from?

[@justforfun-jp2vc]

I didn’t know this was a thing. My narcissistic dad in his 70’s is a terrible hoarder. I became a severe minimalist with anxiety about attaching to physical objects. 🥺 Thx Dr. R

[@edythesolis311]

Decluttering is my favorite hobby! 🙋🏻‍♀️ And I'm a rescuer, in part because my worst fear in life is having any of the negative qualities I saw in my narcissist/hoarding mom. 🤦🏻‍♀️

[@Alex-dk8dl]

My mother is the narcissistic hoarder. I'm a minimalist. I experience physical attachment and anxiety too. Can absolutely relate.

[@RaptureReadyforJesus-qv2ql]

I am like you in the way about being attached to material items. For me, these items are only meant to make life more comfortable. If everything was lost in a fire, it would not matter to me. It can all be replaced.

[@svilenaspiteri9831]

The same

[@cloudwalker8266]

I had an elderly family member who was a severe hoarder. It was sad because all the relatives used euphemisms to dismiss her behavior, saying things like "she's too old and tired to keep a tidy house. " The place was absolutely filthy, with piles of useless items covering every surface. Not surprisingly, her husband was extremely abusive. If he were to be seen by an informed clinician today, he'd probably get diagnosed with NPD or maybe even antisocial PD. That man was heartless and had no soul, and his wife suffered for over 60 years without remedy. The hoarding seemed to bring her comfort.

[@joseenoel8093]

Maglinant mom who should have been locked up months prior fooled them (cops, relatives, social worker, neighbors, nurses) all with her ultra clean home and it was easy to keep her routine, it eventually became quite unsanitary I hear from public trustee officer, ok by me, not my problem!

[@vickimerritt2832]

yes.

[@Ariadne76-k3d]

Without remedy? How about asking for help, or leaving?

[@sheenacouture7657]

I don’t like when when people can see someone went through trauma and instead of helping they judge them or enable them. When I was depressed after a school situation people would comment on my dishes piled up but no one did the dishes. It made me realize that people aren’t good and they you are only worthy of their friendship if you can give them something instead of needing something

[@bethanybrumbaugh1123]

My wife was a serious hoarder and a narcissist. We often could not have people in our house unless I stayed on top of the mess. My sister is a narcissistic hoarder as well but her house is big so you just can’t tell unless you go looking around and see all the things she has stashed places. She especially hoards food. My mother was a narcissistic animal hoarder. I think maybe it is more linked than professionals have realized.

[@nicoleb8774]

Totally agree! I am married to a narc who wants to hang on to everything. I work tirelessly to organize, reorganize and get rid of stuff behind his back or our house would be a disaster!

[@robynmorris4153]

My sister and i have a life long friend who we now realise is a narcissist (through her interactions with people and behaviours), she is now a 63 year old widow who also has developed into a major hoarder, she has a relatively large house, most of which is now full of so much stuff it is unusable/inaccessible

[@RaptureReadyforJesus-qv2ql]

I have a friend. Huge home. Stuff everywhere. It is so difficult to visit as it overwhelms me. She is the same with animals. I don’t understand because she complains about not having enough money. A garage sale would fix that.

[@Portia620]

We cannot assume that a hoarder is actually a narcissist that’s ridiculous. Remember, sometimes extreme traumas to people that are not narcissistic can occur like the death of a child.🤦‍♀️

[@phalinimcleod8819]

I have a dear friend who is a hoarder. She told me about an experience she had as a young child. Her father, who appears to have NPD, came into her room one fine afternoon when he was in a bad mood, scooped up all her toys with a shovel, dumped them into a big box, taped up the top of the box with packing tape, then wheeled the box out to the trunk of his car and drove it to the dump. She has never forgiven him and he has never apologized.

[@altariel1442]

My mother’s excuse for hoarding was that they had lost everything in a bomb in WW2.

[@poetryjones7946]

My abusive mother would pack up our clothes and toys and give them to Goodwill or just throw our stuff away if we didn’t clean our room to her satisfaction.

[@sophialewis5474]

My mother did this. I felt same as friend.

[@along5925]

This broke my heart. I wouldn't forgive him either.

[@kellydavis6316]

​@@altariel1442but that's legitimate and justified. Both my parents grew up in the depression. They had nothing. So they clinged to every possibly useful thing. It came in handy many times. 70's clothes for school dress up. Costuming for ANYTHING. School project stuff. Wooden Dutch shoes, lol. Moth collection for science. Bonnets, swords, top hats and canes, butter churns, pretty much everything. Probably didn't bother me cause we had tons of space. My mom was a narcissist. And abusive. Out of 5 kids 2 are hoarders. Not trash but of stuff. Yes on decisiveness problems. Zero self esteem. Identity and security issues.

[@MomDroogs]

Wish you would address narcissistic mother’s and Mother’s Day. Incredibly hard day to get through. Every time it rolls around unknowing folks and the whole “ happy Mother’s Day” and “what are you doing for Mother’s Day?” scenario grieves me.

[@oliviagreen7423]

Even just hearing it mentioned constantly (commercials etc) is triggering😖 Hey! Don't forget your mom on mother's day! Like- She did everything for you, and you're a piece of crap if you don't honor her! That's how they make you feel😭

[@Anastasia-wp4yn]

@J Mc I hear you. The weeks leading up to Mother's Day are brutal for me too. I love your idea of celebrating how well we Mothered and raised ourselves so much! I am buying myself flowers this year. Thank you.

[@joseenoel8093]

I just sent a card, it's really for her staff so maglinant mom won't whine everyone else has one but not she.... I won't be calling, my bro will, I tell him to skip the call save the anguish. I make mother's day super easy for my adult children, they don't need more stress or expenses in their lives but Queen Ramani has addressed this in a past video, maybe 52 weeks ago.

[@princessak21]

It’s totally invisible for me I don’t even go see her but the golden children both the boys buy her gifts. My mum has never said happy bday to me, I grew up telling myself I’m gona be the best mother in the world when I have kids and throw parties both Mother’s Day and my birthdays. Hope that day comes around so that I can fully heal x

[@karenburgner217]

She has- look for it- helpful video!

[@honeybme]

My narcissistic husband is an organized hoarder. He thinks this makes him special and superior because his mother is a classic messy hoarder.

[@Vashti0825]

We should develop a chat/blog for spouses of hoarders.

[@JM-ff6gs]

My ex was an organized hoarder. Compulsive shopper, and we had labeled bins and totes, and there was sooooo much stuff. It didn’t look like hoarding, but OMG the amount of random stuff. At one point we had six cases of unused notebooks and binders. Somehow having more and more stuff made them special. So frustrating.

[@nicolebee3273]

Why are you with a narcissist?

[@verabolton]

Did you watch the video?

[@joseenoel8093]

Mine thinks he's very special.... He's kept all his parents' pics, fair enough but we've a small home and tons of home movies, slides, pics of our own, I chucked them, he rescued from the trash, it was a how dare you, my counter, how dare you clutter.... His dad, the original sperm donour to his bud's chick, his half-sis contacted him 5 yrs ago... Out came the pics! He always kept the bills, what a mess, no more, full of hormones!

[@jonellis6235]

A hostile response to Moving or touching anything is what I’ve experienced with my mother. Literally has paths in her house to get around.

[@SandraHof]

Thank you for this video, Dr Ramani. Sadly, my mom was a hoarder. But hers started as a fairly young woman. My whole childhood has memories of her hoarding. I wouldn’t have friends into the house because of it. The few times I did have a friend in the house, I had to explain the situation first. I have memories of bags of our old clothes stacked up in my parents’ bedroom. In the living room, old purses were stuffed in the space under the desk. Stacks of miscellaneous papers on and under a card table and on top of my piano. The garage, our old camper and the back porch became filled with stuff. One time I moved some of the purses stuffed under the desk out to the camper in the back yard. She got mad at me and had me bring them back in and put back under the desk. My parents divorced in 1974 when I was 18 and the last child still at home. I left quite soon after my dad left. She became frightening in her behavior and I didn’t feel safe. But I resumed and maintained a relationship with her until she passed away. In 2003 we allowed a conservator, who had known our family a few decades earlier, to take over mom’s welfare, because Social Services had her taken to the UCLA Psychiatric Hospital, where she stayed for a month. She was finally diagnosed with two or three mental disorders that all made sense to my dad, my brothers and me. She was put in a board and care facility by the conservator. Then the conservator had the task of cleaning out mom’s house. She told me that in all her decades of being a conservator, my mom’s house was the worst she had ever seen for hoarding and filth. It broke my heart. But mom refused any offers of help from my husband and me over the years. I think at that point it was all too overwhelming for her mentally. As the conservator said about my mom "No one deserves to be that depressed" when she saw the inside of mom’s house. For children of hoarders it is difficult as well. For awhile I joined a Facebook group for ones who grew up in the home of a hoarder. It really helped me. It made sense of some things I had not related to being brought up in that kind of home. My mom has been gone for 20 years now. But my heart still hurts at the emotional suffering she endured due to her mental illnesses.😢💔

[@evflyleaf]

My narc mom is a hoarder. I didn’t realize it until I became an adult. I thought it was normal growing up to keep a bunch of random, useless stuff in a garage and closets. What helped me realize it was when my friends or partners would come over and open the door to throw their garbage away (our trash can was in the garage) and stare for a few seconds before throwing their stuff away. I was so embarrassed. My mom would even say, “how could you let them in the garage? I didn’t want them to see all of that mess!” My mom also keeps old clothes from the 70s and 80s that she can’t even wear anymore. She’s kept her wedding dress from both of her failed marriages. I found out about something disturbing at the beginning of this year that she told me she’s “kept” that I don’t even want to repeat. I’m doing whatever I can to stay away from her house. It disturbs me. What’s even crazier is she used to binge watch Hoarders. I couldn’t even watch a few episodes at a time. I always wondered how she could do that. Now I know she was probably only doing it to make herself feel better. When I confronted her about it, she used every saying in the book: “it’s not hoarding - everyone has junk in their garage, look at the neighbors,” “why did you move that? I need that!” etc. I’m so glad I got away and am healthy now.

[@fyrebloom]

My house was a mess when I was in my last relationship. He used to hide things to try and manipulate me into cleaning. When he left, I was much better able to clean and organize the space and while it’s taken 6 months, the house is much more livable. I don’t lose things anymore, and because the home is calm and not full of fighting I have the executive function to handle more. I don’t have hoarding disorder, but I def experienced some of what Dr. Ramani has described as a result of narcissistic abuse.

[@meghnasoni]

Dr Ramani you've brought so much light in the dark lives of the people dealing with narcissistic toxicity. Keep up the good work. Love and light from India🇮🇳

[@ellenfalls1330]

Incredibly valuable segment. I just cleaned up my hoarding situation in October. A good professional disaster cleanup company is key. It is totally worth the cost. I learned many valuable lessons.

[@theeggtimertictic1136]

I hoard because I don't have money and everything is 'valuable' to me.

[@marthajburns]

Years ago, I had a friend who was a textbook hoarder. I'd say she was also a textbook vulnerable narcissist. The crossover was this: when there was a conflict between her stuff and people, she always chose her stuff. She grieved, for years, the loss of a boyfriend who pretty much said it's the stuff or me. She just couldn't believe he'd said that. Yet she chose the stuff.

[@vickimerritt2832]

good choice as he sounds like an ass and showed her zip understanding. Maybe his attuitude is why she hoards? our stuff can represent our lives, somewhat. Many copy cat whiteness everywhere has the same decor of nothingness is telling too. i mean what personality is there when everyone is mimicing everyone else? i have seen many who redecorate excessively to the exclusion of a home you can actually live in, they clean excessively and repaint that all whiteness excessively. very blank and not at all kid friendly, worse you leave these homes wearing all their animal hair. ugh

[@mothersruin9058]

I can relate to this!

[@pjpredhomme7699]

yeah I can totally see that - here is the thing with that - because I can relate - if making the choice between the two - your going to go with the stuff - because you know the person will find something else to leave you for right around the corner. You don't think if - its when and what for - but you know the person is going to leave.

[@fredhubbard7210]

Lots of people are textbook hoarders. When I was a student, textbooks were so expensive. Despite never really using most of them, the financial sacrifice to acquire the textbooks made them very difficult to get rid of. Both my parents held onto their textbooks until they died despite never opening them since university.

[@mikeraskin7319]

I'm a victim of narcissistic abuse and my narcissist is unwilling to clean, ever. I've caught myself not wanting to through things out because the narcissist creates such chaos that I want to hold on to normality as much as possible. But when you combine the narcissist that won't clean and freaks out when something is touched or moved it is a set up for hoarding. My narcissist also uses it for control because she knows that I'm uncomfortable with my guess experiencing a mess. I'm glad that it's a thing worth discussing in this context. Thank you Dr ❤️

[@catgrl76]

My mom is a hoarder and, as you stated, it became more prevalent with age. Several years ago she was in an orthopedic rehab facility and the rest of the family decided to throw A LOT of stuff out. She has always been oppositional and we felt this would be the best way to address it. Probably not in retrospect as she is still angry with us all and obsesses over the most meaningless of items. It has also increased the level of hoarding. I have recently found a way to work with her on letting go of things if I say it is for donation purposes. Even if it will ultimately end up in the garbage, she seems more willing to release the attachment. Thank you for sharing this and shedding more light on the topic. It is real and potentially life threatening.

[@klee_of_c8082]

I so relate. Yes, my Mom will let junk go if she thinks it’s going to someone who needs it. I convinced her to put the broken snowblower out for heavy trash by saying it would be a blessing for the poor garbageman who will fix it and use it. I call this Creative Clutter Removal!

[@Missgevious]

I’ve been in same situation ❤

[@RaptureReadyforJesus-qv2ql]

I was in the hospital having surgery. My daughters came to help and while here, they went through my home and cleaned out everything they did not think was necessary. I really don’t have that much junk, but what junk I had, they tossed. Lol. It was mostly food items they deemed unhealthy. I was somewhat shocked, but I knew I could replace the food, if I wanted. I am not attached to anything I own. I could walk away from it in a second. It is just stuff.

[@dawnrobbins5877]

In some cases, my case, I think hoarding is triggered by bouts of optimism. I'm unable to break away from the narcissist in my life. So I'm waiting for my REAL life to begin, when all of this is behind me. In other words, when I am free from the narcissist I will rebuild my life and home with these things. That's how it feels to me, perhaps I'm fooling myself.

[@user-vn9sh6hv8r]

Ooh, i like this..! How are you going with breaking free and moving on..? I have been stockpiling things for "Future Me" - i'm not in a narcissistic relationship (unless you count with my mother who i thankfully no longer have to see) but i am in a shifting, transitional phase in my life. Sometimes i question whether i will ever get to BE this Future Me, and live that life i envision - that part can be hard when the doubts creep in... but i am holding onto it anyway as i also get rid of the things that were part of my old identity. It's a gradual but steady transition between 'selves', and ways of being. I don't think you're fooling yourself - i think you are *preparing* yourself. Keep going! ✨

[@rkl3692]

I feel you. My hoarding began when I started preparing for my REAL life to begin. Still waiting.

[@theeggtimertictic1136]

Yes there is definitely a hopeful aspect to hoarding along with despair. I'll start crafting when .... I'll do this project and then my life will begin. So true.

[@moonhunter9993]

I think in many cases hoarding is a symptom of unresolved/unprocessed grief. Holding onto stuff is the same as holding onto this toxic relationship or suppressing child Trauma

[@dawnrobbins5877]

@@moonhunter9993 Yes. That's very possible. Thanks!

[@edlamircoelho5402]

My narcissistic parent and also my narcissist grandparent were both hoarders. However this parent used to blame my sister and I for the mess.

[@spacecat6252]

My nieces have a joke about my mom and her progeny, over “who got the 🧬 gene”, which descendent got that hoarding dna. We joke about a situation that destroyed ldreams, hopes, goals and emotional stability one after the other. I honestly don’t know how I made it out alive.

[@aprilharrison5702]

I totally feel this. I was the reason for everything going on in the house including the hoard but I wasn’t allowed to clean because there’s be repercussions! Very painful!!

[@aprilharrison5702]

@@spacecat6252 wow. Your comment completely resonates with me. I am so sorry you had to go through it too. It is genuinely a miracle I made it out alive. I’m glad you were able too, it is the darkest most painful thing I’ve ever had to go through.

[@gardeniagorgeous4232]

Yup my mom would point at my room and say “what about all YOUR junk?!” (I had a small room with a normal amount of things) when our living room, kitchen, hallways and bathrooms were stacked high with useless junk! I used to buy trash bags and secretly throw out trash... Anyway now in my own home I’m constantly monitoring against accumulating too much stuff and being able to healthily part with things I don’t need. Mom is a narcissist and I go no contact/grey rock as needed.

[@siriasouza5264]

I resonate with all of you guys It took me 30 years to realize I was never the lazy, disorganized person she accused me of being. She was and still is! In fact, since childhood, I developed perfectionism due the constant criticism

[@microdosenyc4515]

My mom would go through my garbage, and I would find things I threw out in her space. I will get criticized for the things I threw out. So for a while I start throwing things out. This included my dead sisters clothes. Her clothes stayed on my bedroom floor until the beginning of quarantine, where I had a chance to throw everything out without the scrutiny of my mom. Six years after her death. Separately, when she was away, I decided to do a cleanup of my mom’s living space, and found thousands upon thousands of plastic bags it was disturbing and heartbreaking. She was pissed. I have problems throwing things out, but I’m getting better at it. Thank you Dr. Ramani so much for this channel, you’ve help me put a lot of my life in context.

[@Missgevious]

Omg my mum would also go through my rubbish - even in my outside bin and then criticise me for something I threw out! It’s extremely stressful

[@felishiadarling]

I saw a similar video of having clutter after an abuse from a narcissist. I was married for a long time to a narcissist and didn’t know it. Now that I’m divorced, I can’t seem to organize or unpack. It’s almost two years. I couldn’t figure out what’s wrong with me I can’t seem to do simple tasks that was simple in the past. His video (Danish Bashir) helped me realize my brain is stuck. I’m working thru it, but it’s going to take some time and effort. Understanding what’s wrong really helped. See his video. I related to it in many areas in my life right now. Im going through it today. Your observations are correct. We are affected in the fact of processing simple every day things are overwhelming and confusing.

[@jodycasey4541]

Between 2 & 6% of the population has this disorder? This was my aunt on my mom’s side, And as long as I’ve ever known her although she has passed on now, She was at the extreme level. Now I’m looking at my roots, my family and lineage a whole lot differently. This is so helpful. My goodness, no more judging, no more anger, no more blame, No more putting down, laughing at, no more pointing fingers, no more picking on people. At least that’s the space I’m in now because I am not perfect but I don’t like the pecking order of the family I come from. I’m glad it’s mental health awareness month. This is awesome, thanks!

[@klrestuccio]

I think the percentage is much higher

[@JC-bu6vl]

My Narcissist mother is a hoarder. Instead of throwing things away she does not want she gives them to me and tells me not to throw them away.

[@brandynicjones]

My mother does the exact same thing 🤷🏽‍♀️

[@meemawdragon9964]

Omg 😳 so DID mine, and I greedily took it thinking she was showing me attention by saying she bought ME something (and maybe was going to like me)

[@jflgreen]

Yes! She'd give me stuff and tell me not to put it in my yard sale. Or to keep it forever. Why? I couldn't figure it out. If it meant that much, why give it away? Why try to control it after it's been given? So weird. I of course just get rid of it. I lie because I don't want to deal with it later.

[@aloysiusdevanderabercrombi470]

@@jflgreen She was controlling your space and by extension, you, in your own home. Mine did the same thing.

[@mnop1774]

The ex narc in my life had a hoarding disorder. It was pretty severe. Old expired food, shoes, clothes, electronics, light bulbs, I could go on. I've never seen anything like it.

[@yesenialovette8349]

How did you cope? Did it cause arguments?

[@ewagrabowska000]

Dr Ramani , you are on the top of my bucket list of people i'd be honored to have a passing 1 minute conversation once in my lifetime. The combination of your expertise and compassion is a game changer. You are one of the very few reasons I'm still on yt

[@joywebster2678]

The narc holds on to all his collections and junk, but he wants me to throw everything I own away. No negotiation on a middle ground. He has his clothes from 40 yrs ago in a closet but I'm not permitted to hang current clothing I wear. Bizarre.

[@alisondunning7116]

Yes I experienced similar as a child. My N father had a tendency to hoard, but he blamed me for the mess and would give my few things away in his misguided attempts to keep things tidy.

[@craftyhobbit7623]

@Gemma Dann My partner's mother had this attitude. Before she retired, she was an antique dealer and collected lots of blue and white pottery, furniture, ornaments and other things. She thought that it was worth a lot of money but the majority of it was really just junk. Even when you do come around to selling it, it's only worth what people are willing to pay for it and to be of value, antique items have to made of good quality materials, and be expensive at the time of purchase so it's rare that anything outside of a country estate like Chatsworth House in the UK is really worth anything. Being old is not enough for value. She even made other people think that they had spent loads of money on expensive art prints when they were really just pictures cut out of calendars (she put them in expensive frames to hide what they were.) She made her husband keep sweet jar labels from the company he worked for and kept hold of Laura Ashley catalogues from many years previously. Gave me an aversion to all that kind of thing.

[@Matthew-cz3gk]

You are not wrestling your husband, you are wrestling evil. God bless you.

[@Tarayamai]

Congratulations on your video with vogue!! So proud of you 🥺

[@sugarfree1894]

Narcissistic PD is about control. So is hoarding.

[@annae9013]

Facts! Which is funny because it presents like a lack of control.

[@sarahspencer1010]

Hoarding disorder is about attachment and decision-making issues.

[@entelexia3]

Spot on!

[@devidaughter7782]

The ways that I would take (over) responsibility for cleaning his home (on the presumption that he couldn't do it for himself), while neglecting the care of my own, mirrored the ways I was also trying to 'fix' the emotional wounds he neglected to take care of himself. Its like he had abandoned himself emotionally, and then I abandoned myself to try to 'help' him by taking his load on myself, causing my own needs to go unmet! The physical stuff was just a metaphor for the unprocessed emotional stuff he failed to take care of, and my pattern to over-focus on his 'stuff' and under-focus on my own, was the pattern that led to the eventual collapse of our relationship.

[@eddierayvanlynch6133]

I think letting an untenable relationship collapse is an important step for boundaries and self-care. I know I wasted sooo much effort propping up emptiness. We aren't defined by other's lousy decisions, and it's tough enough being responsible for ourselves.

[@JennySieck]

Yep. I could have written that. Thank God you are free of that.

[@tuffguydoe7937]

I'm just realizing that with my mother. She's is selective in what she cleans and wants me to clean everything else. I repaired her vacuum, she's on her own now. Thanks for mentioning my own needs.

[@RaptureReadyforJesus-qv2ql]

I have a friend that wants everyone to help her clean up, but she is not willing to pay. I am one that has never volunteered.

[@MellyMae44]

My narcissistic husband is a horrible hoarder. He used to be a compulsive shopper too, but a job loss at one point meant he couldn't spend money like he used to, so then he started garbage picking more, or buying crap at rummage sales that he has no use/need for (used VCR, even though we already have several VCRs, none of which we still use: "But it's only $1!"). When we moved from one house to another, he literally brought GARBAGE with, refusing to even throw out ads from old newspapers from 10+ years earlier that he'd accumulated in old shoe boxes. I could go on and on. I have to literally pack up garbage and throw it away in trashcans at gas stations or car washes, because he will remove garbage from our cans and try to save it. Bottom line? It's all about control, and trying to fill that "lack of" whatever that they chronically feel, that can't ever be filled. They are exhausting people, and they drain everyone around them.

[@annief2239]

In not sure you watched the video, or maybe you are presenting an alternative thesis

[@cruisemissle87]

It also shows a lack of empathy towards the other members of the household, when all spaces are unusable and claimed by their possesions, and others are continously attacked and blamed for (re-)moving things, or if they dare to speak up and hold a narcissistic hoarder / compulsive shopper to account. And the infamous PROJECTION! Of course it was only the few things that I had brought into the household that were considered an issue and waste of space. It's possesive and selfish through and through. Like plain narcissists, hoarders may come form a place of trauma, emotional overwhelm and insecurity, but what about those who are affected and alienated by it?

[@georgejfunderburk7645]

It seems to me, the actions you describe indicate he is the victim of narcissism, every man needs something he can call his own. When the people he loves have denied it he must resort to this behavior (did you listen to entire video & try to understand?). Maybe you, maybe a previous relationship or parents, if you are helping him he can slowly grow out of it, otherwise it's most likely you are the cause.

[@rnopes21]

@georgejfunderburk7645 no. His behavior is his decision and therefore his fault. The reason he does it does not absolve the fact that he made a choice to give into this compulsion and not take account of his behavior.

[@georgejfunderburk7645]

@@rnopes21 It's glaringly obvious he needs to makes serious changes, my primary point is he is not the only one here with a share in the blame. Takes two to tango, or blunder.

[@RafaellaG.]

I used to be a hoarder and I had extreme OCD... I used to keep all the things I like but don't really need and fill the whole house with them... I even bought kids toys to connect with my inner child, even though I'm an adult! I kept plastic bottles that filled half the living room for recycle for more than 1,5 year inside the house... Tried to fill that hole/void by buying everything that strikes me fancy even though I didn't use them as much... I really feel for all the hoarders out there and hope they seek the help they need and live in a clean, organized, healthy environment from now on! I did it and you can do it too!!!

[@beautybrainsandbusiness]

Congratulations. How did you do it?

[@anneelbet6881]

You are so right about linking loss, abuse, OCD, starting collections to compensate due to terrible traumas ! Hoarding can stop or reverse when anxiety evaporates and good times come - which is a grace from God! Due to feelings of rejections, I kept all the letters from both divorced narcissistic parents as a proof of their eternal affection for me but in fact signs of anxiety and boredom & guilt from their part. All bags and boxes because of traumatic house eviction - nothing left with nowhere to go to; things that could be used in case of wars, etc. Getting rid of the traumas takes a very long time (i.e. a whole lifespanin fact).

[@mindinmybiscuits]

The narcissist saw how decluttering made me happy and relaxed, and couldn’t have any of that going on. More and more clutter and trash piled on that I wasn’t allowed to take care of until I was isolated, unable to have anyone visit.

[@RaptureReadyforJesus-qv2ql]

I have a friend who is a horder and it is difficult to visit her.

[@thankyoujesus2836]

Why don’t they like for us to relax???? It’s like they have a sense for it, oh no she’s calm let’s make her upset

[@sarahhale-pearson533]

Yes! My family are drowning in my husband’s hoard of garbage and ‘keepsakes’… I’m now ashamed of anyone ever coming to our home, as are our kids. It’s a visual illustration of his utter psychological dysfunction.

[@yourbodyandu]

​@@thankyoujesus2836I've wondered the same thing.

[@beeARTcanada]

Control@@thankyoujesus2836

[@cocogomez2278]

I'm a beginning hoarder or it goes to OCD. It overlaps with me being on the spectrum. I am in an emotional loop and it is overwhelming. I am a victim of narcissistic abuse. It feels like from trauma and multiple loss my goal is to take a haul to the goodwill today..

[@kc3810]

It feels good getting rid of stuff that just bogs you down. I have a narcissist husband who I would love to abandon. Meantime I'm getting rid of my stuff. He doesn't notice that no one would guess anyone lives in the house but him. I'm just one of his things. Maybe I'll send myself to the thrift shop :D just kidding. Good luck to you.

[@cocogomez2278]

@@kc3810 thank for the encouragement and best wishes to you

[@vickimerritt2832]

@@kc3810 is he helping you? sabotouging you?

[@kc3810]

@@vickimerritt2832 good question. Seems like he likes his independence and I'm learning he may not mind me packing up discreetly and leaving. As always, he disapproves of seeing my presence in the house, even after two kids and 22 years. I think he is not hindering or helping, he's just prolonging the situation like purgatory, it's up to me to make a move. Thanks. Good question.

[@Missgevious]

My close friend has ASD and OCD and his mum is a militant organised hyper doer type narcissist. I lived with them for a year so I observed how most likely developed his traits. It’s very sad. But my mum is also narcissist but different type - self indulgent and a hoarder. It’s good you can identify this in yourself as that’s half the battle. I reckon you’ll have a very good chance of fast healing given how you’re talking

[@ariannag2013]

when I broke up with my narcissistic ex (because he left me no choice) he refused to give me my things back… I never got them back and eventually I just told him to keep them or throw them away i didn’t care. Indifference is the way to go with narcissists it really eats them up inside.

[@RaptureReadyforJesus-qv2ql]

Yes!!!! I used to say “I don’t care” to the narc. It infuriates them.

[@dawn-from-the-lab]

This is my life! I didn’t realize I married a hoarder until it was too late. Most people I know have a storage room that’s a mess and that’s all he had when we got together, but 16 years later, his stuff has taken over the entire whole house and he won’t throw anything away or go through anything. He blames our twins and I for the mess, but he creates as much or more mess and clutter than they do. The girls and I have ADHD and they tend to get distracted and drop stuff and go. So they are messes, but I can’t walk in the 2nd biggest room of the house, I can barely walk around our bedroom, and I almost die anytime I step into the garage and storage shed because of him. I have cleaned all of these areas spotless on numerous occasions and he has destroyed them within days of my work. I’ve given up. He’s defeated me. I’ll spend 24 hours in a weekend cleaning and he undoes it almost instantly. It’s heartbreaking.

[@ArtLoverScotland]

I have very much the same and no children thankfully. I am leaving him as he is also a narcissist, he has OCD he is a shopping addict to which adds to the already filled house pay ALL the bills for, I am paying out everything to warehouse his problems.

[@marilynbartlett1850]

I thought my brilliant and somewhat eccentric husband would change when he had his own house he was paying a mortgage on (the tiny rental house he had when we were dating was practically filled to the brim and I had never encountered a hoarder before). What a fool I was! I can't decide if he's the narcissist or if he grew up with one (his dad?) but he definitely has a need to fill up and thus control all possible space. He took early retirement from his company and is now having to go through everything and move it across three states, and it's been painful, expensive and time-consuming; we've already filled three large storage buildings and may have to get another one before all is said and done. To some degree this is helping as he is having to handle all of the packing and moving by himself while I continue working, but he's still not getting rid of much. You know the drill - 20 years' worth of several magazine subscriptions; boxes of parts and dead electronics he will never use, boxes full of jars, bags full of aluminum cans he's going to melt down into ingots someday, etc. I love him and I want to accommodate his hobbies but I could just scream sometimes. This whole thing has isolated me (I can't stand having anyone over because of the mess and stopped entertaining long ago) and it has nearly broken our marriage. I've heard all the excuses: he got it for free, if we don't use it someone else will, you never know when it might come in handy, I might never be able to buy this again, etc. I have just given up at this point. I figure I'll probably be the one to go first and I am betting that within six months he'll have every inch of the house stacked to the ceiling with boxes of stuff and the kids will just stop visiting, probably because there won't be anywhere to sit. I guess that's the life he wants.

[@mwebb3014]

@@marilynbartlett1850Start watching The Minimal Mom, Dana K. White (A Slob Comes Clean) and Clutterbug. These three also have a course: Take Your House Back. All three are fabulous. Dana has written three books and all three have podcasts too.

[@ruansaunders2913]

All I saw was the topic and my response was, "Oh my goodness, yes. That is exactly it!"

[@farahjarvis8270]

My mother is a narcissist and a hoarder.i never had made the connection but it meant a childhood of always being expected to tidy and clean the never ending mess. Very interesting connection.

[@theresalacause8493]

WOW! You totally described me. A survivor from narcissistic abuse, however I have started to get rid of stuff after many years of hoarding.

[@odetteloney9088]

Yep, old cars that they have to spend on when they could have bought new, irrational and abusive issues with food and money...not liking anything anyone else buys... competitiveness and endless focus on negativity😭But to those outside...wow they're wonderful! I doubted myself for years due to this type of behaviour. Now in my forties some light is shining in as to why. THANK YOU DR. RAMANI.

[@izawaniek2568]

Narcisists are often hoarders. I have seen it in my life many times. Thank you dr Ramani❤

[@pebblebrookbooks4852]

Some of us raised by hoarders don't even know the mechanics of "getting rid of stuff', let alone how to sell things at any value. We need help with this, or we will succeed only with compulsive minimalism. For years, my solution was, "I just won't have stuff. It's obviously too hard for me to manage". I married a collector. He just wanted to buy me things bc of how I was living. He passed in '09, so now I have all this stuff he bought "for me". My real estate agent is a very patient woman.

[@eddierayvanlynch6133]

"compulsive minimalism" Wow, that's an eye-opener. Thanks for your comment. Stay Strong 💪

[@siyah4436]

My father is a stingy narcissist who hates spending money even though he makes excellent money. He would rather save all his money then spend a penny on his family. This made my mother save everything that comes into the house in case we need it someday. Now our house is filled to the brim and no one is allowed to throw anything away unless they want to be cursed out by my parents for being ungrateful little shits that weren't raised right and should be more thankful for the things our father "provides for us"

[@vickimerritt2832]

i hear that. my kids dad was the same had zero respect for me or his kids things, forced us to live on virtually nothing. so we passed second hand around forever among myself and 4 kids of very seperated ages he refused to put one dime into home repairs ignored things he broke, and then bam was crazy spending to buy us back, then cussed our needs. he put me in debt insisting on me using cc in my name in desperation to provide when we had money not to use credit that he lied about, refused to pay any bills, dumped it all on me and the girls and then did what he wanted with zero responsibility to us,or our home, infantilized us all in reverse then declared himself the victim. then would switch his personality totally within a few days. Funny thing, they worship adore and support him, buy his furniture, treat him like a helpless baby and me who finally got them out of hell by supporting their dreams and health and needs to launch with earning capicity, and out of the war zone he made our lives is still scapegoated and blamed by his judgement proclaimations not their own reality based eye witness to his wrath, lack of predictability, absences etc. it is bizarre.

[@vickimerritt2832]

it is nice you can see it from maturity. just know this is more common than you think and very confusing when you are the kid.

[@oagengmakola9880]

I wish you could talk more about siblings who are narcissists! it is Brutal!

[@melodyharmony8448]

I have a narc brother. He's been abusive to every woman in his life. When one relationship ends he finds another. I grieve for the loss of a brother. It's terrible because family are meant to be the ones you love and trust. When trust is gone what's left is alot of pain.

[@RaptureReadyforJesus-qv2ql]

They are brutal, hateful and judgmental

[@MKEditsxx]

My mom has a major hoarding problem Piles of clothes everywhere... even empty bottles of detergents that need to be in the trash She complains a lot about our house being messy but at the same time gets super angry when we help and tidy things up and organize She also struggles with depression and is on medication and it is emotionally tiring for me and my brother to deal with her meltdowns, anger, no energy to get up and do tasks... I've suggested many time that we go see a specialist that I would accompany her if she wants cz I feel I need some help too but she refuses it everytime I bring it up I want to see her motivated again for life like she used to and see her in a happy mood and do things she is passionate about like baking for example If anyone has any similar experience or has any advice for me I would much appreciate it 🙏🏻

[@Mel.H_]

I still second guess myself constantly. I have to work at it every day telling myself "I've made this decision and I'm sticking with it " over and over again. It's so exhausting 😔

[@sandyg3772]

My mom was always throwing away my stuff. She gave all my books to my newborn cousin because I "had already read them". I was in kindergarten! Dr. Seuss lives on throughout childhood. They are not one-and-done books. She threw away my favorite toys, too. Now, she's getting rid of all of my dad's stuff (he has Alzheimer's). Everything that connects him to a memory is being thrown out. Her excuse? "He doesn't use it anymore." I know for myself, I have an emotional attachment to items that were given to me by others. When I see the item, I remember the person and the good times we spent together. I got rid of everything that reminds me of my ex (except my sons, of course). When we moved to our last house together, my (now) ex put my box of memories (awards, diplomas, journals, etc.), everything from my "past" life, in the shed with the broken roof. However, his training manuals from his work 3 jobs prior to that, were kept in boxes in the corner of the bedroom. He had a storage tub full of decades-old magazines that we moved around the country with us (9 moves). He wouldn't ever let me recycle them. (That was the FIRST thing I got rid of when he moved out.) And yet, he insisted that I needed to get rid of the first phone I bought, even though it still worked perfectly, and was not dependent on the electricity to work. Yeah, narcissists have NO PROBLEM throwing away other people's stuff. In fact, they can't stand for those items to be around. They are reminded that you had a life prior to them showing up and destroying it.

[@klee_of_c8082]

This is so dead-on. Narc parent got rid of my favorite toys when I was still a kid. Narc exes “accidentally broke” my treasured keepsakes. Good Lord, it’s so GREAT to discover we weren’t the crazy ones! Bet you felt AWESOME ditching those magazines!

[@jeanalice4732]

So true.

[@sandyg3772]

@@klee_of_c8082 yes I did! I cherished every moment as I tossed each armful into the recycling bin and rolled it to the curb.

[@user-vn9sh6hv8r]

Same. It's disrespectful and destabilising. It's an absolute disregard of your boundaries, of your interests and of your individual identity as an entity separate to them. It strips you of your ability to have control, care, or autonomy over your own physical existence - your space, your things, your sentiments even. It's like constantly having the rug pulled out from under you just when you feel settled. They are so miserable that they really can't handle it when others feel good, about anything..! It's sad, but at the same time, you learn not to feel sad for them as that's a vulnerability they will exploit to get at you. Your compassion and empathy is just an achilles heel to them... It's interesting to hear others talk about this - as a child you feel so alone in dealing with these things that it doesn't even occur to you that it might be happening to others as well. As an adult i've been decluttering a lot these past few years (physically and emotionally) - and the first things to go are the things that my mother has given to me - mostly crap that she didn't want and i didn't know how to refuse without setting her off... Pretty much symbolic of her parenting, dumping all her shit on me - and usually after baiting me with the promise of a nice thing then saying, "Oh actually no, you can have this (broken, cheap, useless) one instead..." Be gone, crap that i never wanted and was never mine to begin with!!

[@rivkaruthgolan]

I know someone who hoarded because she thought that she was often passed over, she grabbed onto anything she could. Later, during narcissistic abuse, she was deprived of what she needed by the narc who was in control of money.

[@makaylahollywood3677]

I was mentally hoarding people who don't fit in my space. I was hanging on to people who didn't respect me..accepting crap- Now, I am keeping a tidy mental cabinet;-)

[@bobanname2045]

Love this:). Can relate.

[@tuffguydoe7937]

Same here, I'm cleaning my closet of toxic people and it feels good doing it.

[@jaycolgan6213]

My father in law was both narcissistic and had a hoarding and compulsive shopping problem. It made it so difficult to help him. Despite our best efforts, my husband and I only made meaningful progress on the house after he passed. We tried to help him as his health failed but he drove us away with his denial and entitlement and dangerous living conditions. In the end, he died alone after living by himself in filth and squalor for months even though he had the means and support to do otherwise.

[@TC-gx3qn]

I have experienced a hoarder narcissist trying to stop me from throwing away MY OWN STUFF and always over my shoulder asking me why I am throwing something away. They are truly sick people.

[@verabolton]

Narcissistic people are not hoarders. Their victims are. Listen the video again.

[@TC-gx3qn]

@@verabolton This narcissist is, hence my comment. Nowhere in the video did it imply that it is impossible for a narcissist to be a hoarder.

[@carmell51]

This is my husband 44 years. It gets worse. If I try to throw anything away, he tries to hide it and salvage it. I was raising the house where everything had its place and everything was put back in. It needed and clean. But it was not OCD we had a lot of fun and we can get things out and do our projects in the garden , do art projects, we had animals, but everything was clean. Now I’m married to a hoarder. It’s horrible. I did not know this until we have been married over 25 years. he had most of it in the garage. After I became ill with something he took over.😢😢😢😢 it wasn’t for my relationship with Jesus Christ. I don’t know what I would do. Even my grandchildren will not come to the house.

[@babybear19791]

Sometimes narcissistic people do hoard. Mine loves flea markets and then it's my fault she bought a bunch of junk with no room for it. Mine also can't get a front door for her mobile home. She claims she can't find one, but she found thousands of dollars worth of cows for 2 years, 10 and a half months, but she's needed a front door for 8 years. Plumbing for even longer. Her car is always overloaded with her crap, but she orders me to clean it like I made the mess. I assure you that some narcissists hoard. I have a few minor things, but I live in a camper. The walls are Swiss cheese, but my financially abusive narcissists doesn't even worry about that either.

[@TC-gx3qn]

@@carmell51 I'm so sorry. I will pray for your situation. 🙏🏽💕 I know that must be so hard. I wish there was someone that could stand up to him for you. 😔

[@vincec.202]

I've lived with it my entire life. My Mother. It was so bad in my childhood that with the black trash bags full of everything from clothes to(you nailed it again) OLD BILLS being stacked everywhere that my siblings and I could never have friends over to our house. These days, her basement has clothes and toys and old tools, and just JUNK going back to the early 1980's. Her bedroom has a love seat with new clothing with the tags on it stacked to the ceiling. Her sister is her biggest enabler, taking her to yard sales up to 4 days a week. My father, who passed away a couple years ago, also had Obsessive Compulsive Disorder to the point the plastic covers on new electronics would never be removed, he kept a copy of every sales contract and tax bill in boxes in his room going back over 25 years. Even his landline phone was wrapped in saran wrap. As an adult, I've had to catch myself and make sure junk is disposed of and valuable items are kept because of similar traits in the person that is the reason I subscribe to your channel. This is different though. Her...not sure what to call it...problem I guess, because it is one, is that everything is in disarray and never in the same place and nice, expensive clothing, jewelry, "girl stuff" like all the lotions and soaps and hair irons are all just left in bags and jumbled in with thrift store junk. Lately, as I am trying to recover from this abuse, I notice within myself that something has changed where I have NO DESIRE to give any gifts that a neurotypical would recognize as something that should be taken care of. Her 16 year old daughter and 13 year old son are also this way, but on a level where it's A SPORT. I can't even begin to tell you how many Saturday mornings I've woke up to a whole box of cereal ground into my living room carpet or gone to vacuum out my new car and found food and snacks just shoved into the back seats or in cup holders. It's like the disrespectful, unappreciated behavior is a way of gaining negative attention. Their mother, I believe, has borderline personality disorder with narcissistic traits. The daughter is a literal SOUP of cluster B behaviors and narcissism is a REALLY STRONG ONE, and the son...bless his heart...is the poster child for ADHD. He has very little of the cold, cruel, manipulative traits his sister, mother, and now deceased Grandmother have or had. The Grandmother was the QUEEN of grandiose narcissists, and literally had her entire very large family at her feet scampering in attempts to please her. The way they perceived this at family gatherings as NORMAL created anxiety within me having to attend these gatherings like I couldn't describe. I've always thought of myself as an easy person to get along with, I'll help anyone with anything when asked because it's just how I was raised, and yet still it is apparent that after 6 years of this, I will NEVER earn the favor of her family. Besides her, the son is the only one I can bond with on ANY level. The daughter is interested in cooking, and I'm a certified chef, so I've been able to bond with her on that in the last 3 years. The negative behaviors in this dynamic though are something I'm becoming exhausted addressing ON MY OWN. I think I'm finally at the point in my therapy now where the boundaries on this behavior will either have to be set and enforced by BOTH her and I in the future or the end of the relationship will be a certain result.

[@GroovDiva]

I'm so sorry... I was getting into this so deeply, even re- reading several times to figure out thst you proceed to discuss an apparent Sig Other, where the transition from discussing your mother is nearly impossible to detect, and I just can't get past the use of the word "literal" to refer to a person being likened to soup. That's not what that word means, and we as a culture have come to normalize making it interchangeable with other words that describe "a high extent." I don't mean to invalidate your concerns or struggles; just had a moment of anxiety there.

[@kimberlyeyler1031]

I have clinical depression, anxiety and OCD plus I have a problem with hoarding stuff, I try to use junky shoes until they get so nasty yet I have multiple 200 dollar shoes. I do not understand why?? My husband who I cannot stand of thirty years not only abused me in every way possible for years but he is narcissistic too!!! I want to leave but I’m traumatized and have little cash to leave. My life is tough. Thank you for your video. These certainly give me answers and wise things to ponder!!!❤

[@ArcticFirepixy]

This has been on my mind so much! I don't understand why my mom hording so much things

[@nancyfleming8038]

Yes! This describes my X in all points! He had his first HS car (in our garage). A desk from grade school, his dads desk, a toolbox from his grandfather that he never went into. The decision making thing is SO true. It took him 3 years to decide what car to buy (all the while driving a relic truck). He bought more filing cabinets because he was afraid to throw away papers. He filled up our basement and I couldn’t walk thru it. I blew my top once after walking thru it but he would not clean up. He bought 5 shelving units that sat there for 10 years before he put them together. I’m so glad he is an X.

[@ClaLu]

I love love LOVE that she uses nornal lighting and beautiful normal face/skin in her videos ❤ it really gaslights me to watch mental health videos with faces with vogue lighting and makeup, i know i know everybody is free to do whatever to their faces, but my autistic brain gets stressed by it 😊 so thank you very very much for these details Dr. Ramani #Empathy

[@dualdragoncomics1611]

You found me I’m crying because I feel validated. I’m 27 I didn’t lose a close family member it was the abuse and control that caused my hoarding.

[@famousstar796]

There definitely needs to be a full research team on narcissistic disorder and the MANY other disorders that go along with this problem. My narc's are both hoarders and have been their whole life as far as I can tell.

[@theeggtimertictic1136]

Is narcissism a mental illness? If so why would you call them 'narcs' ... would you call them 'depressos' if they suffered from depression?

[@newworldastrology1102]

Fantastic connection, dealing with this in a shared space currently. Thanks for shining light on this with such perceptiveness. 🌹

[@lcamp626]

My mother who always said one day you can decorate your home the way you like, decided while I was in the hospital for over a month. She threw away my artwork and art supplies as well as my style furniture and replaced it with items she liked. Everything I owned was put into totes in the garage and unmarked. When I opened a box I found paint all over clothes I wear and paint in my camera. Since then, she daily says I need to go through those totes. I worked so hard to get those items and my home. Only to have someone who I thought loved me to ruin it.

[@ninii394]

She lives in your home????

[@julieholdcroftbetty8520]

I bought loads of wool, fabric, baking equipment and I eventually realised that I was surrounding myself with them to protect me. I was losing me in the relationship. These were representative of things that I loved to do.

[@stephanie3848]

I think depression causes hoarding too

[@cht2162]

My spouse, age 80 = Hoarding disorder + AntiSocial PD + NPD + OCD. What a life

[@jangunderson5299]

You just opened up my eyes to why I have such a hard time letting go of stuff and why I buy multiples of things and hide them. When I was young (and even now that my mother is 86) she would see things in my home, say that it would look better in her home, and help herself to that item. I am much better at telling her "no" but sometimes it isn't worth the fight. I also grew up with a flying monkey sister who would tell mom and dad that I stole things from her. I could show receipts to them, but mom would always support her accusation, and dad would do anything to prevent a fight and then he would hustle me out of the situation. Usually both mom and dad would end up paying my sister for whatever I "stole." My mom still tells me that things I have in my home should be sent to my sister because she has a "nicer" home than mine.

[@bellaluce7088]

@Jan Gunderson I won't write the swear words that popped in my head on reading the last line of your comment, but ALL you described is next-level awful. I'm sorry you're still dealing with such ugly, casual, cruelty. No one deserves that. Hugs to you. ❤

[@jangunderson5299]

@@bellaluce7088 Thank you!

[@bellaluce7088]

@@jangunderson5299 😘❤🏡😍

[@RaptureReadyforJesus-qv2ql]

I am so sorry! How are you doing now?

[@happyfreeky]

Dr. Romani, I can confirm that I've witnessed your premise about narcissistic abuse triggering hoarding in two generations of the same family

[@Tahtanista]

My ex hoarded video games. I am not against video games and have enjoyed them myself, but he had 16+ entire cabinets full of them. He kept excellent care of them, but spent most of his time buying more instead of playing the ones he had. The kitchen counter was always covered with new arrivals and he'd thoroughly clean each one. He was considering getting a storage unit for them. Heaven forbid I touch them. I once rearranged some so I could prepare food on the counter, and slightly dented a box. I had to buy him a new one of that game. I started to realize that he was trying to fill a void inside by buying more games. Dr. Ramani makes perfect sense. It also explains why I resumed collecting G1 My Little Ponies from my childhood, while I was with him, trying to fill a void of my own, but I only filled one cabinet, and now that I have left him, my desire to collect more has stopped, too. But I bet he's buying more games than ever. Heck, now he can fill up my old room with them, too.

[@RoninCat991]

It's my 24th birthday today and I am going through a LOT with being adopted and also having abusive adopted parents. So you can imagine how much I hate mothers day xD Your videos always help me get through a tough time! Thank you

[@joseenoel8093]

Hang in there hon, we love you!

[@redsquirrel1086]

Happy Birthday Sydney. I was adopted too and my adoptive father was a narcissist. Bad luck eh? Stay strong my friend. You will be OK.

[@yellowtheresunshine]

I was adopted and the "mother" is an overt narcissist. Nothing but abuse.

[@zumbanatalieb]

Another adoptee with narcissistic parents here ✋🏽

[@Picca65]

♥️ happy birthday ♥️

[@Kitty-ov7ds]

My sister and I shared a room while growing up. By the time she was in Kindergarten, the way she cleaned her side of the room was to shove everything under her bed. By fourth grade, we had higher beds and her cleaning methods hadn’t changed. By high school, she moved into another bedroom, vacated by a sibling who had graduated high school, and filled the room with all of her belongings covering the floor and covering the windows. She’s now age 56, still living with our 90-year-old parents (NPD mom) despite their having sold the original house and moving. She moved all her belongings to the next house. Her mother-in-law apartment there is piled to the ceiling, the floor can’t be seen, and it smells of dirty clothes and rotten to-go food containers. She started renting her first storage unit by age 30, rented a second by the time she was 40 and has filled the basement beneath her apartment. She asked me to help her sort through her mail several years ago and then I learned that she can’t prioritize a bill to pay from junk mail fliers and newspaper circulars...to her, they all have equal importance. Her storage units are stuffed floor to ceiling with 30-gallon garbage bags of mail, toys from her childhood, all the clothes she’s owned since seventh grade,, etc. She won’t get rid of them until she’s had a chance to go through them. She has refused to give away clothes because she can’t find someone who would appreciate them as much as she does. She often picks up furniture put at the curb so it will have a home. It’s as if the things she collects are living creatures that she takes care of. Did I mention the six cats living in the basement? Also have a brother with the hoarding tendency, another brother with severe OCD, and three NPD sibs. It’s been an interesting life!!!

[@godswillm575]

So sorry to see what you all have been through. It seems you are little bit more detached or healed. I hope they can look at you as inspiration and heal too.

[@oliviavaldez6574]

Why didn't you help??

[@godswillm575]

@@oliviavaldez6574 Now that's what I need to learn. That's hardcore D-I-R-E-C-T. 🙂 A skill that I lack severely.

[@JaneDoe-ng3zm]

@@oliviavaldez6574 these people need professional help

[@anavigil7603]

That the mail has equal importance helps me understand some loved ones that have hoarding tendencies. I notice that one can panic if an item is not viewable - in a drawer or closet. It's as if the item literally disappeared to them. It's mind boggling to me, but not to someone who can relate. I can understand caring for a loved one, but needing to live away from the clutter. It really effects the health of relationships.

[@laurenstanderfer7214]

My narcissistic MIL was “helping” my husband move things to a donation center so we could move while I was at a bachelorette party. I had a LOT of boxes to donate. She said she donated it but we found all the boxes in her house 😳 she couldn’t even get rid of MY stuff that she has no emotional attachment to.

[@klee_of_c8082]

Wow! Poor woman. I find hoarders & hoarding so sad somehow.

[@margareth1504]

Lauren, while Im capable of taking my own charity boxes to charity, my partner involved me in supporting his mothers love of handling charity items, so I agreed he could take the boxes I periodically had to donate, to her to donate. I was glad to get rid of those things. His mother died, then his father died, and after everything was done, I agreed his parents things could be at our house till he did what he wanted with them. That was a mistake on my part to agree to that. I didnt want the excess mess, but thought he might need to deal with the stuff. When their possessions turned up I saw that many items were things I had owned and put in boxes for charity it turned up there was so much stuff ade it a thing that his mother was keen to

[@margareth1504]

Just hit the wrong button by mistake. Sorry comment prior wasnt finished properly . Meant to say we ended up with much of the stuff i had thrown out years earlier. His mother kept the things id sent to charity, then i got it all back again after she died. Then I had to send it off a second time to charity.

[@sm_au]

Lauren, my mother did this. Used to say she’d take my op shop donation stuff to her favourite op shop donation centre. Then years later (a decade later) I found out she’d hoarded all my stuff that was supposed to go to the op shop. I had no idea. I couldn’t get into her house because of all her junk, had no idea she’d stashed it all in her back room. Only found out a couple of weeks ago when I was trying to help pack her up to move. I quit trying to help her, it was overwhelming and she was so nasty about everything.

[@mestillme3026]

My mom is a vulnerable narcissist and a hoarder. She uses the hoarding as a sort of self-sabotage,, for sure. But she also uses it as a way to hurt and control those around her. It's a great way to cause chaos and hurt to any people that live with you while having complete plausible deniability. Vulnerable narcissists hate to be hated. So when they hurt people they need an iron strength alibi in which to gaslight. Can't be reasonably hated if there is no reasonable reason to hate you.

[@rnopes21]

Holy cow! Your words ring so true.

[@rottiemom1891]

You confirmed my suspicion. I think I'm in the begining stage of hoarding. I turned 67 a couple of days ago. My husband was narcissistic, he passed away, got into a relationship with a full blown narcissistic man, he to passed away. Also people stole things from me that I thought were my friend. My husband would throw or try to throw things of mine away as these things were from my childhood. It's hard to toss things away because they are sentimental, or, may have a use for them in the future, I may fit back into those one day. I've got to get a dumpster.! Lol Thank you, Dr. Ramani

[@shanematters5374]

Looking into my mother's hoarding is what lead me to learn about all the types of narcissism.

[@bethcochran1104]

Same

[@aloysiusdevanderabercrombi470]

Me too

[@paulalane8638]

I grew up with an alcoholic mother who was a hoarder. She was very verbally and emotionally abusive. Unfortunately, in the 60s and 70s the tern Narcissist was almost nonexistent. I'm now 67, she has been gone over 20 years and I am constantly monitoring clutter!

[@JaneDoe-ij4ls]

Good morning Dr Ramini🌹! Thank you for all your helpful and fascinating information!

[@erikadavis6213]

I've commented before and I've watched SOOO many of your videos but this hits the nail on the head with an issue I'm having. In my narc relationship my family quit talking to me, my son can no longer live with me, I've lost so many physical possessions because my narc refused to go get them when we were losing our house(at the time). It's just scary how well you know and understand people. Dr. Ramani just thank you for being you!!!

[@l.baughman1445]

I know this is a couple years old, but it's holding up. Been there, done that. The cumulative impact of multiple traumas, losses, thefts, damage, attacks, etc. Sometimes the letting go of things isn't actually the problem, and many decisions still get made to let go of things to charity, trash, etc. -- but decisions to organize, put things away, cluttered thoughts/cluttered mind, shopping compulsion overtaking available small spaces, health issues, etc. leads to also being overrun. But you hit the nail on the head. Even your speculation, I believe, makes a perfectly valid anecdotal starting point for research. You be one smart, thoughtful, Lady. Thank you for being you.