Naval Ravikant and Nick Kokonas - The Tim Ferriss Show

This episode is a two-for-one, and that’s because the podcast recently hit its 10-year anniversary and passed one billion downloads. To celebrate, I’ve curated some of the best of the best-some of my favorites-from more than 700 episodes over the last decade. I could not be more excited. The episode features segments from episode No. 97 “Naval Ravikant - The Person I Call Most for Startup Advice” and episode No. 341 “Nick Kokonas - How to Apply World-Class Creativity to Business, Art, and Life.”
Sponsors:
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Links to everything discussed:
tim.blog/2024/05/16/naval-rav...
Timestamps:
[00:00] Start
[04:50] Notes about this supercombo format.
[06:09] Enter Naval Ravikant.
[06:21] On uncompromising honesty.
[08:21] What Naval looks for when deciding to invest in a founder.
[11:19] Recommended reading from outside the startup world.
[18:54] Who Naval considers successful.
[21:18] Cultivating non-judgmental awareness.
[26:24] How to replace bad habits with good habits.
[29:47] Naval's advice for his younger self.
[32:17] Naval's billboard.
[36:02] Enter Nick Kokonas.
[36:21] Is pressure Nick's default setting, or are perceived risks an illusion?
[37:11] How do behavioral economics and Richard Thaler influence Nick's approach?
[41:54] Nick's transition from philosophy to finance; was philosophy an asset?
[42:59] Why Nick's professor gave him shorter assignments than classmates.
[45:13] Nick's introduction to trading; dumbing down academics for clerk job.
[46:58] Why philosophy majors often become traders.
[47:35] Why Nick is glad he didn't pursue an MBA in 1992.
[48:57] Why Nick thinks his professor singled him out from his peers.
[53:08] Recommended books for aspiring entrepreneurs without philosophy background.
[57:47] Did being a Merc clerk meet Nick's expectations?
[1:00:18] How Nick followed his father's entrepreneurial model in trading.
[1:04:54] Why Nick left his mentor after a year to start his own company.
[1:05:57] How Nick and employees trained to quicken mental agility for trading.
[1:08:33] The moment Nick realized he could thrive in trading.
[1:09:18] Recommended resources for becoming a better investor.
[1:11:38] Nick seeks out "high, small hoops" for investment risks.
[1:14:16] Do businesses fail due to difficult model or lack of due diligence?
[1:17:11] When and why Nick decided to enter the restaurant business.
[1:18:42] The dinner leading to Nick and Grant Achatz's partnership.
[1:28:08] Why Nick chose to open a restaurant out of many risky options.
[1:30:49] How Nick spots talent early that others notice late.
[1:34:23] Questioning restaurant conventions like candles and white tablecloths.
[1:37:25] A now-famous chef was Alinea's first customer.
[1:38:19] Nick and Grant wouldn't let designers override their ideas.
[1:39:03] How Nick contributed effectively as a restaurant industry newcomer.
[1:14:35] Why Nick was "horrified" when Alinea won Best Restaurant in 2006.
[1:44:06] Grant's cancer diagnosis; writing a book and revolutionizing reservations.
[1:45:44] Traditional restaurant reservation systems and Nick's improvements.
[1:57:33] Bickering at press dinner; avoiding Next becoming "Disneyland of cuisine."
[2:02:30] Reservation software problems; variable pricing based on day of week.
[2:06:04] The moment Nick realized "This is the best thing I've ever built."
[2:07:57] Why the reservation system's rewards were worth the asymmetric risks.
[2:10:32] Using Marimekko charts to visualize restaurant and sponsorship data.
[2:17:13] The next industry Nick wants to disrupt: truffles.
[2:19:11] Illuminating black boxes.
[2:26:40] Self-selection of job roles; how Nick's hiring process has changed.
[2:32:17] Systems Nick uses to cope with a lot of email.
[2:37:59] Importance of engaging on social media, even if unable to respond to all.
[2:39:51] What "puzzle" filters and mini-hurdles in correspondence accomplish.
[2:40:52] Comparing similarities between the music and publishing industries.
[2:50:11] The agency problem as another black box.
[2:55:14] The Hembergers, The Alinea Project, and the upcoming independent Aviary Book.
[3:01:58] A brief discussion about cocktails.
[3:05:58] Books Nick has gifted most and how he personalizes gifts.
[3:08:26] Nick's billboard.
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[@timferriss]

This episode is brought to you by: Eight Sleep’s Pod 4 Ultra sleeping solution for dynamic cooling and heating: eightsleep.com/tim (save $350 on the Pod 4 Ultra) Momentous high-quality supplements: livemomentous.com/tim (code TIM for 20% off) LinkedIn Jobs recruitment platform with 1B+ users: linkedin.com/tim (post your job for free)

[@sujaydutta8479]

Please do one episode (3hrs) with Naval only without any ophers' interruption. Please do consider Sir please🙏🙏🙏

[@sujaydutta8479]

Why do naval talks inturpted abruptly after 37 mins or something??? Please do upload The Naval talks sepertely without any other interruption. He is far more superior than any so called famous guy in any given day. You know that very well. Please...Please do upload The Naval talks sepertely without any other interruption. Please do reply 🎉

[@Moses_42]

I'm a simple guy. I see a video with Naval, I tune in...

[@paulallen6992]

I wish Naval would do podcasts more often.

[@stacyliddell5038]

He doesn't like repeating himself. So he only goes on when he has new things to say.

[@-whackd]

Then we wouldn't value it as much

[@user-hv7ud5gi8l]

@@-whackd yep

[@spartnchad9912]

He's talking everyday on airchat

[@joeyrivera2423]

I agree

[@DanielThomasArgueta]

Thank you, Tim. I clicked because of Naval but I'm here for everyone. 😎

[@mikeeinstein1]

The podcast starts at 6:19

[@OnekamaProducts]

Naval, my man. Tim, my guy.

[@kunzangdolma2163]

About to listen , I just love Naval, he changed my life for better.

[@Ryan.G.Spalding]

I loves this episode! Nick's first-principles approach to everything is fantastic. Without weird restaurant issues, “Seinfeld” wouldn't have been a show. (Also, “Friends” wouldn't have existed if they had cell phones.)

[@MhHasan-gg3xs]

Naval is tuned with the basics so nicely

[@suvendroseal1724]

This is a reupload. Please upload a new one with Naval, Tim.

[@nicolofrancescobernardi6120]

Choice less awareness is the cornerstone of Zen practice!

[@JeThoreau_]

Over 3 hours long? This is gonna be good Edit: oh it’s old episodes. Still gonna be good though

[@jolandabeach8784]

Enjoyable to listen to, thank you

[@kumarravishankar5047]

Hats off to such efforts

[@yanayprop]

What a combo, unexpected

[@Ryan.G.Spalding]

When was the original broadcast of the Nick episode? Has anyone tackled the Truffle project? I can't stop thinking about it.

[@NicholasPalance]

This is my Super Bowl 🙏✌️💙

[@Manyhailmarysatatime]

Wisdom shared is the gift that never dies! Thank you.

[@nawafdreams]

Key Takeaways 00:00 🛏 Naval Ravikant's Pod 4 Ultra Ad Introduction to Pod 4 Ultra by Eight Sleep. Features of Pod 4 Ultra, including cooling/heating capabilities and snore detection. Benefits of improved sleep quality and integration with wearables. 02:08 💊 Momentus Supplements Ad Introduction to Momentus supplements and their various categories. Endorsement of specific Momentus products for sleep improvement and cognitive performance. Highlighting partnerships with experts and emphasis on product quality and testing. 04:22 📖 Introduction to Podcast Anniversary Celebration Tim Ferriss introduces the special episode celebrating the podcast's 10th anniversary and one billion downloads. Explanation of the curated selection of guest segments from past episodes. Emphasis on featuring both well-known and lesser-known guests who have made significant impacts. 06:06 💡 Core Values and Lessons Learned by Naval Ravikant Naval discusses the importance of honesty derived from his upbringing and scientific background. Connection between honesty, happiness, and presence in the moment. Criteria for evaluating founders: intelligence, energy, and integrity, with emphasis on longitudinal relationships. 11:01 📚 Influential Books and Self-Development Naval emphasizes the importance of self-awareness and skill-building for various aspects of life. Recommends reading classic texts and philosophical works for timeless wisdom. Shares personal approach to reading books by treating them as disposable and exploring diverse topics. 16:13 🧠 Building Skills and Learning from Ancient Wisdom Naval discusses the challenge of modern attention spans and the value of ancient wisdom. Advocates for reading source books and classic texts for deep understanding. Shares his strategy for integrating book reading into a modern, fast-paced lifestyle. 19:02 🏆 Defining Success and Role Models Naval redefines success beyond traditional measures, emphasizing impact and contribution. Mentions individuals like Steve Jobs and Marc Andreessen as successful due to their transformative work. Highlights the importance of creating something that positively impacts humanity. 19:44 🧘 Success redefined Success is often associated with external achievements, but true success lies in inner peace and self-awareness. 21:21 🧠 Meditation practice Meditation, particularly choiceless awareness or non-judgmental awareness, helps achieve inner peace and gratitude by accepting the present moment without judgment. 26:26 💡 Power of habits Habits shape our lives profoundly, and consciously cultivating beneficial habits is key to personal growth and success. Developing and maintaining habits is a continuous process, often involving discarding old habits and adopting new ones over time. 29:56 🕰 Advice to younger self Embrace authenticity, prioritize personal growth, and cherish time, focusing on being present and nurturing self-love. 32:17 🛑 Controlling desires Recognize desire as a contract for unhappiness until fulfillment and practice acceptance to reduce suffering and find contentment in any situation. 38:47 📚 The intersection of options trading, decision-making, and behavioral economics Options trading involves making numerous decisions daily, akin to navigating a decision tree with a high chance of being wrong. Naval discusses how he views success as a pattern of correct decisions rather than a binary measure. Behavioral economics explores the rational and irrational aspects of decision-making, applicable across various domains like business, relationships, and art. 42:12 💡 The influence of studying philosophy on Naval's trajectory Naval's unexpected journey from intending to study political science and economics to becoming a philosophy major. Philosophy provided a foundation for critical thinking, logic, and processing information, shaping his approach to decision-making. Professor Bellmouth's mentorship emphasized clear thinking and succinct expression, honing Naval's analytical skills. 45:25 🎓 Transition from academia to trading: Mentorship and unconventional paths Naval's introduction to the trading world through a chance encounter with a successful acquaintance. His unconventional entry into trading involved faking his resume to secure a job and seeking mentorship from experienced traders. The importance of discipline, adaptability, and clear-headedness in navigating the chaotic trading environment. 53:15 📖 Philosophy as a source of inspiration and practical wisdom Philosophy offers timeless insights into fundamental questions and encourages curiosity and exploration of ideas. Naval recommends accessible philosophical works like Bertrand Russell's writings and exploring online resources like MIT OpenCourseWare. Lifelong learning and questioning conventional wisdom are essential for personal and intellectual growth. 59:14 📚 Naval's Journey into Trading Naval shares his journey into trading, including: Taking trading classes at the Merc and interviewing with big companies like Goldman Sachs and Société Générale. Questioning traditional job offers and seeking independence inspired by his father's entrepreneurial spirit. Finding a mentor who taught him options theory from scratch and his decision to start his own trading company.

[@nawafdreams]

01:01:46 💡 Training and Mentoring in Trading Naval discusses the importance of training and mentoring in trading, highlighting: Hiring a mentor who initially didn't want to hire him but taught him options theory extensively. The intense training regimen focused on mental agility and quick decision-making under pressure. The significance of making the training harder than actual competition to prepare for the fast-paced trading environment. 01:07:03 🎯 Asymmetric Risk and Mental Models in Investing Naval emphasizes the importance of asymmetric risk and recommends mental models for investing, including: Seeking opportunities with asymmetric risk where the potential upside outweighs the downside. Recommending Nassim Taleb's book "Fooled by Randomness" for understanding mispriced outcomes and the fallacy of averages. Reflecting on his personal approach to risk-taking, which involves pursuing ventures with high risk but high potential rewards. 01:11:36 🍽 Risk and Entrepreneurship in Different Industries Naval discusses risk perception in various industries, such as trading, restaurants, and startups, highlighting: The high failure rates associated with trading, restaurants, and startups, but his willingness to embrace risk. Contrasting the perceived risk of industries like restaurants with the challenge and excitement they offer. Sharing his experience transitioning from trading to consulting and eventually venturing into the restaurant business despite warnings about its challenges. 01:18:51 🍽 Dining Experience Evolution Transformative dining experience blending art, intellect, and emotion. Personal connection with Grant Achatz led to collaborative feedback on food. Beginning of the journey to co-create Alinea restaurant. 01:21:23 🤝 Building Alinea Initial encounter with Grant Achatz and the inception of Alinea. Collaborative planning and feedback process for the restaurant's concept. Launching Alinea marked by a unique dining experience and partnership. 01:28:16 🤔 Motivation and Commitment Inner dialogue questioning the pursuit of building a restaurant. Recognition of genuine commitment in individuals like Grant Achatz. Deep commitment and focus as key indicators of potential success. 01:34:42 💡 Innovative Questioning Reexamining traditional restaurant practices, starting with wooden tables. Problem-solving approach to practical and aesthetic challenges. Incorporating practical solutions into artistic elements for a unique dining atmosphere. 01:38:23 🍽 Reimagining Business Models in Hospitality Developing a unique approach to hospitality by challenging traditional norms. Emphasizing the importance of editing and openness in business decisions. Applying self-editing and open communication to shape innovative business models. 01:39:31 💡 Creating Financial Viability in Unconventional Business Ventures Leveraging open-source principles to develop restaurant business plans. Utilizing a "universal restaurant calculator" for financial modeling. Overcoming skepticism and achieving financial success through unconventional methods. 01:43:41 📈 Achieving Success Amidst Personal Challenges Coping with unexpected personal challenges while managing a business. Balancing the pursuit of business goals with personal well-being. Finding motivation and innovation during times of adversity. 01:47:11 💰 Revolutionizing Restaurant Reservations Implementing innovative solutions to address inefficiencies in restaurant reservations. Introducing dynamic pricing based on demand and day of the week. Enhancing customer experience and increasing revenue through strategic booking systems. 01:57:58 🍽 Restaurant Industry Challenges Challenges faced by the restaurant industry include attracting and retaining customers beyond the initial excitement phase. Exploring the idea of changing restaurant themes regularly to keep the experience fresh and capitalize on the versatility and passion of the chefs. 02:00:05 📅 Choosing a Historical Theme Selecting the year 1906 for the restaurant's theme was inspired by historical context and culinary significance. Discussion about the challenges of replicating historical cuisine without modern equipment and ingredients. 02:01:12 💻 Launching the Software Challenges and mishaps encountered during the launch of the software for restaurant bookings. Overwhelming response from customers highlighted the need for better infrastructure and preparation. 02:05:36 💡 Transparency and Innovation Embracing transparency in restaurant operations and booking systems to enhance customer experience. Utilizing innovative tools like Mameco charts for cost analysis, demonstrating applicability beyond the restaurant industry. 02:17:01 🍽 Business Ideas: Truffle Arbitrage Exploring business opportunities based on market inefficiencies. Example of truffle arbitrage, highlighting the opaque market and high prices. Naval's interest in exploring unconventional business ventures like truffle trading. 02:20:44 🕵‍♂ Pursuing Black Boxes Naval's approach to identifying and pursuing business opportunities. Encouraging curiosity and entrepreneurship among employees. Using challenging projects as filters to identify individuals with entrepreneurial drive. 02:27:46 📝 Hiring and Management Philosophy Naval's unique approach to hiring based on self-selection and transparency. Importance of aligning candidate values with company culture. Evaluating candidates through unconventional questions and gauging their compatibility with organizational demands. 02:32:30 ✉ Managing Email Overload Naval's struggle with managing email overload despite his commitment to personal responses. Implementation of filters and delegation to handle the influx of emails. Balancing personal engagement with customer communication while maintaining efficiency. 02:35:46 🐼 Creative Out of Office Replies Creating elaborate out of office replies as humorous excuses for being unavailable. Using imaginative stories like visiting a panda or attending retreats to explain absence. Employing humor in professional communication to lighten the mood. 02:38:06 📬 Importance of Acknowledging Messages Acknowledging messages, even without direct replies, demonstrates attentiveness. Showing that you're listening can alleviate the feeling of being unheard. It's essential in managing expectations and maintaining positive connections. 02:41:06 📚 Challenges in Publishing Industry Traditional publishing deals often involve hidden costs and restrictive terms. Lack of transparency in book printing costs and sales data. Negotiating non-traditional publishing agreements can offer more control and profitability. 02:50:06 💡 Innovative Negotiation Strategies Employing unconventional negotiation tactics, such as reverse Dutch auctions. Maximizing value and control in publishing deals through strategic pricing. Leveraging market dynamics to achieve favorable outcomes in negotiations. 02:55:10 📚 Collaboration with Allen Hemberger for "The Aviary Book" Nick and his team struggled to conceptualize another book after the success of the Alinea book. Allen Hemberger, a procedural effects artist, became fascinated with the Alinea book and spent five years cooking through it. Allen proposed the idea of collaborating on a book, detailing his journey of learning from the Alinea book. 02:58:18 📕 Partnership with Allen Hemberger for "The Aviary Book" Nick decided to work with Allen and his wife, who had expertise in graphics design. They established a partnership, giving creative freedom to create the book they envisioned. Despite initial concerns about economics, they focused on creating an exceptional product. 02:59:42 📸 Production and Marketing of "The Aviary Book" The Aviary book was produced independently without a distributor or publisher. Nick and his team raised awareness through a successful Kickstarter campaign, raising almost half a million dollars. The book, priced at $85, showcases intricate photography and detailed documentation of cocktail-making processes. 03:03:08 🍸 Nick's Favorite Cocktails and Artisanal Spirits Nick discusses his favorite cocktails, including the daiquiri and the mezcal margarita. The book also explores vintage spirits and artisanal distilleries, offering a comprehensive guide to cocktail enthusiasts. He emphasizes the culinary approach to cocktails, focusing on quality and presentation. 03:08:33 🎨 Personal Gifting and Intellectual Curiosity Nick shares his preference for vintage art books as gifts, highlighting his appreciation for unique and thoughtful presents. Intellectual curiosity is a central theme in Nick's life, encouraging others to embrace curiosity and exploration. He reflects on the importance of pausing and thinking amidst the fast-paced nature of life.

[@mandarrane]

Audio podcasts just dont feel right now

[@spatyo]

We’ve been fooled thinking it was a new episode

[@jeanettetalavera986]

Mezcal margarita 🤤😋

[@fredseifu2296]

Love this. The discussion of the details ... when u go this deep, the devil is not in the details. There is no devil.

[@MichaelBabich]

I don't understand why Tim reuploads old stuff. It's still up there. I know where to find it. Lazy content to sell more ads.

[@macleanlewis]

For new people that haven’t come across the older stuff? I can see the utility.

[@DelusionalX-oz5yz]

Yahoo ! It's a blockbuster before seeing it 💀

[@rasputintouring9014]

Why create new content if you can just recycle old stuff.. It's like with his later books - record podcasts with people, publish books with stuff people said on podcasts, record podcasts about books. Rinse and repeat for profit

[@sujaydutta8479]

Why do naval talks inturpted abruptly after 37 mins or something??? Please do upload The Naval talks sepertely without any other interruption. He is far more superior than so called any famous guy in any given day. You know that very well. Please...Please do upload The Naval talks sepertely without any other interruption. Please do reply 🎉

[@agookchild]

Artificial Intelligence is going to start using naval's face for clickbait.

[@pohdiquesti]

All the businesses books is about philosophical nuggets