Navia, Geo, and Frontloaded Damage

[@StanTheWoz]

In a way, Navia actually feels like the only geo character in the game in terms of teambuilding, since she's the only one that actually cares about the only reaction geo has.

[@ochouve1723]

So true

[@Uefeti]

Noele Driver kinda cares about crystalise, because she’s played for Petra Buff. But that ain’t a part of her kit, so you’re right

[@moobo3944]

Aside from lacking defense scaling, Geo MC still feels like the most identifiably "geo" character in the game imo. Its so strange to me that the archon of Geo himself seems like an outlier to the rest of his element, scaling with hp and his passive playstyle that ignores all the potentially interesting parts of his kit. (I still have never recovered from the Zhongli release incident)

[@DefinitelyNotAFerret]

Probably because geo mc power is more like the geo dragon

[@user-om3uy3bx9k]

That because the design of geo wasn't clear even for hoyo. Zhongli would be a whole different character, if released today

[@crownedking_cj8890]

Zhongli would lead u to believe geo is about shielding, but even then geo only have two shielders

[@gullugadha]

Hopefully Chiori turns out good too.

[@usmanya5110]

i wonder what her role will be? maybe as a geo healer since Itto can't make full use of Furina unless if c1-c2 furina.

[@rb8258]

Apparently she gives buffs based on what element crystalize shard you pick up.

[@dasukingjoes]

@@rb8258 free 4 archaic petra PauseChamp

[@pepelarrza3877]

There was a very sus kit leak that seemed soo good to be true that read like the perfect fanmade kit weve all been waiting for a Geo unit

[@Ulquiorra_Cifer]

She's a liyue character so she'll be playable at the very least

[@ishleyro5457]

I'd still be happy with seeing a Geo Nilou in the future (don't care if it's Chiori or not). Think something like a character who uses their skill to turn picking up crystallize shards into elemental damage explosions, dealing geo damage, but applying the element of the shard That would be straight up fun

[@artemsheen8064]

Like clam passive?

[@fogheta]

That'd be good, but I think now I'd like to have like stackable buffs instead. Pyro giving atk, hydro healing, electro restoring energy, Cyro giving CDMG buffs. That way you can build your team around elemental app Vs the buffs, esp as enemies are dealing more damage nowadays. Balancing that would be a very fine line though

[@luminous3558]

EM geo team OM

[@catsouplover7745]

I dont think that would be very interesting, i want a geo nilou in a sense that they change the geo reaction to something unique, different from another bloom.

[@kellywilson137]

Hoyoverse: Best I can do is TCG Azhdaha with the Elemental Absorb effect the Geo unit can inflict the absorbed element.

[@WitStop]

Zajef busting out some form of math to back up everything he says is so funny lmfao

[@ultimus616]

Magnetic inspired geo character that makes constructs pull enemies in when enemies are hit by geo damage, plus structure focused character that gives a defense boost per construct on field and a short geo dmg boost when a construct is destroyed

[@cibhiboopathy4534]

a geo grouper would be crazy

[@hedgeyes6411]

Gravity engine world boss being Geo really seems to imply that if a non-Anemo character was to get significant grouping, it'd be a Geo one.

[@hafidlho7332]

Make it a new reaction called "magnetize"

[@undeniablySomeGuy]

Imagine Geo grouper that causes shockwaves that draw enemies into nearby geo constructs

[@Yoonoh]

@@undeniablySomeGuy and then those constructs break because someone walked into them, but yea that would honestly go a long way to geo - giving it a identity with constructs and giving some grouping

[@darylewalker6862]

@@Yoonohdon’t the constructs break because they’re un-movable? And that’s why Ushi doesn’t die? Hmm, maybe a construct that detonates when destroyed (like Noelle’s C4), even by boss instant overlap.

[@lemonrose1254]

If they made a geo unit which reduces enemy defense if enemies are hit my geo constructs or are in a certain vicinity of a geo construct, I think that would be a great way to renew interest in geo, though that character would be strong.

[@Scythra]

Chiori maybe? I hope Chiori shred GEO res/ or enemy DEF. That way both Itto teams as well as Navia teams will get significantly better. (Also Chiori be a healer, Geo teams needs it!)

[@saadplays8214]

That's what zhongli does somewhat lol

[@cocoapuff_x]

@@saadplays8214yupp we just need someone who does it better (or maybe an artifact set thats like vv except its like when the character's geo constructs hit an enemy it reduces geo res by 40% or smth)

[@blaze8308]

We need a AOE Geo Healer which will enable ​ Furina in Itto teams@@cocoapuff_x

[@flamezforthegamez1056]

​@@cocoapuff_xgeo constructs have its own assortment of problems to deal with before any buffs or debuffs centered around them would be manifested. Maybe if a certain set of characters can enable constructs to create holographic replicas of themselves but are weaker than the original geo construct, the idea of yours may be more realistic.

[@nottherealendie]

You say that Geo constructs should be destructible, but most of the time they don't really do shit compared to Furina's salon members for example, who do so much more without fear of being killed. There's very little justification for their vulnerability. At least Albedo feels good to play with Navia because you can switch her off-field, but playing Albedo with Itto makes me wanna pull my hair out lmao.

[@MakuMaku-p3w]

They do more bad than good. Sometimes u climb Zhongli pillar or MC constructs by mistake, Albedo elevator can also fuck u, etc. Not only that, even if u want to use it, it breaks with anything thats big enough and get destroyed with 1 or 2 attacks (That when u can place it). Geo constructs should break only for 2 reasons. 1- The time ended and they break. 2- The characters are supposed to break it (ning and itto). No reason for Zhongli pillar, mc skills or Albedo flower actually break. Itto ushi its a geo constuct but doesnt work as one, yunjin, gorou and navia also doesnt have any. Its clear for me that geo constructs are a mistake from the past that must be forgotten

[@Mr.MasterOfTheMonsters]

It's not just occasional nukes from bosses. Some enemies in abyss oneshot Albedo and Zhongli constructs with regular attacks. They should at least triple the constructs HP together with making them ghostly. Another character that can send waves like Zhongli's pillar, but that does more than 5 damage would be appreciated.

[@froeloe]

*Simple solution to Geo constructs:* - geo constructs should be deployed no matter what regardless of enemy hitbox or environment/field. if geo constructs get destroyed, they should leave a *phantom yellowish construct* that will finish their duration. Think of Gorou’s yellowish flags. They can’t be destroyed. Whatever Gorou’s flags’ programming has should be applied on Geo phantom constructs. Enemies can destroy physical geo constructs, but enemies will NOT be able to destroy geo phantom constructs. enemies will just phase through them. however, Geo phantom constructs will not retain their physical properties (i.e. blocking attacks, being climbable, being used as an elevator), but they will NOT lose their other non-tangible functions (i.e. zhongli pillar will still pulse & resonate with other constructs, albedo’s flower will still procc explosions, ningguang’s screen will still provide geo dmg bonus, ushi will still taunt enemies, etc).

[@hedgeyes6411]

More importantly, umbrella warfare I guess.

[@Shiiwata]

i want chiori to be a healer and buffer. it's been 3 years and geo is still lacking an off-field healer. even dendro has 2 and it's a new element.

[@DefinitelyNotAFerret]

I would love for her to be a team-wide off field healer too

[@neilgondra7379]

Unrelated info here, as we have 1 patch away to welcome plunge meta. Theres 2 units who plunge faster than any sword units and its Bennett and Albedo, its not about their model or anything but they simply have faster animations unlike the rest who takes time to do a fancy spin. So its a buff for C6 Bennett Main-DPS and C4 Albedo havers for having Xianyun in the team, its kinda unecessary to know but it will be a smooth experience with these guys.

[@limonada4347]

how much faster is it, do you know?

[@Mr.MasterOfTheMonsters]

Something around 1.5x faster. Regular sword plunge at minmum height takes 1 second, you can do 3 Albedo/Bennett plunges in the time it takes to do 2 with other characters.

[@islowclick]

Bennet always wins

[@weiseklinge]

Chiori just needs to be Geo Kazuha

[@Blizandrio]

This. Crystallize as a way to proc geo and the element of the shard res shred.

[@Aregulargameplayer]

One of the biggest problems with Geo units is that none of them actually care about Crystallize, their only reaction which doesn’t really contribute to their playstyle beyond providing an avenue for Geo resonance. Mihoyo was probably expecting Archaic Petra to be Geo’s equivalent to VV but it just isn’t. Navia is different since she effectively converts more crystallize shards into bigger damage. So I’d like to see Chiori do more with Crystallize, whether that puts her more into mono Geo (pls no) or a more general support.

[@fogheta]

Petra is still fundamentally broken sadly as it can't proc when the holder is not on field, it's so stupid.

[@legendnbg97]

Geo would be a lot better if they just made the fkin constructs indestructible. Geo feels like ass rn because your rotations and ER requirements are RNG based on whether your construct breaks or not.

[@raulfigas20]

its not really cuz navia can use crystalise that she is good, she just has good numbers tahts why she is good zhongli itself doesnt use crystalise and he is a solid overall unit, problem is not crystalise, the geo units we had before navia just had shit numbers to begin with

[@Mugetsu192]

​@@raulfigas20 you do realize that her damage multiplier scales with crystalize shards stacks right?

[@flamezforthegamez1056]

​@@foghetaand that gives me expectations that Chiori is a built-in Archaic Petra like Chevreuse is built in VV for the elements of overloaded. If Chiori is a team healer with built in Petra, she may debut in teams where she can be the alternative to VV, such as in Furina teams, simply because Jean isn't a guaranteed character when Chiori is.

[@Peharion88]

Best part of Navia in open world is you find fire/ice flower or electro ore and load 6 bullets and just one shot everything. That's awesome.

[@gilr5276]

That's why those "Damage per screenshot" doesn't always mean bad thing, as explained by Zajeff DPS in theory obviously wont mirror everything in practice, and Frontloaded by definition is putting most of your damage in short period of time while DPS is calculated through an entire rotation do y'all know what's International DPS on normal assumption have? like 50k or even less, same with Ayaka, Lyney and Raiden without off-field DPS, their team hardly touch 60k with KQM assumptions, while all those other top sustained meta team like hyperbloom or Neuvi can touch 70k+ but still those team i mentioned above are still competitive in clear time because they have frontload damage, my fastest clear on the 2nd chamber is Eula, Raiden, Furina, Jean, i just accurately predict to detonate one of their nuke when i want to kill the boss so in theory this situation in practice doesnt follow the calcing DPS rule since i kill the enemy before the rotation end I Just feel like people are focusing Excel DPS too much because TCers like Jstern, Zajeff, TGS are getting popular and people start to throw those number like a bible, i appreciate Zajeff on explaining this kind of thing where it's more common in practice because Genshin has a lot of variables and not just a calculator game, anyway at the end of the day Genshin isnt a hard and competitive game and you should pull on what you like and this kinda stuff should be the last thing you think about

[@episode4882]

You should pull for whoever you like in terms of gameplay Pulling solely based on aesthetics won’t do you good, cause what’s the point of looking good if you will end up benching him/her anyway, for example pulling for clown retainer without having a Xiao

[@gilr5276]

@@episode4882 Not every person who play this game gives a single fuck about that, yes people can pull in terms of aesthetic and not every person in this category care to have their character kill the enemy the fastest, tons of people i see are just pulling because they think this character are pretty / handsome, they literally only care about having their favourite character on the screen to be played also what's this again, CR at a baseline is a VV support catalyst that can teamwide heal and bit of grouping, that's already more than good enough, she just has an added utility to buff plunger and its not just Xiao who can take the advantage of it, judging a beta char this early is also questionable

[@TheSast]

​@@episode4882The assmption is that a perwon will pull a few chars for aesthetics and get others that are good to fit that char into a reasonable team, which can be done with every character.

[@episode4882]

@@gilr5276 true it’s still v1, but it’s funny how Hoyo has already been making newer dps completely powercreep most of the older ones, but when it comes to support, CR’s kit is still conservative, Kazuha is released literally 2 years ago, I think it’s about time for a upgraded version of him And keep in mind, majority of play base is still CN, it’s undeniable that players care about meta more than aesthetics or personalities of the characters, Yoimiya and Dehya’s banner sales are perfect representation of that, very well written, heavily involved in multiple events, main quests etc, but still flops hard A counter example is Yelan, ugly ass looking in game model, which most CN community even the Yelan simps admit, but still generate big sales bcs she was/is meta, barely any presence in main quests outside of Chasm, but still popular bcs players use/play her a lot, time creates affection, so players grow a liking to her even though there’s so little character writing on Yelan Gameplay matters more than aesthetics

[@episode4882]

@@TheSast true, but no many have the brain capacity to realize that, say for example a dude really liked Shenhe and got her without having Ayaka, but then he dislikes Ayaka’s aesthetics and gameplay and don’t wanna pull her What happens next is that they realize Shenhe feels shit to play, cause there’s literally no team for her to fit in to perform, they then start regretting and shit, which will end up demeriting their motivation or incentive to continue playing, often happens in CN community In contrast they could’ve pulled a character they may not like the aesthetic as much but like the gameplay a lot, seeing good dmg and know the character has big room for improvement, this will motivate them to extend game hours to farm artifacts, save primos for teammates catered towards that character and more, this way we get more players in the community, players having fun with the character that actually provide ‘good’ gameplay, Hoyo gets more money from having more possibilities of players spending, content creators get more views, everyone is happy

[@aventurussy]

I just hope chiori is geo healer I'm surprised we still don't have one, noelle doesn't really count. chiori could be a healer that cares about cristallize reactions maybe

[@RaeshHaze]

Gorou: (Jk, he also doesn't count)

[@editimpact66]

Doubt they would release 2 healers back to back tbh

[@effluxi9587]

She doesn't really have to be a full healer, just Xingqui level defensive utility would be cool. So honestly just make crystallise actually usable and give a small heal from it

[@asdf_asdf948]

EM scaling healer that buffs on crystallize with offfield geo app

[@Jrmy_Makaveys]

​@@effluxi9587we want chiori to be a healer,mostly for furina,so in reality yes we want more than xq. Zhongli or bennett exist so ofc its not just for the defensive utility

[@kook3585]

I really do hope they start releasing more geo characters, since imo they're doing more mono elemental character type now and mono geo is a cool comp

[@wellwellwell881]

I'd really like Chiori to be a buffer/healer, or at least a 5* geo in the future would be that. If her buffs were universal, like crit or damage buffs, or maybe something like Shenhe quills, then she could be used with both Navia and Itto, and let both work with Furina. On a side note, is it a good or a bad thing that I just keep trying to make teams around Furina? It's not like I simp for her, but her kit is just too good and easy to use...

[@isas.5667]

There’s nothing bad about enjoying a character so much that most teams include her :) have fun!

[@Sarge-at-Large]

Zajef Keeps asking for a Geo character that is buffed by the number of constructs on the field; knowing Mihoyo, they would most likely cap such an effect to have a max limit of 3 additional stacks

[@thornszk]

God I hope Chiori doesn't have destructible or climbable geo construct.

[@lynsmanz384]

I feel like Sumeru was supposed to have a geo character in the desert but Hoyo was too afraid to release one or too lazy to figure it out

[@DefinitelyNotAFerret]

A HUGE missed opportunity to have a sand based geo character. They probably want to save it for Natlan

[@termina2737]

For real. I thought for sure we’d get a sand-based geo character. Gaara vibes.

[@undeniablySomeGuy]

remember how awesome Geo MC was in 1.0? man those were some of the days of all time

[@esserefveermold]

Would be cool to have a chatacter whose burst/skill would make all the constructs on field explode and do aoe geo dmg Kinda like Kaveh's e does to dendro cores, but with a bigger range ofc

[@hosainyu8657]

Right right right right🗣️🔥

[@markusbrendon]

Geo really has the worse treatment in the game, the reaction sucks, the contructs dont provide any advantage in comparison to other units constructs(or summons) and can break, and the only advantage they have wich is a good element shield, but only zhongli has one that can be usefull for the team

[@joshricaborda1014]

👍

[@Yoonoh]

I've always hated that they gave shields to geo characters, like bro their only reaction is to create shields why does zhongli need to give a big ass shield

[@itsrichev]

they could easily patch crystallize so that each shield grants buffs that correspond to elements it reacts with. i don’t know, maybe pyro increases dmg deal, or hydro reduces damage received, rather than just merely taking up damage. even if it’s just in small percentage.

[@flamezforthegamez1056]

But it has the best elemental resonance. Geo resonance is strong, but makes sense since other elements have methods to get res shred while it is combined efforts of Zhongli and geo resonance that makes equivalent of VV for geo damage. Geo also has best multipliers to compensate for lack of reactions in its toolbox. That said, I think crystallize should be a method to buff said high raw multipliers. A pyro crystal shard would give a 25% atk bonus. A cryo one gives 10% crit rate. An electro shard refunds 8 energy. A hydro gives a 20% max HP bonus. Basically, crystallize needs tools to buff itself and not just other elements like Archaic Petra.

[@ThegreatHera420]

20:01 I’m dumb but how about like a revamped quota system. Like Chiori heals periodically on skill but her burst lowers geo resistance by 20%(basically get vv) then after a character does a skill, she does her own dmg and then every normal or charged attack hit the damage increases by flat dmg up to 5 times and then resets as long the burst is active and it can only happen two times. This would make it that Navia first skill doesn’t get buffed but the second one does and that Itto CA gets buffed to the last hit then the second CA does also get buffed.

[@vulpixel]

Another reason I love the navia furina Noelle core, Noelle takes care of the aoe.

[@jacobseil7996]

Seeing Zajef mildly upset over how good Navia is is oddly gratifying 😂

[@brutalterminator3868]

13:44 i dont know why he has a certain bias over some characters or something, but my albedo in itto comp literally does around 33k ticks and all that without needing to battery him or anything like u need to do for other off fields like xl and he just straight up says albedo's not that great. Like bro itto mono geo is literally his best team where he can take advantage of gorou and resonance and in that scenario,for some reason he considers him not that great.Maybe if he played someone other that xingqui and xiangling all the time he would know these stuff.

[@jyusatsu]

His personal bias obviously

[@wolf4392]

That's still just 300k dmg per rotation while doing nothing else for the team. You think that's good while being at risk of literally doing 0 dmg when its a boss?

[@musicaddict9058]

That's cool, how much damage does your albedo tick do when his flower gets destroyed every other floor?

[@vukkicos5688]

​@@wolf4392They fixed Albedo's flower about 2 patches ago. As long as you do not fk up the placement (like putting it on the boss) it will be a lot harder for bosses to destroy it. Also, a lot of people forget that he has 120 (or 125, I always forget) teamwide EM buff, which can be useful in some teams.

[@brutalterminator3868]

@wolf4392 while doing nothing else?Can u tell me what xiangling does other than providing damage?Also there are very few bosses who can destroy his construct when u actually place it properly,learn how to place it properly, u can hold it and aim it literally

[@fogheta]

Don't think there'd ever be a day id hear Zajef call a Geo unit 'pretty good' but im so happy it is for Navia, us geo mains were starving for 2 years but we finally eating good. Hoping the best for Chiori too

[@MATSUMATSURIKA]

i used to be a geo hater but navia actually made me change my ways. such a fun character. probably the funnest imo

[@Вергилий-р4н]

Shouldn't you as a geo main feel bad about Navia being decent? If hoyo will see her success as a guide for the future of the element, most older geo character will suffer.

[@sandwich3659]

Itto is good with enough investment

[@fogheta]

​@@Вергилий-р4нShe's a lot better than just decent lol, are we playing the same character? And despite all that, even if she was, this game is easy asf and mhy have made it very clear the ceiling they want this game to reach- fun factor has a much higher value, especially over time. Apart from Furina (Support) and Neuvillette (Overtuned numbers) she's the best unit easily this patch, and the most fun too. Fun wise, every other unit is either functionally locked behind cons (Wrio) or locked into one team (Lynney). Removing her from mono geo and being a claymore for DS purposes gives her a much broader kit. They seem to want to have two directions for Geo (Mono and Crys), just like how you have Spread/Quicken Vs Bloom derivatives for Dendro.

[@fogheta]

​@@sandwich3659Yeah Itto is still insanely underrated imo, but I think the perception of him is fine with the investment he requires. I'm just happy to see them giving value to the most worthless reaction, hopefully that continues w Chiori

[@linkfreedom7277]

"you shouldn't have C1 zhongli" *remembers what Zajef has [insert trollface]*

[@tracer4b]

I wouldn’t want to see enemies which actually have 10m+ HP and which take 8+ rotations to kill. That would just turn into a slog. Recent floor 12s have focused more on technique and dealing with actually threatening enemies (Coppelia) without dying. If there ever is a floor 13 or equivalent I hope they lean more into that side instead of just x5 the hp pools and call it a day

[@Nudderbols]

Is golden troupe Navia's BIS? The 4 pc clears after 2 seconds on field so you can skill with her asap and catch the buff

[@luisgerardobujandalopez4994]

Yeah hoyo straight up said Geo is not bad, its skill issue, and then proceeded to not release more geo units, and not fix geo construct, they go back on their words so much

[@Khangst]

take a shot for every time Zajef says “right?”.

[@0rmy]

What if there’s a character that want their construct to be hit by their own characters to increase strength or whatever ability of the construct.

[@dylan_brauns]

I had the same thought! Like, Geo attacks on Geo constructs, should allow the construct to resonate without the need for Zhongli's pillar.

[@0rmy]

@@dylan_brauns more reasons make the structures less breakable against bosses for sure. Merrry Christmas!

[@dylan_brauns]

@@0rmy Exactly! Merry Christmas!!!🎄❤✨

[@tigransargsyan3398]

i couldnt think of a reason to not make construct based geo characters, until you mentioned geo mc, i think they dont want a completly free unit to be better than limited ones. also, a character who buffs crystalise significantly to be a shielder could be interesting.

[@effluxi9587]

The bigger reason they don't want to make constructs a bigger feature of kits is because they're janky and bosses or bigger enemies immediately invalidating a unit by breaking their construct feels fucking dogshit and they don't know how to fix it without making then EVEN jankier.

[@m_milos]

i've been wanting a geo crystallize shielder since i started playing the game in 1.3. it's such a cool concept and it's really easily executable. like just have a passive talent that buffs the em -> shield hp conversion rate and that's it. maybe add in different buffs for different elemental shields and boom, great kit

[@tigransargsyan3398]

@@effluxi9587 i don't think its hard to code constructs to be immune to bosses and i don't think changing constructs would create any kind of backlash in the community. Yes, bosses passing through constructs would be illogical, but its not a big deal(Teyvat has its own laws after all). They could just rework all constructs, maybe even nerf GMC's constructs, and make new characters based on constructs, like getting buffs on the amount of constructs around, or a geo Nilou that increases resonating damage by a lot. Those are ideas that come to mind instantly, im sure there are much cooler ideas on construct based characters, but Hoyo just don't wanna do it.

[@darylewalker6862]

@@tigransargsyan3398doesn’t Ushi not instantly dying against bosses comes from him being pushable? Just make new constructs movable. Or detonate when killed by any reason.

[@flamezforthegamez1056]

Hoyo avoids geo construct based characters because the boss hitbox issue. Some geo constructs also don't interact the same way. Geo Traveler's causes enemies to be displaced to the top of it. If it applies to bosses, you may be stuck with enemies on top of a platform and it ruins the experience. That could apply to Albedo flower or Zhongli. Plus Hoyo takes minimalism to extreme and hardly adds any more buttons to the combat interface so we don't have an interact on approaching button for Albedo's flower or climbing constructs. They could probably use the swap with T like they did with the xenochromatic squid. Geo construct design is just inconsistent. Geo Traveler's Boulder is more durable than the rest of geo constructs. Albedo's flower doesn't activate elevation if on slanted terrain or below a low ceiling or overhang. Zhongli's pillar doesn't have manual placement. And several constructs work off of beign destroyed like Ningguang C2, Ushi, and Geo Traveler C4. What needs to happen is either ghost constructs that work like constructs but with 75% efficiency and/or energy refunded when it gets destroyed. So ningguang jade screen gives 3 geo particles when broken, Geo MC's gives 4, Albedo's gives 3, Zhongli's gives 3, and Itto's gives 4.

[@endolucas854]

Geo constructs should be indestructible

[@diogoschneider2479]

I would like a geo character that works with crystalize and EM so you want to use it with albedo and his burst, while having a character with good elemental application to generate more crystalizes and even sucrose to buff it even more and get grouping

[@simplyrem779]

Those charts aren't what I thought frontloaded damage looks like

[@nk30020]

Navia left him speechless

[@sakura_branches]

what i'd like to see is a nilou like character who turns crystalize shards into dmg if you have a team that's geo plus either pyro/electro/cryo/hyrdro. i think it'd be fun and having the ability to choose whether you run pyro characters or hydro characters or whatever would make it feel less restrictive than nilou's passive

[@megumeanie]

Almost navia, kinda

[@eopusaequili]

I'm gonna put what he said in the feedback suggestion

[@EngelAguilar]

I really like the discussion of Navia vs Itto, because I think both are balanced in their own dmg, but Navia having access to better teammates is so good for team dmg and one of Geo's weakness... Breaking shields But Itto works as hypercarry so is limited to 3 geo teammates bc of Gorou But the 4th? In other teams will be: - Anemo... Aware - Furina? You can't heal enough - Bennett? Itto has too much atk and Albedo doesn't care about it - Dendro...? Aware - Another sub dps/buffer? Probably needs a lot of ER or doesn't work with charged attacks So it's all on Itto, when his charged attack ends the team dmg goes to 0, that's why his C6 is one of the best... "Infinite" charged attacks xD

[@namohoai5846]

I know right. That's why I agree Navia is somewhat better because she can use more character. Beside Gorou, Itto just doesn't have any 3rd and 4th teammates that truly truy make impact

[@Tnscla]

Its Zhongli tho, 20% res shred + full time shield for geo resonance. Its always been Zhongli, its not even a question...

[@siamshikdar]

Geo cant break shield? now that's a take of all time.

[@EngelAguilar]

@@siamshikdar think of this abyss, pyro shields everywere, you can break those with geo, but what if you replace them with hydro characters? Remember that the abyss is a fkn timer, you aren't rewarded for killing the enemies, you have to do it in 3min or you get nothing (-50 primos, acc ruined)

[@EngelAguilar]

@@Tnscla yes, but Geo Resonance is a mini zhongli with 15% shield strength (good for cristalize), +15% dmg and -20% Geo RES And Itto has increased RES to interruption, we just use zhongli because anyone else that could really increase team dmg and produce cristalize will have ER issues or cut their dmg in more than half xD Furina will be amazing for this, but you need to heal the entire team and only noelle can do that xD imagine if Itto had acces to that xD

[@marza1988]

What do you think of cloud retainer with c6 furina?

[@Gnurklesquimp2]

Another potential issue with frontloading is putting all your eggs in that basket. The downtime can be very awkward, but yeah, it'll almost always catch up again. Burst dps being so commital can also kinda have a flipside, though, if there's a shorter opportunity to deal good dmg, you'd lose more of your sustained dps than you'd lose burst dps for delaying it, if you even need to. Burst dps can also be very nice to just finish a chamber, there's no downtime at that point, but that may make energy awkward. (Xinqiu's nuke being his E alleviates that for him, constant self-pyro app boss pls) Then there's Eula, it's backloaded which causes this downside without the upsides, and boy does she suck to battery.

[@aboal-fuad16yearsago55]

Did he talk about plunge hu tao in a live stream?

[@Mrigendra-B]

Yes, he calculated the dmg if I remember correctly.

[@jassonchen]

if a geo construct is destroyed due to the construct limit, or due to skill allowing only a certain number, it should radiate that large aoe quake shit that abyss enemies (like ruin guards or geovishaps) would typically have and completely stagger enemies for a second while dealing dmg based on the remaining uptime the construct had. if the construct is destroyed normally, it should just explode and deal damage too.

[@micheladax]

Mihoyo need to change the code of constructs to be the same as the summons so constructs never get destroyed when you summon it.

[@jacobgriffea2458]

I always thought it would be cool if upon breaking geo constructs would apply an aoe debuff. Or the could make a geo healer that makes constructs heal the active character and when destroyed give a team heal. I like the idea of geo alot and think they even have potential for grouping with a quicksand ability if another character that is made around petrifing

[@lehuyhoang116]

I'd like a character that explode constructs in sequence like the pillar puzzles above the Chasm, the next one in the chain will do more damage and aoe than the last. Kind of like miners chain blasting rocks.

[@Rayhaku808]

What if the only thing that Chiori does is make Crystallized shields stronger and make them stackable to a certain limit lol

[@donpetronio3166]

>Gorou is hard to get meanwhile, i got easy C6 Gorou while pulling for Wanderer and 0 Faruzan. Bet if i was pulling for Itto, I would get c6 Faruzan and no Gorou

[@UncannyCreative8128]

I think chiori might be a weaker Geo Furina with more focus on healing but a pretty good damage buff

[@figlet6427]

God don't give me hope like that😭😭

[@kokoro3293]

Maybe they release a geo character who makes constructs undestructable.

[@agentsig6100]

Geo constructs can still be useful as a form of crowd control by stonewalling enemies preventing them from spreading. Geo constructs that moves and pushes enemies center field

[@1NabbinatoR]

navia burst bombardment deal aoe damage in a RNG way, if the bomb drop on a geo construct an additional AOE damage will be dealt also reducing the burst cooldown of all geo party member in the team including her. Navia burst multipliers are higher than now. but her burst cost now 100. the most expensive burst in genshin. Navia E regen particle is increased and also specialy shared like fav if she can hit a critical spot on enemy.

[@sendcottoncandypls]

isnt it 60 cost lol

[@meikkuikamuzu5869]

@@sendcottoncandyplsit is

[@Wizard_Lizard_]

15:32 What would be perfect is a new support that buffs charge attacks. Them shredding Geo Res would be a nice bonus.

[@thornszk]

Neuvillette: 🤤👍

[@FreneticPotato]

I'd rather they just make a unit that buffs geo damage like Gorou, except without the 15% cap and the tradeoff is the character can't buff defense like him but can shred Geo res. This way the character can be a universal geo buffer for both atk and def scalers. They seem to not be fully on-board with the whole def meta for geo anymore so why not just make the unit universal? Itto gains another buffer and Navia gets a viable one as well.

[@loufu123]

​@@FreneticPotatoif we got dendro vv why not geo vv 😓

[@jonnevitu4979]

Zajeff cant turn off the option that makes genshin mute itself while on alt tab like bruuuuh

[@FreneticPotato]

it only mutes if you minimize the window, not when you alt+tab. As in it only works if you manually click the minimize window button _or_ use [Win key + down key]

[@desrainis123]

0:15 Baizhu cosplay

[@rapmabida9813]

I still don't get why dendro doesn't react with geo the stuff they grow on

[@RADZIO895]

12:52 if the spread was bigger, it'd be hard to get all 11 shots to hit the enemy and her dmg would be ass

[@skitzoturtle]

the way the graph is drawn indicates there is no situation where sustained damage is better than front loaded damage. doesn't the front loaded damage have to dip under sustained at some point in the time line? the way it is gives me the impression that front loaded damage is always better and characters with sustained damage should never be pulled.

[@termina2737]

Will Zhongli always be the only Geo character who has access to Petrify?

[@koi8670]

they will probably release a 4 star geo for navia.

[@evantheatheist]

Zajef: You shouldn't have C1 Zhongli Me, sweating after losing my pulls for his C2 like a year ago: :)

[@masterjedicat]

Burgeon Albedo - replace Razor in Thundering Furry and get max Albedo damage.

[@ame5851]

Basically dehya but better

[@vulpixel]

Yeah she might not be a meta crushing hypercarry with her damage, but I’m glad she works as a strong subdps still.

[@seph4707]

You want Zhongli's shield in itto teams if you want geo resonance up. Having to assume C6 Gorou for Itto sucks, but people do have it so I mean, its entirely valid to calc for and judge performance on. Though yes, Navia doesn't need a C6 4 star to perform well, so fair enough.

[@deku8966]

Navia is Eula done right

[@episode4882]

Eula simps in denial and malding right now

[@damas-0]

Eula is a character done wrong

[@gintasasd]

​@episode4882 and? Lol people still play klee even if she is ass eula is good unit but physical is neglected for 3 years so blame hoyo not eula

[@gintasasd]

​@@damas-0cap

[@episode4882]

@@gintasasd don’t be mad, those who still play Klee are either content creators farming dem pedophiles’ views or 2IQ players building full def%

[@sparklytwinkly]

I still want a geo character to summon a golem/mecha to ride at some point. But as for a character that "saves geo"...just make them have a shield bot skill that restores shield hp/duration by party members absorbing crystalize shards, and then for their burst just make it a big earthquake that will do middling aoe damage and then resonate with constructs releasing aftershocks all in a large aoe, the more constructs you resonate with the more buffs you get when the quake ends. Like Def up for 1, general dmg% for 2 and defense ignore for 3. If you go over 3 you get some energy back maybe. For one of their passives make the burst refresh the duration of a construct it resonates with maybe? not sure on the other passive.

[@moimeme3122]

is that your copium sandrone kit?

[@swashbucklingstephen4775]

something abt enemy design that bothers me is that there’s like nothing they do besides being bullet sponges like there’s no tricks to killing them faster besides the eremites’ animals dying. there was potential with arke but they just made it a stub mechanic like it would’ve been cool if it reduced enemy def when they’re broken that way it would actually matter like imagine if you didn’t have kazuha so to swirl you’d have to use anemo mc with the holy blade (cuz lynette has garbage ouisa application) that would be something cool or say they’re a geo weak enemy with ouisa shields that’s made for navia but you can get away with not using her and using itto/ningguang with albedo/geo mc running holy blade

[@DefinitelyNotAFerret]

So kinda like with the consecrated beast design?

[@ronaldstanford1725]

I know it's kind of off topic but I got a question for @Zajef Daily. So far every element has a sheilder except for hydro and anemo; do you think in the future will ever get (if any) hydro and anemo shielders because I think that would be interesting for the meta imo.... What do you think?

[@cadeemmusgrove7791]

I’m not sure how it works but I think HMC creates a hydro shield

[@FreneticPotato]

@@cadeemmusgrove7791 hydro mc gains a hydro shield at C4 but it's only active during their skill.

[@cadeemmusgrove7791]

@@FreneticPotato thx for clarifying. Lmao they went out of their way to make HMC so bad

[@minatol2713]

I have them both and overall Navia is better than Itto. Itto teams are very restrictive and kinda expensive (Gorou, Albedo, Johnlee) but navia can work with most of the 4 stars characters available for a F2P. DPS wise tho, Itto is still the strongest.

[@Axterix13]

Team-wise, though, I think Navia comes out ahead, at least until we get a geo healer so Itto can join in the Furina fun while keeping Gorou.

[@loveisnotachoice168]

Say right another time... right?

[@Punniz]

Surely Natan is the geo nation *copium*

[@video_game_royal4797]

I thought most people played Fischl in Itto teams if she wasn't already being used on the other side

[@sydorovich2532]

Literally the difference between JL and DHIL and other carries in HSR.

[@sweatymobilegamer784]

The one thing I disagree with is geo construct balancing. As it currently stands, considering how plain umimpressive the capabilites of constructs are, it is absolutely not justified for them to be broken even by enemy attacks. Why should the elemental skills, for example, of Raiden, Nahida, and Furina be so...unconditionally present I guess while Zhongli's and Albedo's get auto-deleted if you place them .2 centimeters too close to a boss? ZL's pillar isn't even that useful (or fun imo) in overworld and can actively hinder you in abyss if you run into it on accident since it's climbable. And Albedo's elevator? Like really ffs?

[@redfoxakame]

I actually agree tho. One thing I didn't like about Navia's kit as a geo character is that she was made basically to ignore the geo element and just go boom. Nothing was added to the geo element itself. Nothing changed. Don't get me wrong, Navia is cool. I just want more geo characters that can actually make GEO good, not just one character.

[@joshricaborda1014]

👍

[@matamatmassivetac5789]

Yeah, that's exactly how I feel too. Geo deserves better than just someone with high multipliers. I mean we got Dendro and Electro paired, they're not built for one big instance of damage with less conditions. They intricately use nature of elements to set up buffs and debuffs. If only crystalize was given that opportunity instead of only creating a shield that can tank one hit before peacing out.

[@joshricaborda1014]

@@matamatmassivetac5789 👍

[@sivasankars808]

I dont get it. How navia ignored geo element. She is the only one using geo of all other geo characters. Others are just yellow physical. People who complained about navia are not geo mains but itto mains it's fact. Just like video says itto need good buffing units, but mihoyo decide to release only 8/9 geo characters over 3 years, where dendro cross 10 in 1 year

[@redfoxakame]

@@sivasankars808 exactly like you said. She is the _only one_ using geo. Even when she got added to the geo roster, only she could use what she has. That proves my point that she added nothing to the geo element. Cause it didn't matter for other geo characters. This isn't complaining about Navia. It's good that she can utilize the only reaction geo has. All we're saying is we needed _something_ to the geo element itself that every geo character can use. We just thought Navia could be it, so we were disappointed, but it doesn't mean we don't like Navia. This is about the direction of the geo element itself.

[@SageRuffin]

This is besides the point, but does Zajef not know that you can stop characters from idling if you sit them down? Addendum: Also, Zajef missed the best (worst?) example in his construct rant: Rhodeia of Loch where it turns out _the entire arena_ is an enemy hitbox. If Zhongli's shield was reliant on his pillar staying intact, he'd still be just as bad as on release, I tell ya.

[@Forakus]

He's pretty bad though

[@Daniele-PierreDuLac]

Lol didn’t he explain this a while back when he explained why C0/low investment Hu Tao isn’t that impressive of a character but really pops off once you getting amazing artefacts, weapons and dso on?

[@doubleh2002]

Geo constructs should have their own HP bars and shouldn’t die with just one hit. Any truers?

[@LeaVladimir]

I hope at some point all the characters get better wings. That's all.

[@luke2517]

Isn't that all assuming the frontloaded team never falls behind the sustained damage team ever? In that case you just started with a better team overall and nothing matters... If there were points where sustained team does more damage that would be a more fair comparison, and you still make your point, but there would be points where sustained shines... 2 minute graph logic is 2 minute graph logic

[@Axterix13]

He adjusts that sort of when he draws the sustained line through the middle, giving them equal DPS. But that isn't usually the case in good game design either. In good design, sustained damage teams out-damage burst ones in the long run. This is because front loaded damage lets you eliminate lower to mid hp enemies quickly, reducing the incoming threat, as well as better exploit things like bosses with limited damage windows (since frontloaded teams tend to be able to do their damage in a small time window). But even if they are equal DPS, there are other cases where sustained damage has advantages. One would be against a non-stop stream of low hp enemies. A burst team would overkill the first wave, and then deal crappy damage on the next wave or two. A sustained team will not waste nearly as much damage, and therefore kill faster. Spread out enemies are another issue. If you can't hit them all with your front loaded damage, now you have to rely on your crappy damage. A sustained DPS team, again, just happily churns through from one to the next. And this is why anemo effectively only has two units, so those two units deal with that particular issue. But me, in this latest Abyss, tossed my Yae and Furina team at the multi-enemy side, and it demolished it, because it just dealt with enemy after enemy, without needing to group them or for me to run to them. Just sustained ranged DPS that didn't even need me to target things. That said, there are very few teams in Genshin that are really one or the other. Most teams are a mix of both. Sure, Raiden's burst is front loaded, but it isn't bad sustained either, and she has the rest of the team to help out, typically (part of why nobody really plays mono-electro... the team doesn't have enough sustained damage). And that Yae and Furina team of mine also had Navia in it. So if there was a high hp, unshielded enemy, then Navia would get to shoot it.

[@Aceleo209]

Whats sucks is that hoyo haven't released a new geo unit with constructs after Zhongli. I think they figured constructs are bugged with zhongli release and decided to never acknowledge their existance. (No I refuse to believe ushi is a construct. Its a baron bunny with a geo construct tag)

[@kingcr2741]

i just want chiori be kazuha of geo. i want her ult just like kazuha doing shock wave every 2.5 s and reduces geo res to all enemies and her talent is if any character pick up crystallize they gain +dmg dealt (like furina ult).

[@sultanofswing44]

I think chiori will be a healer. The only geo healer is Noelle, who needs field time to heal. I wouldn't bet my life on it, but it just seems like they want healers in every element.

[@JustSomeGuy009]

Tell me, what team doesn't have "dog shit" damage when setting up? You're setting up, by definition it's going to have bad damage vs post setup damage. 🤦‍♂️

[@moimeme3122]

hyperbloom for you ;)

[@mismismism]

I'm mixed on Navia too. She's very fun and her skill does a lot of damage but she really is basically not Geo in a way, she uses Crystallize but she ignores everything else about the element. It feels like instead of reworking Geo they're just gonna make characters that basically act like they have no element. Chiori will likely be the unit that makes it clear what their plan for Geo is, I'm guessing mono Geo is a thing of the past they just ignore going forward.

[@Axterix13]

Isn't that basically geo, though? Zhongli makes crystalize pointless, as his shield is better. Itto doesn't care about crystals, pure brute force smashing, so he's even less about geo than Navia. Most of Albedo's use has been because he's the second best off-field geo, used to obtain geo resonance... not a good thing considering he was also one of only two choices. Noelle has a shield, and while she cares about being shielded, it is only if it is her shield. So again, doesn't care about crystalize. Gorou is a def+geo buffer that wants 3 geos on the team, so again pushes you away from crystalize, even if he does vacuum them in. Navia is the first geo that actually cares about its reactions, and not only that, actively encourages you to play her in teams where she can have that reaction, even though she does have means to get charges without PECHs. And teaming with other elements is what geo has been sorely needing to make it interesting. Now, hopefully, Chiori will have a kit that also does something with crystalize, combined with healing, to push Zhongli out of at least some groups with geo in them.

[@mismismism]

@@Axterix13 No, Zhongli is the only other one I'd put in that category since he's not focused on Geo really but It to wants Geo resonance, Def boosts and stuff from Gorou, etc, all the other Geo want mono Geo for the most part, like they fit into that design of Def and shields and kind of buffing each other. Navia works as a sub DPS for Noelle since her skill just does so much damage but she doesn't actually want other Geo and she's ATK scaling so she actually kind of works against most other Geo units. It's weird, she basically exists just as a character with a really hard hitting skill with the crystallize thing being kind of a tacked on tax for it. You don't actually need any other Geo units for her, they could have made her create ammo within her kit and it would be the same thing almost. When I say she ignores her element, it's like she doesn't really care to synergize with any other Geo buffs except maybe resonance with Zhongli or Albedo I guess but only because they don't conflict. She works as a sub DPS for Noelle too I guess just because the shards are useless otherwise so she can just shotgun and swap off. She just feels weird as the first Geo in so long because she doesn't really match, she CAN play with some of them but most of the time, she'd rather just ignore all the Geo not named Zhongli.

[@Axterix13]

Eh, Gorou isn't a geo buffer, though. He's a def+geo buffer. And that was a big mistake in his design. And really, only three geos want him: Itto, Noelle, and Albedo. Ning, Yun Jin, Zhongli, and Navia all don't care if they have him or not, or just don't want him. Meanwhile, Itto and Noelle don't play nice together, because both want to to hog on the on-field time. And Albedo? He's a 4th slot character, a character used not because you really care about what he brings to the table, but because there really isn't a worthwhile option to use in that slot. He's a pre-Ganyu DPS, which means he's subpar, and the moment we get a post Ganyu off-field geo five star DPS, he's effectively done. I have him, I like him, but that is the reality. And again, I'm not seeing it. Geo is not defined by "mono-geo only". That's just Gorou, since he wants three geos on the team to actually buff geo. For the rest, every geo DPS wants Zhongli, because geo resonance is good but needs you to be shielded to benefit, and he gives -20% resists for an element not covered by VV, and what, you're going to use Albedo? Meanwhile, Yun Jin wants to play with others. Archiac Petra wants geo to play with others. Navia wants to play with others. Crystalize wants you to play with others. Gorou is an exception, not the norm. Gorou, basically, is bad for Geo's design space.

[@sivasankars808]

​​@@mismismismwhat about geo mc, ninguang Navia synergy with geo characters- zhongli, albedo, Noelle, ninguang, geo mc, you can also work with yunjin Itto- gorou, albedo, maybe zhongli(but every one want replacement in place of him)

[@MakuMaku-p3w]

Thats actually way way better. imagine waiting for 2 years for a new geo to be another mono geo team, i mean lol. Navia at least works with Zhongli, Albedo and Ning while also being good with characters like Bennett, Xianling, furina, Fischl, Yae, etc. @@mismismism

[@v0nyqn928]

I didn’t understand the point with the graph of damage versus time - the amount of time saved for frontload damage does not decrease if you simply increase the enemy’s HP. The time may decrease, depending on how effectively you manage to “fit” your damage into the mob’s HP. This is true even for a mob with relatively low HP. So I didn’t understand what zajef wanted to say. Is this a function interpolation topic? xd

[@namohoai5846]

I think simply look it this way. You have 100hp boss, frontload char can set up for 5 second then bum 100hp. Sustain char need set up for 5s then begin to deal 30 30 30 30 which take 2s each then it is 13second total. But what if you have a boss that have 120hp. Frontload need to have another 5s to setup which take them around 10 to 11 second to kill the boss because they need 2 rotations. The sustain still need 13second like before. I think this is what he meant

[@JMCxNeo1225214]

Abyss requires Pantheon, not Jinx.

[@jui4041]

geo construct is easy to destroy, and then we compare it to travelers flower which are indestructible

[@ShmakOFFNIK]

If only they released a character for the game through "Geo Objects" =)

[@sudheerm4071]

1.5× recommend speed

[@musicaddict9058]

We really need an off field geo applier that doesn't depend on constructs to apply geo. Currently playing navia teams feels like shit, because once your construct breaks, your team isn't functioning properly anymore, so you end up removing geo unit and going with bennett, XL, furina, but in that team you can just use klee or linney and it will be better. Chiori has to be a normal geo subdps without constructs, or navia stays kinda meh

[@moonsblossom]

Albedo construction is not that bad if you know how where to put it. Even if it breaks, you can put it again bc of his cd of 4s

[@yoda5358]

klee better than navia? im curious, seems like a stretch atleast lyney is feasible

[@musicaddict9058]

​@@yoda5358In that specific team klee is actually very very good. Navia can do better cuz of the frontloaded damage, but klee version does have higher dps overall.

[@musicaddict9058]

​@@moonsblossomYeah, albedo is the best option rn, but that says a lot about the state of geo off fielders rn

[@nikumilotic1333]

Klee and lyney has better dmg on paper Actually practically playing and getting that dmg out is hard which is not in case of navia ​@@musicaddict9058

[@jm52995]

She hits like a truck