Ne vs Ni with Shannon Welch | Type Talks E22

Shannon Welch (ENFP) and I discuss the differences between Ne and Ni.
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Hi there! I'm Joyce, a certified MBTI® Master Practitioner, Enneagram Coach, Jungian Typology Expert, Master NLP Practitioner, and Gallup® CliftonStrengths Coach.
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Shannon's Ne Avalanche:
“-Dario Nardi's brain scans-
Yes yes what was so interesting about that is they ultimately work the same way but one is faster - identifies those patterns rapid fire - and the other is slower, like in a meditation state. Really deeply synthesizes those connections.
And it seems Ni can get in a natural flow state engaging its intuition while for Ne we don’t have a natural flow state. We have to develop it through some kind of repetitive skill or hobby for long periods of time. It’s painful and difficult. But it does finally put us in some kind of a direction, which is more natural for Ni.
Experiential learning and Ne
Yeah I think experiential learning is so important for Ne users because it’s an extroverted function and it needs to see these metaphysical concepts play out outside themselves, in their face, and then get a Di “signature” of the experience imprinted in them.
ENxP’s in particular....This is incredibly important because Ne doesn’t operate or exist in linear time unlike Ni that’s specifically always thinking about the pathway to a future result, and our auxiliary Di also isn’t an extroverted or socially-oriented thing that reacts in live extroverted time. Our sensory awareness is low and our De tribe function is also low, unlike NJ’s who always have it in the first or second position that gives them more tribe/worldly context and assistance.
So we need to have a more direct, manual experience to make up for that and create all the time and context that we’re missing.
It’s not like Se where we notice and compare sensory things and get stimulated moving our bodies or objects through lived challenges. I mean I could just be standing in a room while people have a conversation that happens to be related to a pattern I was thinking about and then I go “holy smokes I get what that means now in the context of reality.”
It’s less about the doing itself and more about what thoughts I connect to the experience.
5 Element Acupuncture and Functions
Si: Human Order
Ni: Natural Order
Se: Human Chaos
Ne: Natural Chaos
Ni-Se is a Feather
There was a specific reason that I used the image of a feather as my Ni analogy. “Hope is the thing with feathers that perches in the soul - and sings the tunes without the words - and never stops at all.” - Emily Dickinson. Sadness/Grief - Hope/Higher Inspiration Lost in shallow human disconnection....Finds and marks the path to higher virtue of love in herself and the universe that can’t be taken."
#Ni #vs #Ne

[@johnknight9150]

You keep giving a nervous self-deprecating laugh after making a statement, Joyce. Your observations are strong, valid, and succinct. You should own them and feel proud and confident -- you have more than merited such an award and are good at what you do.

[@JoyceMeng22]

I appreciate the encouragement, John! My nerves still get the better of me from time to time, but I'm slowly learning to be more confident as I speak. Thank you for noticing.

[@johnknight9150]

@@JoyceMeng22 Frank James does something similar quite a lot. Is this an INFJ thing?

[@PowerRedBullTypology]

Te seeks the shortest route between an starting point and an objective Ne seeks the shortest route to connect one concept to another one. That's why it helps to think of things as "hacking", since hacking is finding the shortcut too. Te is logical outsmarting, Ne is basically abstract outsmarting. Ni knows the long route and Ne knows the shortcuts between one point and the other, quite regularly in a somewhat controversial manner that excites them. The extroverted functions seem to like challenges more than the introverted ones. The introverted ones are slower and take the saver long road.

[@JoyceMeng22]

Yes!! Fantastic insights as always. :) Extroverted functions prefer to shortcut as you said. I refer to Fe as shortcut-ing a sense of identity by being a social chameleon.

[@PowerRedBullTypology]

@Mr X INTP

[@PowerRedBullTypology]

@Mr X and thanks! It could be related to enneagram 6, but I have hardly any knowledge about enneagram

[@icanrelate]

1 of my friends told me before that I'm always looking for shortcuts lol now I know why. I'm a Te dom. I wonder what type she is. She picks something and sticks with it then expands from there. She's had her stuff together since she was in her 20s. She learned from her mother's mistakes. Thanks for sharing your insights.

[@PowerRedBullTypology]

@@icanrelate That makes sense (about you). I am not sure which type she is based on these few things you said about her

[@sandradibiaso7316]

Ne expands ideas. Ni narrows down ideas.

[@driftingpaperboat]

"Si: human order Ni: nature order Se: human chaos Ne: nature chaos" 😲😲😲 I'd love an elaboration on this!!

[@keithparker1346]

As if humans are not part of nature

[@vincent.mazkett187]

Ni is a tortoise (slow) because of Se Ne is a bunny (faster) because of Si is already "Organized"

[@DiegoBR]

dont make sense. All in really is already "organized". Or are all the characteristics of things completely disjointed? Ni works like a filter. Ne is just find something that at last have some connection. Just because something shares some similarity with another doesn't mean there is a causal relationship between them and not all options lead to the same destination.

[@brain0nfire]

Ni - spiral in Ne - spiral out

[@JoyceMeng22]

Yep! Right on, Sem. 😃

[@friendlyanomaly6109]

Keep Going!

[@umeshkulkarni9687]

Thanks to both of you for this informative discussion on Ni-Ne bringing further clarity to me. 🙏❤ISFP

[@s.u.5285]

in a fast pace society i really dread having Ni and how it works so slowly.

[@JoyceMeng22]

I feel you! Having Ni can be hard in a society that values immediacy and speed of response.

[@cclarksonable]

NE looks chaotic to NI users

[@keithparker1346]

It's chaotic to NE users

[@centuryflower]

I think it would be worthwhile for understanding Ni and Ne to go back and look at what Dario Nardi has described. Ne uses “Christmas tree lights” patterns when processing information, meaning it is run through everything the Ne person already knows to find connections and Ni, when with low stimulus, will use their whole brain at once (not Christmas tree) to solve a problem. As always, I hope the idea that all functions are different but equal will come across.

[@icanrelate]

Me talking to my grandmother: Oh wow, are those new curtains? Grandma: I've had those for 3 years. You never notice anything.

[@malikyo0]

I felt you explored the differences with Ne and Ni well

[@JoyceMeng22]

Thank you, @malikyo0 💜!!

[@conkers5875]

Pinging is our natural flow state, warp speed 💫💜

[@MylezNevison]

So Ni is basically like J (judging) manifested in the form of intuition, and Ne is like P (Peceiving) manifested in the form of intuition... Now it makes sense why every personality with a J in their cognitive stack never has Ne in their top 2 dominant functions (& vice versa; every personality with a P never has Ni their top 2 dominant functions). Once one is a Perceiver (or as l like to call them, "Subjective thinkers" who like to see things as mostly subjective with many possibilities) they automatically can't have Ni as a dominant function... Similarly, once one is a Judger (an Objective thinker who likes to boil down all subjective possibilities into one Objective reality/truth), they can't have Ne as a dominant function... It seems like Perceiving and Judging are intrinsically entangled/linked to Ni and Ne (particularly for the intuitive xNxx types). If my summation is true, that means Ni is essentially Objective Intuition, and Ne is Subjective Intuition.

[@NicStride]

Thanks for complimenting my attention span. Only managed to watch over 40 mins because it's good content!

[@JoyceMeng22]

NIC!! :') THAT'S SO KIND

[@NicStride]

@@JoyceMeng22 NO IT'S HONEST! :)

[@bradleyoleksyn8883]

Great job girls from an a western Aussie INFP.

[@stevedavenport1202]

Great description of Ne vs Ni

[@persephone6896]

Very good exploration of how the two work . Now I understand myself better and my place so far as the exact points we differ in, given that I have that NI reference

[@sori6196]

i have a question. Ne seems like the perfect function for 'play' and as someone who has Ni, I'm wondering, how can ppl with Ni be more playful and engage in more play?

[@keithparker1346]

I think that applies to every adult tbh. My suggestion is to try new things not to be good at them or be competitive but to enjoy them it simply seems what they are like

[@ac-jn1iq]

This confirmed I am not an extroverted intuitive.

[@TheBittenBullet]

"Ne = extrapolation; Ni = synthesis" Would that in include their counterparts? Ne = extrapolation/interpolation; Ni = synthesis/analysis?

[@tomwright9904]

I've heard people say Ne means creative connection

[@neugroove6172]

Where can one find the Dario Nardi talk on Ne? I'm super curious to learn more about how to create our own flow state.

[@stevedavenport1202]

"It is what it is" is something I have observed coming from the mouths of Se users. In some ways it is a good thing since so much around us can't be changed, so why waste valuable time and energy trying? On the other hand, there are some situations which annoy us and are arbitrary social constructs that can be changed with some effort but the Se users just "let it be" since they perceive the situation as immutable...or so I think 😀

[@keithparker1346]

As an INFP with NE "it is what it is" is a terrible idea as there are always possibilities

[@conkers5875]

I do positive procrastination 🌼 and rename a routine as a pattern. Kinda trying to outsmart myself 😆😎

[@Dgn404]

I love my aux Ne. It is the thing that makes me funny and interesting. Brilliance in a flash.

[@conkers5875]

Kaleidoscope and feather maybe 🤔 lovin it. Chaos order fly spider ☀️

[@jessenoreligionno5731]

This video is an INTJ drool session.

[@LumiereLight-y4s]

ne come off as a good at lying function to me. maybe im projecting as i have two enfp parents

[@kaisfp]

32:58 I thought it's the opposite. To me (as an Ne-blind ISFP) it can be hard enough to just understand some relatively more complex Ti system (for example a type system that I never read about before (other than that specific type system's name)), that can be hard enough, but if I get an Ne talking style explanation of that system (from an ENTP or an INTP), then there is a high chance that I won't understand a big chunks of that explanation, simply because when I'm listening to that Ne-talk-style explanation, there is just too many words (to my Ne-blind brain at least). The other big problem can occur for me is the vast amount of synonyms that ne users tend to use in their Ne-talk-style explanations. To my brain, when trying to understand a relatively difficult concept, synonyms get very distracting, because now that the Ne user said that synonym I have a new thought in my mind in paralell while still trying to listening to his/her explanation, and that thought is usually something like this: "Did he/she really meant 100% precisely the same thing with that synonym and he/she just talking in his/her wide-vocabulary-Ne-talk-style, or maybe he/she meant a slightly different thing with that synonym, but he/she is unaware of that slight difference, because he/she considers that word he/she used as a 100% precisely same meaning synonym?"

[@dogdonut3]

How is ne seeing divergent things and "connecting" them into one thing different from ni "distillation" of several things into one thing? That sounds pretty much the same.

[@icanrelate]

As a child I wondered why some kids thought they were better than the others. I didn't see a difference other than them being snobby. Is that Ni?

[@conkers5875]

In breath and out breath 💫

[@tomasg9795]

Joyce I'm doubtful that your type is FF NiTi SCPB. Thing is that you are consistently applying emocional pressure towards positivity some times at the cost of ti. So I think that your type is FM NiTi SCPB.

[@JoyceMeng22]

You're implying I could be M-Fe right? It's possible. One of my close friends thinks so too. I'm planning to have a call with Dave and Shan to ask about it one day =]

[@mcgil8891]

Where can I test myself for this type?

[@tomasg9795]

@@mcgil8891 You can get theory from here kzbin.info

[@tomasg9795]

@@mcgil8891 there is also a facebook group " unofficial objective personality study group "

[@mcgil8891]

@@tomasg9795 thanks!

[@Jason-ut8iu]

NE feels like your brain wants to drink the entire universe in both the current and all future variations. It feels like the auditory system where the input stream is omni-directional. It feels like your mind is exploding outward in both space and time to touch what can be sensed and to attempt to predict all iterations of what can happen.

[@Jason-ut8iu]

Huge fan of Joyce Meng's channel. Going through and watching all videos from the first up through the last (and marking Like on everyone single one). Good Job!

[@Jason-ut8iu]

Also, INFJ and INTJ sometimes feel more like predators in the sense that they lock on to a future and make it happen through action where NE users like INTPs feel a little bit more like prey in that they sense in order to detect and avoid without filtering towards a goal but filtering towards detection. You will often see an INTJ lock on to a future outcome he wants and become the person he needs to be now in order to impose his will on the present and make his future predictions become the new reality he imagined was possible. Whereas, you will often see an INTP off to the side picking a single blade of grass (which seems entirely unrelated to the current goal) because he is attempting to use his perception of future outcomes combined with the butterfly effect of causal connections to expend the least amount of effort and achieve some future state. INTPs will do things that seem unrelated to a goal when relating to other people if they feel the action increases the probability that the environment as whole will be probabilistically more likely to arrive at a given outcome without as much effort on their part. (Other times just seeing clearly the universe of possibilities is the objective and the action feels soul crushingly prescriptive..)

[@conkers5875]

Attention spans aeons when it's wide and deep enough 💫🧘🌼

[@conkers5875]

Gestalt

[@Enigma96969]

You know that girl who talks to much 😏 lol jk