Hololive Marine discusses learning English, practices with chat, gets rickrolled

[@sdarkpaladin]

2:48 "Kane no Muda" Waste of Money, not Time. Just thought I'd point it out in case. Also, as someone who is learning Japanese. I think learning in class helps if its an actual class and has a teacher to help you with questions. You don't pay for the lesson, but for the opportunity to ask the teacher what is the proper way to say things. Everything else is contact with the language. IMHO.

[@Nekomikuri]

ah you're right. On my left monitor I had photoshop open where I edited that superchat, and on the other monitor I was editing the video. Since I had just read the SC the "waste of time" was fresh in my head and I probably confused them

[@abukhari3636]

@@Nekomikuri No need to explain urself, mate. We all make mistakes 👍❤️

[@scotcheggable]

Easy mistake to make when you're dealing with the MUDAMUDAMUDAMUDAMUDA

[@MrEncode]

時間の無駄でも同じようなもんだろうな

[@Pfish1000]

I'd also say that no matter your source you will only ever get out what you put in. Years of watching subs for entertainment has given me a mostly useless handful of Japanese words. And with the exception of words learned from Gintama (chinpo, kintama and the like) most are words that are semi frequent basic words like (forgive spelling) itadakimasu, subarashi, sumimasen. Actually I learned sumimasen from James May: Our Man in Japan bc he says it soooooo much. But yeah my Japanese is less than what I'd get from a free online article of 20 useful words to know before visiting Japan. If I watched with the express intent of learning or started from a very young age and not at 18 yeah I'd probably pick more up. But doing that is going to get in the way of watching the content as I sit there trying to put the words to their proper sound. Similarly, people in Spanish classes here in the US often put in no more than is needed to pass the class and forget it soon after because A) they are using it anymore and B) they never cared in the first place. They aren't trying to learn the language, they are trying to pass a test and maybe they retain some bits and pieces of it that they think they forgot. If you want to learn a language and put in the effort then you will get a lot out of however you choose to do so. That said classes will teach you things you will never learn from just interacting with media in the language you are trying to learn. And has the potential to teach you the wrong things, particularly when using movies or anime. People don't talk like normal people in either of those, particularly anime (with some exceptions). As an extreme example, imagine using Rocket Power, Idiocracy, Good Burger, the Bill and Ted movies, and, to help balance it back out, the Marvel movies and James Bond to learn English. You are straight up not going to be able read or write English to any degree (something Marine would find useful) and are going to sound like an idiot from the 90s that speaks in 1-liners.

[@dagon7259]

Technically language lessons aren't useless... They just aren't enough if you want to actually learn the language. You gotta be listening or using it a lot outside of classes to be able to maintain and improve it.

[@Tea-Spin]

Yup, it's useless if you already get a hang of the basic, then you probably better practice it more instead of taking class. But on the level of marine, i think it is really the right move since she's yet to learn the basic.

[@nigrum_angelum6655]

I think this applies to just about any other classes and lessons, for your average joes that is.

[@LemonRush7777]

@@Tea-Spin Pretty much. I remember very well when my english classes got sort of useless around the intermediary level, at least for my objectives (consuming entertainment and casual conversation when going overseas). Sure, my grammar sucks and stuff, but who cares, I can understand people speaking and communicate accurately enough.

[@linnen_elm]

those who say english class aren't useful are either already mastered the basic or born already genius AF lol. im not a smart guy by default, so I can tell with confidence that having a paper based TOEFL score above 600 will help a lot in learning english, it is never useless. I found mein freunds who watch chinese cartoon with english subtitle often suffered to get the meaning of the story, like monogatari series, concrete revolutio or mekakucity actor or other series with similar heavy stories, especially those who hab score bellow 500.

[@jave7318]

Nah the sc was right. Language is learning by heart. Lessons teaches you how to write in proper grammar which is most of the time heartless. Teacher here too. Not being mean btw.

[@KingsGlaive42]

"There's a lot of foreign fans here!" Marine: OOOOOOHHHHHH!!!!

[@wanmel9239]

I doubt you could even imagine it...

[@KingsGlaive42]

@@wanmel9239 I'm not making fun of Marine or anything. Just found it cute how she said, "oh" and started speaking English.

[@Karatys]

Marine: Sexy oversea guys, Mah dog! Wassup?

[@wanmel9239]

@@KingsGlaive42 Oh, no worries man. That wasn't my intention at all. There is a game that is not released yet (Elden Ring), so I'm just memeing about it.

[@KingsGlaive42]

@@wanmel9239 Elden Ring will never come out at this rate.

[@ttchme9816]

Marine : " Overseas sexy guys " Me : I have been summoned, what shall thy ask of me, my master?

[@yohanessena8438]

nothing just give marine your attention($), hearts($), love($) and ofcourse donation. 😂

[@billybonregularjin]

Your name checks out

[@mex_I.M]

My MASTER HAS AWEKENED MEEEE

[@k_tess]

Ayayaya~

[@niiiiniiiiiiiiiiiiii414]

for some reason i read this whole to the Pillar Men theme. Bringing back his masters lol

[@arcielor]

It used to only be "overseas sexy guys" now we sexy ladies get it too

[@theascendantgaming9575]

gender equality

[@catqueensina]

Next step, Overseas Sexy Enbies.

[@ojougiggle4553]

I like when her eyes go up when she's thingking lmao

[@stedeestelle2866]

Observant guy right here lmao

[@rektmoon538]

I do that too lol

[@Zosovy]

I was about to write the same thing, hah. That's a very nice expression, indeed.

[@moores4415]

I thought everyone does that

[@Wolfy1012]

Thought the same thing.

[@xAznSkyxx]

Marine: "I already paid 1000$" Teacher: "Superchat arigatou"

[@xDewritos]

I've never paid for language learning classes, are they really that expensive? I guess $1000 USD is reasonable if the classes extend for more than one year which I doubt. Feel like that's a lot of money to just learn the basics, considering that learning a language it's mostly about your own effort and dedication.

[@kaajjaak]

@@xDewritos actually the class being expensive is okay because it will make you work harder since you spent so much money on it

[@ShadowKidElite]

@@kaajjaak Lol

[@Reydotcom]

@@xDewritos Well depends if it's a personal tutor that will be available whenever Marine is available. Remember her schedule is constantly changing so the teacher has to deal with that. There's not many teachers that will do that. Law of supply and demand kicks in. Teachers low in supply and high in demand = price goes way up.

[@methos4866]

Hopefully it's worth the money. If it's a class with multiple people than that sounds a tad expensive. I think she'd have more benefit with one on one tutoring. Pronunciation is the hardest part to learn properly in my opinion. My pronunciation in English after almost a decade is still flawed in some parts.

[@zaine4516]

“Mom can we have a french pirate?” “But we have a french pirate at home” French pirate at home: 1:15

[@azutsukimiya]

I imagine Marine making a southerly turn and landing at New Caledonia on one of her journeys and picking up a bit of French there

[@pigura]

It wont help her

[@boranblok]

I always have the impression French is easier to speak for Japanese people than English. Now my french isn't exactly stellar, but I found her rather understandable in that part. I am just talking about the accent by the way. I find Japanese people with lots of English knowledge rather hard to understand because of the heavy accent they usually have.

[@pigura]

It's the most easiest way to speak french but the word she say are the most easiest way to speak the basics

[@acwano]

@@boranblok Yeah french is way easier to pronounce for them for some reason. But its probably harder to learn.

[@Nekomikuri]

As a translator (and one who messed up payed/paid, oops) you can take my opinion with a grain of salt, but here's my thoughts about learning a new language. You all might remember, but I used to make Japanese flashcards for my videos. I've stopped that because I started teaching Japanese, at first on my own discord server discord.gg/r5a5HtE , and now temporarily on a TL team discord I created (Aonahara.) I think one of the common ideas amongst language learning is that "total immersion is the way to go". Things like MIA, "sentence mining," etc seem to be often encouraged. However, I think it's detrimental somewhat to new learners to actually immerse yourself fully. I've seen it happen hundreds of times where people try picking up a light novel / manga with minimal Japanese knowledge, have to jisho every other word, get burned out, and either give up or don't really retain anything. When you aren't really aware of basic grammar, you're going to be so overloaded with information it's rather pointless. This is why I personally think teachers / actual classes are helpful, at least while you're starting. Textbooks have built-in stories that are tailored to the exact level the reader is at; teachers can help set pronunciation straight, etc. Basically, until you get to around what Marine said (middle school level) I don't think immersion is 100% the best idea. And lastly, everyone has different ways of language learning. Some people like mnemorics; I hate them with a passion as I feel it's memorizing extra things when you could just memorize the word. But hey, it works for some. Some might want to learn by themselves; others might really like the classes. So I think, when giving advice to VTubers or others about how to learn English, we should keep these things in mind. I noticed a few comments in her chat like "drop language classes" that, although I understand people are trying to helpful, I don't agree is the best advice. But that's just my opinion

[@SteadFast411]

Fantastic advice!!

[@zornor]

Totally agree with language classes to *at the very least* build a good foundation. I picked Japanese as an elective totally unrelated to my major and don't regret it. It was especially helpful since I have shitty self-discipline, plus I got feedback on my speaking/writing. I also agree that everyone learns differently, however.

[@codyscottmac]

I really don't understand why that person in chat said classes are a waste of time. Having someone there to speak with and point things out to you seems so helpful. And like you said, if I ever tried to do the full immersion thing I would ABSOLUTELY get burnt out real fast.

[@TheHatai]

In my experience it's all about finding good resources at the beginning; for some it's classes/tutoring, for others just good self-study guides/books/websites/programs. I took one class of elementary Japanese in university and learned almost nothing, then later found some good guides and resources online and started learning by myself, and now after 3½ years I'm nearly fluent. Immersion is only helpful after you get over the initial hump of learning the basics, and the biggest issue is finding an efficient way to learn those that works for you (and staying motivated to study daily).

[@stevensiegert]

I have some concerns when it comes to English classes in Japan. In most Japanese schools it seems like they tend to be very theoretically, which lastly results in a inability to speak English in proper sentences. So you gone through all this for basically nothing. Hopefully this will not be the case for her.

[@clemz110]

Maringlish shall be gone but for now it's still a blessing

[@Nekomikuri]

Pekonglish will have to do

[@user-jh3kz7dp2z]

she did say she stopped taking english classes though

[@caiustox]

Friendship ended with Subanglish & Maringlish, now Pekonglish is my best friend.

[@RKG0006]

Ogey

[@jezzmaninjapan]

Marine's English was already perfect the day she learned how to pronounce: "Do you want my bathwater?"

[@azutsukimiya]

Technically language classes are NOT a waste of money. If I didn't attend a Japanese class despite self-teaching myself for about 7 years before that, I wouldn't learn the basics of Japanese grammar. After 3 years of building a stable foundation, I passed N3, N2, N1 consecutively.

[@SteadFast411]

Agreed, Calli herself states her Japanese is weird in a very similar way. And, whilst Senchou is in a different position than Calli and yourself (as in, beyond small broken English snippets she knows none of the language), it's worth noting second languages are learnt through so many different ways that, who is to say Kiara's approach of learning through interaction on stream would be effective for Marine? She won't know until she gives the lessons a try, and move forwards from there.

[@ttchme9816]

@@SteadFast411 I'd say that it's a pretty good start but in the end I still agree with kiara ( and what most language teachers agree with ) input is better than learning a few theories. As I have similarly learned English through just watching KZbinrs that speak English. English have the rules of grammar but isn't bound by it, for one will have so many different exceptions in a sentence that it basically just confuse you alot if you apply these rules every time you try to make a sentence. Language is a natural thing that is extremely difficult to be taught but not that difficult to actually understand, with the foundation of the language it's only the matter of time and experience about when you will get fluent. Language lessons didn't work for me, as it didn't for many others whom I know of, just saying.

[@Karsh.]

I honestly think you might just be particularly unfit for learning new languages (or Japanese in particular) if that's really the case. Unless maybe that "self-teaching" went only as far as you casually watching anime or smth. And even then, you might've been able to pick up the basics of the grammar just like that anyway...

[@Nekomikuri]

I decided to pin a comment addressing this, because honestly I saw a few comments regarding language learning in her chat that I did not really agree with, and I felt would not really be that helpful to Marine.

[@Ammothief41]

Exactly and awesome job. Spanish is a requirement where I work and some years ago the language training program was restructured to reduce cost. It went from actual lessons to something akin to duolingo so now the trainees are coming out of training with basically the level of a parrot.

[@rvmp2ka]

Comments: Maringlish is no more The video: *"I'm destroy interval, DESTROY TONE."*

[@atree86]

Marine: I'm destroy sans

[@SukacitaYeremia]

Sounds like Robert Oppaiheimer

[@shadowman7307]

I'm destroy, thank you forever.

[@seangill2522]

As soon as she said destroy tone I was like omg she's trying to say tone deaf

[@yumri4]

well interval and tone are kinda important in English. Just what they are used for is different. It also depends on where you are for how fast or slow the interval between words is expected to be. What they mean depends on who, where, when, and what you are talking about. The word doesn't change meaning nor does it change the word but the implied meaning instead of the explicit meaning. It also has to do with which dialect of English you learn. I know of 10 different ones. North UK, South UK, North middle US, North Eastern US, South Eastern US, Western US, Austrian, Indian international business, Indian India business. Then you have the mixes of English and another language. Basically all of them that want to have international trade as English is the international business language.

[@Eresh69]

The way she looks up and her eyes widen when she's thinking is adorable

[@oncesanora]

Marine's eagerness and willingness to learn English has reinvigorated my drive to learn Japanese. Seriously. Listening to her Maringlish caused me to pull out my genki books again after a long holiday hiatus.

[@CronusAkuma]

seieki

[@raccoonchild]

@@CronusAkuma Zenritsusen

[@spagetter]

Wish you a smooth sailing!

[@otame4771]

I like how you always zoom in to their faces at the right time in most of your videos...

[@TheDorianTube]

I don't remember in which channel (Some KZbinr like Abroad in Japan), I saw the Eng Textbook they use in JPN schools. It was like reading one of those wacky T-Shirts ''Your friendo are the besto when together forever'' LOL. At the same time tho, Coco once showed some College, or high end High School, questionnaire and it was extremely difficult. To a point of her not even understanding some of the questions LOL

[@ItsCassius]

In Japan, they have what's called 'Decoration English'. In other words, they use English to make the product look of higher quality or more enticing. As most Japanese can't read it, and they make up 97% of the population, terrible English often makes it to market without any sort of quality assurance or second opinion. Same goes for education. Textbooks are often written by Japanese people who've learned English, but the rules of the English language are often contradictory and situational, so errors are bound to show up in these books. As for what Coco said, I believe she was referring to the test you have to take to be granted citizenship or something. As 'fluent' as Coco is at speaking English, the language has many, many rare and unique words even natives seldom hear or know the definition of, so I wonder if it's like that or just awkwardly-placed words she's never seen before.

[@nore5888]

@@ItsCassius But Coco is American herself

[@tjl9458]

@@nore5888 Still there's English language words that even English speakers can stumble over. For example, look at the Vocabulary section of the American SATs. Another example, consider Ina's recent Spice & Wolf read-along. There were a few words even in the first chapter she had a hard time pronouncing and I think at times didn't really know what the word was.

[@Redmanticore]

@@tjl9458 the English "spelling bee championships". in my finnish language those are completely unneeded because language is exactly literally written, as it is said. common in uralic language family. we also often pronounce foreign names naturally right because of that. except english names, of course.

[@tenkorochi]

I think Marine has the right idea taking classes at least for now. There is no point in watching english movies and dramas if your only understanding of the lenguage is Touhou words and references lmao Learning the basics from a teacher will help her a lot, I'm sure of it.

[@Fran.454]

It's kinda funny that the two people shown in the clip telling Marine not to take classes are both self-taught. Sure it worked for them but not everyone can just do it by themselves without any guidance. Sometimes you just need a little help to keep you on track.

[@NoxSuperNova]

It not useless but It's a waste of money, you can just learn the basics in internet, once you learn that just watch videos in english, play video games, read stuff in english and you will improve gradually and without much effort. There a lot of super useful channels on youtube that teach you english and the information is a lot more complete than any school will teach you. Also you can learn at your own pace.

[@jurbon]

As any weeb can say, only watching anime with subs for years you only pick some incoherent vocabulary.

[@billybonregularjin]

@@NoxSuperNova depends on how you learn, sometimes spending the money and knowing it’s a sunk cost motivates you but to your point yes that’s how I’m learning Japanese. Basics and leads on vocab on Duolingo. Grammar online - puni puni Japan. Now when I watch streams or anime I can somewhat get the basics or hear the words I’ve been learning. It’s also a little easier to ask yourself questions about the language which you can go to jisho to help and use translation tools to spruce out words from full sentences to look up. Not as simple for me to just keep watching shows to learn. Personally have to put in the leg work especially on jisho

[@NoxSuperNova]

@@billybonregularjin I heard Duolingo is quite bad for learning Japanese. How is it for you?

[@Nevergonnagiveyouupnevergonnaa]

Only did one line this time. Will SC periodically and do a whole verse once she doesn't stumble as much on the pronunciation.

[@KingJH0510]

Yo the man himself

[@atree86]

The MAN, the MYTH, the LEGEND, Never gonna give you up, Never gonna let you down-san

[@CTStyles31]

Absolute madlad

[@kiyoshi5430]

What a great lad

[@PyroShield793]

When you zoom in on their faces stretched out, it gets me everytime _wheezing intensifies_

[@abdfiqhi]

English language and literature student here. Honestly I think english class is also important to learn about the basic and grammar. Then you can improve and enrich your vocabulary by watching english movies and tv series or by listening to english music. Welp I hope Marine's english would improve soon!

[@fabinagl7601]

It’s important up to a point but then not necessary anymore. At least that’s how it was for me. I learned it mostly trough listening on KZbin

[@pimpmasterjake7435]

I popped into this stream earlier and she was hitting some CRAZY high notes on a song I can't remember the name of. Props to Senchou, she's got some pipes

[@rufocs686]

I remember the song, it's a Vocaloid one sung by Rin Kagamine. Sadly I don't remember the name, but iirc it's about some kind of devilish/demonic possession or vengeance of some sort. I was also amazed at senchou's high notes.

[@burnoutcat2387]

I'm pretty sure she did some singing before she became a vtuber (can't tell more, the "fOrBiDdEn KnOwLeDgE?" comments would go crazy...)

[@RazzySensei]

Aww. So cute to see the Holo Girls taking strides to really improve their overseas viewers watching comfort. First Shuba, and now Marine!

[@TheKyrix82]

Korone had them both beat, but it is nice to be able to pick out parts of her stream BEFORE they're subtitled

[@Tchxznu_DD]

this is how dedicated marine is she wants to learn english so she can understand and interact with us she really loves overseas sexy guys and ladies THIS IS WHY I LOVE MARINE

[@burnoutcat2387]

Kanata basically comfirmed that Marine was talking about us *all the time* even *offstream*

[@habialtx3]

@@burnoutcat2387 really? can I ask where the source

[@__aceofspades]

I also think a lot of the Japanese talent are realizing that speaking only Japanese will set them back. Look at the translated clip channels, routinely 100k-500k per clip. Look at the success of the EN talent, Gura has the most subs of anyone and the rest of them are still at the top, they blew past long time JP talent. I wouldnt be surprised if Hololive told them they would pay for half the cost of English lessons, because the personalities are good for the JP talent, but they need English to continue to grow sub counts.

[@chaos2inferno]

@@__aceofspades It kinda depends. Learning some English is obviously good for channel growth and views, but not necessarily so for super chats, which is where most of their income comes from. Having a dedicated fanbase is what gives you big SC numbers, and trying too hard to appeal to foreign viewers on a surface level might get in the way of building up an enthusiastic fanbase at home.

[@stephenvargas5806]

@@__aceofspades Being able to provide some English subtitles or engaging a little with the English audience has always been beneficial to Vtubers in general viewership wise. Even back so far as the Kizuna Ai days fan translations gave the OG Vtubers a nice bump in viewership numbers but as time went on fans could no longer dedicate time to translating for them so the lost overseas momentum. While translating for a 10 min video is different than multi hour streams the principal still applies. Foreigners want to consume Japanese media, making a effort to make overseas audiences feel included is beneficial for them. I think Japanese media in general is starting to wake up to that concept, since I’ve been noticing more Japanese outreach recently.

[@tako5333]

I haven't been paying attention to senchou's eyes it's really pretty

[@TheKyrix82]

She's up there in the 'prettiest eyes in Hololive' category with Miko and Polka

[@viktor330]

@@TheKyrix82 What about Ollie?

[@TeaCeeSee]

Damn that french pronounciation is actually not that bad.

[@burnoutcat2387]

She's pretty good with her R's yeah, I'm impressed

[@cloudwalker9572]

I had the funny thought that she probably learned to say it well in french to pick girls/boys up. xD

[@DaimonAnimations]

Latin words usually have the same range of word pronunciation like Japanese, this is why Japanese people have an easier time speaking Spanish, Italian or French.

[@burnoutcat2387]

@@DaimonAnimations pretty sure there are similarities in how some tenses work

[@CBRN-115]

@@DaimonAnimations very interesting

[@principalflame5199]

All the VTubers doing their best to learn English makes me wish I could teach them grammar- I feel like teaching them the basic subject->verb->predicate sentence skeleton would give them a good framework for creating their own sentences. It's always harder to encode your own language than it is to decode someone else's

[@Lazuardinho]

From my personal experience. I attended English class to understand language structure and grammar. And I used video games, movies, and internet to polish it and expand my vocabulary. If the teacher is good, it is never useless.

[@RadMatter_]

english classes are not a waste of money, different people just learn at different speeds, she should still watch stuff in english though, that does help a lot

[@edmonddantes2745]

Exposing yourself to multiple venues by which you can learn a new language is the best method. I definitely think lessons are valuable, it's just another way to strengthen your skills.

[@uteriel282]

reading and writing to study a subject is actualy the worst form of learning as the human brain has a hard time storing information in text form only. sound and sight individualy are somewhat better but still not enough to reliably retain information. the most efficient way to learn is through constant exposure using all senses over an extended period of time. watching foreign tv/movies with subtitles and interacting with people in a foreign language are far more effective in learning that language than looking at a textbook for years on end.

[@RadMatter_]

@@uteriel282 thats why I said to do both

[@ramsesmarco]

Classes is for begining ,that sc was wrong few ppl can undertand a new lenguague whit only reading and listening The common way,and that the way i learn english,is start with classes(with low quantity of student) and then when u got the base( more comom verbs anf word) its time to watch some streams or movies only in english

[@edmonddantes2745]

@@ramsesmarco for sure man, classes are good for starting out, other sources help you out later on. Keep working hard, youre doing great!

[@elitefdc2171]

Japanese Pirate trying to learn English being taught by French teacher

[@taranchura2061]

" Bounjour Overseas Sexy Guys and Ladies" i ll be dead if she say that xD lol

[@burnoutcat2387]

*"Bonjour gars et filles sexy d'outre mer !"* would make me melt

[@Papahelghast]

We all learn and retain knowledge by doing something over and over again, but the way in which each person does it is different. So whatever method Marine uses to learn English, in the end it is up to her DETERMINATION.

[@HeshTatu]

marine: never gona give you up chat goes brrr

[@MrElbowsmash]

"Gaggu" Our pirate captain can't be this cute

[@spawn9129]

My heart

[@raccoonchild]

Gyagu

[@alansmithee1412]

I love that her go to "waiting for an answer" song is apparently World End. Her taste is legit too good.

[@Enyoiyourself]

"I paid 1k" And any one of us would've have give Marine classes for free lol.

[@sena167]

I'm sure she is fine

[@HarshRajAlwaysfree]

You will need to understand Japanese for that

[@elliot_rat]

woolootame

[@gutsdw]

The guy who sent the “never gonna give you up” donation is a legend

[@katsuwen]

Its was his username I tried its once with subaru-chan or haachaamaa..

[@bakazura2442]

He stands along with eatingmiketysonsass and bigchungus... together they make the big three

[@noraiou]

She learned English pretty fast didn't she.. Soon, I can feel she'll be so good at English in a couple of days

[@kelele]

Wow imagine a Marine who speak/understand English without translation. It's like setting sail into the new world. Us fans need to give her to determination to persevere

[@LuckyTyches]

Even with broken english Marine is so funny

[@Chromwel-A]

I almost thought she was gonna say "fuck", but apparently "fifteen", lmao.

[@Giggly_Puff]

I feel like Pekora when she had her 1st collab with Moona. This is gold.

[@randomscroller9347]

0:12 The way she glances up when trying to remember words is just so.. human

[@shadowtrooper262]

She knows a pinch of French? Very good for someone speaking the country of love.

[@sherlocksvp5537]

It was very wholesome watching the effort. Sincerely made me smile watching

[@RKG0006]

Marine : do re mi fa so la ti My brain : *newlands law of octaves*

[@MrPF]

I learned all that I know about english because of video games, back during the time of the ps2 and before that, there wasn't any dubbing for my language, it's actually a really good way to force yourself to learn a foreign language I could probably have taught myself japanese this way, at least how to read it

[@Drake_Grazer]

Being rickrolled is a requirement when learning English.

[@Fuzunga]

If taking classes is so unhelpful, how come I never learned Japanese from my years of watching anime?

[@stiimuli]

Its adorable when she looks up trying to think

[@rasengdori13]

wtf was that terrible advice by “former English teacher”???

[@Gsyking]

I mean it’s half true, half of the lessons are kind of a waste of time. Sure you learn basic grammar and stuff but most of it goes out the other ear for a lot of students. Drama and movies are pretty good for learning (I understand it doesn’t work for everyone) I don’t bother learning Japanese vividly but watching anime made it so sometimes I understand what a Japanese sentence’s basic message is.

[@micahbruce4547]

Man, i really enjoyed watching that! Im trying to teach myself Japanese and it was really nice to see someone put in the effort to understand my first language and in a weird way makes me want to be able to communicate with others in Japanese more.

[@-Raylight]

Never thought we're going to get rickroll'd by Senchou today lol Nooo, we'll lose Maringlish of she's learning properly xD Can confirm I watched a lot of foreign movies and played english games to learn English. Ofc, you still have to understand the basic

[@quackerz2125]

Marine is a blessing to us all I hope her classes go well

[@ojougiggle4553]

Another never gonna give you up , never gonna let you down-san

[@linearskillzz]

The most effective way to learn is doing it in a way that you enjoy and motivates you. Blanket statements about ways that work for one person aren’t very helpful. Many people learn best in classes assuming the teacher is good at what they do. Some brains are wired to learn verbally while others learn through reading or imagery or some combination of all of these. To become truly proficient you need to immerse yourself in the language but the first steps to getting there can be achieved in many different ways. I will follow Senchou’s progress with great interest.

[@Longlius]

Full immersion might work if you come from a European language closely related to English. For example, Kiara speaks a Western Germanic language as her first language, which is squarely in the same language family as English, so many of the most common words have cognates and the grammar isn't too different. But if you're coming from Japanese to English you absolutely need some fundamentals to work from before proceeding to immersion. And even Kiara makes mistakes sometimes. She struggles with the 'th' dental fricative which has been preserved in English but disappeared from the high German dialects centuries ago, and she doesn't know some slightly obscure words that the overwhelming majority of native speakers know immediately (good example - in her Ryza playthrough, she didn't know the word 'cauldron' which any English-speaking child who grew up hearing fairytales or learning Shakespeare would be familiar with).

[@Longlius]

(Not to dunk on Kiara's language skills or anything. She's unambiguously fluent and grasps certain aspects of the language moreso than many native speakers. But she's certainly not flawless).

[@Rmx2011]

Lmao, it's really endearing to see other people learning english at this stage, also really weird to realise how my own first english lessons were over 10 years ago(fuck, now I feel old)!

[@Just_Some_Guy_with_a_Mustache]

Whelp, I have no excuse, now. *starts learning Japanese* Let's see if those commercials are right or not...

[@n3x0tak]

She spent 800$ to speak to her overseas fans ! Thats dedication ! We Love You Marine-Senchou

[@astorlefflinker8417]

I don't agree that english classes are a waste of time and money, people who say that are already good in english to begin with. Because if your english level is close to 0, it'll surely help you learn the basics. I had a Korean gf who, before she went to my country, used to send me messages that were so ridiculous because it came from a translator, meaning her level may have been even lower than Marine's, but she came to my country to study english, and after a month of learning english in school, she was already being spontaneous in her speaking and writing. After learning the basics, that's when watching dramas and movies in english (I recommend watching with english subtitles instead), will help a lot.

[@helmi_muza]

I think it depend on the person, some people might be better learning from school, some might better off learning another way. I personally doesn't learn anything from school, but now I could speak little bit of English because of movies.

[@stedeestelle2866]

I also learned that studying languages how we were taught in school is ineffective. Well, not FULLY, at least. Look up language acquisition on KZbin; there are lots of videos that differentiate "acquiring" and "learning" languages through "comprehensible input". The premise is that we acquire a language like how a toddler does. This involves tons of "input" in the target language, like what that teacher told Marine. I'm already transitioning to acquiring (not learning) Japanese. Spaced repetition systems can still help with kanji, but I want to allot more time into comprehensible input.

[@warpticon]

Comprehensible input is the most important thing, with the key word being comprehensible. It's a big part of why that advice in the superchat is so bad. He actually said to just watch movies with subtitles, like he isn't in a chat full of English speakers who watch Japanese vtubers all day and still don't speak Japanese. A tiny percentage of people already have the knowledge and mentality to learn a language primarily through brute force that way. The vast majority will get frustrated at taking 5-20 times longer to get through anything and eventually quit. For some reason people in language studies really struggle with the concept of survivorship bias.

[@stedeestelle2866]

@@warpticon true enough. The problem is comprehensible input is hard to find in films (best are media for children, imo). Also, it is harder to listen when there are subs, as the eyes are hotwired to look at those. This is where the language parent/exchange partner really shines, as they are the best sources of comprehensible input if you have the right materials.

[@ErikPT]

Watching these girls get serious about their EN has reminded me to get back in my courses with determination--fancy that!

[@mr.danish4576]

I expect that she already knows the rick roll meme.

[@medic-chan]

1:15 I fully support Marine learning French.

[@neku2741]

Kiara is a genius birb who learn 3 language by herself you can't really ask her for advice lol

[@nore5888]

She only really learned 2, German was natural

[@TervanX]

@@nore5888 you do realive, even if it is her native language she still had to learn it, right?

[@lieutenantcoloneltanyavond8273]

Saying classes are useless is misleading af. I would even say dumb. I learned most of my English in middle school. The school i went to had insane focus on English (double the number of hours compared to most schools in my country, with quater the number of people in the class). It made for a pretty exhausting school week, but after 3 years (with tangible effects after only one year) my English was pretty good. It's night and day compared to my Russian or French, at least. From my experience i would say that learning language *fast and well* requires pretty intensive regimen (at the very least an hour a day, even two if you have time to spare, everyday) *on top of* surrounding yourself with the language (games, movies, books, music, anything). I don't know about others, but i'm a lazy fuck and need someone to enforce that. Like classes... with a teacher... who will test you...

[@inasgiant5thapostleofthetw463]

Marine learning English and Kanata talking about how Marine really loves her fans makes me adore her even more.

[@3CLEMSPVP]

This is an all in one clip with great interactions love to see more

[@robiel0105]

English class isn't that waste of money because I've learnt a lot from it (English isn't my main language). Anyway, maybe English class isn't the best way to learn English, but it's the easiest way to learn English when you don't know where to start and don't know anything like Marine. Those classes might not improve her speaking much, but it will definitely improve her grammar and vocabulary. After knowing a little bit about English, she can change other kind of learning later.

[@LemonRush7777]

It can also help you cultivate a habit of studying.

[@Vendetta162X]

Major props to Hololive members and their efforts to learn and speak English. So wholesomely extra

[@kenenbaro20]

Current English teacher here, can confirm my classes are not going to singlehandedly help you speak English. But even tho conversation classes are not the best way, I still encourage my students to watch and read English language TV shows and comic books.

[@SteevLaw6]

Ok, I'm late to the party but screw learning English (from a French, of all people, the faq?) I need more MarinFRENCH in my life, that was great.

[@user-bx2sj4nz3m]

Ironically her French actually sounds a lot more natural and correct than her English.

[@nooberp4020]

Man. Now i wanna continue learning the japanese language because of how I got inspired by Marine and Subaru studying English for their overseas fans. I wanna watch their streams live and converse with japanese fans and the hololive members themselves. I stopped after high school when I grew out of my weeb phase. Only learned some basic Japanese conversational statements not even enough for the lowest JLPT score. Tho the basic japanese I learned helped out when I was working retail at a music store and some Japanese customers come in. The looks on their faces when a short Filipino boy starts talking Japanese is one I'll never forget. Made my biggest sale that day from two Japanese nationals buying some Fender Guitars.

[@CFlandre]

Marine is such a nerd, singing Code Geass R2's OP.

[@Ghost-jw5xn]

I studied English for half my life through school and tutors and I have to say they help out a lot, learning a language is interesting and having someone you can test your knowledge with by conversing with you in that language can help you understand faster.

[@aoveveryday1079]

i dont know why the comment says attend english class is wasting time and money is so mean, pls dont discourage people

[@Appers]

Honestly, language classes aren't sufficient on their own to learn a language but they're the single most useful method, and they make it much easier to communicate "in the wild". I definitely would never have become fluent in French if I'd tried to wing it without taking personal lessons.

[@painpeko8524]

Marine really love her fans .. knowing that shes taking english lessons for her overseas fans so she can also talk to us too makes my heart go doki doki 100x times

[@siekensou77]

marine is tone deaf??... she sings well

[@principalflame5199]

Sometimes her sustained notes end up a little flat- I'm actually bummed out that it bothers me/that I notice it because she's got such an amazing voice in every other aspect

[@siekensou77]

@@principalflame5199 not to the level that i would expect a tone deaf person would be at.

[@ShinigamiSamaH]

While classes help with grammar and other technical stuff, I do agree watching film, TV, cartoon, etc... with sub is the best way to grasp the language in everyday conversations. English isn't my first language (it's third) but I was able to manage it thank to a whole lot time spent watching shows with sub.

[@Ushisim]

Holy crap, you watch this clip even now and compare it to a couple months ago, her pronunciation and grammar shows such an improvement

[@DaimonAnimations]

Either way its awesome she is taking of her own time and money to learn English to reach her overseas fans, that's really TEE TEE of her to do. Marine is great!

[@neoshinji18]

Formal language lessons are not a waste of time or money. You have many advantages contrary to self study. First, you have a person who can help you get rid of your doubts in situ and immediately. The teacher can also correct and help you with your pronunciation, especially if you have very marked difficulties with it. Second, the teacher and your classmates create a safe space where you can experiment and challenge yourself knowing that you are really advancing and not wondering yourself if what you are doing is ok or not. Third, teachers push you through laziness and give you clear goals and landmarks which you will have to do. Not all people are disciplined enough to self study. Fourth, like anything, theory-based learning is much deeper and more refined once you learn it. In any career you can easily find the difference between a person who self learned it and one who studied and has a theoretical background. Fifth, TV programs, songs and movies are a double edged sword and while it is necessary to have them as a reinforcing material, it MUST NEVER be used as the main tool in your studies since most of the time they are plagued with grammatical horrors (not errors), slang (rarely used by students IRL scenarios), and cultural baggage which can confuse or even doom the student in some situations. It's like encouraging a person to not take a Japanese course but just watch anime as the main thing and then go and use that in a real Japanese scenario... see how it goes... Spoiler alert... it's a disaster! So it's a good thing Senchou is taking formal lessons and I wish her the best in this new adventure!

[@nook201]

It makes me happy that she asked Kiara for her opinion on learning English. Our polyglot Phoenix is wise 😌

[@oompalumpus699]

YOU HEARD OUR CAPTAIN BOIS! DESTROY THE TONES AND INTERVALS! HUZZAH!

[@fabienz31]

that's very exciting, Marine speaking with her very own english words ! Can't wait for her to get fluent !

[@thegentlemanpirate13]

Both lessons and immersion have their place in learning a language. Lessons will help you build a solid vocabulary, but may make you sound stiff and formal, because that tends to be the way languages are taught. Media, such as movies, will teach you more common vernacular, but you may have trouble understanding what's going on if you don't have a vocabulary that allows you to watch without googling everything. I learned English in school, but from 6th grade on, my main learning was done through media and the Internet (particularly watching movies I knew the plot of well, first with German subs, then English subs, then without subs). I am now on the brink of graduating with a Bachelors in British Studies, and have two separate certificates confirming that my English skills are on a Native Speaker level.

[@yoh3146]

I used flashcards, the Ankidroid one, don't know if I saw it in this ch, but I just tried it. Most of the words I saw was something I already knew because of anime and vtubers, so I had an easy start point. Watching and listening to things that uses the language you want to learn really helps a lot. I'm still continuing now, using the Genki I book and flashcards for kanji, but I'm having a hard time forming sentences. So I think classes will help me with that, but unfortunately I don't have time to do classes. If you have time I think classes really is the way to go(+self study).

[@SaganTheKhajiit]

She's trying so hard, it's so cool

[@ltea104]

A mix of attending language lessons, communicating with another speaker (especially a native speaker), and immersing yourself in the language(like watching a movie in that language, listening to music in that language, etc.) is generally a good way to become better, I think. That was what I sorta did when I studied Vietnamese a long time ago, although ten years of not using it in any way pretty much destroyed any semblance of knowledge I had of it. I do know that some people are better learners when it comes to just doing the immersion part, while others are better in a more structured lesson-based curriculum. Find the ways you feel keeps you engaged with the language learning and you'll do fine.

[@DeliciousApricotCake]

Language schools are good if you need a solid base to build on on your own. If you don't know the basics or where to start it'll be very helpful and you get the chance to ask questions to a teacher. For people like me having classmates and a classroom is very important too.

[@sleepass5460]

I love seeing these girls put in the effort to try and talk to their overseas fans. It makes me wanna work even harder trying to learn Japanese in all honesty. Granted I still can’t even read Hiragana

[@lazyshinobi2861]

Fast forward some time& imagine how many hololive jp members will be speaking English. What a day ❤❤

[@MilimChanYT]

When she look up My heart stop beating She looks so beautiful when she look up 😄

[@crumpet-kun]

"Why are the foreigners amused?" A question everybody everywhere has asked at some point or another

[@qsykip]

Classes are great. They're just not sufficent. They can really push you very far if you are prepared for it. If you've spent 10 hours outside of a class and then receiving one hour of feedback for the stuff that you have been doing, you'll find that this one hour will be extremely precious and you can learn so much from it.

[@andrewwestfall65]

I remember Coco saying something about knowing people that learned Japanese by watching shows, and she mentioned that they all talked oddly. It can definitely help when learning to speak it, as substitution or support of conversation, you still need dedicated study time to become fluent in the language.

[@MoonDasher07734]

Balance is good. I studied 2 languages, 1 as a kid being English. I agree that if you started learning a brand new language, even if it‘s also latin-based, lessons help you structure yourself and give insight to a lot of the foundations of the language and its grammar. The situations can be old fashioned and seem robotic but that is where we better it with different means. I agree with Senchou that she should take English classes, but obviously for the immediate goal of conversation and communication it is good to unbalance it into talking with foreigners and getting familiar with the spoken English

[@cjhilario2626]

Respect to senchou for trying to learn english tho. Its rlly heartwarming to see our idols try their best to connect with foreign fans like us😊