New 400 Legend, New 360 Buckhammer, And What Has Not Been Said

[@Master-AGN]

As it has roughly same ballistics as a 454 casull, if Winchester brings outs the 400 in a 6.5lb lever action they’ll likely have a big buck and black bear winner.

[@30-06john]

Yeah, not sure if a tubular magazine is feasible, would need flat nose ammo for it. Would be interesting. Thanks for watching!

[@jameseroh6544]

​@30-06JOHN, GUNS AND RELOADING If the rifle is made in the same style as a Henry Long Ranger. No problem.

[@simplicityrm]

I'd love to see winchester bring back the old self loader rifles but in 350l, 400l and 450 bush. Though I doubt it with as inexpensively you can build a ar nowadays. It would be a bit retro so to speak and get semi auto hunting look away from the ar look because we all know how certain folks just have anxiety attacks just over the looks of something lol

[@michaeldvorak5556]

There is a problem with lever action rifles using the tubular magazine. The bullet point must be blunt enough to keep from discharging the primer in front of it.

[@albertaoutdoors9220]

I shoot a 20” Rossi in 454 Casull Open sites inside 150 for me on deer Has taken a 40” bull moose at 75 yards. Just depends what you are looking for. Short range timber gun then 454 Casull is fine. Maybe the 400L with pointed bullets out of a longer barrel bolt action or single shot is suited for the medium ranges of 150-300 yard shots on deer? (In straight wall states)

[@Threegunmaster]

I'm team 450 Bushmaster works great on hogs ,deer and black bear. They did it right to start with.

[@30-06john]

Using .451"-.452" bullets makes it pretty easy to load for, a lot of good bullets out there. Thanks for watching!

[@bullfrogjay4383]

Same. No need for all the others. Many will fade away over time I think. The 350 legend and 450 bushmaster are well established and popular, we don't need anything else really.

[@billdailey6315]

350 Legend can kill a black bear. Enough said.

[@Threegunmaster]

@@billdailey6315 22 hornet will to but that doesn't mean you should use it

[@jamespollard1670]

30-30 will still hang in there .

[@30-06john]

Yep, nothing wrong with a 30-30! Too bad they can not use it in those "straight walled cartridge only" hunting states.

[@REDNECKROOTS]

For now but it will slowly slip into the sunset now that these are available

[@gerryjames9720]

@@30-06john Real world truth. 30-30 may well be the last one anybody carries, anywhere.

[@poorfatman5317]

Lol it's not Straight wall

[@billwill3732]

​@30-06john yea thats the whole point people don't seem to understand that. Some 30-30, 35 rem guys are offended for some reason.

[@tray22]

I think the 350 Legend is an awesome round. I have taken a buck with it and each of my sons have taken deer with it. What i would say is that with one round you get great internal damage and no exit while others will get a passthrough and does less damage. If you get a less than perfect shot good luck tracking unless you get that exit hole. 350 should be used as if it was a 150 yard max bow shot. Dont try to shoot through bone.

[@30-06john]

I wonder if that has to do with bullet construction with the .355" diameter. That was new for rifle bullets and I wonder if manufactures are still figuring out how to build good hunting bullets. Thanks for your info and watching!

[@tray22]

@30-06john The 170 power point made two holes with moderate damage. The deer season xp did great damage and had perfect expansion but only one hole. The blood trail with one deer season xp was great while the other two wasn't. The 170 power point was an OK blood trail. All short track jobs.

[@monkeyklaw1]

I had the same issue with heavy bullets in the 350, 170 Hornady would make a clean pass through but no blood trail. Best round I used was Federal Fusion 160gr, complete pass though with plenty damage. Here in Louisiana we can use a .35 caliber or larger cartridge in a breech load rifle with exposed hammer for Primitive Season and also single shot shotguns with exposed hammer with buckshot or slugs. No case restrictions so most people use .35 Whelen, so these new 35’s and larger give us other options. Soon as I can find a 360 buckhammer I’ll pick one up.

[@blackie1of4]

My brother and I use the Federal 180 grain loads. Both double lung heart shots.. complete pass through leaving a blood trail a blind person could follow! Not that it's necessary.. the deer mad dashed about thirty yards before piling up! We aren't in a straight wall state.. I actually picked mine up in 2019. Wanted something that had little recoil and was lightweight points fast readily available ammo which is inexpensive to boot! Is it the perfect deer rifle? Nope.. but it checks all the important boxes for north east big woods hunting! 99% of the deer my brothers and I have harvested were inside 75 yards. Some right under the stands!

[@tray22]

@blackie1of4 I think that 180gr might be the best all-around bullet for the 350. Those 150gr a lot of times don't go through, and you track by mouth blood. Not what I would call reliable.

[@9johneboy]

I did own a 360 Buckhammer Henry, most inaccurate rifle I ever owned. Tried everything from factory to my reloads, 180gr. Speer FN, 200gr. Hornady RN, terrible groups. For reloading the 400 Legend, I'm using 200gr. Hornady .40cal ML heads, ballistic tips, excellent accuracy, chronographs at 2353fps average.

[@30-06john]

That's too bad about the 360 Buckhammer. Seems that the 400L is working out for you! Thanks for watching!

[@robertjustice7911]

I am going to try the Hornady 200 XTP in reloading.

[@kenbailey5805]

Killed two bucks and a doe this year with the 400 Legend. Have a 350 also, it kills but it just seems like it’s anemic. Great kids gun and starter gun for recoil shy and beginners but for me it’s the 400 all the way.

[@homeinthewhiteoaks]

I was in a couple of different gun shops in Indiana, last week both of those shops had rows of Ruger American bolt-action rifles in 350 Legend. They must be selling a lot of them. Indiana is a straight wall state for public land.

[@30-06john]

Yeah, the 350L has really gotten popular, purpose designed to fill a surprisingly large market. I guess we'll see how popular the 400L gets. Thanks for watching!

[@Hill_Billy_Without_A_Hill]

The only issue with some of the rifle makers in bolt actions doing 350 legends , is some poorly chose to use 1/2x28 threads for 350 legend. One barrel maker early on did mention in their tests 1/2''x28 threads created a thin wall in 350 legends and they noticed belling out over time. So the threaded end was deforming due to the thin walls. 5/8''x24 should be the standard. With Ruger it would be a warranty issue if problem arose. I would say a few shots in a bolt action, you may never notice it, but guys with ARs with rapid fire, and added heat of suppressors may see the issue more. Still silly to use 1/2"x28, when they even use 5/8"x24 on their 30 cal barrels.

[@cw2a]

Ill have both... 360 Im kinda excited about. I want a CVA single shot. In 400, Ill go AR so just a barrel for me Ill assemble my own. Dont forget the 307/356 & 375 Winchesters.

[@30-06john]

I was going to add them into the pressure chart, but all SAAMI had was cup, not psi values for them. I wonder if Marlin/Ruger will come out with a 360BHMR?

[@sweetteaoutdoors]

Don't forget the 400 legend uses a different bolt. Same as 6.8spc and 224 valkyrie.

[@barkeater9606]

I am not sure how the Henry lever action will hold up long term. Of these three, I would buy the 360 Buckhammer in the single shot Henry. It can handle the higher pressure easily and it would be great for the handloader.

[@30-06john]

A better selection of bullets too. Thanks for watching!

[@josephbenge8707]

Henry has made a lever action that shoots the 45-70 round for years, so im pretty sure they can make one for the 360 that will hold up.

[@30-06john]

@@josephbenge8707 The 360BH runs at a much higher pressure, 50,000 psi, than standard 45/70 loads. Those run at 28,000 PSI.

[@josephbenge8707]

@@30-06john Wow, didn't know that, that's pushing close to a 50 BMG at 55,000 psi.

[@sweetteaoutdoors]

@@josephbenge8707 Chamber pressure will be just as high or higher on the 360BH though.

[@wadehays2349]

I have a 350 it's great gun for my kids .but for me it lacks knock down power and poor blood trails. Iam buying a 400 because I hate lever guns . I want a gun that thumps deer hard . The 450 is 100 yard gun .rifle hunting starts at 200 so that's the minimum. I shoot winchester deer season xp out of the 350 . Definitely getting a 400 but the should have called it the 10mm super mag .

[@30-06john]

Yeah, I've been hearing stories of the 350L for hunting. I think part of the problem is some ammo manufacturer's have not figured out how to make good hunting bullets for the 350L, which uses .355" bullets, not the normal .358" bullets. I have a 450BM in a Ruger Ranch, it is easily a 200 yard rifle, if not more. Thanks for watching!

[@wadehays2349]

@30-06JOHN, GUNS AND RELOADING yeah that why they should call it the 9 mag cuz that's what it is not a 35

[@ChristopherEDenton]

Amen to 10mm super mag

[@32perrymacpmj32]

Deer season xp ammo is the one ammo I keep hearing about poor performance results...hornady custom ftx 165gr.. has been awesome 140 yds and closer..5 deer taken furthest ran 60 yds!!

[@sweetteaoutdoors]

Deer season XP isn't a great round for blood trails. It comes apart too much. The Win 180 power point or Hornady Am Whitetail 170gn are better offerings IMHO. The Fed power shoks work good as well.

[@tonywize5104]

For me, I already reload for 10mm and would do so for 400 Legend using similar bullets- mono metal solids and 200-ish gr hard cast. I’d put an AR upper together for it. I have a few lever guns already and don’t have that itch to scratch.

[@30-06john]

Yeah, I think an all copper type bullet will be best in the 400L until good jacketed bullets are made. Thanks for watching!

[@kennethshoemaker2941]

I'll stick with my 450 bushmaster I've got 250gr. Barnes coming out the muzzle at 2650 no pressure signs it's a Ruger American go wild

[@30-06john]

Yeah, I have a Ruger Ranch in 450BM, in a bolt action they can be loaded hotter! Thanks for watching.

[@Rollinghillsconservation]

My model x chambered in .360 BH is extremely accurate! I’ve been very happy with it.

[@30-06john]

That's great! Thanks for the info and watching!

[@MisterBrewer]

Well, Im interested in the 400 legend. I think its going to be just right...

[@30-06john]

I'm sure it will be a good cartridge, my concern is ammo manufacturers making a good rifle hunting bullet since this is a new diameter, other 40 cal rifles are actually different. Thanks for watching!

[@ChristopherEDenton]

I live in Arizona but I'll still get the 400 Legend. Not every shot out west is 600 yds!! many are under 50 yds even pronghorn sometimes, if you know where!!

[@david6920-r6z]

Looks like a solid cartridge 🇺🇸 🇳🇿

[@30-06john]

Yep, got choices! Take care, John

[@CWME02]

NOE makes a 40 cal plain base flat nose 188gr bullet mold. Paired with a plain base gas check it would be a win in the 400. It should knock down anything in North America.

[@30-06john]

Yeah, I think a bullet in the 220-230gr range with a gas check would be a good load. Thanks for watching!

[@millermanhal]

I live in Maine. Very dense woods. Wanted to use an ar15 platform. Love my 20inch upper stainless fluted barrel. It is surprisingly accurate and perfect for what I need. Never shoot anything past 100yards up here. Usually dense woods so limited to 50 to 100 yards...but never had to do over 100yards. Plenty of rifle as long as you use a good bullet and make good shots. Drops em dead.❤

[@30-06john]

Glad it is working out for you, and thanks for watching!

[@123slizewski]

From what I have found the 400 legend is a good elk cartridge.

[@30-06john]

Yeah, I assume these are sponsored hunts since rifles and ammo really aren't out yet? I am suspect of this diameter for good hunting bullets, this is unique for a rifle cartridge. I am sure a good hunting bullet can be made, might take a couple of years to figure it out, also depends on what buyers actually use the gun for too. Hey, thanks for watching!

[@edwardlance2379]

Henry probably saw how popular the 350 Legend became and wanted in on the straight wall game for those states that restrict hunting to straight wall cartridges. Although the 360 Buck Hammer case is slightly longer than the 350 Legend case, they're pretty much the same ballistically. So, the 360 is essentially a rimmed version of the 350 Legend that'll work great in levers and revolvers, single-shots, etc (although S&W did chamber their x-frame revolver in 350 Legend). 400 Legend should fill the niche between the 350L and the 450BM as far as energy and recoil, so we'll see how that plays out as it does carry a fair bit more energy at 200 yards over both the 350L and the 360BH.

[@30-06john]

I think the 360BKHMR is a modern version of the 35 Remington, being able to use existing .358" bullets is a big plus that the 350L doesn't have. Since this is a rather new diameter for rifle bullets, ammo companies really have to build them for those velocities, and not use handgun bullets. Thanks for watching!

[@brantleythomas3941]

I was thinking the same thing A lot of hunters nowadays want the same ballistics out of a cartridge while having less recoil to deal with and I hear a lot of people say the 350 will beat out the 400 but I think there’s going to be a considerable amount of new hunters who choose the 400 over the 450 and older hunters that trade their 450 when their shoulders don’t like the recoil anymore And like you said the energy retention of the 400 over the 350 and 360 at and past 200 yards is really intriguing for people that hunt in areas that a shot like that is possible

[@autumnfragrance6326]

400 Legend can make a great subsonic home defense round; and also a effective 200 meter deer rifle.

[@30-06john]

I really didn't talk about AR use for the 400L. I am suspect of this diameter for bullet construction at rifle velocities, especially for big game hunting. Thanks for watching!

[@autumnfragrance6326]

@@30-06john I think 400L will be popular with the AR platform if reliable 20 and 25 round mags are available. Not sure if 400L will work reliably with 6.8SPC AR mags.

[@mckwilly]

Great info, always good to see options out there, as far as 400 legend I'd rather just use my 450 BM or 44mag rifle

[@30-06john]

Yeah, same here. I guess we'll see how popular it gets! Thanks for watching.

[@NorthwoodsNomad]

I agree ☝️ that’s exactly what I have ( Ruger American.450BM and a Henry .44 Mag Carbine ) And nice old Marlin 336SC chambered in .35 Remington ( classic lever action Sporting Carbine waffle top with Ballard cut rifling from 1951 )

[@stampede18ecs]

In very interested in the 400 legend for there using 40 cal bullet so theres options there for reloaders. Unlike the 350 legend you can't use the 357 mag bullets

[@30-06john]

Actually, the Dec.2022 Handloader Magazine has an article where .358" bullets are sized down and reloaded for a bolt action 350 Legend. An extra step but seems workable. Thanks for watching!

[@Edmondson_Avenue]

Hopefully some of the big name companies can bring us a 6-8 shot .400 legend revolver, it will possibly fire 🔥 .400 Legend, 10mm Magnum, 10mm Auto, .40S&W, and possibly a barrel & Cylinder swap version for .357SIG, 9X25 Dillon, and a new 9x32mm cartridge called 9x32 Baltimore, or .357 Baltimore, barrel length 6"-12".

[@30-06john]

A 400L, 10mm auto, 40 S&W revolver would be interesting! Thanks for watching!

[@Edmondson_Avenue]

@@30-06john don't forget 10mm Magnum would fit in it too.

[@richardthorpe8889]

“The turkeys opinion” has a mock-up of a 400 legend Rusty made to the siècle that are available, he has been trying different things with, really interesting stuff

[@30-06john]

Yeah, I saw one of those videos, they got that rifle and ammo made fast! Thanks for watching!

[@theprfesssor]

For plinking and training purposes it seems like you could use 10mm auto bullet's For hunting though i would use the factory options as they can should be designed to handle the velocities from the rifle

[@30-06john]

Yep, that sounds like it would work! Thanks for watching!

[@darylaboyce]

I agree.....I find Winchester's choice to go with a brand new cartridge at 40 caliber very odd, with no existing 40 cal bullets. Should have done a 1.8" length case at 44 caliber. 44 cal bullet selection would have been much better for reloaders, and also more ammo makers could get to market quicker.

[@30-06john]

Yeah, I guess we will see how popular it gets. Thanks for watching!

[@mkshffr4936]

Since I have no interest in autoloaders the 400 has no allure for me. The BH though sounds great. Of course if I already had a 357, 41, 44, or 45 I would be hard pressed to justify adding a BH. I hope they are successful as it is a fantastic idea and can easily be downloaded a bit if deaired and still be very effective.

[@30-06john]

Yeah, the 360BH is a great, simple idea, should work well!

[@shane3878]

If I had off the shelf 350 and 450 ARs, I'd sell them and build a 400 AR. The 450 is more than "brutal" on a whitetail if you hit them to drop them.

[@30-06john]

Yeah, I guess we will see how popular the 400L gets. Thanks for watching!

[@justinmiller7020]

I've been in the market for a new whitetail rifle and I'm going with the 400 legend. The 350 isn't bad, but for only a few more pounds of recoil I can get 20-30% better energy out of the 400. It's a no brainer.

[@30-06john]

I have not seen any rifles yet, but I have seen ammo on store shelves. Good luck, I hope you find a rifle soon!

[@OneLieutenant]

Already own a Savage .350 Legend bolt action. Rumor coming out of PA is they are now considering legalizing semi auto rifles in PA for large game(amazing, currently you can only use them for small game and varmints/predators like coyotes) if they ever do, I'll already have my .350 in a bolt, I'll likely want to buy an upper in .360, .400 or .450 for an already owned AR-15 lower. I don't need these calibers if I leave Allegheny County, PA. I have a .270 and .30-06 for that.

[@30-06john]

Yeah, that is amazing if using semi auto is legal for deer hunting! Thanks for watching and Merry Christmas!

[@asanmartinjr07]

Don’t forget javalinas & feral pigs with a 400 Legend.

[@30-06john]

Yeah, the 400L with be good for hunting a lot of animals. Thanks for watching!

[@leadhead7338]

Winchester just wants to have a better round than the Remington 360 Buck Hammer, but its a .40 cal and not a .35 cal so really apples to oranges anyways if you ask me, if i were to buy a lever action i would definetely buy the Remington 360 Buck Hammer

[@30-06john]

Yeah, Henry needed a 1.8", straight walled hunting cartridge for the states that mandate it in their lever actions. Thanks for watching!

[@cameronschweitzer3382]

Ive shot 2 deer with a 350 legend there was no blood on either i found both deer because i hunt a big field but there was zero blood from either deer its to small of a bullet

[@30-06john]

Thanks for your report and appreciate you watching!

[@garybrafford157]

You do know the 350lgnd,is bigger bullet then 30-06 and 308 right.355 v 308 .350 put the bullet were itneeds to be and they drop.

[@chrismarfia9917]

The bullet diameter is bigger BUT it lacks good terminal speed. The 350 L would be quite good if they add about 3-4 hundred fps. They neutered it to fit in the ar15 platform.

[@irked4975]

Rule of cool. Rocking a lever gun while walking through the woods is classic americana. I will be takinh my new Henry 360 buckhammer and Ruger Marlin 45-70 into the woods this rifle season.

[@30-06john]

You have some great rifles, good luck hunting!

[@Hill_Billy_Without_A_Hill]

What I think is weird with 350 Legend in AR barrels, is that the single feed ramp is not the standard ramp at this point. With all the feeding issues, the single ramp pretty much fixed that. Some issues could be tolerances or mag issues, but mostly from what I have seen and experienced, it's the ramp. I wonder if they are just trying to be cheap and repurpose 300 blackout ramps they already have around.

[@30-06john]

Maybe. Thanks for watching!

[@msb2948]

BFR, are you taking note? That would be on heck of a revolverr, 40 S&W for plinking, 10 mm for small deer and hogs and 400 for big animals.

[@30-06john]

That would be useful! Would have to have some type of star or moon clips. Thanks for watching!

[@Thousand_yard_King]

It's pretty simple, when you calculate bullet diameters and the number of people who die from them, anything under 40 caliber has a very high survival rate, but if you go 40 caliber or higher, it has a very high rate of mortality. If you apply this same thing too hunting critters, well there's your answer.

[@30-06john]

Well, that really applies to handgun bullets and velocities. Hunting cartridges going about 2000 fps and faster are different, as the 30-30, 35 Rem and 32 W Special have proven. Thanks for watching!

[@lawrencecardente533]

Lehigh Defense bullets will work in the 400 Legend.

[@30-06john]

Yeah, the all copper alloy will probably work OK, the deep penetrators and wide flat nose. Not sure how the expanding ones will work going an extra 1000fps. Thanks for watching!

[@ChristopherEDenton]

That a winning combo for the 400 Legend. I want that Combo!!!!

[@sandramoskwa]

The 375 Winchester is a strait wall that has over .200 longer brass and runs at 55000 psi. They lied about its ballistics and I believe these cartridges can’t beat it with less pressure. I believe these are all hyped to sound great but there is no free lunch when it comes to real ballistics.

[@30-06john]

The 375 Win brass is too long, many straight wall states limit length to 1.8". Thanks for watching!

[@Perry2186]

I might be able to clear up the need for 400 ledgend here in Indiana for public land the projectile has to be .357 or larger the 350 ledgend uses a .355 bullett technicality illegal even thou our DNR lists it as a legal round its on a gray area

[@30-06john]

Yeah, Winchester should have made the 350L one, maybe two thousands larger in diameter. Thanks for watching!

[@MrBuckeye63]

I believe the 356 Winchester was at 47 PSI but honestly I handloaded for it back in the day … and I had extraction problems on loads that were not MAX .. (336) so I backed off The Winchester 94 came out with a 94 BB that had a beefed up action .. the Marlin used a regular 336 with a supposedly a different heat treatment for the 356 , 375 cartridges and later on with the 338 & 308MX The newer powders LVR helped tremendously with pressure spikes Does the Henry have a stronger action ? Different heat treatment? Can the 360 handle more pressure being its shorter ? Maybe a combination of all above Id like to see the 338 MX reintroduced … by Marlin and picked up by Henry

[@30-06john]

I was going to add other lever action cartridges, but SAAMI has them in cup, not psi. As you mentioned, some are very hot. I have a 450M Marlin that I bought when they first came out, been a great gun with no problems. There were questions then if Marlin did a special heat treatment on those, I don't know. Marlin uses two different action for 30-30 and 45/70, and I think Henry uses one action. So maybe the 360 will be OK since it is in a bigger action. I guess we will find out! Thanks for your info and watching!

[@barkeater9606]

Winchester back in the early 80’s was going to make a 401 based on the 375 Win case. But, they realized that 40 caliber rifles don’t really sell well. They did make the 405 Win in the model 1895, but only the 300 grain bullet was available for it.

[@30-06john]

Winchester had the 401 self loading cartridge about a 100 years ago, very similar to the 400L. Thanks for watching.

[@barkeater9606]

@@30-06john It was the 408 not the 401. Sorry about the error on my part. I enjoy your channel. 👍

[@sweetteaoutdoors]

Yeah but 6.5 calibers never did well in the past as well......

[@sixtofive]

At the moment the best bullets for reloading the 400 are likely going to be the solid copper options from companies like Lehigh. I doubt it will take long for Hornady to have some new options available as well.

[@30-06john]

Yeah, the all copper will probably work OK. Thanks for watching!

[@edwardlance2379]

I suspect we'll see something similar to what happened with the 350 Legend. Shortly after it came out, all the major ammo makers loaded for it and in various bullet weights from 125 grain to 180 grain. They made those bullets available in component form for reloaders.

[@jerryjester4959]

Guy’s are reloading 45cal muzzleloader bullets with great success.

[@SilenceDoGood4th]

I think the problem with 350 legend is guys are using it in gas guns with 16" and shorter barrels expecting 20-22 inch bolt gun performance

[@30-06john]

That is probably part of the issue too! Thanks for watching!

[@MrBuckeye63]

BIG plus . ..400 in a AR style carbine To me if the 350 Legend would have rolled out with using a .358 bullet … it would have been perfect .. but damm a .366 bullet 🤣

[@30-06john]

Yeah, not sure what the thought was on using a .355" bullet in the 350L, they should have expanded the case a few .001s and use .358". Thanks for watching!

[@dalekehrer2421]

Anybody that says a 350 Legend is too small for deer must be a POOR shot. If a hunter has to rely on a bazooka to kill a deer, he's doing something seriously wrong.

[@30-06john]

Well, I think some hunters may be using target ammo, and some ammo manufacturers are still figuring out how to make a good rifle hunting bullet in that diameter, .355". Thanks for watching!

[@sweetteaoutdoors]

EXACTLY!!!

[@justinmiller7020]

I couldn't disagree with you more. Plus, it is a small round. Nobody wants a "bazooka," just something with a little more substance.

[@dalekehrer2421]

@@justinmiller7020 I couldn't disagree with you more. It's not a small round. 358 dia. , 150 to 180 gr. @ 2000 to 2200 fps is way more than enough to cleanly kill deer. Deer have been killed with much lower powered rounds for more than 200 years. You know how? By picking their shots and knowing how to shoot.

[@GRTOutdoors]

​@dalekehrer2421 .355 9mm actually js

[@mlkman5541]

Im curious now that ruger is making marlins again if they will even chamber the 360 or not. I figured for a straight wall henry would have just chambered the 375 winchester or 38-55. 375 Winchesters max pressure is really high as well, will be interesting to see if it catches on again. I think once marlin gets the .444 on the market it will take the cake for straight wall hunting.

[@30-06john]

The big problem is that all those cases are too long for the states that have the straight walled case hunting law, limit is 1.8". Henry actually makes a 38-55 now. Yeah, it would be interesting to see if they come out with a 444M, the case is too long for those states, so not sure how big of a market. Thanks for watching!

[@mlkman5541]

@30-06JOHN, GUNS AND RELOADING I didn't realize they had a max length. I'm from Utah they just added a straight wall hunt to the hams hunts (handgun, archery, ML, and shotgun) no scopes only irons and no semi autos. With the straight wall case hunt they added a minimum caliber 35 and minimum case length of 1.5 in I believe. I'd think in any of those states, any chambering for a win 1894 and 336 would be fine but good to know.

[@30-06john]

I think Michigan, Minnesota and Ohio, and a few others, are case limit of 1.8". That is how the 450 Bushmaster got popular, then Winchester purpose designed the 350L a few years later, for those states. I think there is a market for more lever action cartridges, a 444M , or 45/70 case cut down to 1.8", and renamed would be viable. 444M/1.8 or 458/1.8, that sounds sort of nice!

[@mlkman5541]

@30-06JOHN, GUNS AND RELOADING I wouldn't mind seeing a new revolver clambering similar to 454 casull but use a 458 bullet instead. Chamber that in a super blackhawk and a marlin 1894 would be a great deer rifle.

[@normankaster917]

But it's all about the stupid case length restrictions that will hold the 444 Marlin back... Michigan is one of the stupid states that limits you to 1.80" Max.

[@chuckstucky984]

The 400 Legend will work in a MSR (AR-15), the 350 Legend is for Lever Actions.

[@30-06john]

The 360 Buckhammer is made for lever actions. The 350L can be had in an AR action. Thanks for watching!

[@maxred222]

There’s always ammo availability for the new darling cartridges. Nothing wrong with 35 rem., or 358 win., or 338 federal, or even 35 Whelen…….except you can’t find any ammo in those calibers. With the exception of the new goofy priced Marlin 336s (yet to be seen, and probably not available in 35 rem), they’re just trying to get us to buy a new gun and lots of ammo.

[@30-06john]

Yeah, the 400L and 360BHMR are made for those states that mandate a straight walled case that is not longer than 1.8". Thanks for watching!

[@Lugnutz89]

The 400 legend should have been a .429 legend! Id take a 360 bh over 360 legend but the hang point is only Henry is making guns unless you go custom barrel on a TC which isnt affordable either.

[@30-06john]

Yeah, hopefully the 360 BH catches on, and more rifles will be chambered for it. Thanks for watching!

[@michaeldvorak5556]

You forgot the 375 Winchester cartridge that operates at a chamber pressure of 52,000 CUP or 55,000 psi.

[@30-06john]

Yeah, there are a few lever action cartridges I didn't include, pressure for them is listed in CUP, not PSI per SAAMI. I wanted to keep them all the same. Also there is not a direct correlation from CUP to PSI, although there is an estimated correlation. Thanks for watching!

[@leveractiongypsy1848]

its interesting and a surprise the 360 Buckhammer is starting out at 50,000psi....not alot of wiggle room for the reloader. The 35 Remington is at 33.500psi I'm guessing for maybe Remington model 14s out there? A 35 Remington in a Marlin can easily be reloaded a bit hotter, not to mention Buffalo Bore's 220gr Speer Hot Core bullet at 2200fps which is pretty much in the same load range as a 358 Winchester. I do get the whole idea of a straight walled cartridge so I guess we will see how popular (or not) these become

[@30-06john]

The 35 Remington was introduced in the Remington Model 8 autoloader, my friend had one many years ago. Yeah, I was surprised at how low it's MAP was! The 360 Buckhammer clicks, while the 400 Legend, everything is off, to me anyhow. Thanks for watching.

[@leveractiongypsy1848]

@@30-06john It must be old Remington Model 8s,14s and 141s for the lower pressures? Remington reworked the model 8 to the model 81 in the 1930s and it was chambered in 300 savage which has a working pressure of over 50,000psi

[@mr.puddles5246]

​@@leveractiongypsy1848360 buck insulates remington from lawsuits when uneducated persons blow up old guns in 35 Rem with more modern pressures.

[@jamesoncross7494]

These cartridges can go in an AR platform, which is what people want right now.

[@30-06john]

It would be interesting to know how many bolt rifles vs AR rifles in 350L that have been sold. Thanks for watching!

[@DummyRound]

Good points.

[@30-06john]

Thanks! I don't know if I am going to get one yet, still thinking.

[@EC-mc7vg]

Don't really have any need for the rimmed 360 Buckhammer as I have my 1894 Winchester from 1920 chambered in .30-30 and I'm in Texas, but it does fill the need for straight wall cartridge states. The 400 Legend however does interest me for use in an AR for shooting Texas hogs. I've been using the 350 Legend for the past few years and it is very effective on hogs.

[@30-06john]

Yeah, that might be the market for the 400L, AR shooters. Thanks for watching!

[@EC-mc7vg]

@@30-06john I think the 400 Legend market will be the same crowd as the 350 Legend crowd, bolt gun in straight wall states and AR hog hunters. The 360 Buckhammer seems more to satisfy straight wall state regulations and the traditionalists that want a lever gun that can use the same ammo as their bolt gun. I wish Winchester would partner up with Ruger/Marlin, Henry or figure out how to produce a lever gun chambered in 350 Legend and 400 Legend, I think that would give them control over the straight wall cartridge states and all but kill the 360 Buckhammer.

[@Off-target-xy6bx]

Does the 350 legend work better on hogs than the 7.62 x39 and 6.5 grendel? I’m interested in how well they compare. I got a legend and haven’t got to try it yet. 🤞 Idk anyone who has used it for hogs.

[@EC-mc7vg]

@@Off-target-xy6bx Better??? That's a very subjective question. I'll do my best to answer. The 7.62x39 works well on hogs with good shot placement, it is a capable round for hogs and is the cheapest to shoot of the three, I have put down a good number of hogs with it. I use the PPU 123 grain Pointed Soft Points, I don't run steel jacket ammo through my barrels. The 350 Legend is a little slower from a 16" barrel than 7.62x39 but has heavier bullets and is a larger diameter. I have put down a good number of hogs with it as well. I usually use the 150 grain Winchester Deer Season XP. If I was hunting open fields and shooting high volume I would go 7.62x39 all day for the cheaper ammo. The 350 Legend has more punch than the other two cartridges up close and in my opinion is more effective on hogs with good shot placement, it is a capable round for hogs, and my favorite hog cartridge for the AR platform for the past couple of years. So if you are not trying to stretch out the distance the 350 Legend is hard to beat for killing hogs. I don't have any experience with the 6.5 Grendel, neat little cartridge if you want or need more distance, it just didn't interest me or offer anything I needed for the relatively short ranges (50 to 150 yards) I hunt at. Plus it seems much easier to find 7.62x39 and 350 Legend ammo than 6.5 Grendel. You may want to look at another cartridge, 300 Ham'r from Wilson Combat. I just put together two more ARs, 11.3" pistol and 18" rifle in 300 Ham'r for shooting hogs, I've had a 16" 300 Ham'r AR for about a year or so and it has done well on hogs with good shot placement.130 grain bullet at 2,500 fps out of the 18" barrel AR and flatter shooting than the 350 Legend or 7.62x39, but ammo availability and cost can be a limiting factor for the 300 Ham'r. So, I think for the "average" person that is not a hand loader and wanting to shoot hogs effectively, with readily available ammo, it is hard to beat the 350 Legend in an AR platform rifle. Sight in your rifle and blast a hog at the neck and shoulder junction and you won't be disappointed in the 350 Legend. I hope I answered some of your questions, if you have anymore questions please do not hesitate to ask.

[@Off-target-xy6bx]

@@EC-mc7vg Thx I appreciate your help 👍

[@jimmieburleigh9549]

You would think necking up 35 Remington would make good brass for the 400 legend. It's 5 up just like the 360 buck hammer is a 5 up necked up 30-30???

[@30-06john]

Hmmm. The rim diameter is a bit bigger but could be trimmed down. Might work!

[@jimmieburleigh9549]

@@30-06john a hair at most. They are both rimless. Shouldn't be tuff at all.

[@charlesfeeneyii9975]

here the thing with the size you have these guys who have not been allowed to use rifles in these states. so there options was a 12 gauge or a 50 cal muzzle loader. they complain about the size due to the smaller blood trail that the 350 leaves due to the smaller size of the round. makes it harder to track shot deer. while to me this just means you need to practice with the gun more to get a more accurate shot to drop them sooner or learn how to track better.

[@30-06john]

Getting a good hit into the vitals is always important, hopefully hunters practice more since ammo is a bit cheaper for the 350L. Thanks for watching!

[@9johneboy]

Excusing all the hype on the 350 Legend round, it's nothing more than a souped up .357 Magnum. I own a 400 Legend Savage Axis stainless, & using factory loads, the 215gr. Power Point bullet is not a Spitzer, ballistic tip type bullet as the 350 has & still outperforms the 350. As far as accuracy goes, with factory ammo, I'm cutting moa & less at 100yds. Oh by the way, I'm on a crop damage farm here in Pennsylvania & 4 big does dropped in their tracks at 133yds, 116yds, 88yds, & 51yds. The 5th doe, shot at 91yds, double-lungs, went about 50yds before going down. The guys I know with 350 Legends didn't see that kind of performance. In fact half of them went to the 400 Legend!!

[@30-06john]

Congrats on hunting success! The 350L is more a hot 357 Maximum. I know a lot of people that use a 35 Rem, which is similar, they all love them. I think some ammo companies are not making good hunting ammo and bullets. Using .355", instead of .358" bullets, end up with improper bullet construction. I talk to a few hunters that use the 350L, with good ammo it is fine. Thanks for watching!

[@MrBuckeye63]

Only reason 308 ME didn’t succeed is because.. Remington ruined Marlin Also Winchester did design a 400 Winchester in 1983-84 .. just wasn’t released The 360 an be put in a bolt gun Savage 340 was chambered in 30-30 … I actually see Ruger producing a Ranch carbine in 360 BH

[@30-06john]

Winchester had the .401Self loading cartridge a 100 years ago, similar but a bit less powerful than the 400L. Yeah, a 360BH in a bolt gun would be nice! Thanks for watching!

[@russellkeeling4387]

I'm going to wait for the 750 Legend.

[@30-06john]

That is 12g with Brenneke slugs! Thanks for watching!

[@joesonfifth3661]

The problem with the 350 Legend is that it is totally 1 dimensional. It’s fair at hunting white tail. Whereas the 400 Legend will be better for deer and good for larger tougher game like bears. Seems like a good idea to me! 🧐

[@30-06john]

Hopefully it will work out. My concern is ammo makers having good bullets going 2000+fps for this, a 10mm handgun bullet really wont hold together. Thanks for watching!

[@joesonfifth3661]

@@30-06john hopefully the bullet manufacturers will produce good bullets soon 👍

[@mrackerm5879]

The 375 Winchester operated at 52,000 PSI

[@30-06john]

SAAMI lists 52,000 CUP for the 375 Winchester, PSI has not been established. Thanks for watching!

[@jimmieburleigh9549]

I'm sure ruger and savage will come out with bolt guns for the 360 buck hammer.. I'm sure someone will make a lever gun to shoot the 350 and 400 legends.

[@30-06john]

Those would be interesting!

[@MayvilleAcres4Dogs]

400 wheelen is a beast..

[@30-06john]

Yeah, but the head spacing issue with brass made it a niche cartridge. Thanks for watching!

[@ChristopherEDenton]

Even a .35 Whelen is Beast!!! Mine has a muzzle brake and an extra thick butt pad and it's no .243 for kick

[@JacobG-d9i]

400 legend should be made for a semi-auto handgun like a Glock

[@30-06john]

Sort of a large cartridge for a semi auto pistol, but maybe!

[@DouglasPrice-p9q]

the buckhammer chamber pressure is nothing compared to the chamber pressure of the 454 casull that some rossi 92s are chambered in

[@30-06john]

The 360BH is chambered in the Henry, which is a modernized Marlin action. The Rossi 92 is a Winchester action, which in some ways stronger. SAAMI specs the 454C at 65,000 PSI, but most ammo and load data is 55,000 PSI. Even Buffalo Bore says they don't load the 454C to full potential because it can become unreliable. Still a very powerful round. Thanks for watching!

[@DouglasPrice-p9q]

@@30-06john... generally the closer the locking lugs are to the firing chamber the stronger the action ... the Win 94 & Marlin 336/1895 are rear locking actions ... the Win 92 & 1886 actions locking lugs are sort of in the middle of the bolt and the Win 88 and BLR '81 actions locking lugs actually form the rear of the firing chamber/barrel assembly ... that's why BLRs can be chambered in high pressure cartridges like the 300 Win Mag ... the Win 92 would theoretically be stronger than the Marlin 336/1895 clone actions

[@googleuser3760]

Interesting video.

[@30-06john]

Thanks, and thanks for watching!

[@gerryjames9720]

Gonna call B.S. on a couple of things: 1) The .357 magnum is a miserable deer cartridge😊. Even from a rifle it is marginal, and from a pistol it’s a serial wounder. Real-world trollbait. Apart from exceptionally practiced pistoleros, only a boob will try it. 2) The “Big Fat Brush Cartridge” is a MYTH. It’s the kind of campy nonsense unwary novices suck up and regurgitate. Real world testing has shown that the wider the bullet, the worse it is at getting on target through “brush” (whatever that may mean, apart from repeatable, properly designed research.) As for the use for these new cartridges, the ones with a rimless cases are the incarnation of the semiauto-all-around-round. With a lightweight OTM bullet they are well suited to make dirtbags jump back out the door. With properly constructed bullets they can handle tougher game. Without the gut busting backpedal of the .450 loads. I positively lust after an affordable, well-made semiauto in .400 legend. And the .360 Buckhammer is just smart. Improve on the venerable .35 in a practical platform. Cool. A revisited notion of what a woodland deer slayer should carry.

[@30-06john]

A 357M is and has been an effective deer round out to about 100 yards, correct ammo and a good hit in vitals is required, as always. A friend has a 357M Ruger 77 and has taken a few caribou with it without any problems. We will see how popular these new cartridges get. The 360 Buckhammer will have a market in leverguns. The 400L is between the 350L and 450Bushmaster, so that market is limited. Thanks for watching!

[@terrymattson3587]

I believe that you are right, people are using full metal for hunting. City it’s. I use my grand nephews 350 on a buck and it’s a good round with a soft point.

[@30-06john]

Yeah, FMJ ammo is cheaper and many hunters think bullet construction doesn't matter. Thanks for watching!

[@rexking3698]

The 350 legend is nowhere close to the 358 win or 35 whelen, but shot be sufficient

[@30-06john]

That is what I said in the video! The 357 Maximum (not magnum) has been used a fair amount in single shot rifles for deer hunting with great success. The 350L is a lot more powerful than that. Thanks for watching!

[@davidno1minton997]

10,mm,super,magnum

[@30-06john]

Yeah, that what it is all right! Thanks for watching!

[@patrickseekins1299]

356 win win Maximum CUP 52,000CUP or 60000 Psi.

[@30-06john]

There is not a direct correlation between CUP and PSI, which is why SAAMI does not mention a PSI value for the 356 Win. But the 356 Win was very hot, I had friends tell me that the lever would swing open shooting factory ammo. Thanks for watching!

[@oreopuppydawg1564]

Great video. We have 350 legend and it destroys deer

[@30-06john]

Thanks! Yeah, since introduction, the 350L seems to be pretty popular!

[@t.c.f.fuller8867]

The deer i've seen taken with the 350l there very little blood

[@waynekurtz3058]

Wow, a lot of doubt and trash talk on a round that you hadn't even tried yet. The .400 legend is highly popular in ohio right now and for good reason. I have 2 of them myself

[@30-06john]

The issues I talked about are valid for both cartridges. The 400L is very similar to the Winchester .401 Self Loading Cartridge from 100 years ago. Good luck hunting and thanks for watching!

[@simplicityrm]

When the 350legend performance was referred to when it came out seemed all the hunting bullets were way to hard and were expanding. It has been since remedied. The 400legend I can see for 2 reason. First like as stated people wanted a bit more oomph and second there are alot of 10mm fans out there.

[@30-06john]

Yeah, might be all the 10mm fans! Thanks for watching!

[@PassivePortfolios]

The 400 Legend will be a bust. The jury is still out on the 360 BH but my guess is that it does not look good at this point. Too much recoil and you don't need that much power to reliably take deer and black bear. The 350 Legend does just fine for those. It is one of the rare rounds which have made it because it was needed not something that the firearms industry wanted to sell and impose on hunters.

[@30-06john]

Yeah, the 350L filled a need rather well. The 360BH is purpose designed for lever actions. To me, the 400L really doesn't fill a need, it is just between a 350L and 450BM. We shall see! Thanks for watching!

[@darrellmorse1894]

Can't even find a 360 Buck Hammer rifle yet. In straight walled states it will become very popular. I have a Ruger in 350 Legend but will add the 360 as soon as I can find one. I do live in Ohio, however, anywhere a 30-30 is still used the 360 will fit right in also. I agree that the 400 may be the odd ball out early. I still hunt with an old Remington 141 in 35 cal and Savage 99 in 300 Savage, so I also like the old mild stuff too.

[@PassivePortfolios]

@@darrellmorse1894 I have relatives near Canton-Akron. They say the 350 Legend rules there in accurate bolt action rifles. The ammo is cheaper than other legal straight wall calibers. Doesn't kick much . Any new calibers will have a hard time making it due to the popularity of the 350.

[@billdailey6315]

I worry the 400 Legend will die and I’ll be stuck with it with either no ammo or very expensive ammo.

[@PassivePortfolios]

@@billdailey6315 It's finished already, it failed to sell.

[@knobjob2839]

I want both of these chambered in revolvers

[@30-06john]

Yeah, Smith X frames and Magnum BFRs are on a roll lately! Thanks for watching.

[@keithhagler502]

PSI on this is outrageous. The .360 everyone needs has been around since the good days. The .360 2 1/4". All this amounts to is blatant marketing shenanigans and nothing more. "Buckhammer"....lol...."rolling eyes"

[@30-06john]

Well, the 360 Buckhammer was purpose designed for states that limit cartridge brass length to 1.8", and has to be a straight walled. Many great cartridges cannot be used like the 30-30, 35 Rem, 444M, 45/70, 38/55 and the 360 express 2 1/4". It is also how the 450 Bushmaster, and the 350 Legend got popular. Thanks for watching.

[@ChristopherEDenton]

I'm on board with the 400 Legend not with the 360 Buckfart

[@arthurshingler2025]

I like the Buckhammer. I was, in the beginning concerned about excess case stretching at the high pressure its rated at.... but time will tell. I prefer the 300 HAMr over most other AR cartridges based on the 5.56 X 45mm case. BUT THE 400 LEGEND DOES SHOW PROMISE. ESPECIALLY IN AN AR MSR...!

[@30-06john]

I think the 360 Buckhammer is a great, simple design, even with it's high operating pressure. For the 400L, manufacturers need to make good hunting bullets that can operate at 2000+fps. Thanks for watching!

[@JacobG-d9i]

I would like to have a handgun in 400 legend

[@30-06john]

S&W makes a revolver in 350 Legend, maybe they will make one in 400L!

[@johnpicarello1821]

400 case 6.8 spca case

[@30-06john]

Yes, but the actual bullet diameter is new for rifles going 2000+fps. Although it is very similar to the 100 year old 401 Win Self Loading cartridge. Thanks for watching!

[@Backin_Theday]

It's like Winchester management doesn't want to admit they were wrong when they release the "350 Legend" with an actual .355 bullet (not truly a .357) in a case with a 5.56 head rim diameter, when they should have released a 358 Legend based on the 6.8 head case. Now it seems as though they have skipped over the obvious and went with something for the hipsters. The lack of good thick jacketed soft point 40 cal (10mm) bullets in the market, makes it difficult for reloads. I have an old 1873 Winchester that belonged to my great great uncle, chambered in 38-40 and only have about seventy-five 200 grain soft point bullets left for it. For target and plinking I am stuck with cast lead or hollow point.

[@30-06john]

Yeah, the 350L bullet diameter should have been .357, maybe .358. Thanks for watching!

[@joeparker7508]

Can't fine a gun in 400 or 360

[@30-06john]

Yeah, they are not that common yet, but a few people have them. Thanks for watching!

[@billdailey6315]

RKguns has some Savage 400 Legend.

[@richardfeury7692]

360 isnt worth the money , its just a 3030, nothing more , just a money grab , 350 legend ok gun just remember your ability

[@30-06john]

The 360 Buckhammer was designed so lever actions can be used for hunting in states that have a straight wall, 1.8" case rule, 30-30 cannot be used. Thanks for watching!

[@MrChessieohio]

I have a new savage 110 400 legend. It won’t group worth a crap at 100 yds. Sent it back to savage they replaced the barrel sent it back to me. Still won’t shoot good. I sent it back again yesterday. My buddy bought identical gun same day. Serial # is one # higher than mine. Had to send his back for same thing. They replaced his barrel & they couldn’t get his to shoot a good group either & sent him a new rifle. He hasn’t shot that one yet. I’ve tried 2 scopes, screws torqued to spec, scope leveled & bore sighted, shot off lead sled at 100 yds. 🤷🏻‍♂️ Anyone else have trouble?

[@30-06john]

I have not heard any reports, good or bad, of the 400L. Sorry to hear of your problems, I hope they correct it.

[@frankbrowning328]

The 350 Legend initially suffered due 1st to lack of ammo availability and then due to marketing overstating range capability with the ammo that was introduced. They gave people the idea that this was somehow going to be a longer range cartridge than it really was with the bullets that were then available and this can cause poor performance on game. This is a 150 yd cartridge with proper bullets. It really isnt well suited for 200+ yd shots at large game. The 400 appears to be a normal progression to the case marketingwise. 35 cal & 45 cal were available so why not a 40 cal. In an AR platform it does pretty well in the 1 example I've seen providing more power than the 35L and less recoil than the 458. However it too should not be utilized at long range. The 360 Buckhammer looks to be a great cartridge but the 35 Rem doesn't sell all that well anymore and there are only so many areas that require a straight wall case so I dont know how popular it will become.

[@30-06john]

Yeah, it will be interesting to see how these perform in the field! I have not seen any guns or ammo for either one yet. Thanks for watching!

[@alexmunn5321]

Here is my my 2 cents ... all of these new offre8ngs are up against 2 or the biggest Goats in the hunting rifle industry. 30/30 win and 45/70 gov . Both have proven thier metal over many o decades. And have survived many trying to dethrone them. . We are talking 150 to 200 yard rifle cartridges. I like straitwall and leverguns emensely and would reo them for the bush to anyone. Whether you pick a a 30-30 , 444 mar , 308 express , 350 leg ,409 leg or 360 buckahammer I don't think will matter. Pick what you like and shoot best. Ya feel like a 359 legend giver..... want it in bolt ... good for you.. I know with my 45/70 or 30-30 . If a deer or black bear get in my sights within 200 they are going to be down . I'm sure all of the other new rounds will be more than capable. And ultimately it is up to us the hunter to know our limitations with the tools we use. If I were a betting man though I would put my money on the 360 buckhammer to be the one to stick for a bit. Why .. use it fills a gap that has been missing since the 35rems demise . I'm also willing to bet ammo choice will be better with time and more rifle manufactures may get on board. But I only say this with a small gra8n of salt. 30 old boys (30-30 and 45-70 ) still have what it takes especially with new ammo types. I love mine and they will never my safe u til hunting time.

[@30-06john]

Well, the 450BM, 350L got their start in states that limit hunting to straight wall cases, 1.8" or shorter. The 30-30 and 45/70 are not allowed for hunting. It will be interesting to see how popular the 400L and 360 Buckhammer get. Thanks for watching!

[@turtlewolfpack6061]

You can't reinvent the wheel and that is all this is. Same as the joke of the "Legend" cartridges.

[@30-06john]

Well, the 360 Buckhammer was created for lever guns for those states that mandate 1.8" straight wall cases for hunting. That is why the 350L was made too. I guess we will see how popular the 400L gets!

[@turtlewolfpack6061]

@@30-06john the .360 Buckhammer at least seems to use decently heavy bullets, the "Legend" jokes are loaded with super light projectiles for caliber and then pretend to be something they aren't. If they loaded them with heavier pills at moderate velocity then MAYBE there would be something here. Once again Winchester fails, which is a bit sad.

[@sweetteaoutdoors]

@@turtlewolfpack6061 The 350 works fine for it's design. That is the heaviest bullet you can get in an AR length cartridge, which was done of purpose. Yes, there some things about it I would love to be different, but it does the job quite well at 200 yards. Never had a deer take more than 2 steps after being shot with it, and the farthest a hog made it was about 10 yards. Ang Remington has probably failed as many or more times the Win on cartridge designs.