NEW General's Handbook 2023-2024 Review - Warhammer Weekly 07052023

Join us for another week of news, rumors and all things Warhammering! This week, it's time to dig into GHB 2023. This one will last a whole year, so it better be a good one!
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0:00 News
11:45 Pick of the Week
14:15 Hobby Time
21:30 GHB Overview
2:14:00 Battleplans
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[@jjnumber10]

Been watching for about 5 years. Great show! 1 thing I would like to see, is Vince to include pictures of the mini’s he has painted into the show slides. I always want to see them but as I watch on my wee phone, it’s really hard to see. X

[@JackCawood]

Played a game last night and brought the new wizard battalion to give me additional primal dice. You unbind with perfect knowledge and get to use your dice on the one or two spells you want to unbind. This will reliably allow you to unbind total eclipse or the 5+ ward cast by teclis where before I had very little chance vs. those spells.

[@maximebemer3407]

What an awesome review, as usual! Thank you so much guys! Im just surprised you didn't talked about endless spells changes, because some of them are MAJORS!!

[@VinceVenturella]

We do in the next show after this one. :) - Deep detail as always. :)

[@maximebemer3407]

@@VinceVenturella yepah! Can't wait for this! ;-)

[@CinderfallGaming]

So that Warcry box will be amazing. So they have released a game mode for Warcry called Bladeborn which plays the game using underworlds warbands vs each other. Last box set was $60us I believe. Aimed as a very first intro into Wargaming as a whole, will have a whole step by step how to play tutorial set if anything like Bladeborn. Very similar product to the Underworlds Starter set that came out not too long ago.

[@acommonlistener1041]

What about "Uncle Bru's"description of the double walls and deep gateways into the City...; I've flipped the map to match Gary's map from CITY OF HAWKS novel.

[@ghostmutton]

Now I really want to try rewriting those skewed battle plans into something less egregious. I feel like you can get the same theme going without so gravely punishing specific faction types.

[@ringodeathstarr9795]

the gang is back together. cheers boys

[@Toastergod44]

How do you guys feel about heroes with abilities that force your opponent to re-roll successful casts like the Enrapturess? To my mind, the first qualifying statement in the primal magic rule stipulates abilities "allowing" you to re-roll before any primal dice are added, which would make the Enrapturess' ability "allowing" you to re-roll by force completely shut down using primal dice on that cast. The obvious loophole would be turning an initially failed cast into a success with a primal, subverting the re-roll.

[@VinceVenturella]

I feel it needs an FAQ

[@jonfisher4106]

Nexus Collspse was the most fun I’ve had on a battle plan in years. Very strategic. Agree with you on the mortal wounds thou

[@KP-ek7qu]

Great review. Regarding the battle tactics, the ones in this GHB are very good, but there is a strong contrast vs the tactics in some of the books. So it will often lead to matches, where one player have to build their list around those and have make all sort of difficult choices/compromises to get some BTs, while the other is just doing them at will. So its very much strengthening the haves ans have nots feeling I have about the tactics.

[@timguinn4283]

Great show!! I'd love to see a breakdown of factions that should go magic and ones that go anti magic , love to see where STD settles

[@dinmacxan]

If the enemy army is a summoning army, Slaughter of sorcery means a turn 4 or 5 summon of a wizard will most times deny it, and almost all summoning armies have a very cheap wizard. It doesn't say starting army wizard.

[@chrisbagdon]

Great episode! Wish I could have joined live to add to the conversation. I think the best combo for casting Hoarfrost and Blizzard will be Tzeentch's command trait, Cult Demagogue, which auto-casts and can't be unbound on any double while casting, then using Destiny Dice to guarantee the double. Can go on several different Andys, can be cast every turn, can never be unbound. Take a spell enhancement and take both spells on the caster so you can choose which is auto each turn.

[@alanwesley598]

Glad the tactics seem easier. The OBR book tactics were unit dependent. These ones double up on some of those and making it way more doable.

[@zemiron]

In relation to whether or not I like this type of change from GHB to GHB, I really enjoy it. I like that the game switches up from season to season. It makes the game more interesting when it is well done.

[@Rd0Lg]

If you're interested in learning about Warhammer Fantasy, a channel called Discourse Minis made basically a mirror version of Bricky's All Factions Explained, but for the fantasy setting. She's also got a peppy, high energy thing going on like Bricky so I think you'd enjoy it.

[@therustbeltblacksmith]

@6:59 It's weird, it seems garden of Morr inspired, but more closely resembles some of the pieces laying around some of the FEC models (archregent, the fence from the endless spells, and the throne) paired with a Soulblight sarcophagus and shrine. In an alternate universe, this is the AOS Skirmish, 3rd edition starter box.

[@cmleibenguth]

The Oops! all Dragons list has been powerful for all of 3.0 Partially because of just strong warscroll But each season so far, save maybe the Gally Champ one, has had some kind of mechanic that they can use well (Monsters, being Bounty Hunters, and in this season -- a 4+ ignore against all the wizards) The army has been double incentivized How many dragons has GW sold and how many do they need to sell?

[@Scarycrow89]

I'll take an "age of dragons" over an "age of tzangors" for the 4th edition.

[@seraphoncobus]

I want to shout out the play on tabletop's first AoS battle report. They did a great job, high quality, very entertaining to watch.

[@TombKingTristan]

I'm stoked for BYOTRTTs bring you own tower 1 dayers LETS BUILD BABY

[@tizianomerello6530]

Guys on Geomantic Pulse map, if I control only the pulse, its 2 VP or 3VP ? Thx:)

[@kewanzahedinour7304]

Good abilities are checked once to trigger (or just do something, since a prior roll happend e.g. ogor charge), then have an effect. Somehow casting a spell is checked nearly 3 times with addition range check in the herophase: cast, unbound, Bravecheck => D3 mortals ... (gj Drycha, somehow your spell is bad even against skaven)

[@gailonebell2154]

Having seen this in action a bit, I think this new season actually helps push back against the "haves" of magic. Rerolls are a big part of magic consistency, now you are far more likely to unbound. Weak magic users are far more likely to be able to cast a spell. In action it really feels like this flattens the magic power curve, not exacerbate it. (this is after some Skaven v. Stormcast games, where these rules really brought the grey seer back to earth, and some Seraphon games, where the removal of Cogs really cut down) EDIT: the big miss on the 'winners/losers' analysis is not thinking through the casting/unbinding sequence. Casters aren't just casting on some huge number, because they roll and then decide to add a die. So here is a common scenario. Both players have one dice. Slann rolls to cast a spell at +1. Rolls a 7 for a cast of an 8. Now do they use their die or not? If they don't the unbinder has a great chance of unbinding. Plus they get to roll that unbind first and then choose to add a die. So maybe they just roll that 9 or 10 and save the dice. This sequence has proven very powerful in practice. One game I was able to save two dice through the phase because I knew my skaven opponent had to cast skitterleap. He then had to put both his dice into his cast attempt (meaning he could not 3d6 or reroll), and he primal miscast, dead general, game over.

[@seanditchfield5609]

I really enjoyed my first game with this GHB and overall I think I can manage a year on it. The only big miss for me is that there is no disincentive for stacking primals on unbinds. My opponent rolled 2D6+4 primals and it just felt bad

[@Leviticushateford]

Great show as always! Definitely love agro Tyler on disagreements. Question on FAQ you mentioned. On how Primal dice will work with spells...I didn't understand what the major issue would be

[@VinceVenturella]

It’s a big difference if it’s moving the cast roll around as then it would count toward an unmodified roll and have crazy consequences.

[@Leviticushateford]

@@VinceVenturella got it now! Thanks

[@jonfisher4106]

How does Retreat and Charge mechanic work for contesting objectives on every step is forward?

[@VinceVenturella]

Retreat and charge would set you to zero and then back to +1, so basically normal.

[@foxtrot2824]

I, for one, welcome Tyler’s Attitude Era! 😈

[@Leviticushateford]

You made mention of just adding a bounce vs the dice roll

[@Leviticushateford]

???

[@KountKristyl]

Sorry if it's a dumb question, but would the Primal dice stack with Cabalists hero action to be able to cast a spell on 4d6?

[@VinceVenturella]

Yep, they would.

[@SolarGryffin]

I tend to like big changes in games like this, even if it throws some things out of wack. Because if it bad for you then at least you know it will change. Also I wonder if Sylvaneth Vesperal Gem would be fun with Hoarfrost or Merciless Blizzard

[@PressXToArclight]

Vesperal Gem only auto casts from the Sylvaneth spell lore, so no using it on the GHB spells unfortunately.

[@IzzysIssues]

34:41 this feels like a bit from a telecom advertisement from a couple years ago

[@zemiron]

I think that Vince is wrong about the stuff that gets +2 to unbind or whatever. Unless the bonus to cast is like +6 or something, these types of unbinders have the advantage of generally having the same number of primal dice as the caster and don't have the same risk for miscasts. They can react to what the caster does and use their primal dice accordingly. I think these units are pretty strong in this meta given all of this.

[@MrPubsquash82]

Great game just had one with my skaven used lots of rat ogors and whipping, insane damage output

[@VinceVenturella]

Very nice!

[@LakeyWargames]

I have to say I'm on the fence about this season, on one hand I don't hate it but I'm not all too excited for it either. So I have mixed feelings going into this one but still, it's something different and I look forward to battling the new magic challenges that arrive! :)

[@jackkreeger6617]

Thank you so much for everything you do Vince. Are you making it to gencon this year?

[@VinceVenturella]

Yep, I will be there!

[@jakessofa8187]

to take a note out of the Supertroopers book, are we now going to play the "snow" game? how many times you can get away with saying snow during the game

[@wags2656]

Any chance the rumor engine is the arm of a new rat ogre?

[@VinceVenturella]

Anything is possible.

[@marc-andrefecteau1463]

for every step forward it should have been counts as 1less when retreating so retreat and charge could have cancelled each other

[@nakedsnak]

Snarling Badger really is an excellent name for a company

[@nickthompson6642]

What would you think if Primal Dice couldn’t be combined with any casting/unbinding bonuses? Including multi-dice rolls. That’d be an easy errata and would help the little lame Ironjawz-style wizards

[@HoovesofDoom]

Looks like an interesting season. A lot to think about.

[@takeovermars9517]

I personally want more change season to season. I think this was a good step but can go farther

[@deliciousrelish]

I like when Tyler disagrees. I think my corn boys are gonna have fun this season. Sad about murderlust nerf, but it had to happen and is still a cool ability.

[@shadeling6717]

The most important questions was not asked this stream. Where is big pig? hopefully this season is overall good with the changes from the update. Most of my armies are in the middle magic wise so i expect to get the beat stick a little too much.

[@VinceVenturella]

Where is the pig is the big question.

[@AniccaVataSankhara]

You may have done this but would you consider a 'How to change the rules to make Sons work in this game' episode?

[@VinceVenturella]

We did the episode already actually. :)

[@AniccaVataSankhara]

@@VinceVenturella - excellent. I will go digging in the archives

[@azoxystrobin]

Just starting watching the video....Who is this Tom fellow? He must be new. Fortunately Tyler is here as usual :) :) :)

[@spatzilly]

First! Try that on for size. Time to watch away the pain of late night eating.

[@toddashley407]

I think I might be done focusing on the main AoS game looking at this GHB (and its evolution from past ones) I will be frank - I believe the main game keeps progressing in a direction that with each GHB leans more and more into power creep for specific factions over and over again. Thus its frustrating for me to put time into hobby on a faction that either too broken (in that its overpowered) or continual gets nerfed - both are not fun and lack strategic elements to produce satisfying games. It wouldn't be so bad if it were easier to switch factions from a hobby perspective. I feel the main game is at this point where you have engage in the trade of armies you have not built and painted if you want to be competitive across the GHBs as they release. In short you have to be able to jump from faction to faction to fully engage competitively in my view. So my future AoS gameplay will be focused on Warcry where I feel gives much more flexibility with a better more constrained, and stategic rules set that isn't constantly shook up. Its a ton more fun for me frankly. I will still be able to play the main game but it will no longer be my competitive focus anymore as I will no longer be doing hobby for it nor will I be getting "pre-made" armies from elsewhere in order to be truly competitive bevause my hobby production simply can't keep up. In light of this as a competitive Warcry player.... Its way past time for main game organizers to divorce themselves from the event scheduling for Warcry competetive events at events. The schedule of serious Warcry players shouldn't have to work around the main game - where as a result we are seeing Warcry events occurring at odd times like on weekdays at events like Nova, Adepticon, Gencon, ect.

[@rmulshine]

If you don’t take AA and your opponent does then the hero phase gets tilted. Top players that are not running null stones I think will have a mandatory AA battalion.

[@theredwizard9634]

Great show as always, but I want to see some more rage about losing Veterans Battalion- so many units back on the shelf

[@VinceVenturella]

Well, we got the coherency fix to solve a lot of it today!

[@TheGeppywizard]

Of course the list I'm most happy with for my Gitz rn has wizards, but not the RIGHT wizards; so I get to use basically zero of the specials this season unless I rework a huge chunk of what I'm playing. Oh well, I guess if my squigs eat their wizards quickly enough, I don't have to worry about it. ;)

[@dinmacxan]

Like for "point-less conversation"

[@thegrayestofsons8079]

I like disagreeing Tyler, as well

[@MrDavs1985]

I agree with Tyler. I feel like this season is bringing everyone closer to the middle

[@LordBillygoat]

So not good times for Lumineth then?

[@dannythompson9642]

👍👍

[@MrDavs1985]

Vance really likes robuts….

[@nickthompson6642]

The rumor engine looks like a Rat Ogor arm

[@VinceVenturella]

Someone mentioned Hell Pit Abomination arm, and that does look similar.

[@tesina21]

Backbone Tyler is kinda hot

[@blighboy1]

"wizards explode" should be a core rule. Wizards in general should be more fun than "roll 2d6 to do something many models can just do for free"

[@aaroncraig7744]

As a person with three duardin armies, I really feel disappointed about this season. It feels to me that for the next year, I'm going to be basically on the backfoot every game since I can't really interact with what this season is trying to do (outside of bringing in allies). I REALLY wish GW would stop making unit-type specific seasons, it's so frustrating.

[@Juicyjim57]

For my local meta, this is too much change. I average 2-3 games a month and I'm one of the more active players. Lots of new people, lots of casuals who focus on a different system. The concensus on the core of 3rd ed has been overwhelmingly positive, but the crazy shifts created by the new GHBs, and the extra complications (for often little effect) ends up being a real hurdle for a lot of folks.

[@markpandelidis2079]

Id also like to point out that there's some clear contradictions like saying that it's too heavy a change, but also isn't touching everyone. The armies are so diverse that youre never going to have something that touches everyone. And I also disagree that it doesn't because the primal dice are available to everyone including armies that make use of arcane tome. And THE army that can't use arcane tome literally has half a dozen other unbind options available. So I think some of the view points are being way too critical.

[@VinceVenturella]

It’s heavy and it doesn’t touch everyone isn’t a contradiction, it’s a simple fact. Which is why you don’t want it heavy. Your second point is correct, things will always effect armies iniquitously when you change base rules, and to an extent, that’s a good thing, it allows some other units and armies to shift around. When you know that AND make it heavy, then the effect it has becomes outsized. Those it’s helping it really does so, those it’s hurting it really does so. Knowing you have unequal distribution is why you’d want a lighter pack (as we had for most of 1.0 and 2.0)

[@markpandelidis2079]

If expropriation is an F (which it is) Then lead the assault is a Z. Wasn't usable at all in 75% of thr maps

[@HotelAlex87]

What is your opinion about Master of Magic and the primal dice? Can I turn the dice and add a primal dice Kairos becomes very powerful. If I can't add a primal dice, one of the most powerful wizzards in the season of wizzards becomes useless. Sounds weird too

[@Scarycrow89]

I think you need to choose between a re-roll or a primal dice. So Lords of Change can't use primal dice I think, if they can't choose between changing the dice or add a primal dice.

[@VinceVenturella]

The Lord of CHanges Mastery of Magic doesn't count as a reroll (unless I am missing something) so you could do that and then add Primal dice.

[@nikjkeenan2866]

Actually pessimistic about new GHB balance wise. Why buff armies that are already strong?

[@markpandelidis2079]

It will be anti magic dom. Trust me. I know they're kind of tip toeing around it. But it will be anti magic dom

[@nikjkeenan2866]

@@markpandelidis2079 And that is because why?

[@markpandelidis2079]

@@nikjkeenan2866 unbinding has more information. If your opponent chooses to use no primal dice or 1 you can unbind with 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 without any penalty. Casting will have a 33% chance of removing your second cast. So double cast wizards will be less valuable. Meaning armies will be focused on single cast, reducing your total number of casts to almost a max of 6 (if your entire hero roster is wizards. Which is not likely.) Tzeench being almost the only exception that might be more than 6. Additionally the more magic is prevalent, the more anti magic will be taken. For example, I'm a Kruleboyz player, Gobsprakk is an auto include all season. He's going to be doing D6 mortals X2 every round or shutting the magic down by making my opponent not even bother casting.

[@davidcampbell621]

I definitely disagree with vince's take on mid-bad magic armies being worse. I'm posting from post FAQ where you can't stack rerolls and primal dice, but many of those armies only have 1-2 spells they really care about, and throwing all your primal dice behind something like hand of gork, on a caster where you don't care about the consequences seems like an improvement to just rolling 2 dice and praying. Also the magic dom armies don't really need the boost, the billionaires get richer, but they were already so rich it doesn't change the outcomes.

[@fitzgigler]

This whole edition feels kind of squandered by the GHBs. I mean don't get me wrong, I've had fun, but Galletian veterans/champions, the monster season, this new Shadow Wizard Money Gang (we denying spells 😈), just kind of fell flat for me. I dread a year of all my wizards paying extra points for their spells that will rarely, if ever, go off. Feels like a lot of missed potential with 3rd edition. the core rules are so strong, why do we have to deviate from them so much every season?

[@AmongRocks]

PRIMAL!

[@markpandelidis2079]

Hmmm....sorry.... disagree with the rules being too heavy. Play the base game then. The GHB is supposed to be competitive. It's a tournament pack. It's supposed to bring different army compositions to the forefront. Competitive players have multiple armies. This is end game content. This isn't entry level. You've been playing for a while if you're playing GHB. Or your intentions are to play at tournament levels. Play the base game if you don't want the realm rules. I'm not in agreement at all.

[@cyriltournier]

Not sure I understand your point. More rules doesn't equal better rules nor does it translate to a more competitive environment. Balanced and streamlined rules are more conductive to competitive play imo. To me these ghbs look more like testing grounds for 4th edition than competitive rulesets.

[@markpandelidis2079]

@@cyriltournier there isn't more rules. There's no realm command this time. It's a fully new GHB so of course there's going to be more changes vs the last season because the last season was broken into 2. If you do the math over how many changes were done overall in the entire year, this is less than last season. Everything can be considered play testing for the future. That's a mute point. The 6 month formula was rejected by the community, that was play testing. Battle plans, battle tactics, rules, abilities, grand strategies. All of it. I stand by my opinion that if you don't want to have more complicated rules then don't play competitively.

[@VinceVenturella]

I’m okay with different compositions and environments. It’s a question of how strong you have to be with that. Soft rules, small incentives, simple changes and solid battle plans and battle tactics can do the same thing without being so much extra. I am not opposed to this type of stuff in a narrative supplement, it just feels like a lot for the matched play standard pack.

[@everythingturns]

"Competitive players getting bored after 6 months..." Oof, that statement gives me the creepy-crawlies. The manner in which GW is already catering to keep the competitive crowd appeased, jeeze, stop playing so much then! ; ) Seriously though, the game is already packing a lot of complexity for the MAJORITY of the casual gamers which makes up the bulk of the warhammer player crowd. If anything we need more time to really get stuck into an edition. So glad they bumped out the GHB back to an annual publication.

[@Sniggelen]

Thanks for the episode. My honest opinion is that these last GHBs have been hot garbage, so I stopped buying them. Hope AoS get the 40k treatment.

[@nickthompson6642]

I don’t like the new GHB because I want to play my faction, not the GHB.

[@YetiLord]

ngl Toms bs is getting pretty old. I'm just trying to enjoy the episode and then there's long pauses or phone noises and he treats it like a joke.

[@VinceVenturella]

I am going to talk to him about the dings

[@Aki777craft]

TURN OFF Yo PhONe!!! But let me hit this fat rip off my vape