New Index Emperor's Children Rules Dropped: kinda Rubbish but Hint at Things to Come...

[@FrankSGuerra]

It's not rubbish, and it's not not-rubbish. It's basically nothing.

[@johnwalton287]

That makes it rubbish

[@carna-9501]

Its less than nothing! - Gravity Falls

[@gstellar96]

I really hope they do Emperor's Children right when they release officially

[@ragnarokivae6136]

I hope they'll do it better than world eaters...

[@drunkenastarte5243]

@@ragnarokivae6136 Luckily for EC players, that's one helluva low bar to step over! ;-) 1 Primarch, 3 infantry kits and 1 mounted character... that's all WE's got. Even 1kSons got more love than that! How much we want to bet WE's don't even get a release this edition?

[@ragnarokivae6136]

@@drunkenastarte5243 I think WE will most likely got the Berzerker surgeon that was teased a lot but I agree with you. I also wanted to start a WE army, but I don't like the eightbound and there are no unique Terminators atm. I really hope GW will release red butchers, Berzerker Cav, lord on foot and deamon engines

[@krilc]

They wont, it'll have all the same mistakes as World eaters rushed out at the end of 10th, you'll have 3 months to play and then time for 11th ed

[@zamnodorszk7898]

Former World Eaters player here, who lost A LOT of minis in the "release": Don't get your hopes up.

[@DaveMcMuffin]

I see this as a way of telling people not to play Emperor's Children until it is its own army.

[@roboflex3162]

im sorry. i wished for an army with a lot of noise marines. i should have known that monkeys paw was cursed.

[@seth4x4]

I'm the guy with 60 noise marines, and this sucks.

[@JordanR]

@seth4x4 You can still field those 60 noise marines

[@justaliteralgoat5639]

You wished for something that wasn't promised? Damn

[@JordanR]

@justaliteralgoat5639 Only other time this was done, the army in question got everything from relics and traits, to stratagems and an army rule. Wasn't an unreasonable expectation. Not as much fun as ignorant sarcasm, I guess.

[@humbertoharo6840]

@@JordanR this time they can use all stratagems from the codex itself which is much more options than if they got just one detachment.

[@memesofwarhemmer7076]

Emporer children codex: where is Eidolon where is he? GW: who?

[@bradylow5196]

If I’m not mistaken Eidolon gets clapped by a random iron hands captain in Wrath of Iron

[@Olsnapper]

@@bradylow5196 i read Eidolon still commands the majority of the legion, out there somewhere

[@JuaraHippie]

Julius Jaesaron gets defeated in Wrath of Iron but is a Daemon Prince so just banished.

[@bradylow5196]

@@JuaraHippie ah, it’s been a while since I’ve read the book, just knew it was one of the heresy era emperors children captains

[@tabplays4839]

​@@bradylow5196 He got better, Fabius gave him his head back.

[@leeksveeks4572]

They said in the preview it was pretty much going to be a datasheet for Lucius and Noise Marines? I think everyone fooled themselves into thinking it was going to be more.

[@owensmith2995]

What was the point of even moving them to an index though. Like it’s just chaos space marines but Lucius has to be in your army. At least give us a teaser like a detachment rule rather than just moving data sheets around

[@justaliteralgoat5639]

@@owensmith2995 It's hinting at a more complete release later. They're clearly working on it since they had to make it an index instead of being baked into the CSM codex

[@JoshBorlase]

It will come with two detachments. 1. Fast 2. Loud

[@SarajevoKyoto]

You forgot 3. Hard and 4. Heavy

[@teejay1646]

God I hope they have actual variety and flavour and don't just feel like Drukhari

[@SarajevoKyoto]

@teejay1646 I'm maybe a bit concerned there as well. The other three legions all have a certain identity, whether it be slow & durable debuffing DG, psyker-heavy 1k Sons or Oops All Melee WE. I'm betting they'll lean into the "rock n roll" part of EC, although the sex and drugs aren't completely off the table.

[@teejay1646]

@@SarajevoKyoto Yeah I'm hoping it's a good combo of fast flanker units, good AoE spells/abilities based on music and some solid tanky options that keep things distinct from the elf factions that already for that vibe

[@seth4x4]

They took my sonic helbrute, didnt even give him legends rules, and now that my rules are here, he's still missing. They really must hate me.

[@albertofrankdiaz6664]

"GW is real, and he hated us"

[@web_082]

yup they specifically hate you. nobody else. just you.

[@Chris-jl6vp]

As a Tsons player missing their psychic dreadnought while the blood angels still get theirs, join the club.

[@disastrousdwarf]

@@Chris-jl6vp As a GK player, also missing a box boi ;-; why did they kill the doom glaive dread we have fuck all anyway, and it could have a heavy psycannon and some nice melee...

[@crayven]

No model no rules ...

[@rutherfordappraisal258]

For all the people complaining, can you not just settle down for a minute and think? Any problems here can pretty easily be addressed by the development team in the next FAQ by further nerfing AdMech. Sheesh.

[@noelnovoalorenzo4361]

Best index in 10th 10/10 made me cry

[@brettmal5298]

Admech is jealous lol

[@Ynwell_theslaaneshi]

That fucking index is just “I dunno, buy the csm to see what you get dumbass”

[@Cannonhead]

​@@brettmal5298Oh yeah, I would kill a man if my AdMech could get the, um (looks at index), uhhh...Heretic Astartes keyword?

[@sheilasherret9596]

​@@Cannonheadthat would at least be funny

[@northerner3861]

GW: Okay, so it's not ready yet, but- Us: WE WANT EC! GW: ... Fine, have this half-baked cake and shaddup, do you have any idea how long it took for World Eaters to be a real army? Now excuse me, I gotta go back to locking unit options and raising prices...

[@F0RS00TH]

I would argue it is very much not what advertised. They said they would be issuing an "index", not 2 data sheets. An index has been established to contain faction rules and detachment information.

[@bloodfest8510]

Agreed, this isn't an index, it's 2 sheets and restrictions.

[@humbertoharo6840]

Its exactly what they said it would have: lucius and noise marines, dark pacrs as army rule, stipulation to use the codex detachments.

[@F0RS00TH]

@@humbertoharo6840 The official blurb says "gives you the army rules you need to run them". That is not accurate. The army rule says "see Codex: Chaos Space Marines". That is not the rules to run the faction. That is instructions to buy a different book.

[@humbertoharo6840]

@@F0RS00TH the article says to use sark pacts, which are printed for free in csm index.

[@F0RS00TH]

@@humbertoharo6840 I assume you do not play CSM, but the rule in the free index is not the current rule in the Codex. They changed how the pact mechanic functions.

[@andrewcarter4458]

And now we wait another year or two for a codex and a handful of new EC minis.

[@Gnarlf]

But we will get Fulgrim though 😅😔😭

[@stephennorako1807]

This index is so bad i now expect the codex this Christmas

[@kronksstronkstonks6360]

They looked at GSC Brood Brothers and went "do this but in reverse. I want the entire army to have less flexibility, not the added units." or in other words "Do this but more shit."

[@TotallyNotJustCynical]

Just FYI, you still can't take Abaddon with emperor's children as him and Lucius both have to be your warlord. Kinda interestingly though, you can take Vashtorr.

[@ngangkh]

Honestly it looks fine to me, especially since we can use the CSM detachments. I rather like the idea of Noisies taking -1 to wound at range while dancing about while melee Legionaries with Lucius and two heavy melee weapons go barreling in.

[@LordOffal]

This feels like the worst of all worlds. As much as I want Emperor’s children to be treated the same as the other god specific legions it seems like they should be a start of edition release so that the base chaos codex can come out after and you don’t relegate a faction to detachmentless index. Chaos marines always needs to be an early index due to popularity but this solution just seems awkward.

[@Dragonage2ftw]

Why should popular factions always come early?

[@LordOffal]

@@Dragonage2ftw They shouldn’t, there’s arguements to be made for less popular factions to go first but I’d probably say conventional wisdom would put be to service where there is higher demand first.

[@justink2426]

I've always loved the aesthetic of emperor's children, and there's a shop on etsy with a decent range of stylized, although somewhat nsfw, e.c. units and chaos prince. Very much looking forward to making an army of them whether they're good or not on the table :D

[@dillonhansen3839]

Man I was looking forward to having some unique rules and possibly even some model rule changes...my pain is immeasurable and it's not pleasurable

[@michaelstythax137]

Fanbase: so emperor's children have two units.... GW: Genestealer cults big brain boy Fanbase: Luscious canonically doesn't want to be a warlord... GW: Cannoness but flying Fanbase: Lord Eidolon...Julius kaesoron...Pleasure cults... GW: Female custodes

[@Aaron-wv5si]

GW via various WarCom articles: "hey, this is pretty much what the index will be" GW releases exactly what they said they would. 40k community: "WTF, where's the rest of it?!?!"

[@auspextactics]

There's definitely an element of that here haha

[@kazoie1]

I mean to be frank every other index came with a detachment and was more than 5 pages

[@Rosstafa]

@@kazoie1 This isn't a proper faction index - it's a placeholder for when they become a standalone faction. You can't compare it to the launch indexes.

[@britishrex5515]

​@@kazoie1that is true but this is def a stopgap index, even more so than the others. As EC started the edition as just part of csm, if they don't want it to be in the csm book in 0rep for the future release then this is sorta their best bet. It's effectively an addon to CSM to say 'here's some rules so you can use your slaanesh lads in game, proper support is on the way'

[@Aaron-wv5si]

@@kazoie1 Every other index was a stand-alone document released at the start of the edition. This index utilizes the CSM dex. It has access to a lot more detachments than the original indexes did, as well as just as many data sheets.

[@GeekControl2MajorTim]

The sonic dreadnought could be the amp for your rock band army

[@Fifthmiracle]

Man the good old days of the 3.5 Codex when you could put a Warp Amp on any vehicle.

[@KamenRiderGreed]

I don't know what we were expecting, I don't even know what I was expecting tbh. Considering what they did to World Eaters while they were stuck in the awkward limbo between their Codex and the release of the CSM Codex in 9th. But I know I wasnt expecting this.

[@justaliteralgoat5639]

I was expecting what they told us, which is exactly this.

[@tiberiumnp8030]

This is clearly a placeholder that had to be published because of how the CSM codex was done. Relax everybody. In all honesty, the ability to include any CSM unit within a god-specific chaos army already makes it so that EC has the biggest range available. 😅

[@silentascari2180]

Ironically it already has more unit access than world eaters 🤣

[@AxelsAndGears]

For a MILLISECOND there I reascended to Chaos.

[@Chunkypumpkinhead]

Noise Marines would be a ripping addition to Chaos Knight armies.

[@11AleZZ]

I think that James Workshop wants to compete with Two Page Rules, and this is the first of several Two Page Indexes

[@Pers0n97]

This datasheets are yet another perfect example as to how painfully stupid and objectively worst both for new and old players the "Power Level" of 10th is. There is literally no reason why ANYONE should ever take the bolter as a weapon for a noise marine when the sonic blaster is a flat upgrade over it. There is literally no reason for the champion to ever pick the chainsword, and barely any for them to pick the accursed weapon over the fist. The only thing that free wargear garbage is doing is creating traps for new players, and reducing army building options for experience players by making every "options" worthless. If only we could... yaknow, put a point price on wargear that represent an upgrade compared to the base loadout (like say, having the sonic blaster cost a tiny bit more than bolters, of have powerfist cost more than accursed weapon which in turn would cost more than the chainsword.... This is bad on every level and it was done to supposedly "help to streamline the army creation process", because apparently doing first grade elementary school math was such a massive hurdle that it stopped people from playing the game. Not having to pay thousands for plastic sprues. Not having to spend hours to build and paint minies. Not having to pay hundred for rules. Not having to learn the somewhat complicated rules for the game; No, the real problem here was to add the cost of all the minies in your unit and the cost of their wargears to find out the complete price of the unit. THAT was the biggest barrier to entry of this game. It also negatively impact the game as it forces you to run a maxes out loadout, often with as many special weapons as possible, which means that many different weapon profiles, which in turn makes every attack roll take that much longer and grind the game to crawl.

[@krilc]

Yep this ruined Plague marines fielding bolters and tbh same with csm legionaires, their own RULE tells you 'bolters are worthless, shooting with this unit is pointless, have melee buffs, run chainswords'

[@Pers0n97]

@@krilc Exactly! And it often force you to run a loadout with as many different weapon profiles as possible, which makes every attack roll take that much longer and grind the game to crawl.

[@aeaaea8113]

Just wanna say. If you count assembling and painting mini as a problem : just stop 40k. I m sure thats not the idea behind it, but listing the assembly and painting of the mini in what YOU consider something limiting to the access to the hobby whereas IT IS THE BASIS OF THE HOBBY is puzzling to say the least. That said I agree that the choice to go in no cost option was badly implemented. It could have been okay if the option were more well written and balanced but well GW is GW right ...

[@ngangkh]

Er, I don't take blastmasters cos I keep my 5-man Noisies mobile. Assault is pretty handy for dancing about to keep out of charge range.

[@ianunderwood1678]

@@aeaaea8113 You completely missed the point of his post.

[@Majere613]

My excitement is indescribable, largely because it doesn't exist. At least now when I use Lucius I have an excuse for why I've got the Mark of Slaanesh on a Vindicator.

[@willi526]

i love you auspex 0:02 seconds the new emperors children are out and there aweful, brutal OMEGALUL.

[@brettmal5298]

They justified paying someone to make this lol this is just a giant, why bother at this point…

[@Thomas-4222]

I mean it probably didn’t cost a lot for someone to write a “page” of rules (that basically just said to take slaanesh marks) and move over some datasheets

[@MetalCooking666]

Ranged noise marines would be good with renegade raiders for the extra -1AP. Melee ones are simply outclassed by legionaries

[@markhohenbrink5230]

Noise marines seem like a good combo for the Night Lords detachment. Shoot, cause leadership test, minus 1 because you have a unit nearby, then cause another check during the charge phase if they didnt already fail.

[@LordCrate-du8zm]

Interesting... Night Lords getting Noise Marine mercenaries sounds fun 👀

[@markhohenbrink5230]

@@LordCrate-du8zm also, Lucius giving standard Legionaires fights first is pretty good for punching up

[@Psykroids]

You're playing that illegally. First off new codex means you need to use the datasheets there. We are about 80% sure those noise marines would be most likely allied units. As mentioned here they also lose the Heretic Astartes keyword which means a lot of those strategems and rules may not work. Then there's the issue of any ability, statline, or point changes. Which makes it iffy to field since they are gone from the new codex. I mean good on your having the fun in your matches. But if I was your opponent I'd call it out right away. Sorry, but thems the brakes.

[@markhohenbrink5230]

@@Psykroids that's not how the Emperor's Children Index works. They gain the Heretic Astartes keyword if Lucius is your warlord.

[@Sk1pp3rR1p]

Genuinely been waiting for this for years, and I am fairly disappointed over the fact that they couldn't even be bothered to make an Army rule or a special detachment for them.

[@akumaking1]

It will be overpriced and underwhelming

[@Pers0n97]

And it may even be undercooked like the world eater that got less than "the bare minimum".

[@Lomhow]

And then nerfed when it gets popular

[@ericcarr1056]

Started collecting Emperors Children in 2022. I've spent at least 500 for just the Noise Marines (I have 25 total with 10 being the forgeworld models) I will be kinda bummed if all new models come out, but I'm still excited for the New Codex.

[@silentascari2180]

I mean it's exactly what they described no less and certainly no more.

[@BillWD]

EC's own codex coming seems even more likely now!!! YES!!! Now, time to prep to collect a lot of chaos minis without giving GW a penny. It can be done!

[@LordCrate-du8zm]

Lemme guess: -Recasters -Ebay -Yard sales -LGS -Goodwill(?)

[@BillWD]

@LordCrate-du8zm and a shed ton of kitbashing with green stuff. I've just reached the stage where I have practised enough to make my sculpting passable. Local games stores do of course share revenue with GW but at least GW don't get the sales traffic through their books directly.

[@damianwomack4668]

​​@LordCrate-du8zm Don't forget 3D printing. Gets better all the time and there are plenty of Slaanesh STLs and 3rd party models out there that put GW stuff to shame

[@ryansilver4212]

I feel like since they can take a detachment from CSM they would actually be pretty good in Dread Talons for the shooting to proc Battleshock

[@sheilasherret9596]

This is basically what I expected based on the original post. Doesn't mean I'm not salty that it's absolutely not for people new to the faction. They couldn't even be bothered to put 40k Lucius back into production lmao

[@maugetar9340]

Certainly not bloated. On top of that every Emperor's Childen army has now it's own Lucius the eternal 😅

[@NecroGoblin-yl2fx]

well it is basically just the Zealot detachment run as Slaanesh with Noise Marines

[@humbertoharo6840]

You can run any detachment in the codex.

[@Bagerkirby]

I'm honestly suprised they made an Aangron/Mortarion/Magnus scale daemon primarch model, and it was for 30k instead of 40k...

[@Tehstampede]

Even GW admits at this point 10ed needs homebrew rules to survive lol

[@korniestpatch]

Id use this as allies for my Slaanesh Deamons. That forcing battleshock on the noise marines is REALLY nice

[@wanderingigor]

I had to check what the WE index looked like when that dropped and damn they did EC dirty. No own army rule, No legion trait/detetchment rule, No relics and No warlord traits or stratagems. GW really went out of their way to not put any effort into this one.

[@thorfinndonar1717]

Dude when do you sleep? 😂 love the content!!

[@marcmiddleton2277]

I really hope we get an Eidolon type Chaos Lord with a Sonic Scream

[@zachdrake8564]

Honestly with the lack of effort in this and Lucius not even being purchasable, I wouldn’t be surprised if we EC players are rewarded with squatting at the end of this.

[@monkeyhammer]

I wonder if the noise marines will be the basic troops when they get their own codex or if they are a more elite unit. I think in the lore they are a bit rarer. Not that it really matters now there isn't a force org chart.

[@blindjustice5695]

Ngl since I've been playing chaos I've been playing them as a mono slaanesh Mark anyway, and if Lucuis is cheap then I'd love battleline noise marines

[@Celt1389]

As a Custodes player, this negativity makes me feel better. Custodes and Emperors Children players can all suffer together, welcome to the club!

[@KawaiiAzusa]

Noise Marines at least (still) seem to be good support for the Dread Talons detachment. Triggering Battle Shock in the shooting phase is ideal for their damage output. Of course triggering it in the enemies turn will always be best

[@f_evans_6694]

I dont think this can even be classed as an index at this point - its just CSM split into more files to deal with

[@erikanderson1223]

It was very misleading for them to say they'd be releasing an Emperor's Children index, that implied an army/detachment rule, stratagems & enhancements in order to play an Emperor's Children army. What they should have said was Lucius and Noise Marines won't be going Legends, you can still use their CSM index datasheets in matched play but they won't be getting any changes.

[@1005rhys]

Emperors Children codex is just going to be 3 models. And 1 of them is going to be an old CSM model.

[@baval5]

As a Crusade player them forcing a named character is wild to me.

[@BrandonGiordano]

I hope they nail the codex. I can definitely see them becoming popular like the other 3 main chaos armies. I think theyre cool tll but if they fuck it up Emperors Children could be DOA

[@derpyboi8591]

Literally all I was hoping for when our index got announced was unique detachment rule. Thats it. I wasnt expecting new models or rules. And yet, I am disappointed anyways. My EC are staying on the shelf until the full release

[@Caragoner]

I know they said this is all they were going to do. I wasn't even hyped (Nurgle and Khorne are my babies), and i was still underwhelmed. This just feels like they took a sledgehammer to both mini's knee caps for the next 2 years

[@eg.1803]

I really do hope to see them at the end of the year or start of the new year. I bought the new Chaos battleforce box and intend to paint them in EC scheme. It will be most glorious!

[@THEREALKILLERZAKJE]

you think a demon fulgrim model will come too when the codex comes out for emperors childeren. because i still find them lacking with unit variation

[@leguan278]

I just started a death guard army, god damn it. I was not thinking emperors children would come at some point

[@FrozenPyro06]

Fulgrim’s real beef with other primarchs would be Ferrus, Perty, and G-man/Dorn I guess? Not really looking like a loyal rival will come back

[@Rikalonius]

So If I wanted to build a 500 point Chaos Space Marine army, I could use a unit of 5 noise Marines with it?

[@DK-zl5gb]

Players will get the honor of purchasing the official codex at full-price a month or so before the end of 10th.

[@sandvich..]

I'm new to warhammer and I was hoping gamers workshop would make a codex and combat patrol for the salamanders

[@matramogram8836]

Hope the EC codex is good. I’m planning a loyalist ec army using HH models but I’d like to field them as traitors every once and a while just for the fun of it, swapping out some units for some sick ass noise marines

[@chrisbingley]

I can't help but think that GW are doing this backwards. Wouldn't it make more sense to remove Lucius and Noise Marines from the CSM Index. Then release an Emperor's Children codex, with the CSM codex being released later down the line.

[@FnRenner]

Wouldn't it be cool if when 10th ends and 11th starts GW rereleased all codexes? Like an edition omnibus for each army that didn't require pages of updates and nerfs. I know I'm just a dreamer and all that jazz

[@superh8925]

This is literally GW saying "if you have interest in starting Emperors Children, get started on painting your army now and youll have a head start when the codex drops"

[@teejay1646]

With what models??

[@teejay1646]

Are we just painting a bunch of Noise Marine sculpts that are older than I am??

[@alarak2159]

What’s the bets a load of people will head out to buy the old Lucius mini only for them to release a new one along with their Codex unveil? Good stock shifter I guess.

[@TabletopCitadel]

I'm over here with a seedling "EC" army, no Lucius model yet, and one Noise Marine model. Guess I'm just running CSM for a bit then.

[@silentascari2180]

Just proxy hard. Old marines aren't /too/ bad to buy second hand and Lucius' model is so ancient it would be better to proxy it anyway.

[@blackwolf671]

Its a long shot i know, But im really hoping for A new bike release, with mf'n DOOM RIDER to lead them, possibly as an alternate sculpt for a captain or psyker on bike.

[@darko-man8549]

So, I’m expected a half-assed codex with: Noise marines Terminators Lord mounted on seeker Fulgrim Fiend Marines Then everything else forgotten

[@MarkKnightSHG]

I'd love to see Slaanesh Cult Terminators again, and some of the units in HH getting updated for 40k (I mean, the Kakophoni are already Noise Marines) such as Palatine Blades, or units with the Phoenix Spears... but I daresay that's not gonna happen :(

[@Fifthmiracle]

With GW splitting 30K and 40K models and data sheets; its definitely not happening.

[@MarkKnightSHG]

@@Fifthmiracle I didn't mean the same ones, just 40k versions... Emperor's Children could really do with some new units if they're going to be their own army, and some 30k derived units could help there. Considering they're known for martial prowess, its odd how they're only known for sonic weapons... (not that I have an issue with those... )

[@kiraangle2823]

Shadowrun has done cross version expansions with say, 4th and 5th edition rules, they could do that, but they wont, it makes less money

[@18Krieger]

The Emperors Children get hopefully a few unique units. The roaster is lackluster.

[@Majere613]

In general, Lucius is pretty fun to play, whereas Noise Marines currently aren't. Legionaries unfortunately do better than them in melee, particularly if you pair Lucius with a Master of Execution for a truly mad amount of Precision that also has Fights First, which is a very nasty shock for enemy units with melee buff characters. In shooting... the Legionaries still tend to do better because they get two heavy weapons, unless you run the Noise Marines 5-strong to get more Blastmasters (here's hoping that still works!) Unfortunately the Blastmaster is a bit meh, like a better Missile Launcher, and the sonic blasters only really have weight of fire going for them.

[@christophersefton993]

It feels like all the armies are loosing power and it's a push for more battle line infantry

[@davethemagicweasel1]

Why are people surprised by this? This is the same treatment World Eaters got prior to full release so this is exactly what I expected for Emperor's Children, tho chucking in a detachment would've been nice.

[@JordanR]

Your memory is bad. World Eaters got an army rule, stratagems, relics, and warlord traits. White Dwarf issue 477. Go look it up.

[@tmarcb1296]

People are all riled up but it is really nearly identical to the world eaters release last edition. It's confirmation you will be getting your codex, which is hardly news at all. They're not going to dedicate much tone because they're busy writing the actual codex, they're not gonna to have it be crazy powerful because it would just become a gimmik for core csm. A year from now you'll likely have a fully completed codex and hopefully it will be cool enough to justify slaanesh being the worst chaos god, and also the wait i guess.

[@reginaldgickington4793]

I knew there wouldnt be any new datasheets, because its just a stopgap for the codex drop - but not even a DETACHMENT RULE? Oh brother...

[@mikelavigne1370]

Perfect timing for a Slaanesh release as Slaaneshi cultists are co-opting GW in real life.

[@ThKiller458]

I wonder what the official one will be like, the EC were renowned for being masters of all kinds of warfare so I think at least they would get reroll 1s to hit and wound. Maybe give them bonuses to character dueling especially?

[@Chefkraken]

LMAO the community collectively shat on GW for MONTHS at the beginning of 10th for giving Eldar too many rerolls with the Battle Host detachment because it made them statistically better than everything else in the game. Why would they do it again for EC?

[@ThKiller458]

@@Chefkraken why not?

[@urbani8231]

Quite eager for an EC codex to pair them with my slaanesh demons.

[@kennymartin5976]

Well, heres hoping the full army is a full line with different units. The do not deserve to be relegated to two units.

[@ryanturner3176]

This is a Band-aid... it was always going to be a band-aid. as far as band-aids goes, this is a fine band-aid.

[@stephennorako1807]

Its not a Band-aid… its a walmart brand adhesive strip. Its works… kinda 😂

[@Rosstafa]

People getting salty about this are silly. You've essentially been promised an army revamp this edition with a standalone codex. This index is necessary to separate the EC stuff from the CSM book ahead of that launch. It's just to tide you by until the full release. Be patient.

[@LordCrate-du8zm]

OMG yes! Finally! Someone with sense! I'm tired of AoS fans acting so smug that _their_ game is better and gatekeepers screaming about how 9th (despite everyone hating it before) was actually great all along, and GW should just do that again.

[@D4RK_FL4M3]

Yep you two are bang on

[@stephennorako1807]

But I thought complaining was the best part of 40k 😂.

[@silentascari2180]

The best part about is technically if you can bring all Heretic Astartes keyword that's 99% of the CSM codex aside from Khorne Lord of Skulls and Abbadon. We have more unit access than WE.

[@JordanR]

Literally nobody is confused by what this index is for. Not sure why you felt the need to explain like you figured out something significant.

[@sethjk8871]

They could also be splitting chaos demons up with the 4 mono god cults

[@Fifthmiracle]

Probably not this edition at least; but one can hope.

[@sethjk8871]

@@Fifthmiracle Demon rules surely cant be worse than last edition!

[@theodoreroosevelt3143]

It makes sense they are not in the codex, because they'll have their own codex

[@ima1hpwounder580]

This doesn’t seem like a bad thing, read over it and it basically is just a way to still use these models, it definitely could be worse. Personally it is good seeing gw at least acknowledge that these models will be apart of there own thing, rather then delete them from the game until they get a realise. I also think the reason they never do these things for edition changes is because edition changes are always bumpy, and having something as massive as a whole new faction drop on the start of 11th could go well, or horribly. I feel the doom posting can be cut back a bit, this shows that it is confirmed and that we will get something special

[@LordCrate-du8zm]

I suppose it’s decent for what it is. The codex HAS to be better though… the faction rule sucks and there isn’t even a unique detachment. There’s no special units aside from what we already have! Can’t we just have special Helbrutes or a Chaos Terminator reskin as a bonus? Two data sheets for the entire index isn’t just pathetic, it’s downright infuriating.

[@caboose759]

Im actually surprised it isnt as restricted as it is. I was under the impression you wouldnt be able to bring anything BUT Slaanesh yet having a few Undivided units could help us with shooting. Plus i can run Fabius Bile in with his old legion

[@LordCrate-du8zm]

That's a good idea. If Bile and Lucius are in the same army you could get some scary combos.

[@caboose759]

@@LordCrate-du8zm I'm a total nerd dude. I run Fabius with a Master of Executions I kitbashed to be Arian from the books. Those two in a block of Chosen can be very tanky and fun to throw at an objective. Meanwhile, I pile my Noise Marines into three Rhinos (2 units of 5 in each for double Blast Masters) and just mad max around the board with pillboxes.

[@kdhlkjhdlk]

The army requires you to field a unique character? That's the stupidest thing since unique characters. I guess there's only one small army of Emperor's Children out there.

[@mccahill34]

Yes disappointing - but maybe lots of Noise Marines with reavers and raiders detachment so they can run and gun is interesting? Having Lucius as the only warlord SUCKS though - the previous model was unappealing and isn't being sold currently. Yes there is the HH one which is okay but... ...I use a demon prince with my EC army (an 80s keeper of secrets) who was lots of fun with the mark of Slaanesh decapitating Orks.

[@HonoreOtter]

Wasn’t this addition supposed to be more balanced the 9th?! Oh James porkshop how could this have happened?

[@kyrridas1573]

i dont think anyone has ever been saying that. by the end of 9th, it wasnt perfect, but it was leaps and bounds better than 10th has been at any point.

[@krilc]

I remember when 9th was literally touted as "the most playtested edition of 40k" on the whc site

[@LordCrate-du8zm]

I remember at the start of the edition you all talked about how 9th sucked ass, and how 10th improved on it. You're all just jumping on the 10th hate bandwagon. Can't wait for 11th edition, where this all happens again and apparently 10th was the greatest edition ever and you all _actually_ really liked it, or something stupid like that.

[@uwesca6263]

​@@LordCrate-du8zmi am long enough in this hobby to remember the hate for every release in 7th edition and how utterly broken a lot of stuff is. With several armies who did not get their codex for severall editions. And now people will argue at lengths that it should never evolved passed that and that everything after 7th was the worst that could ever happen to the hobby. For some people the major hobby part of the hobby is complaining about it.

[@kyrridas1573]

@@LordCrate-du8zm i am not part of this fictional 'you all' that you're presenting. ive been against 10th since the moment they announced psychic was gone and points were being replaced by power level. you cant begin to fathom my disdain for this edition. im not even playing the game anymore, and am boycotting GW. not that it makes much difference, their current products are absolute garbage that i wouldnt have spent money on anyway.

[@syberwolfgames3639]

I’m very new to the game of war hammer and am interested in an Ultramarine army but all the ones I find are out of date and have too many points, I was wondering if you have advice for new lists

[@russs3741]

Has GW mentioned when the new CSM points will drop?

[@auspextactics]

No but will be either tomorrow or Thursday most likely.

[@dirtyblonde1011]

Am I imagining things, or did they nerf Lucius as well? I could have sworn that he came back after killing a single model, not an entire unit

[@Fifthmiracle]

No he's had to wipe the unit since the CSM Index at the start of the edition.