Newly discovered original letter from Archbishop Bugnini on the Agatha Christie indult 1971

#TLM #AgathaChristie #AnnibaleBugnini
www.fiuv.org/p/fifty-years-of-...
www.fiuv.org/p/the-marnau-peti...
M_P_Hazell/status...

[@dianewatts8841]

It was a revolution which harmed the faith. The intentions were false ecumenism as noted by many pre-Vatican II Popes. There was unity in the Liturgy, one could attend Mass in any nation and it would be the same Mass. All missals were translated into the local language. Let us not diminish the faith of our Catholic ancestors. They accomplished much.

[@deusvult2302]

Amen, as I think there are a lot more changes implemented such as eucharist to anyone even non-catholics, the ab*ortion stance, same gen*der blessings, the declaration that we are all worshipping the same God which is wrong! Dancing priests, openly g*a*y priests/entire seminaries, women priests, eucharistic minister ladies who even "bless", girl altar servers, dancing priests, the pro ab*option stance/vaxx mandates, etc., etc.! So yes the N O is absolutely unacceptable!

[@petermathieson2456]

Peter Mathieson convert 1963 will never change GOD Bless

[@MB-zn9vg]

I use my Italian missal, from the 50s (reprint of 1936 Dom Gaspare Lefebvre) in an American church. I love that if I went to some African Country, I could still use it and as for the homily, well, there’s Dom Gaspare’s commentary with the Church Fathers’ input in it. One Liturgy for the Roman Church. Amen

[@gtaylor178]

My Grandmother - born County Mayo 1903 came to Scotland at aged 14, her faith was very devotional and she could very clearly explain her reason for believing, her instructions to me and my siblings on the Sacrifice of Calvary re-enacted on the Altar at Mass were very clear. She taught us to sing Credo, she taught us the significance of the Sanctus and she prayed the Rosary ( it appeared to us children) all the time. She had no formal education but read the Latin and English Mass book at some parts of the Mass but mostly was in adoration and praise of The Holy Trinity and with the Intercession of Our Lady, St John the Baptist and St Michael the Arch-Angel. She was very respectful to clergy but she knelt to receive Our Lord despite the frankly - rudeness and arrogance of many clergy in Edinburgh under the wee O'Brien fakery ( when we were instructed by duplicitous and arrogant clergy to stand and receive in our hands). When we asked her about the changes in the Church, she used to smile and say Judas followed Our Lord and he looked like a true follower and he worked miracles but he was a wicked liar and deceiver. I often think of how grannys faith impacted our very large and dispersed family ( UK, America, New Zealand, Ireland and France) When children were instructed by the Scottish Bishops to receive the First Holy Communion standing and in their hands she would say the Devil is having sway. My granny died before hearing some of the unmemorable drivel I have heard clergy preach - the difference for me is the clergy are in way too many cases duplicitous people who say what they think you want to hear and then merrily carry on with their faithless agenda - I find it increasingly difficult to respect these men in costumes with "their" locked Churches and their non existent catechesis.

[@nifty1940]

From the 40's up to the prevat2 era, we were taught the true Catholic essentials, through our catechisms, re-enforced continually by religious instruction by Brothers, Nun's and Priests, enough to completely understand the true meaning of Holy Mass, and the Priest as the Sacrificial Offerer: the Priest, not man, was the Immolator, facing the central tabernacle. Because we didn't know Latin as a language, didn't mean we didn't understand the substance. Every school boy, and girl, read the English translation on the opposite page of the Latin Missal. We were not deprived, nor ignorant, as evidenced by the churches being full, as was the confessionals and well attended male Altar Servers. We did not need to be philosophers or theologian''s to grasp what devotion, reverence, respect and piety was. Faith was the underlying principle for the Catholic, irrespective of his Catholic education ability level. Those who hunger for the vernacular liturgy, pining to grasp its meaning and understanding, are less concerned with true spiritual faith and more to do with human intellectualism. Latin was universal and consistent, no matter where one attended. This is man-centred and not God-centred. This is what vat2 did: it broke the chain of religious educational foundation, into a fractured mess, to this very day, witnessed by closed churches, parishes and empty pews, with orthodox Priests being cancelled and driven from their flock. From the top down, the orthodox are now hounded, and gradually deprived of the visible means of their offering to God, the true Holy Mass, overwhelmed by its rival: a modern, liberal and (false) ecumenicism performed in too many different visible, and sacrilegious "liturgies".

[@nildarodriguez3974]

Good to know Agatha Christie was not a Catholic and certainly makes sense why the Pope from an ecumenical perspective approved their petition. However, I believe the ecumenical drive only served one purpose and that was to aid in the schism of the Church. Very few Protestants converted and the remaining Catholics accepted and have become Protestant like. I understand your great desire and effort to unite the people and possibly the form of the Mass, but in my humble opinion I don't think it will happen. The two are very different. During the Luther reformation hostilities ran high, and at that time the changes weren't as blatant as they are today. As a cradle Catholic I fortunately received a Traditional Confirmation. I lived through the crazy era of the sixties and seventies and at that time I stopped attending Mass. Later on I returned and accepted the changes because the leaders of the Church said it was so. I didn't question the changes and when I inquired about the original form I was told not to go there bad very bad. So I became the frog sitting in the pot slowly boiling away until one day the Holy Ghost moved me to to find a Traditional Chapel. Won't ever go back. Agatha Christie did what she did for the sake of the arts, but I have returned for the sake of my soul.

[@gwenewing6837]

Feeling the same with the same story.

[@carolphillips8802]

Yes. Most who attended Mass back then went to Mass because they were being obedient and faithful. They understood little, and probably didn't care about knowing so little..Praying the Rosary throughout Mass was common. I know many people of the older Traditional Mass generation who just want to understand what is being said, without having to read a translation. Sadly, what they don't seem to realise is that the New Mass, whilst still totally valid, is radically different from the Old. Much of the sacrificial worship and penitential tone of the Old has been removed. For my part, having attended the TLM regularly now for nearly 18 years, I can't imagine attending Mass in any other form....."I shall go in unto the altar of God..."

[@thecatholicman]

Indeed

[@janettedavis6627]

The Jewish Passover prayers that were said in the Temple in Jerusalem that Jesus attended with His Apostles on the night He was betrayed are in the Tridentine Mass. PaulV1 put it into the vernacular but over time the Church has been hyjacked by Imposters and Apostates and Hirelings hoping to unite all Protestants into it by Protestantising Catholics. The Novus Ordo Mass came out in 1987 Anglicans distributed it with authority of the Bishops. Should you say the same mass as your Pope. ?

[@janettedavis6627]

I wouldn't agree that people went to Mass because they were been obedient. I loved the Perpetual Sacrifice. My Mother left school at 14 yet loved going to Mass other family members loved Mass. I was gone shortly after by 1967 Mother left 6 years later others left by 1989 all left. Young ones in Dublin make Communion to go collecting money and dont go near any worship until Confirmation again for money. No Human can change the Sacraments instituted by Jesus Christ. The Jewish Passover prayers that were said in the Temple in Jerusalem that Jesus attended with His Apostles on the night He was betrayed are in the Tridentine Mass and are Perpetual and cant be changed. Since when can a Pope change Christs Death Prayers? Only the Jewish Passover Prayers cant be changed yes! What were the two world wars about? Communism? To get rid of His Church that was the one that was in at the time Tridentine Latin Mass Jewish Passover. They then settled for Protestantism by creating a Counterfeit a Subsidiary. In order for Rome to go out most Gentiles go His Own Church wont go until very end of time . Shortly after the Jews gain Israel the perpetual Sacrifice will be removed and the Abomination of Desolation replaced therin know you the end is near. Jews had true worship. They got Israel in 1948 then Hirelings, Imposters and Apostates and Hirelings took over formed Vatican2 the start of the hyjacked Church. Do not attend sacrilegious worship. So called priests dressed and acting as clowns. Girls dressed immodestly. If in doubt go to an Orthodox Church.

[@demtron]

I can't understand why they just didn't translate the TLM into English and have the mass in English. Why they had to create a whole new form of the mass when it wasn't necessary is beyond me, and why it got accepted is even further beyond my comprehension. The more that I have learned about the TLM the more I love it and can see how the focus in the NO has shifted away from God to man.

[@carolphillips8802]

@@janettedavis6627 That seemed to be my parents' reason. I used the word "most", but perhaps I should have used "many". I don't really know, because I am not them. I actually have no memory, whatsoever, of the TLM. I was born in 1958. I guess that the changes were slipped in so gradually that a youngish child noticed nothing.

[@valentinr.dominguez2892]

You are exactly right. We would not have the traditional mass if it weren't for Archbishop Lefevbre. If he had not elevated the issues confronting the church, the Vatican would not have reacted when it did. It was after his ordinations and subsequent excommunication, that the traditional Vatican approved traditional societies (FSSP, CKSP, etc.) came into existence. It was because of his courageous actions that the climate eventually evolved to the point the Summorum Pontificum came into existence. The horrible crisis that the church is experiencing today, would have occurred much earlier. Remember that Cardinal Bergoglio was the runner up to Cardinal Ratzinger after the death of Pope John Paul II.

[@Rosshannah1695]

Thanks for the upload, it is pertinent to note that non Catholic Christians could see the benefit and majesty of a mass that is almost two millennia old and still affects and draws people to it, to understand it today. I wonder if in 10/12 years time the Vatican will even bother to remember and celebrate the second millennia of Christ's death and resurrection, and not make an alphabet party out of it! On a frivolous side note, when I was protestant I loved "Father Ted" and it's irreverent look at Catholic matters....but I still remember the nuns coming to see him, because he gave good mass....2 to 3 hours! I assumed, and still do that it's a "thing", and them being pretty angry he rushed it. Now, not to take anything away, I like longer masses, never had a Latin one here in Scotland...but I really feel I'm missing out....it was good enough for the early church and church fathers, but not for us it seems, the language is changed to be more inclusive, even my niv Bible tells me because of modernity, they have changed the language because it offends women, etc...they don't want to explain what it really means and why....it's just offensive. It really looks like they are changing things to try and be a panoply of religions rolled in to one, to ape (copy) the church...you can fool all of the people some of the time, or some of the people all of the time...but not all of the people all of the time. Have a blessed Latha na sabaid from a dreich scotland. Deus Vult.

[@petermathieson2456]

Peter Mathieson convert 1963 God 🙏 Bless Latin mass

[@mairint1619]

Robert, I still use my missal, which I have used since school (Dominican) in Ireland 🇮🇪 in the mid 1950’s. Shows wear and tear of its age of course! The Latin Mass will again become the norm. No worry. Australia 🇦🇺

[@roseg1333]

I agree with almost everything you are saying but I have to say Catholics 50 years ago did know what was said in Latin Mass. children/teens all over the world were taught Latin in school. My mom was so upset because she was going to get to learn Latin and they stoped teaching Latin the year she was supposed to take it in Hight School 😅 Latin was taught everywhere so that everyone could understand it in any Mass anywhere in the world.

[@kateguilfoyle5155]

You are absolutely correct that this is a time of purification- even Traditionis Custodes made me aware that my love of the traditional Mass was more superficial than it should have been . The possibility that we could lose the Mass made me aware of how much I had taken for granted. Traditionis Custodes also caused me to compare the two Masses (something I had avoided prior to it because, like a lot of traditional Catholics, I was the opposite of divisive and wished everyone to like each other-cf., pope francis). The comparison made me aware that I would never attend a novus ordo Mass again - my vague sense of dissatisfaction had found an explanation when I had compared the two. As a child I had attended a Latin Mass at 6am each morning (on my own and without my parents). I was 9 years old, did not speak or understand Latin and our priest was uncharismatic, the church very plain (an old hall), and the Mass was very plain - it was probably one of those masses that are so disparaged by the V 2 sneery people. I loved it and I really felt that I was in the presence of our Lord and our Lady. Like every single person in my family (& most people I know), however, I drifted away from attending Mass when I was exposed solely to the novus ordo. However, I knew better and eventually was led back to the traditional Mass. I thank God for my blessings in having such a wonderful Mass. I’m sorry, but I do not share your generosity as regards those of the V2 Council fathers who orchestrated the novus ordo or ambiguities in the documents. I do, however, recognise that the ambiguities allowed changes to be brought in that were not contemplated by most of the prelates present. These ambiguities, to me, constitute a serious question as to the weight of those Council documents (at least when they are used to justify modernist changes). First, the Council documents were actually conservative. Secondly, such changes that were introduced were based on ambiguous interpretations of the documents- a ploy, obviously, but one that calls into question the weight of the documents as not reflecting decisions based upon truly informed consent by the Council fathers. Thirdly, the V 2 documents called for the retention of Latin and Gregorian chant - neither of which feature in the novus ordo. Further, the novus ordo was not presented to the council fathers and approved by the Magisterium- it was brought in in 1969, 5 years after the close of the council.

[@shadowstarr7]

Good morning from the US. I've heard about the Agatha Christie Indult and perhaps Cdl. Roche could find it himself with the help of a techie from the antiquated Internet Help Desk. What I found most inspiring though were your comments at the end. Enjoy a blessed Sunday 🙏

[@frankharrington8528]

The 'original'Latin Mass, pre 1955, was the Mass that our persecuted catholic,Gaelic and indigenous ancestors would have experienced at the Mass rocks.

[@patkerrigan1974]

I'm irish " if you couldn't tell by the name lol " yes irish Catholics risked there lives at the rock masses to live there and teach there children there religion , men would die for old mass ' priests would run on battle fields to give last rites to soldiers , boys wanted to be alter boys and was proud to do so , nuns taught the faith !!! Now what do we have ? Wake up roman Catholics and leave the novas ordo before you have lost everything " return to tradition !!!

[@davidstanton5587]

To think the way archbishop Lefebvre was treated for trying to save everything ....please have a look at chiesa viva :the diabolical secret of the new mass...on defeat modernism.(not for faint heart)well refrenced

[@hannahdavia8791]

Thank you for your wise words.

[@debbie2027]

So grateful I found you .... AMEN AMEN AMEN to your balanced perspective .... A breath of fresh air. .... God bless you !

[@nelditaroseong9659]

Thank you for sharing...looking forward for next videos...God bless..

[@gwenewing6837]

Thank you for clearing up what is going on and what lead to where we are. That is so true about how much more faithful Latin mass goers are now. I have learned so much about my faith since starting TLM 4 1/2 years ago. You are right, NO brought us to this sacred mass.

[@tompalm64]

I agree with you Robert. The new TLM movement is different from what came before. It’s a wonderful movement 🙏💕✝️!

[@deusvult2302]

Dear friend I am being YT-censored again. Did you forget the "slight" differences aside from the mass that the "new church" allows abortions, blesses same gender marriages, the Eucharist is given to them, to non catholics, by eucharistic ministers who even bless the person they give it to, women priests, abor*tion, unity with pagans, etc., etc.! Do I need continue?

[@arthurodea4978]

I like your gentle and conciliatory approach to the division in the Church. I cannot disagree that there were problems understanding the Faith in the past but how the Faith is coming alive through a renewal of the Traditional Latin Mass. People are grasping the beauty of what our Lord did in his passion, death and resurrection through the Mass beginning with His Agony in the Garden (the prayers at the foot of the altar) and how we are to shed ourselves of sin as we accompany the Lord to Calvary and the empty tomb. And to receive Him is an awesome joy but oh so humbling when put in proper perspective. Is that same understanding possible in the Novus Ordo Mass? Perhaps it is if I carry in my mind and heart what the Traditional Latin Mass reveals to me. In my 40 or 50 years of attending the Novus Ordo I never saw what I see now because of the Traditional Latin Mass. It breaks my heart to say this but the awesome reason for the Incarnation is so obscured within the Novus Ordo that I see that the only purpose of the Novus Ordo is to hear some Scripture (part I) and receive Holy Communion (part II). Sadly in my heart I know it is to be more, but the “more” is so obscured it can mean anything to anybody. At that point I have to ask myself is it worship of God or is it more about me? So why do we need both? It is obvious to me we don’t except perhaps, using an oft abused word these past 50 years, for pastoral reasons. For the same reasons that the Vatican allowed those so attached to the Traditional Latin Mass that they could not let go and remain Catholic, I presume there are many who would not let go of the N.O. Mass and remain in the Church. But I have to ask myself is it pastoral to allow fellow Catholics to continue to miss what the Mass truly is? The answer is: probably not . . . .

[@johnjon1823]

One problem, among many, is the making of an issue out of the celebration of the mass. Which as you rightly stated is supposed to be a sign of unity. The loss of Latin as a norm and the introduction of secular fashions of music and garb and such did not assist in unity, nor was the use of the vernacular necessarily an obstacle to unity. At one time, everywhere on the planet the mass was exactly the same for that day, and Latin being a dead language and language of the church allowed for commonality IMHO without cultural triumphalism for any ethnic group. In a sense, it was before Babel; today we are post the tower incident. While I support the old mass I do note that when one observes the disobedience that transpires in some places, one can see why the pope did what he did. Your recent video on the disobedient monks and that ordination and quite frankly the very disobedient actions of the LeFebvre character, whom you celebrate, merely have added to the weight of problems for those who advocate and desire the old form of the mass. I should like to point out, that your tacit indication that the "more intellectual" ones are involved with the Latin mass, from my perspective is both quite true, and quite exclusionary in its own way. That kind of ethos is also a problem. As for widespread ignorance and having only a devotional form of Catholicism in days past; I think you have overstated that, perhaps in your country it was so, in America not so much. The Baltimore Catechism was widely taught and you KNEW your faith. As far as defending it; we never needed to defend anything since Protestants are and were in such error and ignorance and were in their own clubs, it never came up. Indeed many practiced the Faith as Jews, living by this or that, but even then, the Faith was so widely practiced among Catholics that there remained, through the mid 1960's a Catholic atmosphere and ethos of such prevalence and power, that vocations did quite well until 1967. The praying of the Rosary during mass was indeed a thing, but by a few only. On the whole in the US the people were exceedingly well catechized and had been so for generations; this may have been due to anti-Catholic bigotry and general Protestant power brokering, which they did indeed have. So, we were a tad insular, we had a Catholic Ghetto, and that Ghetto was a good thing. Very good indeed. Obedience to the hierarchy IS essential, if one has his monastery destroyed for lack of ordinations, SO BE IT; one does not follow Jesus by trickery nor pretense nor does one decide things not within his jurisdiction. Disobedience is not merely the hallmark of errant Jesuits nor of fools in Germany, oh no, disobedience and division IS the hallmark of this rather Satanic moment. One should NOT contribute to division nor celebrate that which so does. The old mass is not somehow rejuvenated from moribund usage in the 1960's it STILL needs repair. It just does. It needs organic changes, which can hardly happen in the current climate. As for abuses in the new mass, they are many, quite often, quite ugly. But as I have said before He was born in a barn. As for the first mass - a more humble setting for ignorant attendees could hardly be imagined, and the first guy to leave mass early portends quite a few things. There is no unity without submission to authority, unless you wish to be Protestant. Hierarchy matters, it represents the Godhead. As the man is head of the family and the wife submits, so it mirrors the Father and the obedience of Christ IN UNITY. There is no fecundity without unity; there is no growth in the church without unity. No fruit from division except death. The apostles exist among us. They have the authority. The one with the keys has the keys.

[@valentinr.dominguez2892]

The authority of a pope in not absolute. He cannot add, delete or modify Holy Scripture. A pope can be challenged by his cardinals if he is leading the church into heresy. There is such a thing as fraternal correction.

[@johnjon1823]

@@valentinr.dominguez2892 Yes there are indeed limits for him and for the laity in terms of authority and mission. He has the keys, nobody else. He has his limits and we have ours. He is an apostle we are sheep. As for heretics, they usually deny the pope his keys, they make bishops without his permission. They make their own divorces, they make their own religions. They do all that just like Protestants... for a more "authentic" church, more "faithful" to Christ, all while denying the keys. People make lots of accusations these days, accusations are not the same as truth or reality. There are those who say this or that about prelates and when it's not outright calumny it is very often detraction. Either by soft inferences, or loud ones. Subtle or brutal, it's all out there. They rip down the offices, and they attack authority. It goes on in politics and in the church. The left at least has finesse about it; so-called or self-proclaimed label makers who use the moniker of traditionalist are often in their own rebellion. Plenty of rebellion to go around in the name of things authentic or reform. There should be ONE label: Catholic. Not traditionalist, not LGB crap, not anything but Catholic, and for all the scandal prelates do by commission and omission; 9 times out of 10, the so-called reformers merely add to the scandal and division, while destroying the offices they say they wish to uphold. The situation and most all of the reaction to is quite diabolical.

[@LUIS-ox1bv]

Pope Francis issued Traditiones Custodes principally because he detests traditional Catholicism and anything that relates to it. It's interesting at this very late stage in the game, that people persist in referring to Francis as if he's shy of being a semblance of a conventional Pontiff, when all he has done, since his election, is behave quite the opposite. Calls for unity prove futile when the very head of the Church he represents, not only rejects the titles, emblems and obligations of his office, but fails to defend the Faith. The loss of faith, and apostasy prophesied on the part of the clergy at the pinnacle of the Church, is vividly on full display every day. Francis has proven to be an abomination, and that also applies to many of his hirelings, advisors, Cardinals and Bishops , who carry out an agenda more aligned with goals of the NWO, then the mission commanded by the Invisible Head of the Church Himself. Francis exalts in the dynamics of confusion and chaos, and his Pontifacy reflects this very clearly. Is it any wonder why the number of those who question the conclave and legitimacy of this renegade Pope, continues to increase.

[@paulreedy9415]

As an American from the 1950's, I can corroborate that the same desperate attempts to occupy the time of Mass took place here , especially at Low Mass: saying of rosaries, reading of devotions in English. But one day my Grandmother said, when I noted all this, "Sure, you're right, but we want to at least talk to God in our own language." I kept this in mind when, a few years later, I was at Loyola University in Chicago. Debate raged about the "Vernacular Movement." Fast forward, in spite of the Council we see that the debate survives. On the other hand, we have news film to prove that 2500 Bishops sat and debated sincerely all the changes for about five years, and, with the Holy Spirit, gave us the results. Isn't that just the way Councils are supposed to work? Yes, yes, but, they never have! Each one reflects the thinking of its own age on the subject. So I thank you for helping the process along as you are, in the way you do.

[@kashu66]

Regarding that era and Bugnini, I would recommend the book "A Bitter Trial" a collection of letters between Cardinal James Heenan (our last 'Catholic' cardinal) and Evelyn Waugh ( a convert) about the dreadful changes taking place in the Roman Catholic Church. It was not only the non-Catholic Agatha Christie but other prominent non-Catholics. God Help Us!!

[@finallythere100]

for sharing, I will check out the book. Have you read AA1025? It's authenticity is up for speculation, but it corroborates greatly with the reported accounts from Bella Dodd, and one would have to have had incredible foresight to have written this back then if it were not authentic. The little book also contains the Alta Vendita, which you probably already have read, and is a must-read!

[@blancaguerra4006]

Thank you for that great insight , I love both , and I have been blessed to go where a priest celebrates the new mass with great revereance,, but felt like I was" betraying the latin mass" If you will. Again thank you.

[@rc3088]

Thank you

[@caedanjennings]

Fair play it is good to have the Missil and the English Latin side by side is brill. But I know too bringing people into the church it is easier to bring them into novus ordo. Well done sir.

[@niamhosullivan1291]

TLM, 12.00 pm Sunday's St Peter and Paul's, Cork

[@josephwagner3224]

Your comments about the Swiss experience of the Mass in several languages reminds me of what I see here in Texas. Spanish and even Czech Mass along with English. At the TLM, everyone is together in the the Latin, all together and not separated out.

[@marriedkiwi]

My orthodox friends and Muslim ones recognise God in the traditional Latin Mass. Pope Francis only sees trouble

[@djpalindrome]

Paul the Sad One had more regard for a famous non-Catholic than for his entire flock. Yet another reason his is the most disastrous Papacy since the Renaissance, save for Bergoglio’s

[@thecatholicman]

Paul VI was left in an impossible situation. I really feel for him in many ways

[@dwightschrute900]

How come? Just curious.

[@TheLeonhamm]

A beautiful word to a tired world - genuine devotion - for, provided that the permission does not disturb or damage the general community of the faithful, every offering of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is intended to be an act of genuine devotion, a sacrament of union, and .. in and of itself .. a special occasion. Yes, the Lord God had, and has still, a purpose for chastising us .. the Faithful (not just the clergy alone) .. not because we are not faithful to Him, we are, or desire to be so, but because at times our preferred level of fidelity can become a tad lazy. Getting up that wee bit earlier, packing the family up and bundling away in search of a hole-in-the-wall/ off the beaten track/ special altar-rock Sacrifice of the Mass (now in the TLM form), and seeking to understand why this is necessary (for the whole world and his wife), also how we may defend it, intelligently, is .. like it or not .. rather good for us; indeed the ordinary manner of putting together/ or re-inventing the New Order of the Mass, and more especially its woeful distortions and abuses, woke up some intelligent souls to the then looming reality (back in the day); yet by the grace of God many more are now beginning to wake up, small as the number may still be, to the actual need for - genuine devotion, sacramental union, and the sense of a special occasion (without disturbance of or damage to others) AKA Catholicism. Shocking isn't it. Keep the Faith; tell the truth, shame the devil, and let the devil. God bless. ;o)

[@janettedavis6627]

How can anyone change Calvary. The Jewish Passover prayers that were said in the Temple in Jerusalem that Jesus attended with His Apostles on the night He was betrayed are in the Tridentine Mass.

[@TheLeonhamm]

@@janettedavis6627 Very true, J D. In faith and fact, it cannot be changed, yet wicked men can seek to change how it is perceived - by the Faithful (if we allow them to do it). Keep the Faith; tell the truth, shame the devil, and let the demons shriek. God bless. ;o)

[@demtron]

The Noves Ordo is not immune to short masses. We have some in my area where the weekday mass is less than 15 minutes and the Sunday mass is less than 30 minutes. No homily or just a sentence or two. One priest whispers the cannon so you have no idea if he is saying the whole Eurchrist prayer or leaving parts off, another reminds me of the guy from the Fed Ex. commercials.

[@thecatholicman]

Indeed Ken, I know

[@charlesfarley5736]

Saint Pius the V, the Mass can never to abrogated. In fact, as your know, there is an anathema placed ANYONE WHO WOULD TRY TO CHANGE OR TRY TO ELEMINATE. THE MASS OF THE APOSTELS.

[@MB-zn9vg]

You mention that it only impacted the Roman Rite, when was the Ambrosian one turned into NO? It’s my hometown’s. I always respond to people who claim the Roman Latin Mass was an innovation at Trent, which is obviously false, that we know of the Ambrosian Rite at least from the 4th century, and that they probably couldn’t tell it apart from the Roman. And that too was novusordized. But when?

[@donbrook3117]

I wholly endorse your proposal for the two orders to coexist in the same liturgical books. The Holy Spirit is acting!🙏🏻♥️✨

[@JudeMalachi]

I would agree with you with some caveats. Let's recognize that the Roman rite is the Vetus Ordo, and the Novus Ordo is a new liturgy. Consequently, let's take the Roman cannon, aka Eucharistic prayer number one, out of the Novus Ordo since no one ever says it anyway, and then print missals that have the Roman Rite and the new rite with its three new Eucharistic prayers, all in the same one Missal.

[@maryshannon7551]

I don’t know why both forms cannot be available.

[@alswann2702]

Because the Novo Grosso is a new religion opposed to Catholicism.

[@timfronimos459]

Traditional Latin Mass aka Tridentine Masd is a re-entering into, across time and space, the Sacrifice of Jesus Christ on Calvary for the atonement of sin and glorification of God. The Pauline Mass aka Novus Ordo is a communal celebration of the Last Supper purposefully stripped of any symbols, actions, words and rituals that communicate the theology of the Roman Mass, the Traditional Latin Mass. The liberal, modernist elements in Catholic clergy desired to a create a new liturgy more acceptable to Protestants. It failed to attract anyone. The New Mass CAN be prayed in conformity to the traditional Mass but over the last 50 years of course it is the exception. The New Mass is valid and licit according to Church officials. That's way above my pay grade. I hope this helps

[@nildarodriguez3974]

That's a good question for the Pope.

[@el-sig2249]

Very true about real participation at mass rather than praying the rosary, which was a poor use of both the mass and the rosary. Their intentions for redesigning the altar to look like a masonic lodge were evil. Similarly, Protestantization of the liturgy is also evil. It doesn't bring back the Protestants like it was supposed to, rather it makes them feel justified and contemptuous. As a catechist I can say that those who came back did so mostly from a desire for the Eucharist.

[@josephwagner3224]

Reminds me of Acts 5:34-39 "But one in the council rising up, a Pharisee, named Gamaliel, a doctor of the law, respected by all the people, commanded the men to be put forth a little while. [35] And he said to them: Ye men of Israel, take heed to yourselves what you intend to do, as touching these men. [36] For before these days rose up Theodas, affirming himself to be somebody, to whom a number of men, about four hundred, joined themselves: who was slain; and all that believed him were scattered, and brought to nothing. [37] After this man, rose up Judas of Galilee, in the days of the enrolling, and drew away the people after him: he also perished; and all, even as many as consented to him, were dispersed. [38] And now, therefore, I say to you, refrain from these men, and let them alone; for if this council or this work be of men, it will come to nought; [39] But if it be of God, you cannot overthrow it, lest perhaps you be found even to fight against God. And they consented to him." Looking at NOM vs the TLM and the differences are astounding. As we say in Texas, "If your Mass ain't cryin', it's dyin'." So many young families with multiple children. And the sounds of their little voices in the Cathedral is so wonderful! Thank God for the availability of the TLM here.

[@vincenzo7505]

When liturgical life is a bit of a banner of division, there is the odor of the devil, the deceiver. It is not possible to worship God and at the same time make the liturgy a battlefield.

[@thecatholicman]

We have had 50 years of division in the Latin Rite. In fact the catholic mass now has never been so divided. The catholic mass used to be a profound sign of unity worldwide.

[@dwightschrute900]

Yes Vincenzo, modernist laity are very guilty of this.

[@deusvult2302]

Very true modernists have created this! No traditional Catholic has ever tried to extinct the Novus Ordo.

[@davidstanton5587]

Also Check out father Paul Kramer and his works and talks on u tube father Kramer works with sspx MC and is very knowledgeable in traditional Catholic teaching and he explains the significance of the last 50 years ...also he will tell you straight out who it is who attacks the church...

[@jaybig360]

You don’t believe that the lack of religious nuns and priest is because they changed the mass. ?- great video

[@briandelaney9710]

No. It was because of secularism

[@jaybig360]

@@briandelaney9710 secularism of the world or the church ?

[@johantrenier1685]

St. Pius X; “Pray the Mass” ….use all senses. Read, listen, cultivate emotion. Know why you are there. The days of being spoon fed are over. Re-Catechize yourselves to tradition. Find out.

[@rosegardenrosaries]

Still do think NO was created to suit the world

[@StormySwan]

I must share this observation, what is most troubling is how many people refuse to see the unrelenting spiritual war that has been waged to collapse the Church. The Roman Catholic Church was united in the Latin rite, we could all prayed together no matter what language we spoke. It has survived 2000 years by passing down traditions, devotionals, penance, and repentance. Through simplicity and by obedience, it saved souls. A master’s degree was not required. Jesus taught in parables for the “common” folks to understand commandments and beatitudes. That’s how our grandparents and previous generations worshipped and believed. Now you opine there was something lacking there? Really? V2 had to come to save the Church? You claim we need to hold hands and sing Kumbaya with V2 while it has obscured the roots of our faith. You may not realize how grave the effects of the contradictions and chaos have been. As for the fruits it bore five decades later, our Holy Mother Church is unrecognizable and divided. The attack on the traditional mass is having an impact on people who were deceived and now we struggle to contain the flood gates of errors for the sake of many already lost souls. Sitting on the fence is always dangerous, you don’t know which side pulls you over. ✝️🙏🏻

[@CDiaz9302]

Bugnini, PRIMO DE BUGBUNNY, BATBUNNY Y TRAGANTINI

[@djpalindrome]

The stonecutter Mass, unlike the Apostolic Mass which formed countless Saints for 1,500 years, was not the product of centuries of organic development. It was concocted by a committee of academic liturgists relying on shoddy mid-twentieth-century scholarship

[@charlesfarley5736]

LET US HOPE THAT IRELAND WILL ONCE MORE RETURN TO THE FAITH. THE LAND THAT BROUGHT CATHOLICISM.

[@breakthroughmadeinusa9184]

SSPX

[@djpalindrome]

The very document AB Roach said did not exist

[@thecatholicman]

Indeed. Now we have the original letter, but I think there were copies circulating

[@dwightschrute900]

So was AB Roch lying?

[@kateguilfoyle5155]

@@dwightschrute900 never…

[@gtaylor178]

@@dwightschrute900 Roche is just one of the many faithless men in costume this man on St Peter's Chair surrounds himself with, they are the ideologues stuck in the 60's degeneracy, duplicitousness and faithlessness. Their owned sense of superiority and all knowingness is clericalism personified and they have their "heroes" in St Peter's House at present.

[@dwightschrute900]

@@kateguilfoyle5155 OH KATE!!!

[@a.t.c.3862]

Every indult was an act of loving kindness from the Holy See; from St. Paul VI, St. John Paul II, and Benedict XVI and every one of them was thrown back in their faces. It's time for the old Mass in Latin to be completely abrogated, if it hasn't already been.