News On GW's First Old World Event & New Army List Restrictions - Warhammer The Old World - Fantasy

[@TheGreatBookofGrudges]

Would HIGHLU recommend you adopt the rule of 3 in your casual play by the way it makes things a LOT better and no more £600 coper meme lists lol

[@popetaintiv7809]

Highlu

[@Orlunu]

Would HIGHLU suggest you don't and just use common decency instead. If it makes a lot of sense for them to have more than three of a unit (ork mobs?), then don't oppose it, if it doesn't (endless choppers), then do. Let's not repeat banning air cav from 40k just because we don't want to bother thinking.

[@DM-ICE]

@@Orlunu Nah. Rule of 3 ftw.

[@popetaintiv7809]

@@Orlunu calm down

[@timothyharnedy4495]

@@Orlunu - I agree. Rule of three is super-annoying in 40K particularly where it limits some armies heavily - Orks for example are limited to three battlewagons, and three deff dreads - but not others - like space marines who have several different types of Land Raider or Dreadnought, so the rule of three really doesn't apply.

[@ThorOdinson]

I’m more interested in tournaments run by others. Then we can see the legacy armies in those tournaments.

[@Crivicus]

I am actually glad they didn't put it in the rulebook. The rule of three should be a house rule to be used on top of the standard rules and that is GWs house rule for the event. I say this because other places/events might have other house rules that don't work with the rule of three. Think along the lines of an event where you want a swarm of troops like a horde event. Making it a part of the standard rules makes house/event rules more difficult to explain. Having to say oh by the way we are ignoring this list of rules may cause confusion, instead the event can just say we are putting a rule of 3 into effect, or a rule of 4 or a completely different rule like a minimum 6 infantry (for a horde). Adding it to the standard rules also puts newcomers off from trying odd or themed army lists that can really make the game fun when you are just starting out and just playing casual games.

[@commentarytalk1446]

You're right. In this "official" tournament: The Rule of 3, it's about encouraging a range of models in each list and perhaps overall that's an average mix up per army per match per player? I think the best outcome of this rule is that it stops players in effect trying to turn their armies into as many dice and dice rolls as possible to use a visual metaphor... Whereas these games should be about the models and why those specific models are involved as much as the dice or numbers behind those, that is to say infusing scenario rules or campaign rules or narrative or other idiosyncratic or "Flavour First" rules and as said "anything goes!" rules also if people like that eg The Cheese Must Flow to mix IPs.

[@ja37d-34]

it is annoying when you have four Spear Chukkas (yes that is what i call them).. Even GW used to have the same in old BRs etc..

[@harrybrass734]

I think rule of 3 works for everything apart from core, maybe something like 6 core units allowing things like goblin or zombie hordes to work better, I want to be able to use some 3 blocks of night goblins as my bows and 3 as my melee bricks, these rules wouldn't allow me to do that

[@musicalcharge]

100% agree

[@olympusgolemoflight7198]

Maybe give units like Skeletons and Night Goblins the Horde Keyword, which let's them go to 6 core units?

[@Captain_of_Nuln]

It seems a bit restrictive on orcs particularly, if you take a unit of 10 arrow boys and some savage orcs that leaves you with one more standard orc boyz mob, which even at 1500 points seems a bit miserly. Back in previous lists that would have been three different unit types and even then, once you are playing at 2000 points plus it seems a bit weird having a limit of three units of boyz.

[@musicalcharge]

@@Captain_of_Nuln yeah that was a mistake counting them as one unit type.

[@jimboonlyone]

As I have over 300 goblins does this mean I now need to field them as three 100 man units?

[@delphydragon]

This rule still doesnt fix Gyrocopter meme lists, and in fact just hurts other factions (namely alot of the Legacy factions, but some core ones too). 3 is just simply too little for Orcs and Goblins at 2k points (which mind you TOW works significantly better at the intervals like other people are saying, 1.5k and especially 2.5k due to how costly characters can get) where goblins are MEANT to be run in large amounts of units, and its especially bad because they folded in some previous units into a SINGLE unit option, now under the rule of 3 you cant have 3 orc boy mobs and 3 arrer boys, you can have one, the other, or a mix. Ultimately this just seems like a 40kification that doesnt do anything other than limit options across the board instead of fixing the few problem units (gyrocopters could have just had a 2 unit limit and 1-4 per unit)

[@Kothag]

Rule of 3 for 1500 points seems fine. But at 2000 points it may be a little restrictive in some cases. Example: I have an Orc army. Just Orcs and Black Orcs. No Goblins of any type, no snotlings, trolls or giants. I have 2 units of Orc Boyz with extra hand weapons 1 unit with spears and shields, and 1 unit with warbows that are my skirmishers. In a 1500 point game I could drop the 2nd unit of boyz with extra hand weapons, but I don't know what I'd do at 2000 points. It is a little frustrating since Arrer Boyz used to be a separate unit type, but I also see this as a problem of my own making. If I used goblins I could replace the arrer boyz with goblin archer skirmishers, and that actually might be more effective.

[@garyhorn2438]

Just need GW to deliver my pre-order now...

[@davidbrayne8278]

Yeah me too, thought I was the only one who hadn't had their order yet!

[@GarroLegionofOne]

They are also running a one day 1250points Warhammer old world tournament at Warhammer world in May. I’ll be taking my high elves too this one!

[@tuckerbad]

the guys at square based have been working out such things. 2000 pts rule of 3 although core is 6.

[@reidzalewski4563]

To be honest, I don’t think the rule of three is healthy for casual play, outside of the sub 1000 point scale. The issues we’re seeing aren’t 1 or 2 linchpin units being taken in 4-6 units, it’s entire lists composed of minimum size special choices. I think this has more to do with a low Core requirement of 25% than any necessary restriction on unit counts. Also, this is just an unfun solution to the problem at most points brackets, at 2000 points why in gods name should I *not* wear allowed to take 4 units of state troops, and be forced to take archers militia and missile troops instead? That’s arguably less thematic than the alternative. All the rule of three does is kill the possibility of running Minimum size or small size units in any reasonable quantity, which means forcing the horde meta that existed in 8th edition, which was always a bad state of the game already. Let people take meme lists to tourneys, most of them are not even that incredible as is, while the Gyrocopter list is impressive I hardly look at it and expect to be taken off the table, and feel that those Gyros are going to be clumped up such that they’ll be hampering their own movement anyways.

[@AnHourOfWolves]

Thanks for putting in all the work, it's appreciated. I started following you after all of the old world stuff started up and having your commentary on all of the news and releases has been a lot of fun and something I look forward to! Take a break for sure, you deserve it. Thanks again.

[@NisGaarde]

Thank you for your Old World coverage! It's really good and informative with good discussions as well. Keep it up! Also, I can't wait to see how you'll handle battle reports. Excited!

[@Amdor]

Im happy to see most matched play tournaments seem to be ignoring restriction of legends armies ;)

[@fredox999]

Not overly a fan of this kind of rule. Having run night goblin lists with 4+ units of night goblins in blocks of 30+, depending on weapons, I couldn't do that now. Unless you get a judge/tournament organiser to agree that the number of night goblin units being limited by the number of night goblin characters is equivalent to a 0-X per 1000 points rule. I'm not sure howthe ruling will be on that one. Another example from the Orc list is bolt throwers a 45 point model that is already limited 0-2 per 1000 points. Unless the 0-3 limit scales then why is 0-2 bolt throwers balanced at 1000 points and 0-4 isn't balanced at 2000 points?

[@discomute]

In fairness, O&G army list is not designed to be turned a solely NG army. That's your choice for flavour. I mean I completely agree and hopefully this will be sorted for future, but I feel like it's a reasonable oversight for a first tournament

[@timothyharnedy4495]

If the night goblin mobs had been listed as separate units, one with bows, and one with spears, and one with hand weapon and shield, then the rule of three would still let you have nine units. So it's very arbitrary, depending on how the list and the options for its troops was written. I don't know whether high elf spears or archers are separate unit entries, for example, I think Dark Elf warriors and repeater crossbows are separate unit entries. So the rule hits different armies very differently in a very arbitrary way.

[@fredox999]

Yep, as it stands now I'd happily argue the point that I could run 0-6 depending how many characters I pick. I'm assuming that the Night Goblin Chief listed in the army composition section should be Night Goblin Bosses as Chiefs don't exist. Simply put there needs to be some clarification.

[@daemonishere]

Anyone any clue if this rule of 3 also applies to characters? For example: a dark elf player bringing 10 assassins? A vampire counts player bringing 10 wights, but all spread over the max 3(!) number of units of the same type? Etc etc.

[@zargonfuture4046]

Don't care about any of this, just want to play and have fun not interested in tournaments and any of that rubbish. Rule of 3 makes sense to stop the cheezos though so good news.

[@jpf338]

Definitely this. That dwarf list looks so retarded xD

[@Mittens_Gaming]

I agree though maybe not applied to core.

[@acarrot589]

On the other hand tournament rules make casual play more balanced

[@reno239]

Why talk about it if you’re not going to bother? No one really cares it’s the internet

[@zargonfuture4046]

@@reno239 Had a hard day eh? Didn't realize I was not allowed to comment😒.

[@Malisteen]

wait, so the rule of 3 as written by this pack would still allow 6 great cannons at 2000 points, right? since the 0-3 rule only applies to units 'not otherwise limited' by your army list, and cannons are limited to 0-3 per 1,000 points, and thus 'are otherwise limited'?

[@norabder8816]

Does this apply to core? I feel 0-3 knights of the realm is going to hurt Bretonnian lists

[@joelkurowski7129]

Typically, core is limited to 6. 3 is for everything else.

[@spencerruston406]

If it is all units, doesn't sound too bad for 1500 point lists. If it was over 2k then I'd be concerned

[@professionaldork237]

This was very much my first thought. 3 units of Knights of the realm feels quite harsh

[@berg6562]

Just saying… if the unit size for gyro copters is 1-6 then is someone able to bring 18 in theory?

[@giuliorosoni9962]

Can someone explain what mercenaries are? Are they already in the game?

[@sirderik]

this tho creates huge issues for empire, or how does this interact with Regiment and detatchments? as like if you can only have 3 state empire units missile or melee each thats 6 max units you can field. which may sound fine to dwarfs and elfs but empire, we kinda use regiments to make out infantry more punchy...so no 4 melee 2 regs 2 detached, or no real dubble detachment.... yeah i don't approve that...core should be rule of 6 or regs should kinda aid this...because like i cant be unreasonable in asking to use regiments like i it is intended if you ask me.

[@Balevolt]

So I can only take 0-3 State Troops even though they are core. How am I gonna field my detachments?

[@Captain_of_Nuln]

Detachments are not included, if you see about half way down the page in italics at 1:30

[@Balevolt]

@@Captain_of_Nuln Oh, that still doesn't help that much since I usually take three units of Spearmen and a Unit of Halberdier in a 2000 point game. But, I don't have the book yet so maybe I'm missing something.

[@Captain_of_Nuln]

@@Balevolt I would personally just ignore it unless you are desperate to play in this competition. I can see the sense of it for special and rare, it seems a daft rule when you are talking about backbone of the army units.

[@Balevolt]

@@Captain_of_Nuln I probably will because my other army is dark elves anyway

[@dennismaddox3869]

So does that limit the 0-3 units in the book to 3 instances of that 3 making it legal for 9? An example is the Empire Great/Morter option is 0-3.

[@timothyharnedy4495]

Rules As Written the rule of three doesn't apply to cannons/mortars because they are already limited. Which means you can still have six cannons in a 2000 point list. Yay. Not.

[@Captain_of_Nuln]

I think they'd have been better off putting more sensible restrictions on things like gyrocopters in the first place. At 1500 points it's barely an issue anyway for most armies, but I wouldn't use rule of three for core personally. I can't be bothered with all the competitive side of things though, so if you're into that maybe it has some merit.

[@calebbarnhouse496]

I think the rule of 3 is good, but i dislike the way it encourages larger units of what you have, for instance the dwarf gyrocopter, you can take them in units of up to 6, so at max you can bring 18 gyrocopters plus 3 gyrobombers but you can't take 4 units of 2 gyrocopters which is a lot more reasonable to run I just think all in all the rule of 3 needs to have some exceptions where if all 3 units are under half the max size you can grab an extra unit you can pump up to at most half size, and then for units that can be ranged or melee, i would say that you should be able to take 2 of both

[@CommanderBohn]

That Gyro-list... [[RIDE OF THE VALKYRIES PLAYS]]

[@robertjokebr1480]

average kharadron overlords player right there

Glad they didn't put the rule of 3 in the main book.

[@timothyharnedy4495]

The rule of three is fine on anything that will make the game unfun for your opponent - like cannons, say, or lone eagles - but it's complete bullshit when applied to everything. It makes a Night Goblin-only army pretty hard to do, because it limits you to three Night Goblin mobs. It can be absurdly limiting for some other armies, because they have a single unit entry which then has multiple weapons options - like Empire state troops. And then, because Boar chariots and Wolf chariots are separate unit entries, an Orc & Goblin army can still have six chariots within the rule of three, but honestly that is taking the piss a bit. Is four wolf chariots - in a Goblin-only army - really worse than three wolf chariots and three boar chariots? I definitely think that players need to self-regulate, and not take the piss with their army lists in ways that would create unfun games for their opponent, but I really hope that the rule of three is not widely adhered to, because it kills a whole bunch of fun theming possibilities, as well as perfectly normal army compositions.

[@MrGunnar177]

This is a big issue for orcs and goblins

[@pie4apie827]

A lot of my local and tournaments in shops around me are ignoring the legacy rules and allowing anyone to bring any armies. I'm all for this.

[@bigjollyeammon]

I usually take 2 of whatever units I like, variety is the spice of life but redundancy is nice.

[@nicolasperel8026]

You seem pretty sure about Cathay and Kislev ^^

[@jaratt85]

I'm guilty, I've never understood why people don't take more jezzails as Skaven. Multiple units of 5 would be really smart, they are low cost and the most reliable Skaven weapon that also has the best range and if they misfire they are just out of the game instead of blowing up and taking all your surrounding models with them. That said the new rules have put a limit on how many you can field anyways... back in the heyday though there were no rules about how many you could take. The biggest downside was the monetary investment, I think they started off as $8 per team and then quickly went to $15/team around 6th edition and then they are now $60/3 teams so getting enough to field a good amount would be very expensive. Well they were limited in being War Machines and with force org you could only have 25% of your army be war machines but there was no saying you could only have 3 or something. Still 25% of a 2000pt army being 500pts, that's a LOT of jezzails (16) if you wanted to go purely with them when they were 30pts/team. (4th edition) I can't help but wonder if that'd limit the amount of fanatics you'd bring in a goblin army though.. The old standby was that you'd bring as many units of just regular night goblins as you could, as small as you could each with 3 fanatics in each unit and then night goblin archers with fanatics as well. My motto was "who needs magic items when you have fanatics?" (though magic items are reliable but you get great laughs from fanatics)

[@Labadamier]

I would love for the community to boycott this event by setting up tables in the parking lot and playing only legacy armies.

[@BattleHardenedGames]

Great to see 1500 points. Skewing lower makes sense.

[@Oiniane]

Awww... I was hoping to make full Jade Lancers army for cathay once they arrive, as in lore they occasionally sullied out to charge into kurgan encampments while they still mustering, to destroy the invasion before it would launch. I was also wondering about only flying army for cathay too, buut... the more I learn about the list making, the less likely either of these lists sound possible. I guess I have to wish for Jade Lanchers to be battleline, and with rule of 3, then the army will simply have to be small. While small is good for my wallet, it probably makes my old timer fantasy friends angry at me. xD

[@DerOrk]

This stuff has absolutely no place outside the tournament scene. Imagine wanting to preventing someone from fielding orc boys, savage orc boys, arrer boys and big uns alongside each other. Mental.

[@johnhughes2124]

Sounds reasonable that the rule of 3 is in place, also would tend to mitigate against Multiple Small Units which is nice. Although I do foresee some 'themed' gobo players moaning in the future about how difficult it to make a list of 3,000 points given how cheap gobos are.

[@Kothag]

At least goblins and Night Goblins are separate units. Orcs and Savage Orcs all count as Orc Mobz now.

[@timthorson52]

I think they'll find a good variation on the rule of three, especially when playing games above 2000 point limits. Maybe for every 1000 above, you allow an extra unit or two from core units.

[@captainferrite]

What interesting things can you do with Mercenaries allowance when there are no mercenaries in the game?

[@gstellar96]

That would currently be for Armies of infamy like Bretonnian Exiles that can be a border states bombard giving Bretonnia access to cannons

[@50043211]

What is wrong with 19 gyrocopters? 🤔 Its a perfect border patrol engagement.

[@calebbarnhouse496]

It's to many gyrocopters, now 18 gyrocopters and 3 gyrobombers is perfect

[@aterol4267]

Gyrocopter Welcome to Estalia Gentlemen list

[@nicolasperel8026]

It's sad that even with restrictions, we still can take for example 2 lords on dragon at 2000 pts. Way overpowered, not enough limitations...

[@elias1579]

Damn! How am I going to play 40K, AoS and ToW at LVO next year!

[@uruk_bye1232]

So now my list with 17 single model dragon ogres and two shaggoths is defunct. Gee, thanks GW. /s

[@gravy3907]

as if they are not already lazy bringing back wf and only so far bringing out a few new minis and just dusting off old minis jacking the cost up and telling us some of our much beloved armies wont be supported

[@shadeblackwolf1508]

This is excellent. If they were gonna limit race variety, this is a great way to compensate.

[@jamesrose198]

I hope someone shows up with a skaven list 😂

[@ProxyHammer1]

Thank Isha they took notice and did something about it!

[@sib316uk]

Its sad but tree, some players gonna meme because there made that way

[@Grits420]

*Sigh* no hordes of goblins and no hordes of snotlings for match play

[@TheGreatBookofGrudges]

Goblins are a 0-1 unit so you can still spam them :)

[@pinch1loaf]

Too bad you can't put the engineer in a gyrocopter

[@brandonvancurler6863]

NO THAN YOU. Hate the rule.

[@nathanstruble2177]

Yeah not at all interested in GW events, if there aren't Vampires I ain't paying attention

[@Eric-f7x5b]

Just looked at the new bretonnian novel it's all woke trash. Over priced models and woke setting no think u. I'm sticking to mantics kings of war for the price of a gw army I can get two,paint and gas money left.

[@JohnnyH5]

Glad that GW has implemented this rule, stops all the "I must win at all costs" gamers.