Nikon Z8 - Dynamic Range (With RED Komodo & Canon R5C Comparisons)

[@qamstel]

Z8 is really a Swiss army knife of a camera… it holds up so well for video against video centric cameras and yet is one of the best photography cameras on the market right now. I can’t wait until Nikon start producing cineline lenses. This will be sick

[@DaddyM7MD]

You're super underrated man, I really mean it.

[@Josh_Sattin]

Thank you so much for the kind words!

[@DaddyM7MD]

@@Josh_Sattin ❤️❤️

[@paulengle5784]

This.

[@cammackey]

Once again great work Josh! Something I would love to see from this specific test, is running post noise reduction on them and then stretching them to see how much usable detail, dynamic range, and color info you can get once they're cleaned up. Thats always been one of my hacks when needing to stretch an image. Kinda odd to find out that a lot of filmmakers ignore noise reduction, it can act like a turbo boost for stretching the image. Also another cool test that ive been doing internally.. the 4K raw on the Nikon Z8.. I've been finding weird quirks with it. I'll message you. Would love to see your take on it.

[@Josh_Sattin]

Thanks again Cam! Great point about the noise reduction. I actually considered running some and comparing for this video, but the reality for me is that this was only the second video I've edited in Resolve in years so I am re-learning it. I plan on learning how to use noise reduction soon. I would like to include it in the next dynamic range video I make because I agree, it can be very useful. Yes, the 4K raw is intriguing and I actually reached out to Nikon for some technical information about it. Hit me up!

[@driziabdelkaderamine]

I'm glad that you included the OG in your comparisons, really interesting!

[@jakilahmoulien9070]

The Z8 has really nice colours. I like it better than the RED. If the Z8 shot 16bit that would be sick

[@jeffpainemedia]

I can't imagine how many gigs of video you have of yourself just staring into different camera models over the years to test the iso hahaha, but fr thank you for what you do bro!

[@Josh_Sattin]

You’re welcome. I wish I had someone better looking for you to have to look at. Haha. Thanks for watching!

[@lecolintube]

Thanks so much for the video. I’m really as to what the white papers for these cameras (or each companies codecs/RAW) say, and how ISO affects Dynamic Range (especially with dual ISO’s) on these. Obviously it’s not quite what your testing here - but it’s always interesting to see how you can lower ISO to retain more information in the shadows (at the expense of losing a couple of stops of dynamic range in the highlights), and how that might effect the noise results in these tests. But again this probably is more useful in setting up exposures for a shot/scene, rather than trying to measure the total dynamic range of a cameras sensor - but it could be useful information to know the ISO (and/or Base ISO) for each camera you’re shooting in. Thanks so much again for the video. 🧡

[@Josh_Sattin]

You're welcome. Unfortunately most of the white papers don't show how changing the ISO affects the dynamic range. I have seen this information published for Blackmagic cameras and some Sony cameras. I made this video a while ago about shooting off the base ISO: kzbin.info/www/bejne/d4jdon97a5mHsKs When I test dynamic range I always use the base ISO for the camera since it's the ISO that is recommended by the manufacturer and is designed to give you the best dynamic range performance. I used 800 for all three cameras in this video.

[@lecolintube]

@@Josh_Sattin Thanks so much Josh! And yep - your video linked here is what I was getting at - thanks & nicely done! I’ve really appreciated & benefited from Rubidium’s explanation too (from Crimson Engine) on ISO, Dynamic Range & Noise in shadows particularly in this video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/rprXZ4OvpNqdb6ssi=iT1cgV6KXP0AfzA4 Whilst he’s using the Canon C200, he’s talking about Canon Raw & shares (@ 2:34/chapter: ‘Exposure’) an ISO chart from one of Canon’s white papers. Whilst it is for Canon RAW, it’s on the C200 - though I believe it’d be the same/or very similar (or at least a great guide) for the R5C and what’s happening at Base ISO 800 - (and I believe it could be extrapolated out to the higher Base ISO 3200 on the R5C too - but don’t quote me on that 😜). Thanks so much again Josh! 🧡

[@lecolintube]

@@Josh_Sattin oh whoops, Rubidium also describes in this video here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/qaKpfZWbgtemmpIsi=y3iYRT_AjIV3LCYF (@ 0:30) That CLOG 2 (which is what the ISO chart from previously linked video was) is the native colour space of the sensor, so when you shoot Canon Raw, this is what the sensor is capturing. I also believe too that this is why DaVinci Resolve says Raw, shot on the R5 or R5C is CLOG 2 (because it’s the native colour space of the sensor) - despite neither camera having CLOG 2 as an option for this colour space. Hahaha maybe I need to, ‘dig up’ 😅

[@Zacheldridge]

Subbed, whatup man can't wait to watch you in the future.

[@jmbaillard7015]

The best Log I know is the Panasonic one ( S1H or Varicam LT, on which the EL zone system is implemented 👍 )

[@loudandclearmedia]

So many new friends. Well done, brother. Pushing and pulling aside, I know which one my eyeballs like.

[@Josh_Sattin]

Thanks Brian!

[@tptrsn]

Thank you for this Josh! So well done and very useful!!

[@Josh_Sattin]

You're welcome. Thanks for watching!

[@ts76751]

I’m wondering if the banding in the r5c is an issue with your copy. I’ve seen other reviews with push pull tests and dynamic range and they don’t show this banding. Have a look at Cined review of the r5c does not show any banding in the dynamic range test or the latitude test.

[@ts76751]

I just checked your previous dynamic range test from a different copy of the r5c you had a year ago. There isn’t banding in the push pull test. Maybe check if your current camera has a sensor issue. Thanks for the great content by the way 😊

[@bandeepriat6623]

Hey Josh, Superb information! Not gonna lie, no one else-whether on Reddit or KZbin-has gone this detailed with the Z8. I’m planning to buy a camera under 6K CAD. I love RAW and initially considered the C70, but its large form factor isn’t suitable for my daily use. I mostly shoot music videos. I have narrowed down my options to the FX3 and the Z8. I also considered the Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 6K Pro, which I love, but it lacks autofocus, making it hard for me as a solo shooter. Given that I’m getting the Z8 and the FX3 for almost the same price, which one do you think I should go for? I’m a bit confused and would appreciate your advice. Thanks!

[@Josh_Sattin]

You are very welcome and thank you for the kind words!

[@maxxh2197]

Did you find an answer for yourself? I'm contemplating between the same two cameras for video and possibly hybrid work (i do have a z6ii for photography though). For me it seems like nikon shows more promise for the future (z mount, red aquisition, firmware update policies), but the Fx3 seems almost unbeatable as it is definitely made for serious video work with great DR while providing a fantastically small and light form factor. I wouldn't mind still feeling my arms after a day of gimbal work...

[@bandeepriat6623]

I just got my Z8, and to be honest, it's very similar to the FX3 in terms of quality. However, the FX3 does have some perks. I do music videos and corporate videos, and I think the Z8 is perfect for my work. The key is good lighting. The only downside of the Z8 is that it requires good lighting because shadows tend to get noisy. I haven't shot in ProRes yet, but in RAW, the shadows are a bit noisy. However, this is totally manageable. Unlike the RAW footage from the Canon C70, you cannot change the ISO in Resolve for NIKON RAW footage. Overall, everything is good. The NIKON RAW is a bit confusing as it has saturation by default compared to other RAW formats, but everything can be corrected 100% in post. The best thing about the Z8 is that I only need to carry one camera for all my work, even though I don't take a lot of pictures. I ditched the FX3 because it's old now, and the C70 is too heavy for daily use, with average autofocus. Overall, the Z8 is the best compared to the FX3. You may want to get the FX3 if you care about the form factor and 16-bit RAW with an external monitor. But on one shoot, I used the Z8 as a B cam with the Komodo X and was able to match both footages easily. I would recommend renting both cameras and testing them out before making a decision. This way, you can see firsthand which one suits your needs best.

[@navarrog]

Would love to see a R5C test with the ISO shifted to 400-640 and see how the shadows perform vs the native being 800

[@MLee-vcrr]

Excellent tests man, thanks!

[@Josh_Sattin]

You're welcome. Thanks for watching!

[@nickalot]

can't believe i wasn't subscribed. swear i watched quite abit of your videos hahaha just subbed!!

[@Josh_Sattin]

Thanks for watching the videos and for the support!

[@zechenwei1139]

Amazing video as always! One question though: when you open N-RAW in DaVinci resolve, do you get the “highlight recovery” option? Many thanks!

[@psvdnm_new]

Only braw

[@jakubzieba6146]

Hey, really cool video. I watched it on my smartphone, and in my opinion, the R5C performed the best. I'm not sure if it's because of my phone or KZbin compression, but the R5C had the most consistent color in the shadows without that awful green or various color shades like the Komodo OG. Similarly, regarding the underexposure test, the blacks in the Nikon looked as though they were crushed, and there were no details in them that would allow for post-production image editing. I need to watch this test on a computer because it's possible that the small screen on the S23 Ultra just favored the Canon, haha.

[@amermeleitor]

Same here! Canon can maintain the colors, no color shifting.

[@brm3546]

have to agree.... watching this in a professional finishing suite with $30k monitors (acknowledging, of course, that we're beholden to KZbin).

[@williambuford6136]

@@amermeleitor What about the Canon color banding?

[@amermeleitor]

@@williambuford6136 not a big problem, only at high iso in dark places and maintaining consistent color

[@joshblck1]

I was thinking this too….but I thought it was just me lol

[@ChrisFlores22]

How does the z8 hold up in terms of image quality? I have loved shooting lumix because it hasn’t looked digital or sharp. It just looked great. Compared to an s1h, is the z8 to digital sharp? Dynamic range comparable? I’m leaving lumix since I got a Komodo og and looking for a solid b cam that can hang with the Komodo but also be a solid standalone hybrid camera. Thanks!

[@brettthemonster]

Great work once again!

[@Josh_Sattin]

Thank you!

[@johnclay7644]

very informative video

[@Josh_Sattin]

Glad you liked it. Thanks for watching!

[@lukaspictures]

So why would I shoot in raw vs h265 10 bit with Nikon Z8? Better color correction latitude?

[@cpanbalagan]

Great tests and very in-depth!! Now RED comodo and z8 are both from Nikon 👑 Z8 can only get better from here!! I wish nikon does some great cine lens... Canon R5C banding is terrifying

[@amitdutta8768]

Thanks Josh for the detailed comparison with Z8. I have also seen your other video on Z6iii dynamic range. Now, comparing Z8 with Z6iii on dynamic range, do you think Z8 has a huge superiority over Z6iii ?

[@Josh_Sattin]

Unfortunately I can't give a definitive statement about two cameras that I haven't directly tested against each other in the same testing environment.

[@TechSid-hn6eg]

wow Nikon N-raw and 10bit have such a big difference in noise levels... wth, i never even thought such a thing could happen

[@Framesbyfrisby]

For an all-around camera, would you recommend the Z8 over the Sony A7rv?

[@Horizons_Roses]

Color shift is huge on the Z8, lack of details and greenish tint in the lower end of signal. I'm camera agnostic but I find the R5C holding better in most situations : better details, less colorshifts.

[@junny908]

Hey, Josh, I have a question for you and will be much grateful if you answer and help me. I'm going to shoot short movie, for now I have restrained budget (obviously as all other short movies) and have a chance to rent only komodo 6k. While I have Z8 as my own camera. As I understand it right you have worked and tested both cameras, could you give an advice from your perspective, does it have a point to rent komodo 6k if it takes about 10-15% from my budget. I don't have rush scenes in the movie so GS is not of a big importance to me.

[@Josh_Sattin]

There is a lot that goes into a decision like that, especially with budget in mind and using the money for other expenses. My personal preference out of those two cameras would be to use the Komodo for narrative work based on the R3D codec and manipulation in post. You can make good stuff with either camera though.

[@LukeChristo]

I wish the R3 was included. It works so well.

[@kevindiossi]

Oddly enough, I think the R5 C had the overall best image quality in terms of sharpness, detail, color, etc. But the horizontal banding makes the shot unusable. This is something I experienced with my 5D Mark IV like 7+ years ago...so it's shocking that Canon sensors still have this problem. It's only when one side of the image has harsh highlights. It creates a streak across all the pixels along the readout row. The Z8 has a LOT of green and surprisingly very low detail. The Komodo may look better to a lot of people, and it certainly handles noise the best in these examples. But the colors are so odd. It's a mixture of green highlights and magenta shadows? I have exactly zero experience grading Nikon and RED, so this may be easy to correct.

[@barrywallisable]

There is a big element missing from your comparison which is vital to understand when comparing these cameras. Experienced Cinematographers understand that ISO affects dynamic range above and below mid-grey. At 100 ISO 2/3rds of the dynamic range is below mid-grey and conversely at higher ISOs the majority of the dynamic range is above mid-grey. So an experienced D.O.P. Will drop the ISO in dark shooting scenarios (which is counter to how Photographers work) so that they can capture more information in the darker areas and visa-versa in bright scenes. Also, there is a really easy and quick way to see the dynamic range of any footage from within Resolve. Load the Colour Page and expand out the HDR graph and you will see the image laid out as a histogram from light to dark in photographic stops. You can simply count the number of stops the extent covers. Works every time with no need for expensive equipment. Just make sure you are working in DWG.

[@Josh_Sattin]

I am well aware of manipulating the ISO to shift dynamic range to the highlights and shadows. I made a video about it a while ago: kzbin.info/www/bejne/d4jdon97a5mHsKs Dynamic range is about how much information you can capture at one time. The maximum dynamic range of a sensor is captured at the base ISO. That is why when I do a latitude test, I set the ISO to the base and then look at the extremes (shadows and highlights) to see how it can capture the dynamic range.

[@m.i.andersen8167]

As Josh Sattin writes: Max. dynamic range = base ISO. So it would give a lower than optimal dynamic range result at other ISOs. We are many experienced cinematographers who knows well what you write about using the ISO setting in different light conditions for the best result. But that's not what Josh Sattin fine video is about.

[@jppj4067]

try assimilate scratch with highlight recovery for the Z8 n-raw, you'll be surprised! I promess ;)

[@anirbanghose994]

Hey Josh, thanks for sharing the test results. I am wondering is this banding issue a common thing with R5C sensors for underexposed zones at 800 ISO? I understand RAW can be noisy, but this banding looks like some kind of sensor issue. Is it a normal behavior in your experience?

[@ts76751]

In cined’s review of the r5c there isn’t any banding. Wondering if this is a faulty sensor

[@RandumbTech]

They’re all good - could not tell the difference between any of them when properly exposed.

[@TylerEdwards]

Just wait for the KX shadows 😎

[@Josh_Sattin]

Looking forward to it!

[@jessejayphotography]

Should have thrown the X-H2S in there for fun.

[@Josh_Sattin]

I probably would have if I still had it.

[@loudandclearmedia]

@@Josh_Sattin womp womp

[@princeparmar101]

R5c❤

[@amermeleitor]

Even with banding in shadows i still prefer Canon. The R5C keep the colors when pulling and pushing the image a lot better (like at -4 and -5 stops at 8:17 ). But being realistic nobody would expose an image too bad to go into -5 stops... I still prefer Canon colors and the consistency when saving highlights or shadows

[@EricDejuanOOO]

That horizontal banding on the Canon, ouch.

[@ScottBalkum]

The R5C is much sharper of an image than the Z8. I’m not sure I like the sharper image either.

[@JoacimSchwartz]

To me it looks more like the focus is too far back. His ears and top of his cap looks like they are in focus.

[@Josh_Sattin]

Yeah it probably has to do with focus. Sometimes it is tough to do these tests by yourself. For the latitude test I focused on the test chart.

[@inthemoment8788]

I am shocked at how much sharper the R5C is and the Komodo too. It's a much cleaner image.

[@peterra2532]

The z8 seems out of focus on this test

[@mightygame9944]

No mannn, both the komodo and R5C performed well in -4, 5 stops than the Z8 man. The Z8 colors got broken and became red while others image got broken too but maintained their colors.

[@NickDelDuca]

R5C is such a trash camera. Canon should be ashamed.

[@anotherintrospekt6596]

Why?

[@NickDelDuca]

@@anotherintrospekt6596 It's worst in it's class in every category. Worst dynamic range, worst AF, worst codecs, worst framerate options in raw, worst battery life. Plus there are a bunch of weird bugs in the OS that they never worked out like focus peaking is broken, It's got compatibility issues with some lenses, the wifi and bluetooth radios are disabled so you can't control it with a smartphone. It's just a bottom tier camera.