Nintendo and the TRUTH about Smash Esports

[@Max-cl8mz]

can you use dark theme next time thank you

[@thefranChise1]

Sry will do next time

[@Sockren]

@@thefranChise1 do not. flex the fact your eye strength is better than them

[@tumultoustortellini]

get better eyes

[@lukethekuya]

@@Sockren Same here

[@pplord3170]

Sounds like a skill issue

[@SarignCleric]

I kinda want to echo off what ZeRo said in one of his videos: The Smash Community should follow The Pokémon Company's Play Pokémon format and separate age groups. Have them in separate areas. Middle School competition on one side, and they MUST have a parent or legal guardian with them and the 18+ on the other side. Do Swiss Rounds with Top Cut so that events don't go super late (even locals). Security must be there at all times. Sure, there will be two separate prize pools, but this way, you can follow Health and Safety protocols and people can play safely.

[@Fregler]

So interesting that only one fighting game community can't see the direct correlation that license = sponsors and then sponsors = money. Man I love the smash games but boy am I glad I left the scene years ago.

[@Fregler]

Love your work however, seeing people so pationate and dedicated to making the community better by adressing actual issues shows a small but strong glimmer of hope.

[@cd-ramos]

most sponsors are scared to work with non-nintendo licensed tournaments. Less sponsors = less money

[@paulflemister4737]

"It's not we didn't have security, it's that they left" - Gimr 🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂

[@philo2677]

I really don't understand what's the issue with this

[@dippin4dots]

​@@philo2677if your security left before the even is over, you need better security.

[@philo2677]

@@dippin4dots you don't get to pick security at most venues. The venue has contractors they work with.

[@philo2677]

@@dippin4dots also who gives a fuck about security anyway. Security is more about the venue covering its own ass than it is about safety. What do you really think is gonna happen?

[@DANCERcow]

4 security for your to 2,000 people lol yeah no wonder they left if this is even true!

[@nextos]

VGBC killed the smash scene no joke.

[@frosticle6409]

Not banning Nairo until Technicals stirred the pot comes to mind.

[@FlamingBasketballClub]

The fact that Jisu still has a presence in the Smash Bros community is insane.

[@arbalest327]

@@FlamingBasketballClub I mean, send her to a "smash event" with 7 black pookies.

[@bedroombunny9529]

There is a special kind of entitlement for a tournament to say "Fuck working with (Company that made the damn game)" in one breath and in the next to bitch and whinge that you have no support from them. It's a rule of ANY industry. If you want someone to add money to your event you have to give them a reason and saying "Fuck off" is probably not a good one.

[@lalehiandeity1649]

I genuinely wonder if they actually expect Nintendo to just throw free money at them.

[@glitchunicorn]

Why would Nintendo want to work with the "Smash Community" when it had a me too movement in 2020, pro players calling them out on not supporting them, and health and safety concerns?

[@Gearsio]

the fact that they still tried to give the community a bone after this and had it explode in their face says a lot about the state of this community

[@queuedjar4578]

The entire smash community did this to themselves. Nothing will move forward and nothing good will come out of any of this until they first learn some accountability for once, however that includes actually evolving emotionally beyond being children which is a tall order for 90% of those at the top of the scene.

[@RainbowAceOfSpades]

Smash Community: We want to be taken seriously, we want more support, we want more money Also smash community: Disregards health and safety, safe harbor for unsavory and inept figures, death threats, prejudice and discrimination, territorial grassroots, smash twitter and twitch chat Smash community is literally a spoiled man child.

[@albertwesker4729]

Don't forgetcondoning pedos

[@RainbowAceOfSpades]

@@albertwesker4729 oh yeah, that would be under unsavory figures

[@Honest_Mids_Masher]

Don't forget KZbin chat whenever a Nintendo direct is on. They are only interested in the new smash character and would call everything else garbage and would piss and shit if it was one they didn't like.

[@FlamingBasketballClub]

Leffen should be cancelled

[@carteljameson8395]

Although you have some points, I think the reason why this is the case is because the Smash competitive community has been left on their own. If a company like Nintendo doesn't support the competitive scene, it leaves the door open for the standards to be completely fucked. 20 years of being left to their own devices is what has done this. If Nintendo started supporting the competitive scene, I guarantee you the community would stop a lot of this nonsense and try to be on their best behavior so as not to piss off Nintendo. Especially after 20 years of no support from them.

[@StarlightEcho912]

The reason Panda couldn't live is because Smash Twitter didn't want it. Twitter is a cruel, miserable entity, and they decided PG, the beacon of Ultimate's community, was no longer good.

[@lalehiandeity1649]

Putting aside the whole Nairo thing, if Technicals was stirring up controversy then he deserved to be banned. Being disruptive at any kind of event is a standard banable offense.

[@StarlightEcho912]

@@lalehiandeity1649 I didn't know the whole context behind the Technicals controversy, though I've since been informed. Edited the parent comment.

[@Chocula]

The way tourists like Ludwig and MoistCritikal have vouched for guys like GimR and the VGBC while painting Technicals as some sort of villain will always rub me the wrong way. The way big names like Alpharad co-signed Nairo because he was one of the 4 people who saw the "Nairo documents" and get away with allowing an actual SP into the community is so baffling. Gotta love the Smash community.

[@mds_main]

Precisely, I despise that too

[@HellCat_Kenny]

Ludwig isn’t a tourist tho, he’s from the melee scene and goes back years ago.

[@NimbusHero]

Lud is an ex melee player not to sure about charlie tho

[@BboP_]

@@NimbusHeroEx Melee player? I mean he isn’t a pro by any means, but he has certainly played the game himself in recent times. Not sure what the point of that claim is.

[@peaceonmars]

@@BboP_ He goes pretty far back, my dude. You're not a pro either, so why are you allowed a valid opinion but he is not?

[@swordmasterarie7752]

From Nintendo's point of view, why would they invest *money* into the Smash scene? What do *they* actually gain from that? From the Melee side of things, pretty much nothing - and then from the Ultimate side of things, only like 1% of people who bought the game even play competitively or follow the community (and that's being generous). Obviously it would be cool if more competitive players could make this into a job, but I just don't see why Nintendo has to care. They're doing perfectly fine without giving this big support to Smash, as much as people such as Hbox like to claim they're really not "missing out" on some big opportunity here

[@PoorStargazer]

Exactly, there is no reason to invest in competitive, which is why people are only asking for licensed events. That's all the community wants, but the community is ran by man children, not adults

[@dannysummers4591]

Smash Competitive scene lives in a bubble, they think Nintendo makes the games specifically for them instead of the party/family audience who are the real majority, and then act like they were betrayed when their demands aren't met.

[@albertwesker4729]

@@PoorStargazer And they support peods, so that's why nintneod says no

[@MewtwoStruckBack]

This might be slightly off track, but...if the competitive community has always had the mindset of "we don't need them, we can do it ourselves and always have", there's a solution for the community to get its top players paid from tournaments well enough to be able to not only survive but thrive at the upper levels - and it's called having prize pool contributions from players that are more than ten fucking dollars per player. Your local, yes, that should be 10bux. I'm not wanting to price the player out of being able to get into the scene and learn the game at a basic level. But the amount of money each player is expected to put into the pot should go up proportionate with the size of the event (and expected expenses to attend the event). At your local, you're driving there, or getting public transportation even, so raising that doesn't make sense. At a regional? Maybe some players are getting a hotel, a small number may do more involved travel - raising this from $10 to $25 per person going into the pot shoudn't be seen as gatekeeping the community. Major? Definitely there are people flying in, getting accommodations, food expenses, etc - all of that is budgeted for, so getting this to $50 wouldn't be unheard of. If someone's already paying a few hundred dollars to get to an event and everything involved, another $40 going into the prize pool shouldn't be considered enough to break anyone. A supermajor? For the same reasons, $100 should be the prize pool price point here. If someone wins a major, they should have enough to be set on bills/living expenses for a year. If someone wins a major, they should have at LEAST "down payment on a house" money WITHOUT the need for any sponsorships or money coming in from Nintendo. Would that be nice if it were coming in in addition to that? Sure! But the community should ABSOLUTELY be subsidizing its top talent with increased tournament fees and payouts beyond the local level as it ALREADY does with top players getting bits, subscriptions, superchats, direct tip donations, etc. from fans watching them on various streaming platforms. Nintendo doesn't need to care. The community should absolutely care that you have a player winning a large tournament where the prize money doesn't even cover what they paid to get there and back.

[@johangodojolo8652]

Thats true for like every competitive game ever tho. It's always going to be a small subset of people that play ultra competitively.

[@frosticle6409]

If Nintendo takes over, bans are falling. I’d add ESAM to the list because of how volatile he is.

[@albertwesker4729]

And the community is stupid cuz they want to keep leffen and it's pedos, so no

[@arbalest327]

ESAM, zero already retired even though most allegations were false, nairo would be banned, etc etc

[@iliya1933]

Volatile in what way?

[@frosticle6409]

@@iliya1933 ESAM swung with the victim support too hard. He supported victims before evidence and then it came out that some were lying.

[@cluelesslink16]

It would be heartbreaking to watch but if the community can't swallow it's pride and take the steps to work with Nintendo, it will inevitably die.

[@Kireita]

the smash community consists of kids that are in their 30's still thinking that they are playing games like the old days when it was still fresh, new and exciting. things have changed, there are rules now and its bigger than them and they dont want to accept it. i feel that this has been going on for far too long. i love smash always had, and i still remember the day i got my n64 copy of smash brothers. but goddamn these guys dont grow up!. always blaming the other, feeling entitled because 'I DID SOMETHING' and when there is finally some acknowledgement from the big N they all let it go to waste because greed... and lets not talk about all the scandals because goddamn... its just a mess. i agree, smash first needs to die like completely and then have it rise like a phoenix in unison as a true community. but that's my opinion.

[@notanexistingpersonsosorry]

This is the exact reason why I am choosing to stay far away from discussing anything with this community. I'm still going to play Smash and go to locals and some day maybe even majors, but I want to interact with this community as little as i can

[@mechashadow]

"la la la I can't hear you!"- Hungrybox probably

[@arbalest327]

Hbox is a deuce, especially after saying unban nairo and not blaming the community majority instead of Nintendo, used to love him, but seeing him now, he is the cuck the smash community said he is all along, just wasn't there when he was the underdog.

[@cvlcek144]

Not wanting Nintendo to be on board is massively stupid. If Nintendo were to agree to support a licensed circuit, God only knows how many sponsorships would jump on that opportunity. Meaning more money for the players, and the workers!

[@BloodruneEnt.]

Nintendo likely would not, Dr.Alan being a business man with a lot of experience behind them, which let him work with Nintendo because his brand focused on Esports and was profitable. Sponsors only jump in because they see they can get a big cut, Nintendo is going to want a big cut too and sponsors might not be privy unless the TOs agree to host with a massive prize pool. Nintendo does not have the logistics to even focus on Esports, that’s exactly what Panda Global provided for them, most Smash events not Panda Global aren’t really an Esport Business and they need to partner with sponsors like Fresh Cut, clearly a business that isn’t some Esports brand, makes Nintendo wary due to them not have the same experience Dr.Alan had. Yeah Dr.Alan probably didn’t have the best PR skills under his belt when trying to work with other TOs, but he was business oriented first, he can back up his professionalism. The other Smash hosts like VGBA lack the credentials, let alone the safety standards to make it work. Smash Grassroots scenes want to play modded Smash games to also advertise their events, which that’s a big no-no for Nintendo. The hard truth here is that if the Smash scene wants to work with Nintendo, they have sadly be as professional as how tournaments that host LoL and StarCraft Esports are done. Those people are squeaky clean in their mannerisms for how they got to conduct themselves, and the smash scene doesn’t want to be restricted to satisfy a company breathing down their backs. Just look at how GDQ has changed because they want to keep the sponsors on, their more strict with how Speedrunners have to present themselves at their events, changing what was a fun charity event that now lacks the soul and charm the older GDQ events used to have.

[@mitrikgaduk347]

I'm gonna be frank here, this community isn't exactly "family friendly". Yeah, if I was Nintendo, I wouldn't want to be associated with this community in the slightest. Hell, just imagine seeing some of these "players" in these tournaments and someone actually looking up the kind of disgusting shit they've done in the past. Yeah, that totally "family friendly" disgusting shit. Nah, like, the amount of it within this community is kinda scary, it's given the community a terrible reputation because of that, and it doesn't seem like it will ever change. I would rather have Nintendo just vet every single player and have their own personal tournaments and be done with it. You have a shitty or shady past that led to some "not so family friendly" events? Nope. Get out. Don't come back now, ya hear? Don't care about context, don't care about any of it, if you were involved, get out. The only occasions I'd disagree is with false allegations, but even then, I'd rather have the courts decide, people need to act like adults and lawyer up.

[@tardissins7512]

It definitely doesn’t help that the people most integrated into the “smash community” are the most toxic people you’ll ever meet.

[@bakedbuninvasion]

Lets all say it together "There is no such thing as a grassroots super major"

[@nahometesfay1112]

I mean Tipped Off 14 was pretty close...

[@bakedbuninvasion]

@@nahometesfay1112 >5k pot If you think anyone who can actually play video games is showing up for that you are mistaken, that is a video game convention casual tournament money. Inb4 they do it for the love of the game. Love of the game doesn't make you competive, and of melee offered any kind of money there wouldn't be a top ten player over 21, just like in actual competive games. Melee doesn't even get the "I couldn't hang in more competive games" players, they go to ult because that is where the money is. Just to put thing in perspective of how far it really is from being a super major, it far more than just the number of players. Melee will probably never have another super major, you have to have an actual circuit that pays out real money regularly before you can even consider your talent pool deep enough to have one.

[@nahometesfay1112]

@@bakedbuninvasion I'm not sure what your definition of a super major is but it seems to be quite different from any I've heard before. So are you saying Genesis 9 and The Big House 10 aren't supermajors? If so what melee tournaments do you think are super majors?

[@bakedbuninvasion]

@@nahometesfay1112 the people who make money off of attendance told you what there arbitrary definition of a super major is so that they can make said money. If you round up 500 random cs players with a handful of ranked teams, that not only will it not be considered a super major you would be laughed out of the room. The melee definition of super major is so loose that roblox makes ur mom jokes at melee's expense, thats how loose that is. Also nice naming majors that only have money because they run ult as the main game. "But they told me..." that not what they told the sponsors and sponsors asked to run ads for ult, not melee, they couldn't care less about a boomer game no one played anymore. Ur game is a competive joke, don't let the melee players/to's gaslight you.

[@nahometesfay1112]

@@bakedbuninvasion From a quick search (correct me if I'm wrong) it seems that CS doesn't have an official designation of super major, but their official definition for a major is tournaments with a million dollar prize pool. Obviously there has never been a Melee tournament with a million dollar prize pool and that is a metric no one has used to define super majors in Melee. Why put down Melee because other eSports have more money? By that logic why care about eSports when physical sports are so much bigger? Melee could benefit from some money and is thriving eSport. Both Genesis and TBH pay out using entry fees so Ultimate has no effect on Melee prize pools. Both tournaments existed before Ult, so I don't see why they'd be dependent on Ult. I'm sure Ultimate brings more sponsorship money, and grassroots model has proven itself as sustainable over the much longer history of Melee.

[@hunbi1875]

The fact that hbox doesnt realize that devs dont out of pocket fund tournaments is crazy. The way that tournaments work is that Nintendo licenses them so that sponsors feel secure investing, and the tournament both gets funds and the sponsors get their money back in advertisement.

[@samu1414]

I like Hbox too, but stuff like calling them out on Twitter is going to make Nintendo even less likely to work with you, this was the shit Dr.Alan was trying to prevent by taking on middle man roles and making licenses smoother to accumulate, but these days Hbox just yelling on Twitter makes such a bad look

[@deathangeleas2401]

"The grassroots communiity needs to die" *yes* Melee people specifically are just so bad for the community in that way. They don't care about money at least the majority of them don't because they want to put it to nintendo, they are the main reason for a lot of what is wrong with the community today as a culture because of a lot toxic things they used to do (leffen levels of trash talking, cyberbullying, misogyny, transphobia, etc) and it bleeds into the new community of the new game like smash 4 and ultimate and they overrate their game when even in the smash series there are better games then melee competitively. Yes, they are the people holding us back from just being a thriving community literally. I would go even further and say that melee as a competitive scene should die mostly or like not exist in like the realm of s tier events or even a tier events. I've been done with these people since 2014 when I officially became a competitive player.

[@Freefallendless]

Those big tournaments you don't want to see melee players at are ran by melee players. Also imagine being so mad over people liking a game

[@deathangeleas2401]

@@Freefallendless they're not, but yeah gloss over what I said completely even tho its pretty true.

[@BallaCS2]

Wtf r u talking about

[@tonysfreshpepperoni4802]

this community is a massive trainwreck. there's a reason i left it for so long. but now i am back for some reason. probably because sheik is badass lmao.

[@Bidizzle]

I kind of stopped fully supporting the smash scene at this point. I just can't get behind the lack of accountability with controversies involving players as well as lack of authority to said players, how they fully talk trash about Nintendo (I should add that I can understand why for some instances but they're not doing themselves any favors as to why not many companies want to sponsor them), and how they take shady companies to sponsor them as the bar is that low now. I think it is also unfair how Panda as a whole had to fall apart, essentially making most if not all lose their jobs and how we also lost the one connection with Nintendo. I can imagine Nintendo would never want to work with the community again after this. I'm not saying Nintendo is a saint but the community has shown me that they do not deserve the growth they are wanting to get unless they take massive changes to how they approach their own community. If possible I think Melee should stay grass routes, but Ultimate and the next smash can have opportunities to work with Nintendo, however Nintendo should not try to actively ban Melee events especially if Nintendo does not plan to sell Melee again and let Melee use mods to play the game they see fit. More importantly, have players and TOs take more responsibility and to ensure the community is safe. I absolutely love Melee, but I do not see in any way why Nintendo would want to work with a 20+ year old game they no longer sell and people are using mods for. It's also important to realize Nintendo does not need the esports scene at all compared to other companies, but I hope to see the next smash get legit opportunities without the Melee scene getting upset for the new smash scene for cooperating with Nintendo.

[@crabulonsix9162]

Throw in big youtubers like ludwig putting guys like GimR and the VGBC on a pedestal and throwing Panda under the bus despite all the evidence showing how much fault lies on GimR/VGBC and the way the general Smash community just goes with the narrative. It's a cesspool.

[@d_sims]

I'll never understand why Panda Global had to dissolve as a company, while at the same time VGBootCamp gets away scot free. First major players like Cody Schwab, Plup, and WaDi leave, which sets of an avalanche of NON-SMASH players like Punk, Justin Wong, and Kizzie Kay leaving the organization. EVEN NON-VIDEO GAME PLAYERS like Anna Cramling (Chess) left the organization to avoid controversy. Meanwhile, after the truth comes out, there's no pressure applied to, or felt by any players of VGBC - ones such as aMSa (though he left later on), TKBreezy, Pink Fresh, DarkHorse. They were all willing to stay with VGBC despite the undeniable damage that they've done to the community. The fact that there's no desire to part ways with this kind of organization is appalling for the rest of the smash community. I struggle to find a reason why any person or player would want to associate with a company that has done nothing but tell outright lie after lie, and cause irreparable damage to the community's reputation. Personally I think VGBC (notably GimR) should be excommunicated from the smash community and I never want to see him running, or near an event ever again. Their incompetence has not only costed numerous opportunities in the short term, but in the long term I could see Big N pointing the finger to any of his abhorrently run events and say "We never want to work with you ever again". The same energy players had towards "not attending panda cup" should be equal or even greater to the notion of "never attending a vgbc ran event ever again". Fuck VGBC and FUCK GIMR.

[@davidvkimball]

Because Nintendo gives out licenses sometimes doesn't mean they have "no problem" with competitive Smash Bros. tournaments. Specifically, they really only care about their latest games being played, and that they have control over it. Otherwise, they want nothing to do with the competitive scene. And they never have provided any meaningful monetization support to speak of. And like you mentioned - it does make sense. They are a family-friendly oriented brand, that's wholly incompatible with the competitive scenes of both Ultimate and especially Melee.

[@hunbi1875]

Well they wouldn't provide monetization anyway. The way that esports work is that the owners license the tournaments so they get big sponsors who can put money into it.

[@hunbi1875]

Also they don't have an issue with melee being played, they have an issue with melee being played for free with online which directly competes with the game they're selling.

[@hypertotodile3604]

@@hunbi1875 explain Evo 2013 if that’s the case back then ppl were.. just playing melee. no online, no mods, no shenanigans. and Nintendo still intervened to prevent melee from being at Evo (decision only got reversed cause of large fan outcry!)

[@davidvkimball]

@@hypertotodile3604 Exactly. There's a lot more to this that I can't speak to unfortunately. But it's not what it all seems.

[@83cuicui]

Splatoon has circuit and money last time i checked so your argument fall flat

[@unovi8141]

I think I said this before on another video but I really would love to see the community sort itself out. The way the Panda/SWT stuff ended was such a pity because it just hurts the scene and means there's less Melee to play. I only got into this scene around Apex but yeah it seems like some parts of the community aren't thinking straight about the logical step towards growth for the community. I'd love to see the heights we can hit if we did cooperate with Nintendo but that's looking doubtful..

[@NrettG]

I slightly disagree on grassroots. Both Major and small events can run. Tekken World Tour even gives out official standing points to small events just because it's running one. All you do is sign up, they look at the event, and it gets added to the tour. Still grassroots but you get best of both worlds.

[@cheapR1]

"Try me and your going to get clipped with the side b, cuz I'm flipping the disc"

[@M64bros]

Let's be honest and real: Nintendo wouldn't want to team up with a community with p3dos and pr3dators and a bunch of 35-year-old neck beards that cry over a stupid 21-year-old game, I am absolutely glad the smash community is getting what it deserves!

[@albertwesker4729]

They are a family brand, and also the way community treated them and panda when SWT 2022 got cancelled

[@M64bros]

@@albertwesker4729 indeed

[@fernando98322]

I love watching Melee (or loved to at least) and I can recognize Melee holds Smash back

[@PillageMontage]

Really dig your videos, man. Since I saw the Westballz video I knew you knew what tf was up

[@shuikai272]

Can anyone explain to me how / why VGBC and BTS still broadcast tournaments on Twitch? Didn't they cancel Panda because according to them they lost their broadcast rights?

[@thefranChise1]

Nobody lost broadcasting rights from the Panda Global debacle BTS, despite their collapse, still streams due to preexisting contracts they have to fulfill

[@BLACKSHADOW97531]

You don’t “need” broadcast rights to show a game or hold an event; they cancelled the SWT due to the very heavily implied threat of a Cease and Desist notice. Their previously ran tourneys on rerun(BTS) are their content so they can show that regardless of Nintendo having made the game that they’re playing; the reason BTS isn’t holding new tournaments is due to the organization going through a shut down, from what I’ve heard, largely because of their DOTA stuff doing worse. I don’t know if VGBC are still holding tourneys or if they’re hosting streams from other organizers on there channel; if they aren’t holding tourneys it’s likely because the threat of losing a lot of money if they receive a C&D.

[@shuikai272]

@@thefranChise1 I feel like Alan didn't do anything wrong and in actuality TOs just spread rumors about him to damage his reputation. Us even framing the debate like he kind of deserved it isn't even accurate lol. They literally just got mad because he got a license and they didn't.

[@PoorStargazer]

@@shuikai272 I think Alan just came off brusquely and was seen as an outsider. Being Melee is a grassroots scene they tend to not be that understanding to people like that and of course they support their own (VGBC) even when they fuck up

[@nahometesfay1112]

​@@shuikai272Several of the TOs did have licenses. I think he just sucked at negotiating.

[@ralph5320]

What I think is the biggest issue is how stubborn the grassroots Melee side of the community is. Whenever they see the name Nintendo they start screaming bloody murder and refuse to even consider trying to negiotiate. Edit: Realized that you covered this exact topic in the video, my bad!

[@Flip51wastaken]

Its easy to get a nintendo license just ask even I got one.

[@tokisuno]

phobs are $500 if you buy it from a controller modder. you can get phob 2.0 upgrade kits for about $100. phob 1.2.3 is/was more expensive due to needing to use a teenzy board.

[@kilaquill2537]

Banger thumbnail I gotta say

[@CHAMPIONSCRUCIBLE]

I see no reason why Nintendo would want to support a high school sleepover party that is majorly filled with boys and girls who yet have to grow into adults lmfao.

[@albertwesker4729]

better than community that support pedos

[@Ryantehossim1]

11:27 Great vid and great takes! I will say, I personally believe the reason Nintendo had been so adversarial to the Smash scene is probably the insane lengths folks went to to destroy Dr Alan following the SWT cancellation and Panda Global shutdown. The moment doxxing and death threats become a factor, there is no way Nintendo would want to work with a community as implosive as the smash community. And as much as I would love to see a future where Smash could be a viable esport, as long as we have folks in our scene who would much rather be martyrs than revolutionaries (gimr) that dream will remain just that.

[@fl4re163]

I mean the only reason the license means anything is because they send unlawful cease and desists for fair use video streams of their gameplay. Large sponsors are scared of big tournaments getting canceled only because the TO's can't afford the legal team to fight back. The idea that you meed a license to stream a game is ridiculous when you have jose gonzales 2004 posting Melee let's plays for their 5 youtube subs. The license is nice and yeah other esports get it, but imagine if you had to call the NFL everytime you felt like starting a backyard league.

[@thefranChise1]

You don’t need a license to stream smash. You need a license to do commercial activity (ie large sponsorships)

[@chai4638]

@@thefranChise1 you legally need a license for both. nintendo is one of the only companies that enforces it sometimes

[@thefranChise1]

@@chai4638 have you read the part of Nintendo’s own website where they quite explicitly say you don’t need a license to stream their games

[@JayWalkZ]

@@thefranChise1 explain evo 2013 then or what about smash world tour? "Security reasons" isn't valid. Anything can be considered a security reason. It's intentionally a vague term.

[@thefranChise1]

@@JayWalkZ the EVO decision was reversed and SWT straight up did not have security at one of their events (double down)

[@supernuke926]

Honestly the reason I think Nintendo doesn’t give the smash community anything is because Nintendo wouldn’t benefit whatsoever with the way the smash community is. We allow bigots, groomers, criminals, harassers, and bullying as long as one can push buttons good. I think if the Smash community actually was somewhat responsible and respectable, Nintendo would be much more relaxed with us. We would still have to jump through hoops to work with Nintendo, but being a respected community wouldn’t hurt our relationship with big daddy shiggy miyadiggy.

[@TheGamerFriends3]

Timeline of nintendo and the smash community. Two grown kids arguing like 6 year olds for the past 10+ years. Between Project M, Smash not being a competitive game, the Community around smash, Smash Tour, Slippi existing, and much more... you'd think by now nintendo would let these grown kids just continue playing a 20+ yr game they still haven’t done anything with but try to kill. I wish Nintendo would actualy do more with the Ultimate scene and leave Melee to its own devices as its been...... just plz for the love of god fix the bad people in the community and leave the good ones alone 💀.

[@Kenryck]

Congrats on 20k!

[@itskalstor9076]

gimr moment

[@PoorStargazer]

Gimr needs to lab proper communication and following safety guidelines. Back to the lab again!

[@Xearrik]

I think it's ironic that HBox just released a video saying how horrible the Smash community is for being mean to a Steve player and throwing a crab at himself in the past when he's partially responsible for one of the most self-destructive things a large portion of the community has ever done. First off, all competitive sports have jerks fans that say and do mean things. He thinks someone throwing a crab at him is bad? Look up some of the things thrown at baseball or football players. If anything, the crab throwing proves how positive the community can be. That crab being thrown at him made almost the whole community rally behind him, and even though he plays the most boring character in Melee, he's now the most loved Melee player. That crab was the catalist for the most finacial and social success he's ever had in his life. A community that responds that way to one person's hateful act doesn't sound horrible to me. The things that he calls the ENTIRE community garbage for, are done by a very small minority of people. But he and many people in public opinion swaying positions like him used their power to sway almost the entire community into burning down Panda for no good reason other than some jealus and insecure TOs...

[@hohladych]

"how cool it would be to get a crab in your face after winning a major! I wish someone thew stuff at me after i did a major accomplishment in my life!:)" Not even to question your morals, people often do realize how bad things they did were only after commiting it, which is what happened to melee after the crab incident. THANK GOD it was just a crab and not something from football stadiums "hbox is the most loved melee player". Outside of melee? Maybe. In melee? Not at all. Just watch the comments under recent tourney sets. People cheer for leffen more than for hbox, and thats telling something. Not to mention the everlasting cult of mango and recent amsa's rise in popularity "most boring character in melee" I sure do love seeing fox in 90% of the matches doing same tecks and combos, and being the main reason for puff to ledgecamp (lasercamp and camp the stage = puff is lame, somehow). If you love melee, there is no boring and fun characters, just bad matchups, but sure, you seem to know better "calls the ENTIRE community garbage" not sure if he actually said that in the video, but even if, its just a poor choice of words, no more. Group of people that you call "minor" was more that enough to force 16yo to stop attending in tourneys. Even if you consider them a "minority", it takes just one guy to fart in elevator for everyone to quit. Only small amount of people commit murder, following your logic we should tolerate that behavior as well, why not "Used their power to sway almost the entire community into burning down Panda" what power, exactly? He gets like 15k views on a nonclickbait video, you call that following enough to destroy a whole company? Even if so, did you even watch his videos? He literally was playing devils advocate, blaming him for destruction of panda is insane. People dont like monopoly, thats why panda died You are so out of touch of what is happening and what happened in the past, its unreal

[@Xearrik]

​@@hohladych Very poor comment. So insanely biased. There are so many things wrong with you comment. Replying to you with any argument would be pointless with your clear disregard for reality. You have my best wishes though. Good to luck to you.

[@hohladych]

@@Xearrik So instead of defending yourself and showing proof to your words you just review my comment as bad, biased and leave with 0 arguments why? Thats what i call an irony Gl to you too, i guess

[@kemmyexists]

Yes throwing a crab at someone over a video game is bad. Are you okay brotha?

[@Xearrik]

@@kemmyexists Who said it wasn't? Bad things sometimes have good outcomes for the person it happened to. Maybe you're too young to have learned that leason yet.

[@lu1gyd13z]

Tbh a license is a preferable thing only if you are willing to grow over grassroots events because it sets you up into the corporate machinery. Look at it this way: It's as if you started selling lemonade on your front yard and your business has been doing pretty well. Suddenly you feel like you could start offering your lemonade as a sealed product to sell of grocery stores and what not... What do you think you'll need to do that? I'll leave it at that.

[@kyurei4478]

The community seems to keep voluntarily ignoring or minimizing the good actions made for the community which exist and this frustrates me to no end cause it's simply not representative of reality and does nothing more than antagonizing Nintendo. Yes Nintendo might well be way too strict and has taken very questionnable decisions in the past but the community should have the decency to stay objective regarding what Nintendo does. Nintendo's decisions simply seem very unclear for the most part cause they don't communicate their guidelines. I don't even defend Nintendo, I just defend truth.

[@xuanbachpham9752]

I don't really get it since I don't play Smash, but as an FG tournament audience, I think grassroots can be alive and officially supported. For example, I like how Bandai handle their Tekken World Tour. Events organizers and TOs can apply their events into TWT with different tiers. Smaller events can be in Dojo tier bigger events can be in Challenger tier, Master tier, and so on.

[@rceolin8189]

im speed running all your videos good shit man

[@JeskaiEye]

Good video! May i recommend next time recording mic audio separately from the stream, that way when you cut parts together for a video, the background music isn't jumping around?

[@Mepphy99]

yeah the community Should listen to you more

[@theotherjared9824]

The scene as it used to be is currently being uprooted. Maybe that's for the best, and something better can grow in its place. I doubt it as long as the old guard is still around.

[@rgprosucctions1704]

Tbh im just tired of incompetent people trying to fight big brother and prentend something is going to change

[@a_little_flame589]

bro honestly evo 2013 is honestly the worst thing that happened to the smash community cause like there's this idea in the melee community of Nintendo doesn't want us but we can keep on fighting and we'll never die and this sort of romantisised idea of melee being you know shitty tournaments in some guys basement and it was honestly popularised by evo 2013

[@lu1gyd13z]

BTW! That statement HB made about "never any money to the talented player who came out on top". That is lowballing Nintendo for the media coverage he was getting, setting up a platform and enabling him to probably get better sponsorship and who know what other deals..! Inconformity at it's finest...

[@mds_main]

As always the Melee cult is the bane of the Smash community

[@rocklob069]

Having permission to exist is the bare minimum of support

[@InTuneGarage]

Why is the smash community so eager at defending PDF's. Is it cause the victims are also guys? Like with the Nairo stuff if that was a girl there would be insane police investigations and jailtime. Its insane. Also the Smash Community will never be taken seriously if stuff like Leffen, Nairo are left unchecked and unbanned but Hax doesnt get unbanned, Panda Cup drama for no reason like they literally had an event licensed by nintendo and it wasnt good enough for them so they witch hunt it into non existence then complain they have no licensed events and not taken seriously LOL. I always relate it to a bunch of liberals, crying because they dont get their way ->get their way -> protest it-> lose it-> complain they dont have it. its like a never ending circle.

[@AwkwardTurtle311]

I can’t say i agree with the community at all when it comes to modding. Only thing i agree with and Nintendo is ok with turning a blind eye to is ucf because it doesn’t visually change their game. However, I seriously hate that random players can remap their controller after it being banned for 20 years, but because a top player does it no one stops them.

[@eliam1992x]

Also, Nintendo doesn't need esports to the same degree as capcom.

[@gregoryfuller9736]

Street fighter 5 was made because Sony paid for it because capcom had no money to make it

[@salfoyer2411]

Good video really sums up the drama going on in the smash community recently

[@shafir5726]

Good video!

[@kemmyexists]

Freshcut probably is a bad thing but the pro players just want a bag.

[@somenerd7046]

Congrats on 20K my friend!

[@Borzogo]

Nintendo is VERY litigious. They may support eSports in a "Nintendo-way" but not in a normal way. That's the beginning, middle, and end of this issue. They may sue KZbin, eSports, your mother, the whole internet, or even the ghost of your ancestors if they can find the graveyard address.

[@paulflemister4737]

New video drop!

[@DavidDumbedDown]

This video was uploaded at 17:52 o clock

[@DavidDumbedDown]

09:54

[@Whitesnake273]

Hooooo boy you gotta make a new video about this

[@DoctorDeuce]

Phobs are not $500 and not fragile either... I don't know why there is so much misinfo about them. People think they have macros like goomwave as well. It's cheaper to convert a controller to phob than to notch a controller.

[@import3dguest]

Yeah and you can make your own. The pcb is open source. I made one in a day with no prior soldering experience with a cheap soldering iron I ordered off amazon lol. Mine has also gotten smacked around quite a bit and still works perfectly fine.

[@nahometesfay1112]

The issue is that phobs aren't a single product. Different modders make them at different price points with different levels of build quality. This is the biggest problem Panda Controllers would have solved: consistency.

[@DoctorDeuce]

@@import3dguest nice, you make the 1.0 or 2.0 board? the 1.0 looked too difficult to solder with my shaky hands and the microcontroller was being scalped so I just bought one... but really not expensive with good build quality.

[@DoctorDeuce]

@@nahometesfay1112 Yeah well Panda controller was literally never going to happen. There are reputable builders that sell for cheap and have very generous return policies so I don't really care about the panda controller that was vaporware from the beginning. They never even built a prototype.

[@nahometesfay1112]

@@DoctorDeuceThat's BS they clearly showed prototypes in their campaign. The only reason it didn't happen was COVID supply chain issues. As for Phobs I know there are good Phobs otherwise no one would use them, but there is clearly a consistency issue. If even top players willing to pay top dollar and having all the connections manage to get malfunctioning Phobs that's a serious problem. A huge advantage with box controllers is you buy one and it works as well any other (of the same brand) and it never degrades. It's crazy that after all this time no one has managed to make consistent GCCs.

[@KingGrey]

this is a pretty weak take to be honest you cant say "grassroots must die you cant run big events without nintendo" in the same video that says "you cant play melee without mods" bottom line is nintendo doesnt want mods, and without ucf the game cant be played at all if either nintendo or mods have to go there is literally only one option

[@lalehiandeity1649]

Getting licensed would allow you to use mods.

[@BlaickXD]

A lot of people here not remembering (or knowing) about stuff like Nintendo trying to cancel smash from Evo and stuff like that. The trust between the smash scene and Nintendo has been broken years ago already, anything Nintendo does is met with fear or doubt because of precedents, not because the smash community is just stupid or something… It’s only normal that we would react like that.

[@MordecaiandMonroe]

I get what you are saying but compare nintendo to every other company that has an esport game and what nintendo does is basically zero

[@albertwesker4729]

cuz the esports for smash are corrupted, they condone pedos and have bad standards, nintendo don't thik they can get money from it and they're family brand

[@lalehiandeity1649]

Because Smash is a casual party game.

[@LHSMeleeClub]

sad times maaaaaahn

[@BotSupportIronValiant]

There are two sides to every story

[@ghosthunter0950]

While I agree with you on almost everything, I don't think that legally we should have to ask for Nintendo's grace to run tournaments in the first place. Imagine if repair people had to ask for permission from a company to repair their devices, what kind of ridiculous arrangement would that be? except the repair people actually DWINDLE the companies sales because people use their devices for longer meanwhile the tournaments increase Nintendo's sales.

[@Senctia]

Apple has sued third party repair companies for repairing their phones.

[@chuckled125]

lol that was a horrible analogy, right to repair is a huge issue

[@empyrium1516]

HBox is a disingenuous grifter. He's making money on BS Smash controversy by rallying over nothing.

[@angryvibes8611]

18:04 this is common w other games so u are wrong lol co op cup just happened in japan without capcom they just have a community that has enough passion for the game that they do it anyway i think this is the kind of video that happens wen new ppl start looking at the state of what the game is now. that is just the tip of the iceberg u dont see what has been built all this time before and thats why ppl like thecrimsonblur feel so strongly ab gatekeeping instead of trying to reason w new ppl who will just never understand the feelings and the beauty of what it was like to attend tournaments before streaming/capture was commonplace and each big event was its own kind of narrative that u get ur own perspective to like talkin w ur friends u went w bonding and creating meaningful memories bc that was all that was left after lol no documentation also i feel like who wants this outcome ur talking ab? to me it j feels like a higher ratio of new players to actually entertaining players meaning less likely and more difficult to get an oppurtunity to fight someone that matters to u and more boring content clogging my feed so wats the point think ab rom 1 that was a tournament that wasnt gonna even b a major but it was j a time where everybody that was good went to everything and yea theres som ppl in that bracket that dont play n e more but wen u look at that camcorder footing from in between the sets and everything or look at the group photo they put on fb every person at that event was a whole character lol its j more entertaining imo and why exactly does anybody need nintendo for n e thing? lol im not interested in a tournament series thats tryna make money n e way bc those ppl are OBVIOUSLY gonna hold different values than the competitors also hax$4l

[@thefranChise1]

ok

[@83cuicui]

Well there definitly a lot to gain . Whenever Melee was at EVO it had viewership rivaling even streetfighter on some set and finale ; The legacy on melee Is really crazy the game will still be alive after smash ultimate dies down . Furthemore, there plenty of ressentement because of nintendo shutting down tournament during covid , trying to cancel the live stream first year Melee was at EVO . Melee Player are a bit traumatized by that period of nintendo. also Nintendo with Emulation and fanproject are litterally scum protecting 20 year old game when they have no intention to re release them

[@albertwesker4729]

And they support bad people like leffen and others despite the shit they did

[@doctordice2doctordice210]

Stfu melee fanboy

[@albertwesker4729]

@@doctordice2doctordice210 Melee is cool, but the fanbase is horrible

[@evadekiryu5060]

You remind me of axe jit

[@tropik5724]

Hbos is not the goat its mango or Armada for sure Hbos is nr3 doh.

[@kevinparker7393]

doing gods work my man

[@jacobaulrich1]

yes

[@plabcentral630]

You are spitting. Grassroots needs to go.

[@heterodoxagnostic8070]

8:14 guy in chat is spitting (you probably won't agree with me, but that's fine)

[@zetsun0]

Based

[@lincolnmclachlan5859]

promo sm 🤤

[@Farza2005]

هنقريبوكس أغبى لعب سماشبروس

[@newjumpcityjosh9333]

I wish we as a community would fight back more against the licensing issue. I don’t see why tournaments large or small need licenses outside of giving Nintendo extra and unnecessary control over these events. I hate these greedy ass corporations.

[@lalehiandeity1649]

Watch the video. Brands aren’t comfortable sponsoring unlicensed events.

[@tenebrisity6170]

Im here early

[@lu1gyd13z]

Lastly... I do want to point out for all those people saying that Nintendo is being unfair and unreasonable for not allowing mods and what not... Dudes, what if I go to your home and start putting things wherever I want just because I feel that's how it should be?! You don't go into another person home and tell them how things should or shouldn't be..! IT IS WHAT IT IS! And telling Nintendo to reach out if they want to do things right... That's exactly how you get Nintendo NOT to reach out..! You arrogant SO... I'm out!

[@albertwesker4729]

cuz of IP laws in japan and US, don't follow and harsh stuff comes, and comunity defends pedos

[@GekkoOne]

Eh the mods point is a little weak- they do release their product when they sell it so the house comparison is a reach. Other than that this makes sense.

[@Borzogo]

Why only Nintendo? Capcom, Riot, Blizzard, NetEase, Microsoft - ANY other company EASILY builds eSports. Face it, the blame is on Nintendo. Everyone else can do it. Nintendo just can't be normal.

[@tjlnintendo]

Nintendo don’t care for esports. Plus those other companies make sure everything is squeaky clean by breathing over the necks everyone in the esport. Commentators can’t say whatever they want. Things are gonna be strict. Melee fans won’t like that.

[@SERMareep2007]

Something tells me you didnt watch the video

[@gregoryfuller9736]

Nintendo doesn’t need esports capcom biggest franchises is street fighter

[@SigSelect]

don't cry about crypto before educating yourself

[@thefranChise1]

Ok, I’ve educated myself and I still want to cry

[@TyranniRed]

The US govt has already stated its intent to further regulate (steal) crypto. It's not a long term investment, at least not everywhere.

[@GekkoOne]

There's a sucker born every minute lol

[@AllOfTheHats]

L take stop trying to be relevant by being controversial and go back to maining pikachu

[@FlamingBasketballClub]

The FIFA eSports scene is far worse than Smash Bros eSports because of EA Sports.

[@woody72691]

I'm sorry I lost focus when I saw tim duncan was trending