What Should Your Card Draw Packages Look Like in EDH?

[@mattratcliffe2181]

I am using much less staples now. I am really focusing on it fitting the theme of the deck. It definitely powers my deck down. Which is what my playgroup of brand new players need. I am finding the challenge really rewarding.

[@roadrash2005]

I find staples make my decks feel homogeneous, my favorite decks are the ones that have a very specific goal/ card restriction. Good stuff decks are soulless.

[@christophwehrmann892]

Absolutely true. It feels like your playing always the same kinda game even tho ur switching decks

[@SparkMatik716]

Same here! Our whole playgroup has really devoted themselves to more interactive fun games at lower power levels. We actually just housebanned Sol Ring and Mana crypt, just to prevent really pulling ahead in turn 1. I've also personally dropped all my tutors to let variance take the wheel, and stopped playing boardwipes because I'd rather just play another game if I'm going to be setting up all over again

[@mattratcliffe2181]

@@SparkMatik716 my brother and I are currently tracking turn 1 sol ring wins to see if it creates non games or exciting games.

[@dustinfennimore8104]

That's awesome 👌 as a new player I appreciate that

[@pookygallahad4749]

I love drawing cards, can’t get enough of it, I run Humble Defector and Coveted Jewel in the same deck!

[@Kaffefar]

put Kharn the Betrayer in there!

[@thrillhouse4151]

Ooh that’s fun.

[@NinjaTerd473]

Howling Mine, Kami of the Crescent Moon, Font of Mythos, any number of wheels. Love spinning my wheels. Let me see how much of my deck I can get through. Also, Ad Nauseam and Peer Into the Abyss!!

[@katekyo11]

I play humble defector in Rionya so i can make tons of copies of it, activate them to draw tons of cards and they disappear during my end step so my opponents dont get them. Coveted Jewel in Osgir is great. Make 2 copies of it and sac them so your opponents dont get them

[@CharlieEJD]

What about the classic Grave Titan with Curious Obsession attached to it. Now thats card draw for ya 👁👄👁

[@vincentrutledge9445]

The package comment got me. That’s real comedy right there. When you can’t tell if it was intentional and it’s amazing.

[@Transformers4444]

Had a good laugh myself with that one LOL

[@dateknight8199]

I'm always up to see Cherries' package 😜

[@vincentrutledge9445]

@@dateknight8199 it’s even funnier because they offered to show both theirs’s and beezy’s and beezy’s eyes say it all lmao

[@yavivanov6650]

At what point?

[@jessesandburg]

Beezys face lmao

[@michaelcollins4534]

The thing I really like about the more slow burn card draw, like phyrexian arena, is that they usually pull no aggro while generating value. If you draw five cards a turn off like a sea gate restoration or garruk, now you have three people who want you very dead. Unless it's esper sentinel because people will kill you just so you stop asking about the one. Also sad robot is one of my favorite value cards for this same reason, man actively pushes aggro off you

[@sc100ott]

You definitely need card draw at various mana costs. You can’t just throw in big 6+ cmc draw-a-bunch spells because sometimes you have trouble getting to 6 mana, and sometimes you need to be putting something on the board or interacting with threats on the same turn you’re drawing.

[@johnathanrhoades7751]

I’ve been filling out card draw in my decks a lot more…I just keep finding I am low on cards. Also, showing one’s package on KZbin might be frowned upon… 😂

[@emmanuelhernandez3200]

Same I have a condole zombie decks and if it’s not a zombie it does not go into the deck

[@yumyumeatemup]

Id argue that things like faithless looting are card draw, but just not card advantage, as you give up after gaining in equal amounts of cards. However, you still got to draw 2 cards off the top of your deck, make a decision from the cards in your hand and then discard the cards that arent going to help either answer a threat on the field, or advance your own board state/win con. Digging through your deck to get that key piece of a combo for your win con or to answer a threat is really whats important here. Things like discard first and then draw feel less like card draw as you have to pitch first, not knowing what youre gonna get off the top of yoru deck and thus could leave you in a worse situation then what you had previously started at.

[@wesleypollek4637]

I like your take on ad nauseum, for non-cEDH games I think the black standard for burst draw is Peer into the Abyss

[@LePsycho2007]

I play your Henzie deck 😊. Very sweet. I am glad the list is available and updated on Moxfield. Thanks !

[@nickstatt7341]

This video had some great points and I love terms for the different kinds of card draw, however while I could follow along, I think this video was too short and some parts need expanding like card advantage to cantrip differences. I'd love to see this topic expanded on in the future in a way so I can recommend it to the newer players I play with.

[@ryznak4814]

About hyper efficient card draw spells I thought of two more. First off Peer into the abyss, but I guess that maybe the really high cost might be considered a build around, the second one being Bolas’s citadel even though it’s not really card draw. ETA: something else that I think should have been mentioned is that if your commander has a way to deal repeatable non combat damage you should consider using curiosity like cards in blue or green. These cards can let you draw a ton of cards for example my Slimefoot deck has Keen sens and Snake umbra and with those each time one of my saprolings dies I draw 1 for each opponent.

[@Arcadious10]

commander cube u say!?!?!?! love it. do an episode of this please. thanks for the content as always

[@YeaItsMeMatt89]

I like Harmonize in my gruul spellslinger deck. I can copy for 2 mana and will be rewarded more with recurring effects via Chandra/Jaya.

[@das5884]

You guys forgot about Necropotence being hyper efficient.

[@cabbagedestroyer1693]

I play mono green stompy deck mostly. And I always have 12 to 14 card draws. Burst draws such as life's legacy, return of the Wild speaker, Garruk primal hunter, greater good, Majestic Genesis, rishkars expertise, and regal force Then I also have conditional card draws such as beast Whisperer, Soul of harvest, great henge, garruks uprising, elemental bond, and guardian project. I'm never low on cards in 99% of the games I play.

[@jonathanaiello621]

HAPPY 100,000 SUBSCRIBERS! Been here since 8,000 - so proud of you two! That plaque is gonna look great in the background!

[@JaimeAGB-pt4xl]

Personally (note I play mostly budget decks and avoid tutors for the most part) I put 10 sources of draw in the deck, with 4 of them being immediate draw (i.e: sign of blood) and the rest based on sinergies or other actions the deck wants to do (i.e beast wishperer in a creature heavy deck)

[@clayvision]

I tell people, its not a question of "do i want to draw cards" its more of "when do i want to draw em" i have a deck that has tons of early game card draw, and a deck where my commander is card draw, and a deck where my only real card draw is refill

[@andrewrockwell1282]

This is a good series. Keep it going.

[@randymotter51]

Running a Beledros deck, I had the choice of putting in a Phyrexian Arena but opted for Dark Prophecy instead. Effectively turns pests into card draw without losing the aristocrat synergy.

[@lilyflowa666]

why not both?

[@randymotter51]

@@lilyflowa666 the arena is consistent but is only one card per turn where the Dark Prophecy is for every single creature of mine that dies, sacrificing the pests results in massive card draw. I could probably squeeze the arena in there anyway but my deck list is pretty tight and other options felt better as well, like Skullclamp.

[@nothumanaftrall2068]

Thanks for providing all this beautiful content. Life’s been too much lately and I’ve had to block out everything but watching you guys

[@Ivansports95]

keep grinding brotha, it gets better

[@sunflowertheog]

​@Ivan Cruz so real

[@JessBritvec]

I wish there were more options that put you up 1 card that you can actually play on turn 2. All I can think of is Night's Whisper, Sign In Blood, Chart A Course if you attack, Deadly Dispute if you sac a token to it. I don't consider cards like Village Rites and Reckoner's Bargain to be card advantage when you sac a token to it, since the token is worth at least a fraction of a card. I want to see more exploration of the design space of 2 mana draw 2 with a condition. I almost never play cantrips anymore even in higher power decks where I'm looking for a combo piece. I think of them less like staples and more niche. I play some less stapley cantrips in my Zevlor deck, since that commander turns them into 3 mana draw 3 when you have 3 opponents. I'd consider them card advantage in something like Niv Mizzet Parun and decks like that, but I've definitely fallen off the cantrip train.

[@em688]

I mean, the most relevant part of the video was the throwaway comment that 65 cards become cantrips in the Oskar deck with the commander out. The whole conversation needs to include filtering + cantrips + advantage. It just doesn't make sense without the whole picture. Faithless Looting is fine in certain decks, just like Entomb is fine in certain decks. Both are minus one card, but if you can gain that advantage from your graveyard, either through critical flashback mass, or through a specific target, minus one card is fine to filter.

[@Solemnyty]

I tend to actually count looters and such in my card draw packages because, usually, if I’m playing those cards it’s only because it synergizes with the deck to where it effectively is card draw. Good video though :)

[@thomaspetrucka9173]

15 CARD DRAW CARDS AND NO LESS (I only play white and green, which need the help 😂)

[@ersatic]

Might be y'all's best outro in a minute. Top tier segue from Beezy and Cherries coming in with the primo hype. PS: nearly to 100k subscribers for the nitpicking nerds. I'm hyped to see that threshold crossed

[@tubz]

Love the ultra subtle dig at phyrexian arena 😂

[@spudster8887]

Genuinely think card draw is the main thing people don't value enough. I run at minimum 14 draw spells, assuming my vommander isn't a specific draw engine. Once I drop below 4 in hand I actively feel extremely uncomfortable in a game if I'm honest. Maybe I'm too much of a blue player. If my commander draws cards, I'm not dropping below 10 personally. I really do think card draw is the strongest thing in the format isn't your win conditions. More options is powerful, card draw gives you that

[@jordonpohl7393]

Cantripping into finding win cons is cool but when you run tutors too I feel like it’s sort of becoming a race the clock solitaire game with yourself and semi avoiding others. I like more interactive decks or combat base decks personally but maybe just preference 🤷‍♂️☺️

[@Phe0nix1986]

Love seeing your packages!

[@blackmountain1983]

Important to note: Jeska's Will is good in decks that play their commander all the time, which is most, but not EDGAR MARKOV.

[@JustRightPinedo]

Would love a video on your go tos for each color/guild card draw package

[@rahasyabharaniah1391]

This doesn't really work. It's more like package per archetype & color. A gb graveyard deck will look very different from a gb lifegain deck.

[@mthlay15]

I faced a Nekusar, the Mindrazer on Sunday. The landfall triggers on Aesi got pretty sketchy, but I ended up winning with a Crop Rotation/Jolrael/Scute Swarm.

[@avatarofpapermagic]

Very informative Joe and Beezy! Question for you both, best card draw in green?

[@TinyLegs15243]

Not the nerds but if mono green you should look at guardian project, great henge, beast whisper, rishkars expertise, Garrucks uprising, elemental bond, colossal majesty, greater good and glimpse of nature.

[@darksign5621]

You are thinking about chills with the voice at the start.

[@xXCigarXx]

Beezys face when cherries was talking about showing us the packages.

[@sle7189]

This was in the background the first minute, but I started paying attention when I heard you all say you were gonna show me your packages 🙈

[@VegettoBlack]

Personally I put tutors over cantrips . Esper sentinel, rhyatic study and the 3rd good one you guys mentioned are some of the few draw spells I almost always include

[@VegettoBlack]

But I almost always play black so I'm super spoiled when it comes to tutors lol

[@TinyLegs15243]

@@VegettoBlack Not everyone wan'ts to run tutors for a variety of reasons, so having other ways to dig is important as well.

[@dizzynarutofan100]

Found the guy who's game looks the same every time. Booooooring. 1 tutor max for that nice variety.

[@VegettoBlack]

My friends play cedh most of the time. Don't hate just because you don't like the format. Chess haven't used new pieces since ... It's inception (I could totally be wrong there) but people still enjoy the game with the same opening board state ^__^

[@VegettoBlack]

@brenden yea in my izzet decks especially I love draw spells to make a mass army of little angry artifacts (or horrors now thanks to 40k!)

[@YeaItsMeMatt89]

It depends on your commander ofc. If you have a clunky high mana commander, you need lots of draw because you can't miss land drops. If you have a low cost commander, missing a land drop is not such a big deal.

[@mrconchapelua]

I love the free synergy cantrips like Urza and mirsha's bauble also gitaxian probe, manamorphose and street wraith I play those whenever I can

[@williamdrum9899]

Cards like Harmonize are my favorite. Unconditional draw three. I don't like Divination since I'm spending 3 mana to only get a net +1 in card advantage. I don't like "Discard all the cards in your hand and draw that many" since if you only have 3 or 4 cards in hand you don't really improve your hand much. It's only good if you have a lot of cards in hand which is usually a win-more

[@mrRPGamers]

Joe Cherries honestly looks like a fusion of themselves and Beezy today idk why, might be the new cut

[@Gloryofthereef]

I’ve literally been working on a draw package for my mana mana mana deck for the last two days (gruul mana doubling with burn/hydra win cons)

[@Tymor666]

Ya guys don't bring up necropotence much anymore, should fit in the hyper efficient cards

[@TinyLegs15243]

They aren't playing higher power anymore, which probably explains why they dont play necro anymore

[@energetek661]

Amber and card draw! What could be better?!

[@c.r.bledsoe9322]

Joe be lookin fine with the fresh cut

[@Aubsty]

That moment when you check your deck to see if you have enough card draw in it after watching the nitpicking nerds...and then see that yes. 😎

[@Kopekemaster]

Hey, could you two do a video explaining your process for updating/changing your commander cube? I built a commander cube around the start of COVID with quite well defined draft archetypes, and I have no idea how to go about updating it with new cards.

[@BattleAxeRX]

I like Leadership Vacuum as a Removal cantrip. Removes Uril and Narset :😜

[@mrnixon2287]

good video. synergy is key. this vidoe reminds ppl of this. just swapped out ponder for grim haruspex in my Avarin Lich Queen deck which is full of sacrifice effects so i can respond to a wrath effect and draw me some cards :)

[@benekatop]

I never even noticed that you have the 5 colors in the background lol

[@arturol.m.7245]

Black market connections!!

[@wowfreak10]

Some decks want to discard, have to think about that

[@thelottusflower]

Hi guys, Big fan here, first time comenting because my English sucks, but i really want to ask You guys if You can Share your commander cube list. Keep the good work and thank You for your videos!

[@CmdrUD87]

Question about this: How do you count recursion here? Anything from Phyrexian Rec to Sunny T? Do they factor into draws, or not, as you do not get new cards, pnly more options?

[@johnzigemm5944]

My card draw package is a total of twenty-four 5 and 6 mana creatures and zero noncreature spells. Sidenote: I play Unesh.

[@donniemilby7894]

Cherry looking like a fly guy

[@jl9363]

No Sylvan Library?

[@tommieboi707]

Turn 1. Play a land. Cast dark ritual. Cast necropotence. Draw 39 cards.

[@FrankVrep]

Help me out here! I have a tolsimir friend to wolves deck, which is wolf tribal. Very little wolf cards draw cards, so if I put in 13-15 card draw spells i feel that the core of the deck falls apart. I have always done 10-12 carddraw spells in any of my decks.

[@donniemilby7894]

Beezy looking fresh as always

[@SWBF24ever]

My SO plays Naya colours and we are struggeling to find decent card draw.

[@huberandor9123]

I mean where the heck is Necropotence?

[@thork_tv]

Beezy why didn't you Count ghostly pilferer towards your carddraw? I know you can Draw cards of him untapping but that is too expensiv the Main way i (Grazilaxx) Draw of pilferer is His trigger: whenever an opponent casts Something Not from their Hand.

[@moonysh3827]

Is the capacity of Gishath can be considered as a card draw ? Sorry for my bad english

[@DanZigs79]

I personally think that unless you synergy and have a way of getting extra value off them like blinking thought monitor, 1-off draw 2 effects are really underwhelming and not worth playing. It’s much better to drop a value engine, especially in the early game or go for the big burst draw in the late game.

[@joes3061]

Card filtering is card draw. It’s just not card advantage.

[@nzephier]

Amber in the video guess: yes. Timestamp: 0:00 Did I cheat? Yes.

[@Dark-Pikachu1]

Moxfeild ad at 0:41 😏

[@thork_tv]

Do you think 9 scry, 10 cantrips and 16 multi Draw spells will be enough?

[@ironman2818]

Moxfield ad at 9:99 👀👀

[@VegettoBlack]

U guys wouldn't consider faithless and careful (and by extension entomb) draw spells in reanimators?

[@rlbarney2]

11:17 have to disagree with you (Joe Cherries) here... maybe it is just a matter of semantics. Faithless Looting IS card draw, when played two cards are being drawn, so any triggers related to card draw do occur. However, it is NOT card advantage as was said (by Beezy), the player is now down one card.

[@ryansanders9273]

Profoundly relevant

[@uphillwalrus5164]

There’s no reason I could think of why a blue deck wouldn’t want to run gitaxian probe

[@austinturgoose]

Any plans for 100k? Congrats btw

[@zoovisto9377]

Do I need to be a patreon to see these "Daily" videos you keep talking about? There's only a video every few days here on youtube...

[@Dyllon2012]

Eh, I disagree about Henzie. In practice, he has ridiculous uptime since he’s so cheap. People almost never target him as well so you mostly have to worry about board wipes.

[@dirtyfrench2926]

My Sidar/Tymna deck runs only 7 draw engines including Tymna. I also run Toski, Ohran Froatfang, Dhalsim, Gyx, Sylvan Library, and Battle Angels of Tyr.

[@alexanderneimeth4538]

Something I am curious about is, what are your opinions on tutors (both conditional and unconditional, vamp tutor, worldly tutor, and eladamri’s call are a few that come to mind) in terms of both power and draw potency. I know you two have been powering down your decks recently, but even when playing combat focused decks (literally almost all my decks are combat focused, love the archetype so much!) do you run tutors? I don’t have combos in my decks so that’s not a path I have to worry about, but I’d be curious about some insight you two might be able to provide on the subject.

[@olafthemoose9413]

My humble opinion is that tutors undermine the concept of a singleton format, so I won't play any in my commander decks.

[@williamdrum9899]

In my opinion, creature tutors and land tutors are fine. The others, I only play one per deck. (Vampiric OR Enlightened OR Mystical, not one of each)

[@rosinx]

I may just be behind on this one, but when showing the Patreon subs, it says "Buy Cherries a cEDH deck" with Austin Post. Did Post buy Cherries a deck once or does Cherries wish Post would buy him one? If he did buy him one, who did you get? and that's awesome

[@CanadianMeatloaf]

What are the thoughts on Gravestorm?

[@mizzlchieizzl]

Love the slime

[@matthewhettel8316]

Nice haircut Cherries!

[@The_High_SeAs]

Does tutoring count as card draw? Does search for land count as card draw in a ratio? How much scry is 1 draw?

[@MagicKamek]

scry is considered .5 draw, tutoring depends, if it like vampiric tutor to the top of the deck its -1 draw, if its to your hand its like super loot you are even, if you tutor card draw well its expensive cardraw (cardraw cost+tutor cost, and maybe even -1 draw depending on the tutor used) if you tutor draw it better be really good

[@sc100ott]

In my Eligeth/Ravos Deck, scrying is pretty awesome!

[@Devilish420]

I consider tutoring to be the best form of filtering because you're playing a card to get a card like filtering however with tutoring you can look for the card you want/need at the time.

[@sterlingwbishop]

Moxfield guess day 3: 6:24 Edit: added the word day

[@thefragware]

The examples were all very specific/nicheish, one example with non-drawing commander wouldve been cool

[@Clepto_and_Co]

Nitpicking nerds are poop, a thrasios/vial smasher deck

[@TheBouShea]

Are all your decks basically the same? 40 lands, 10 removal, 15 draw, 10 mama acceleration, we are already 3/4 the deck and I haven't adding anything about the deck

[@benekatop]

If your commander already draws, you dont need as many card draw spells. When we say 10 ramp spells, we don't mean 10 synergy-less cards, but 10 ramp spells that synergize. For example, if your green commander cares about enchantments, play Wild Growth. If your green commander cares about Elves, put a Llanowar Elves. If it cares about strong creatures, put a Topiary Stomper. Same for every other package. When adding those packages you definitely have to think about your theme.

[@MasonSheffield]

Chills. It's Chills.

[@justynwclark]

Included video link is removal packages, not ramp packages. 😅

[@Buberte]

300 More to go 😁🥳🥳🥳

[@VexylObby]

I feel like nobody should include cantrips that ONLY draw a card or scry with it. It better have some synergy involved. Otherwise, use cards that draw more than one card at all times, unless draw acard is a bonus on the card.

[@famousstranger8468]

The more of these type of content I watch the more I think I'm a bad commander player. Having a hand is my biggest weakness and loses me 99% of my games

[@Fogshaper]

As a matter of fact, Moxfield does not allow the word "poop" in a deck title. Checkmate, nerds.

[@jacobglass5744]

8:45 moxfield for sure

[@markmason2216]

I couldn't find the commander cube.

[@grillburgerdaq5121]

I'm making a lord of Tresserhorn deck and he draws cards. Okay it's for an opponents but he draws cards.

[@KyleMifflin]

Peer into the Abyss. Good day.