NO FUEL PUMP - Debunking The Quality Fuel Line Myth

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Actual description: Edit: A LOT of poeple apparently just read the title and assume I have something against quality fuel line (or rigid fuel line) ... If you actually pay attention, you will see there is a specific myth I am debunking...
Lots of people have said these heaters run better with solid fuel line, as the heater will get proper fuel pressure. This video is testing that myth... let's find out.

[@ThePaperBoy187]

Whats funny is i installed a pick up tube instead of gravity fed. And it definitely sucks fuel up and pumps it..

[@loweredexpectations4927]

I'm guessing this is in response to me saying that the system isn't pressurized ? If so, there's a misunderstanding. The pump has the ability to lift fuel, and if you pinch the fuel line, it has the ability to build pressure. If you don't have a line clamped on, you can even build enough pressure to pop a line off. My point is, as I said at the opening of the video, there's no nozzle or injector, so it is not a pressurized system. If you put the heater 10 feet up from the tank, there will be pressure in the fuel line, as the pump lifts the weight of the fuel, but there will not be any pressure at the heater, as the heater is not the restriction.

[@Truckinup266]

Albert Einstein once said something like "brilliant spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds" keep up the great work and educational content Buddy❤

[@loweredexpectations4927]

Haha... yeah. People get too attached to their ideas. If you challenge their idea, they take it personally as tho you are saying something about them as a person... Nope... just experimenting and showing my findings.

[@Burnafatty420]

Is there a way that I can turn up the fan speed on my diesel heater Joel? TIA

[@Splash0921]

The tinkering you’re doing is really interesting. There are two sizes of gravity fed drip sets, 15 gtts and 60 gtts. That looks like a 15 (15 drops per mL) which is used for higher flow rates and would be important for people to know. 60’s are often used for medication administration in the field where more fine tuning is needed, usually piggybacked on a larger 1000 cc saline bag. We use these drip set for all sorts of off the menu applications including flushing eyes, etc. It made me chuckle to see you use it for this! Awesome vid.

[@loweredexpectations4927]

Haha... thanks for the comment. I got a few of these form my girlfriend who works as a vet tech at an animal clinic. I didn't know about the two drip volumes. I know they usually use these with a pump and not to actually set the flow, but as a way to tell at a glance if things are about right. Or at least that's my inderstanding.

[@Splash0921]

@@loweredexpectations4927 Maybe you’re done with this subject in your vids but if you were curious and wanted to fine tune the flow rate you could run the 15gtts. in tandem with a 60 gtts.. Get the 15 to about where you want it and then use the 60 to make smaller adjustments. You make a good point about the drip set running out in a power failure. There are all sorts of bad things that can happen if you don’t keep a close eye on them, especially if you’re infusing into a human. That’s why pumps are preferred nowadays. I also thought a fuel shut off solenoid might work to prevent that. Again, really fun vid, my worlds collided in the most unlikely of ways from watching it:-) Subscribed and liked, best of luck to you.

[@loweredexpectations4927]

@@Splash0921 Totally not something that you expect to see, he, haha. I'm glad you were amused. I'm sure I could play with these to get an ideal flow rate / make it more adjustable, but I think a needle valve is likely more practical, if I choose to do this again... Still using the dripper to indicate flow, but not the thing to restrict flow. I have some ideas... but as always, so many ideas, so little time and money, haha.

[@goldcountryruss7035]

Not totally open, has front deck and short wind deflector/shield. Thinking an 8KW version w/ducting a like car. Heater outlet adapter to 4ea 2" hoses 2X for feet & 2x aimed chest height when seated. 8KW= 27,000 BTUH, even assuming a net of 20,000 BTUH that is equal to four of the (unsafe camp fuel powered) Coleman catalytic radiant heaters. The boat will have 6-8" of coaming so limited direct wind when seated. I've decided to start with a single 8KW heater with removable portable remote fuel tank. Anything will feel good on a freezing 20F/-7C morning. We have fishing as low as -10F/-23C but that was hopefully a onetime exception. Breaking ice in the dark in a small boat is indeed scary.

[@loweredexpectations4927]

In almost all cases, the 5 and 8 kw units are in fact actually 5 kw units.... (4.3kw based on fuel consumption tests I have done) This is the case with all brands. I am getting a heater this week from MaxSpeedgrods that is called an 8kw, and it appears as though it may be a 7kw... I will be testing to see. You can get the heater end caps so that it has 4 small outlets, rather than the one large one. That is probably a good option. If you are hoping to have some warm air blow on you, then this may be satisfactory, but the fact that there is no recirculation of the air, the heater is fighting a losing battle (always pulling in cool air and heating it) You will get quite warm air coming out of the heater till around -20 any colder than that and the outlet temp will really start to decrease. Obviously better than whatever the ambient temp is.... If your expectations are set too high, you will be disappointed. -23C is no joke ! ...I just released a video of myself jet skiing at -10C, haha. I also have a silly video of myself in a inflatable suit, out in -18C with a 2kw heater.

[@rtonce]

Regarding those who comment on things they have not actually tried and tested for themselves - You cannot, never, not ever fix stupid. Thanks for giving the rest of us something we might try and test.

[@loweredexpectations4927]

I don't necessarily thing that it is stupid, but some people are that, haha. I think it's easy to start imagining things happening in ways that they don't, in reality ... and once you imagine one part wrong, the rest goes off the rails.

[@Xploring_The_Outdoors]

I have 3 diesel heaters all on original green soft fuel lines never had an issue. Awesome video and information

[@loweredexpectations4927]

It's not as horrible as some make it out to be... it certainly doesn't matter if it flexes and absorbs fuel pump pulses... Of course, quality fuel line is never a bad idea...

[@richardd8352]

Interestingly when I installed one of these in a van, the booklet said replace filter AND fuel lines every six months?? I know the green fuel line isn't supposed to be great - but six months? Surely it will last longer than that

[@loweredexpectations4927]

@@richardd8352 That's just typical corporation lawyers figuring out how to avoid any sort of warranty or insurance claim... because they know this isn't going to happen. So when you come back with any issue, they can say "did you change your fuel line?"

[@richardd8352]

@@loweredexpectations4927 ah yes, makes sense. I'd still be curious to know how long on average that fuel line lasts. I suppose it varies. I can imagine in time it becomes brittle. No way six months though.

[@loweredexpectations4927]

@@richardd8352 It tends to get brittle after a few years, but if it is stationary it's not at all an issue. If it is in a vehicle and supported properly, it is likely not an issue. If it is in something that is bouncing around (like a vehicle) and you have long runs of it that are not supported, it may crank at the locations where it is supported, or leak around fittings.

[@wanglee21]

I love it when you can prove everyone wrong! Great job! For years now everyone has been going purely on myth. lol Glad I saw this video. I was just about to get into the van life setup and you just gave me more knowledge than 99% of the videos I've watched. Honestly this videos deserves the few millions those other misleading info videos have. This needs to be corrected.

[@loweredexpectations4927]

Thanks for the kind comment ! People sometimes like to create stories / problems that are easy to fix. Everyone needs a feeling of accomplishment. To be clear, I'm not saying that rigid line isn't a good idea.... Especially on a vehicle or RV .... The stuff that comes with these heaters is typically pretty low quality and will get brittle over time. "Soft line won't effect the operation of the heater because it is soft." is the overall message here, haha. It's always a good idea to use quality line.

[@dr_jaymz]

What we're saying is the solenoid pump is ideal to start with. I thought the main issue with the crappy fuel line was that it perishes after a couple of years and you end up with diesel everywhere.

[@loweredexpectations4927]

Thanks for the comment. I don't think there is any evidence supporting the idea the pump is ideal for starting. My heater started a bunch of times with 3 -4 drops of fuel. A decent fuel line is much better, and rigid fuel line is good in many applications. I'm just saying that it's not better because the rigidity makes the pressure higher.

[@mikeauxier5478]

Excellent presentation, you are correct about the fuel pump, it only pumps fuel, not pressure. Only pressure will exist if downstream pump line is restricted. Means no restriction no pressure....I'm a Hydraulic and pump technician. Kudos....

[@loweredexpectations4927]

You have no idea how many people still disagree..... Gotta love youtube comments. haha. Thanks.

[@mikeauxier5478]

I think you're doing a great job, keep up the good work...there's nothing like good bench testing@@loweredexpectations4927

[@kentkurt9065]

I agree with you a little . If you have more line it's easyer to push the fuel and air threw the smaller line , Than the bigger line. I have been witnes to this my self

[@loweredexpectations4927]

Absolutely . A smaller diameter line, with the same fuel volume, means higher velocity fuel (or air) and the smaller cross section means air is less likely to get trapped. With very long runs of fuel line, I can see how trapped air could become a problem, I have purchased 30 meters of fuel line and will be testing this. However, the argument is that the rigid line is batter because it is rigid. The claim is that the soft fuel line absorbs power / pressure from the pump and causes running issues. Rigid line can be better in many ways, but not for this reason.

[@Roadghost88]

Interesting. I'm glad you did this. There's a lot of people saying things about diesel heaters that just aren't true and their problems more the result of incorrect adjustment and installation. I wonder if you could use a carb jet to do the metering, with the right size jet you might get the correct number of drips.

[@loweredexpectations4927]

Yes... issues with these heaters is almost always due to some installation error limiting exhaust or inlet flow. They are very sensitive to that. You could find the right size jet, however, some adjustability would be nice. You could use the jet for max flow that was something reasonable and then have the adjuster to lower it from there. A few have suggested a screw needle valve. I think that would probably work really well.

[@TwoUpTourer]

Well that was an eye opener. I fell for the idea too, without ever seriously thinking about the "pressure", but now you point it out, it's self evident you are right. Received wisdom is always worth questioning.

[@loweredexpectations4927]

Thanks for the comment. Sorry for the delay. It is surprising how emotional some people get about this topic. I do think that rigid fuel line has its place, and I never said it was bad. All I'm pointing out in this video is that the pump is there to provide the correct dose of fuel and that soft line will not affect the performance.

[@rizzblue1]

By varying the hight of the fuel supply, you could adjust the fuel pressure

[@loweredexpectations4927]

This is true... If you depended 100% of the height, you would have to constantly raise the fuel tank to keep the fuel flowing. That gives me an insane idea for mounting the tank on a balance beam and using the decreasing mass of fuel to raise the tank and control the fuel flow....🤣 what a nightmare that would be.

[@tjhouston4916]

I got impatient with the pump priming after I took the heater apart to clean it. I primed the line manually with a plastic mustard bottle, just letting the fuel flow into the line with no pressure. After a bit, when the line itself should have been filled, it still kept taking more. Then I had an oh-oh moment and stopped. I started it up anyway with some apprehension. Shut it down right away because it was smoking pretty good. So I knew it was just a straight shot into the burner. I was thinking my pump was shot because of the extremely tiny amount of fuel coming out. Thanks for your videos, they clear up a lot of things about these heaters. No there isn't any pressure in the line. In fact I'm surprised that the pump keeps up with the burn. Great videos.

[@loweredexpectations4927]

LOL.... Awesome story, thanks for sharing. Even tho the pump states the volume on the side of it, it was interesting for me to see that it took 3 pulses of the pump to make one drip of diesel... goes to show how little they really flow. These heaters are engineered incredibly well and it's shocking they work as well as they do, especially for the price !

[@examplerkey]

You are probably rewalking the path of the original inventor of the diesel heater. I salute you for doing all these experiments. I guess at the end of your experiments, you will probably arrive at the same conclusion that a pump is needed 😅 and somehow pump and fan speeds are optimized by the ECU to give the cleanest burn. The pump also pumps up the fuel if you happen to install the fuel tank below/beside the heater. It also stops the fuel from leaking out after the heater stops working, as you described.

[@loweredexpectations4927]

Haha... I love experimenting 🤪 I would never dispute that a pump is ... needed, or at least in all practical terms, is needed. This test was simply to prove that fuel delivery does not require any forceful injection or pulses. As long as the fuel makes it's way to the heater, in the correct quantity, it's going to work just fine. Many have made the argument (including one very popular heater tuber) that soft line expands during pump pulses. This expansion weakens the injection of the fuel and causes problems. I'm not sure if these claims were made out of boredom, or just because the guy is a good storyteller, but this myth has spread all over the internet, haha. What I'm doing in this video is pure silly... other than in an emergency situation where your pump died and you were going to freeze to death, this has no practical application.... but it's still fun.

[@examplerkey]

Yes I heard about this debate. If your argument is about whether or not a pump is needed in an emergency situation, you're right. Your experiment proves so. You can drip feed it without a pump. On the other hand, if your argument is about whether or not the original flexible large bore fuel pipe supplied with the heater expends (and therefore its consequences) when the pump ticks, that's a totally separate argument, because as much as you'd like to disagree, that famous/stupid 😂 ytber is correct, I'm afraid. Have a look at John McK 47's Part 11 - Fuel Delivery video. @@loweredexpectations4927

[@Moonlightshadow-lq4fr]

Good information, This shows if the fuel pump fails you can always hook up in emergencies. The difference between using a drip feed for patients and as an oil dripper is that not many hospitals go down to zero degrees and then warm up during the day. Whatever they drip into you is more or less at a very constant temperature so the viscosity of the liquid will remain the same and same drip rate. A light bulb could replace the pump as a resistor.

[@loweredexpectations4927]

Thanks for the comment ! Yes, hospitals, and vet clinics, where I got my IV, all use pumps to control and monitor the flow, as well. The adjuster is there for emergency situations... Nurses and vet techs are trained to count out drips if necessary, but it never really gets used. You are the second or third person to suggest the light bulb... I was curious if this would work, so I gave it a try. As I suspected, the ECU is too smart. It recognizes the bulb as a dead short and won't work. You would need to check the resistance of the pump and then match that resistance for it to work 👍 maybe a few bulbs or a LED.

[@Moonlightshadow-lq4fr]

the lower the wattage the higher the resistance so a light bulb that uses the equivalent watts of the pump should work.@@loweredexpectations4927

[@chrisharrell2449]

What you have said makes sense. As far as fuel pressurisation. But in my opinion, you should still change your line if you want. if you want it to last for a long period of time. as soft pipe may deteriorate within about 12 to 18 months. I would also guess UV light may have. some Affect. on Deterioration of pipes if open to light in some cases.

[@loweredexpectations4927]

Absolutely ... There are many reasons to change to change to a rigid line, or even just a good quality line. I was simply disputing this one statement. Rigid line, in many cases, especially for longer runs, makes more sense.

[@chuckparson6712]

Excellent work Sir, thank you for taking the time to debunk the majority and actually proving the point, very well 👍👍

[@loweredexpectations4927]

I have also recently purchase 30 metres of fuel line and plan on performing some ridiculous tests. I imagine I will be pushing the heater to failure... but we will see what it takes.

[@DanDan-yy8sf]

Great information for emergency situations. 👍🏼

[@loweredexpectations4927]

You should see what I have coming soon .... 😁 Cough... no ecu...

[@randybobandy9828]

You could also wire up a relay that opens the drip line when the unit turns on and 12v is applied to it, that way when it powers off the fuel line shuts

[@loweredexpectations4927]

That could work. Thanks for the comment.

[@CheapskateProjects]

Maybe a solenoid valve connected to the pump lines with a capacitor? It would keep the line open when the pump would be running and make some resistance to keep the error codes away. Or if that doesn't work (not enough pixies per pump cycle to keep the solenoid open until next pump cycle) then you could just load capacitor or trigger timing circuit with it and use separate mosfet to open the solenoid based on that. Anyhow you can both mimic the pump to prevent error code and only give diesel when pump would be running.

[@randybobandy9828]

@@CheapskateProjects ya, and you could use the connection that the original pump used to tap into the 12v power.

[@loweredexpectations4927]

@@CheapskateProjects For sure. WIth a little circuitry and trickery, it's absolutely doable.

[@martinpanks992]

Well said Joel I've been having a Facebook argument this week about the heaters running on a wicking method and not under pressure and this puts it all to bed for me..🙂

[@loweredexpectations4927]

Haha... best to avoid those arguments, but I'm glad this helps. Fuel needs to make it to the heater (at the right volume). Period.

[@ascott6804]

The vid we didnt know we needed. Good job!!

[@loweredexpectations4927]

The answer to the question you didn't know you had. Thanks !

[@6wheeladventure]

Love this. Can you also do a video on whats inside the pump ? Piston or ball bearing ? Thanks !

[@loweredexpectations4927]

Thanks for the comment. I have wanted to do this for a long time and assumed that my pump would die... but haven't been able to kill it, haha.... I'm going to have to get a new one and cut the new one apart !

[@rafecullop2690]

It's a solenoid fired piston with a check valve the piston size is equal to pump rating so 22ml is 22ml volume piston

[@loweredexpectations4927]

@@rafecullop2690 That's basically right, but it's 22ml for 1000 pulses ... the the piston displacement is .022ml.

[@fenceup07944931177]

I'm glad your old heater is still working. I got my old sweeping brush working, I just swapped out the head, and put a new handle on it. Good as new 😂. "Only fools and horses work" UK reference

[@loweredexpectations4927]

Right on ! Keeping that old stuff running. Way better and more satisfying than just getting new junk. Never heard that before, had to read it twice to understand.

[@werner.x]

That's, why the UK is in poor condition today! But no offense, we in Germany have forgotten too, what makes a country prosper.

[@loweredexpectations4927]

@@werner.x It's spreading all over the world .

[@tstuart7333]

Great advice and video. Many thanks for sharing the knowledge. There will always be the so-called self proclaimed "I know better professionals) speculators and armchair nothing to do advisors. Well there is always something to be learned from others. My guess is tat most and the majority of the critics know no better as the chances are they have never do a thought testing method, or wouldn't know were to begin. Thanks for sharing. I'm sure if it works for you, then it works for others. They just need to give it a try.

[@loweredexpectations4927]

There are a lot of good reasons to be confused about how things and physics works. We all talk in general terms with an understanding of the idea behind the message... This is a much more efficient way to communicate. It can also lead to people clinging onto a specific word or phrase and creating a situation that doesn't match reality. These ideas are often much more fun / romantic to believe than the truth. Every man in his shop likes to feel like he's making things better.... and if you can get the feeling of making things better by adding $16 of fuel like that's awesome... Then some prick on the internet comes along and tries to take that away from you. Haha... Humans are tender beings, even the tough ones... I'm no excepting and my ego and ignorance can and has gotten in the way. I try to acknowledge it and move on. 🤟

[@jamespurser357]

But how well would the drip work with a stock heater

[@loweredexpectations4927]

This is actually now in stock configuration. I have replaced the burn chamber for this video. I mentioned this briefly at some point in the video, but good call !

[@jamespurser357]

Great news,

[@loweredexpectations4927]

@@jamespurser357 Haha... indeed.

[@jasonclemente4392]

Its pretty sad that we have come to having to prove shit. Like how many times hes shown its not fake. I wish we can go back and fix this

[@loweredexpectations4927]

Haha.👍

[@lwa8363]

Just a thought…. To tell it more accurately (and to some more understandable) It is really not a Fuel Pump, but rather a Dosing Pump controlled by Frequency by all or most manufacturers. 😊

[@loweredexpectations4927]

Yeah.... they are clearly called "dosing pumps" because they deliver a specific "dose" or volume of fuel. 👍

[@MrBobWareham]

Very nice setup, so if it's not a pump, what is it? Some sort of metering device, my next question is what head do you need to give to get the flow to work? and why not just change the pump thing for a simple 12 volt solenoid valve, loved the video, so joined your channel

[@loweredexpectations4927]

It is simply gravity feed with a IV dripper. The OEM "pump" is a dosing pump, that delivers .022ml per one cycle. If the tank is above the heater at all, the fuel will flow in and the heater will run. How high the fuel is will change how much potential fuel flow you have, and this is also why you wouldn't want to just use a solenoid valve. as your flow rate would change over time. I'm glad you liked the video.

[@curmudgeinnak]

how about putting a toggle switch on the power of the pump?

[@loweredexpectations4927]

Not sure I know what you mean. Toggle it on until the heater is running and then toggle it off ?

[@wallacefrey6247]

Pretty neat experiment. This is the first time that I have ever seen a diesel anything run off of an IV.

[@loweredexpectations4927]

Next up... can it run without an ECU ? ...

[@wallacefrey6247]

I was wondering if it would run with just the fan and glow plug myself.@@loweredexpectations4927

[@Wrenchmonkey1]

You absolutely can! The easiest way would be as simple as using PWM motor speed controllers to control fan motor speed and glow plug temp. You can use a handheld tachometer and a laser pyrometer to figure out the proper settings for your motor speed and glow plug temp. And then just use the IV drip chamber for fuel. Like you said, you'd obviously never want to run it this way unattended, but as a proof of concept, it would work just fine. Just make sure you buy PWM controllers with a high enough amperage rating to handle the current draw of the glow plug and fan motor. I don't recall the exact numbers, do you'd want to verify it before buying parts, but I believe the glow plug draws about 6-10 amps, and the fan draws around 2-3. You can get controllers rated in those current ranges for about $5 and $10, respectively, so you'd be about $15 all in. You could save a few bucks just by manually switching the power to the glow plug. But running it at full power will probably reduce the life of the glow plug. If you wanted to add some other features like heat exchanger temp monitoring, that would also be pretty easy to do with a simple thermocouple, as you've done in the past.

[@ductorman]

I see you test everything. I would like to know what the amp draw is after the start up when the glow plug cuts out.

[@loweredexpectations4927]

Are you asking for a video or you just want to know ? haha. Depending on the heat setting, it is between 40 and 50 watts.

[@ductorman]

Thank you. I doubt you can make a whole video on that amp draw. I was thinking of using a 24 volt drill battery to run it. I already ordered the step down converter twice. The first was only rated at 10 amps, I just ordered a 30 amp one that might get here before the first one.@@loweredexpectations4927

[@ductorman]

I see I replied to the wrong comment. I'm pretty sure that a substantial tool battery would work to power the Devor, but the scary part would be the battery going dead and the damaging the heater. There is a module that would shut the heater off to save the battery and I think an in-line relay relay could switch on another battery and maybe an alarm to let you know you are on reserve power and even maybe start the sequence to do the Devor shut-down. To simply answer your question in your reply.......YES! @@loweredexpectations4927

[@DonziGT230]

Thanks for clearing this up. Every time I saw someone talking about the need for a better fuel hose I wondered why since I didn't see any way that it would be pressurized. If one were to put something like a mister nozzle on the end, with enough pressure to atomize the fuel, would it improve the burn efficiency/cleanliness?

[@Wrenchmonkey1]

Yeah, I've always questioned it too. I think the only way it might be an issue if you have a really long run between the pump and the heater, and it's having to push it a ways uphill. Even then, I think it would still work fine, as long as the pump can't backflow... I've never actually checked a pump to see if it has a check valve, but even if it doesn't the solution would be as simple as installing a check valve. For me, I am running my fuel lines under a toy hauler that sees a lot of gravel roads, so I ran the hard lines. I'm planning on upgrading to a MUCH larger and permanent fuel tank, and when I do that, I plan on just running stainless steel hardline from the tank, at which point, the fuel supply system will easily outlast the trailer, no matter how much gravel gets flung at it...

[@loweredexpectations4927]

Thanks for the comment and question. If you could get the mist to happen in the burn chamber, then yes, a mist would help... I am trying to build a custom burner for this purpose. The problems are many when trying to do this with the stock heater, though. First problem is that the fuel enters into the glow plug area (preburn chamber) and needs to do this so that the heater can initiate the burn. You don't want fuel just spraying onto the glow plug, as the plug turns off after start up and the fuel wouldn't burn.... so the mister would have to be located after the plug in the burn chamber.... then it would have no way to initiate the burn. This is one of the easier problems to solve, and there are many more, haha. The bottom line is that these heaters burn REALLY clean when set up correctly, as is evident from my testing so adding a mist system would be added complexity for very little or no gains.

[@DonziGT230]

@@loweredexpectations4927 Despite having watched many of your videos about these, I still don't know the exact relationship between the fuel nozzle, burn chamber, mesh, and glow plug so it's hard for me to fully understand it. I think if you were to spray the fuel at the glow plug it would stay hot enough to keep the fire going.

[@loweredexpectations4927]

​@@DonziGT230 I don't blame you for thinking that... However, in order to start reliably, the glow plug is surrounded with a mesh tube. This allows the fuel to spread out and vaporize, allowing the flame to start quickly. This design requires the plug and mesh to be in a enclosed area. An enclosed area is not ideal for mist or for the main burn. To get the correct air volume in this small space the air speed would be very high and would require more pressure. The likelihood of flaming out would be very high. For your main burn area you want a good air volume without a lot of air speed. If you are misting fuel in and it is burning, you also need open space for the gasses to expand so that you don't have a pressure spike... a pressure spike will cause the flow of air to stop, or reverse. In my burn chamber design where I used mist, I basically used no mist to start the heater and allowed the fuel to drool in onto the glow plug. Once the flame started, air pressure was slowly added so that the flame could transition between the pool of burning fuel to the mist of fuel. The folks who designed these heaters all those years ago really knew what they were doing... and altho they seem pretty simple, there is a LOT of thought and engineering involved.

[@unknown-ql1fk]

This is a GREAT shop heater option. But you need to put a temperature sensor-relay with a normally closed fluid selonoid in line with the fuel to shut the fuel off if the temps dropped below a set point. You would need a bypass to start it or a lighter to heat the probe but it would detect a flame out or dead cooling fan and kill the diesel

[@mlindholm]

I was having the same thought about a normally-closed solenoid as a safety mechanism. Could add a push button override for starting like when lighting a pilot light on gas appliances until the flame sensor is hot enough.

[@loweredexpectations4927]

Yeah... If you were doing this as your permanent setup, you would certainly want to make sure that you had some safeties in place. It would also be advisable to have a overheat protection where it closed the valve if it gets too hot. Even if it switches back on after it cools. My old heater cuts the fuel flow in half when it reaches 210 and goes back to normal when it reaches 208. If you wanted to be really clever, you could have a set of valves and inline restrictors that allow a preset fuel flow. For start up you could have one that operates between room temp and 60, then two on until 210 and one closes after 210 ... It could be so much fun, haha. To stop the first one (room temp to 60C) from coming on in the event of a flame out it could either be on one minute timer, or ... I forget what it's called ... The opposite of a latching relay, maybe. It stays energized till you cut power, but requires power and ground to re energize, so you'd have to switch it on for start up.

[@petethewrist]

OK now put the drip below the heater as you can the pump. Your drip. Won't work but the pump does as it builds up presure to beat gravety. Hence presure. Mind you you will get this presure no matter what pipe you use soft or hard. Mind you I use the hard pipe every time.

[@loweredexpectations4927]

So many people seem to have gotten stuck on the word pressure... I thought I was clear about what this video was about. As you say, soft of hard line doesn't matter. What I'm debunking is "if you're not using rigid line you'll lose pressure". The line has no realistic effect on the pressure because the pressure is so low. Anything that has mass has pressure, so when I say "no pressure" I don't literally mean no pressure. That being said. People overlook my setup. It is not actually being fed the pressure of gravity, though I would forgive anyone for thinking this. It would only be fed gravity pressure if there was no restrictor valve, and the restriction was the heater. Meaning, the fuel on the bottom side of the restrictor is at a much lower pressure than on top of the restrictor. If the valve was closed, the pressure in the line would actually be negative.... a vacuum gauge would measure - and would increase as fuel was allowed to flow.

[@petethewrist]

@@loweredexpectations4927 of course it is using gravity. Even after the drip. It still need gravity.

[@loweredexpectations4927]

@@petethewrist Hmmmm .... perhaps I need to explain myself better. The fuel between the container and the chamber has a certain pressure. If you block the lone at the chamber, you can calculate the pressure based on the mass of diesel and the height. This would be the max pressure of gravity on this system. However, the line is not blocked at the chamber, and the opening at the chamber is completely free flow. The restriction in the fuel line is where the majority of the pressure is being exerted. Hopefully we can agree on this much. Now... if the fuel line is hanging in mid air, and fuel is coming out the end of it in drips, what is the pressure of these drips ? This is what is happening, only it doesn't even come out in drips, it comes out as capillary action, with the fuel sticking to the walls of the glow plug entrance. So... If there is a pressure, and I'm not convinced that you can call it that, as the fuel is in free fall with no restriction, how would this pressure be measured ? Pressure requires a restriction and the only restriction is the friction of the fuel due to its own viscosity and the surface of the metal. Does this make sense ?

[@petethewrist]

@@loweredexpectations4927 gravity has the same force on any object regardless of size. The point is is that there is pressure. Enough to feed the thing. Good video over all.

[@loweredexpectations4927]

@@petethewrist Yes, gravity has the same force, but that force doesn't always cause pressure, and the more there is if an object the more it weighs. Pressure is the resistance of force. Gravity has the same force on air molecules at the top and bottom of a mountain (essentially) but the pressure is different. This is the same thing as our gravity feed. What causes the pressure at the bottom of the mountain, is the molecules stacked on top of the ones at the bottom. What causes the pressure in the gravity feed system, is the column of fuel on top, all of it being forced down by gravity, in a sealed / contained system. Just like you can measure pressure in inches of mercury, you can measure inches of diesel, or water, or orange juice haha. When there is about 29 inches of mercury in a tube, with the top capped off but the bottom open, the force of gravity on the mercury is enough to cause an almost perfect vacuum where the tube is capped off, and the mercury will not fall out of the tube. While gravity applies the same force on all of the mercury, the pressure is not the same for all of the mercury.

[@timinatorb3444]

I wonder if you could put a normally closed liquid solenoid valve in line with the fuel line, and have it wired into the fuel pump wires so the pulses, with the help of a capacitor circuit, would keep the valve open, but if the power shut down, the fuel line would be closed.

[@loweredexpectations4927]

This could work. The issue would be that the ECU needs to see the proper resistance or it will not start / operate . There may be a way to do it. I have a video coming this weekend where I remove the ECU and run the heater using only a 12V battery and some light bulbs, haha.

[@irishassasin1]

i’m a nurse and i guarantee if you put a “dial a flow” restrictor on their you would have much easier time

[@loweredexpectations4927]

That would be WAY better. Thanks. I have since installed a needle type valve and use the dripper to monitor. This is just for testing / curiosity sake, as it is not very safe, but it works a lot better.

[@mikewalsh511]

Is there a way to take an ohm measurement of the fuel pump and then substitute a fixed resistor across the wires so the ECU doesn't know any different?

[@loweredexpectations4927]

Yes... this should be possible. I have not tried it, but that makes sense.

[@Colin6712]

Can you do the same test with the white hard fuel pipe I would like to if there any difference between hard and soft fuel pipes, brilliant video

[@loweredexpectations4927]

Thanks for the comment. I believe David McLuckie did hard vs soft using a otherwise stock heater. I may do this test with rigid line in the future.

[@SR-gt350]

Joel, thanks for the drip info! Can't wait to try it

[@loweredexpectations4927]

I think it actually states this clearly in the owner's manual ... "In case of fuel pump failure, 80 drips per minute on max level is the ideal AFR for 3500 ft elevation."

[@sanasilviu5408]

hey dont know if someone said regarding the continous dripping u can put an electrovalve that is always on when the pump is receiving signal dont know the voltage .....but its shuts off when pump stops receiving signals, maby an additional circuit because i asume the signal is pwm or an ac electrovalve is required sorry english is not my first language

[@loweredexpectations4927]

Thanks for the comment. Yes, this would require extra circuitry, as the power from the pump is pulsed. I believe you can even get a device called a "delay relay" where it requires a certain amount of time after it stop receiving signal power to shut off. They used them in an old Polaris snowmobile EFI system in the 90S Your English is pretty good 👍👍

[@berndkonemann5049]

Don't listen to others. If they make references to other youtubers, that means they them self's have no clear understanding... Well done and very good practical example of a theoretical "discussion".

[@loweredexpectations4927]

If nothing else, these comments drive me to make videos that educate others.... and I have changed a few people's minds... that's always good.

[@berndkonemann5049]

That is MORE than good ! Well done. Little question: Changing the diameter of the fuelline but keeping the same pump, will that influence the fuel consumption ? Thank you Bernie @@loweredexpectations4927

[@billparker8954]

It's cool that now we know that the fuel "pump" is a metering device. What really blows my mind is that the exhaust is running straight into your living space without killing you.

[@loweredexpectations4927]

HAHA... yes... Thanks for not attacking me about my exhuast. Some people don't understand, so they decide to lash out... Saying "it blows my mind" seems like a better approach.👍 I wouldn't recommend venting your exhaust inside, but when you understand CO and CO poisoning, this isn't really that dangerous or shocking (for a short test) The real danger is the TVOC as they can stick with you for a long time. These pumps are actually called "dosing pumps" so the clue is in the name... they tried to tell us and we ignored them, haha. I did nother video recently where I talk more about the actual dangers of CO and what the different levels will do. I linked some OSHA info in the description of that video.

[@cumulusvapes7]

I have seen that the replacements are called "dosing" pumps. ( A dosing pump is a positive displacement pump that is designed to inject a chemical or any other substance into the flow of water, gas or steam. Dosing pumps are typically small and provide an extremely precise flow rate for maximum control )

[@RustyShakleford1]

Just thought of something if you run a 12v solenoid valve series in your fuel line it could be on a temperature controlled switch or somehow paralel with the fan?? So when the fans on and energized 12v valve flows fuel. When fans off 12v solenoid valve off? Or would it need another pulse to turn off and not just cease power flow to the fan?

[@RustyShakleford1]

Just quickly looked up how electric solenoid valves work. It should work in parallel with the fan or possibly in series depending on the valve amp rating. That way as soon as the battery runs out for the 12v fan bam fuel cuts off. Or when it overheats or accidentally flames out or from improper fuel air or carbon buildup or a backdraft from wind. Once the controller notices temperature dropping for ANY reason it will shut power down to the fan and ideally shutoff all fuel flow to the iv dripper valve

[@loweredexpectations4927]

Something like this is possible. A normally closed solenoid so if the battery power went out / the fan stops the fuel shuts off. Having it temperature controlled is ideal so that if the heater flames out, the fuel also stops.👍

[@loweredexpectations4927]

Actually connecting it to the fan power would not work, as the ECU will see the extra / different load as a problem (if it is too far out of spec) and trigger a fault code and shut the heater down. This would require a secondary board that took signal from the fan, but used a separate power source. (not power from the fan) This idea otherwise is a good way to go about doing it.

[@RustyShakleford1]

@loweredexpectations4927 solenoids use next to no power and on a lower than max fan setting it shouldn't throw a code. Worse case scenario you could use a relay with tiny resistor in paralel with fan if the solenoid draws that many amps

[@RustyShakleford1]

@@loweredexpectations4927 let me know if it works you legend thanks for sharing

[@JoshMillikan]

i have seen the drip method used a lot in old diesel oil/waste oil conversions for wood stoves. so not a huge surprise that it works well. always nice to find other ways to get the same thing to work. it would be fun to fabricate a new external housing for the burner that allowed it to be used as a water heater. pumping water over the housing instead of air. i haven't set mine up yet but i like the ideas of sending the exhaust through a radiator before it goes outside to extract more heat from it.

[@loweredexpectations4927]

Yeah... the problem / confusion is that people hear "diesel" and they think "diesel engine" ... People make a lot of assumptions.... Videos and posts saying "everything you need to know about X" or "You need to know these 5 heater hacks". "What they aren't telling you about your heater" .... those sort of videos do really well.... so a LOT of people who know nothing about these heaters do a quick google search and make one of these sensationalized videos, just for the views. "it would be fun to fabricate a new external housing for the burner that allowed it to be used as a water heater." I have been strongly considering this. I also want to do the radiator exhaust thing...

[@SR-gt350]

​@@loweredexpectations4927I saw a British video on the heater where they put the exhaust thru a European wall radiator. Of course it needed a drain to drain the water vapor from the exhaust

[@loweredexpectations4927]

@@SR-gt350 I've been wanting to do this with a modern hydronic heater / heat exchanger for a year now... but can't justify the cost.... and with the waste oil testing I was doing, anything I used would have been clogged, haha.

[@SR-gt350]

@@loweredexpectations4927 ya, the way you exhausted it onto the garage would recover 100% heat as long as you're OK with water vapor and adjusting for CO as well have CO detectors.

[@loweredexpectations4927]

@@SR-gt350 Venting into my garage is not a long term solution, heh... Merely for testing. I feel like regardless of how careful you are, this is not a good idea is you are depending on it for heat. There are many fun and creative ways to capture heat from the exhaust, and even of you lose a few percent outside, it's worth it to avoid the health risks. Death takes care of all of your health problems, unfortunately there are a lot of other hazards from exhaust gasses, haha.

[@delislac]

I just thought the kinda solid hose was to reduce bubble building up. I love the green (orange) hose because it is easier, quicker and less joints to install. I still don't understand why there is no better pump yet invented to replace those annoying pumps. Your test was confirming some of my thoughts about the subject, thank you for this.

[@loweredexpectations4927]

The rigid line has it's place, but it's not a "must have" like many claim. There are a few companies that make a siglent pump called a Peristaltic pump... David McLuckie tests one... I believe.

[@gabormolnar4700]

@delislac Search for James Browning Smith diesel heater pump..

[@rushymoto]

Can they run ok with the exhaust and air ports pointing upwards? Or has it have to point down ? It will be better to mount in an outdoor housing and have a vertical chimney., the only thing I can think of is condensate buildup

[@loweredexpectations4927]

They say not to run them upside down because of where the fuel runs into the chamber... it could actually run out, instead of in. Having a look at the chamber, I can say that upside down would not work, unfortunately.

[@JcSr.]

Ok I’ve had nothing but issues with fuel pumps the original lasted about a year and all the ones I’ve gotten since only last a couple uses. I’m in California and all the popular pumps on Amazon can’t ship to me , should I drop big money on a name brand pump. The unit I have is 5kw fastracing chines heater .

[@loweredexpectations4927]

I've never had an issue with a fuel pump, but have heard of many who have. My buddy had one dial this year, and we found something growing in his tank. One of mine stopped working, I tapped it with a screwdriver and it has been working for about two weeks now with no issue. I think this can be water in the fuel or debris. I have tortured my pumps with all sorts of things that shouldn't be in there (waste oil, paint thinner, versol, cooking oil, ATF, gasoline, alcohol etc.) and my original pump from over two years ago, still works fine. You may have a problem with the motherboard ... it seems odd that so many pumps would fail... they has to be a reason for failure.

[@nowaistedspace4946]

I just bought one of these heaters and have been watching how to get the most out of the heater. I'm a little confused, why the exhaust isn't insulated to keep more heat inside the first foot or so at the least? Wouldn't that alone, increase the core temps of the machine giving it higher output temps, along with, quicker at getting to those "start up" temps? I'd start off with the correct temps of the air/fuel, that's gonna be mixed together in the burner for the best overall performance. Right? One more thing, what's the highest temperature you've personally recorded? Can you "cherry red" the port? Is that too much? lol I might have a few more questions. I like your channel!

[@loweredexpectations4927]

That is an interesting question, and there is heat lost out the exhaust, but I don't think insulating the exhaust would help. There's no easy way to answer this, as there are a million variables BUT... Basically, the heat exchanger has the ability to capture and release X amount of heat energy. Heat that is escaping out the exhaust has already had opperty to absorb into the exchanger, and the exhaust is literally part of the exchanger. Insulating the exhaust would stop the release of heat out of the walls of the exhaust pipe, but it would only raise the temp of exhaust escaping out the end of the pipe. Another way to explain this is: If you took an acetylene torch and heated the exhaust just below the melting point, very very little heat would travel from the exhaust into the exchanger. While warm air is okay, the warmer your inlet air is, the less oxygen dense it is. The lower oxygen content means a less energetic burn (in some cases) and this is one reason why turbocharged cars use an intercooler (inlet air cooler) On start up, if you plumbed some hot air back into the air inlet, this could have the desired effect of quicker heater warm up times. Not sure that you would want to keep running warm air into it once it is up to temp. Cherry red at the exhaust indicates that you still have combustion happening n the exhaust. I have had this happen, and it makes a LOT of heat, but it also indicates a very inefficient burn. What some people have done, and what I would recommend if you are trying to get the highest efficiency possible, is to use an automotive EGR cooler and retrofit it to scavenge otherwise lost heat, from the exhaust. This adds lots of complexity as you need the EGR cooler, water, a pump and a radiator to get this done effectively.

[@nowaistedspace4946]

@@loweredexpectations4927 Thank you for responding back. I'm saying to insulate only the first 6 or 8" of the exhaust pipe. Wouldn't that help to burn off any fuel not combusted? Should create a colder intake environment and protect the fuel line. I was under the assumption, the colder the intake air, and the hotter the fuel entering the burn chamber, the better and more efficient the heater will run. Adding a variable speed "inlet fan" for increasing the airflow by pulling more air across the heater core, that should increase the amount of heat (along with maybe 6" or 8" length of insulation on exhaust pipe) thru the 3" outlet. Whatever you do after that, first off, you'd want the most heat coming off the core as possible, right? You're pretty smart about these heaters, so I thought I'd run this by you and see if any of this makes sense. I'm enclosing the heater in a 3ft x 8ft x 2ft deep cabinet lined with reflective foil insulation and layered sheets of aluminum underpinning. Like a big air filled radiator. I will control every bit of air going in and coming out of the heater. Kind of "forced funneling" air through the heater, as long as it doesn't affect how the heater operates. Let me know if this is feasible or a dumb idea, I can take it. I have thick skin. lol

[@nowaistedspace4946]

I also will be pulling air from outside the home into the air intake creating a positive air pressure in the room. And I didn't mention the whole exhaust is inside the cabinet along with the 3" output line. Exhaust will be fed into roughly 20 ft of 1" tubing between the layers of aluminum inside the cabinet. Should be zero heat loss from any part of the system by doing it this way. Just a small hole going outside or maybe into a 5 gal bucket of water. Just kidding. lol The 6" of insulation I spoke of is to focus that section of heat back at the combustion chamber to increase the temps and burning off excess gas. Should really help for combusting the waste oil even more. I felt I needed to explain myself a little better, lol

[@loweredexpectations4927]

​@@nowaistedspace4946 If there was any fuel left in the exhaust, this could help burn it, but you would need to add oxygen. These heaters run REALLY clean unless there is a problem., so there is no leftover fuel to burn If there were leftover fuel, the question would be "why is there fuel left over?" Excess fuel, not enough oxygen, or design restriction. Better to address these issues and not have fuel burning in the exhaust than to try burning fuel in the exhaust. Insulating the exhaust could reduce the heat of the fuel and possibly the air. This could allow you to run slightly more fuel and still have complete combustion, theoretically, but the percentage would be very small and you would need to monitor / test to ensure you were still getting a complete burn. Using a secondary fan could make the heater more efficient (stripping more of the heat out of the combustion process). Doing this could / would have some effect on the speed of the existing fan, and that would change the combustion air somewhat. I think this would be worth a try. Monitoring the temp of the exhaust would be the way to see if it was effective. Your idea seems sound. As long as you have enough air getting in to support combustion, and the combustion air isn't too hot. If so, you may want to run the combustion air inlet, outside of the enclosure.

[@nowaistedspace4946]

@@loweredexpectations4927 The 1" intake line is coming in from outside winter environment. Hugging fuel line against the 8" of Fiberfrax insulated exhaust line that came with the heater for increased heat. Putting adjustable covers over the slots in the chassis, cutting the bottom and angling the plate up, directing airflow at the core base, changing that pc of 3" plastic the outflow connects to and making core adapter/cover to round 4" aluminum tubing and adding a 4" inline fan. Exhaust and output tube enclosed together. Exhaust will be pretty much forgotten about and not exiting the cabinet. We'll see if I get any "bad air" or not. I'll deal with it then. I'm trying to produce a "record breaking" "high performance" heating system. Maybe I should have just bought another "Buddy" propane heater. Propane is dirt cheap around here. But I like to tinker and modify, but that's just me. lol Experiment, that's how it gets better.

[@1981dasimpson]

i guess you could use carb jets with very small hole to control drip rate and have it at fixed flow the problem i see is hight of fuel level or tank would alter the flow so as the tank gets lower the the less pressure of the fuel been pushed along the pipe

[@loweredexpectations4927]

A fixed size jet would work for sure, as long as you get the size right. An adjustable needle valve would allow you to slow the fan down and adjust fuel accordingly. The fuel pressure would drop, but this would only cause the heater to lean out slightly. The result from that is just slightly less heat from a full tank compared to an almost empty tank.

[@SR-gt350]

Do you think you could use a needle valve upstream of the drip to have better regulation of the drip. You could use a 1/4" fridge waterline tie in needle valve from lowes or home despot. Also you could have a small 12volt solenoid up stream of the needle valve so if the power to the fuel pump shuts down it normally closes

[@loweredexpectations4927]

The valve idea is great... much better way to control flow... either side of the drip would work I suspect. Something like this would work, however, the fuel pump pulses / power to the pump pulses, so it would have to be triggered in some other way.

[@SR-gt350]

​@loweredexpectations4927 yes, that's what I was thinking about the solenoid valve too. The other power take off is to splice into the fan power

[@loweredexpectations4927]

@@SR-gt350 👍 The problem with splicing into the fan is that the fan will keep going until the heater is fully powered down. You really need something to detect if the heater gets cold ... if the temperature drops below 80C, you want the fuel to shut off. In the video I caused the heater to flame out by stopping the fuel flow, and it cooled all the way from 200C to 64 before it finally realized there was a problem. The fan will continue to run for several minutes after this and that would cause the heater to become really flooded with diesel. This is basically how they do it with the OEM setup... but ideally it would trigger much sooner.

[@SR-gt350]

@loweredexpectations4927 yes, I was thinking the same thing.

[@doc3toes]

Good back up ...wish inadequate an iv line for my camping trip as pump diet.

[@staritpro1775]

Hi , I have a Vevor 8 KW with the new blue controller, we are about 895 feet above sea level so tried the Alpine mode by pressing Gear on left and OK buttons on right at the same time and noticed pump slowed down but fan stayed same. heat exchanger temp drops from 142 degs C to about 112 Degs C. this way uses about a litre in 12 hours. Just for your info.

[@loweredexpectations4927]

Yes... I have one of these as well, with the alpine mode. I am at 3500 feet and my heater runs at about 210 at the normal setting and 185 on alpine mode. I don't think there's any harm in running the heater lean as long as it doesn't run too cool.... You could potentially get soot build up from running in alpine mode at your elevation.

[@staritpro1775]

I am only running it at H1 setting and turn alpine off and run at H6 for 10 minutes to clear out burn chamber before next use.

[@flybobbie1449]

Does the green softer pipe create less noise transmission. I have a peristaltic pump to play with and cheap speed controller. I think i might monitor temperature and pump speed. As you say put resistor to replicate pump coil resistance or just not connect pipes.

[@flybobbie1449]

Question is how to make the heater quieter, get rid of the roar sound. Is from burning or air flow over the fins.

[@loweredexpectations4927]

Yes. The green pipe creates slightly less noise transmission or amplification. The biggest factor seems to be how your pump is mounted and what it is mounted to. Suspending it from a few springs or a spring would likely make a huge difference in most cases. The peristaltic would be cool to play with. As long as it is sized sensibly, it should work well once you dial it in.

[@loweredexpectations4927]

I have found that a lot of the sound can be muted with the "correct length" inlet and exhaust tubes. A lot of the howling noise seems to be due to a resonance frequency. Running an exhaust and no inlet makes them often sound like a pulsejet engine. On air cooled motorcycle engines, they use chunks of rubber with slits cut in them that couple the fins together. Search "air cooled engine fin damper" image on Google. This has a huge effect on an engine, but not sure if it would work on a heater. If the fins are amplifying noise, then it should work.

[@dougbowman5402]

Could you use a needle valve and a 12 volt solenoid to shut the fuel off if there is a failure that would shut the fuel pump of if there were one.

[@loweredexpectations4927]

Yes, that's a good idea. The needle valve gives more control and the shut off valve would stop a potential mess or dangerous situation, if the heater flamed out. 👍

[@patchvonbraun]

A solenoid with a good spring that you can somehow use to squeeze the feed line when there's no power. So if you lose power, or the heater stops burning, the solenoid is de-energized and squeezes the line closed.

[@patchvonbraun]

Or heck, even a normally-closed solenoid valve. Doh!

[@loweredexpectations4927]

For sure... there are ways to do this for sure.

[@loweredexpectations4927]

Haha... yup. That would do the trick !

[@werner.x]

@@loweredexpectations4927 This normally closed solenoid still needs a failsafe mode for flame out without power out. I once realized this for a waste oil burner with a cheap 45°C normally closed temperature switch - in combination with a timer module for startup "sequence", so i didn't have to manually keep the feed open to reach this 45°.

[@loweredexpectations4927]

@@werner.x Agreed... the flame can go out for many reasons. It could get messy VERY quickly.

[@paullapointe9984]

Pretty smart cookie. Thank you kindly 🎉🌿

[@loweredexpectations4927]

Thanks for your comment.

[@pgiii2713]

Well done mate. Keep up the good work!

[@loweredexpectations4927]

Thanks!

[@iguanamoat]

Joel, love your channel. However, I think you may have misunderstood the issue, likely due to the commenters using the wrong terminology. The concern with flexible fuel line is not fuel pressure in the automotive sense, but rather the force of the pulse of fuel that is injected into the pre-burn chamber. Flexible fuel line absorbs or deadens some of the initial pulse from the solenoid, resulting in a weak (but steadier) dribble of fuel onto or under the glow plug screen. Solid nylon line has less give and results in a more forceful (but shorter duration) injection of fuel into the pre-burn chamber, resulting in a wider dispersal of fuel across the screen and onto the glow plug itself. This assists in quicker ignition of the fuel on startup, which leads to less 'startup soot' (from the initial dribble of fuel getting cooked by the glow plug instead of immediately igniting). This may also assist in better/quicker atomization while the heater is running. The total amount of fuel injected is ultimately the same, but the 'spray pattern' (or lack thereof) is not. Somewhat similar to if you had a remotely mounted fuel injector on your car, with a rubber hose running from it to your cylinder - it would still meter the correct amount of fuel (ignoring timing) but fail to disperse it in an easily ignitable way. John McK, one of the original diesel heater youtubers, set up a demonstration of the difference in this video, at about 18 minutes in: kzbin.info/www/bejne/oHS9mZ19rrdmmNE

[@loweredexpectations4927]

I appreciate your comment and your reasonable, polite and thorough way of explaining yourself. I will respectfully try to explain why this is not the case, and I hope not to offend you. I didn't name anyone in my video, but he is one of the people who gets this wrong. 13 minutes in he starts to explain how in your house you have anti knock or anti water hammer devices. He goes on to say this is the last thing you want in your heater. I get how this can be convincing... but if you Google search "dosing pump damper" you will see that he is very wrong. Many of the high end heaters come with dampers to smoothen out the pulses, doing exactly what a soft fuel line would do. While the preburn chamber theory may seem logical, it makes a few incorrect assumptions. Diesel makes soot when it doesn't have enough oxygen to burn completely and has nothing to do with how quickly or slowly it starts to burn. As the heater is running, there is no flame or burning inside the glow plug airea, and it is doused in diesel the entire time your heater is running. The glow plug turns on the cool down cycle go burn this away and prepare for the next start up. This process can often take several seconds as the mesh and plug are soaked. (I know because I have shut the heater down without using the cool down cycle) I have nothing against anyone for believing this, but the fact that they make dampers, and most high end heaters have dampers, should be all you need to know.

[@iguanamoat]

@@loweredexpectations4927 Absolutely no offense taken, if I am wrong, I am wrong, and I appreciate being bluntly told so! You make a great point about the dosing damper. My assumption has been that those are a compromise the manufacturers make to try to mitigate a much more customer-facing and immediately apparent complaint with diesel heaters (pump ticking) at the sacrifice of slightly shorter maintenance intervals or longer-term poor running, which a customer may not notice or care about. However, you could very well be right and it's simply that the manufacturers consider it a complete non-issue. Regardless, it does demonstrate that the lower impulse of the fuel is not a huge or critical issue, if it is even an issue at all. The soot issue I mentioned, I should have explained better, but stupidly the best word I could think of in the moment was 'cooked'. I was essentially trying to describe a rich condition - unignited fuel building up in the heater with no flame, and once the heater does manage to light, fuel air ratio being way off, resulting in soot, smoke, and the heater moaning/vibrating violently as the extra unmetered fuel combusts in an uncontrolled manner, until the heater manages to burn off all the excess. Similar to what happens when voltage drop is too much for the glow plug and it's just not hot enough to quickly ignite the fuel coming in - you can either up the voltage, or bring the fuel in closer contact with the glow plug. I do agree that John McK gets his share of things wrong (this test procedure for measuring exhaust decibels with/without muffler, for instance), however his test does show that the nylon line would very likely cause direct contact of the fuel onto the glow plug, while the flexible line would not. I agree there is no flame in the glow plug area while running and glow plug is off, and I'm definitely unsure if higher fuel impulse would have any affect here. I do think it would result in better atomization, as the fuel would be getting shot into the airstream created by the ignition air inlet hole instead of dribbling down the side of the ignition chamber. However, from the experience you describe, it's clear that the fuel is getting kicked up all over the ignition chamber anyway, possibly due to the turbulence of the inlet air or backblast from the combustion event. Or, possibly, the type of line you use (or short length) allows sufficient impulse to be transmitted. That may be an interesting and relatively easy video idea, if you're not tired of this topic already - trying out different lines and seeing if you can replicate the results John McK got. It's very possible that the flexible, unidentified line he used was just way too soft, and the green weedwacker fuel line that diesel heaters come with is stiff enough that it's not an issue. That would neatly explain all the divergent results and opinions on the topic - impulse might matter, but only in edge cases (unusually flexible or long line, weak fuel pump, large head, etc.) will impulse become so low as to make any sort of difference. Anyway, just a thought.

[@wallacegrommet9343]

The chief advantage of the hard nylon line is its imperviousness to degradation from prolonged exposure to diesel fuel containing biodiesel and other lubricity additives. The ASTM standard for fuel tubing rated for biodiesel blends is not met by most clear flexible fuel hoses.

[@loweredexpectations4927]

@@wallacegrommet9343 Yes, in many cases the nylon fuel line is better, just not for the reasons stated by many.

[@iguanamoat]

@@wallacegrommet9343 Agreed, that is the most important advantage, as it is a safety issue. One big caveat though is that with the cheap diesel heaters, the little bits of rubber hose they provide to link the nylon tube to the fittings are absolute garbage. I've consistently had them start cracking within a year of having regular diesel in them on multiple heaters. I now consider them a 100% no-question must-replace with actual name brand fuel hose from a parts store.

[@flybobbie1449]

I wonder if these are designed for tank to be below the heater as in a vehicle requiring the pump. As you have done what of restricted gravity feed with shut of solenoid.

[@flybobbie1449]

Also using supplied pump have pumped up to 2 metres above fuel tank.

[@loweredexpectations4927]

Not sure if I understand your full comment. These are designed so that you can plae the fuel tank above, or a few feet below. The pump will have enough power to lift the fuel to your heater if it isn't too high. I have purchased 30 metres of fuel line and plan on doing some testing soon.

[@pyewacket9983]

If the pump does not create pressure then why does the fuel seep out of the fuel line connections if not clipped on with the spring pinch rings supplied with the kit ......?

[@loweredexpectations4927]

A lot of people seem to get stuck on the word pressure here. Anything that has mass, creates pressure, fuel sitting in a line has pressure, and that is enough to make it leak.... If the pump, heater and fuel line are all below the fuel tank, then the pump is simply acting as a regulator... Gravity is more than capable of feeding the system. If the heater is a foot over the tank, it will have 12" of diesel pressure and 2 feet 24" of diesel pressure. However, this pressure is at the pump... not at the heater... Not at the chamber. Pressure increases the closer you get to the bottom of a column of fluid and decreases as you go to the top. Where the fuel enters the heater, there is no restriction, so there is no pressure. I'm guessing you still won't agree with this, buy my point was that the system does not depend on the forceful injection of fuel. If fuel seeps into the chamber, the heater will runfine.

[@vanlifesurvivorsguide]

As somebody who fixes these on a daily basis I can tell you that the soft fuel line causes more problems than anything else. It kinks, splits and creates air locks. I have to change fuel lines on people at least once a week and it always fixes the problems. They green stuff might work sometimes but in general it is the wrong stuff to use and will cause more problems than it solves.

[@loweredexpectations4927]

I don't doubt that you see a lot of fuel line issues, especially if you deal with RV and vehicle installs. I have been a mechanic for 30+ years and see lots of fuel lines cracking, turning to goo or just getting so hard they are impossible to deal with. I didn't once dispute that cheap fuel line was as good or better, I think I even recommended good fuel line. I know for a fact that not all soft fuel line is created equally, as I have a 1989 Yamaha watercraft and the fuel line is like new... I believe neoprene based ? What I am arguing / showing in this video is that the pulse of the pump or pressure of the pump has no effect on the operation of the heater whatsoever... it is there to deliver the fuel, and doesn't have to do it in a forceful way to be effective. Rigid line is great for some applications, but it's not better because it allows a stronger pulse to be delivered to the heater. When buying soft line, one problem is knowing what you are actually getting... You almost have to go to a trusted local supplier, or you could end up with crap.

[@vanlifesurvivorsguide]

@@loweredexpectations4927 Yeah I agree with that the atomiser doesn't need it to be squirted on to it dripping is fine. Yeah I think the stuff they send is for water pumps in fish tanks or is very similar to say the least.

[@Urge38]

Well What to say!!! Entertaining video BUT NOTHING NEW Google Dickson or refleks diesel drip feed heater Burning oil is NOTHING new One thing I would like to say Your recommendations of safe CO levels is WAY WAY out Please don't be advising people on this unless you have the correct information Indoor co levels should be no more than 9ppm for 8 hours Max of 35 ppm for no more than a hour and 100 max for 15 minutes

[@faffybubs9099]

What he's missing is the bore size creates air locks from pressure bubbles. A problem I fix constantly

[@loweredexpectations4927]

​@@faffybubs9099 I have ordered 30 metres of fuel line to test... I plan on purposely introducing massie air pockets... However , what you are missing is that I didn't dispute anything about air. I didn't claim that rigid line isn't better, or that small diameter line isn't better. This wasn't an attack on rigid line.... What I am disputing is simple. Rigid line isn't better because it leads to a stronger pulse being delivered to the burn chamber. Softer line isn't bad because it is too soft, causing a weak pulse to be delivered to the burn chamber. I can absolutely see how air (or vapours from cavitation) in the line can become an issue. If you have your pump close to the tank, and a giant bubble between the heater and pump, this bubble is a spring. The fuel delivery will likely be somewhat unpredictable (not enough at times, and too much at others - like after the heater has powered off) I also suspect that this is much more of a problem in anything that moves around and in an RV or vehicle install with a LONG lines. Most people harping about this in blog posts, forums and on video comments, have an all-in-one heater with 2 feet of line, or 3 feet of line and the heater in their greenhouse.

[@BlondieHappyGuy]

Good video! Proving what most of us knew. There's no pressure in those lines. I do suggest, however, that you check your like for the CO detector. What pops up is NOT the one you are using. In fact, it's one that is known to be a fake! The "CO2" sensor turns out to be an alcohol sensor! This is why everyone reports that CO2 detection doesn't work. For those who have that unit and understand the different sensors, you can prove if yours has a real CO2 sensor or the alcohol sensor, faking as a CO2 sensor. Simple take some Isopropyl Alcohol, perhaps put it on a napkin or something, then surround the unit with the dampened napkin. If it's a fake sensor (alcohol) the numbers should go nuts. If it's a real CO2 sensor, then there should be no reaction at all to the alcohol! This is a little trick that I learned long ago when I bought a bunch of different sensors for a project I was building. I discovered that some of the sensors were marked for what they were supposed to detect, but they didn't detect those particular gases. But with alcohol, some went nuts while others did nothing at all, with any gas, including what they were supposed to detect. There's a LOT of fakery going on these days.! But seriously, I'd suggest removing that link because you are guiding people towards a dangerous product. Perhaps you can find the exact monitor you are using in the video. That one seems to work well. Just a thought. Thanks for your video.

[@loweredexpectations4927]

I have had this warning for several people about the CO meter. I have done lots of testing, and from all accounts, mine seems to be real. I'm sure that many of them sold on amazon are fake, but both of the meters I have, surprisingly, worked well for me, and stood up to all my testing. I did try exposing my air quality meter to different chemicals, can't remember if it was alcohol, but only the tvoc went up.

[@BlondieHappyGuy]

@@loweredexpectations4927 I'm apologize. I wasn't 100% clear. Just for clarity, the one that you have in your hand is NOT the one the link points to. So what I wonder is if that was your intention, or if Amazonian is messing with rerouting links. I've actually see it before and in fact, even on my own orders, where I go to check something that I've ordered, click the link to go to what I ordered and all of a sudden, it now links to a totally different product. Interestingly enough, I did find one that physically looks like the one you have, just a different color and brand name. I figure, it's probably the same, just rebranded. The reviews on that one, if I remember, aren't bad at all. But it's not close to what I see in your like. Have you checked out your link right now to confirm that it does go to the one in your hand? Just curious.

[@BlondieHappyGuy]

Ok, I just did a little digging and the one that the link points to, at least in my region, is a larger one with a black body and orange face. On the face it says, CMTOOL. It has a full LCD with a blue background. The display shows: HCHO TVOC CO2 temp and humid at the bottom. No where near what you have in your hand. LOL Unless that was your intention, I suspect that amaz did a redirect for some reason.

[@loweredexpectations4927]

@@BlondieHappyGuy Oh... I have the CMTOOL meter as well as a basic CO meter.... Maybe that's where the confusion comes from.

[@XCX237]

Can you move that fuel line out from between intake and exhaust ports ? I had thought of bending the tube to make the fuel line come out the side for hook up?

[@loweredexpectations4927]

That could be done. The only time I ever had an issue was when my exhaust caught on fire inside (from burning waste oil). The pipe was glowing red and it caused the line to bubble a little. The line comes out the side of the aluminum body, through a grommet, and then goes down out the bottom. They do this because they were designed to be mounted on the floor of an RV or truck, and you would have the fuel tank outside.

[@bikerboymc54]

I ordered a bureck CD thermostat for my heater

[@loweredexpectations4927]

Cool... I have received mine but haven't had time to test it yet.

[@bikerboymc54]

@@loweredexpectations4927 From everything I've seen you shouldn't be disappointed at all. I think it blows the afterburner out of the water.

[@loweredexpectations4927]

@@bikerboymc54 I think the Afterburner serves a purpose. It has much more functionality, but I think the CD is much more straightforward.

[@bikerboymc54]

@@loweredexpectations4927 The afterburner would be okay for somebody like you That likes to play around with these things and see what's going on but I just want consistent heat, it has so many features that id never use. I like the bureck For my purposes, and it's just so easy to set up no wires, probes and it's more user-friendly

[@bigdaddyz376]

Great work. You are the authority on these machines. Haters gonna hate....

[@loweredexpectations4927]

Thanks for the comment. Much appreciated.

[@goldcountryruss7035]

Which brand/model heater would you use to warm a small open fishing boat?

[@loweredexpectations4927]

You want to warm an open fishing boat ? I'm not sure how this would work. Maybe I just don't know what an "open fishing boat" is.... For anything open you are going to need massive amounts of BTU (kwh). For brands, you can't go wrong with the high end ones like Planar, Espar and Webasto, but they will cost you 10 times what a chinese copy will. The high end ones will come with sealed electrical connectors, so that's good for a boat. They also come with better quality exhaust and muffler, from everything I've heard. The chinese copies are all about the same with a few differences / preferences. I have only tested Vevor units and have some 5 kw units linked in the description of this video. If you are trying to heat the enclosed area at the front of a fishing boat, I would assume a single 5kw unit would be enough. I have bluetooth versions listed below that are easy to use and have lots of great reviews.

[@staritpro1775]

Can You use no. 1 heating oil instead of diesel ?

[@loweredexpectations4927]

Absolutely ! If this is an option for you, that's great. Where I live we use natural gas, and heating oil is very hard to come by. Kerosene also works really well.

[@MrAzulikit]

Where can I buy the fitting for the bottom of the plastic tank? The bulkhead one, some called it a nozzle on the bottom with the o-ring etc? I can’t seem to find on Amazon unless I buy the whole tank.

[@loweredexpectations4927]

You can get them with a line attached, at walmart in the US... "Fuel Tank Stand Pipe Kit," ... If you search hard enough you may be able go find the normal ones... not sure where tho.

[@ElectroFriedRiggin]

Not two problems out with one solution use a solenoid valve that's wired up to the fuel pump wires that way if it ever kicks off the solenoid valve would be shut so it's safety and it would still kick on

[@loweredexpectations4927]

This is a good idea with a little bit of tweaking... The pump pulses, so you would need a circuit board that kept the solenoid powered as long as it was getting pulses, but then closed the solenoid if the pulsing stopped. You may be able to do this with a capacitor and solenoid valve, I'm not sure.

[@ElectroFriedRiggin]

@@loweredexpectations4927 the pump itself pulses but does the power to it stay steady or does that pulse the pump might be what causes its own pulsing however if it is the power source that makes it pulse then you simply tap into the power supply for the fan run some wires over to the solenoid along with the wires for the pulse pump run them in parallel it should be the same voltage regardless this should solve the problem without needing any extra parts other than the solenoid

[@loweredexpectations4927]

@@ElectroFriedRiggin Yes, good question. All of the pulsung (hz control) is done by the ECU / motherboard. The pump is basically a solenoid plunger that displaces fuel each time power is fed to it. They operate between .8 and 6 hz, in general. Tapping into the fan could work but would likely require additional circuitry as well. The problem being that any additional component is either going to increase resistance (in series) or decrease resistance (in parallel). At the very least this would change the speed of the fan ... not a big deal if you are feeding fuel manually. However, the ECU will see the change in resistance and pick this up as a problem with the fan. On most ECUs, this will throw a fault code and shut the heater down. I have a video coming out in the next few days where I got my heater to run without an ECU at all. I used light bulbs in a parallel circuit to control the fan speed so I have 3 speeds... It was a lot of fun.

[@thegrimreaper7777]

At last someone who has debunked that Australian guys claims. I've had my 2kW heater running in my van for the last 4 years with Tygon soft fuel line with no issues. the line even runs up and down and any air bubbles formed by the action of the pump just run along the line and don't stop it working at all. I keep telling people that the way the pump works, if it has fuel to pump in on its inlet side, it will pump it out on the outlet side, and then whatever goes in one end of the fuel line, will have to come out the other end (unless there's a break in it along its length) so the type or bore size of fuel line makes no difference, once the line is full. The fact that the manufacturers sell dampers for the fuel line makes their arguments worthless.

[@loweredexpectations4927]

Yes... somehow people just ignore it when I ask them about the dampers.... I have some upcoming tests that you may enjoy ... I ordered 30 metres of soft aliexpress fuel line, haha. Bubbles have never been an issue for me either... as long as there's not a huge air pocket, you don't even notice bubbles. These bubbles occur in rigid line and act as dampers.... so that's another way this idea is disproved. Regardless of any tests that I do, many people get caught up on these ideas... like they have a romantic relationship with them. People like solving problems, and it's really really easy to solve a problem that doesn't exist ... If you take that away from someone, you are robbing them of their success 🤷‍♂️ ... still... the truth is better.

[@jaysonhoulihan9808]

I tried disconnecting my pump to try to slow fuel flow on waste oil it imediately shut off with an error. Can you try using a longer burn chamber with some sort of baffle at the end to keep heat in on waste oil. Mine keeps shutting off due to overheat, if we can keep heat in chamber the oil will burn better and possibly not overheat it.

[@loweredexpectations4927]

Yes... some heaters will shut down as soon as they detect the pump missing. To make a longer burn chamber would also require lengthening the heat exchanger as the burn tube comes very close to the end. I'm not sure if you have seen my series on burning waste oil. A bunch of those videos / experiments were aimed at trying to keep heat in the burn chamber. I can't remember how well I documented it but I did try many different methods. Some more successful than others. This "ended" in me deciding that I should design and build my own burn chamber from scratch.

[@olegs_vacija]

I remember when my cumbustion chmaber was gone, it maked the same sound, mesh inside burned out. Changed to new cumbustion chamber and runs like new. I would open garage doors or window when this heater is running, carbon monoxide is hazard. Make a test with different fuel pump angles, that would be interesting on fuel consumtion aspect ratio

[@loweredexpectations4927]

Thanks for the comment. I was running a brand new combustion chamber in this video. I believe it was making that sound because I had no inlet or exhaust installed, and also because the exchanger was pretty dirty. Opening windows and doors is a good idea for sure. I was using a CO meter as well as a TVOC, CO2 and HCHO meter during this testing, but still a good idea.

[@olegs_vacija]

@@loweredexpectations4927 in my case the noise like in this video kzbin.info/www/bejne/h6emY5WQrp6Vf5osi=3msxMQh_ONl02EOF&t=377 , stayed all the time, after running heater 1 season, 2kw version, could not underrstand why. Even tried metal mesh in cumbustion chamber but noise was gone only for 2 days. Only replacing cumbustion chamber solved problem. To fix that mesh whats inside, have to cut it, replace mesh and weld it, Seen some videos on russian youtube channels, they usualy tries to fix things whats even not fixable but at the end it works. Be carefull with carbon manoxide, friends granpa died in sealed garage while fixing car when engine was running. Real story.

[@loweredexpectations4927]

@@olegs_vacija Thanks for your concern. Yes, friends of my family, and father and son, both died in their home made camper the first night they took to out. CO is no joke.

[@zarguy]

Before I heard about a pressure problem with the green fuel line, I heard about the line disintegrating over a very short time, like 1 year. That's enough reason to replace it with rigid fuel line.

[@loweredexpectations4927]

I have seen the fuel line harden in a few years, but have never seen it fall apart. The semirigid line is great stuff. I don't disagree with that at all, just with claim that it makes the heater work better. I personally think that most people like changing fuel line, and making videos about changing fuel line, because it makes them feel important or like they have solved a problem. To that I say, well done on the job and you will be happy with your new fuel line... but the second you start making claims about it making the heater working better, that where I have to call BS on it, haha.

[@paultro8457]

I'm at the hospital a lot and that contraption isn't used to regulate the medication going into you. It is used to get the air out of the line. Unless that line is hooked up to a pump, that does regulate the amount of medication going into you, your heart is the pump that regulates the flow of the medication. But normally they do that with like a saline solution or something mild. Every time they pump a different medication into me, they always will tell me it will be over the course of an hour for this med. Or 2 hours for this med or only maybe 10 minutes for this one. But they always have one of those contraptions hooked before the line goes in to the pump to get the majority of the air out.

[@loweredexpectations4927]

Yeah... I probably should have corrected that. My X is a vet tech, that's where I got the IV drips from.... They always use a pump for accurate delivery these days. I don't think that's correct about the air though .... The dlrip is used to monitor the drip so they can glance at it and see if it is working. It is also used in an emergency to count out drips per minute. The regulator valve is used to set the flow in an emergency, or if you don't have one of those fancy machines.

[@roberthutson2023]

Just saying, that is absolutely not true, the roller clamp is not designed to only get the air out of the line, it is designed to control your flow rate of the fluid or medication going into you. You use the clamp and you open it wide when you're flushing the line of any air, then it's dialed to the MANUAL rate that the patient needs. If you are put on a pump, then the dial is usually wide open so the pump doesn't throw an obstruction code which will happen if it's not able to pull the amount of fluid that is dialed into the actual pump. Just so you know, that's what that does and here is an article so you can see if you don't believe. Just some knowledge :)

[@loweredexpectations4927]

@@roberthutson2023 Does the user manual mention anything about temperature change effecting drip rate of your diesel 🤣🤣

[@roberthutson2023]

@@loweredexpectations4927 🤣🤣🤣 Probably not since its not meant for that lmfao hahahaha but your experiment was amazing thank you for that

[@loweredexpectations4927]

@@roberthutson2023 👍

[@ionutzxpo]

Hi! I would like you if you can to make a test with the lowest drip rate posible......30....40...50 per min ..I have a diesel heater in my balcony to stop the moisture and it consumes too much fuel it works very inefficiently and i would like to make it extreme efficient!

[@loweredexpectations4927]

I plan on giving this a try. It should be noted that as the fuel consumption drops, so will the heat output. If you are running your heater with very little fuel and lots of air flow, you will start to lose efficiency, as a larger percentage of your heat will escape out the exhaust.

[@RustyShakleford1]

Any way to put in a much more efficient 12v motor??? That can attach the fan blades

[@loweredexpectations4927]

I'm sure I responded to this, but it is showing up as not responded to. You could, but most of the losses are going to be from fan drag, heat exchanger drag and the energy it actually takes to move air. a person could design or perhaps find a better fan and polish or modify the exchanger to allow for better flow.

[@robertchristensen7950]

You could see about adding a electric valve in place of the pump. That way it shuts off with the heater.

[@loweredexpectations4927]

Yes, this work work... It's not 100% ideal, as the heater goes through a cool down cycle that takes a few minutes. During this time the fuel would still be flowing. An electric valve that was connected to a heat sensor, that turned off at 80C would reduce flooding the chamber with extra fuel.

[@bellofiore894]

Really amazing You know more than who invented this burner!😂👍👍

[@loweredexpectations4927]

HAH ! Naw... Those folks are pretty incredible. These things are mini engineering miracles. Truly awesome that they designed these so many years ago to be so simple, reliable, durable and cost effective.

[@dandahermitseals5582]

The oil heaters we use in the bush are called pot burners with gravity fed diesel that just flows in regulatedndrips and burns like a gallon a day on the low setting which is only to keep things from freezing in your cabin while we',re away on trails. No pressure except gravity. Also no electrical supply. Just a barell with #2;winter grade diesel fuel.. Modern people over complicate everything and expect led screens. On everything Haha. We don't have any of that bullshit on our wood burning heater or wood burninh cook stoves.that noise is terrible and its little exhaust is a tremendous fire hazard.. You can have them.

[@loweredexpectations4927]

A few commenters have mentioned these and someone sent me a video of a military unit. Interesting. I agree that modern things are overly complex, and most of the time it is not necessary. I grew up with wood heat in my house, after it was converted from what used to be a coal fired water heated house... I cut, split, stacked, restacked in our basement and burnt fire till I was 17-18. That being said. These heaters have their place. They are convenient and very compact. If you have them set up well, they are completely safe, and not at all messy. They run for decades without issue if you run them on good quality fuel (diesel or kerosene) and if they need repair or maintenance, just about anyone can fix them. Parts are available and cheap, and if you do completely destroy one... they are cheap to replace. I use these heaters for fun and to experiment, I have 280,000 btu of natural gas heat in my garage, 200,00 floow and 80,000 air, but I can see why people like these little things.

[@Prim--]

Is there a way to only turn on the fan without the heater turned pushing out hot air?

[@loweredexpectations4927]

I'm not totally sure what you are asking. You want to turn the fan on to circulate air but without it making heat ? I believe some heaters have this function, but my heaters do not. If you run 12V to the fan motor it will spin.... if you are creative you can send variable voltage to the fan and turn it however fast you wish.

[@Prim--]

@@loweredexpectations4927 thanks for your reply. My apologies for my broken question. Yes, I would like to be able to control the fan without the heating function turned on. I have thought of hacking it but with all the hidden control features I wasn't sure if there was an option hidden somewhere in the Engineering Menu or Settings mode. Cheers!

[@loweredexpectations4927]

@@Prim-- Yeah, I seem to remember seeing someone talk about this in a video, but I can't for the life of me remember what heater it was for. I have never seen this feature myself.

[@werner.x]

Hey, this video is doing great so far. Almost as much visitors as your 10 day older wheelbarrow heater already 😁

[@loweredexpectations4927]

Haha... Yes, I have noticed... I'm not sure if that is subject matter, or just because people are on holiday and bored.

[@javierpallalorden]

Very nice test, could be used in an emergency situation. IV Drip costs nearly next to nothing (in case the backup diesel/fuel pump is also faulty).

[@loweredexpectations4927]

For sure... it would be handy to have a CO meter as well, but it could get you out of a real pickle if you had to wait 3-4 days, or weeks for a new fuel pump to arrive.

[@alanweisner2421]

Another fun Video of you just " sending it".. I truly enjoy these experiments kinda takes me back.. Anyway, pay no attention to the keyboard warriors, your peeps love your videos .

[@loweredexpectations4927]

Thanks for the comment ! It was a fun one.

[@revalt2778]

the fact that you have it cyling at 70 per minute on the highest heat setting (according to your controller) is a tribute to how over fuelled these things are , i guess these big companies are all linked anyhow so why wouldn't they . , there is another guy on the tube setting his at 1 hz on the lowest setting , assuming thats one pump (drip per second) , it seems it is possible to go lower on the number 1 control setting . (Would it be possible to just pinch the fuel line a little upstream of the pump?) or would it destroy it , great work , very interesting thanks .

[@loweredexpectations4927]

Hey, sorry I missed your comment. This is an older video, but I think you are making some incorrect assumptions... maybe not. I did the math at some point (in this video??) and I think it takes at least two, maybe 3 cycles of the pump to make one drop. A single cycle of these pumps is only 0.022ml. From memory, I ran the pump through the dripper, with the heater on the highest setting, and this was my baseline / a starting point for how much to drip. How many HZ kinda depends on your elevation / barometric pressure, but most of these operate around .08 hz on the lowest fan setting. Pinching the line is something that I tried unsuccessfully, when using a pump ... I forget what happened. You may be able to use a accurate needle valve. I don't think it would destroy the pump, but you'd want to make sure you had good fuel line clamps as it will create some pressure.

[@livelife4eternity]

Can you make it run on gasoline? I think it would work with correct mixture. Thanks!

[@loweredexpectations4927]

You know... I was wondering the same thing... I have tried running on gas, last winter.. and it sort of worked (poorly)... but I'm wondering if I get the ratio right, what will happen.

[@Aetek]

Hi, I would like you to try a peristaltic pump.

[@loweredexpectations4927]

Cool idea...I have seen those and assumed they would be expensive. I suppose finding one that would handle diesel and move very small volumes would be the main goal.

[@coreybabcock2025]

I setup a 5 gallon gas can exactly how you setup that jug I only have to buy diesel about once a week or so for 20.00 to 24.00 too

[@loweredexpectations4927]

That's a good way to do it... you don't want to be messing with diesel every day !

[@KeithCollett-p2m]

What you said is true, plus you have to have the air filter on, it equalies the air pressure, 😉 😅, and you can only use diesel, that is why it is called a diesel heater, do not use any other fuel 😉 😜 😄, love your vids ,

[@loweredexpectations4927]

Haha. Oh MAN !! Is that what the "D" in CDH means ?... "diesel" !!

[@PeterJavea]

Very interesting. Now... can i just add that "we" who want to heat our garages or basement are, in effect extrapolating from TRUCK/camping car heater. Wabasto designed this so that a trucker could just "flip a switch", set the level, and warm up his cabin and sleep the night. Nonetheless. 10/10 from me for proving something relevant. Thanks

[@loweredexpectations4927]

Absolutely. This is not a practical way to run your heater, especially in a vehicle... but anywhere. This was just an experiment. I recently ran the same heater without any ECU at all.

[@genepierson1728]

Thansk for sharing. Do you recommend an inline fuel filter?

[@loweredexpectations4927]

Yes... they are cheap insurance to protect the pump.

[@djohnsto2]

So - If you add a high pressure fuel pump and a proper injector, will it run more efficiently?

[@loweredexpectations4927]

It may... I'm not sure that there is much efficiency to be gained. The bigger issue is trying to use a pressure system with this extremely small volume. The pump delivers .022ml per pulse. That means at max heat you have 6hz 6x.022 = .132ml per second or x60 = 7.9ml of fuel per minute... that's one tablespoon of fuel per minute. To be able to regulate the flow over a few seconds, you would need extremely precise fuel metering. It could be done, but it wouldn't be easy.

[@WaffleStaffel]

Nice. I just saw a guy do this the other day- "hotwire your diesel heater" or something like that.

[@loweredexpectations4927]

Haha... As someone has already posted. The next step is to run it without any ECU at all. Full manual.

[@WaffleStaffel]

@@loweredexpectations4927 Do it! A couple cheap PWM controllers for the fan and glow plug. The glow plug is set to 85w default, but people have said it will run fine at 40 watts. Yeah, I thought it was BS when I first saw it.

[@snapcrack55]

You could use your hose clamp with the thumb screw to better control the flow rate of the IV dripper.

[@loweredexpectations4927]

Yeah... a needle valve or even a ball valve would be a good choice... I mean... "good" choice as this is just a silly idea, haha. Other than an emergency, this is not at all practical.

[@curtdunlap6818]

I ran rigid fuel line for protection from rupture. My line runs through unfinished walls and who knows what kind of dumb stuff might be flying through the air. Two days ago, I launched a wheel hub out of my shop press which made for an exciting 2 seconds! With my recent experience with IVs (funny how this follows the last line so naturally), that little wheel thingamajig is used to stop fluid flow, and not to meter it. They have monitors that meter the dose rates. Maybe you should use that gadget you used to stop the flow, or as another poster said, a needle valve - something with finer adjustment. Good luck. We're all counting on you.

[@loweredexpectations4927]

Haha... stay away from hospitals... unless you really need a hospital.... then, you better got to the hospital ! I agree. Rigid line is absolutely better in many ways. It has a lot of practical uses. No need to make up stories about how soft line absorbs pulses form the pump... I thought about editing that part out of the video where I commented on the flow valve, haha. My GF (X) is a Vet Tech and that's where I got the IV from. I'm aware they use pumps to control the dose. These valves are actually a emergency pack up and nurses / techs are trained to count out the drips if the machine fails. The drip tube is an indicator so they can see that it's working at a glance.... Like the balls in old gas pumps, haha.... what ever happened to those !! A needle valve would be way better... Way easier to control !

[@kg4gav]

@@loweredexpectations4927 I am a former EMT and my son is a current nurse tech and nursing student. We all learn how to calculate IV rates using the roller lock and drip chamber. Most ambulances don't have IV pumps, all of their IV's are done with straight drip infusion sets. You don't need a needle valve, that roller valve and drip chamber will be more precise than you'll ever need. The IV infusion set will also tell you how many drops per mL, 10, 15 and 60 are pretty standard. Knowing that info, the drops per minute and the amount of fuel you have in the tank, you can easily calculate how long the fuel will last.

[@bernswonger57]

I didn't see anywhere in the video, where you adjusted the fan speed with the controller. It occured to me, you could control fan speed to lean, or enrichen the flame. To take it one step further, install a rheostat, to fine tune fan speed, for optimal burn

[@loweredexpectations4927]

@@bernswonger57 Yes, that is true... You'd want to make sure that everything settles for a few minutes before and after making changes... They take time to settle as the fuel doesn't burn immediately when entering the heater. I have a few follow up videos to this one where I try to run the heater without an ecu. If you haven't seen them you may be interested.

[@walterflores5514]

Great video, thank you! What are your thoughts about the real needing for a fuel filter? as an example planar portable heaters doesn’t use one, but Chinese ones always install it.

[@loweredexpectations4927]

It's not a bad idea to run a filter, and they are cheap. These pumps are a lot less likely to be affected by debris than a carburetor or fuel injection, and the heater itself really doesn't care too much about debris... however, I still run filters on all of my heaters, just in case. Some types of silt or dust could cause premature failure of your pump and a filter is not only good insurance, but also a easy inspection point. You can look at a filter and see if you have been sucking up contaminants. Sorry for the drawn out response.

[@NoseyBast]

I mess around with my Heat Up & Down, Too Warm, THEN too Cold I’m sticking with the clicker *UNTIL* I’ve enough monies to go live in an all year round WARM COUNTRY lol Excellent stuff bruh☮️🏆

[@loweredexpectations4927]

Haha... yeah... a warmer climate is smart. Some new controllers have thermostats similar to in your house, and you can buy a device called a Bureck CD Thermostat, that turns your heater on and off.

[@NoseyBast]

@@loweredexpectations4927 my Ex used to do similar things to “Said APP” Sounds Like an Alexa on Roids lol, and at a guess I’m 99.9% POSITIVE it’d cost a whole lot less having this APP 😇😜

[@EyebrowsMahoney]

What a lot of folks don't seem to understand is by the nature of how the "pump" works, it can't generate any meaningful pressure. It's a "metering pump" it's designed to allow in a specific amount of fuel, which is what each 'tic' is. It's a piezoelectric pump that uses a diaphragm to "pump" an expected amount of fuel into the combustion chamber. That's why you're playing with pulse numbers and the pump doesn't whine like a regular pressurized fuel pump that they're used to. The same principle is used on many larger small engines to supply fuel to the carb bowl, except where it's not piezo electric but powered by vacuum or exhaust pulses. Any fuel pressure is generated by gravity, the 'pump' is only there to make sure the bowl fills under high fuel demand and in the case of the heater, meters the amount of fuel to keep the mixture from running too lean or too rich because there isn't any carburetor to meter the fuel for the heater. Also, your cat is adorable and confirms my suspicions that orange cats and thinking clearly is not their forte. Poor lil guy 😂

[@loweredexpectations4927]

Yes... this exactly. They even call them "dosing pumps" to try to clue us in, haha. Haha... yes, Quasar is adorable, and foolish. He likes a LOT of attention and that often gets in the way if him thinking strait.

[@DanBowkley]

You need a little needle valve in there to control flow. I don't know how compatible it'd be from a chemical standpoint but have a look in the drip irrigation department of your favorite home improvement store, they have little plastic needle valves to adjust water flow for like 50¢ a pop.

[@loweredexpectations4927]

Funny that you mention that. An old friend of mine stopped by the other evening and had the exact same thing to say, haha. I may even have a brass needle valve around, but I'm not sure that I could make it fit, so the 50 cents is probably a better idea.

[@ebenwaterman5858]

They make brass ones too. I got one at some hardware store somewhere some time ago. I have it right here. See. Oh wait. Never mind. Nice video. :)

[@loweredexpectations4927]

@@ebenwaterman5858 Haha... Yes... I have one I think for the humidifier feed line on a furnace. Not the easiest thing to attach to as it uses compression fittings and 1/8 npt .

[@ebenwaterman5858]

@@loweredexpectations4927 Yeah, guess that's why I haven't used it yet. :)

[@coachgeo]

Interesting... once these get going.. does the glow plug turn off? aka... is it only used at start up... and at end? (assuming at end to assist burning off the last of the fuel to help all fuel in the heater to be combusted to help insides stay clean)

[@loweredexpectations4927]

I'm not 100% sure I know what you mean, but one of my next experiments with this will be to remove the ECU and run it full manual.

[@bernswonger57]

Yes, just as you said. I use a solar generator to power mine, on startup it pulls 100 watts or so, then after flame up it rolls back to around ten to 35 watts depending on fan speed.

[@loweredexpectations4927]

@@bernswonger57 Awesome... I should get a solar panel. I have a follow up video to this one where I try to run the heater without an ECU and I think it ends up pulling the same amount of power, but the fan is moving a lot more air.