No Money, No Instructors: RAF Fighter Pilot EMERGENCY

Royal Air Force is asking for fast jet flying. instructors to return to active Service in desperate attempt to stem the outflow due to poor pay and conditions!
Life lessons from the world of aviation on flying, addiction and culture, brought to you by a former RAF fighter pilot (Tornado GR4, Hawk T1/T2 Flying and Weapons Instructor)
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[@Pythagarous]

My son applied to join the RAF, he passed every exam with flying colours, the recruitment officer said it’s the highest pass mark he’d seen at that office. He was turned down. His friend from school applied, same thing, passed all the exams and he was turned down too. They were never told why they were turned down but I can take an educated guess as to why.

[@jimjoelliejack]

Phil I take it your son isn’t a dark skinned fella or a transgender bint?

[@sirvikalcrusader3668]

Think I might know as well...probably a blessing in disguise.

[@raypurchase801]

@@sirvikalcrusader3668 Imagine risking your life to defend another country's borders, when the UK's own borders are completely unprotected. And your own government despises you for being too English.

[@sajuente8235]

@@raypurchase801 UK have no borders its a fucking island. Maybe you meant Belarus?

[@NicholasWarnertheFirst]

​@@raypurchase801vote Brexit!

[@jetnavigator]

The new Catch-22. If someone wants to join up they are automatically excluded because only an insane person would want to join at this point.

[@ohsweetmystery]

Do not volunteer to help people who despise you and are trying to destroy your culture.

[@DrTruth02]

They’re excluded as the recruitment officers refer to the applicants as useless white males- karma is a biatch and now the RAF will pay the price

[@Drew.P.Todger]

That’s ok… there’ll probably be a quota for insane people soon.

[@Foxyexrn]

Hence diversity hires

[@zackperry1594]

I just wanted to learn how to fly....

[@GriffinParke]

Not just the financial considerations, why would anyone want to join up, when the UK's history and culture is being rubbished constantly by those in charge. Other sectors are suffering similarly aswell.

[@ballshippin3809]

We're basically the 51st state of the US at this point. British society has been Americanized at the expense of our own while having infinite Africans replacing us

[@LonelySidTheSloth]

Join the military efend your country , get sent to some middle eastern shit hole by some sneaky politician because he wants more influence in the region to gain favourable economical deals. Last time britain defended themselves was maybe in Falklands i mean its a stretch to say that islands belong to britain being so far away and what not , but british peopel do live there so they shoudnt be just pushed aside.

[@peterbrockwell2009]

I don't recall any pay cap after 2010 of even anything as low as 1%. As a police officer, we received 0% pay rises from 2009 until September 2023. I now feel almost as poor in real terms as I did when I joined up in 2005.

[@fatrick5004]

Until the police start policing they don't deserve a pay rise. Two tier event policing, ignoring real crimes to trawl the internet for non crime hate incidents (largely because vast amounts of cops are too fat to police the streets), covering up grape gangs, pandering to wokeness...yeah. no pay rise sounds fair to me.

[@harrier1417]

I'll laugh my bollocks off if they offer you a slot Tim. 😂

[@johnnunn8688]

If they do, I’ll be laughing my bollocks off too, at THEM!

[@jeffjones6107]

Well said Tim 👍

[@SmedleyDouwright]

Black man loves his golden retriever!

[@jasboy28]

Out of interest, why would you not want to get back in a jet Tim?

[@FastJetPerformance]

There's a lot of things that need to be done other than just getting into a fast jet. Swim test, fitness test, sea drill, ejection seat training, DEI (lol), a full 9 months education re-qual package of ground based training etc. The ejection seat nude weight limit is 92 kg for the Hawk T2, I'm currently a heavyweight rower so I'm around 98 kg so I'd have to get rid of that. Then I'd expect every single Senior Officer in the RAF would like a chat with me in full Number One uniform about how outspoken I've been (I WOULD LOVE THIS, lol) and jet flying at 50 has its issues. Also, I've done that now, I did it for 20 years - I might work in the simulator but to re-qual on jets is a bit ask at 50 for anyone.

[@speedonz]

It's not really about keeping pace with inflation. Its about keeping pace with what other comparative professions are earning. Not really the same thing!

[@martinelmes]

Ex SNCO Armourer 26 years experience, 16 years fast jet GR1/4, F3 and Hawk . So glad I've left that clusterfkuc behind me. So sorry for the boys and girls trying to keep the clown show running........sad times...

[@realMaverickBuckley]

My son is doing a 60 mile walk for the Air Cadets this weekend. What shoukd I guide him to towards? He's a great kid. I'm struggling to know what to do.

[@matthewlardner5328]

advice him to emigrate out of this country, it’s fecked !!! Genuine suggestion. I’ve taken my family lock stock and barrel to France, that’s how convinced I am to what’s coming 😔

[@SomeRandomGuy121]

F the clown show!

[@martinelmes]

@realMaverickBuckley if he wants to go aircrew, ask Tim. If he wants to work on aircraft engineering, I would definitely guide him towards going heavy (airframes or engines). Armourers are a diying bread.

[@bhughes1986]

@@realMaverickBuckleygo to the civilian sector. Better pay, better opportunities, better life. From a serving Flight Sergeant.

[@muckymedway3309]

£50K a year for a fighter pilot - £60K a year for a train driver!!!

[@socialistcynic]

Train drivers are left wing unionisers, and as a result they get good pay and good working conditions. Thats what conservatives don't understand. Their pay is good, this pay is terrible.

[@philbeckett3254]

Problem is train drivers mostly private companies.. anything government paid is toss. Local call centre to me earns 34k basic for handling calls 42 hour week. Im a fire fighter and just clear 36k with unsociable hours and un predictable work... will always be the same

[@derekking5386]

I was a fireman for 11 years in glasgow, then a freight train driver in crewe for 20 years. I loved the fire service, but you have no idea the training involved being a train driver. Even when you cant see past the windscreen because its thick with fog, you are still flying around at 75 mph on freight and well over 125 mph on inter city trains. You better know your routes. No good crossing over a 20 mph section at a 100 mph. You will end up in a field somewhere. Its nothing like driving on a road. Ive done both jobs. Glasgow central was the busiest fire station in europe at the time. Trust me, there is way more to learn being a train driver and its more dangerous every day, if you make a mistake

[@philbeckett3254]

@@derekking5386 i get you. However 2 different jobs completely.

[@inquiringminds6633]

My brother lives in New York and is on $200,000 a year as a train driver. This country is on its ass!

[@TacticalKeyboardOperator]

"Migrant hotel costs rise to £8m a day, Home Office figures show" i think there is more money to be had in the hotel buisness

[@markcallaghan8389]

an update i heard £11m a day money well spent 😒😒

[@moonbaby6134]

Try £15m.

[@brendanpells912]

There certainly is, all that taxpayers' money being funneled by a Tory government into the pockets of their chums by dismantling the asylum processing system so as to create a massive backlog.

[@stephenskinner3851]

And there is plenty of money for LTNs, Net-Zero, Diversity Equity and Inclusion, and all the Civil Service or non productive staff that such ideologies require.

[@petermclelland278]

Who do you think is going to pay for the migrants sent to Rwanda to live? The Rwandans? Us, you clown!

[@raylawrence1]

Ninety-one years old, been retired for over thirty years, having previously served thirty-eight. Ten years Fast-Jet and twenty-eight with Helos. A2 QHI, A1 GTI, three tours with CFS (H) having served world-wide incl Borneo and Aden. Tim. your account of the state of our beloved Service makes me weep. Never having gained exalted rank, I served as Specialist Aircrew. Limited career but never found myself behind the mahogany desk (Flying the brown Bomber as slang would have it ) I was content to suck my oxygen through a rubber mask and fight the Gees as I pulled on the levers ! The insanity that we have witnessed in the upper levels is perplexing. These guys at the top are supposed to be the brightest and the best yet we at the lower levels can see the disaster unfolding year upon year. I can only conclude that they are under duress to follow a hidden agenda from a higher authority. Financial constraint must be a part of their dilemma but there seems to be something sinister going on. I would like to know the full story of who, what and why this madness is being fostered. Well done Tim. Your inciteful and well informed clips are a window on reality and if the senior Blokes at the top are not watching and taking serious note of your observations then we are surely on the slide to oblivion.

[@AndrewFosterSheff69]

Coudenhove Kallergie plan. You're welcome.

[@okshadowbannedjet7981]

Long long time ago, someone had figured out, that the West can't be beaten militarily, so they went for subversion tactics instead. It's a Trojan War. I think Yuri Bezmenov is very close to the truth, though the old Soviet Union is by far not the only culprit.

[@Foxyexrn]

Thank you for your service Sir. I'm the same but NHS. I've given 40 years to it. For what? Diversity politics aka Zionist politics. Look it up. Conservative or Labour Friends of Israel. Every western country is ruled by them.

[@_Mentat]

It's the biggest mystery - how are those who rule over us coerced? For coerced they surely are.

[@bertiewooster3326]

Ray tick box promotion over the past 20 years amended 1369s with red and green ink to satisfy diversity blah blah .......

[@johnnunn8688]

It’s not just the RAF. After my stint in the mob, I did 5 years on corporate jets at Oxford Airport. Handed a letter one morning, info-ing me I’m redundant from x-date, along with a bunch of others. (But not the only, sub-par, female 🤷‍♂️) By midday I was told could leave that day but on pay until leave date, so I said my goodbyes and went home to start job hunting on full pay. Phoned later that afternoon by manager, stating they made a mistake and would I please return. Two words, second word, ‘off’. 🤣😂 Tw@ts!

[@FastJetPerformance]

Brilliant, bunch of idiots!

[@douglascharnley8249]

You urinate down someone's back and then you try to tell them it is raining. This is what happens.

[@BillyHill-f7w]

That is actually a good description on what is going on in the whole western world. They do not try to tell us it is raining...they are telling us it is raining and if you say no they will come after you with police and medics.

[@xxyyzzplants131]

thats one I had forgotten, and its a beautiful thing.

[@trevorgwelch7412]

Air Ethiopia will be volunteering training pilots for the RAF

[@Foxyexrn]

WTH

[@Yannickille]

Air ethiopa has no passengers?

[@fox3shooter]

The force is to put it mildly fucked ! From MT drivers with HGV getting poached, ATC getting poached, 737 engineers 80k outside, AV techs for anything EV and renewables, C4I and cyber getting poached. Even Tesla is prioritising hiring forces people as service engineers as cars are computerised. Christ even the RPAS pilots are going as the UAV world is expanding at an incredible rate with NHS and offshore using them for everything.

[@richierich9761]

As an EX-MT myself I just looked up the current salary range and its about £26k after 6 months service . I have a mate who Tesco trained to drive artics and he cleared £54k with overtime last year

[@fox3shooter]

@@richierich9761 yep, the bus companies here are offering £28k. A heating oil company 5kL small ADR tankers £40k. The Tesla service centres and mobile engineers £55k plus a car.

[@gareth2673]

This isn't just the military. I retired from the police 2 yrs ago. Within 8 months I was contacted (along with others) if I would be interested in rejoining? I thought about it for all of 10 seconds (60 yrs old, going back to working 12 hr shifts, nights dealing with f***wits,emm no thanks). Turns out the retention of new, young in service officers is a big problem. Burnout due to work load, salary,having to work nights, weekends... yes I kid you not, having to work nights ??? (did they not realise this before joining?) I absolutely loved my time in the force, but I don't think I last very long these days. I'd probably upset some scroat no doubt ! Love your updates Tim.

[@FastJetPerformance]

Thanks Gareth, I try and do what I can for British Policing but it seems to be a lost cause at the moment, much like the military.

[@c00sto]

Paying now for all those years rejecting the ex mil lads and blokes who understand you have to work hard for good things. Recruiting uni grads and those from desired backgrounds that have had "you can be whatever you want to be" and "you are a victim" smashed into them throughout their school/uni life was always going to backfire

[@TommyBahama84]

​@@c00stospot on. I knew a few coppers who were former soldiers with NI tours under their belts. They were naturally great at their profession.

[@FastJetPerformance]

@@c00sto Yes, people don't appreciate things that are easy to attain.

[@MrEdrftgyuji]

When the police prioritise government targets and arresting poor, elderly people for making mean tweets over burglaries and catching bad guys, then they get what they deserve.

[@zeberdee1972]

Go woke get Broke ....or in this case get wrecked . Wigston and his traitors killed my beloved previous Service . Sad days and I don't know how this can now recover .

[@normalwisdom4048]

*With people like Tim steering it back, that's how* #Back2Basics

[@thomasterdington3181]

Wigston wasn't responsible for funding the RAF though. That's down to the last 14 years of tory government. Your stupid anti-woke slogan just shows you have been taken hook, line and sinker by the tory BS. All designed to deflect away from their own failings. Well done!

[@ChrisUKFF]

It's all part of the master plan. Cannot defeat us head on so they have to use subversion and eat away slowly in a battle of attrition against our institutions, Military, Police etc etc.

[@lanehewitt7685]

Read the book Vassal State. The UK does not control its own policy on anything.

[@Foxyexrn]

The Zionists do.

[@javelin223]

This could be the greatest comeback since 2012 Man City. Dust off your uniform Sqn Ldr Davies…please!

[@FastJetPerformance]

My wife is already looking at your comment with utter disdain lol!

[@Mike-br8zt]

@@FastJetPerformance Ok, we shall make you a Wing Commander.

[@peteohead]

@@Mike-br8ztAfter a Staff Tour, natch!

[@VoltaireVoltaire-zq4zh]

Salary of a air force pilot in France is roughly equivalent, but France does not seem to have the same recruitment issue, so clearly salary is not the only issue in the UK...

[@Grahamshawx]

The destruction of the pension scheme didn’t help. I was lucky and managed to stay on the old system but anyone joining now gets pretty much bugger all.

[@karlj1564]

I agree. AFPS 15 is good but nothing in comparison to the previous schemes. The incentive to do 22 years / to have a career just isn't there. Also the postings are pretty grim now, I grew up in Germany as my dad was at Brüggen. My skill set means that I'd likely spend my working life in Birmingham if I rejoined the army as a regular.

[@issimondias]

@@karlj1564 I left years ago, as a triangle of Hampshire, Northern Germany and Suffolk didn’t fill me with joy.

[@Animosity6792]

Absolute crap - the AFPS15 pension is still one of the best pensions out there. Non-contributory 1/47th accumulation vs NHS (which is regarded as a good pension) would require you to contribute 13.5% of your wage (at similar salary talked about in this video) and accrues at a slower 1/54 rate.

[@timjames2055]

@@Animosity6792 I wonder if the OP was compearing it to the older pension?

[@Animosity6792]

@@timjames2055 they may well have been and suspect they are probably referencing AFPS 75, but unless they have a time machine, what people got from a pension scheme which ended almost 20 years ago is pretty irrelevant. And to suggest AFPS 2015 offers "bugger all" is either stupid or ill informed. If someone went to the personal finance or FIRE reddits claiming that a Non-contributory DB pension accruing at 1/47th is "bugger all" and you'd get shouted out of there!

[@gerryholland7274]

The whole Military System is in the sh*t! My Grandson has been trying to join Army Signals Regiment (Poor Boy....I'm ex-RAF) for 3months. The communication from themr is dire. Still no attendance at any Meetings to assess his capability. As for RAF. Even the Aircraft seem unsuitable, especially binning the C130's.

[@Max-ht9hf]

“No one is more hated than he who speaks the truth” : Plato

[@michaelbasford5109]

When I joined the RAF (Regt), in 78, it wasn't for the money, it was more a vocation. Yes, the pay was crap has was most of the kit, but the comradeship and banter were amazing. Sure, some of the rules were draconian, but they were the rules . Who thought that at 18, I could live in Cyprus for three years and Germany with family, for seven (stamps or discount). When Op Gramby started, I was at Bruggen, and I knew then that we'd all trained to do what the RAF was being asked to do, throughout the Cold War, and so we did it brilliantly. The RAFs priorities these days seems not to be "in peace training for war" but worrying about DEI and ensuring that the so-called "Aviator s" are of the right colour, gender and that all know their pronouns! Who'd join that or want to stay?

[@AnthonyJones-vk6xq]

Same here, Grandfather was in the Army, my father in the RAF, i joined the RAF. Cyprus, Berlin, Bruggen, all over the UK, excellent times, makes me sad to see whats happened. Incidently this video below may interest you, a German guy taking a tour around Bruggen as it was after we all left ! kzbin.info/www/bejne/q6bNco2LqKiMo68

[@michaelbasford5109]

@AnthonyJones-vk6xq thanks mate but I avoid looking at these videos, too many memories of a great seven years at Bruggen, and sad to see that it's all gone, but thanks once again.

[@AnthonyJones-vk6xq]

@@michaelbasford5109 No worries, i know what your saying......i think we are fortunate to have been in BFG when the armed forces were really at their peak !

[@sgu02nsc66]

Tried twice in the early 2000s to join the RAF as ATC or Fighter Controller. Failed phase 2 at Cranwell twice. I was heart broken, but looking back I am very glad my life went down a different path, especially seeing the state of it now.

[@doctordetroit4339]

I've learned that when I was told "no" in my life.....every time it was God looking out for me.

[@sgu02nsc66]

@@doctordetroit4339 recently in life I’ve thought the exact same 👍

[@Foxyexrn]

Yes! I didn't see it at the time...but God looked after me

[@typhoon2827]

I'm guessing the small print of the Hawk T2 QFI advert says "*but not you, Tim Davies"

[@FastJetPerformance]

It actually says 'Definitely, by Order of the King, NOT Tim Davies' lol

[@markzzzz741]

@@FastJetPerformance but they may still have you. #desperatetimes #needafightingattitude #worsethingshappenatsea 🤣🤣🤣

[@wheater5]

In 1976 I took a pay drop of approximately 50% to join the RAF as an officer. I was previously working as a builder’s labourer. A year later the RAF were called in over Christmas to cover for the Fire Service, who were striking for better pay. Many RAF personnel were on less money than they were, obviously with no right to strike. When I left in 1994 as an A2 QHI and QFI I immediately doubled my leaving salary. A few years later the RAF wrote to me inviting me back, to be paid on a daily rate as a high readiness reserve. I wrote back, advising them that I lived in the Far East and would need to fly back every month. I was offered 45p per mile motor mileage from Luton Airport to Odiham and they would abate my RAF pension! Total out of touch with reality. So nothing much changes.

[@AJ-yr9qm]

We need people like you running the defence of the nation, we need the Royal Air force now more than ever instead of the Leftwaffe. 👍

[@gregtaylor6146]

TBH, that Golden Retriever was clearly NOT enjoying that attention.

[@tonyhaynes9080]

It wasn’t just the crap pay. People get fed up of being detached somewhere for a couple of months, getting home and finding that they’re going somewhere else in a couple of weeks for another couple of months. They want a home life too. I never begrudged jockeys the extra money because it’s a dangerous job. 999 times out of 1000 everything goes smoothly. But when it goes wrong, it goes wrong very quickly. They are trained and paid for that time. I saw one black fast jet pilot in the RAF in thirty years. Flying Jaguars at Coltishall. The RAF gave everyone the same opportunity as long as they met the requirements. There shouldn’t be lowering of standards for certain people, for the obvious reasons. It’s not rocket science.

[@RPMZ11]

You Kiddin me!?? My dad was a Flt/Air Nav instructor with the BCATP....every member of my family served...including all the girls. I'll hold off... Bless em all!

[@cam5376]

This is part of a much wider problem. As a nation we have been living beyond our means for decades, running a deficit and borrowing the difference has become the norm, it is unsustainable. The state is running out of options, the money isn't there, individuals can earn much more in the private sector. We're fucked. Now add uncontrolled immigration on top of that, and contrary to the belief in some quarters they don't all work in 'our' NHS, all to often they don't work at all, and then they import their non working dependents. We're doubly fucked. How depressing.

[@reccerat4446]

In the immortal words of Sgt Maj Williams "Oh dear, how sad, never mind"! Rest easy RAF.

[@raypurchase801]

To quote a line from a movie: "You can teach MONKEYS to fly better than that!" Trouble is: That's actually what they're trying to do.

[@Thenogomogo-zo3un]

@@raypurchase801 😂😂🤣🤣🤣🤣🙈🙉🙊

[@brenglover72]

We don't have a government. Instead we have businessman. And that's the problem.

[@BobBuilder-mq9wr]

No we have a thief , Trump was a businessmen and US flourished for 4 years!! Look.at US under Biden you cant even recognise the place

[@Medge2sc]

Here for the labradors dude!!

[@FastJetPerformance]

Sorry, I made a mistake, it was a Retriever but my dog recognition is really bad!

[@scabthecat]

@@FastJetPerformance Something flew over my head.

[@yanniskouretas8688]

Hey Tim ! Helelnic Air Force WO here . We have our own pilot bleed prob here also (not like RAF bad though but getting there...) . Many young pilots try to get a posting in transport squadrons just to get their licences and hours up in order to get out at the minimum service time and get airline jobs ... Personally at 51 and after 29 years of service I cannot wait till retirement never to see and hear a damn acft again in my life ...

[@FastJetPerformance]

I feel the same, lol - hope you have a great retirement over there, take care!

[@brendanpells912]

Is it because there's less of a service ethos as more amd more of what the RAF does has been out-sourced to private contractors? The RAF, part of the Babcock group.

[@thisisadebrown]

The problem is unless you've got a consultant badge on they don't listen to anybody, even when they've got intelligent well-rounded genius is working for them

[@Drew.P.Todger]

Same in all industries. They’d rather pay a consultant mega bucks to tell them exactly what you’ve been saying for years… they think we’re dumb though.

[@TeddyZlegg]

What you outline is why I, as an experienced rigger corporal with every authorisation under the sun, including class 1 structures, left the RAF and went to much more lucrative employment in the offshore oil and gas industry.

[@gsd32i]

Tim I just love your managerial style. Say it as it is. Brilliant.👍

[@FastJetPerformance]

Thank you, I base it on integrity foremost.

[@johnnunn8688]

@@FastJetPerformance, which is exactly what is lacking, amongst the higher echelons.

[@orchidhouse297]

When will this government realise skilled people employed in public establishments will not work for pay that is decreasing year on year. So we have the government of 'not enough'. Not enough RAF pilots, not enough teachers - my son walked out a year ago to drive a van and earn more money, not enough nurses or doctors, same for lorry drivers, builders, skilled tradesmen working for the local councils. The NHS took a year to arrange for a highly qualified mental health professional to take up a post because of a shortage of admin staff who kept leaving so the process had to restart. The job was to clear the backlog waiting list as quickly is possible.

[@peterblake5977]

They the polititians, probably believe that thousands of drone pilots will be the answer Tim. Expendable , cheep and leathal.

[@wheater5]

They could work from home but the RAF would probably make them pay for they own Wi-Fi to fly the drone.

[@AdmV0rl0n]

Kinda hard to go back in on a crap salary, only to find T2s unavailable because they have F35 style avail rates. Sitting round the naffy with cups of tea, but no flight time. That being said. IMHO - the entire flight training program, going back YEARS, and its high cost, was strung out and stretched due to lack of seats, planes, flight time. If we really go to war, the training length of time would shorten, the costs would be lower, and the time from start of training to squadron would be cut. Course for that to happen, planes would need to be rolling of a production line. On a side note. I believe Mr Davies and his flight program could take a pathway for the MOD to a certain level, and be accessible, and at potentially more sensible costs wise for parts of a training program. As for the RAF, unless heads roll and a massive shift in the woke toxic failure takes place, I see very little changing.

[@angusmcangus7914]

Nothing much changed since I was serving in the 1970s and 80s, then. I was operational on Harriers and Tornados. I left in spring 1989 at my 38/16 point. Yes, I had to pay and do a few courses to get an ATPL but I virtually doubled my income when I joined BA. My subsequent earnings as an airline captain, pilot trainer and examiner dwarfed anything I would have been paid if I'd stayed in except perhaps if I'd made it all the way to CAS (I knew that wasn't going to happen). Constant domestic upheavals played a part too. Her indoors had had enough. And people who don't actually fly are not 'aviators'. Inclusive tosh.

[@FastJetPerformance]

Totally agree with all you've said, the RAF really has lost its way lately, unfortunately - at least we've had some good years.

[@watchfordpilot]

Just like 1934 all over again

[@GilbertdeClare0704]

Precisely, and my father who joined up in 1938 saw MANY lives lost as a result

[@johnnunn8688]

I’m surprised you remember, at the ripe, old age of circa 100!

[@GilbertdeClare0704]

@@johnnunn8688 Are you by any chance suffering from early onset dementia ?

[@TheCNCDen]

The saying 'go woke, go broke' always applies.

[@normalwisdom4048]

*2.5% of GDP is what we should've been spending for the last 20 years, but haven't, this is EXACTLY Trump's beef, side note; nice pitch, good luck Tim* 👌

[@Daimo83]

We spend the money but inflation means the money doesn't buy as much men/kit/vehicles.

[@normalwisdom4048]

​@@Daimo83 *We don't spend the money, never have* 😉

[@pcka12]

The problem is that Price Waterhouse Cooper can do arithmetic, not politics!

[@IS-L]

What’s shameful mess it’s got into. The saying go woke, go broke certainly applies here. Like the last generation that enjoyed 60, 70 80, life, we’re also the last generation that enjoyed RAF life during the 70, 80.

[@rafchris]

I left on a double your money deal and can wholeheartedly say it was the best thing I ever did. Flying in the raf was probably the best and the worst job I have ever had and after being offered a desk hold for 2 years or double your money to keep flying commercially, then it's a no-brainer. But that lead to me having the time and resources to set up my own company and more importantly have a life i.e. family, kids, stability and a little bit of enjoyment.

[@FastJetPerformance]

Excellent work, prioritise family, small business and home life!

[@jasonladd6400]

Flying neds to the Costas every day will make you more cash but it is what it is: glorified bus driving. Depends what you want ultimately, money or challenge. The inclusion bit has never sat with me. I'm not a fan of woman fp's either. You hear the line they can take more g but it's propaganda. Ethnicity over ability even worse. Is a big turn off tbh.

[@richardcrewe4755]

Absolutely spot on Tim

[@Mrtrc33]

Train drivers are £50000 plus and want more . It's shocking that fast jet pilots are on similar wage 😳

[@bluerallyes2]

Not really. Responsibility of a train driver is quite significant.

[@-DC-]

I have agency drivers earning high 50's LGV C E nights, The forces pay rate is an absolute joke not that all Aviation Jobs pay well, FO 737 Midlands Freight being advertised under 40k 🤣

[@Mrtrc33]

@@bluerallyes2 flying a Frontline jet probably worth more than a train and can do slot more damage. Should be on double .

[@Mrtrc33]

@Lookup2Wakeup 😂

[@bluerallyes2]

@@Mrtrc33 having worked on frontline jets for the past 35 years in the RAF, MOD and Industry I’d say costs are broadly comparable for the advanced trainers to a Pendolino. Responsibilities in peacetime are comparable too I’d say. 2 crew for the Hawk with seat and responsibilities for those on the ground vs a few hundred passengers being pulled along. Just my opinion of course.

[@bikerbob7266]

This is not just an RAF issue. Sadly this is across the board from our military to our entire public services, the wrong people have been promoted and put in charge. My son is 15 and wants to join the military, I don’t have the heart to tell him that he is not wanted and will be treated as a second class citizen if he gets in. I despair at what is happening to our country.

[@pmr5346]

A fascinating video that really exposes the poor state of our military. As well as the financial issues, i think we also have cultural issues where fewer young people would be willing to defend the UK. I served in the RAF from 18 -21.

[@pgtips9511]

Hmm, so all those white men the RAF didn’t want are now expected to go back and train who…Abdul and Denzil?

[@FastJetPerformance]

Yep. That's come back to haunt them hasn't it.

[@johnnunn8688]

🤣😂

[@Steven-p4j]

It is absurd to seek pilots on any other criterion that skill and ability.

[@johnnunn8688]

Be fair, to make up for the lower pay, we in the RAF didn’t have to pay income tax. (Many a civvy told me that.)

[@peterwait641]

Unite the Union found out that whoever drew up the Babcock bid for the DSG Land Contract extension had no provision for pay rises in it. They wonder why they can't get staff and others are leaving !

[@davidmuir6849]

Very informative Tim In my view the more you earn the more you get taxed on in the uk . I’m ex Raf and left the Airforce in 94 as a Cpl gas turbine tech . I’m now a caa licenced aircraft engineer on a good salary . I’ve been offered positions at 80,000 but after you work out the 40 percent tax and having 2 living expenses away from home it isn’t worth the hassle Regards Dave from Scotland

[@FastJetPerformance]

Totally agree Dave, you are correct and good to hear from you again

[@johnnunn8688]

I left in ‘96 after 27 years and was an Engineering Technician Propulsion and never once heard of the trade Gas Turbine Tech. What is that, something to do with the Gas Board?

[@davidmuir6849]

@@johnnunn8688 A sooty

[@johnnunn8688]

@@davidmuir6849 I know what a sooty is, I was one for 27 years. My point is, I’ve never once heard that trade described as a Gas Turbine Tech. After all, it wasn’t only turbines sootys dealt with.

[@davidmuir6849]

@@johnnunn8688 I was a sooty on Buccs and a sumpy on Shacks

[@worldofameiso5491]

What white man would want to join the RAF nowadays? With DEI in full operation your chances of promotion are severely limited.

[@sapper82]

A fair amount of this problem dates back to the demise of Hamble in the '80s, forcing airlines to begin poaching pilots from the RAF.

[@InFlightsim22]

Just do two years in Saudi Tim, half a mil in the bank, job done 😂

[@AMIGOALCAM]

The moment it was enforced that the RAF must be DEI included. The Force Left in less than 4weeks. It Will take 10 years + to get this experience and skill qualities back in the RAF.

[@rickharriss]

The interwar governments had just the same short sighted view of defence. Only then it was much faster to train pilots! We have had a much longer period of relative peace as well so no one has the concept of war status any more.

[@pdtech4524]

The CAA are now over regulating model aircraft & drone flyers, which makes it difficult for younger pilots to get into the hobby. So those that would be gripped by the flying bug at an early age and go on to pursue that dream into a career in aviation will be greatly reduced. The likes of Oliver and Wilbur Wright, Neil Armstrong and Frank Whittle all started out with a keen interest in model aviation. Where would aviation be without their incredible contribution?😮

[@davidrichardson8553]

British Aerospace some 35 years ago were paid £250,000 a year for each seconded Fast-Jet Pilot to Saudi Arabia - the Pilot received approximately £60,000 tax free of that (at that time as much as an Air Marshall) - but all the Pilots seconded were extremely experienced with other expensive qualifications such as Qualified Instructors - Weapons Instructors - Instrument Rating Examiners - etc. - and the amount of experience with say 2000 hours flying was in the order of another £80M - so no doubt the Royal Saudi Air Force saw £250,000 a year as an absolute bargain - as they could pay that for 16 years for the price of just training a pilot. But let's be clear it's not about money - the RAF has been totally dismantled.

[@brodiebasterfield1923]

I’m Australian, I was in the Australian army and deployed with the British to Afghanistan in 2007. The differences in our pays was staggering, to the point we were told not to share our pay slips. All militaries need to up there game and pay the soldiers what they deserve

[@lordracula2461]

Yeah that's why a lot of blokes are being poached from UK forces to oz forces now at the offer of doubled wages, sunshine and citizenship in a far richer & safer country. Especially now the oz forces have announced a planned growth in personnel numbers

[@paulcollins2604]

I love your energy and clarity of thought and expression… honestly, £100k is not a lot of money for someone with the level of skill, experience and competence you cite… PWC’s analysis of the ‘value’ of such instructors is the way the business world calculates value; it’s not a moral issue, simply an economic issue. I also agree that we can’t afford to sacrifice the principles of meritocracy for a false understanding of equality… the focus of equality must be on equalising opportunity rather than on focusing on outcome… for me, the perfect example of equality of opportunity in my view is the Premier league, which also has a truly diverse work-force… the focus on performance in a brutally competitive environment will always generate the best results… if we aspire as a society to achieve higher levels of representation of women and ethnic minorities in the RAF, then the emphasis should be on encouraging the passionate engagement of people from these groups in the fields of aviation/engineering from a young age rather than from focusing on quotas or lower standards. BUT… we should also be willing to acknowledge the fact that people from different social classes/.cultures/genders have different interests and abilities… and lastly… my impression is that the predominant motivation of professionals who champion DEI issues in such blunt/numeric forms derives from their own self-promotion rather than a deep philosophical engagement with the issue of social equity itself… I’m a working class white male, an old-fashioned leftie, first person in family to go to university and now I’m a psychiatrist after studying medicine in my 30s. I may not be your typical viewer or supporter, but I agree whole-heartedly that our society must strive to embody meritocratic principles… these are horrifically undermined by focusing on superficial demographically-based identities. If we want greater ‘diversity’ representation in our fighter pilots, then 1) recognise the issue of social class within the analysis (this is actually the key ‘diversity’ issue). 2) increase the exposure of ‘target’ groups to the fundamental fields of interest required as an investment in the future… even go so far as to set up cadetships or sponsorship programmes in schools etc in order that people from ‘diverse’ backgrounds can meet the same standards as are currently expected. 3) view the ‘culture’ developed in the U.K. over the last 100+ years for technical excellence with a focus on aviation (based predominantly in middle and upper middle class white families and schools with a military tradition) as an asset which can be utilised to develop similar models in other social environments rather than being subject to criticism in a perniciously evolving cultural revolution…

[@dugandav1]

The RAF, along with the other services has been catastrophically let down by successive governments as well as the hierarchy of the MOD. As an x serviceman I feel for all the remaining service people who have to work with such self-seeking career hogging buffoons

[@colb715]

Diversity is our weakness

[@Calvi36]

You really need to stop mincing your words Tim! 😁

[@GilbertdeClare0704]

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@adrianflower3230]

Thanks Tim. It's great that there is a platform like this where someone as knowledgeable as you can call out the BS shovel that's been going on.

[@dominiclane8538]

Its their own fault with their ridiculous DEI nonsense .... absolute fools

[@nevsmate8663]

nowt changes over the years, different people same mistakes... I was 'deployed' on the Green Goddesses (with half a day's training) during the Fireman's strikes 1977/78 for their lack of pay rises. The media actually picked up on military pay in comparison to the Fireman & a Public outcry 'forced' pay rises for 'us' too. Unfortunately, our food/accom charges were raised in line & we ended up with around a £1 extra in our pockets per month! (some had less). 😡

[@wilson2455]

the Royal Australian Air Force (RAAF) had/has the same problem where pilots were struggling to maintain minimum flight hours due to budget constraints. Even jet fuel was being rationed. Along come airlines like Qantas, Jetstar, Virgin, etc. with pay rates 3x what they were getting in the Air Force, so they left.

[@mitseraffej5812]

I am a New Zealander and my 21 year old son recently enquired about joining the RAF as a fast jet pilot. He has no desire to fly civilian airliners as I have for most of my working life. The RAF reply was not overly encouraging.

[@MDC2020]

I think a fair pay for anyone with your qualifications should make at least $250,000 a year. Who else is going to do what you do? Less than 1% of the population. Hell, go find some rich guy in Dubai that has a old Mig that wants to learn to fly and make 1 Million a year lol.

[@andyash5675]

A 3% increase in defence spending wouldn't cover paying personnel a decent wage, let alone re-equipping the forces. It's a good job that Rishi has committed to 2.5% by 2030 then! I'd bet Kier revises it down.

[@mikeclark9073]

I'm white, counts me out.

[@cbrider726]

Bang on . This is just the sort of information that civilains need to see . When i served evryone siad go you must be loaded and as your well aware thats not the case at all. We serve because we want to serve and not for money per say. But pay a man what hes worth and you will get respect . Treat him well and he will give his all . Treat him with respect and he will respond.Treat him badley and with no repect and you have lost that person for ever. Great stream mate . 👍👍👍

[@craigvergy]

Well said Tim…..and in layman’s terms that anyone can understand. Couldn’t have said it any better. It’s not just the crappy pay deal but also the whole diversity/quota agenda. The incompetence of people in government is breathtaking. Seemingly intelligent people who choose to run for government seem to loose their sense of ‘common sense’. Because most of them have never worked a real job or run a business, they just have such a big disconnect with how real life works. Our adversaries must be laughing their a*ses off, as Western Militaries diminish their capability in the name of diversity and inclusion. The latest defence force ads in Australia do not picture a fighting force of any kind, instead pushing the diversity agenda with pretty girls in makeup and a uniform. Looks more like a holiday than a military fighting unit. The ADF is beset with a skyrocking amount of young people pulling the mental health card, simply because they opened up the intake to people, who in the past, would never have been accepted into the military. The ADF has even removed mandatory fitness standards for many ADF roles, to get people to join. In time, we’ll have a whole load of obese people serving in the military, who will end up with a lump sum pay out, or Military pension, having been discharged due to health issues, largely as a result of their own lifestyle choices. The system is f***ked and all of the government’s own making. And The people who end up paying for these mistakes are the hard working tax payers.

[@mickthemardy]

My trade went private and as the manpower ran down we were told we were "dead wood" and treated like dirt. Would I do it again? Na.

[@Beastriderpav]

I’d never return under the current circumstances. As my mate poison used to say, ‘fire em forget em fuck em.’.

[@AnthonyJones-vk6xq]

My mate used to use the quote ‘find em forget em fuck em.’.....something to do with girlies apparently !

[@Beastriderpav]

@@AnthonyJones-vk6xq similar mission parameters, similar outcomes

[@primafacie6442]

OMG “Aviator” the woke leadership really had to stretch it to avoid any gender specific words, shame the words human and woman don’t want to conform 😂. If you go back, I bet you will find a DEI 🔔end as your boss, and have to declare your pronouns at every greeting….absolutely soul destroying imho.

[@johnnunn8688]

Unfortunately they ‘ucked up. Aviator is the male term, aviatrix the female. So, basically instead of airman/airwoman, they now just have airmen 🤣😂.

[@ncooper8438]

Just import pilots like other institutions import researchers and engineers etc. Qed.

[@mikenow3050]

I joined the RAF in Jan 1990 its manpower was bigger then than the Army is now. Let that sink in....

[@zargonfuture4046]

They must use DEI personal. 👈😉

[@Ka0s007]

I really dont know how they will fix this, During the 90s while I was at School, I was in the Air Training Corps, I LOVED it, spent as much time as I could doing it and did all the flying I could. I went so often, I could (with an RAF instructor) Take off, Barrel roll, loops etc, I could fly the pattern, break downwind and land. Never went Solo but was encouraged to learn privately. As I lived in a single parent household, there was no way I could continue with private tuition. Did RAF Coltishall as summer camp, when the Jaguars were in service and the cemented me wanting to be a Fast Jet Pilot. Left the ATC at 18 and applied at our careers office. Im not brilliant at Maths, but did OK above C in everything. I was basically told forget it, my ATC stuff was irrelevant even my flight training logs. I was advised to go RAF Regt or the Army. My point is that time is that it was best of the best getting in, which I totally get, but over the years that's bit the RAF in the butt as the best of the best are leaving senior flying posts and there is no one coming up behind them. Throw in all this diversity and woke bullshit and here we are. We cant attract young people, and the pay (I didn't know they got 50k) is bad - I get almost that working in IT in factory up north. How do we go forward?

[@duncanhamilton5841]

Pretty much what happened to me, around the same time. Went full ham on ATC, took every opportunity to get in the air on gliders and Chipmunks. Volunteered for absolutely sodding everything. Got absolutely nowhere at 18 in '94 - although Options For Change was a factor by then. Upon leaving Uni in 97 I joined Minolta as a copier salesman, my basic and commission on good year was double that of a qualified Flt Lt... Curiously, a few years later an old secondary school classmate joined. Had no interest in planes or anything when we were at school, and went into car sales after finishing college. Last I spoke to him, he'd done a turn in the back of Tornados, then got himself upgraded to flying Nimrods in circles over the North Sea for a bit, and that was basically it for his career. Fully qualified, hardly ever flew in all the time he was in.

[@nigelaston2546]

Looks like conscription for the junior ranks is just around the corner.

[@Chris-xv2gm]

That will never happen.

[@jackkruese4258]

This is a problem across the entire public sector. I saw a doctor interviewed recently who said that if pay continues to fall in real terms from the 2010 level doctors will just emigrate. It’s that simple.

[@BukLao-v5h]

Everything woke turns to shit.

[@johnlloyd455]

Well said that man

[@tonybaker1295]

I can't believe how poorly you guys are paid in the RAF. I'm a SNCO in the RAAF and I earn double what a pilot is earning. Not bragging just shocked.

[@billdelicatessen948]

Trade SNCO's have a similar story, huge investment to train (personally 4 years trade school training, and 3 year OTJ) to become a para-engineer. The pay is frozen during covid and then under performs inflation by a mile. Meanwhile defence contractors are getting paid $1000's per day, and most produce nothing.

[@glenith50]

2.5% of GDP by 2030 on military spending…… So about 15 quid then judging by the way the country is going 😂

[@JackosJingles]

"By 2030" until that gets reviewed. And of course it's unlikely the Tories will win the election. In 2030 will anyone remember this anyway?

[@sen6114]

Both French and German fighter pilots are each being paid (when rounded) 100000 Euros! Why is it different for our pilots?

[@TimE-er1kn]

Makes you wondering how they can afford it when their budgets are less, but there have far more active fighter jets than the RAF.

[@barneymcgroo5805]

They’ve worked out it’s cheaper to retain than it is to train. Simples. We’ll eventually figure this out when it’s too late.

[@medler2110]

Is that an average for all pilots or pay for newly qualified pilots?

[@sirvikalcrusader3668]

Because our thicko government gives money away hand over fist to gangster foreign regimes and the Dr's and solicitors crossing the Channel...thus there is no money left over for the things that really matter ie properly funded defence.

[@expatexpat6531]

@@TimE-er1kn I don't know the breakdown for the air forces, but the German defence spending this year is actually 12 BIO Pounds higher than the UK: - German defence spending 2024: 72 BIO Euro - UK defence spending 2024: 51 BIO Pounds = 60 BIO Euro Both countries will spend 2.1% of GDP, Germany admittedly for the first time. German Fighter pilots must commit to 16 years service. Their top salary grade A15 spans 5773 Euros (4942 Pounds) to 7251 Euros (6207 Pounds) per month. As state employees with the status of Beamte (equivalent to civil servants), they don't have to pay into the social security system, only income tax is deducted. Their net income is therefore higher than for a non-state employee on the same salary.

[@clockworkvanhellsing372]

Keep in mind: At least the german foraign minister Baerbock employes with taxmoney a personal hairdresser for ~145,000£ per year. Compare that, whith what the fighter jet pilotes are offered... And maby look at how the payments for politicians have changed in this time frame.