No one can cause me to be ashamed?

[@WatchingMyLifeFlashB]

Thank you!

[@trevorkurzhal]

Sir, can you make a video on explaining why these deponent verbs are now being considered inaccurate/incorrect? I've seen other Greek-teaching channels saying that deponency is "dead" or something of the like. But I've not actually seen anyone yet break down why it's "dead." Thank you for your content!

[@BillMounce]

Whether verbs are deponent, or you accept the new definition of the middle, at the end of the day, these are ομαι verbs are active in meaning

[@exhornnerd]

I think if I was brother Mounce's pastor, I'd just stay a long ways away from mentioning Greek at all... scary, eh?!

[@mattfuller651]

Deponency might not be widely accepted but given his audience it is easier to explain it as deponent rather than the fact that these words, by definition, include some amount of subject affectedness, thus the mid/pass endings. Their being active in translation is primarily due to English. Mounce’s audience for this video do not read Greek. While I don’t agree with deponency and prefer the other explanation, Mounce’s approach ends up in practically the same place and it might be easier to grasp by the audience of this video.

[@GarthDWiebe]

Then you are advocating creating an incorrect term and concept (or, in this case, intentionally propagating one that has been debunked), and then using it as a crutch. I don't think that is a good idea. In response to "that pastor," he could have just pointed out that causality is not built into the spelling of the word. In other words, the source of "shame" is not specified, so you can't use the grammar as a pretext to deduce, "No one can cause me to be ashamed."

[@mattfuller651]

@@GarthDWiebe I wasn’t advocating for his explanation. I actually said I disagreed with it. I merely said it was understandable to go that route. It’s also important to understand that not all scholars have rejected deponency even though most have.

[@GarthDWiebe]

@@mattfuller651 I don't see how it is "understandable" if it is wrong. Of course, you are right that "not all scholars have rejected deponency," and we are looking at one example in this video, case in point. Sadly, I think that the issue is that the many who have written textbooks and other published material would need to walk back what they have published in print, which would be an embarrassment and discredit to their scholarship. Sadly, many times academics will just dig their heels in, ad populum, ad antiquitatem, ad vericundiam.

[@BillMounce]

Thanks. You are right. It's much easier to say the word deponent and convey the idea that while it's passive in form, it's active and meaning then to go into a discussion of the nuances of the middle.

[@GarthDWiebe]

The whole concept of deponency in Greek was debunked many years ago. See papers by Pennington and others. If it is in the middle or passive voice it is for a reason. To get specific about this particular word, I thought to look up and noticed a reference in LSJ and Brill to Nonnus of Panopolis, Dionysiaca 20.61 επαισχυνεις, also 42.421 επαισχυνει, which are both active voice. In any case, to be "ashamed" in Romans 1 :16 is certainly a middle/passive sense, as I would expect the active sense would be to "shame" a person. In saying this I am certainly not endorsing the paster he is complaining about, but what I am saying is that this word in Romans 1 :16 can hardly be thought of as having an "active" meaning.

[@BillMounce]

Debunked as a little strong word. Dan Wallace still accepts opponent. One of his students just did a PhD in England on deponency. It will be interesting to see where this discussion goes overtime.