Shadow of the Colossus - More beta colossi speculations

[@Morlun91]

I'm confident to say the locations for Spider, Phoenix, Sirius and Griffin are 100% legit. It's interesting how the unused colossi helps you imagine the different phases of development (Since Ueda stated they were halfway trough the creation when they scrapped out the 8 colossi). I mean: Sirius is the only one where everything is ready except for the fact he is missing. He almost made it to the final game! Phoenix and Worm had their areas almost nice and ready but then they lost to their rivals: Basaran and Phalanx. Devil and Roc areas once existed in the map, maybe even inside the actual borders who knows, but the map has changed so much they are now untraceable. Just as Ueda stated most of the map was planned out when 8 colossi were already out of the picture, that's why it's so hard to find traces of them. Similar to Spider, but in this case the area didn't change too much and it's easy to locate him. Griffin's situation is even cooler. The map was supposed to be much bigger even at south-east, either that or they were developing a beta arena in the open sea. So we can't really say that was his position in the world, but we can say that as long as he existed that was his liar. Then we arrive to Monkey... I consider this your main theory. It's a shame I3 is void when I2 has the dam and it's so close... Anyway if we consider that space a cave your theory is solid, you even found a path from the dam's cave to that! But what if it isn't? Talking about your blog post I don't know if the height coordinates are a proof since the background of the screenshot is black and they might have been testing the colossus simply in the thin air above the ground and not inside his lair. Also let's remember that is an unfinished area as you know ( imageshack.com/f/30/mapcomparison.gif) and it doesn't resemble the other examples of cave from above (Dirge and Barba where the light holes are very clear), but it reminds me more of a depression, like Basaran's bedlake or beta map Avion's empty lake (look at it!). Now notice the dam is useless without a lake, so could that be another, yet to fill, bedlake? With the path beside which leads to the Dam and maybe Devil's cliff (wild speculation here) ? 2.bp.blogspot.com/-cY9u-_jpR2s/Ti61_6RBmTI/AAAAAAAAAIc/xEga7faAsv0/s640/Dam+map2.jpg I don't know but the feeling that Monkey's situation is the same as Phoenix and Worm is still strong in me. He either lost his arena to Dirge or he never had one in the first place (which would explain the black background and the impressive height 92 metres, too much for the roof of a cave in the game, too far away from the player). I don't know but maybe the last experiment would be if you discover how they made the map. I mean starting from the 3d model which filters did they use to make it look like a painting? This way you could finally discover, with a bit of comparisons, how did it look like as a 3d model. I'd love to know your opinion on this.

[@Morlun91]

Nomad Colossus We came a long way from this initial comment, didn't we? XD

[@nhunghong8318]

Morlun91 i

[@paulasanchez7947]

Y7

[@NomadColossus]

You'll also notice that in the image of the early Entrance you can see Wander's life meter... so I think in early builds Wander could run around back there which would lend credence to the Spider being at F0. Perhaps you passed by the entrance temple to fight the Spider?

[@Gravitycrazy]

i wish the devs would add the other colossi in like a lore book or something.they could use the angle, that wander couldn't have been the only one to try to revive someone, maybe others could have tried to take on the colossi and failed only killing the beta colossi. it would give me some closure for the game

[@NomadColossus]

Nice ; ) I have explored this idea before in a blog post about 'Previous Wanderers' but I didn't go into the 8 discarded colossi, rather a previous traveller that visited the forbidden lands before Wander! nomads-sotc-blog.blogspot.com.au/2011/08/previous-wanderers-theory.html

[@shazmah]

​@@NomadColossus hey Nomad, what do you think of #2's broken horn? Could just be symbolism but I wonder about a possible in-universe explanation

[@Yasakaniix]

the map sometimes felt empty... i wish some of these colossi had made it to the game. (English isn't my native)

[@aguyiguess7795]

Dude you didnt make any mistakes

[@deno8587]

@@aguyiguess7795 just in case lol

[@darshio8307]

I think that, makes the world empty is one of the purpose of the game, because it makes you feel small in a way

[@antipsychotic451]

@@chrisspeed270 Non-native English speakers would generally have a harder time knowing if their English is "correct" than a native speaker who knows the intricacies of the language. He's saying it just in case he wasn't able to detect any serious errors in his writing.

[@blackscreen23923]

I feel like if it wasn't a bunch of empty plains and the game was just running from one colossus to the next along straight paths it would suck. Just goofing around in the open plains is super fun

[@NomadColossus]

Apparently it used stalagmites on the cave roof to move around. Maybe it shot energy bolts at Wander? You shot at weak spots on it's arms with arrows until it fell to the ground (like we do with 8) then you could stab its weak spot.

[@hellenmuffato4871]

This Nomad is intelligent... o.o

[@Mlghaloreach11]

If I ever become a game programmer this will be the first thing I do, re-create SOTC and add in all the beta colossi

[@vegangainsarmyrecruit5060]

Do it... now

[@Mlghaloreach11]

***** I wish I could do it now, believe when I say that there is so much I would want to add to it

[@alexzaze1407]

o would need permission of ueda and colossi 3d models and code

[@crystalaila1818]

@@Mlghaloreach11 Please not only recreate colossi but also try to make original ending- I wish to see original ending

[@DLBBALL]

@@crystalaila1818 The comment you were replying to was 5 years old... Besides, a game the scale of SOTC requires more than 1 person working on it if there's any hope of some fan-made version being finished in under a decade of development.

[@NomadColossus]

Correct. There are 24 save shrines + the Shrine of Worship itself (which acts as one huge save shrine). So it begs the question if each colossi has a save shrine near it where were the other 8 beta colossi located? I still think they were put in various places around the map (including the beta lands) so they might have just moved the save shrines to the mainland instead of deleting 8 of them like they did with the colossi. But you would think they should have 16 save shrines only.

[@probability_density]

It's interesting to compare the speculation in this video with what we know now

[@NomadColossus]

I have the NICO dvd and there is no video or images of the Monkey. There is a sketch of the Monkey in the art book holding onto stalactites but in no way does it describe where the cave is.

[@NomadColossus]

Greetings ; ) Yeah that's the OPM demo, I've made a detailed blog post about its differences to the final version.

[@Hydra_X9K_Music]

Wow. Eight years later and this game is still wrapped around by mystery. This game was fun and mysterious as well

[@lucybeta1618]

rip 8 beta colossus :'v

[@hephaistos5367]

i want so bad a new version of shadow of the colossus with the 24 colossi

[@Ranstone]

There were originally 64... Ueda said they quickly realized this was way too much, and after they decided SOTC was not going to be a MMOG, they lowered it to 32, then 24, 20, then 16. Why Am I replying to a two year old comment?

[@Kambocya7482]

@@Ranstone idk bro

[@NomadColossus]

He did think about 48 colossi at first, but they only actually worked on 24. There are 81 squares on the map, so there was plenty of room for more, but even 24 turned out to be too many in the end. The stuff about Dionin can't be confirmed so until someone can provide a source for where this info came from we can't be sure it's true.

[@NomadColossus]

Yes, I thought of the lake in 9's cave, but it's not very big... I don't think the Phoenix would have fit into it, and yes I realized my error too late, I put the 'e' where the 'o' should be. I also spelt Griffin as Griffon in the last video, although this is OK as it has different spellings.

[@Armidillodude]

Making a single colossi be as lifelike as they all are must've been incredibly tough and the game itself is probably in my top 5 if not my favorite game every made. I'm just really really let down to see those 8 beta colossi and how they had like a model and a full idea ready, they all seemed like they would work and having 8 more colossi would've made this game just that much better, 16 is impressive but I know all the fights too well now and I'm pretty sure it's never getting a sequel, it's just a shame to know that there's so little of such a great game

[@jethrotacuboy97]

Type in The Last Guardian, that's the closest thing to a sequel for ya

[@NomadColossus]

The other three beta colossi - the Roc, the Worm and the devil I have no idea about as the images give me no usable information. There is a uniquely shaped mountain in the background of a Roc image, but as yet I haven't found it. But as to the where the Devil and the Worm lived, I have no clue.

[@Dovahmouse]

god, I wish they would make a kind of uncut version of this game... with the 8 cut colossi in it as sort of like an optional boss fight. Don't need to defeat them to win the game.. but you're still able to fight them.

[@NomadColossus]

I've got the art book and there is no image of the Monkey in the cave? Where did you see this image exactly? And what video did you see?

[@kingzilladonx]

Hey Nomad, i was playing Shadow of the Colossus the other day and noticed something that i haven't heard anyone mention and just wanted to share it. I noticed that there is a savee point near just about every colossus, and then a bunch of others. I happened to find a save point very near where you said Sirius, the Phoenix, and the Spider may have been. So i came to the conclusion that each extra save point may have indicated a possible site for one of the beta colossus.

[@mcrazza]

4:18 Very good work! Seriously, Nomad, top investigative work all round. :)

[@btab2772]

This video is VERY outdated lol. But it’s still fun to look back at old theories every now and again since the facts about the beta colossi nowadays are so complicated

[@pyro8362]

rip all 32 colossus ._.

[@MattLeDonne27]

@@AndrewMobileBrasilIntitally Ueda wanted to have 48 which the team then promptly cut down to 24 then further down to 16

[@NomadColossus]

Empty quadrants...

[@Mlghaloreach11]

I'm surprised no one has tried to even recreate the models for these, I would love to see the phionex, and the spider

[@TheFatestPat]

That's awesome that they changed the columns in the intro from 24 to 16. Such great attention to the smallest of details. You rarely see that in games.

[@TomScaiola]

I'd love if a group of people, including you, Nomad, would get together and start designing and making a mod that adds all these colossi and more to the game. It would be so increibly amazing.

[@lukakiljac5662]

I dont know if anyone noticed this before, im just going to say it. Every time Wander kills a Colossus, part of the colossus, dark part, enter Wander, at the end of the game Wander turns into a shadowy colossus, so he probably takes every part of the colossis he taked to turn ito that shadowy colossus, i noticed that when Wander is a colossus he has some kind of spider legs on his back, does that mean that the spider colossus is still in the game? Only one problem is that Wander never killed the spider colossus so he couldnt absorb the darkness of the colossus so im not so sure about that theory. Maybe game developers just wanted to make him look cooler. One more thing, at the final cut scene we can see that the Emon has the white horse, everyone else has a black horse, when you finish evey mode in the game Agro turns white, maybe Emon defeated some other colossis too?

[@hunteruwu9014]

i believe the things on his back are the legs of phaedra, i dont know why but it's my only explanation as to which colossi in the current game it could be, but i do believe your speculation is correct, But they certainly didn't put every single colossi into the appearance, i see nothing that resembles that of: Kuromori, Cenobia, Argus, Hydrus, Barba, Quadratus, Gaius, Celosia, Or Pelagia. Except maybe the height for Barba/Argus/Pelagia/Gaius. But nothing on the body, face or legs that resemble any of those.

[@gladiusbladeofthenorth9939]

Hunter I'm pretty sure the legs are either from phalanx,basaram or actually from spider(dormin didin't really change that much at development,so they may have kept the spider legs)

[@W.H.V.]

I don't really think he has a specific feature for each colossus, he doesn't even really havea specific feature for most of them.

[@saturnswachter841]

Luka Kiljac he came and took on 24??

[@loirigudo]

These are some retarded tryhard theories, shut up dude

[@NomadColossus]

Yeah, that image is weird. Not sure if it's an official image or a fan made one. It's not on the NICO dvd or in the art book though.

[@NomadColossus]

I don't have the skills to do that, I can only work with what's already there, not add new stuff. But I can make pictures of them in Photoshop but beyond that we'd need a 3D model maker, someone adept with Maya for instance.

[@NomadColossus]

666 is widely accepted to mean 'CAESAR NERO' not the 'devil' as most people think. He was the bad guy in those days hence John says 'it is the number of a man'. So there's no significance to this number, same goes with 13.

[@Kooky159]

The Devs of Shadow of the Colossus should make an expansion/remaster and include the 8 cut Colossi, and put them where they were originally going to be. It would solve a lot of the mystery and speculation, and it would possibly improve an already epic game :)

[@NomadColossus]

Yes, but they don't say where this info comes from, all we really know is from the art book. I'd love to know where they got this info about the Worm from.

[@GarryDKing]

considering the beginning of the game there are at least 5 shadows that come over behind wander before he even goes after any colossi, it's safe to say that maybe someone else defeated the beta colossi (or at least 4 to 5 of them.), but failed to defeat all of them and was likely axed off by valus. But it would be cool if they remake this game again on playstation's next console if they finally add the beta colossi

[@NomadColossus]

No, it just some videos of early trailers etc.

[@Bignastycupcake]

Nomad you were right about the Monkey being in that cave. I looked at an early art book image and he was climbing around on the ceiling. I also seen a video of them going to the monkey from the Shrine of Worship. That cave was supposed to be we're dirge is but they moved him because it was too small.

[@NomadColossus]

That info is from the SotC wiki - which was mostly made up. The idea that the Spider killed you instantly is found no where else (i.e. not in the official art book), so I don't think it's true.

[@viniciussaragiotto4617]

At 8:50 valus eyes remembered me of the strange images that i saw one day in the colossus's arenas. like in the Barba's arena but i just remembered I don't know if it is really similar. Whatever i liked your video it's really amazing!

[@332211ggGHGFF]

Thank you Nomad for making this. You probably read/hear this a lot but wow... Such an amazing thing to find out so many years later... I wonder how you take the spider colossus down :)

[@salahad-din9168]

Using the horseback technique similar to that of the one in skyrim. Slash it's legs down.

[@tyrionlannister4850]

And there was another sand worm. If i remember correcly, it was supposed to be fought just after Dirge. It may just be a rumor.

[@JanjoZone]

i remember hearing some where that the worm was supposed show up after a colossus died, but I could be wrong on that

[@Mlghaloreach11]

I don't know why but for the worm it feels like it would be where the underwater serpant is

[@NomadColossus]

That was early Phalanx (13)

[@NomadColossus]

You're welcome ; )

[@Flama741]

It's a possibility... After seeing your video, I decided to remember these old pictures that Sony showed to us with some beta colossi, and I found a strange art (probably fan made) wich showed Wander walking with Agro, and some cenobia-size colossi running besides him, without even caring. I got the idea that maybe some colossi were designed to appear at random times, when you're exploring the land or going to another colossus. It'd be really awesome.

[@Arsio12]

Phoenix, Spider, Sirius and Monkey shown in this video. Then there is also Griffin (shown in another video, fought with Agro) and the others being named as Demon (a gargoyle-like Colossus whose area looked like a ruin with many broken pillars, where according to a wiki you fought by hiding in the tall grass), Worm (a giant desert worm, enough said) and Roc (a giant bird like Avion but with a long neck, Agro would be with you in this battle).

[@robreedwrites]

There's a lake between Basaran and #10 with dead trees on a cliff near the lake. I noticed it for the first time today. The lake is quite large and is deep enough to swim for most of it. I think that might be where Phoenix was once located.

[@landonmccabe9279]

Could you show us a video of the sirius animations left behind? I would really like to see that

[@detonador852]

i was wondering , if you find a colossus, the clouds would disappear, right? so... why put clouds, outside the map? .-.

[@NomadColossus]

That's not what the art book says

[@JanjoZone]

I kinda wished they released an expansion game with the extra colossi

[@TheAntlionGuard]

I'm pretty sure someone has mentioned this or you may have noticed already but I just have to say it anyway. The art book mentions plunging Phoenix into a lake to defeat it. If i'm not mistaken, in the preview version there was a lake where Basaran was sleeping and since you pointed out that the trees in the pictures of Phoenix look almost exactly like the ones in Basaran's area, I think that could almost prove your theory.

[@UglyFilms64]

In the final game, there is an area close Malus' area that is rocky and is like a maze. It is obviously too small for a colossus area but it look kinda like the area in the backround of devil's area, just a thought, though.

[@kerplop]

Wow... Hearing about the missing Colossi is almost as eerie as discussing the ones that are there.

[@JanjoZone]

love this video man! amazing stuff here

[@clcy_morph]

We have the confirmation, the phoenix lived in i7

[@Bignastycupcake]

One more thing.... At the intro scene you look up and see an EXTRA five or six columns alined in a circle, and Adar flam was killed by being dunked in a lake and a DRY lake bed... I feel something goin on....

[@pausetimemugen6301]

I was exited to see some of the cut Colossi in the remake, like Pholux in the secret garden if you waited for 20 minutes. Or Aberth if you would light something in the area, and all of a sudden. I'm not sure that they would have been colossi however, just random monsters in the game.

[@NomadColossus]

Check my blog - I have all the info about them in there. Just google 'Nomad's Shadow of the Colossus blog' and you will find it ; )

[@RunninRebelBen]

What I wouldn't give to watch or read an interview between Fumito Ueda and Nomad...so much speculation could finally be cleared up.

[@JustZerk]

True but if so are any of the areas around the shrine big enough to fight Dionin?judging by the pictures in the art book he was roughly the size of phalanx if not bigger and he burrowed.

[@JamieFromTheCafe]

well from the picture of it,it looks like it was either in a cave or in a desert which means it could be where dirge is or where phalanx is.

[@Lili_th_ko]

I love this channel

[@gnpgaming2968]

I think Shadow of the Colossus on ps2.... I don't remember exactly but, I think there was Phoenix at D3

[@AurabladeX]

id like to see them make some sort of minigame with the 8 colossus that were removed like shadow of the colossus the lost 8 with some new character who heard about what had happened and wanted to see for himself

[@landonbangerter]

Yes!!!!

[@Bignastycupcake]

The video was from the NICO DVD my friend has it and used it over again and found out the monkey around the ceiling. And the art book image was the monkey you used in your vid and placed in dirges cavern which most people say it looks like it would have been there.

[@kideiji58]

Nomad, is it possible to reach I3 & I5 with paracute?

[@Gravitycrazy]

i wish the full 48 were created, when they cut to 24 and then 16 colossi were actually made before all those cuts to the game but the limitations for devs were too much :'(

[@Morlun91]

I think they were supposed to be 32 at one point. Anyway interestingly enough they didn't even make it to the ideation part, there are not even drawings outside of the 24. I'm happy with what we got and not all of the 8 unused ones were interesting, more than a couple just look a bit of a more of the same.

[@NomadColossus]

No. The only way to get there is to hack the game. But there's nothing there in any case, just empty quadrants.

[@TheDropdaworld]

Quick question about the story of is shadow of the colossus this the prequel to ico and then it's the last guardian...

[@NomadColossus]

TheDropdaworld We don't know this yet, until TLG comes out we will have to wait and see.

[@vlwallace224]

I wish there was a wolf colossus

[@GasparMoT]

They should've put in at least some of the unused Colossi in the remastered version.

[@JM-fx2cc]

As dlc for sure but it would be really hard to create them again and with new arenas

[@SpiritofWander1]

I always thought that Basaran´s arena was similar to the Phoenix(you wrote Pheonix).About the lake,we didn´t have a like inside the cave?Maybe in the first version there wasn´t a cave there.

[@adrilu240]

This was awesome... thank you very much for sharing this and your speculations :)

[@الامبراطورجيتون]

Where is the location of this temple ? Where I can see these columns ?

[@NomadColossus]

It's only visible during the opening cut scene and you need to hack the game to see it.

[@الامبراطورجيتون]

@@NomadColossus ok thank you

[@metagrinder]

Lol i always think those spider legs things on the Dormin back was the Aberth legs, because Dormin is made with parts of the colossus.

[@chrismartin2882]

Ohh dude its true!!!

[@gregwangan]

I had a dream just like that! Neither were actual colossi from the game, but dreams of giant monsters are always welcome in my head.

[@wachinchonchan]

i loved this game since i first played it. but.... when i explored it........i started to fell sad becouse of the amount of spot for colossi and secrets you could clearly see its a great game but at the same time. so empty

[@tyrionlannister4850]

Your video was great, but it didn't mention the dragon and the other sand worm. Do you have any theories about them or do you mention them in your other videos?

[@FilhoDeSkyrim]

Wow man your sense of investigation is awesome you could be a detective!

[@Bignastycupcake]

I don't know if it is real it could be but I'll try and find more details of the image, one more thing those extra columns? For decoration or something else...?

[@Sulhi-x6s]

Phoenix: my rivals had arrived worm: me too Basaran: I will hunt you down Phalanx : these idiots doesn't Monkey: hey you saucy Bata

[@135SolidSnake]

You know what also interests me?before you leave to fight Basaran, Dormin says, "Thy next foe is.... In the land of blackened earth where trees nary grow.... It sleeps in a DRY LAKE BED... A rude awakening." This makes me think either that Phoenix was to be beaten first so that the lake bed could be dried out (possibly from his flames if possible?) and geysers would burst out, or it's a hint that he was originally supposed to be there.

[@demenciagamer9390]

3 pilastras caidas aí tem coisa eu ainda acredito q tem colossus secretos no game

[@djkoopz]

Man this is a great video! So many questions!

[@gregwangan]

Are they still (supposedly) working on a SOTC movie? I don't know how I feel about that.

[@ninjazexionfan815]

if ever comes shadow of the colossus 2 i hope they are there...i feel bad for all colossi.

[@xenoguy1233]

What about "The Devil" and "The Worm" cut colossi?

[@NomadColossus]

Sorry, I have no info on where those colossi lived. Perhaps the worm lived where 13 is today but that is just speculation. There is no info in the art book about these colossi.

[@pascalsvl]

plus: not so much is know about the Worm and The Devil "Pholux"

[@salahad-din9168]

Devil looks close to the shrine at that place before the shady forest with the darker redder ground. I haven't played this is many many years so forgive me if my location is off.

[@ascendingsoup5518]

Maybe the devs could release a new sotc game. The same game as we all know and love, but with the 8 discarded colossi, or even the 32 that were discarded.

[@gilgard1115]

There is a large area at H7. Possibly part of a collosi lair?

[@NomadColossus]

OK, turns out it is fan made. The file is called 'IGN readers design their own colossus'. Another mystery solved ; )

[@shehzadk123]

For me the pheonix was at gaius's place because there is a huge space and you gotta kill him by bringing him to the water and ithere is water on gaius's place and also there is the same tree there too...

[@ReluctantWarrior]

I need to find that Artbook.

[@NomadColossus]

They are always for sale on eBay

[@Flama741]

Go to google, then type "Shadow of the Colossus beta colossi". Go to the first link that appears. It's the 41th image I think.

[@dieselpower1133]

I heard in the beta version , that the eight colossi is glitched...... So you cannot face it.

[@ValkyrieCain123]

have you ever seen the 'black bird' glitch? apparently it's a early version of Avion you sometimes see, i was just wondering because i wanted to know if it was fake or not ^^

[@TomScaiola]

I know, that's why I think it should be a group of experts in all that stuff, but you need to be there, I love the way you think and admire this game as much as I do... Maybe one day I hope.

[@Scrubermensch]

there is these trees near the cenobia 14° colossus and the face of the phoenix you can see

[@illeatyochildren6673]

I would have really like to see these guys in the final game

[@monkeypoo1993]

hitboxes and values are coded to everything in any game so a fatal 1-hit K.O. flaw seems highly unlikely.