"Not Original"

[@disappointedidealist1989]

As my wife would say "things become tropes for a reason, it's okay to enjoy them."

[@FormalFilmsProductions]

Exactly

[@iwakeupandboomimarat]

honestly i feel like people should rlly stop saying tropes r inherently bad, i feel like cliches is a more negative term that would work but tropes exist for a reason bc they WORK in media

[@poweroffriendship2.0]

@@iwakeupandboomimarat They don't know the difference between a trope and a cliche. Tropes are more like the anatomy of storytelling. That's why TV Tropes is one of my favorite sites that help me understand how the tropes work. (And be warned, it's addicting).

[@iwakeupandboomimarat]

@@poweroffriendship2.0 oh im addicted to tvtropes too lmao, its geniunely interesting as well especially in media analysis

[@poweroffriendship2.0]

@@iwakeupandboomimarat Yeah. My favorite tropes are "villain protagonist" and "vile villain, saccharine show".

[@EarlyOwOwl]

"Beastars is basically Zootopia" wow it's almost like a society made of different species of animals is an interesting concept that can be explored through different angles and ideologies and used as a metaphor for different things.

[@motwaaagh]

Tailspin did it first.

[@onijester56]

"Detective Pikachu is just Zootopia", and I thoroughly enjoyed both.

[@dorsab8627]

Whoever said beastars is basically zootopia clearly had never heard of kelile and demne , or esop ... or... basically FABLE

[@davidlantz3302]

What about Animal Farm?

[@poweroffriendship2.0]

@@davidlantz3302 "Animal Farm is just a rip-off of Aesop's fables sprinkle with political allegory." ~ Comrade Critic

[@vampragon4386]

Rango has one of the best "liar revealed" plot points of any movie I've seen because Rango actually gets called out on it rather than everyone just finding out on their own, and everyone who finds out isn't repeating generic "how could you" dialogue; they're almost completely silent as he walks out of the town while he doesn't bother to defend himself, and it sells the entire scene.

[@FormalFilmsProductions]

Exactly

[@dango6266]

Rango's just a masterpiece.

[@Merdicano]

Couldn't have said it better, like, its more of them pondering about who Rango actually really is instead of judging him. Like, they still don't know who is Rango

[@munromister777]

Aladdin is also one of the best liar revealed plots, because it's tied heavily to his character arc, where he has to learn that it's ok to be himself, and even then, you understand why he did lie, since A) he's been a street rat nearly his entire life, so he has to lie just to be able to survive and B) his status as a street rat that barely anyone cares about gives him massive self doubt and self-esteem issues that makes him think no one could ever care about someone like him.

[@NobodyC13]

@@munromister777 It also helps that when Aladdin was outed, it wasn't done in a typical "Liar Revealed" structure: outed, anger, then banishment from the offended party. Jafar acquired so much magic and power that the whole thing was chaos, leaving everyone with confused emotions, and Aladdin was banished by Jafar and the whole palace now at his mercy. By the time the film reaches its resolution, everyone, especially Jasmine, had had time to digest and understand Aladdin's motives (in hindsight, Jasmine pulled a Liar Revealed when she pretended to be a peasant in the First Act, so she knows how he feels wanting to become a different person).

[@BugsyFoga]

I personally feel it's okay to accept things that aren't completely original , just as long as those said things try their own take on what they're trying to make , rather than not completely trying.

[@Tequila4Days]

A very reasonable take

[@erichfiedler1481]

I got a few examples, Konosuba and Re:Zero are labeled as Isekai, but are different takes on deconstructing the tropes, like our protagonists, their companions, and their goals in said worlds

[@The_NPC20]

As a person who wants to make a manga, I like people like you.

[@JIreland1992]

That’s why the “it’s unoriginal” argument exists. If a chief complaint of a movie is that it is unoriginal then the film hasn’t told its story in any kind of unique or interesting way.

[@Danbo22987]

Isn’t that most of Disney anyways?

[@lunacron]

The whole "not original" thing, is just a phase everybody goes through, I did the same thing in my teenage years, when I started noticing the obvious patterns and started to put things into categories and you start getting bored very quickly because everything is so similar. I mean almost every story is basically the same thing, just with a change of name, location and time, but after a few years your nostalgia for the things you grow up with kicks in and the repetition is almost comforting in a way, because it's so familiar.

[@lloydlandrum3040]

You need at least a new spin on things or its dull and boring .. it also hurts if its a reboot or remake.. but ya So long as one doesn't go '' Its bad because its not original'' usually its okay as when someone says'' its bad because its far too predictable or formulaic '' it usually actually holds merit as when yes too predictable or formulaic can work for a enjoyable and good plot and story aswell as game .. it often doesn't .. Same with when going and saying'' Too generic'' as while extremely generic stories can and does work its a few and far between matter in most cases

[@Scalesthelizardwizard]

I noticed patterns but I never complained about orinality

[@terrancebloxlore3209]

i may seen on how things are "Un-Original", but I just let most of them slide as They Tried To Tried, unlike Bad Remakes

[@jacksquatt6082]

I think with time, a lot of the "samey" or "generic" feeling falls away. Trends in art and entertainment shift, so that stuff which was "unoriginal" back when it was made end up looking better when seen from another era with different trends. When we look back at older stuff, we're not surrounded by those prevailing trends anymore, and it feels different by context.

[@paintedjaguar]

SomeSmartass - "oh, Avatar is trash because it's really just Dances With Wolves/Fern Gully". Me - "So I'm guesssing that you never even heard of 'A Man Called Horse', right?" On the other hand, I haven't even seen "Raya" but just looking at the clips in this video makes me realize how frelling tired I already am of "edgy" asymmetrical shaved haircuts and even the body language of "strong" Millennial girls. Oh, and nose rings too... the Millennial version of the tramp stamp.

[@xxTC-96xx]

yep, I wince whenever I see the liar revealed trope but I'll watch found family again and again until I die with just as much joy as I always had, just depends on the person and the trope, but complaining that a story has tropes is like complaining a tree is made of wood

[@hannahmills9959]

I think the difference between "twist villain" and "found family" is that more often than not, twist villains are really predictable, and the whole trope relies on subverting expectations. And when the villain is revealed, the movie tends to act like it wasn't obvious at all. And if it wasn't obvious, it's probably too out of left field to make any sense. Wheras with found family, it can fit into anything and probably work really well, because it doesn't rely on a separate subgenre.

[@purpellent]

agreed

[@-Desire]

Yesss, I love a good found family on an adventure trope. Inject that into my VEINS

[@pinkajou656]

That is a genius and hilarious comparison.

[@moniqueperkinsmp]

undertale

[@IAmSelym]

The title instantly made me think about The Book Of Life and Coco and how people argue about it.

[@Little1Cave]

Oh God that whole debacle. Can’t have more than one Day of the Dead movie, can we? 🙄

[@rudito22]

And the thing is, I ADORE both. Book of Life goes for a more comedic tone, while Coco is a more straight take on it. Both are phenomenal, and people fighting over which one is better is dumb, especially now that Disney owns the rights to both.

[@nbewarwe]

We can't have more than 1 Day of the Dead movie, but we can have a new Christmas movie every year?

[@NobodyC13]

Book of Life is the Orpheus and Eurydice myth or Moulin Rouge! with a turn-of-the-century Mexican backdrop. Coco is Spirited Away with a modern Mexican backdrop. Edit: A thought occurred that Coco is also Spirited Away MEETS Corpse Bride since the latter shares a similar plot of having a deceased character confront their murderer, especially when said murderer has a privileged background.

[@IAmSelym]

@@unicornlover1237 what.

[@Mr.EintheMorning]

I take a lot of inspirations in my writing. The key is to take that inspiration and put your own spin on it instead of copying it wholesale.

[@emilia4516]

I don’t know how to say this but that is how people should always do it

[@Zero_Is_Stopping_Time]

So do I, for example in my writing thing I’m working on I got inspiration from warriors for a few aspects

[@danthezan6455]

True i also do that as well and try to make my own thing

[@anthonyglover4767]

And folks, this is what we call art. Simple, different, beautiful.

[@poweroffriendship2.0]

I've been working on a story about a villain protagonist invading a sugar bowl. It's something like what happened if a Care Bear villain is the main focus.

[@alexmac8000]

Magic schools aren’t remotely original at this point, but I’ve still seen people have completely different takes on them that change the entire experience.

[@alexmac8000]

ALYSON MATSON I haven’t seen it yet, but I plan to. It’s amazing how even something as simple as tone, like in The Magicians, can breath fresh life into a trope.

[@Duck-mn8xp]

Yeah! Just because the terf that shall not be named did it and it got popular doesn’t mean that every other magic school thing is ripping her off or something. I’ve seen a lot criticism of magic school-centric things like, for example The Adventure Zone:Graduation, be that they’re just pulling from Harry Potter. But, using the same example, Heronimus Wiggenstaff’s School for Heroism and Villainy is pretty much nothing like Hogwarts. That’s the case with a lot of “hp knockoffs”

[@jadenmamangon9016]

Yes! That show’s fanbase is growing by the minute.

[@chrissy9997]

I've seen main character with no magic goes to magic school and has to hide that they don't have magic three times now in anime and manga alone, and I enjoy all three of them.

[@BlueSparxLPs]

Not a show, but a game: I really love Wizard101 because of stuff like this. It initially took heavy inspiration from Harry Potter for its magical school setting, but it's very much its own thing that imo takes the magical school theme in a unique direction distinguished enough that I don't even think about Harry Potter when I play.

[@Inlelendri]

"Ugh, gonna have food again. Yesterday we had pork chops with roasted carrots, cabbage and potatoes and today we're going to have chicken breast with stir-fried vegetables and noodles. It's still meat, vegetables and starch, I mean, it's basically the same thing!"

[@imaymellow]

Best way to describe this situation

[@carlotta4th]

You might be young, food does become very "ugh, AGAIN?" the older you get.

[@imaymellow]

@@carlotta4th Yeah but you still need food even if you always get the same thing

[@MattEldritchHorror]

@@carlotta4th True. My parents aren't much for trying new stuff out and I wanna learn to cook to make more variety. Its been ages since I've had Chicken Parmesan and I want it so bad.

[@pLanetstarBerry]

Me, who cooks: "But I had so much fun making this! Can you at least give it a try?" Honestly, that's how I feel as a writer.

[@Carlos-Cordero.]

I still like animated films even if means they're not *clear throat* original

[@andyvassileff6592]

Exactly! You could technically say that Avatar isn't original because it uses real life comparisons, but it's still great isn't it?

[@andyvassileff6592]

Saying this and then whatching the video has made me realize how perfect Avatar is.

[@poweroffriendship2.0]

Yeah

[@anonymouslucario285]

What's with the asterisks?

[@poweroffriendship2.0]

_"Original minds are not distinguished by being the first to see a new thing, but instead seeing the old, familiar things that is overlooked as something new."_ *~ Friedrich Nietzsche*

[@COCO-tm3gp]

“We live in a society” -Friedrich Nietzsche

[@devinpaul9026]

@@COCO-tm3gp "Friedrich Nietzsche." --The Joker.

[@corryjamieson3909]

@@COCO-tm3gp where honor is distant memory

[@devinpaul9026]

I'm the one man alive who has not only HEARD of Herman's Head-- but has even SEEN a small piece of it.

[@aaronsarchive82]

I think of Herman's Head every morning at work when I get into the elevator.

[@a.rustici1972]

Nice❗️! :D❗️! 👍😎👌❗️!

[@titaniumjackal]

Celly has never heard of Herman's Head, so apparently nobody has.

[@swanpride]

I actually saw a fair share of it....it was fun.

[@jacksquatt6082]

I saw a bit of it. It had some good moments, from what I recall. It also had a parody skit from Mad TV (if you remember that show), where Herman had a psychotic delusion that murdered the rest of the archetype-emotions.

[@primequartz7292]

I do wish more people would be willing to admit that they just dont personally like a thing (but that doesnt make it "bad" or less "good") rather than try and look for objective critique to root that in, in order to explain or justify their personal tastes

[@stryke-jn3kv]

See also the 'it's problematic' trap. Been there myself as it can be so fucking easy to do it's almost seductive. I'm not trashing this because I think it's bad but because it's objectively BAD, and anyone who likes it is WRONG, and probably DEGENERATE, and won't someone please think of the children?!!

[@poweroffriendship2.0]

Yeah. They seemed to be nitpicking on something they don't like and called it a "rip-off" simply because of the mentioned similarities in cartoons (or any kind of storytelling medium). There's no such thing as "original" as what everyone says. For example, people compared Johnny Test to Dexter's Laboratory simply because it has similarities. While Johnny Test was not as bad as everyone made out to be, I think the argument is still invalid which that's because they both have similar premises doesn't mean it's considered to be a "rip-off".

[@fermintenava5911]

I disagree. If it were that simple, we'd literally just clinge to the next best reason and never could improve our outlook. I've done several objective reviews of episodes from my favourite series so I could put things in perspective, and more appreciated "okay" - episodes as a result.

[@primequartz7292]

@@poweroffriendship2.0 I'm gonna be honest, the Johnny Test/Dexter's Lab comparison always confused the heck out of me. Did everyone else watch the same show I did? They're nothing alike.

[@poweroffriendship2.0]

@@primequartz7292 That's the whole point. People always said that Johnny Test is considered to be a "rip-off" to Dexter's Laboratory when it's not meant to be. I think the real issue of Johnny Test is that the quality went decline to the point where the animation went cheap via Flash, the story gets repetitive, the humor becomes annoying, unlikeable characters, and infinite whipcracks. That's the problem that should be overlooked on why Johnny Test is bad in the first place but I think that's CN's fault for handling the too poorly and adored like a circus lion being tamed in terms of cruelty. That goes the same with TTG nowadays. If WB Kids hadn't shut down and never moved to Canada, then Johnny Test would've been a different show than what we got. I don't see both Johnny Test and TTG as bad, more like a life of tragedy.

[@MusicDecomposer]

I'm surprised you didn't mention anything about scene recycling in sequels. *"hOmE aLoNe 2 iS tHe SaMe aS tHe FiRsT MoViE!"* Yeah, well so is Terminator 2, but most people like that better than the first. Actually, I could argue that _all_ sequels are just repeats. If a sequel is too different, then it's not even really a sequel, it's just a separate movie that takes place in the same universe. For example, Cars 2 should've been labeled as a spin-off instead of a sequel. I like sequels when they up the ante. In Home Alone 2, it takes place in a bigger location, the booby traps are more painful, and Kevin is defending a toy store/children's hospital instead of just his own house. It's funnier too, in my opinion. It feels like a more epic, grand adventure.

[@BroZilla-vh3tu]

The best example of a sequel being almost identical to the original is 22 Jump Street IMO

[@jacksquatt6082]

I think when most people talk about how they dislike sequels, it's less about if the movie has already been done before, and more about if it was done better in the original. Most sequels are not better than the original, so people feel like they're wasting their time.

[@anomalocaris9246]

Shrek 2

[@poweroffriendship2.0]

Yeah. I feel like people hated the sequels for not living up the original storyline and there are times that can be justified. Look at the direct-to-video sequels of animated Disney films, for example, but not all of them are bad. Peter Pan 2: Return to Neverland is the best Disney sequel. Even Pixars has problems with sequels too, and just like you said that Cars 2 should be a spin-off instead of a sequel. For me, Cars 2 has good moments but it doesn't feel like a Pixar movie anymore due to the lack of magic and people says that _Cars_ franchise is the worst thing ever because of merchandising. I don't care what everyone said and I don't give a damn about merchandise but the first Cars movie will always be in my heart and Cars 3 is the real sequel.

[@GodOfOrphans]

Bad examples, T2 actually changes A LOT, bigger supporting cast, whole Cyberdyne sub plot, character progression from the first film, etc. Home Alone 2 has several scenes and plotlines play out almost identical to the original with the primary difference being location what with being set primarily in a hotel as opposed to the house and the stuff that involves the hotel staff is where most of the significant changes come in and even then they are dealt with somewhat similarly to the bandits anyway. Your heart's in the right place but you picked quite possibly the worst 2 examples possible and actively hurt your argument in the process.

[@gracechica14]

There are genres for a reason! Everything influences everyone and there’s nothing wrong with that

[@deargodwhatamidoing1122]

Yeah genres are great. I just have too look at where a book is placed at a book store, to know if it will be my taste. I dont see the problem

[@Alejandroigarabide]

Indeed. If 1 artist imitates another it's considered a ripoff, but if 20 artists do the same it's considered a genre. That's kind of a double standard. If I like one form of art (film, book, etc), why would I hate something that imitates it? This video is exactly what the internet needs in order to drown such hollow criticism.

[@Ramsey276one]

Fully agree with you two!

[@TuckyBlue]

My least favorite nitpick is small details that are considered “plot holes,” when in reality it’s just some character doing something that the person reviewing wouldn’t do.

[@sunkenobi1501]

That depends are they in character or are they aren't in character ?

[@Mayeur000Donz]

I remember seeing someone say that it's weak storytelling if the characters take longer to figure out the "obvious" twist that someone's a villain or whatever than the audience does. This opinion kinda ignores the fact that the audience knows they're watching a scripted piece where every development is supposed to matter, things are expected to have payoff, and there's normally a villain etc, whereas the characters believe they're in a world of random chance, like we are.

[@eaglefan2569]

That nitpick also shouldn't come until the media in question is fully concluded. Something early on may look like a plot hole but be done with the intended purpose of getting concluded later down the line, and therefore it isn't a plot hole. It should only really be considered a plot hole if the issue in question doesn't get addressed or concluded whatsoever in a finished piece of media.

[@piggylady225]

@@Mayeur000Donz Also, depending on what you’re reading/watching, the audience often also gets a lot more information than the characters do. If we see a scene with none of the protagonists present, or follow different ones at different times, the other characters are not getting that information. Even with something like, “this character and the villain have the exact same face shape,” you have to remember that as we got that epic closeup of the villain looking back before retreating, the hero was fifty feet down the street and was probably doing good to pick up on the mask colors. This doesn’t mean that there aren’t times where characters DO have all the information and just don’t put it together. Depending how in- or out-of-character that is, that could be jarring. But even then, is it one person or a collective group? If two characters saw two different scenes (assuming they even tell each other in the first place), important details may have been left out or misunderstood, preventing either one from seeing the big picture. You know, like trying to communicate in real life. But chances are the audience saw both, so they can come to that conclusion much easier.

[@poweroffriendship2.0]

Especially for horror movies when people are pretty pissed about the cliches, like how the main character could just killed the antagonist off after knocking him/her out instead of running away.

[@msfthe1st117]

Cliches aren’t bad, it’s about how you use them.

[@poweroffriendship2.0]

Cliches are nothing but a bunch of gears that forever be spinning around through repetitiveness.

[@jabby6709]

SAY IT LOUDER FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK!

[@Ramsey276one]

Tropes are Tools

[@Kaitou1412Fangirl]

@@Ramsey276one Yes. As a writer, it drives me nuts when I see critics, mostly would-be ones online, saying to avoid x tropes. Stories _need_ tropes like cooking needs food. We can spice stories up with a different mix or tropes or have a different take on it, but in the end, we still rely on them.

[@Ramsey276one]

@@Kaitou1412Fangirl Fully Agreed

[@akiza7028]

I hate when critics say that something has "wasted potential" because it's usually just a short hand for them saying that they're disappointed that the creators didn't do things exactly the way that the critic would have, which really says more about that critic than it does about a piece of media.

[@disconsolate3235]

exactly! Or that fans are disappointed because the obscure non plot related thing they wanted to see didn't show up and therefore the show or movie is bad.

[@bunnybean9052]

Of course, there are *definitely* examples out there of shows, movies, or even games with wasted potential, Balan Wonderworld being an excellent example, but when you use the 'wasted potential' critiques for *everything* (even when it doesn't apply), *that's* when it becomes an issue.

[@onijester56]

There's a yes-and-no. Take "WandaVision", where we all know that the person who played Pietro Maximoff in the X-Men movies makes a cameo as the MCU's Quicksilver. I don't know how to not spoil it, so SPOILERS BELOW. ... ... So, Pietro's not actually Pietro. He's actually a character, "Ralph Boehner", being magic'ed by Agatha. The heart of this cameo is literally a goddamn dick-joke which Wanda doesn't even get to be an audience to. And then the character is out of the series. Wanda doesn't become more confident from the (erroneous) belief that she actually can bring the dead back to life, Agatha doesn't use this as a jumping-off point to trick Wanda into being more-powerful or focusing her abilities. Hell, the revelation falls flat because...so SWORD is responding to the "Hex" covering Westfield. The Hex was discovered by the FBI having not gotten the regular check-in by "witness protection" client Ralph. As long as Westfield is in the hex, no one even remembers that Westfield exists...aside from the FBI agent assigned to get check-ins from Ralph, apparently. And when they are identifying the residents, NOT ONE PERSON recognizes that Wanda's brother was recast with someone who bears a strangely-uncanny resemblance to the "missing person" that brought SWORD to the Hex in the first place! Ralph was apparently so important to get the FBI to investigate and then kick the case to a top-secret government agency. But not important enough to be anything more than a lame-ass dick-joke.

[@disconsolate3235]

@@onijester56 WandaVision spoilers below the witness protection client as far as I know still hasn’t been confirmed as Ralph. Furthermore, the extent of Agatha’s use for Ralph was the Halloween episode where he tried to get her to tell him how she did it which ended in her flinging pietro across the place to help Vision instead which limits his use as he doesn’t have Wanda’s trust anymore. Wanda technically brought Vision back as well as completely create 2 beings on her own so I don’t get why it would be that surprising. She spends a lot of the episode trying to find out about him as well, asking him questions and just being genuinely confused as to how it was possible. As far as WandaVision goes, I completely agree that fans have a right to be mad about the Ralph reveal because we’ll, casting Evan Peters and having a movie called “multiverse of madness” with Elizabeth olsen’s involvement. However, I don’t believe that WandaVision can be called a “bad show” just because of that. Ultimately, that was only speculation and the existence of fake pietro was solely to try and get Wanda to expose her methods. If we’re looking at WandaVision as a show, thematically, that’s not important since the whole point of the show is exploring Wanda Maximoff as a character and her grief. Disappointment in things that didn’t happen is ultimately due to unmet personal expectations and that should not define whether a show is good or not. You can say you didn’t like it personally due to that reason but saying WandaVision as a whole is an objectively bad show due to the bohner joke discredits the main point that the show exists for (I’ve been rambling I hope this makes sense)

[@onijester56]

@@disconsolate3235 SPOILERS BELOW ---- You do get how him not being the person sought by Witness Protection is worse, right? That they dedicate a team to identifying every resident of Westfield and conveniently the only resident they can't identify is the cameo-character? As to Agatha's plan...You do realize that using Fake-Pietro for one single day is really short-sighted. Right? Least of all since Agatha never even fucking needed him to get that information! Meanwhile, look at the Wanda scenes up to the Fake-Pietro knocking on Wanda's door. 1. Agatha killed Sparky. 2. Agatha plays Sparky's death as an accident. 3. Billy and Tommy beg Wanda to bring Sparky back to life. 4. Wanda says that even with her powers, it's impossible. 5. Agatha joins the chanting to bring him back. Agnes knows she can do it, come on Wanda. Bring him back. Bring him back. 6. After that failure, they go back to the house. 7. Vision tells Wanda that he knows she's controlling everything. 8. Wanda denies being in control. 9. Fake-Pietro knocks on the door. 10. Wanda denies being able to have brought her brother back. 11. Vision does not believe her denial, takes the resurrection of Pietro as a sign that she is in full fucking control. In all of this, the build-up is to get Wanda to believe that she can do anything. Including bringing people back from the dead. Otherwise, Agatha wouldn't have killed Sparky, let alone try to goad Wanda into reviving the dead dog. Agatha also plays as "mentor" multiple times after the reveal. She teaches Wanda how runes work, and declares her purpose as being to punish witches that abuse magic. She even gives Wanda an "out" to keep her TV-perfect life...which while a "betrayal"/"I lied" event wasn't an outright lie. She was still going to cement Wanda's dream as reality, it was just going to be the flawed mess that Wanda had hastily cobbled together. You have a clear, obvious, intended Agatha who sides with Wanda in the fight against Heyward. You have an Agatha who would gladly manipulate an emotionally-unstable cosmic-level reality-warping witch if it meant helping her understand how to be a better person. And willing to step in to stop Wanda should she be corrupted by her own power. All of that is literally in front of the audience, that last half is even stated by the show itself. And yet the series ends with Agatha trying to kill Wanda because reasons (officially it's because Wanda is this nebulous Scarlet Witch entity...ok, so what the fuck does that mean? Does she eat planets? Does she do a strip-tease for Satan? Does she eat NY-style pizza with a knife and fork while dipping it into ranch dressing?) and Wanda in retaliation mind-controlling Agatha to be the same "nosy neighbor" she was introduced as. ----- Also, note I am not saying it was objectively bad. It was an entertaining character-study, serving as a respectable pastiche of popular sitcom series while also adding a lot of conceptual weight to future entries in the MCU. What I AM saying, though, is that it could EASILY have been better. That there are things someone on the writing team had to of realized needed to be fixed.

[@slightlyembittered]

When you mentioned the 'Liar revealed' trope my first thought was: Zuko: "You lied to me." Azula: "Like I've never done that before."

[@randomtangle4629]

“Outcast found Family” is just every D&D party ever, I love it.

[@MattEldritchHorror]

Its especially loveable when someone comes from a bad family and finds friends who are far more supportive than said family (personal experience talking here).

[@curegear9650]

"Everything is based off of something." -Someone I don't remember.

[@DL-idk]

That's kinda true. I've seen people already start to feel tired of the style of CGI and want for more hand drawn animations.. Trends change.

[@carlotta4th]

Animation won't revive in America again until Japan shows have taken over (...if they do) and Disney realizes they're missing out on all that sweet cash. Because in the current state Disney has no motivation to choose the most costly method that also takes more time. Sure *I* like it more, but it's a bigger risk for them financially than "safe" CGI films.

[@poweroffriendship2.0]

I actually do understand that 2D animation needs to comeback and I felt the same but blaming on 3D animation for being held responsible for why "animation is dead" is just a dumb argument. I've seen many ncomments on the trailer of _Earwig and the Witch,_ the first CGI Ghibli film, complaining why 3D animation should've been dead and bring back the 2D animation because the 3D animation looks like "KZbin kids animation" which it's just laughable . Not to mention that these fools also berated Goro Miyazaki, the son of Hayao Miyazaki, and called him a "brat" for something that isn't even his fault which Goro deserves better on how not to follow his footsteps and do his own path. The entire comment section is just painful to read because of how obnoxious these people are. (One of the comments also said to be hating on Pixar and Disney as well but that's just his opinion) Animation isn't even dead, it's just evolving for something greater. There are a lot of good animation out there, but it was overlooked by the bad ones.

[@AllyGatorAnimator]

@@carlotta4th One note I will add is that 2D and 3D films, at least of similar quality and complexity, aren't actually that different in cost or production time, it's more of a project by project thing (think about determining factors such as complexity or behind the scenes changes that slow everything down). They can take different lengths of time at different stages though e.g. you'll spend a lot of time properly rigging a 3D model, adding texture and rendering your shots, whereas 2D animation has more time taken on the actual animation as each frame has to be drawn by hand, though digital techniques can help with this now.

[@nathancarter8239]

As a fan of TV Tropes, this can also be a bane when you know the name of too many tropes and don't know how to dissect/critique stuff yet. Also, glad to see you're watching Invincible. As a fan of the comics I've been pleased with the adaptation so far.

[@purplepanther16]

I don’t know why but I always get surprised whenever I see an animaniacs clip, despite the ending of literally every video.

[@wrenbeck3370]

I hate when people say hat a film/game being more "realistic" is better.

[@genera1013]

The Lion King remake proves that more 'realistic' is not necessarily better. It really depends on the story and what you're trying to tell. Talking lions? Yeah, you want that animated.

[@wrenbeck3370]

@@genera1013 Exactly!

[@of_the_valley]

people who say that miss the point of fiction existing in the first place

[@poweroffriendship2.0]

_"Reality isn't always right. Stylization isn't always right. The trends of yesterday or today are certainly not always right. People can guide you or misguide you, but ultimately, you decide what is right."_ *~ Solar Sands (Reality Isn't Always Right)*

[@Nameless-ln5mr]

@@genera1013 When that reboot came out, my mother was obsessed with trying to see it. When I asked why, she said that she wanted to see how realistic the special effects could be. Luckily, I convinced my family to watch Toy Story 4 instead, since I was watching those movies for as long as I can remember, and it was only fair that I wrap up the story. Months later, during one Thursday night at my college, I saw the LK reboot, but only because I wanted to participate in the raffle that all movies shown at my college hold once the credits roll. That thing did not hold a candle to the original film that I saw in my middle school’s music class! The point: Realism isn’t a one way ticket to success. The only way to truly increase your chances at being successful is to actually put effort into making a good piece of media.

[@JosibiusZ]

Honestly, the fact that Arlo´s plot is straightforward with no last minute plot twist or evil businessman made it so refreshing to me. Who would have thought.

[@franny.22]

I've seen this discussion on TikTok for a while and I think we really need to teach kids media literacy more than we do cause the internet has bred a lot of shorthand criticisms in the place of really understanding why we like or dislike something. Plot-holes, originality, the deus-ex machina, etc. are all over-discussed in place of talking about what does or doesn't work in a story. And I get it, it's way easier to parrot criticisms we hear everywhere, but it's also important to individually engage with a movie, show, etc. beyond "it's not original" or "the protagonist is a Mary-Sue" arguments. It's certainly helpful to discuss things with others, hell it's just fun sometimes, but man I am tored of seeing someone throw around a criticism they clearly just borrowed from someone else online and the "not original" argument is the apex of that.

[@poweroffriendship2.0]

In my 12th Grade (the online class), our teacher had taught us about Media Literacy which we were discussed about the concept of communication, the evolution of traditional media to new media, and all that stuff. One of our lessons is called _"legal, ethical, and societal issues in media and information"._ This lesson taught us about being responsible as an Internet user and how to avoid all the issues, like starting a "flame war" which indicated one's failure to be a responsible user (hence why the Internet trolls and haters existed because they are irresponsible jerks who has no shame of hating something everyone like to the point where they could insulted others for having opinions). *Here's the advice:* "Expressing opinions requires as much good manners and politeness regarding other people's thoughts and feelings." Also, cyberbullying is considered to be the biggest problem on the Internet now, especially for the "cancel culture" (aka online shaming).

[@undergalaxy775]

This change of the direction of your channel to animated critics analyst is one that I very much enjoy

[@petros6013]

I always tried to make my own movie or book, but I was always discouraged because I thought that my ideas weren't original enough. I then realized that it doesn't matter if what I'm making is very similar to something else, as long as there is not only a noticeable difference, but also if I put a different spin on what it was that inspired me.

[@fermintenava5911]

4:01 That reminds me of the time someone on DeviantArt wanted to convince me that Zuko and Azula's subplot was ripped off from Game of Thrones-Stark-family.

[@CKprimeval07]

They do know Avatar came out before Game of Thrones right? Unless they are referring to the Song of Ice and Fire book series.

[@fermintenava5911]

@@CKprimeval07 I think they were referencing the books.

[@nbewarwe]

it's almost as if absolute monarchies tend to have power struggles and court intrigue between its family members.

[@monicaaboites5053]

Actually Azula has some coincidences with a lot of characters from different media. I always compare her to Rubi a Mexican soap opera about a beautiful young woman ambitious, who also have troubles with her mother, and like Azula, Rubí always believed that for her mother she was a “monster” and like Azula, Rubi was jelaous about the relationship that her old sister had with her mother.

[@Doublemonk0506]

@@monicaaboites5053, but the thing you realize and others don't is coincidence. Some people act like if something matches, the newer creator is obviously a hack that can't make original content when it could just be because they saw this trope of TVtropes and decided it was good

[@milesdodsworth7896]

It's so refreshing to hear that. My main example would be "The Hunger Games". An amazing story about corruption, poverty, government, power, race, wealth, violence, love, reality television and the obvious killing children. But many people won't give it a chance because it is just "the less popular Twilight" or "the American Battle Royale".

[@Merdicano]

Adding towards the fact that all folks in Hollywood were trying to have their own Hunger Games, although Maze Runner did seem to convey its own direction

[@roserose109]

what? I haven't watched The Hunger Games yet, but I had no idea that "The Hunger Games" was not liked?

[@eaglefan2569]

@@roserose109 Mostly because it got popular. For some reason there's a trend of hating something just because it gets popular without actually consuming the media and forming your own opinion of it. Like I used to hate Harry Potter just because a lot of people liked it, then finally gave it a try myself and also enjoyed it. In short people really shouldn't critique something without actually giving the content a try, so they have actual ground to stand on if they do want to criticize it further.

[@poweroffriendship2.0]

The "Edward vs. Jacob" trend in Twilight saga was pretty wild but that ruined Hunger Games.

[@bananahat3350]

@@eaglefan2569 I genuinely think that a part of the reason why so many people hate it is because its main audience is teenage girls. Like, a lot of the media which receives widespread hate has a primarily female audience (Twilight, One Direction, BTS, tumblr, pop music, Riverdale). All those things have flaws, but the reactions people have towards those examples are all more extreme than flawed media with a primarily male audience (Star Wars prequels, Ready Player One, online gaming).

[@charlielouise2428]

Lies/betrayal is revealed: Protagonist: I can explain everything Everyone: okay, explain, I'm willing to listen *long pause in which character has plenty of time to explain themselves and fix everything* Protaganist: ...I'm sorry, I didn't mean for this to happen (hangs head and cries) Me: SERIOUSLY?!

[@publickip]

oooo morning CellSpex, a welcome addition alongside my coffee

[@kodaberan2297]

It is 1:07 am where I am

[@BlocksoBlock]

It’s early

[@thelogicdefier4630]

It's 9:23 for me

[@devinpaul9026]

@@thelogicdefier4630 Now that just defies logic.

[@poglight4394]

It's 20 o'clock here in my country. So I guess this is a video that I watch before sleep :P

[@lazulidrawzalot]

Also, things being similar to other things isn’t inherently bad. Sometimes, comparison can even be a compliment. Hell, even one of the writers of Raya and the Last Dragon said that they don’t mind being compared to ATLA because it’s a great series.

[@troyjardine5850]

And yet Lindsay Ellis get's attacked for making the same observation that Screen Junkies and even the writters of Raya made

[@Jackylification]

@@troyjardine5850 I don't think Lindsay Ellis was even criticising it. Just pointing it out (like 100s of other did too).

[@generalzeta7000]

My prefer formula is slice of life fantasy where the fantasy is not hidden from the world. Stuff like MLP:FiM, Amphibia, and Hilda. Yet I can't seem to get into Owl House. Everyone loved Sole, but I could not get into it. I did love and relate to Onward a ton though.

[@Pin.k_Angel]

@Orion Jean Sorry I would have to disagree agree I think the owl house is not as good as Amphibia when it comes to the story. The main romance is rushed in my opinion. Also hate the fandom they can’t even take criticism. If someone says one thing about the show they’ll call them homophobic. If you really want to hear my full opinion on it you should watch cartoonish video he pretty much said everything I dislike about the series

[@maxmori8616]

@Orion Jean "insufferable fandom"?! Star wars much? Owl house just copied star wars.

[@maxmori8616]

@Orion Jean no, that was just a bad joke, I know everything has an insufferable Fandom.

[@generalzeta7000]

@Orion Jean With Amphibia I feel it a more lay back journey. I also want Amphibia and Owl House to cross over at some point. That would be fun.

[@generalzeta7000]

@Orion Jean I was thinking Edalyn needed some supplies, for a potion, that could only be gotten from from the island of Anphibia.

[@spooderman6312]

i swear if i hear another person say "nothing is original" im going to show them a slew of actually bad things so they can see what's what

[@annatheresaamorordonez-men9765]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/p4Kqda14m7ZsZpI

[@steelydan739]

Nothing is original

[@ZelphTheWebmancer]

Through the lenses of "original = entirely new thing" then yes, nothing is original. But through the lenses of "original = new take/twist" then no, there are plenty of original things out there. I think it's good to separate ideas from execution in this case tho. Ideas always come from somewhere else, the way we function the ideas will always be a misture or a twist on already existing things, however, on an artistic work ideas are only part of it, what really makes or breaks a work is (usually) the execution. Even if the idea was done before, it can be done better.

[@undercomposition]

Nothing is original. Except for me when I was in high school and college.

[@Scalesthelizardwizard]

Their not wrong everything has been done before nowadays it's how you use tropes is that makes you Original

[@CouncilofGeeks]

I feel like people tend to conflate “originality” with “surprising.” A story or character turn can be surprising to audiences without being truly original, it just needs to be properly structured within the narrative itself. I mean Vader being Luke’s father is surprising despite already being a freaking soap opera cliche by then. But it was well executed and applied in a genre that didn’t see that kind of turn as often. Still not original, but well handled. In general I feel like “originality” (when it is actually that) is one of those things that can be viewed positively when it’s present, but it’s absence shouldn’t be an automatic demerit. It’s like your water coming with a slice of lemon at a restaurant. Nice to see but you wouldn’t knock off a star on the rating if it wasn’t there.

[@landlighterfirestar5550]

Hello to the Council! I think this argument could definitely be presented for the Star Wars sequel trilogy. The Palpatine twist wasn’t “surprising” but it was narratively cohesive. One big bad for 9 films. The Last Jedi is “original” in its story, but doesn’t gel with the other two movies and at worst feels like a direct contradiction at times. But hey, everyone loves to hate everything about the sequel trilogy regardless of its execution , originality, cohesiveness or whatever, so that’s why I don’t bother talking about Star Wars on the internet, because I know someone will trudge in that’s a crazy Sequel hater that only wants to sh*t on everyone else

[@farlong4948]

I prefer NO lemon slice in my water, anyway.

[@jjcymbolic]

Honestly, all one's gotta say is, "Nothing is original, but it's how you tell it that matters." The end.

[@KikiCatMeow]

There are so many stories that it's nearly impossible to make something 100% original. The idea isn't the important part, it's the execution

[@fictionfan0]

Here's a thought: The reason something becomes a cliché is because, at one time, a lot of people liked it.

[@jacksquatt6082]

There's also the matter of corporations forcing something popular down everyone's throat to make money until we all get sick of it.

[@fictionfan0]

@@jacksquatt6082 Hey, I just stated how it starts, not how it ends.

[@TheDragonSlayerShow]

Every film/tv show has shared story similarities when you strip away settings, characters, etc... It really just matters at this point, how those familiar beats are done... Because they're rarely avoided but writers can easily play with those beats and add they're own little twist to 'em and that makes movies/tv shows enjoyable for me at this point... Well... That, cinematography, acting, and animation. A simple story can be amazing if done right.

[@miticaBEP07]

The presence of A Bug’s Life and Klaus side by side when talking about the Liar Revealed trope is spot on, because we go from a movie where the trope had thematic meaning and brought a genuine moment of tension, as well as completing Dot’s character arc, to one where it wasn’t needed and just made the story worse. Just to show that it’s not about the trope, but what you do with them. Also hi Thir13een Ghosts.

[@troyjardine5850]

I for once want so see a movie that subverts that trope. Like have one of the characters come to the liar's defence and thus convince everyone that even though it was a lie it was for the greater good.

[@alibrennan5977]

@@troyjardine5850 I think Disney Channels Zombies did that

[@ARCtheCartoonMaster]

Personally, I like the variation on the "liar revealed" in _The Mitchells vs. the Machines_ , where PAL reveals to the family that they've been complaining about each other behind their backs. I guess because, despite being relevant to the plot and themes, the movie doesn't dwell it on too long, and it plays out very organically and realistically, instead of that whole "I can explain/You don't have to!" BS we usually have to put up with in these movies.

[@Missingularity]

People who complain about originality are likely the same people who’ll trash new shows or movies that attempt to do original things

[@Obi-Wan_Kenobi]

100% agree. People act like being new is inherently good but that's not true. Just being different doesn't inherently elevate the quality of media. New things can be good or bad just like old things can be new or bad.

[@drereviews8868]

So happy I didn’t hear the whole “lion king ripped off Kimba” spill

[@GaiashKetoji]

I’m guessing you’ve seen the YMS video too.

[@thelordstarfish]

I feel like after the YMS video *meticulously* debunked just about every possible argument for that claim, that particular schpiel ought to be dead. I mean it won't be. But hopefully Adam did at least put enough of a dent in it that it will not be paraded around as just a thing that is obviously true (When it isn't. At all.) quite as much.

[@drereviews8868]

@@GaiashKetoji yessir I’m leading a debate about it for one of my classes next week

[@TSDTalks22]

@@thelordstarfish good, he obviously put a lot of work into that video

[@emilymonahan5232]

@@drereviews8868 tell us how it goes! good luck!

[@strangejoy4444]

I don't care if it's original or not. I however, care if there's passion towards making something good. Even when it comes to animation, movies or music

[@geardog24]

Arlo feels like a character you would see on Gumball.

[@poweroffriendship2.0]

I thought the same but the difference that he has the personality of the Cricket from Big City Green.

[@alexanderklepp]

This was a really well-put together video. I agree with you about the originality and comfort in the familiarity. I myself have felt the same about the trope “best friends to lovers.” I do like it but I feel sometimes it can be shoehorned in where it’s not needed. On top of that, I am really loving these "Cellspex explains film criticism" videos. They are pretty fun.

[@daniellebittner13]

Arlo animator here! Glad you liked the movie, even with the caveats. I agree, Wash the Hurt Away turned out great! I remember watching the animatic for that sequence and just sitting there my mouth open like “omg, who’s gonna get to do THOSE scenes?!” XD

[@juanstrong3695]

Great video. Sometimes, it's not about whether the idea is original; it's about how it's executed.

[@catlawyerwilldefendfortrea6038]

Cinema Sins didn't start this crap but definitely inspired an insane amount of it

[@Scalesthelizardwizard]

it's why I can't stand Cinema Sins

[@troyjardine5850]

We can also add in people like Mauler who makes longwinded but vapid gripes

[@landlighterfirestar5550]

@@Scalesthelizardwizard and also they’re literally just food for the internet trolls and the overly toxic fan bases of certain franchises

[@lancethefilmguy9392]

@PhantomKitten Not a fan of Critical Thinker?

[@rayesafan9628]

I actually love Cinemasins, but because my mom talked about movies like Cinemasins. But honestly, I think people misunderstood cinema sins. Usually, they’re not really critiquing movies. They’re just playing with them. But unfortunately, people started taking them seriously. Thinking that a movie is bad because they didn’t do one thing or another. Cinemasins is just playful roasting, hitting at low hanging fruit. People who think that it’s actual critiquing has issues. You know it’s all for yucks when they do stuff like removing 10 sins for “Noah inventing drinking.”

[@Kahtisemo]

My favorite "nothing is original complaint" are the people who try to argue how much fantasy stuff takes from Tolkien but even Tolkien took a lot of his inspiration from mythology and looking at classics (like Shakespeare) and taking some of lines more literally instead of metaphorically.

[@NobodyC13]

Like how Tolkein was incredibly disappointed that the prophesied "Forests of Dunsinane will attack the Castle" in Macbeth was just an army using the forests' branches as cover. So he was determined in his stories that when "the Forest will attack," he means "the Forest WILL attack!"

[@infrestitucho8721]

i think the problem its rather that the tolkien stuff gets way too overused by various fantasy works. such as dwarves,elves and orcs for example.

[@CyberSoulgem]

I think my biggest issue with most forms of media critism is this obsession with objectivism, this idea that you can "logically" and "quantifiably" decide the value of something rather then simply accepting the reality that what you like and dislike is your taste, which is subjective, and is FINE, so many use the word objective as a sort of shield to make their opinions seem more substantial when at the end of the day, they're still just opinions (sorry for the rant good vid as always)

[@a1t3rmusic]

this! if there has been anything that has annoyed me more it's definitely been this. maybe people might start to learn that subjectivity is perfectly fine

[@disconsolate3235]

I do think a piece of medium can be judged objectively but people too often label their explanations or opinion as objective even though it really isn't. Objectively, The Godfather is the best or one of the best movies ever made due to cinematography, plot, etc. Objectively, the lord of the rings is better than star wars because it's plot and characters are more cohesive etc. However, it is completely fine to enjoy star wars and like it more that lotr. The distinguishment between fact and opinion needs to be made clear. I watch a lot of video essays and I always appreciate when the narrator points out any bias they may have or state when they're just being nitpicky because ultimately, enjoyment is up to personal preference

[@CyberSoulgem]

@Ash Z but that the standards *you* use to describe something as "objectively good" are inherently subjective, these are *your* own personal metrics on what makes a quality film, a well-substantiated opinion, is still an opinion (this isn't intended to be hostile just further clarification on how/why I feel objectivism in media criticism is flawed)

[@disconsolate3235]

@@CyberSoulgem yep yep I got you, thanks for being respectful! I think it’s really interesting to think about because humans are opinionated in every thing we do so in that regard, can anything be objective? When I think about objective critique of media, I think of the quality of film itself (cinematography, the tonality, the mood, the pacing). I’m not sure myself but I do think that this can be judged objectively? Like by film definition, how good is the pacing and how well does the story flow. Considering the technical aspects of the film you could say.

[@a1t3rmusic]

@@disconsolate3235 what's interesting to me is even if objectivity did exist it wouldn't really be a good thing. we'd know exactly what the perfect film is and there would be no reason to try and make something that isn't just that. films would just be the same since i don't see how one would not want to make an objectively good film. i think objectivity for as useful as it appears, wouldn't really be useful at all. what is there to critique about something that is objectively good/bad? objectivity implies the quality of something isn't really something to debate on. it's a fact. subjectivity on the other hand offers a much more interesting way to look at films that isn't just "thing bad, thing good" also objectivity (actual objectivity) isn't the same as universal standards or largely held conventions something seeming/appearing less subjective doesn't make it objective. it just makes it less subjective (or at least it appears that way). but i think most people use the word objective in reference to the "object" (the thing being critique) vs subjective in reference to the "subject" (the person critiquing the thing). so when people talk about objectively critiquing things, they're mostly talking about critiquing a film/piece of art soley on what it is and less on how one feels about it. but even this requires interpertations to be made on what one thinks what they're critiquing is. and those interpretations are subjective. maybe not as obviously subjective as "i feel x towards this thing" but still very subjective. okay my comment is way too long and most likely unnecessary so imma just😗✌🏾

[@cintronproductions9430]

Arlo the alligator boy!!!! 😄🐊 That movie was bizarre but super cute! Thanks for talking about it.

[@zoelindwall637]

Arlo the alligator reminds me of the princess and the frog animation wise

[@moonbased7796]

@@zoelindwall637 Yeah I kinda thought that as well but the Princess and the Frog in my own opinion did a better job with their swamp backgrounds than Arlo but that’s my own preference. But both movies are good in their own right!

[@Merdicano]

Still planning on watching it. Really looking forward to see more animated projects from Netflix

[@averybadidea1469]

I hate it so much when people say stuff like "HOW could you like __________?! It's so __________." like. can't I just enjoy something? why does it have to be complex or "original" or for goodness sake GOOD. it's ok for a movie or show or animation to just be fun. it doesn't need a complex plot or complex characters to be enjoyable. it doesn't need to be original for you to like it. I saw someone post once that it's important to know things like "I never said it was good, I said I liked it" and "I never said it was bad, I just didn't like it" and it's important to take that to heart.

[@thespyrobrother4367]

More unique/fair criticism is something I've been trying to work on for my own thoughts, especially after seeing people respond to Raya in the way they have whereas I absolutely loved it, especially compared to Disney's other films from the past few years. Making time to truly decide why I dislike a film or even a studio's films besides their "originality or lack thereof" is something I think a lot of people need to step back and realize like you had mentioned.

[@poombly4352]

"It's bad because (company/studio) made it."

[@LarryDevaun]

I loved Arlo the alligator boy I wish there was more of his friends character relationship development. Even my little brother felt most of the songs were hammering in the same message of home is where the heart is too much.

[@abthedragon4921]

Video essays like this are part of the reason I love this channel!

[@ribottostudio]

Every movie has cliches. No movie is wholly original. But its how that movie HANDLES tropes and cliches that matters. You could have something like How to Train Your Dragon where even though its FILLED with tropes I HATE its a fantastic film. Or something like Raya and the Last Dragon. Where the elements are THERE but not refined enough to feel wholly original.

[@stalloneandrew9961]

yeah and how about rango, a movir filled with troperiffic wild western theme and all of the characters were easily noticable because they own different appearance

[@SIMBA-tq2ch]

Atlantis and treasure planet are still better than raya

[@itsyourboileancuisine5971]

That scene in invincible was something else. I haven’t read the graphic novel so I didn’t know what to expect but damn

[@andrewkful]

.... five minutes into this video and I am slowly realizing this is not a review of Arlo The Alligator Boy. The thumbnail once again tricked me.

[@Soguwe]

I never got the whole "this is a ripoff of ATLA, therefore it's bad" You mean, it's comparable enough to the greatest show ever made to warrant claims of ripoff? Where can I find that show, it sounds amazing just by proxy

[@privatehere3324]

The only show i feel that way about is the drangon prince because i dont think its does anything new with the concept but i dont have a problem with stuff being inspired by avatar

[@ИльяАнтонов-с5б]

For most infuriating nitpick is "it's for kids/kids show".

[@KracklinDark]

Thank you for existing! I haven't watched the video yet but I just wanted to say that I look forward to your uploads.

[@NATHAN-gl9ns]

"no man who bothers about originality will ever be original: whereas if you simply try to tell the truth (without caring twopence how often it has been told before) you will, nine times out of ten, become original without ever having noticed it.'-C.S. Lewis, which makes sense seeing as Aslan was literally just Jesus

[@lancethefilmguy9392]

👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏

[@NobodyC13]

And the White Witch borrows elements of the Snow Queen. The Dawn Treader from the Odyssey with a little Norse mythology in the mix (Eustice's subplot as a dragon is an shoutout to Fafnir). The Magician's Nephew with a bit of Sorcerer's Apprentice combined with the Book of Genesis.

[@NATHAN-gl9ns]

@@NobodyC13 exactly! And it's one of the best book series of all time!

[@igiem368]

I love these videos. They are enlightening, well thought out, and help people like me understand the beauty and comfort in the abstract familiar. Well done yet again.

[@BabyCharmander]

This video has some great timing--the new Luca trailer just came out and I was seeing people complain that it had "calarts style."

[@ARCtheCartoonMaster]

Honestly, I don't mind that Pixar is branching out into other art styles, especially when they've been criticised for not really changing up their game in over a decade, and especially with Sony hitting it out of the park with their new _Mitchells_ movie and its unique art style.

[@blueandtrue3027]

“with better harry draco” i love you sm

[@cjthefox]

My least favorite hack logic: "You don't agree with me about something?! You're a BAD PERSON!!!"

[@Drace90]

I think Lindsey Ellis nailed it when she said: "What is this CinemaSins brain poisoning?" She realized legitimate similarities between Raya and Avatar (beyond "asian") and if we should maybe start considering it a genre and got heavily cyber-bullied just because Twitter idiots assumed that's criticism and also racist somehow. Can people just... chill out? One thing being like another thing doesn't equal bad!

[@alibrennan5977]

She even made an hour long video ranting about it

[@Drace90]

@@alibrennan5977 I know. That's where the quote is from. It was eye-opening. More people need to speak out.

[@theflickchick9850]

That quote lives in my head rent free.

[@NobodyC13]

I have some issues with Lindsay Ellis, but her situation gives great motive that maybe we as a society should discredit or invalidate Twitter (and Tumblr) as sources of media criticism and social politics.

[@dumdumm3299]

yesss i was looking for this. i hate that people are taking Lindsay Ellis' extremely bland take, "Raya and ATLA are very similar in many ways," and like twisted it into the following insane reaches: (1) Lindsay Ellis hates Raya and anything else that shares similarities to a thing she likes, (2) Lindsay Ellis is single-handedly destroying media criticism by hating things that are similar to things she likes, and (3) Lindsay Ellis is racist for criticizing Raya. just like she outlined in her video, Twitter is made for making TWEETS. a single Tweet is not representative of someone's entire view on a single piece of media, a method of deconstructing and analyzing media, or an accurate summary of someone's entire career and personal character. it really bugs me that people went after her so hard, as if Ellis' *single Tweet* was tantamount to the kind of criticism she might give in one of her ~1 hour long video essays.

[@DenderFriend]

The Raya in the thumbnail immediately made me think of a very specific content creator who got into hot water recently.

[@fermintenava5911]

She didn't even meant it that viciously. She just pointed out that some plot points were becoming common. Besides, that's... a very difficult topic.

[@DenderFriend]

@@fermintenava5911 I'm not sure if we're thinking about the same thing here. I was just talking about Lindsay Ellis who recently got into controversy for making a Tweet regarding Avatar and Raya.

[@ajerqureshi6411]

@@DenderFriend I understood what you were talking about. My understanding of the controversy is that when she made the tweet, a lot of people started accusing her of being racially insensitive since Raya is meant to be more based on actual Southeast Asian culture compared to ATLA which was just Asian inspired.

[@fermintenava5911]

@@DenderFriend I was talking about that, too.

[@DenderFriend]

@@ajerqureshi6411 Ah, gotcha.

[@analyzgolden7774]

THANK YOU. As a writer, I have gotten this complaint from so many people just because of certain character roles and plot beats being similar. Ignoring that their actual personalities, character arcs, world building, and twists are not like the thing they describe I am 'copying'. 'Oh, this one line of dialogue,' or 'This one scene is just like this other thing! Why are you such a hack!' It got to a point where my parents told one of the teachers in a meeting that I 'write ripoffs with no shame'. Then two or three years ago, I found a teacher in college that saw my work, and debunked all of that. They told me this very stuff in this video, and that I was not a hack, but instead had potential to be a talented fictional writer. Some of my most popular works, sadly enough, are fanfics that get praised heavily. And it's a concept EVERYONE in these fandoms have heard before. It is a criticism that has haunted me for years and put a strain on my self esteem when writing. You can't copyright ideas. Ideas are always gonna be yours, and no one can take that away.

[@elji-w3k]

Easily the nitpick that annoys me the most is “realism”. People who defend say that there needs to be some sort of logical ground for stories and characters to stand on, or else you don’t get engaged in said story because anything can technically happen and there’s no real tension as a result. That line of logic sounds perfectly fine on paper, but in practice, a lot of times this argument is made, it’s in places where it doesn’t actually improve story, themes or characters, but mostly for the self-serving condescension of the people who say it. It’s almost funny, because the people who use the “realism” argument, often do so on pieces of media whose stories involve breaking every physics book 24/7 in then, but when characters have a sudden change in mood and attitude, or when someone lands from a moderately high height without shattering their ankles, you can almost hear them making the Cinema Sins *ding* sound effect, by which I mean said person doing the “criticism” is only willing to do so for the things that they personally dislike. And that’s why complaining about realism is dumb and stupid, and stupid and dumb for a good 90% of the time.

[@RogueMelody003]

This is a refreshingly logical, calmly spoken, and fully explained take on the subject. This is great! I personally agree with you, and this video has some way better methods of explaining why than I had. Thanks for this awesome vid!

[@drewbear1969]

I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on one of my pet peeves, the use of the word "underrated" and similar sentiments. When I see it, my impression is less that the person believes something deserves more attention, and more that they think the media should be saturated by the thing the person likes and that everyone else should like the thing too. And I also wonder at what point the thing would no longer be labeled as "underrated."

[@low-keydrama1260]

It’s fine if things are similar or have somewhat similar tropes. As long as it’s does it’s best and try to make it its own thing. It also just depends on how it’s written and if the source is engaging enough.

[@philosophicalphil6611]

I don’t hate the liar revealed plot because it’s been done before, I hate because of how it’s being in the context of the story.

[@eaglefan2569]

Liar revealed relies heavily on execution. What's the lie? Why did the character lie? Where does the lie land morally? Was it a big lie or a set of small lies? Was the lie done for a good reason? Does the character stand by the lie any longer? A lot of really good ones I've seen tend to be a really convoluted situation that gets revealed. Like lying about who they are, but having a really good reason for doing so. Or sheltering someone from a bad truth by not sharing it, to protect them from that bad truth. Unfortunately the execution of such a thing heavily relies on how much time is dedicated to fleshing out the lie, and how the lie afflicts others, and that makes executing it complicated or hard to do when you've got a limited time table.

[@maggieallen5985]

I’ve also seen people assume that when someone said “this story reminded me of something else,” that that was automatically a criticism or knock against it. But I don’t think it is. Everything has influences and inspirations, and most storytellers are aware of that.

[@ARCtheCartoonMaster]

Ever since I started collecting records, I've started to notice that a lot of tunes sound like other tunes, and I keep having to tell myself that's either a coincidence or just mere inspiration, depending on how well known the older piece is.

[@giraffe6856]

As a person who learns animation, it really upsets me whenver people say some characters are so stereotypical or falls into trope, when in reality, without those stereotypes and tropes, people wouldn't understand the character clearly and they would bash that for another reason: hard to understand or doesn't make any sense. Like, if I really try to make something that truely resinates with my story, people wouldn't understand, the hardest part of animation or any film is to make random people UNDERSTAND MY STORY. And to do that, we have to use those tropes or some stereotypical images.

[@10thDoctorWhoovez]

You published at night! Edit: I'm a Filipino and Arnis was the only Filipino thing in the movie.

[@stalloneandrew9961]

I'm from malaysia and it's 10:08 pm at here

[@jeromealday614]

I didn't like the fact that they just mushed different SEA cultures together and call it a day. Mexico got one. Columbia will have one. China got one. Italy got one. Heck even Harlem, a small part of New York , got one. 😐

[@10thDoctorWhoovez]

@@jeromealday614 what do you mean Colombia will have one?

[@MysteryDisc]

@@10thDoctorWhoovez there's a Disney movie called Encanto coming out set in Colombia

[@MysteryDisc]

@@jeromealday614 Yeah to me that's what's been really surreal about talks regarding representation in this movie. I looked at a list of all the countries supposedly used for inspiration in this movie...and they didn't even visit all of them(?). And even then you have something massive like Indonesia used and it has over a thousand ethnic groups which seems like it would have been more than enough for the different themed lands.

[@BlocksoBlock]

Smiles to you cellspex!

[@Benception]

In looking at some of my favourite films, I realised that a lot of them are very standard stories. Sing Street is a standard, feel-good, 'boy grows up with a bad life so makes it better for himself' story. Yet, I love it! In a lesser movie, I would've called this story cliché and "I've seen it before". I think the quality of the film-making, the passion of the director and the personal details he embues his characters with, really makes it great. You can tell when a story is, as people call it, "unoriginal" when the story beats are thin and told with not much passion. Also, great video as always!

[@basicallyseth6024]

"Infinity Train has characters thrown into hazardous situations intended to help them grow as people? Huh . . . Saw much?"

[@ARCtheCartoonMaster]

Thank you for making this video, Cell! This is relevant to me as an up-and-coming writer, not only because I notice similarities to other works in my works, but also with every new masterpiece that comes along and really moves and inspires me, such as _Inside Out_ , _Hilda_ , and most recently _The Mitchells vs. the Machines_ , I worry that my own stories will just seem old hat by comparison. Like, with Katie's wacky design, for example (she is such a bae!), I'm worried that my own nerdy redhaired girl character will be criticised for looking too Disney Princess-esque, or for obsessing over boys when Katie broke ground for LGBT representation, or that the dad might be too similar to Katie's dad, etc. - I just don't know what to do about it. And speaking of designs, that too is another big concern of mine. I worry that my characters look too similar to others, such as my main character looking like a mix of Hilda, Riley and Kenny's mom; or that her best friend looks like the girl from _Bedknobs and Broomsticks_ ; her mum vaguely resembling Anita from _101 Dalmatians_ ; and some goth girl who looks like a mix of Daria, Marceline and a young Eda (with attire reminiscent of a goth Miss Price). Then again, I also pointed out on Twitter that the aforementioned Katie Mitchell somewhat resembles Mad Margaret, from the 1967 animated adaptation of _Ruddigore_ , the Gilbert & Sullivan opera. And plus, Margaret has big, bouncy hair, reminiscent of Princess Merida from _Brave_ (albeit straight and messy like that of Katie). And even in my review of _The Buzz on Maggie_ , I mentioned the main character's hairdo looks like that of Shadow the Hedgehog, and I even lampshaded the absurdity of the "ripoff" claim by adding, "It could just be a coincidence, dumba**". So yeah... nothing is 100% original. I just want to know: where do you draw the line? When is similar too similar, and susceptible to accusations of plagiarism you can't defend yourself from, even if they're false? Mi vere volas scii. Also, in case you guys are wondering, here's my ArtStation so you can judge my character designs for yourselves, and judge if I'm going too hard on myself and need to get back on the Lovan: www.artstation.com/sambateman

[@boltingspace8]

It annoys me the most that when a remake of a Film or Series is made, the majority immediately say that the original is better ( for example, I think the ducktales and she ra remake are better than the old Version )

[@foxlover6770]

I remember seeing people say that the OG She Ra had better designs then the new one and just.....wha? The new She Ra’s designs are really unique and give you a good idea of the character while OG She Ra’s designs are just copy paste Barbie dolls

[@GaryCandyPrince]

It annoys you that people have different opinions than you? yeah okay

[@boltingspace8]

@@GaryCandyPrince I didnt mean that i mean that it bothers me when people dont give a remake the same chances as a normal Film or series because the expect what they already know

[@lancethefilmguy9392]

Is it wrong for someone to not like new stuff?

[@GaryCandyPrince]

@@boltingspace8 uhm no?? It could also be because maybe the original show had characters they knew but the new show has changes in it, if it makes sense. take spongebob for an example, and also teen titans. they made a teen titans reboot called teen titans go, and that is just an embarrassment to the original. and also spongebob, the show has a different style now and it just is so hard to watch.. I'm just saying, most reboots of shows suck, like allot. If you don't think that then that's kinda dumb. not all reboots are good.

[@MysticMindAnalysis]

I absolutely dispise the "It's just a cartoon" or "It's just fiction, not reality!" hack complaint, whenever people try and criticise a work for being harmful. Noralities made amazing points about this subject in their recent video on Cancel Culture*, so I'll keep it short: Fiction reflects the real world ideas the creator wants to express. So even if it's not 1:1 reality, a work of fiction can still effect how we think about the world based on cultural norms. All movie has some subtext, even if it's basic. It's why we often see fully dressed anthro animals in movies, because clothing is often coding for "civilised" and "more human like", even if they don't have parts they need to cover up. It also helps with visual character expression. So the notion that all fiction is divorced from reality and has no effect is flat out wrong.

[@fabianshedenhelm2986]

True I'm working on my own series. It reflects on both mental health, how society reacts to different people in general as well as homophobia including internalized and lgbtq+ and discriminatory themes.

[@aceofspades4930]

I love stories about found families and outsiders no matter how much it’s used

[@leventemucsi9547]

"With better Harry-Draco" *P r e a c h*

[@AkjobAlgvak]

I wonder if Cellspex shipped those two.

[@xaviergonzalez44]

The Harry Potter fanbase has imploded and I wish I never knew

[@xaviergonzalez44]

@Booker Skye The Owl House

[@xaviergonzalez44]

@Booker Skye You're welcome

[@NobodyC13]

I'm a Potterhead, and I don't get "Drarry" at all. One of the few merits of "Cursed Child," however, is that I definitely ship their sons, Albus and Scorpius. Those two actually have chemistry (I also wouldn't have mind Scorpius' interest in Rose Weasley if they didn't rewrite her character to be awful).

[@remnants9974]

Well, tropes and cliches aren't necessarily the same thing. You can't avoid tropes, but you can avoid making them feel too cliche. But yes, some people are so quick to dismiss something just because it has X trope that they end up missing all the nuance or point of the story.

[@sunkenobi1501]

Yeah but some shows cartoons and movies are just better than others and some people just like the old stuff.

[@ezzymo1]

I love how she uses a Holderness family joke to mock this

[@mozambiquemorbid2441]

the “cal-arts bad” argument really underscored the importance of silhouette in character design for me. because those characters did share a face-shape, sort of, but the visuals that stemmed off those faces were all so varied and amazing. i don’t understand why the animation fandom has to be so obnoxious when most of them don’t know the first thing about what they’re talking about

[@mozambiquemorbid2441]

@@unicornlover1237 it is unfortunate. i think someone on here already said, but most of the people who make these claims about animation are teenagers who are just starting to interact with the media they consume. so of course their takes are not going to always be the best and we shouldn’t discourage them, but still. it does get to be very grating.

[@mimsilvernote]

It also sucks that many people don’t seem to understand that budgets, time and the higher ups have the most control over animators and what they can or can’t do and that animators aren’t really at fault for doing their job under those conditions. Am I saying that you shouldn’t criticize animation because of this? No, I’m just saying that criticism should be aimed at the higher ups who make the decisions and limitations

[@sunkenobi1501]

@@mimsilvernote Why can't they just leave ?

[@jabby6709]

speaking of this, i've seen multiple people claim the She-Ra reboot uses the "Cat-Arts" style, which just isn't correct?? at all??? when people speak of "Cal-Arts" styles, it's usually the cartoon-y bean shaped face that's used in shows like Steven Universe, Gravity Falls, Gumball, etc. She-Ra's style is less cartoon-y and more similar to art styles of shows like ATLA or Voltron. it shows how these critics really have no idea what they're even talking about

[@mimsilvernote]

@@sunkenobi1501 many are under contracts to work with a certain company for a certain amount of time, also because that’s what they’re getting paid to do. Most people tend to tolerate more bullshit when they get money for it

[@SurrealKeenan]

good point. But please don't forget that a fair amount of the time people are complaining about unoriginality, it's in reaction to other people going on about how unique and original something is.

[@MatthewCobalt]

Criticism on the merits of Originality is equivalent of you hating someone else's kids from wanting to be like a famous person in history. Emulating something solely on the merits of fame is terrible and should be frowned upon, but when a proper inspiration brings an evolution to something, it should be cherished as a point of appreciation.

[@LucenProject]

4:02 "Protagonist!" 🤣🤣

[@Breadcutter]

I love new spins on things, often because it takes something I love and makes it better or lets me see it in a new way. Into the spider verse it just hits the mark on spider-man something I and most comic and movie fan of marvel already know. You know responsibility and yada yada. But it is animated and has such energy and a new take on exactly that qoute. With so much set-up and so many satisfiyng yet predictibale and standard tropes that are executed almost perfectly. MAny tropes are tropes because they work. Sometimes just to well. The Villain family member stuff is a perfect example but Hades the game, that heavily relys on this trope, subverses it in a clever way and I loved it.

[@sunkenobi1501]

It's simple when you have a plan and competent people at helm the sky's the limit.

[@Breadcutter]

@@sunkenobi1501 Well I would say its far more complicated with production budget and the planning phase si far from simple. Thats exactly why Spider Verse or Soul are such works of wonder. No they are not magic but still very complicated so I admire your positivity and naivety but yeh THE SKYS THE LIMIT

[@quartzite16]

Cellspex,I Actually Adore Arlo:The Alligator Boy Because That The Animation,Characters,And The Songs Are Just Pure And I Even Adore Arlo.

[@CM-db5cg]

I always felt that while it's not explicitly stated and probably not even intended by the person making the comment, the implication of something being 'not original' is that it took elements from something else but used them in a less effective/subtle/interesting way. That's why people notice the similarity in the first place, because they're not feeling engaged, it's a shorthand way of explaining this. Sure it'd be nice if people could properly express this and maybe think on it some more to elaborate. But not every bodies complaints about a movie/film/show/book/whatever have to be a video essay. Honestly, I think we're at a point now where people are being forced to overexplain themselves and if they don't everyone takes the worst possible interpretation of what they say. Sure, it's fine for critics to explain in depth as to why they didn't like something because they have the critical mental toolset to do that and the time to spend pondering it. Most people arn't video essayists or journalists writing about their expert field. It's incredibly self-righteous to demand they act like they are. Now, I know Cell is spesfically talking about critics here, although it's only mentioned that once in the video, but most people that use the arguments Cell put forth (and that's a lot of people) arn't all talking to people who talk about entertainment for a living.

[@Kona_Brewed]

The reason I never watched Raya and the last dragon: *I'm extremely petty and I'm being a little pissbaby over Sisu's design change*