Archery | Measuring Actual Draw Weight

A few inches makes a huge difference. It's worth the weight. We look at why knowing your draw weight is important, measuring it using a bow scale, and calculating draw weight using estimation and formulas.
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[@charlesdenman9052]

Clear useful information, practical and actionable. Thanks. No ego - good. No background tunes - also good.

[@batducktw]

I have an ILF bow similar to your W&W. I have recently learned that because my riser is 21" there is another calc to do because the draw weights on the limbs are calculated for the 28" for a riser that is 25". Learning something new everyday.

[@randallalexander7321]

Great video! In Canada, the minimum draw weight for hunting is 40# @28" - if you are under 28" be sure you get a bow a few lbs over 40.

[@Xarkom89]

Randall Alexander I'm considering getting into Archery for target shooting. Good lord is it hard to find a place to buy bows (I'm in Toronto).

[@rodolfosjeronimo9274]

Well, there is Gary Chynne www.basicallybowsarchery.com/Contact.html kzbin.info/www/bejne/gnWcfZ9tecR6l9U

[@yahirtheo4976]

i guess I'm kinda off topic but does anyone know a good place to stream newly released movies online?

[@deandrekylo1625]

@Yahir Theo Flixportal :P

[@yahirtheo4976]

@Deandre Kylo thank you, I signed up and it seems to work =) Appreciate it !

[@martinromer6997]

If you want your measurements to be accurate, you need to pull the arrow through the clicker - that way you are measuring the draw weight at your exact draw length.

[@NUSensei]

True. I actually forgot about that (since the first bow didn't have a clicker).

[@martinromer6997]

+NUSensei Also, I'd recommend using a digital bowscale, mechanical ones aren't very accurate, and the spring inside is actually temperature sensitive, giving you more draw weight when it's cold outside and less when it's hot ;)

[@mudkip_btw]

+Martin Römer that's how a bow works too :) but yeah it's better using digital

[@John-sz7vf]

You can buy a draw length indicator then no bow you check needs a clicker

[@borumfishing]

I knooow thos is an old vid, but wow the information is still super relevant. Just the fact that a small increase in draw lenght and not having a consistent anchor point change so much is really something to remember. Especially for me as a new target shooter. 😁

[@kinzokushirogane1594]

Instead of a bowscale you can use a bag/luggage scale which are really cheap and work up to 50kg or more. They usually have a strap that you can easily fasten right around the string where you usually have your fingers

[@kickpublishing]

Actual draw weight is higher than shown by a bow scale because they draw from a single point on the string where they connect. Drawing with 3 fingers effectively shortens the string since the area covered by the fingers remains flat during the draw. This might not seem like much but you’re taking a couple of inches off the string length and thus the limbs must bend even more to reach your anchor point. Slip a piece of rigid plastic pipe the width of your 3 fingers over the string and measure again. It’s a good 15% more draw weight.

[@CamelCasee]

Facts.

[@perpirak00]

Yes, the last point you made about the arrow spines make the most sense about learning the actual draw weight. Good one!

[@danboron1]

Update needed... Today in 2021, you can buy special digital bow scales, which can show the peak weight, and the final hold weight, and that is relevant for all compound bows... You simply make your normal draw, but so the string ends the normal place for you, as Mr. NUSensei explains, and then "move your draw back to zero draw", and the scale will remember those two values, and show them several seconds... On the "Olympic Recurve bows", the calculation Mr. NUSensei shows, of the "added pound per added inch of draw", might be a good "rule of thumb", but surely not, for traditional Asian Recurves, (often called Horse Bows), nor for traditional Longbows, or Flat Bows... If we measure the poundage, at each inch above 20, and plot that into a diagram, we see, how that curve changes its "rise value", and when we come close to the "stacking point", (where the draw suddenly feels MUCH harder, perhaps at 32", on some Asian bows, and about 37 on some Manchu/Mongolaian Bows, and about 30 on many Longbows), then, from the inch before that, it might add more than 5 pounds, and the inch before that, it might add 4 punds, and only below that drawlength, the curve will show an almost straight line, with the same poundage change, between the inches, down to a 20 inch draw... IF a bow has a max draw length of 35 inches, and you only use about 28 inch draw, the curve, will show, almost the same change, from 27 to 28, as from 28 to 29... But if 30 inch makes the bow "stack", then the difference between 27 and 28, and that between 28 and 29, will be different, and from 29 to 30, it will increase much more... That "sudden larger increase" signals: The bow can hardly bend any more, and if you continue, it will break... Please to not try that!!! About SPINE values... There are two ways to give the spine... One is, measuring how many thousands of an inch, the arrow will sink, when resting on two pegs, and have a certain weight hanging on the middle... That gives numbers like 400 or 600, of which the 400 "sink less" so it is the strongest and most stiff arrow... The second way, is to divide the length between the pegs, with the distance it sinks... That gives numbers like 30, or 40 or 80, and those values are often called "pound-measure"... But that number shows the RELATION between the sinking, and the distance between the pegs, and that has NOTHING to do with the pounds, on a bow... However, "some times a 40 spine, fits to a bow which pulls 40 pounds"... The AMO measurement, is done for wodden arrows, with a distance of 26 inches between the pegs, and a two pound weight... While Carbon arrows, are meaused with a shorter distance, between the pegs, and also a smaller weight... Still the value can be given in "thousands of an inch" OR as the RELATION between the sinking and the distance between the pegs... Therefore the spine values on carbon arrows, does not totally, "fit" with the spine values of wooden arrows... When shooting with the Thumb-draw, and using Cathra, (cast-shot), the spine practically does not matter, so you want "the stiffest spine, but with the arrow weight, which fits your needs, and also fits to that bow... The longer Manchu Bows, require heavier arrows, like 15 grain per pound, or even more, or else, you feel a hard "hand-chock", and the bow "feels like it was a dry-shot", which is truly bad, for the bow... While most other Asian bows, can use down to 10 grain per pound of draw weight, or even lower... Ask the bow maker! I find the vids from NUSensei, very good and educational, but this vid, is partly misleading, about the change of poundage, "between the inches", and about the choice of spine weight... Some who shoot Longbows, advise, "use a spine 45 for a 30 pound bow"... Simply adding 10 or 15, to the bows poundage... But that might not fit to YOU... Some Bow Shops offer, that you can come with your bow, and try different spines, on a shooting lane, and that which makes you HIT BEST, is the right choice for you... Another solution, is to buy ONE of each spine, like 35 and 40 and 45 and 50, and try them at home, before you buy a set of 6 or 12... As NUSensei sais: You can not simply CALCULATE, what is best for you, and your bow... Best regards to all Dan

[@paulconnor8519]

Excellent vid, super clear info and very very important I have struggled with understanding this concept as a new archer, many thanks

[@KrisperKenvue]

A few things crossed my mind while watching this video: 1) How do you measure your draw length, what are the reference points? 2) Another reason for difference between the real draw weigth on your fingers and what's printed on your limbs: production variations... some of the cheaper bows/limbs are not quite as they are stated. Ragim for example is known for having a slightly higher draw weigth as printed on the bow/limbs, at least in the lower price range 3) Matching bow and arrows... I smell a video about bare shaft tuning coming up... ;) Keep up the good work! Even as an instinctive archer I highly enjoy your videos, it's easy to recognize that your are a teacher ;) Kind regards from Germany

[@NUSensei]

I've already done a video on bare shaft tuning.

[@centripetal25]

+NUSensei This would be a lot simpler if you hung the scale on a rope, nock an arrow to your bow, and pulled the bow downwards until through the clicker. This would be the most accurate estimate of your draw weight on fingers before release.

[@NUSensei]

Why wouldn't I just use the clicker while holding the bow myself? This wouldn't be an estimate; it's a precise measurement.

[@centripetal25]

+NUSensei you could but its awkward and potentially can strain a muscle since it might force you out of alignment with that gadget. esp if triple checking. you didnt mention using the clicker (just a modified anchor) in the video so its just a suggestion. of course you can also draw it.

[@NUSensei]

I forgot the clicker method as I was using a barebow initially. Measuring using the clicker as a reference is the best way. I'm just not clear on how it is unsafe - the draw and anchor is no different to using a release aid on a compound bow. In comparison, the vertical method seems more awkward and dangerous, as you are hanging a fully loaded bow and pulling it downwards. I'd suggest that if there wasn't a handheld scale available and you had to improvise a rig for it, but the whole point of a handheld scale is to draw it like a release aid.

[@davidt4172]

I want a pencil like that :)

[@ArielEmiliani]

First of all I want to say thank you for all your videos, you are amaizing and so generous for share your knowledge. May I suggest you to improve the location-set for your videos... I know that the important is the topic not the environment but I just want to help you. Thank you again man, you make an incredible work!!!

[@GsyMoo]

Your figures work pretty well for me. I have a 31 inch + draw so pull about 20% over, so on my son's 30lb bow I pull around 36lb and on my 50lb bow its more like 60lb. Found out by popping I bit of tape on the end of an arrow to mark my draw, then pulling it through some digital luggage scales.

[@zweck4629]

10$ luggage scale, just draw to you anker point and youve got it. Draw lenght, riser lenght and tiller bolts with ILF bows, brace height, humidity and use over time for selfbows can change the labeled poundage.

[@salimbarry7316]

Dear NUSensei, I read in one reference the calculation is like this : Actual_weight = marked_weight - ( (28 - draw_length) x ( (marked_weight / 20) x 1.5) ) .... As you may notice there is (1.5) factor which they multiply it also.... What is the different ? I will get headache slowly slowly ..I am reading about archery much much more than practicing, I hope that I do not walk in difficult way to be good archer!!! Thank you a lot.

[@alexanderflack566]

It should be noted that this formula doesn't work for static recurves, particularly at higher draw weights. My Toth bow stacks ~4.7 pounds per inch over 28" (their web site says draw weight for heavier bows changes about 5 pounds per inch over 28", and half that under 28" due to the mechanical advantage provided by the siyahs through that portion of the draw).

[@Marshall_78]

i have learn so much stuff already from watching your videos i havnt got a bow yet well yet i will have once it arrives hopfully tomorrow

[@endofhope2068]

+Jerico Marshall Cool :) Recurve or Compound?

[@Marshall_78]

Compound 40/60 atunga

[@joedaniels4646]

Awesome video ... thank you very much!

[@jonedwards7019]

Have you done a video on measuring draw length? It's really not obvious how it's calculated. A lot of people think you measure to the button or the arrow rest. The manufacturers however (ATA) specify the draw length is measured to the pivot point of the grip, plus 1.75". On a lot of recurve risers, the closest pressure button hole is also aligned to the pivot point, so button + 1.75" should also be OK. Another method is to measure to the back of the riser, but this is flawed because your draw length could then vary depending on the riser design!

[@keeianfazilkee8552]

Maby it is more fun if your video have question in the end of the video... hehehe i like the educational you share

[@Bart_S87]

Nice video, been looking for some explenation on this subject. Another subject i need more info about and haven't found on your channel yet is shaft sizes and wheter i should take the most stiff or most 'flexible' shaft that's possible for my poundage. I understand it is somewhat personal choice and pro's get more stiffer arrows, but still i do not really understand the mechanics behind it and therefore i do not understand it completly. This is why i can't make a good choice. So if you would enlighten me in a video i would be honoured, NUSensei :)

[@robinfielding9506]

That explains a lot

[@jaymorris3468]

Where do you measure the 28" standard from, ballpark using a tape measure or tiller,,,, measure front of riser or behind (nearer you), cheers

[@valeriu-iuliansandu-grigor6490]

Shouldn't there be a discrepancy between measuring with any type of scale( digital, analogue) by using the supplied hook versus using a "hook" that would mimic a normal hook that uses 3 fingrers or simmilar to that shape? Any thoughts?

[@NUSensei]

It shouldn't matter. The weight shows the amount of force on the hook, as provided by limbs when drawn to that length. There shouldn't be a difference between drawing 28" with your fingers and doing the same with a rack.

[@Exlaax]

If i get 30# limbs and carbon arrows rated for 30# bows. But my daw lenth is greater than 28" am i in risk of the arrow shattering?

[@fadhlyaezuddinmuhdfadhil2525]

How lucky am I to actually have an exact 28" draw

[@Hazzar595]

Saaaame

[@user-tw9io9nz2m]

It's the standard because most average people have 28" draw lengths

[@rogersmart1393]

Did you fletched your pen helically?

[@Vindalo100]

why do you divide your printed draw weight by 20? where does that number come from?

[@MrOzBigfoot]

I was told by a local shop it is: stated 28" draw length - brace height. Usually brace height is around 8", so 20 is usally pretty close.

[@jojohendo7385]

I cannot find arrows with a 24 pound draw weight that aren’t fiberglass help me

[@cody3362]

Bulk up and pull a heavier bow

[@jojohendo7385]

Dude the bow that I am getting only goes up to 36 and with my draw length that is 24 pounds so I can’t and also I am a kid trying to convince my parents to let me buy a bow and I am not sure that I can even pull that string at 24 lbs

[@DanBoy42]

Love your pen!

[@thegothicswordsman839]

I'm glad I have a 28in draw :) Makes it so much simpler :) I did test it though, when I bought my w&w RCX-17 at #50 and it was indeed bang on #50 at 28in ^__^ happy days!

[@jaytsang1161]

doesnt the draw weight decrease with use of the bow?

[@bandicoot5412]

Very informative, thank you.

[@cyzam]

is that bow scale accurate? i've had so much problems trying to find good bow scale. a lot of them are way off

[@TheAegisClaw]

Lots of people forget this, it ramps up pretty steeply. My 38lb limbs give me 43lb on my fingers at 29.5"

[@archangelangel7478]

love the video thank you what determines a bow's draw weight ? (when a bowyer is making different draws weights for a bow, what do they do to increase or decrease the draw weight of that model bow?)

[@Windsong2001]

Exactly how do you adjust the draw weight on this type of bow ? Have you done a video about this ?

[@alexanderflack566]

Either change your anchor point, which is not recommended as it can harm form and accuracy, or get new limbs or a new bow.

[@ImmortalChaos]

OMG, I love that pencil!

[@Briansgate]

so, if i have a bow, rated at 50lbs and 28" (which a 500 spine is default recommendation), and I have a 25" draw, making my draw weight effectively about 43ish pounds, then i should adjust my arrow spines as well, yes?

[@bluebow68]

Essentially..I would say yes..But don't cut the arrow down as this would stiffen the spine/alter the '500' issue..as the spine is calculated @ 28" inches..which is critical..If you opted for a shorter arrow..(trying to save weight/grains etc)..Your spine '500' idea would have to be cre-considered..Please someone correct me if i'm wong..Hope this helps..

[@Vill270]

Are the weight estimations different for shorter limbs? I am using size short limbs on a 25inch riser with a 26 inch draw. Are these limbs meant to be drawn at a shorter than standard (28inch) draw length while also made to match the flat part of the energy curve with a 26 inch draw anchor position? Would these limbs, using the estimation, be an actual 32.4 pounds@26 if not 36 pounds@26?

[@NUSensei]

The calculations assume the 28" standard, because that's what the draw weight is measured at regardless of the size of the limbs. There are differences in shorter bows stacking differently, but this is something that can only truly be measured using a scale and not on paper. The estimation only gives you reference.

[@jackboyd2352]

Tongtu Outdoor 54" Takedown Recurve Bow Hunting Target Right Hand Bow Draw Weight in 30-50lbsi would like to know about this bow you should do information on what is on Amazon or eBay

[@mastachilla8393]

How did you get from 21 to 33 pounds

[@gerardotoole697]

Very good information . I learned a lot. thanks a lot.

[@dilloncornett1539]

Knowing that I actually draw around 44# on my 40# bow at 30" makes me feel a lot more comfortable about trying to go hunting. Everyone always says 45# is the minimum, and it feels good knowing that I'm only one off from it. Probably overbowed for my 120# body weight but its better than having an animal suffer.

[@DR000Evil]

If you draw 44# at 30" with a 6" brace height, then you have 59.7 Joules of potential energy. (0.76-0.15)*195.7*0.5=59.69 Inches were converted to meters and pound to newton. A 45# bow at 28" with a 6" brace height have 56.1 joules of potential energy. (0.71-0.15)*200.2*0.5= 56.06. You calculate the potential energy of a bow by multiplying the powerstroke (draw length minus brace height) in meters with your average draw weight througout the powerstroke in newtons m*N=J

[@bluebow68]

If you don't want an animal to suffer..don't shoot it!

[@erg0centric]

5% per inch distance from 28"

[@DarxusC]

This is the same as the second formula in the video, worded differently. Because 1/20th = 5%. Thank you.

[@Alexander27463]

So if i draw back my 45 pound bow 30" i would actually be pulling back a weight of 50-51 pound. I really should measure that. Its just a shame that my string was getting loose wires and i have to wait till i have a new one. Ofcourse i have the type of string you cant seem to buy anywhere. So i have someone from the club make 1.

[@felixfontenot4824]

I also have a 45# bow and a 30 inch draw. My bow felt really heavy. But after doing some research and watching this video it makes sense.

[@DR000Evil]

The math in the video is not entirely correct, he forgot to subtract the brace height from draw length. If he draws a 40# bow at 28" to 26" then the draw weight should be 36.4# which he got close to. (26-6)/(28-6)*40=36.36 if the brace height was 10" the draw weight would be 35.6#. This is all assuming that bows follow hooke's law (The increase in force is linear)

[@nicnic6797]

It is very interesting that you're drawing 33 when using 40b limbs at 26inches, I would have thought you'd be drawing closer to 36 assuming that you lost 2lb for every inch under 28. However when you use the smaller bow at 25lb at 26, you actually had 21lb which is an accurate calculation at losing 2lb per inch under 28. Any reason why it seemed that you had lost 6-7lb on your 40lb limbs compared to the youthbow at 25lb? Very peculiar~

[@NUSensei]

It's probably due to winding the bow down using the tiller bolts to get a good tune with my arrows.

[@nicnic6797]

+NUSensei Oh, that would make sense, especially if you had dropped it the entire 10% of adjustment, thanks sensei :). Would you also happen to know where we can find out what draw weights and draw lengths the prominent archers like Lee Woo Seok and Hyejin Chang have? Thanks again.

[@NUSensei]

The Athletes on the World Archery site lists some information, including draw weight and arrow length. Some of the entries are incomplete.

[@MikeMafiaII]

Where did you get the arrowpen? Made it yourself or ordered it somewhere?

[@NUSensei]

It was made for me. They're pretty easy to come by. It's simply a broken arrow cut down to size and finished with the tube from another pen.

[@MikeMafiaII]

NUSensei Ah okay, thanks for the reply

[@phantomcruizer]

Mike dn :goto etsy.com then search for arrow pens ...$3-5 USD.

[@yermanoh]

nice pen

[@JakeBullit123]

I'm surprised your draw length is only 26 inches.

[@Hizsoo]

But how to measure the draw weight of a person with an exercise, what gets associated with a sport, which is other than archery at first glance?

[@amirulhazim8418]

7:15

[@amirulhazim8418]

1:40

[@tristanberke8759]

so are all these low draw weights actually normal? because I used a 50lb at 28" bow for a long time, but my draw length is actually 30", so I guess it was a bit above 50 lbs, I now use a 55lb bow at 30" and can shoot it VERY accurately. (keep in mind I am a hunter, not an Olympic archer, nor do I ever plan to be one.) but I've tried a 40 lb bow and it feels like a child's toy to me. So is everyone else weak or am I the asshole using way too much weight? XD (if I could pull back a 100lb bow I would use that and shoot tree trunks as arrows, but in reality, I may get up to 60 or 70 eventually.)

[@NUSensei]

These weights are normal for target shooting. The difference is that you're shooting smaller targets further away and loosing more arrows each session. In contrast, traditional shooters and hunters will go for heavier bows for more penetration and overall effectiveness in shorter distances and generally shoot less than a competitive archer.

[@tristanberke8759]

that actually makes a lot of sense. I figured fatigue could absolutely destroy a proper Olympic form, so that does make sense that if you have no need for the arrow to be that powerful when it hits the target, then its just wasted energy to get a powerful bow. its just surprising to me that 25-40 lbs is completely normal for target shooting. (I am 6'3" and very strong, so my perception of strength with normal people is quite distorted.) but I suppose you learn something new every day. honestly, though if I were to get into archery for form and sport rather than hunting, I would likely try Kyudo. 8 foot long asymmetrical bow and shooting thumb/pinch style rather than 3 finger Olympic could be fun.

[@MrOvidiuk]

Very informative but if someone can do the math I think should not be allowed to use a bow, or any weapon, seriously

[@maisetas]

why do you use imperial scale if you dont like it ? i cant understand a shit..

[@NUSensei]

It's industry standard, so I don't have a choice.

[@MrCGangsta]

disappointed by your asia math skills :)