O-KATANA vs KRIEGSMESSER - The ultimate sword showdown!

[@Devlinator61116]

I love how the trio are able to professionally disagree without it negatively influencing their friendships.

[@MarcusBritish]

Question is, why should it affect anyone's friendship... they're debating the differences between bits of crafted metal... there are no controversial issues here unlike topics such as politics or religion, which tend to cause deeper rifts between people. I'd be worried if people fell out over something like this because they could not engage in healthy civil debate or agree to disagree.

[@Obi-WanKannabis]

Bruh, do you agree with everything with your friends?

[@markfergerson2145]

Let’s face it; they’re a more wholesome iteration of The Three Stooges.

[@panumastubsee603]

Yeah a lot of friendships was broken because of something like this

[@MMORPGdude01]

That's just what they want you to think. They don't show you the part after the video where they work out their differences by slicing each other up and then downing some health potions to be ready for the next video.

[@GoldenSax]

Have you seen those warriors from Hammerfell? They have curved swords! CURVED.... SWORDS!

[@mardelmarcano]

You there, we're looking for someone in Whiterun, and we'll pay good money for any information. A woman, a foreigner in these lands. Redguards like us.

[@edthesillybrain]

“…And why is it called Hammerfell anyway? Did a Hammer fall on it or something?”

[@thnecromaniac]

​@@edthesillybrainso they say, but how trustworthy are the accounts of elves anyways?

[@edthesillybrain]

@@thnecromaniac was referencing a video with an AI voice over. Hilarious video.

[@devinm.6149]

True, though some of these blades look more akaviri

[@andrewbaynard2914]

I must admit, I am loving the Tyranth/Shad opposition with Nate as neutral party. It works really well.

[@huskiefan8950]

I wonder if that's intentional....

[@registheron9752]

​@@huskiefan8950 It may be, it could also just be a natural form of their friendship.

[@themr_wilson]

I appreciate how they set their biases aside and often remind everyone that it ultimately comes down to preference

[@registheron9752]

@@themr_wilson Agreed. When it comes to melee combat, familiarity is an equalizer. Comfort and ease of use goes into that.

[@shatnermohanty6678]

It's somewhat like Spock and Dr McCoy at either ends with Captain Kirk in the middle

[@travishancock9120]

I love how Shad is become the patron saint of boob armor, the langmesser, and sword ownership in Australia, and it all started with Shad's mall ninja wallhanger.

[@Gaius453]

Don’t forget Sticcs

[@vaultguy8011]

I mean I'd call the dibs for the Messer on Skallagrim rather thank shad

[@Mygg_Jeager]

​@@Gaius453Sticc always win

[@johnmurcott1273]

Snake killer extraordinary!

[@mansfieldtime]

You forgot the first meme. Machicolations. Or as Shad says it MA-CHIC-U-LA-TIONZZZZAAaa. whataboutdragons?

[@ForsakenGaming666]

It's funny seeing Tyranth die inside when he sees the "scimitana". I feel his pain.

[@ForbiddenChocolate]

Yes! He seems so ashamed of his creation. Poor Tyranth. 😂

[@Roninink]

​@@ForbiddenChocolatehe really does but the crazy part is he not the only person to make these hybrids there are a few on reddit that have made some,... granted not as uh,... funky looking as his 😂

[@АйбулатИсхаков]

Imagine what would be if they have put a basket hilt on it

[@hraefn1821]

Anime has some cool examples.

[@The1996Shadow]

I came looking for this comment

[@Attaxalotl]

Reminds me of how literal decades of study of how tanks did in WWII concluded that the specifics of the various designs on either side mattered a whole lot less than just shooting first.

[@iceee420]

That and I think staying around 70 tons for mobility. I might be wrong though

[@purgeutopia8696]

Yeah. 100 Ton monster tanks didn't really serve much of a purpose. Other than being a waste of resources. Looking at you Maus.

[@heftyordinanceindividual4015]

that but also logistically and finanically. If your tank is too big to fit on your existing railway cars, then you also have to design and test a new car specifically for the tank. Not enough interior space for standard equipment and you have to get workarounds or get smaller stuff.

[@foldionepapyrus3441]

Before being able to do the shooting first bit you actually have to get the battle field - and that is the big positive to a Sherman for all its other relative faults, cheap and easy to mass produce and the maintenance access is really really good and that makes keeping lots of them on the move really really easy compared to the German Stuff, and a big positive for the Churchill family of tanks that can climb inclines like no other tank of their era.

[@Attaxalotl]

@@foldionepapyrus3441 The Sherman is what people think the T-34 is

[@krissaunders6418]

That rehilted sword needs a name. I stand by 2 possibilities 1) Tyranth's Bastard. He really treats it like people think medieval people treated bastards. 2) Tyranth's Abomination. Gives the feeling of the first without the word Shad won't say

[@MrBlorp-sf9ye]

I vote Tytanth's Abomination

[@rod4309]

I vote 1 For your reasoning, and because it's probably usable in one or two hands

[@Disgruntled_Dave]

Pretty sure I've heard Shad say "bastard" before, at least in relation to swords.

[@knightaries13]

Tyranth's Bastard Abomination.

[@joshuawilliams4741]

The Cursed Sword of Tyranth

[@reeceemms1643]

Day 9 of asking for a medieval misconceptions video on medieval weddings and how we can incorporate them into our fantasy stories

[@nobodyhimself1643]

Can’t wait to see day 10

[@MatthewWilliamsX]

​@@nobodyhimself1643 was my exact thoughts on first read.

[@MrPlainsflyer]

Oh a very interesting topic! I would like this for a game I'll DM

[@reeceemms1643]

@@MrPlainsflyer I just want to know because I have two chapters designed to a wedding in my fantasy novel

[@mythguard6865]

I’ll thresh the floors and grab the swans!

[@ClintOrris]

2:20 Wow. Medieval falchions were actually very beautiful. They look like legit fantasy swords. It's a shame more of them didn't survive for us to see now. At least we have them in painting form to chronical them.

[@Mygg_Jeager]

The reason they didn't survive is the same reason they fell out of popularity, they were as thin as a modern machete.

[@caseyh1934]

Falchion is a beast in Blade & Sorcery

[@RokuroCarisu]

Most people are only familiar with the wide, machette-like variant of the falchion, and thus consider them less elegant in comparison to longswords.

[@PerSon-xg3zr]

​@@RokuroCarisuYea in reality, Falchions were single edged long swords

[@Mygg_Jeager]

@@PerSon-xg3zr that's not the definition of a longsword LOL. Likewise, I wouldn't exactly call a one-handed 18in bladed weapon "long," assuming that's what you meant by a long sword.

[@gildias2556]

I love the dynamic between these three guys lol. This channel has quickly become my favorite to watch

[@BobT36]

Nate is a great addition to the channel. His sword knowledge really helps combine with Shad's, and especially his training and insight on practical use, really help.

[@Disgruntled_Dave]

Finally, someone makes a "katana comparison" video with a sword that is actually comparable to the katana. Also, I just love Tyranth's look of dismay whenever they take out his, uh, bastard-tana. Bastarna? Katarda? I dunno, one of those should work.

[@rock21611]

They pinned a comment on the last video that recommended Yougatana, meaning western katana.

[@Mygg_Jeager]

I've always compared the Japanese katana 17th century Western cutlasses and Sabers, because they were also contemporary.

[@thomasphillips885]

Katana vs GUN wHo wOUld WIN?!!!?

[@matohibiki]

Batana. Ringringringringring, Batana sword.

[@valkyriesurvives5109]

Katarda fits

[@RainMakeR_Workshop]

A couple of points worth noting. Uchigatana (what we call Katana) are peace time sidearms that are a marking of station. In terms those terms, its closer to the court swords or small swords that nobility would wear. The O-Katana is closer to a Tachi in size, which is the sword that was used during times of war. Historical Uchigatana and Tachi also often had larger more protective tsuba and wider, more choppy blades.

[@Erebus2075]

while true also not true. it's closer to the sables that was used by officers; and if you think those are just for "show" you are sorely wrong. also to this day there are people carrying various of these not just as a show, but as an actual effective weapon where a ton of training is but into it.

[@RainMakeR_Workshop]

@@Erebus2075 Who said anything about being for show? I said they’re a marking of station, not a decoration. You’re arguing against a point that no one made. I'm also not sure how exactly an officers sabre is closer? Samurai are basically low nobility, making them close to European low nobility such as knights. If you're saying its closer to an officers sabre because of military command, European nobility had that too. Also Katana and Small Swords were worn in civilian life as markings of station. Sabres were not.

[@Tunturisorsa]

to my knowledge, tachi is an older design from the warring states period and was generally used from horseback. the uchigatana developed after the warring states period and evolved into a smaller size, because it was not a battlefield weapon anymore; it was an everyday carry weapon and a symbol of your post as a samurai, as you said. EDIT: warring states period is completely wrong and refers to chinese history. what im referring to is from roughly Heian period onwards until the Edo period

[@RainMakeR_Workshop]

@@Tunturisorsa Aye, thats more or less it. Though there is a Warring States Period in Japanese history. The Sengoku Period! Sengoku Jidai has a literal translation of "Warring States Period".

[@Tunturisorsa]

@@RainMakeR_Workshop oh I thought there was one but as I hesitated I double checked on Google quickly. Too quickly lol..

[@MrPlainsflyer]

Ah yes. The imortal question that will live forever online Addendum: it's so good, as a blast from the past, to see Shad give throne lectures every once in a while

[@cj09beira]

was just rewatching some of those videos, agreed 100%

[@matihughes1345]

Not gonna lie the scimitana has mesmerized me to the point of wanting to make my own and one of the things I was literally thinking today was what if I use a tachi instead of a normal katana so now I can't wait to see you guys make the ultimate O-Scimitana and see how it compares to the original Scimitana or a longsword

[@Likexner]

And give it the typical katana handle wrap.

[@-.Outlaw.-]

@@Likexnernah

[@Likexner]

@@-.Outlaw.- yeah

[@TalesofDawnandDusk]

As someone who studies and reads ancient Japanese literature for fun, I'm fascinated at 1) seeing old Japanese swords in general and 2) How detailed you and these other gentlemen's opinions of the swords are. I love ancient Japan but I feel like you give these swords as honest and thorough of a review as possible. If you ever have questions about ancient Japan or you just want to hear some interesting stories, I'd love to regale you or anyone with all manner of useless trivia. Also, as a fellow member of the Church, I applaud how you are open and honest with your faith and I'm very glad to be apart of the same. 我が友よ、ようこそ御座したれ

[@danieltilson4053]

Based on other videos, I suspect the 2 handed Falchion would be Shad's favorite of the three. He loved the Kriegsmesser, but said the handle wasn't comfortable.

[@myusername3689]

Yea the handle cuts into you

[@georgegrosu9223]

I love how you 3 have become my new Top Gear trio. Please don't stop.

[@amanormaybeadragon]

Lol a Shadiversity video hasnt truly started until Ty and Shad have a little argument

[@Redneckcheese]

I love how I’m finally getting your videos recommended shad love the new videos!

[@sebastiandk9575]

Awesome video! Ultimately I think nate hit the nail right on the head at the end. Rather do 98% of the damage with a significantly higher chance of survival.

[@GatorGusOfficial]

I love how tyranth is constantly trying to convince everyone that the katana is better without them noticing, but they always notice

[@oddyslay]

Since one of the major talking points was the advantage of the Japanese style pinned hilt, absorption of vibration, and ease of repair, I think it would be neat to do a very simple re-hilting, in merely changing the tsuba for a crossguard, not even adding a pummel.

[@othannen.]

B-but murder strikes!?

[@scorpionlord9175]

only issue i see with that is the added weight would make it even more top heavy and thus possibly just downright unwieldly. the benefit of the pummel is it has the protection of the crossguard, but the pummel adds weight at the bottom to balance it out.

[@foldionepapyrus3441]

Be an interesting experiment - though I think as you make that Japanese style construction even more top heavy with the crossguard you will want that nice rounded grippy pommel to help with balance and control or to add rather more distal taper to the blade, at which point you don't have Japanese style sword in any way but the wooden pegs in the handle...

[@MW_Asura]

That trades all of the versatile points of a European sword just for a little more comfort. It's not worth it

[@Murdrad]

Im so happy Shad found some pals. In his early videos he brings up a lack of clubs.

[@anthonylamonica8301]

Don't worry Tyranth, even the Japanese made double-edged blades historically! If you can find one, try and get a reproduction _kissaki moroha zukuri_ style blade! It's a curved Japanese blade, but with the back edge is sharpened for most of the length. It was popular around 900 AD.

[@Xerxes1688]

Which is similar to Mugen's sword from Samurai Champloo. Plus, Mugen's sword also has a guard similar to a sai dagger instead of a tsuba, and an acorn-shaped pommel.

[@-.Outlaw.-]

Still trash compared to a long sword

[@aryankala7858]

Or just steal the kusanagi no tsurugi their national treasure which is also a straight sword

[@Luu_-iu5jp]

@@-.Outlaw.- say a young man who dont know how to use none of those in the right way , both of them has strong and weak point katana are not magical blade who cuts anything the same for the long sword , katana is better in some situations and long sword in other

[@-.Outlaw.-]

@@Luu_-iu5jp no the long sword is just better lmao. More maneuverable, longer, more versatile, has 2 edges, more protection, slightly worse at chopping but not enough to make a significant difference, same weight but longer blade, can thrust and stab. It’s straight up a better sword and anyone who disagrees is just a weeb or a fanboy. Saying they’re just as good is just a cop out that people use to not offend anyone.

[@LunarSoda17]

That effortless flip at 17:31 😳

[@lemoncurry351]

It’s not a matter of blade profile! It’s a simple question of weight ratios! Jokes aside, one thing to address about the tachi before comparing it alongside the katana and o-katana is that the tachi is a cavalry-intended weapon. So it’s longer than a katana but also noticeably thinner to make it easy to wield with one hand while the user’s other hand is holding reins. That being said, I cant wait for shad to review an accurate tachi replica

[@CaseyBartley]

That isn't true at all. Tachi were of many lengths and blade shapes over it's 500 years of popularity. Modern Japanese sword collectors often cite Kamakura period (1200s) as one of the pinacles of the design, and a fairly long, thick, and wide blade with a stout tip was VERY popular during that period. 80-90cm being within the norm. Larger examples were two handed calvary sidearms to the yumi (bow) or horseback naginata (glaive).

[@JoshuaBlackmon-pf6xf]

Samurai used the tachi on foot as well

[@lyravale1148]

OH I loved this video so much!!!! It was such a treat ^^ It was so cute when Tyranth gave that little spoiler at the beginning!!

[@Jackson-rx8sm]

Would half-swording be a legitimate reason in a zombie apocalypse to want a crossguard? As a last resort if you've been slashing all day and your edges are shot

[@jackhall290]

If you're fighting for your life, any technique that is implemented with success, is legitimate.

[@RobintheW]

In any case a Crossguard would help in Melee engagements with armed survivours. Even if they're using improvised weapons. So it's better to have one anyways

[@michaelpettersson4919]

​@@RobintheWThose movies always seem to have some people that are worse then the zombies that just seem to act on pure instict, they aren't actually evil.

[@muskett2350]

I wouldn't want a sword in the apocalypse anyway. Just imagine all the cleaning and sharpening and stuff you would have to do, not to mention the tiny risk of cutting yourself and infecting yourself while maintaining the blade. But yes, I would like a crossguard please.

[@muskett2350]

Unga bunga, blunt weapons go smash

[@JuanRojo-bv7jm]

Great video, funny and serious debate, almost heated discussion, yet respectfull and 100% entertaining.

[@krishnakantbhatt9947]

One Sword to rule them all One Sword to find them One Sword to bring them all And in the Cross-Guard bind them In the noble Shadlands Where the O-Scimitanas lie

[@DragonBorn-ij3wz]

At 40:52 when shad says bringing the best of both worlds you can see the disappointment in tyrants face

[@SouthpawZer0]

Two-handed falchion is a thing of beauty.

[@daemonside]

More Nate. Get that man his own channel. Good video fellas.

[@IIIAnchani]

Personally, having wielded similar weapons of both categories, the one difference that really tips the scale for me is the crossguard. I play the piano. I value my fingers. A LOT.

[@Luu_-iu5jp]

but crossguard are not that superior , not the regular ones , tsuba has a lot of variants too , and the one in the video is a small tsuba made for katana and wakizashi and they are using on a okatana/taichi which is more heavy and bigger , i am a kenjutsu learner and i already wielded a few crossguard sword , the point is the regular crossguard gives u a one side protection where tsuba protects horizontal and vertical , also the right way to block a blow with a kata are not the tsuba itself but the blade , the tsuba will be a protection to your fingers in case that the enemy tries to reach your hand when u block a blow , in other models of european swords we have the crossguard with rings those one are really above the tsuba

[@Erivel]

The "spoiler alert is falchion" got me laughing. I love the dynamic of your team

[@theprofessionalfence-sitter]

I've been told that the reason that Kriegsmesser has this hilt construction is just to get around rules. Only the sword smith guild were allowed to produce swords and so others who also wanted to do it invented the 'trust me, it's totally a knife and not a sword' Kriegsmesser.

[@juan0808]

Yes basically it was the result of a legal battle between the swordsmith guild and the knife makers guild. After the knife makers begun to make swords but saying they were totally not swords just really long knives.

[@Justice_XI]

I really enjoy your channel and the three of you having such good input and logical thinking and debate

[@apollolux]

As someone who owns no less than four swords myself, two of them being katanas and one of them almost certainly is actually sharp and functional, I very much enjoy this recent series of "Katana vs." and the attempts to "upgrade" katana design on the Shadiversity channel!

[@erixouther]

this was probably the most comprehensive comparison video i've ever seen, on anything

[@maxencebraud-devincey6952]

I don't care about their arguments, i'll never kneel to the weebs, a kriegsmesser is just not beatable in my eyes. Great vid shad btw

[@ScrubDaddy265]

I love the dedication to the scientific method. 🤣 I wonder if Shad wouldn’t like an O-Katana with a more oversized Tsuba that gave more complete hand protection like a katzbarger, say? And perhaps a pommel-esque cap on the end of the O-Katana? I’d also love to see the Kriegsmesser with the handle scales altered to be more comfortable.

[@entgan]

I want Shad to get the other two in on a test of the Rapier VS Katana(basically the swordstyle debate of Fencing VS Kendo, but only the sword aspect.) As that debate has been raging for ages and needs looked at from not only the blade aspect but the preference aspect. Which whenever these three test together you get a much more diverse and truthful answer to the topic.

[@foldionepapyrus3441]

That would be fun to hear them discuss, though as far as I know none of them are really Fencers in style so probably not all the balanced coverage.

[@daryslash]

Keep these types of videos coming, please! Sword comparison, analysis and whatnot!

[@Archontasil]

Length wise okatana would be similar to longsword. But how about the user height-sword ratio? Japanese people are shorter, would the ratio be a better factor than just length?

[@myusername3689]

I mean length is advantage regardless of height

[@myusername3689]

Although a taller person typically has more reach than a shorter one which makes the longer sword even more devastating.

[@Archontasil]

@@myusername3689 here's the ratio. A longsword is 120cm, it's 2/3 of 180cm. (The height of A big knight at that time) While a katana is 100cm, it's 2/3 of 150cm (probably average samurai height) So those swords are roughly about 2/3 the size of the user. So a samurai duel with katanas, and a knight duel with longswords would have roughly the same distance ratio between each other

[@CaseyBartley]

Yes, the average Japanese male was shorter than his European counterpart. In Japanese swordsmaship, length of the uchigatana (katana) is determined typically by height in many styles. Historically it would have been more personal preference, and in some periods lengths were on par with most longswords. The length I used for training, for example, was around 80cm for my height. Late Edo, long straight versions were popular, some surviving examples around 84cm right toward the end of the legal length allowed to wear / carry in public, again possibly for someone shorter than me by a bit, maybe not.

[@corinnecivish7673]

So much fun to watch you guys. I next I'm going to watch the rehilting of a o-katana! I'd be interested if with an added guard it was too heavy, or it it adversely effects the balance.

[@TheSpongyMallard]

I’ve said it a few times, but your content is better than ever right now.

[@jacobweaver368]

Never a dull moment here on Shadiversity.

[@nobsherc]

Just remember that this tsuba is tiny compared to the ones from Sengoku period where the okatana would be used in the battlefield.

[@ethakis]

I'm really not surprised that the results were so similar, but, obviously the fact that the falchion has a crossguard kinda just makes it the winner by default. That said, I think Tyranth did bring up really good points about the O-katana's more forgiving ability to cut and how he believes that sharpening the O-katana is just much easier. The rehilting of the O-katana will be VERY interesting since it will be combining the greatest strengths of both swords. I expect that the cross breed you create will end up being heavier than the falchion, so that will add yet another potential issue. . I hope that when you guys do make that video, you test the crossbreed against both the O-katana and the falchion. I'm absolutely loving this series of videos! I'm also just so glad that Ronin Katana started making this Falchion and you guys brought it to my awareness. I think it will end up being the first sword I've ever purchased!

[@gregthepeglegpregdreg]

it's like a more wholesome top-gear but with swords

[@joshlewis8860]

39:45 The BIGGEST upset I’ve ever heard 🤣🤣 I could see it on his face but I can’t believe he said it out loud lol

[@Arek_1]

Something I want these three to acknowledge about single-edged swords (lacking any back edge, even short false edges) is: the no-look sheathing. With the concept of proprioception (or kinesthesia) (the sense of the position and movement of your own body), you can easily bring together your sword hand, mouth of the scabbard, the webbing between the thumb and index finger on your offhand, and the back of the blade. There are countless times we see these three carefully aim their double-edged swords to their scabbards. Precious seconds that can matter in a situation. Yes, it's in opposition to the ability to do false-edge cuts, but it's something to consider.

[@the13nthpartyboy]

I'm curious in what situation it would be important to quickly sheath your sword. You're sheathing your sword when the battle is done.

[@Arek_1]

@@the13nthpartyboy In a duel, yeah, less effective. But this can have a use on the battlefield or a zombie apocalypse. In Japanese martial arts, they use a term called zanshin. It has the meaning of "relaxed alertness." As you sheath, you can take a stance and keep an eye out and employ an answer to a sudden attack. Maybe it was a soldier lying amongst corpses. Or a zombie that suddenly sprang to life. That's less possible to do if you have your eyes trained on your sword tip as you sheath.

[@Arek_1]

@@the13nthpartyboy Here's a video on zanshin: kzbin.info/www/bejne/bIqZqJ9rl5mprdE And now I realize that this can also be effective in a duel. You down your foe. It seems to be over. You sheath. He thinks "Oh, he's sheathing. Now's my chance!" He takes the bait and you counter with a fast response.

[@the13nthpartyboy]

@@Arek_1 Or... just don't put away your weapon until you know for a fact that you're out of danger.

[@gregfrohwein5579]

It's so much fun to just watch and listen to 3 people who know their shit nerd out about something they love

[@gail_blue]

I wonder how a longsword would be with a katana handle.

[@TobiYouTube09]

Idk that would be interesting

[@rod4309]

you'll find out when they unveil the Tiranth Blade 2!

[@adriellightvale8140]

It'd just be a tsurugi or ken. Tyranth no Tsurugi.

[@frondreadz789]

Trash?

[@michaelpettersson4919]

Let one of KZbin's Japanese katana user review it! 😅

[@Zombi-Boi]

love to see you guys doing what you do!

[@accountname1047]

Love your videos Shad and team, your release schedule being more rapid has been great.

[@takisk.7698]

I love this.. very well said! both great swords.

[@Demo12345]

Something that Tyranth would be annoyed at, his Scimitana would be possible if there had been proper contact between Europe and Japan in the medieval era. I could absolutely see European smiths buying sword blades from the Japanese then putting the handles on the blades themselves to save money, and I'm willing to bet that it would look pretty darn close to what he made.

[@MW_Asura]

But the reason European smiths made the European swords' blade the way they are (double-edged, straight and pointy meant for trusting) was because of the warfare and armour in Europe though. Why would they buy blades from Japan when they wouldn't be suitable for the combat in Europe because of the profile of their blades? It's a fun "what if", but it doesn't make sense realistically

[@haxkztasy]

@@MW_Asura and realisticly if Europeans and Japanese would have gotten any contact... i bet that the Samurai's etc. would have then started to wear full body armor like Europeans did and prolly find more liking in cross guards and figuring out that a pommel acts as a counterweight and thus make European Styled Swords. this was more or less because Samurai's weren't really wearing full armor plates and stuff, they had pretty "light" armor when compared to Europeans and thus had more mobility, but at the same time had less protection cause of it. (something the Europeans have had for a long time aswell, they weren't wearing full body armor throughout history the whole time, they did have their own kind of light armor and prefered mobility more) until ofc full body armor became a thing and it was harder to cut through armor and thus needed more swords to thrust instead of cut, reason double-edged swords became such a big thing in Europe. EDIT: wanted to add that ofc double-edged swords became a thing already when Gambeson became a thing in Europe, cause that already added cutting resistance and thus wanted more thrusting power to overcome a Gambeson, tho Ring-mail was also a big factor in it. Double-edged swords are simply superior to single-edged and thus i think Japan would have most likely gotten into double-edged and just abondone single-edged swords, starting to wear the armor of Europeans. and what a lot of people forget... Japan hasnt used Katana's like alot of people think, they actually prefered spears and bows way more than Katana's, a Katana was mostly more of a side-arm than the main weapon of choice. (which ofc is also true when it comes to Europeans, they loved their spears, axes and bows / crossbows, reason they even came up with full body armor, as it protected your ass from cuts and thrusts more)

[@jameskazd9951]

@@MW_Asura except falchions and kreigsmesser are not double-edged and they are very much European and used in warfare, or were these also not "suitable for combat"?

[@michaelpettersson4919]

The Japanese had problems acquiring good steel. Their smiths was exceptional, I give them that but their smelting technique was rather bad. The many foldings of the steel the smiths made was mainly to knock out impurities. With good crusible steel you do not need to fold at all, unless you really want different hardiness in different parts of the blade. The Japanese DID pick up European armour pieces when given the chance and incorporated them into their traditional armour. Apperantly chestplates where popular.

[@lacabravoladora692]

Shadiversity is on fire rn keep going mate

[@fondyin]

Trying to word this so that it makes sense. The handle construction of the katana, shape wise, with the last inch or so replaced with an integral pommel that doesn't change the shape of the katana handle. I think that is the way to go. Using the wooden pins so the handle can be repaired more easily makes sense. Replacing the tsuba with a cross guard also makes sense. Just throwing a pommel on the katana and changing the construction to a more European design just looks wrong.

[@tylercoddington1990]

I remember a video by Freek Wieringa, where he forged a katana and the pommel was a piece of metal that was shaped and screwed on to the handle. Is this the pommel design you are talking about?

[@fondyin]

@tylercoddington1990 basically. This way the handle keeps the appeance and functionality of a katana handle but with the added benefit of the pommel

[@Xainfinen]

Exactly, again proving how amazing natural material wood truly is. To get better we have to use composite materials, and that's not even guaranteed. Why would we botter doing that when nature already made something as good that is readily available. And as you pointed out, the rest come down to the construction to get the best of all sword.

[@natenrey4601]

This is an addition to my favorite videos

[@SeanCrosser]

The "No" in Nodachi (野太刀) is is not a corruption of the "O" meaning Big/Great (大), it means Field. I assume referring to how you have to use it in an open battlefield instead of how Tachi were used in one-on-one combat. So a Nodachi means Field Tachi, like how the Hakama has a Nobakama (野袴) counterpart, meaning a Hakama that is not the formal, wide hemmed one, instead being akin to jeans.

[@lew526]

I love the chemistry the three of you are developing in these videos. Bravo! I did notice you didn't compare how the two swords perform while thrusting. Why not?

[@andrewbolen2100]

A big missed point of comparison is blade presence. How easy is each to rabat? Btw, the katana has more blade presence with it's forward weight. This will also change how far you can maintain a bind, your presence in it and affect how you wind. How one approaches the bind (I know katanas are Japanese) in Chinese swordsmanship is quite different in practice when using blades like the jian. Arguably, with good form, knowledge and practice, you may not need a cross guard as much as you think. P.s. I prefer European long swords personally, so it's not as if I'm being biased here. Just pointing out that something was missing from the discussion

[@tj_hrothekr]

Shad has stated in other videos how rare blades binding is in his understanding, and that is why he doesnt talk about that aspect very often in videos.

[@andrewbolen2100]

@@tj_hrothekr How many ways do you want me to tell you your IQ is sub 70? 1- I don't care about shad, I care about swordsmanship. 2- Not everyone is shad 3- Yes, some people bind, others less so. Rabats are more common in fencing for instance. 3- Have you ever lifted a sword? 4- Have you ever sparred people with swords? 5- Do you think shad devoted himself to martial arts, or to making fun casual content and books? 6- Listen to people who actually sword fight and are decent at it.

[@ungraa2149]

Super happy to see the katana/warknife comparison

[@igot2remember]

@Shadiversity, i get the criticism with the lack of hand protection on the Katana, but i think there is something you need to test. Sword were not the main weapon for war, as they were secondary weapon. The problem i see with crossguard is the same problem i have with today sidearm having all kind of attachment on them. Having stuff sticking out is not a good thing unless it's your primary weapon. You should test the ability to draw your secondary weapon (weapon with crossguard, and weapon without) quickly in a chaotic fast pace situation, and not have it get stuck, or you fumbling around to get your secondary weapon out. Also, the hurdle for your secondary weapon to easily be on your person, effective when needed, and impede as little as possible with your ability to effectively use your main weapon (Spear, Polearm, etc, and lets include the bow for the Samurai). Edit: Test it while fully suited, as if you were going into combat.

[@t-60studios]

One of the best channels on KZbin!

[@DanielBernardo42]

You guys need to make a video about drawing the sword and attacking. As swords were more of a sidearm or self-defense weapon than a primary battlefield weapon, I think that drawing speed and positioning could make a difference. And another interesting video idea is about when shorter blade leghts is a merit instead of a demerit. The katana may or may not gain some points with these being considered.

[@arvinmatabang3132]

I’d also really love that comparison. I’ve been training the draw and I can’t see being able to do the same on a crossguard. BUT I do a agree that when the blades are out you have really better protection with the crossguard.

[@hejjj12]

Nice, you are staring to have more and more of a top gear grand tour vibe between you. Keep that up, it's amusing. Also, when cutting and measuring deep in objects, like the stick, don't forget to give the viewer some close ups.

[@aidenjessop-df2cf]

You guys are making the best content you ever have. Keep up the good work!

[@NicolasPine]

Thank you Shad, I do love trees

[@marcguidetti3081]

I'm shocked Shad & the Boys didn't addres the most important question, is the O=Kitana or the 2 handed Falchon better against a Dragon. Any Crocodile over 5 meters is a viable stan in for a Dragon. Come on Shad make it Happen. Kitana vs Saltwater Croc will get way over 1 million views

[@Ithirahad]

"Three guys try to figure out if the two-handed falchion is better than the two-handed falchion with a disc guard"

[@shadowofhawk55]

War Knife, fuck i love German.

[@GilgameshEthics]

People often forget that the samurai had extremely good armored fingered gloves while they obsess over the "lack of cross guard"

[@AncestorEmpire1]

It’s better to have the cross guard than not have it.

[@andrewli6606]

Depends on the context. We have to remember the katana is primarily a civilian weapon and a small guard makes sense for a weapon being carried in a sheathe 99% of the time. Smallswords also have a small guard for this same reason.

[@patriarch.9237]

​@@andrewli6606blablablabla, it's better to have a crossguard than not

[@andrewli6606]

Jeez, guys are almost as bad as katana weebs. I suppose you think every culture in the world that didn’t have a crossguard is fucking stupid.

[@edim108]

​@@andrewli6606 Then why is the tsuba used on purely battlefield weapons like Odachi? Because not everything in historic weapons and armor was done purely for practicality. It was a question of aesthetic, of fashion, as much as any practical reasoning. People like accessories. Bracelets or earrings have no practical purpose but people still wear them...

[@spicketspaghet7773]

@@edim108 Also to note, Tsubas were significantly larger in historical blades. Unfortunately, Japan is infamous for painting over its own history constant. Most historical Katana have actually been modified in the Edo period to comply with new sword laws. Which included handle length and Tsuba size restrictions. Depictions of Tachi and other longer swords are shown with much larger tsuba, which would offer much better protection than the tiny ones past the edo period.

[@deatho0ne587]

13:40 seems part of the O Katana is sitting on the table, meaning the table is taking some of the weight from it. Just what I am seeing but I might be wrong. In battle, I would rather have troops not think a weapon they have to use is heavy. A stronger person can wield a light weapon just as good for the most part. Depending on the type of Zombies, I would a cross guard.

[@No_Man_Is_An_Island]

I kinda being annoyed by the way in which people over-hype the Katana. But of course that's not the sword's fault...

[@josuesepulveda6850]

Great video guys!

[@SergioLeonardoCornejo]

Katana. The most misunderstood and misinterpreted blade. People either have no respect for it or consider it a godly blade. All swords are as good as the materials and technique of the swordsmith can make it.

[@TobiYouTube09]

Fr, I was on the other video they talked about, and a guy in the comments said Samurai hated Katana and wanted european medivel swords because they where "better in every possible way" which is just false, he also said 2,000 samurai lost a battle against 50 knights, whitch is completely made up

[@TobiYouTube09]

He also said, "They would use the right tool for the job. Not what they are used to. " When someone called him out, he came up with the comparison. "If you put a musket and an AR-15 in front of a 16th-century soldier, they would pick the AR-15 in a heartbeat" love when ppl make up stuff to hate on katanas, but then some ppl think they are the best weapon ever. That's also false. I don't see ppl just saying that it's a sword

[@Emrirwastaken]

But all swords are useless without a good wielder, a master with a crappy sword can beat a noob with the best sword in the world

[@TobiYouTube09]

@Emrirwastaken Exactly!!!! The sword is the tool. its effectiveness is almost entirely bassed on who uses it and their skill/experience with the weapon

[@marshallzacyarnold3321]

Great video again my guys

[@theguileraven7014]

There’s a pretty major advantage of the tsuba, that I think you guys haven’t quite thought of. It’s more comfortable to carry and easier to draw. Swords are primarily backup weapons, so being able to draw it easily is quite important. Using your thumb to loosen the sword from the sheath is more natural with a tsuba, and there’s far less chance of the guard being caught on something, when being drawn in the middle of a fight. And by “something”, I mean your other swords, since carrying multiple swords is a signature aspect of the samurai. You have a backup to your backup. You can draw the longer katana if you’re in an open skirmish. You can draw the wakizashi or tanto/hachiwari if you’re stuck in an extremely tight formation, or entering a building. You can even draw 2 at once, if you need an off-hand weapon for parrying. -- Also, in regards to “O-Katana vs katana”, as I understand it, such distinctions are primarily from the Edo period where laws were put in place limiting the types of swords/lengths that could be carried, etc. During actual wartimes, I don’t believe they cared about such distinctions, and the longer blade lengths were more common.

[@themr_wilson]

When Nate was holding the staff to hit, I was thinking it'd be easier in the long run to bolt in a horizontal sleeve on a table to slide a staff in. However, that'd make it _much_ easier to just snap off, where holding it does allow give, which translates to a more accurate, more realistic field result

[@Devin_Stromgren]

In a zombie apocalypse you would still want a crossguard, for the same reason boar spears have crossguards, to prevent the zombies from pushing themselves up the blade. It wouldn't be as effective as a boar spear, but it ought to let you hold a zombie out of biting range.

[@Vinizuca]

You would need the cross guard way up in the blade, not near your hands.

[@Devin_Stromgren]

@@Vinizuca That would be better for the expressed purpose yes, but a normal crossguard would still keep you out of the reach of the mouth with your arms held out.

[@robo5013]

Don't forget you'd be fighting more than just the zombies. Other people may not want to eat you, but they want your food.

[@baconghoti]

@@robo5013 did the thought ever occur to you that some people would want to eat you because you'd be living proof of an uncontaminated food source?

[@robo5013]

@@baconghoti Read again. I said MAY not want to eat you, not definitely don't want to eat you.

[@marcogenovesi8570]

Having someone (Nate in this case) be the "sentient stick" instead of hitting a normal non-sentient stick adds a useful viewpoint in these tests about the impact force he feels. That's interesting research

[@MrBlorp-sf9ye]

So I'm developing a video game with a friend of mine, and I really want to put the abomination sword in the game as a reference/easter egg. Would y'all let us do that? As some comments have suggested, I would like to call it "Tyranth's Abomination" or something along those lines.

[@mardelmarcano]

Eyy I'm making a game too. I'm building it in unity and mine will be like a top down jrpg style. Hope you find the passion to make your game cus I know the journey will be hard. Who knows I may do the reference as well.

[@MrBlorp-sf9ye]

@@mardelmarcano We're creating a top-down JRPG style as well! It focuses on dark fantasy themes though, and will feature touch encounters rather than randoms.

[@mardelmarcano]

@@MrBlorp-sf9ye dark fantasy huh. Dear goodness not another fear and hunger, lol. Though my game focuses on having a funny good time with the characters but with a (hopefully) engaging story. I must admit, being a story developer ain't easy cus you don't want it to be too generic or too predictable, but also having a story that's rich, unique, and also makes sense. Bah, I ramble, ya know how it is, game developer issues.

[@zacharyhamley4024]

You guys should make more videos like this but specifically take it through like a forged in fire testing with a kill test, strength test, and then sharpness test and from there do more specialized and specific testing if you feel like it was close enough or if it needed more testing for whatever reason. That way the videos and the conversation can have a more organized format and you can easily structure discussion around the different facets of the blade and which does better with what and why

[@RubixNinja]

The main difference is the quality of steel. The Katana is designed for the steel available to Japan at the time(And I don't think you tested a legitimate crafted Katana made from iron sand, did you?). The design was great for what they had available. The Europeans had better steel techniques at the time of the Kriegsmesser, allowing for a a longer, more flexible, lighter blade. That's another thing about comparing the length with a regular katana. A katana is that length BECAUSE it is heavy(I am talking about the traditional ones, not spring steel modern ones). I wouldn't be surprised if the kregsmesser is lighter than a regular katana even though it is longer.

[@typhoon1575]

The katanas lenght has nothing to do with weight. They have longer swords. They just aren't called katanas

[@RubixNinja]

@@typhoon1575 Yes, it does. There is a reason why the katana is primarily a two handed sword and among the more common weapons of note for samurai. The larger and longer swords were more specialized because they were heavier.

[@NN261]

I'm loving your videos, they are really fun and interesting to watch. Can you talk about Japanese armor, misconceptions, and different designs, and maybe one day you can get one and test it against different weapons?

[@Problemsolver434]

Why did you title your video "the katana is crap" after you claimed the Katana is not a bad sword

[@SteveRogers0768]

Ever heard of clickbait? His channel isn’t doing as well as it used to, so he tried to use a controversial title to get more views and give people a reason go comment

[@Vulpecula-Enfield]

Hey Shad, if you're interested, there is a search for the Loch Ness Monster on the 26th and 27th this month. It's the largest search in the last 50 years, they'll be using drones with thermal cameras and a 60ft hydrophone and an entire army of volunteers. Also, you'll be able to see Urquhart Castle by the loch. It's just a suggestion of things that you could do while in the UK. Take care and have fun.

[@NerfBond007]

Reguarding hand vibration. If you vibrate a longsword you find your cutting zone. Thats where the wobble is stabilized. However there is not just one of those points, there is one in the handle as well and if your grip is above or below you will feel greater vibration. With a longsword its typically mid handle or just lower depending on pommel weight. The katana has no pommel and shorter tang so that point is closer to the guard. Also the katana is more wedge shaped so it feels heavier on the stick target because more blunt force hits the stick.

[@Ianmar1]

Thank you Tyranth.

[@tellmeninetails5819]

For the wood cutting test, the reason why the cuts are the same length could be that the limbs of the person holding it could act as some sort of suspension as the limbs give away.

[@RPBCACUEAIIBH]

Oh the look on Tyranth's face when you pull out the improved katana. =))

[@RoanCritter]

"Corporate wants you to tell the difference between these two swords." "They're the same sword."

[@Jaedeok82]

Shad, I think you'd like a Moroha-zukuri O Katana if you could have one made up. Moroha-zukuri were sharpened along the back edge. (Kissaki-Moroha were only shapened along the back edge toward the tip and are notably different). That's basically a unicorn of a sword, so while the geometry and sword type do exist, finding even full length katana that were fully moroha-zukuri is exceptionally rare. From a standpoint of having a fun as hell toy to play with, I really think that'd be your jam.

[@adriansennett2861]

Love the way ty just duel wields em both like it's nothing. The boy's a beast but agile and graceful too. He'd be a bad ass in a fight.

[@adriansennett2861]

I'd genuinely be incredibly nervous to take him on in a sword fight.

[@artezui]

@@adriansennett2861 it'd be very difficult to fight all of them (just based on experience, really) but tyranth is very intimidating when thinking about it in that context. he's QUITE strong, seeing him swing various blades on this channel at full force is a sight to behold.

[@adriansennett2861]

They have exceptional skill. I've seen Shad doing demo's. It's dedication to your craft. I absolutely love this channel cause they're so honest and into what they're doing.

[@jamesedwardkay4994]

Great video, when talking about the falchion being used one handed, they often were. One of the main uses of the falchions were English longbow Archie's, due to the fact they were single edged and required less training with. There are great examples of longbow Archie's with falchions on their side in alot of art work. ( Coming from a traditional English longbow Archie I have done alot of research in this area )