Octopus Agile Tariff Still the Best in Winter 2024

[@markbennett6658]

I’ve recently switched from Agile to Octopus Go. I have 4kW solar and a net 4kWh battery that force charges overnight in winter. Recently with dropping solar generation and cloudy, mild weather with little wind the Agile low prices aren’t that low at all and the peaks between 4pm and 7pm have got very high. Additionally my daughter has moved back in with her boyfriend who want to do a lot of on peak cooking etc. I have an EV and charger that aren’t compatible with Intelligent tariffs so have switched to Octopus Go. It’s 8.5p 00.30 to 05.30 and price cap rate the rest of the time. We’re still force charging the battery overnight and timing washing machine, dishwasher and particularly tumble dryer to cheap rate as well as charging the EV. Definitely cheaper than Agile now as confirmed in Octopus Compare. Come the spring and if daughter moves out will probably go back to Agile. We’re on outgoing Agile but barely export any because we have a fairly inefficient old house and a small battery and solar system. Heating is still mainly gas although I’m considering a heat pump!

[@UpsideDownFork]

@@markbennett6658 good to hear you're using the compare app to make the best informed decision for your situation 👍

[@EverydayLife621]

I can hear your pain, Mark! - just turn down the thermostat a bit, which will hopefully do the trick (of moving the daughter out again 🤣🤣)

[@gavjlewis]

Agile has been pretty shocking over the last month. Just got my bill the other day and my average rate is 17.25p which is actually lower than I thought it would be. So I'll have to pat myself on the back for a job well done! 😂

[@UpsideDownFork]

Nice considering the last few weeks!

[@TimothyHarrisonHarry]

I’m sticking with Agile, even though it’s rough going for the last month, windy weather will dominate again soon! Like you I’m heat pump dominated right now, but no solar…… weird shaped hip roof! I just figure that if wholesale rates really start going above capped rates for any length of time, the capped rate will go up anyway.

[@UpsideDownFork]

Agreed!

[@pmac6584]

I am on intelligent go and have 18kwh battery. I pay an average of 7.12p for the month for 1383kwh. Add to that £44 for my export from the battery and the average is around 4p per unit. Not sure if that helps with your thoughts on batteries but I am happy with my investment in my lux/hanchu system added to my 4kw solar.

[@UpsideDownFork]

Thanks for sharing! How much did your 18kWh cost you if you don't mind me asking?

[@pmac6584]

I paid £9000 about a year ago. I am in the northwest of england. I think prices are still falling and I needed about 10 meters of armoured cable for the run to the meter cupboard.

[@TheRonskiman]

​​@@pmac6584£9k is a lot. Fogstar 15kWh battery is £2.5K, and their 5.2kW is £1k, there are also cheaper 15 kWh batteries available via Fogstar. I have 29 kWh of self built batteries, built prior to options available now. I wouldn't self build now. PS my electric has been negative enough to even cover my gas bill two years running now.

[@datoon83]

​@@pmac6584we looked at a similar battery. What is the price p/kWh on the battery?

[@kevindavis8442]

After running our new 12.6kWp solar system with a 16kWp battery, I am so glad we chose to have a battery, most likely wont be necessary in the summer to rely on for cheap electricity, although the stored energy will be sold back to the grid when the sun goes in, now its showing its worth, such as today, I knew last night there would be only a couple kWh generated from the solar, so charged the battery up last night on Octopus Go cheap rate at .085p, which will give enough energy to last until tonight where I will charge again because tomorrow is going to be pretty poor for solar generation, cost to charge the battery on cheap rate is somewhere between 50p to a quid. I chose to get a Seplos V4 battery kit which meant a 16kWh battery only cost 1700 quid. and we are only at the beginning of winter, so think we will be relying on the battery for a few months yet over solar. I think you should consider the benefits, its usually at night, in the winter, when power is needed the most. We never take any peak electricity from the grid, the battery see's to that, and on reasonably sunny days, there is no need to charge the battery from the grid as solar charges it suffciently for all out needs. Result is, maximum cost to run the house per day is no more than a quid on no solar generation days. Just to say, its 4.30pm, the battery is now down to 70%, I expect that to drop to around 50%, by 00.30, then it will start to recharge over the next 5 hours to 100% ready for the next days use.

[@UpsideDownFork]

@@kevindavis8442 meanwhile on agile I've got 9.5 hours of negative rate energy where Octopus are paying me and another 7 hours of below 6p. Good deal on the battery 👍

[@UpsideDownFork]

@@kevindavis8442 Nope, available at least Europe wide 👍

[@andrewdeans2179]

I use octopus intelligent and battery. I see your point about battery . I get most of my power 7 p but heat pump has pushed me into some import at standard rate but only in sub zero temperatures. Thanks for Chanel 😊

[@UpsideDownFork]

Intelligent Go with a battery is a great solution!

[@crm114.]

Ditto.

[@randomjasmicisrandom]

I’m on Agile for import and Outgoing fixed for export. I’ve got 7 panels and a small home battery which in the winter is usually empty by about an hour after peak period ends. November has been really tough, the generation levels are about 40% of what the panels managed last November, and the prices have been really high. That said Octoprice is showing I have still managed to save £24 over what a standard variable tariff would cost so I am staying with the same tariffs. At this time of year I save more money with the battery and making sure it is full by 4pm than I do with my panels.

[@UpsideDownFork]

Good to hear the game is working for you!

[@Blocksetter63]

Having a battery certainly makes managing Octopus Agile a lot less hassle and probably leads to larger savings as its easy to avoid the Agile peak rates by ensuring your battery is charged a couple of hours earlier when the rates are lower.

[@randomjasmicisrandom]

@ I’m not sure I would be able to do the Agile ‘game’ without a battery. It’s only a single pylontech with just over 3kWh of storage, but it makes the entire thing much easier to cope with. In the summer I fill up the battery overnight so I start exporting quicker once the sun is up, in the winter I fill up overnight so I avoid the morning peak. The savings over the year have been significant. I find it fascinating hearing about other people’s solar/battery set ups, it’s so true that not two installations are the same.

[@robertsprigge5535]

I've also been on I’m on Agile for Import and Outgoing Fixed for export and, like you, have a small solar & battery (5k) set up. No EV or Heat pump.Yesterday I returned to Flux, as Agile was getting expensive especially, with the lack of solar being generated. The big problem is the limit imposed by the 3.6k Inverter, meaning that we can only use one for the following at the same time otherwise we exceed the Battery output.: Washing machine; Tumble dryer; Dishwasher of 8k Shower. When the switch to Flux was confirmed, I was informed that the Outgoing switch will take longer than the Incoming switch, actually, that's good as Flux pays slightly less;-) It's frustrating having to provide the Certificates every time I switch. Thanks UpsideDownFork for highlighting the Octopus Compare App.

[@randomjasmicisrandom]

@@robertsprigge5535 the good thing is how Octopus don’t have a one size fits all with these smart tariffs. Good luck with the switch. Shame about you missing out on the negative priced electricity we had all of last night! 😜 I’m sticking with Agile as I’m still saving, but it has been really hard to do so this month.

[@ktm660smc6]

Intelligent analysis as usual. I am on Tracker. It has been quite high recently 22p/kWhr ish as we have had a high pressure weather system with calm days with very little wind generation. Last winter there were many days when the price was closer to 10p.

[@UpsideDownFork]

Yep. I was also on tracker last winter. Rates have been high but what goes up, must come down.

[@ChidleyEngineering]

Fixed Octopus Outgoing is the way to go, in my view. I was on Octopus Agile for import and I think that it's the best tariff without a battery. I have recently moved to Octopus Cosy, which is a good match for my battery, heat pump and energy use. I don't think that I'm making money on my battery investment but I might be breaking even. In a year or so batteries are going to be cheap enough to make it worthwhile, assuming you can get it installed cheaply.

[@UpsideDownFork]

@@ChidleyEngineering agree 👍

[@TheTechOnline]

Did a post the other day on Facebook so copying it below. I took all of the 30 minute slots from 2023 and found the 6 cheapest slots each day. My aim would be to charge it up by 15kWh each day, hence the need for 6 slots with a charge rate of 5kWh. If I used 15kWh in the 6 cheapest slots over the whole year my total cost would have been £762.94. However, if I use the IOG price from 2023 of 7.5p for 15kWh a day, it would have only cost £410.62. This is over the whole year though, need to do some more analysis on a month by month basis.

[@UpsideDownFork]

Agile is definitely not for your use case by the sounds of things!

[@geoffreycoan]

I’ve been on Agile import and 15p fixed for just over a year now and like you follow the strategy of building up a large summer credit on my account to offset the high winter consumption. I don’t think Agile has been as cheap as it was last year, in the week it’s often around 16-18p overnight so less benefit to charging my batteries up, especially now it’s turned cold and the ASHP is gobbling through electricity. Am re-looking at Cosy, now it has 3 Cosy cheap periods I get more opportunity to charge the battery up to avoid the standard and peak rate imports. I think its marginal or maybe slightly better on Cosy, need to do some more spreadsheeting!

[@UpsideDownFork]

I'm on the edge of benefitting from cosy. Over the last month Agile has averaged slightly cheaper overall and I'm betting on more favourable rates to come again in the next month.

[@wajopek2679]

Just applied for outgoing fixed given our new install. Even on a completely dull cloudy day (no sun whatsoever) the Enphase system manages to generate something covering base load.

[@UpsideDownFork]

Nice!

[@edwardlamb]

Sticking with Agile. Just had my bill through to yesterday and our average unit rate was still 3p/kWh cheaper than the fixed rate (we are fully electric but no solar/battery yet). It's usually 8 or 9p less, so hoping that this month (which has had some very strange weather) is an outlier. Time will tell! Thanks for the video

[@UpsideDownFork]

Good perspective!

[@EverydayLife621]

My last bill on IOG was: - Total consumption 715.2kWh @ 6.83p/kWh = £48.83, where 6.83p/kWh +VAT is the October average.

[@UpsideDownFork]

Nice! How much battery storage do you have and do you have a heat pump?

[@EverydayLife621]

@@UpsideDownFork 9 x Pylontech US2000 ~ 20Kw (combination of new & used), no ASHP

[@ManChickin]

When the wind blows agile glows!

[@UpsideDownFork]

Oh yes! Waiting and waiting for the wind to return!

[@SimonRGates]

With Octopus i-Go, YTD for us: Exported 1436kWh / £215, Imported 5817kWh / 465, so net cost of £250. We used 8250-ish kWh... We've got 30kWh of batteries (£2800), so I'm considering emptying them before the cheap rate starts, which could add 50% to our exports and reduce our energy bills to the standing charge plus change, saving £2000 a year at current prices.

[@UpsideDownFork]

Sounds good 👍 How did you get your batteries so cheap?

[@elslopez]

You are earning your likes. I use 60KWh of battery storage which can charge and discharge at 10KW, and now the solar sucks (NOTE: yesterday... Nov the 20th was an exception round the Southampton area at 50KWh generation) I literally beat the living death out of the Octopus 7p rate for the 6 hour window charging batteries and cars most days. I see some people pleased at getting lower than default out of Agile, but honestly I would be horrified to get an average of say 17p. High energy users can definitely benefit from home storage, and I think with a set and forget setup paired with the ever cheaper prices for batteries there are not going to be many households left soon that would not benefit! I like the idea of Agile, but there just nowhere near enough low import periods to make it better than Intelligent GO, the 7p rate just wipes the floor with the agile Average. Also I tried letting the hot water go to a lower temp(52C) The wife would not have none of the "low temperature" so I am back to 65C, genuinely impressed you get away with 48C! Keep up the good work 👍

[@UpsideDownFork]

60?! What are you growing in your basement?! For consumption like that then investing in batteries and IOG makes sense. I don't know what thermal losses you have on your DHW pipework but most people shower at 38-39 degrees. 60°C: Can cause third-degree burns in one second 55°C: Can cause third-degree burns in 10 seconds 50°C: Can cause third-degree burns in five minutes

[@elslopez]

@@UpsideDownFork The lowest I see the batteries drain on a zero solar day is about 40-50%. As for the water, the thermostatic valves pull it back down a bit, so all in all it just ends up lasting longer

[@pearbo1]

Been on agile since february but with the last few weeks being brutal I finally bottled it and moved to octopus go. I feel i might reget this decision over the next month.

[@trailblazer7108]

Would love to hear how you get on

[@UpsideDownFork]

Maybe! Sometimes you have to take the rough with the smooth.

[@itsmrfish1]

Snap!!! I’ve swapped on Tuesday

[@xlerb_again_to_music7908]

I'm Agile import and fixed export on top of the old FiT payments. Thinking of going Economy 7 as my loads are getting high overnight (room heating, no EV yet)...

[@UpsideDownFork]

Let me know how it goes for you if you do make the change.

[@justinhumphreys5230]

your videos are excellent - can you do one on the actual kw consumption and how to run efficiently - wondering what is a reasonable amount of consumption for ASHP - can I trust the figures on Bosch display? might ne intetresting looking at items within a house thta consume a lot althought nothing cosumes more than a heat pump I am guessing

[@UpsideDownFork]

Hello, here's my consumption from last winter if that helps. kzbin.info/www/bejne/fX6VfnaXjt6Ufqc

[@steveyoung8376]

is you had a battery you could export at a high rate

[@UpsideDownFork]

@@steveyoung8376 👍

[@Pgutube]

Hi. Great vid. I'm getting the feeling more and more that a cheap, safe, cost effective battery is the way to go here. No need for all the bells and whistles. Pylontech Vs Tesla sort of think. How about a theoretical ROI video on a few battery options linked to your system and usage. Purely financial but you can mention the pros and cons of weather detection, ups etc etc I'm starting to think I obvs don't want something that will go up in flames but don't need the bells and whistles of a £10k battery. Others might....

[@Pgutube]

Fogstar?

[@UpsideDownFork]

Yes, the best ROI is definitely by keeping the outlay as low as possible like a fogstar. I've been working on a video for some time to cover this by using my own data. It's complicated and my spreadsheet is a mess but i'm trying my best to clean it up and simplify the findings to appeal to a broad audience.

[@robinbennett5994]

Have you modelled how much you could save with small battery that would avoid having to import power during the agile peak period? Do you turn your heating off during the peak period?

[@UpsideDownFork]

Yes and yes. The savings of peak rate by having a ~5kWh battery are very low and would effectively never pay for itself in financial terms. My spreadsheet is a total mess but i'm going to try and clear it up and make it presentable for a future video.

[@Biggest-dh1vr]

​@@UpsideDownForkwith a 5kWh battery, PV, EV and heat pump, Agile is the best for me. I've not done the calculation of what I could save if I upsized the battery, and if it is worthwhile.

[@nextgensolopreneur]

How far in advance do you know when the prices will be low? To allow for planning/timing.

[@UpsideDownFork]

4pm the day before. Not long enough for many people. The trends are clear though and you would drive yourself crazy if you attempted to micromanage everything. I just avoid what I can 4-7pm and otherwise live my life.

[@Biggest-dh1vr]

​@@UpsideDownFork how do you choose to be informed of overnight drops?

[@UpsideDownFork]

@@Biggest-dh1vr The octopus compare app sends me push notifications.

[@KavanOBrien]

How many tariffs are there with Octopus and why , you have 22 solar panels and no batteries at all ok , it does make sense rather than paying out for a battery but as long as you get paid for exporting,

[@UpsideDownFork]

Octopus energy has seemingly endless tariffs available for lots of very niche circumstances. I'm sure everyone can find one to suit them.

[@KavanOBrien]

@@UpsideDownFork seems unnecessarily to have so many are they not making it far too complicated not only for themselves but customers also , somewhat strange they’re trying to make the heat pumps more simple yet tariff not so , as said before common sense is definitely becoming less common.

[@UpsideDownFork]

@@KavanOBrien On their side it's easy because of their kraken backbone, the technology does everything simply. For the customer side, I agree. It would be much better if they had just 5 tariffs and that would cover 99% of people and how they want to consume energy.

[@KavanOBrien]

@@UpsideDownFork sounds like they have more than five then = how many to they actually have = do they even know the answer.

[@robertsprigge5535]

@@KavanOBrien It could be that they are spraying the market with tariffs to see which are the most popular, so as to remove the least popular. Currently, as of this week, there is still only one battery provider that can handle the 'Virtual power plant' concept used by the 'Intelligent' tariffs.

[@robin5215]

battery storage is the way to go, in winter solar generation is low and with cheap rate tariffs you could charge the batteries.... no brainer👍

[@UpsideDownFork]

Batteries have the advantage for a couple of months that's for sure. But over the course of a whole year...i'm not so sure they are as good an investment as panels.

[@robin5215]

@@UpsideDownFork we have the old feed in tariff (just under 70p) and we generate between 3300 and 3500 kwh a year, last year we had another 4.4kwh of solar added with 20kwh's of batteries, we don't chase the smart tariffs because we are net off grid, we still have the boiler which is on from October till mid March, the solar diverter warms our water during the better months, the aim of the project we started in 2010 we to reduce our usage from the grid..loft insulation 400mm and we've had cavity wall insulation and all lighting is LED's and it helps being in a detached bungalow.. keep up the great channel it's educating the island

[@UpsideDownFork]

@@robin5215 Sounds great. Thanks for the support!

[@FRZ5951]

Thanks

[@UpsideDownFork]

You're welcome.

[@trailblazer7108]

Thanks for making this video. I had been wondering about your tariff. My EV needs to be charged every day, I suppose Agile wouldn’t make sense, right?

[@UpsideDownFork]

Broadly speaking, if you are charging a car every day, you probably need to be on Go or Intelligent Go.

[@trailblazer7108]

@@UpsideDownFork it’s a tiny battery that only last about 20 miles, that’s why it needs to charged everyday..

[@Biggest-dh1vr]

​@@trailblazer7108 so, 20 miles might be 5kWh? Tim and Kat's video mostly suggests EV owners go EV tariff unless they have large solar, battery or heat pump that might otherwise dominate (see their new video today). His options don't include the riskier Agile or Tracker, which I think are good for those with all-day use (e.g. heat pumps or those at home).

[@nolandan1]

haven't had a chance to watch the video yet - but my agile experience has not been great for a while. I think the multipliers on top of the wholesale rate are high. what I find hard to accept is that the best IOG prices are SO low compared to the best agile rates. This implies that EITHER Octopus would be losing money on every IOG customer (as some kind of loss leader) or that the Agile multipliers are too high. Maybe a 3rd option is that Octopus are somehow getting cheap energy from an energy source that's not priced the same as the wholesale rates. another aspect of the agile pricing is that the agile export prices are typically rubbish, making it better to be on a fixed export rate which is almost always higher than the agile export. If the Octopus spread (buy/sell) was smaller, then the agile pricing would be better. My personal opinion is that judicious use of an agile-like pricing structure SHOULD be the most economical way to buy/sell electricity. Any fixed pricing scheme (like IOG or Flexible) HAS to have some contingency for the energy supplier to cover the risk of the wholesale prices rising - in other words, the fixed pricing scheme is a bet by the energy company that they can provide electricity for a given price for a given time period. Whereas the agile structure doesn't need to provide this contingency/risk mitigation, because every half hour the customer pays a spread on the actual wholesale price. So, I'm convinced that the multiplier for agile is too high.

[@nolandan1]

an example of this is that the current wholesale rate is £117.33/MWh, which is 11.733p/kWh - and yet I'm paying 22.6p/kWh at the moment. Why so high?

[@UpsideDownFork]

Good points!

[@Glyn001]

👍👍👍

[@UpsideDownFork]

Thanks for your support ☺️

[@mojonojo3]

Youve neglected the cost of your time to mange the system

[@UpsideDownFork]

True in theory. In practise, I only check the rates on the weekend to charge the car. Everything else is either automated, like the heat pump or appliances we start on timers overnight, this takes no longer than starting the appliance instantly.

[@TheBadoctopus]

And it's a fun hobby, right? So all good

[@ManChickin]

Unless you have a sigenstore battery.. click and forget A.I for agile. Seriously impressed

[@shaunkemp7908]

@@ManChickin I have sigenstore- does it automatically charge at the cheapest times on Agile ?

[@ManChickin]

@shaunkemp7908 yes and the latest update shows you the A.Is plan for the day and what it wants to do

[@andyholmes999]

Stop messing around and buy a big battery ;)

[@UpsideDownFork]

Thanks. I can't ruin my year long experiment just yet! Once we hit 2025 then we'll seriously look at batteries and we will have an awesome data set to analyse the sweet spot of capacity and avoid diminishing returns.

[@alexanderlloyd9487]

Do you have to jump all over the place showing your graphics, you don't stop long enough to take anything in totally totally pointless and i find it nauseous

[@UpsideDownFork]

Apologies. I'll consider that in the future. Hopefully you manage to pause the sections that you need to digest further.

[@alexanderlloyd9487]

Do you have to jump all over the place showing your graphics, you don't stop long enough to take anything in totally totally pointless and i find it nauseous

[@UpsideDownFork]

Apologies. I'll consider that in the future. Hopefully you manage to pause the sections that you need to digest further.

[@alexanderlloyd9487]

@UpsideDownFork thanks for the prompt reply 👍 it did get a bit better later on in the video (podcast cast !🤔 ) but right at the start, it was going too fast for my arthritic fingers to pause ; anyway 👍 keep it up.