Off To A Rough Start! - Hidden Defects In This Engine Uncovered And Machining Oversights Abound

[@MrBlackbutang]

Chrysler pride 😮 sweeeeeet

[@crautoguy8384]

Sometimes I have engine blocks when doing headgaskets that have pits should be resurfaced but if you use some poxy or JB Weld get it to stick real good and sand it down flat for your gasket seal it has nowhere to go I've done that a bunch of times had no issues

[@donaldhalls2189]

It's bad luck, them missing the champher, but at least you were able to show us thing's to watch out for and why we need to inspect, thanks for sharing, all the best to yous and your loved ones

[@glynnsears466]

I built my own four barrel intake manifold. It was a beast contacted Clifford research with the engine designed. They fitted a custom cam for me, 390 4305,5 45 x 555 lift the springs I had seated in the head we’re good for 600 lift.

[@edge2sword186]

We used to bore them and file the bores by hand for a chamfer . The factory would braze those spots as long as they weren't high stress areas .

[@mschiffel1]

You can do two things with this block. A. you can mig weld it and grind it flat, or B. you can ignore it, cross your fingers and send it. I would give the mig welding a shot like you did with the 361 block. Countersink the bolt holes yourself. Very easy DIY. You got this!

[@OldBeaterGarage]

I'm so thankful my machine shop not only does grade A work but the turn around is lightning fast. If I waited months and had to bring it back I'd be P!$$3D. Your shop is pretty high profile not only you but those TV guys down the street use them all the time too.

[@pc37185]

It’s amazing how similar aspects of working on vehicles is to working on any relationship. “Looks good on the outside but never know what is under the surface”

[@thewholls7176]

If they uncovered those inclusions in the block I would have thought they might of got on the phone and had a chat to you maybe its possible to drop a bit of welding there and machine it up nicely. Or give you the option if you want to continue…..

[@termonostruman]

evenflow chanel

[@AtZero138]

When reality Strikes with our Uncle Tony.. Always keeping it Real .

[@dastrayer63]

Even the best machine is run by a human, like me.

[@MrMark1325]

I had a 360 block decked bored etc. Assembled the engine had great oil pressure on the a drill. During break in oil pressure would drop to almost 0. About 25 psi at high rpm. Hmm. After a week of messing around found that one of of the cam journals had a crack and was losing a massive amount of oil.

[@MrJohnnyDistortion]

🤦🏻‍♂️

[@edfrawley4356]

A lot of strange things can happen while casting. Once had a rail car come into the shop with a broken coupler. Now couplers are cast steel not cast iron but this one had a large inclusion in the form of a crumpled up piece of stainless sheet metal which never got hot enough to melt during the casting process. It was a relatively new coupler but couldn't take the day to day stresses of holding a train together with that large inclusion.

[@WiSeNhEiMeR-1369]

HOWdy U-T-G, ... Slant-6 "defects" & "OVER-sights" from the Machine-Shop ... Thanks COOP the WiSeNhEiMeR from Richmond, INDIANA ...

[@dannyskaggs6587]

Your machine shop should have told you about that

[@rescuedandrestoredgarage]

People can forget or just not know, and if the shop is good, they will fix the issue. Cuz like you said a good shop is hard to find.

[@johndoe43]

Had a guy insist on cutting the deck on a Chevy 402 I was having done. It didn't need it so I said no. He wouldn't do the motor without it. So I argued but finally gave in. Put it together and it pumped antifreeze out the tail pipe on drivers side. Tried everything and couldn't find the problem. Finally found it. His oh so great cut had a low spot between first and second cylinder. I get sick at the thought of decking a block.

[@glynnsears466]

In-line engines love weber carburetors there’s a guy from Australia. He builds E hemi Chrysler in-line six cylinders naturally aspirated puts out over 400 hp and nearly 500 foot pounds of torque.

[@elmerfudpucker3204]

I agree that the shop should have chamfered the head bolt bosses, and they should have called when they uncovered those casting defects. My guess is that they bored the cylinders first, and then decked it. When the defects appeared, they were already at the end of machining, so they wanted their time and labor for it, regardless. Keeping you in the dark of it though, wasn't the thing to do.

[@allhailinternalcombustion]

That should have been a phone call and a "what do you want us to do" conversation.

[@MrTheHillfolk]

@@allhailinternalcombustion I'm only 1:35 in but right now id say I'm not using that shop again.

[@crautoguy8384]

I'm not a machinist but usually they square the block from a surface deck in Parallel from the mains and the cylinders then they use The machine deck surface to square the boring machine I could be wrong and I know you could do it multiple ways But that's how my machine is says he does it Because if I was doing the machine work and I started taking material off the deck hive and ran into it inclusion I would call the customer Before going any further

[@05glisedan]

About 2 months ago I got a block machined (VW awp). I never thought to check the block. Gonna check first thing in the morning. Thanks for the info. Keep up the great work. Looking forward to the next episode.

[@MrTheHillfolk]

Love some VR6 action 😁 Haha you reminded me I need to hear some wookies tonight. I'm building a Smyth Ute from a Mk4 vr6 Jetta and I've been at it for 3yrs now and closing in for completion this spring. It runs right now,I think I need to hear some vr noise to keep me inspired.

[@guyjordan8201]

Seems like if they bored the cylinders first before surfacing the block so they didn’t follow good procedures. I appreciate the lesson in due diligence, and you need to choose the people you work with not necessarily our gut reaction, but if this is not the time to look for a new shop please tell us why. I think they should have let you know when they found flaws in the block.

[@jhoncho4x4]

Worked in Navistar Indy engine casting plant and there was literal piles of engine blocks sitting next to melting pots for remelt. Various states of machining completed and then rejected. I couldn't see anything wrong with them, except rust from rain; they was lined up out the doors.

[@225supersix1977]

I found something about that on the internet, for example it is said that the thickness of the casting of the GM blocks from 1981 were thinner, apart from that, the casting of the Oldsmobile 403 blocks, in which General Motors indicated do not bore the cylinders beyond 0.030" because the walls were thin.

[@brucedragich1316]

Small block 400 also, no water jackets on thinner walls

[@berniebass3575]

I bought a motor, didn't know it had a hole in one cyl, rats! found out when l put water in, took it out had a sleeve installed running ever since. Good luck ✌️

[@allanfulton7569]

I don't know if I would use that machine shop again. That machinist should have shown you what was wrong on the block.

[@sometimesleela5947]

Good machine shops are impossible to find. You either get kids who have good hearts but no experience, or old timers that know their shit but get pissy when you want things done a different way from theirs.

[@edwardkodai1319]

Absolutely right

[@MrJohnnyDistortion]

​@@sometimesleela5947 Yea, pissy.

[@DoktorJeep]

I had an inline 6 Chevy that was cracked in 7 places. The stalagmites - or stalagtites - of oil and coolant managed to seal the block over time.

[@unclebob7937]

The old 'Stovebolt' is hard to kill LOL

[@retiredtim]

i would be a bit worried about the super shiny spots because around sand inclusions are hard spots that show up before you break thru

[@orig66Super]

Time for a 19 hour straight chamferathon!

[@413x398]

Seems to me you could take a small burr and smooth out the occlusions to hedge your bet against fractures. ?

[@roadrunner4404]

Bore out the cylinders n drop in siamese sleeves to use that stash of 318 pistons. Love the channel

[@jeremyhanna3852]

As far as the machine shop goes "A man should not be judged by the mistakes he makes in life, But the devotion he puts fourth to fix them." My grandpa wrote that quote I have it tattooed on my arm I live my life by it love you grandpa hope your living it up in heaven I hope cars go to heaven also and your rolling your drop top 64 impala with gram and Josh

[@motov8-garage832]

If only that was true in the workplace. At work its "they dont remember the many things you do right".."they only remember that thing you did wrong" My boss told us that several times over the years.

[@donutdan1508]

My grandfather was Chinese. He had a saying "Man who pat Fang Fang on kitty, sure to be removed from committee." It took 30 years but I finally figured out what he meant. ✌😁🍩

[@2HacksGarage]

Tony. That cone works well, but the Mandrel is expensive. I just got one and it does work well.

[@chrisluquette1615]

Tony, that spot at the cylinder looks like it is at a water jacket. That said, I think it rusted at that spot instead of an inclusion at the casting event. I would be more afraid of water getting past that rust spot getting into the cylinder and/or outside the head. I don't know if welding that up would work so that there is more surface for the head gasket to seal on.

[@alanmeyers3957]

It’s clearly an inclusion.

[@MikeBrown-ii3pt]

I caught the ugly head bolt holes and non chamfered cylinder bores right away. The occlusions were tougher to spot.

[@MH-53E]

I know Tony knows this but, if you could properly x-ray these blocks you would find occlusions all thru these old blocks. It's all about where they are. When they get enough rejected blocks, they are melted down and recast if practical.

[@kevinmcguire3715]

I took on a rebuild of a man's 1956 354 hemi boat engine. It was already .060 over .The shop owner told me to order .090 over pistons as he said these old hemi's have a lot o'meat around the bores and he bored for them and got me on the Horn. "We hit water on all of them .I'll sleave it and that will fix it. Well ,they don't put rust inhibitor in Lake Nacimiento and after installing 6 sleaves the last 2 holes had insuffciant iron to hold them. He graciously ate the sleaves and machine work as I brought him lot's of work then in the late 70's, I found a 55 331 block cheap and the boat guy was quite pleased at how it "revved up like an electric motor".with a new Isky solid lifter cam , 10.00 pistons from Jahns. and a nice balance job. Performance Machine San Luis Obispo, California

[@JimNapaCA]

Your taking it back they can fix the head bolts too!

[@mrkultra1655]

Great tips, thanks Tony

[@JSki-kb8vf]

...and...I would use o rings copper gasket and head studs...seeing as you'll be adding a considerable amount of cylinder pressure...

[@juiceloanjimmy5427]

It’ll be fine!

[@christiannelson7899]

Would it be worthwhile to take a die grinder to those casting flaws to smooth any sharp edges out to prevent cracking, or is it best to leave them alone?

[@brucedragich1316]

I would work a bevel edge on those areas to help it from cranking also

[@kaboom4679]

The machinist was just distracted by the singing frog that leaped from the chasm he had just opened in the engine block .

[@sometimesleela5947]

Awesome reference

[@JrGoonior]

Michigan J. Frog reference! NICE!

[@tdkrei]

Thanks Tony. I would bring that block back and let them finish the job, 2 things that shouldn'omitted

[@myron-ut2nf]

Could you fill with JB weld to add strength? Would probably be better than left like that.

[@glynnsears466]

I was displeased with the full barrel so I went with triple weber 48 that woke it up

[@bcbloc02]

Did you tell them not to hone it? I generally chamfer after honing when I machine blocks so if that step was skipped likely it just never got to the guy that does that part. If they were supposed to do a full block prep then I would say they failed.

[@glynnsears466]

I found aka a yellow block has 3 side Welch plugs meaning it is a industrial engine that probably come out of a futon 2 1/2 ton truck which is half nickel con tent. I bought it 100 over called Wise Cole to bill me pistons and like I said I take it deep to get a zero deck eyes on the Pistons then I mailed ahead 100 thousandths so I was probably running 11 maybe just a touch over to one compression ratio

[@davidwood1923]

I Love You'r Passion and Videos... Thanks for Sharing

[@minnesotatomcat]

I watched a video recently on the Cummins blocks, I can’t remember the year range but pretty recent. Anyways apparently all the blocks weren’t made in the same place, rather like 3 different foundries and in one of the places something happened and the blocks were all very thin in one particular place and nearly all of those blocks ended up cracking and leaking coolant right out the side of the block.

[@Insomniac2234]

You’re talking about the 53 code cummins 12 valve blocks im pretty sure

[@minnesotatomcat]

@@Insomniac2234 no it wasn’t a 12 valve, 6.7 era but I can’t remember the years, mid teens I think. I gotta find that video and rewatch it now 🤣

[@bcbloc02]

@@Insomniac2234 53block was early 24V I think I have seen one 12V with one but I kind of think maybe it had something happen and it got a replacement block under warranty that was a 53.

[@bunning63]

Think they're called 'inclusions' Rover had an interesting solution with their K series making them as light as possible for Lotus to avoid inclusions they cast the blocks by pouring from the bottom using pressure to push the material and any defect upwards, hence no inclusions and an extra light block.

[@yobentley7274]

Try your cast iron welding trick on the inclusions??

[@richardross7219]

What year is the block. Around 1968 Detroit had a lot of trouble with their cast iron(so did Volvo). I remember many Chevy 307s being junked because the blocks were bad and couldn't be salvaged. I salvaged the cranks and pistons from several of them. You never know if the new guy in the machine shop was given your engine. Good video.

[@jamest.5001]

I think I'd grind that one inclusion out, the rough edges will possibly grow cracks, or maybe deck it another .020" or so, depending on how deep it is, you could drill it out and tap it, put a bolt in it, grind it flush, then re drill the water passage that supposed to be there! If it was caught before machining, maybe brase the one close to the bore, then deck it smooth

[@tedjones450]

Al got a job at the machine shop and he was the one doing the machining on Tony's block. That's the only way that this would happen :)

[@MiamiZombie2012]

I found what look like chipping at the bottom of one of my cylinder. I checked the stroke and the rings don't come near it. Took a carbide burr to it and chamfered it. Looked to me like a crack starting, just seems like an odd place for a crack.

[@felzke440]

Did they use a torque plate when they bored those cylinders? Cutting 1/10 inch should give you pretty respectable compression especially with a steel head gasket... if you can find one.

[@michaelstrafello7346]

My experience with a machine shop, Murfreesboro was they board my 360 60 over and machine the it was supposed to be 10 10 six months later when I finally decided to install the bearings and the crank woman behold it wouldn't spin over because they only machine the rod journals and just assumed it was 10:10 when it was actually 10 rods standard mains yes never assume anything

[@jamest.5001]

It can cut into the piston skirt also, if the sharp edges aren't taken off before installing the piston, I think they just got a head of their self, miscommunication or something!

[@timmiller260]

The pros are Goin the kids have started try too take hold i had a shop given my heads back and not guides needed them but back they went.

[@pauberrymon5892]

Details will always bite you in the arse eventually lol, good catch UncleTony.

[@harleykdognova4226]

Thanks for the info . I’m about to build one and will look at that stuff … great channel love the information 👍

[@markanderson2145]

You Sir are Golden. Wisdom at its Best. Bless you Sir.

[@outlaw565]

Damn, good tips, thanks!

[@u121921]

Rout a burr is the tool you need . just a handle with replaceable carbide blades that lets you break the corners and remove as much sharp metal adge as you want . They were 5 bucks from the 70s thru the turn of the century , probably double that now

[@u121921]

sorry , triple that from Grainger or MSC but still the same simple tool I love

[@mohanperformance.enginerd.1308]

If its a high dollar build or something you expect reliabillity from. I would consider 6 ductile sleeves. Then you know what you have. The chamfers need to be done. I request a minimum bore chamfer on my stuff. Just enough to remove any ridge or hot spot. No more. I think from a high performance point of veiw. A chamfer is a deficit.

[@BurchellAtTheWharf]

After seeing the bubbles in the casting, I would strongly think about over boring for sleeves

[@jonahhuff184]

If you don't mind me asking, what was the cost to get the block bored and decked? I've got a toyota 22r I will rebuild, I'm just figuring out my budget.

[@chuckaustin3832]

Thanks UT.

[@geoffberry1874]

Just a question, would you drill or clean up those inclusions in a way to relief them, ?

[@floivanus]

Man, has Shackletts gone downhill? TN and machineshop and that’s what I think of

[@ProblemChild-xk7ix]

Do you fill those voids with something?

[@Boatsandhotrods]

You had damn near 1/8 cut off the top. They probably assumed you would fill the block lol

[@falconmotorsports8323]

Tool and die machinist here and nothing leaves my hands with sharp edges period and all holes are chamfered…it aids in tapping as well

[@Bikerbob59]

Thanks Tony now I have more things to obsess about when I put an engine together.

[@joe-hp4nk]

After the video on straight sixes, why would any one bother with a slant six?

[@danielstickney2400]

"Chamfers are what separates us from the animals." -Quinn Dunki

[@boilerroomed3682]

Chamfered or Beveled? Questions, questions!.....

[@thomasmitchell6921]

Show us after the chamfering

[@sccarguy8242]

Engine blocks are like a box of chocolates… you never know what your gonna get.

[@allhailinternalcombustion]

Mama always said don't eat engine blocks.........

[@MrTheHillfolk]

Heh, even if it was a runner there can still be issues you find, that's not even a guarantee.

[@craigcontofalsky4387]

Don't ever have it decked either! LoL! Just buy pistons with a higher dome and maybe take. .010" off the deck if you must.

[@donaldhill2775]

You could chamfer the bolt holes with a sharp drill bit and as someone else mentioned file the chamfer on the bores by hand, fill that hole up with some plastic metal, it’ll be lovely, your machinist obviously didn’t point out this problem to you which is unfortunate at best ? If I had another 3 of those blocks laying around I’d be tempted to cut my losses and choose again, 🤣 could top up with a worse one, bloody lottery ain’t it ! All best to you 👍

[@floivanus]

Don’t chamfer with a drill, chamfer on a 60 degree thread needs to be 60 degrees not 125, use a single flute chamfer cutter

[@donaldhill2775]

@@floivanus Thanks princess 🙏 is that metric or imperial degrees ? 😊

[@shotsrodder]

Great tips as usual 😎👍

[@victormiranda9163]

'tis proper machine work. all edged must be chamfered... I think that shop failed to do right...

[@jimamizzi1]

I’m surprised they didn’t call you, hey tony it needs an extra 50 thou to clean it up

[@glynnsears466]

I washed all your videos, and I try to even text to you when you was online, but my phone got Jenkee, so I never could talk to you

[@greggc8088]

Sure does look like more than .001 cut off to reveal that. If that defect laid only .001 below the machined surface, it shouldn't matter much but it just doesn't seem likely. Maybe .010. Maybe.

[@UncleTonysGarage]

We took .100 off

[@greggc8088]

@@UncleTonysGarage Wow!

[@dablakh0l193]

What about reboring it larger to accommodate sleeves. That way the stress can be isolated from the casting?

[@UncleTonysGarage]

Would weaken the deck too much

[@jaba512]

Those modern ford ecoboost engines have less gasket next to the cylinder than that defective spot...

[@mitch_sorenstein]

i want to make a cordless drill with razor blades on it like a windmill but with danger but my mom won't let me so im mad at her

[@bigjaz8768]

Damn my mum told me that I can't put 12 inch circular saw blade on my grinder. I'm pissed off with her too.

[@darrenbealeofficial]

Pressue test the block before you invest more $$ into it.

[@shadowpatriot1948]

Gee Uncle Tony...is this going to be a slant project that actually gets finished or is it just going to get started and then sit in the corner like Plan Z?

[@vintage76vipergreenBeetle]

Great info.👍

[@yurimodin7333]

possibly have that cylinder next to the flaw sleeved ?

[@topgunexcel]

Fill it with Devcon titanium You've got nothing to lose by trying

[@MrMango222au]

nitrous motor

[@Rorschach1024]

Tony I think you mean INclusion, not OCClusion....

[@simoncochran9824]

I didn’t know it had blocked arteries

[@scottymoondogjakubin4766]

All the worst inline 6's ive ever owned were 225 's ! Let alone there ignition systems !

[@sbf_fox2434]

How timely. Scott at Cold War Motors just had a video on chamfering the bored sleeve he had installed in a 1937 Chevy 6 cylinder. The agents used a die grinder to perform the task. The boys at Strongs Garage offered to chamfer it for him after they used the in-car boring apparatus, but he turned it down.

[@timothykeith1367]

Reminds me that I need to see a dentist