OLD GOOD NEW BAD ft.

[@mooks500]

Please make these guys permanent guests.

[@BurtKocain]

Nate said once that he wanted someone to point out when he smacks his lips, so here's the official BGE lip-smack counter for this upload with timestamps: 1:28, 3:24, 4:53, 6:50, 8:07, 8:10, 9:16, 9:31, 13:45, 14:06, 15:20, 15:50, 15:57, 21:40, 35:41, 37:25, 37:46, 38:02, 38:36, 39:12, 40:48, 41:00, 41:16, 41:35, 42:17, 48:10, 48:21, 48:40, 52:34, 52:59, 53:25, 53:53, 54:29, 58:34, 1:04:06, 1:06:09, 1:06:13, 1:08:11, 1:09:02, 1:11:47, 1:12:11, 1:13:20, 1:16:19, 1:16:32, 1:16:35, 1:26:42, 1:28:41, 1:40:06, 1:48:48, 1:59:38, 2:01:37, 2:02:12, 2:02:45, 2:06:18, 2:10:38, 2:22:10, 2:22:14, 2:22:26, 2:22:56, 2:28:55, 2:35:01, 2:35:36, 2:35:45, 2:36:25, 2:38:51, 2:39:16, 2:49:13, 2:52:50, 2:53:23, 2:53:44, 2:54:37, 2:59:47, 3:00:08, 3:00:44. I may have missed some, or be a second out on a few, but I hope it's helpful info to you all!🤠

[@dinglepuss8594]

extremely based

[@TheBjmac7]

Your service has not gone unappreciated, thank you for your contributions.

[@doxiedomian]

The troops should salute to you

[@ATG913]

🥇

[@blacksabbath7243]

Nice timing for BGE to come back right now to fully take advantage of the pcp power vacuum

[@sambaroglio1234]

Nate I'm glad you're still making stuff. I may have avoided your channel for a while, but that doesn't mean I don't like you. I was just waiting for the right time.

[@ArtiphTD]

Melo and Cybershell are two of my favorite dudes and I love the chemistry - would love if they became permanent or at least more regular fixtures!

[@RandoomDude]

1:33:08 Gainax in fact, does not exist anymore, Anno cleaned up the legal mess it was in and now owns the right to the name Gainax himself but everything else is gone, that was a couple years ago

[@lefthand9672]

RUNNING SHINE is always a plus ➕

[@BagofSchmidt]

didnt expect to ever see a podcast with these four people. love to see it

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Ha the crossover you never expected, but absolutely a fun one (at least for me)

[@n2oshotandironman]

This is the best podcast episode I've ever listened to. Bring Mark on more. TEU is cash.

[@TheElectricUnderground]

I'm always down to return :-D

[@ILoveAsuka]

electric underground is a great channel please have him on more

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Thank you very much my dude!

[@TJK10]

We’re back, baby.

[@emmanuelosorio6676]

Its good to see Nate doing a podcasts again the PCP died so that talking pirates and gamerzone can live

[@Rannos22]

Talking pirates needs some more autistic guests that match Nate's energy like with this podcast

[@kevindouglas7025]

It has finally returned

[@Wrekkshoppe]

THE ELECTRIC UNDERGROUND!! FUCK YEAAAAH!!

[@TheElectricUnderground]

:-D

[@RewdanSprites]

@@TheElectricUnderground Hey! Thanks for helping me discover another awesome channel 😎

[@XxjeffersonDkidxX]

Is this art? It depends. Did I like it? If I liked it, then yes, it is art. If I didn't, then it's not art.

[@Pyromania-ew8jp]

Electric underground was probably the best choice for a topic like this. Love that channel, some of the best game discussion on youtube

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Thank you very much my dude!

[@LilypadOW]

16:16 I found it to be really interesting that in my mmo FFXIV, which is generally most beloved for its social features and story, up to 10% of active players cleared the ultimate raids, the by far hardest content in the game. those are 8-person 20 minute fights you work on for months yet somehow they are not only popular but people actually manage to beat them! blew me away when I saw those stats edit: researched on this and it was stats for people who cleared the latest raidtier on the second highest difficulty and then went for and finished the hardest.

[@Mingodough]

2:35:15 YES people get so mad when I say I love the og phantasy star series because it had the balls to end and making a phantasy star 5 would ruin it. People don’t see why that’s a terrible idea at all

[@blakechildress944]

Electric Underground was a really great guest on this podcast. This might be you guy's most engaging episode so far! I love how passionate and knowledgeable about video games everyone is in this episode.

[@circlesoundz]

Regarding remakes, the craziest thing to me is the positive reception the MGS3 remake is getting. Everyone was pissed at Konami for getting rid of Kojima, and now people are fine with them remaking one of his games? Also, they announced a re-release of MGS3 alongside the remake which makes it even more unnecessary.

[@gloam2428]

I just don’t get it either. I guess people really will stomach and rationalize anything if it means a shiny new toy they want

[@sevennights6377]

I really like you guys, but I don't know why I feel like discussion of video games on this channel hasn't evolved at all it feels like. Why are we still discussing "Are day 1 patches bad?" "Is releasing an unfinished product more acceptable because you can patch it?" "Doesn't it suck that you have to buy dlc of stuff that should be in the base game?". Same thing with topics like how game mechanics add to the narrative etc. I've taken multiple classes in college about how video games are art and the social studies of gamers, ya know? This stuff has fully penetrated gamer culture and while I understand the frustration of people who don't see games as art, I also find it extremely tedious to retread these ideas over and over. Maybe that's kinda something you have to do to start a conversation though, I suppose. I tried to watch Electric Underground's video on re4make but similarly I couldn't really stand the first 5+ minutes of "people think that old games are pointless and only new ones are worth thinking about because they improve on them" because it's such a ridiculous thing that I feel like anyone you would have an actual conversation of this stuff with wouldn't think. I know game reviewers are dumb man, but this isn't 2016 anymore this has been talked to death. I also think that leading a review with such an obvious thing and treating it as a point that we need convincing of makes me want to watch the video less because it feels like you're bending my arm backwards to agree with you from the onset if I'm onboard with this very obvious first part. Something about it just rubs me the wrong way.

[@iroquoispliskin9833]

Yeah, this podcast felt more or less like an audio version of another /v/ thread on this topic but without the slurs. Maybe bringing someone who actually believes “old bad, new good” on the pod could’ve led to some interesting discussion, but it’s probably hard to find someone holding that opinion and willing to argue that’s not an obvious shill. Gamer commiseration is just tiresome at this point. Really enjoyed the episode btw :)

[@TheElectricUnderground]

hey my dude, you may feel the attitude that newer games are superior to older games is a ridiculous attitude (which it is), but it's also a very real sentiment. As I demonstrate at the start of my vid when I am discussing remake culture, a large group of reviews said, in no uncertain terms, that the remake of resi 4 is superior to the original game. I then spent my review examining these claims, the basis of these claims, and then explaining why I disagree with them. Also I disagree with your critique that our conversation hasn't "evolved." These are the issues that the medium is currently facing, the issues are not only unresolved, but are accelerating. I'm not sure what you are being taught in college in multiple classes about video game critique, but I doubt it is beyond the scope of our conversation. You say the points I make in my resident evil 4 remake video are obvious, and yet it is the only video saying the points that are being said about the game versus the hundreds of other reviews that are all repeating the same lines about how much of a masterpiece it is over and over. You say my critique of the game is "ridiculous" because it doesn't line up with the average person's thoughts on resident evil 4 remake? So is that the function of the critique in your mind? Is that what they teach in college these days? that the job of the critic is to repeat points that are digestible to the average person's taste? Also how is my review both "obvious" and "ridiculous" at the same time? Of course it's "obvious" that remake culture exists and there is a bias towards new games due to economic incentives, but it's also "ridiculous" to point this out because the average person wouldn't agree? What is going on in college classes these days ha.

[@sevennights6377]

@@TheElectricUnderground Sorry if the college classes thing came off as like, a condesecending "I am so smart because college" thing, I meant it more as like that public consensus has moved on from some of these ideas, case in point that there are even classes where you can be taught by a 60+ year old lady that video games are art. Not that I'm so smart because I take these classes or whatever. I have an Accounting degree lol. I understand what you're saying here with like, "How can it be obvious but also clearly be a popular opinion?". And like, that's a really good point but at the same time I feel like you have to think of target audiences and stuff. If you're making analytical video essays and reviews, the people who want to watch your content are not the guys who play Call of Duty and think "they're just games, man". They're probably people who want to see the discussion furthered. I don't wanna watch a video about how stupid game reviewers are for very normie takes, I want to watch you dissect the game and it's hard for me to do that if it starts with a lot of preamble that I don't care about. I guess maybe I just shouldn't care about it that much but it rubbed me the wrong way fsr. I guess rallying against video game reviews just doesn't feel worthwhile to me because I don't even like, see them as real viewpoints by real people. Like it's just dudes who are paid to say nice things and play 5 hours of a game before writing the article. But upon further reflection it is probably the viewpoint of a larger part of the population than I'd like to admit.

[@catsoup9870]

It took me this long to finally finish this just cause of much I had to pause and mentally interject lmao. Do you have any particular videos / channels you consider to be a bit more interesting? Some of the recent stuff I watched that I would recommend would be Nerrel's "A Guide to The Last Jedi (for the Star Wars Fan Base)", Whitelight's "The Heights of Assassin's Creed - A Parkour Retrospective" and Neverknowsbest's "The Entire History of Video Games".

[@ekortsec]

All the Gridman stuff by Trigger has been great

[@42tai_]

Wow, another all-star cast. Truly bestman

[@lackryx4166]

Meeting of great minds

[@PreAlphaTonyC]

Pcp 2 finally, should've never ditched the topic format. That's where you guys started to lose your way. This was great.

[@SoShiBias]

What a surprise to see TheElectricUnderground here. More GAMERZONE plz.

[@SoftwareNeos]

What ive gotten from this: Casuals ruin everything

[@scouthatesrainbows]

Gaslight gatekeep girlboss

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Ha I wouldn't blame the casuals themselves as much as the insistence on pandering to their base appetites of media consumption. Appealing to casuals, but in a way that elevates their engagement in the medium I think is the better way to go :-)

[@dochalkos]

Final thoughts about critics being more important now than ever is echoed in Mathewmatosis's Meta Microvideos vid, thought he approaches it from the angle of needing "specialists" to keep older titles remembered as time moves on. Dug the discussion and it introduced me to Electric Underground, so thanks for that.

[@bee4210]

This podcast is very relevant after the Mario rpg remake announcement

[@RougeMephilesClone]

Took me two darn weeks to fully process that I'm subscribed to three of these guys' channels.

[@nemoguy]

Great episode!

[@blakechildress944]

This is you guy's most engaging episode of Gamer Zone to date.

[@sibbyeskie]

Mark is a rational guy with great insights. He lost his gig on NintendoLife because he basically refused to play the unofficial review game, which is making everything as surface level as possible to keep those units moving. A rare genuine dude who sticks to his guns.

[@chuunilord5619]

It truly is a shame that gacha is inherently such a horrendously terrible and exploitative monetization system because I've heard some games in that space being showered with heaps of praise for story or even gameplay in some rare cases that if these games werent associated with the worst monetization strategy ever theyd occupy a similar niche to serialized manga as long running experiences that could amount to something great in the long run

[@JayceCH.]

I can guarantee you that people praising the story in these games arent experienced veteran critiques. Ive played like FGO, Honkai, etc. through the majority of the main stories. They do not reach the same heights as single player video games' highs, not to mention not even at the level of movies, anime, or shows.

[@chuunilord5619]

@@JayceCH. No, obviously not, the need to sell characters bogs down anything they may want to do, but that doesn't mean the idea of having a game that has an extremely low barrier to entry (Just an okayish phone or a low end pc) and has updates regularly with new story and gameplay content is inherently worse because the examples there currently exist are bad

[@tigerfestivals5137]

The solution is just to resist the fomo and play them like a single player game. You can play all of the story content in Genshin and Honkai Impact 3rd without really interacting with the MMO lite and gacha aspects.

[@tigerfestivals5137]

The solution is just to resist the fomo and play them like a single player game. You can play all of the story content in Genshin and Honkai Impact 3rd without really interacting with the MMO lite and gacha aspects.

[@chuunilord5619]

@@tigerfestivals5137 If it was that easy to not get fomo'd these games wouldn't have whales, just because you're able to recognize your brain is being hacked to spend spend spend doesn't mean everyone is, not even a matter of intelligence either, just ignorance and having a more impulsive brain

[@CC-jo2ue]

What a great video i really hope we can get more of this type of indepth and expansive conversations on games or whatever else in the future .

[@viewtifuljoe99]

Shout-out to the Electric Underground for carrying the arcade game torch

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Thanks viewtiful! :-D

[@DreamManmns]

I wish someone loved me as much as Nate loved topics

[@cyberninjazero5659]

17:50 I thought so too but ELDEN RING has a clear rate of ~50% on Steam and it sold massively. I think the modern Gamer has schizotaste, they will buy and pay babyslop but also actually engage with difficulty. What does and doesn't capture the market is almost a complete mystery which means you can combine it with 1:58:00

[@guyoncouch8796]

Uh just checking the live achievements even Rani the most popular ending only has 27.2%, and I highly doubt most people got that on their first play through.

[@cyberninjazero5659]

@@guyoncouch8796 check Horah Loux percentage that's a more definitive "who beat the game"

[@guyoncouch8796]

​@@cyberninjazero5659 He's 40% and sure there's only Rag and the EB after him, but if people don't beat those they haven't really beat the full game. Granted it probably says more about the bosses.

[@cyberninjazero5659]

​​@@guyoncouch8796 The reason I use Horah Loux as a measure is that 1) he's all the way at the end 2) the boss(es) directly after him don't have their own trophies and 3) since the game has multiple endings with their own trophies you'd have to somehow calculate the number of people who got different endings while also subtracting New Game+ers who went for a different ending. Therefore it's not unreasonable to conclude that there is no significant (10%) drop off and the vast majority who beat Horah beat the bosses after

[@otto_jk]

@@cyberninjazero5659 I had 3 years between beating mergo and the moon presence in Bloodborne so I'm not sure that you can assume that there's not a drop off

[@LilypadOW]

i was starving so hard for bge that I started reading one piece

[@blur8163]

LETS GO NEW GAMER ZONE

[@skon7292]

Amazing podcast, gotta do more guys

[@stephenclark465]

I think part of gaming’s problem is that we identify what it is with the progress of technology. Like we were conditioned to believe that the leaps in technology were a core element of gaming when like all arts there is a point where creativity can flourish and what can be said is mostly possible. Gaming is interactive so you could argue that new technology enhances that capability, which is true, but it’s become apparent that there older games that shattered tech limits. Plus the returns and capability of new gens has waned due to the law of diminishing returns.

[@CopeAscetic]

Truly blessed to have this back. These should be the permanent guests as previously stated by multiple commenters

[@SamTheGumMan117]

This was so gamer baby really diving off the deep end

[@seacliff217]

I personally think turn-based JRPGs are fairly popular right now. My issue is the stagnation of the genre. For example, for at least two decades, most JRPG devs can't wrap their heads around what a "dungeon" is supposed to be. Many of them seem to only include them, and any non-boss encounters, out of obligation rather than a meaningful addition to the gameplay loop. I'm not saying I want every JRPG to be a dungeon crawler, but for any JRPG that doesn't want to lean in on them, to find an alternative that doesn't feel like a wasteful time sink.

[@kerthunk8517]

Super late, but DLC being on disc in MvC3 was just a nessecity of the nature of DLC in fighting games, and is still how fighting games operate, albeit with patches instead of being on disc/cartridge. Any fighting game with online will have the data for DLC characters in the game, because otherwise DLC owners would only be able to matchmake with other DLC owners. I remember that causing such a stink because it was still a pretty new concept at the time, especially with all the new players coming into modern fighting games because of the Marvel recognition.

[@hollowman7168]

Man, it would sure take a legend of wat some people may call heroes to keep the JRPG genre going .....

[@daveinthemicrowave]

Fantastic and thought provoking :)

[@BluShades]

This is a stacked line up. Electric underground got me into shmups

[@coolmedina117]

Running shine is so good

[@chasepalumbo2929]

Damn I just found this, goated collab

[@gg.no.re.]

BestGuyEver is great you should make him a permanent host

[@waypastlame]

Based as usual

[@graylightning4181]

I'm really glad to have a new BGE discussion on the main channel

[@SnakeJones11]

No Ben? Yes watch.

[@Confussed-Oddish]

As a cartoon Fan and new bad old good is just an objective fact.

[@Kira-ji2ft]

I'm a book fan and it's nigh impossible to find anything good that isn't a decade old, and most of what I read was made between fifty years and three millennia ago.

[@blakechildress944]

Please make Mello, Cybershell, and Electric Underground a reoccurring guest group.

[@evanever]

He truly is the Best Guy Ever™ Excited to listen to this one.

[@brudbrud9137]

Rip PCP eh

[@emmanuelosorio6676]

Was it really the PCP without Nate though?

[@feconisb.3067]

​@@emmanuelosorio6676 it was truly better off without him lol

[@Andrewexploded]

I need more runningshine in my life.

[@Matty-Boy]

Ah another installment of my favorite zone, the gamer zone. I think I need to go back and listen to the first half, bc someone said something really insightful offhandedly and two hours of conversation later I have cannae remember. I will add that I think Rogue-lites can scratch a similar itch to a lot of the older-school arcade games. High difficulty, high replayability, and shorter "playthrough", but with more modern incentives like constant progression through upgrades that can help you feel real girlboss as you go through.

[@patrickbasedman270]

Hey Nate you ever consider doing this as a Livestream with these guys?

[@EliahNebb]

I don't quite get this subject but this is fun to listen to

[@makkusuunfilwin1852]

20:44 Nate just had a flashback, lol.

[@blakechildress944]

1:10:06 My favorite part in the entire episode is the first hour and this Jarassic Park edit.

[@ATG913]

Good stuff. 👍

[@PS1APE]

Very surprised to see The Electric Underground on here, glad to see he's getting more attention!

[@ThaZapa]

You're easily my favorite gamer.

[@VenomSnakeMGS]

kino lineup of guests

[@malcolmlamb2191]

Chained Echoes. Rad "JRPG" made by a so gle German guy. Really well fleshed out. I'm liking it a lot

[@WhoopsProblems]

Holy shit best guy ever and running shine? My virginity got restored just to be emancipated immediately

[@SoShiBias]

Been awhile since a podcast being so engaging, as in my mind keeps getting challenged and questioned. So much so, the comment isn't even a suitable feature for me to share all of them. Please understand it's unfeasible. So I'd spare the time of pouring all my thoughts here and say, this is a full-course, great meal.

[@DaMan475]

When’s the GAMERZONE bonus video?

[@ArtiphTD]

Doilus Video**

[@manuelquintana3401]

Kino’s back on the menu

[@theninjararar]

I actually think the last of us 2 has very good gameplay for the most part, it's probably the best stealth to go loud game because there is no inherent emphasis on action or stealth, the level design is more complicated than the original which was already a very good attempt at making an open ended appearing linear game( it's very vertical which is always cool). I think the cover system being based on positioning rather than a button press works really well because it allows you to circle around cover and dodge in and out rather than being stuck to a wall. Also I played with the motion controls so I didn't really notice the gun sway that much cause I could always correct for it. everything else about it sucked though.

[@aemon5497]

hell yeah

[@Enol666]

HAIL THE ELECTRIC UNDERGROUND

[@AgusEP]

Man I forgot how good BGE was at analysis and taking in the little details that I often get passed on, glad to see that you are doing something new and not anime related

[@PabbyPabbles]

"NEO: the World Ends With You"

[@vazazell5967]

Last of Us 1 is incredibly deep in terms of resource management on harder mode.

[@necrospaci4835]

Bruh last of us was a good mix of cinematic and actual gameplay that was completely ruined by gay propaganda and lazy game design with a dogshit sequel.

[@okamiv5]

In regards to the greater importance of critics, RIP Totalbiscuit

[@EdgardR.]

1:25:28 that's false and I wonder who started that narrative

[@frogstrangler256]

good good bad bad

[@ethanb12007]

OLD NEW BAD GOOD

[@GrandChiefSmackaho]

I do have a weakness for good industry analysis

[@lostzephyr2191]

People need to stop treating "art" as though it's a designation of distinction or quality or value or anything at all. What has the art world considered "art" for the last hundred years? Urinals, shit on canvas, menstrual blood on canvas. Who cares if videogames and anime are art? Art sucks. Anime and videogames are better than art.

[@TheElectricUnderground]

I absolutely agree that "art" in the common way it is used now is complete BS. A lot of modern art is pure hustle and money laundering, no doubt about it. However, even though the concept of "art" has been abused a lot as of late, I think the concept itself is still very important to strive for and defend. In my mind, video games are absolutely a form of art, they are just a different expression because what makes games art (primary) is not the story, but instead the set of rules and laws that the programmers create to contain the gameplay. It's such a cool medium of art because you are building a structure of rules for the gameplay to exist within, but you are not defining everything that will happen exactly. And the reason why I think it's important to have this conversation about the artistic nature of video games is because otherwise they have no other purpose or view other than commercial profit. So if we do not look at video games as a form of art, then the only metric we can use to evaluate a game's merit is its sales and commercial viability.

[@Dmunster05]

Speaking of fangames Shout out to black souls that is a great jrpg seroes made by a hobbyist in rpgmaker, the sequel especially is some peak jrpg shit.

[@GwymGwom]

TOPICS GRAND RETURN!

[@Koolyaroo]

1:09:17 Saying that the Re remake 4 team didn't build up the talent to be able to make that game is so funny because a large majority of the team who made that game also worked on re2 remake back in 2019, in fact, those 2 games have the same director. Like Capcom is run pretty well nowadays so comparing them to square enix is just LOLLL. Idk it rlly just seems like Mark didn't know what he was talking about...

[@yungstarrod]

🤓🤓🤓

[@Koolyaroo]

@@yungstarrod true

[@donvhermit5803]

We got big loading screens 😎

[@mrm0nty550]

We're so fucking barack

[@joshherreramusic]

THE Running Shines, Cybershell and Electric Underground??? LFG 😎

[@ungabungus01]

Idk that I consider resident evil 4 so bad of a remake that it tarnishes the brand, I think Mark is alone to thing that extreme. It may be a worse game but it isn't extremely shit low effort making resident evil a bad franchise, that was resi 3 remake

[@wideclide42069]

I came here for melo and cyber.

[@HPPrintervx4p5q]

So like... Video games

[@crimsonspirit3036]

I mean, this entire issue is just expected. This didn't just happpen to vidya. Do you think audiences ages ago weren't also discontent when music trends and tastes began to change on a global scale? Same with books? Movies? Aren't these facts joked about all the time? When an industry lives long enough, when it's good enough, it's inevitable that it gets noticed by folks with money that this stuff can make money. So budgets become larger, priorities change and it goes mainstream. So you can no longer expect your favourite providers to keep up their earlier output and quality. That's how it always been with everything. Yeah, sucks that AAA development has become the pits, with both game quality and releases dropping for most companies, with laziness and anti-consumer practices becoming the norm. But such is life. Not saying this loss shouldn't be mourned or examined or that it's okay, of course it's terrible, but it was inevitable and any heartbreak over it could've been prevented with the minimum of foresight. Nobody thought of it though, because while the fall of the prior mediums has always been a fact in people's heads, we grew up with games seemingly being safe from that for a long time. That's why you look at indies, smaller devs and fangames. Simple as. Nobody quit listening to music when the top 40 all began to sound identical. They looked for other artists. Same with books and movies. It's really not a big deal. If anything, the fact that, say, Capcom's gotten mostly back on their feet and Nintendo still makes good games means the medium is in a better place than many other types of entertainment. Just like you probably already do with everything else, you put in the effort to look under the surface, find the more niche products that appeal to you, and keep moving. They still exist and will keep existing. It's never been about OLD GOOD NEW BAD, it's about accepting that one of the things we love most is business like any other and how to deal with that.

[@2emo2function]

When did the top 40 not sound identical

[@TheNatcon1]

wtf is this "Mickel" thing he keeps mentioning in this podcast. I have no idea where to find that

[@BestGuyEver]

It's a video I made a while back, MMICUL. Scroll down in the description, top one in the link section.

[@TheKrigeron]

I don't like truegaming that much, but that is a salty misrepresentation. Typical reviews can be posted on /r/Games.

[@keion_arknights]

Bakana, a Nate upload?

[@chaotixsolution5057]

Anyone remember what happened to crackdown