Old World Army Guide: Dwarfs Overview

[@akkio2567]

Love these breaksdowns, one thing that would put it to perfect is to include a picture of the models, it makes it easier to follow in some cases

[@RAWxxx07]

This 👍

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

There aren't enough high quality pictures that are consistent but I could try

[@Grassil]

@@SquareBasedOldWorldor maybe add painted minis when talking about them

[@overlord3051]

"You're going to need a *hammer*" Me: Expects segue into Hammerers Talks about miners instead xD

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

DEFY EXPECTATIONS

[@tomjordan7606]

Hammers also have a hand weapon. Which means you can actually make use of their shield in combat. You may sometimes want them to be more defensive rather than dps.

[@thedanish5523]

Quick note about the quarrelers and Thunderers as combat units, they have WS3 this edition instead of 4

[@jimirowe7006]

Khazukan Kazakit-ha! Excellent video manling.

[@wesadie]

Dude, you are smashing these overviews.

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

Thanks brother x

[@nurglematthew893]

I like the part where we talk about Dwarf Folk

[@walterdimmick653]

Lessons from my first 2k game with dwarves vs bstm. Gyrocopters and rangers are great. Attach 2 5man squads with torpedos to your ironbreakers. Abuse the any model can challenge rule for hammerers by nominating a model from nonfighting rank. This means one of their front rank models is not fighting but all of yours are, effectively this gives you a one model bonus to your front rank. Use runes to make several heroes "good enough" to help combat resolution and dont go crazy tooling up one relatively nonmobile character. The real trick of the gyrobomber is that it is a 4th gyro if you want to pay the premium. Slayers are fing useless as ever. In my view a big unit of ironbreakers and hammerers is a must. Gyros, cannons and rangers are no brainers. Anvil of Doom is a poor value proposition in a 2k game. Runesmith is dispel rune carrier. The loss of the step-up rule is super painful so the rune where you strike first should always be in your army somewhere as sure as a BSB. If you played Dwarves during 3rd to eighth, the game will be pretty familiar so you can apply experience from those old games for the most part.

[@samuelslager8666]

Can you take torpedoes in your detachments? You can't take command models in your detachment units and I was under the impression you needed a command model for the torpedo

[@mooseface66]

Irondrake detachment units can't have torpedoes

[@lukeit7949]

Cannons are really bad

[@belnoccio]

Unfortunately, war machines are very useless in my opinion, cannons cost more and are less effective. Organ guns can't take runes or have BS bonuses no more. The dwarf gunline is back to lots of light shooting and crossbows, but yes, Rangers and Gyros are the best units! Finally the army is having some mobility and still some good shooting while doing so. The real problems remain monsters and dragons since Slayers are unplayable as ever and no war machines are a waste of points.

[@JonBoyTheMagnanimous]

3:22 you are going in The Book for that pun

[@lootnscoot50]

Rangers are great. I have gone to running them as a 10 man with old deadeye(brace of pistols), and throwing axes, xbows and great weapons. I will plug them into woods or rough terrain and force the enemy to try to charge them. Throwing axes are absolute gold and worth the points. I also run them as a 5 man w throwing axes replacing crossbows and shields. A great harassment unit that you don’t really sweat trading.

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

They seem really cool

[@shamladphil5735]

You're swinging dwarves for me. I've got about 1000 points of Wood Elves to base and paint up but those rune combos sound so interesting

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

Wood elves are actually a better gunline!!

[@mattkuhn6634]

Great video! Something you didn't mention is that there's a STRONG synergy between the anvil and gyrobombers. Gyrobombers can drop bombs every time they move over a unit during the Remaining Moves subphase. The anvil's conveyance spell lets them move again in the Remaining Moves subphase, which means they can drop bombs twice per turn if the anvil gets the conveyance off. This makes upgrading to a single gyrobomber a very good deal if you are already taking an anvil and a gyrocopter. Since the anvil is really good this edition, this is a good combo, but if you weren't going to take an anvil anyway it may not be worth it.

[@Iron_Wyvern]

You have the absolute best army breakdowns.

[@SSBBcore]

Looking forward to the Lizardmen video! 🙏🏻✨ Love these videos 🎉

[@jeancouscous]

So do I ! Goonhammer had a good article tho

[@DouglasMeloche]

Hammerers! Thunderers!! BRING THINE GRUDGES!!! All is to be settled, and laid low

[@DannyMcGrath-jh6cw]

This breakdown is very useful. I haven't played since WHFB 5, but I work as a miniature sculptor and I want to sculpt my own Dwarf army. I had a fully painted 5,000 point Dwarf army back when I used to play in the 1990s(lost all of it in a house move) so now I'm going to create my own for print. Getting this full character/unit breakdown including weapons and armour is going to be a big help with the design and sculpting. Cheers.

[@seanclarke8015]

FINALLY! Long time coming, thanks for the effort put into these my dude.

[@mjpyro7993]

Dwarfs look so fun! Well done again with another great summary. Letsssss goooooo! ❤️

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

You babe

[@noprobllama9747]

I love how you do these summaries, so clear. I collect Warriors of chaos abt have listened to all your other faction videos multiple times also.

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

I'm so glad. I know they are late but here we are

[@christybjerg493]

As others have said i think organ gun is a bit useless now - It's only roll 2 artillery dice now, and can't take runes. Cannons and a bolt thrower with the rune of skewering is the way! Great vid though :D

[@pumkinlatte1760]

It’s finally here! Y’all are the best

[@Folgeantrag]

The psychological impact of an ambush unit to many players is considirable. Even when an Ambushing Unit like Miners standing beside the table and.waiting for their Roll-in. They can have an impact in tje deployment and moving of your opponents army

[@nathanfee9644]

DORFS. Thanks for the video Rob+team! I look forward to these breakdowns!

[@WarwickKinrade]

Long time Dwarf players (since 2nd ed). Dwarves warriors need an option for spears... a defensive weapon for a defensive army. Never liked that they lost them... heavy cavalry are the greatest threat, spears give them a fighting chance to do some damage back when charged. I like the idea of tough Dwarf schiltrons... it's very in character... so we'll house rule, spears for +1 pt per warrior. Good stuff with these reviews.

[@nealdixon-jones5851]

My first army was a marauder miniatures dwarf army from white dwarf in the 90’s. It had a unit of warriors with pikes 😅

[@TheShweeble]

I recently printed a whole 2000 army of the short lads, and had a blast playing. Haven't played any FB at all, I specifically started a new army for old world. The whole "not being maneuverable" is kinda annoying, not going to lie. If you are playing against an experienced opponent than you are going to have a bad time, and in general just standing and shooting thr whole game is not very exciting. On the other hand gyrocopters are simply amazing and bring a good variability to the army and rangers are surprisingly good at appearing in a convenient spot and being an absolute pain the ass for your opponent. Overall even though I was kinda upset by being forced into a "stand and shoot" play style I still enjoyed the games I had

[@Na_bro_leon]

I think there is more play than gunline only. You're very unlikely to get the first charge off, yes, but you can counter-charge with the best of them (especially when your units are highly unlikely to fully break from combat with high toughness/armor and high leadership). I think folks are sleeping on a tactical dwarf list that can scrimmage in the midfield.

[@TheShweeble]

​@@Na_bro_leon Yeah, I'm still trying stuff out and I really want to get a less warmachine heavy list work. But it my last game I played against Dark Elf list with a dragon, and I only brought one cannon and one bolt thrower, slaughtered all his infantry in the midfield only then to be wiped out by a single dragon. His dreadlord killed about 80% of my army by himself while I only managed to cause 3 wounds to him (out of 9 he has) throughout the game. It's something to be aware of when you're building a list, wa machines (or multiple torpedoes) are necessary in most cases

[@Na_bro_leon]

@@TheShweeble Dragons are definitely tough! I think most folks are currently trying to find ways to kill dragons outright, but in my experience they are best challenged and beaten by combat rez. Not easy, but if you're a dwarf, every challenge you give the dragon you're capping it at doing 6 wounds. At least until you can swing around some help. Dragon characters are the one thing I don't have great answers for with dwarves (largely due to the lack of speed/flexibility). I have seen a daemon slayer with some combat runes do some solid damage, but not sure that would hold up against, say, a Chaos Lord on dragon (with -1 to hit and re-rolling 6s to hit)

[@Dryzual]

Good job Manling.

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

Thanks Stunty

[@TheGeneralGarcia]

These are just fantastic! Thank you for your work on these. Old World is the best GW game.

[@earnestwanderer2471]

The free reform is interesting. You can set up in a sort of checkerboard formation. Then reform your anvil units to give a hammer unit an opening to charge through.

[@JollyLark]

Great video; this is the army I'm currently working on. Looking forward to getting into some crunchy list building, after the army overviews.

[@McMagnanimus]

Excellent video. I recently unearthed my 26-year old dwarf army to start playing Old World and this video was very helpful figuring out where each troop is at with the new rules. We had our first game yesterday and it was a blast.

[@IceJoust]

I might have to legally change my name to Trollhammer Torpedo. Just too powerful. Hit and run scout dwarves sound fascinating, a really cool technical challenge

[@exxeshobbytisch]

The Magical Resistance of the Runesmith applies to the unit?

[@Bog_Dog]

Amazing videos, so hard to pick what of the core factions I’ll collect once I’ve finished up my dark elves, Dwarfs seem such a fun contrast

[@Aliashavoc]

Hey Rob, just wanted to point out, the organ gun and flame cannon sadly aren't able to take engineering runes.

[@themainstager]

Let’s goooooo GET THE BOOK OF GRUDGES OUT BOYS

[@ragnarbaron6090]

You know what would put this video over the top. Include a basic army list on how you would play them.

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

That's coming later. It's way too early to work that out

[@Akwantik]

Perfect overview! Thanks

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

You are perfect thanks

[@nurglematthew893]

Full plate, let's go!!!!

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

FULL PLATE

[@Andy2D6]

The content I live for.

[@DMHightower]

GREAT VIDEO!! GREAT INFORMATION!! I've only ever dabbled in Warhammer Fantasy Battles and I want to play W:TOW. I don't fully grasp how to use march blockers etc, but I've got about 3000 points of painted dwarves and I'm anxious to roll dice and drink mead!!

[@anarchistkobold4375]

amazing breakdown

[@warpaintjj]

Good stuff ad usual. Lizards soon please chum 😊

[@gimiak]

The best yt place for Old World. Looking forward for Lizardmen and O&G.

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

O&G next

[@armandopatino7379]

YES!!!!!! THANK YOU!

[@errata2412]

Rangers are the best dwarven shooting

[@michaelf.7339]

Is the Anvil unit type Infantry? If not, then is does not benefit from the -1 to hit for skirmisher.

[@ParsonsMAD]

Cant wait for the Tomb Kings video, having trouble making a list

[@SimplyWarhammer]

Im going to have to watch this a LOT of times 😁 nice work 👍

[@antonkarlsson7078]

Love these! They are perfyti get at goog overview of every faction 🎉😊

[@GilthosDrakoniss]

Absolutely fantastic job

[@Boonedale]

Nice vid. Can't wait for GW to push out The Old World Dwarf minis.

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

They are gonna be so good

[@Boonedale]

@@SquareBasedOldWorld I hope so.

[@MrRemingt0n]

Absolutely loved your video

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

You are a babe

[@nomusenopaint]

Thanks for your excellent breakdowns! I am a bit sad though that Gromrilwaffen doesn’t apply to Great Weapons. It makes no real sense to me and Orks get their Choppa rule on different weapons as well. Maybe I am just a bit frustrated that I built and painted 20 Longbeards to have Greatweapons before the rules came out 😢

[@fiskcakes]

Brilliant Job, once again!

[@ParsonsMAD]

Man I hated playing vs dwarves back in the day. Raining hell on my melee army and when we finally got to them they so hard to shift. Stubborn beardy boyz

[@getorix1]

Brilliant review been looking forward to the run through of my army. I was hoping the slayers would be abit stronger but at least I'll have fun figuring out how to use them. I'm wondering if the gyro copters and bombers are going to be useful for charging a flank and then running down the enemy late game, given they have swiftstride and aren't resolute it's about the only chance dwarfs have got of cutting anything down.

[@vzgg1973]

Thanks Rob - I enjoy yr perspectives even if don’t agree all the time. I think it’s really unimaginative that the designers have stuck with the 3” M for Dwarves. A 4” move would have elevated this faction buT sadly its back to the old grind of “the dwarf phase” (Black powder castles) A wasted opportunity to allow for more manoeuvrable & interesting exp to play with & against. Vanguard, Drilled on some units, Miners, Rangers, steampunk planes & the Anvil IMHO look to be concessions to the dumb narrative rule design of slow M. The kind of lists we’ll see at tournaments without a comp will be incredibly boring to play against. They may provide a kick for ppl that think their opponent should come at them and be shot at for their own enjoyment but certainly a big downer for ppl that thought they’re playing a R&F game set in a fantasy medievalish setting. Highly recommend Black Powder from Warlord games for linear gun based games. A shame really because the inf combat units and the characters are fantastic for entertaining contests that will be rare or one sided due to stupid movement that leads to the steampunk cult to continue.

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

I think arcane journals can solve this and cannon castles solve monster mash metas. A healthy rock paper scissors

[@RuleofKrule]

This will cure my battlescroll blues!

[@Moiax]

My bois (and Helga)! Eagerly awaiting our time in the sun, hopefully after greenskins! Looking forward to the deeper dives too.

[@tysmotherman7047]

Thank you for this.

[@belnoccio]

As a long time dwarf player, I agree with almost everything regarding troops, except for Slayers that I'm convinced are still useless with no mobility as the rest of the army. I'm pretty upset with war machines though, I think this is the worst version I've ever seen: cannon are so useless now that Strength values does not give AP. Not even a standard cavalry unit is afraid of war machines right now (the only good one is the empire machine gun because they have good engineers). I would have given cannons a flat 3 wounds, given that they are already pretty nerfed. Dwarven gunline is much worse, in previous editions I really would not play light shooting because organs and cannons were much more effective, now it's pretty much the opposite! No ballistic skill given from Engineers to war machines, less wounds, less penetration... An organ gun, not able to take runes and without BS bonuses, is worst than 10 Irondrakes for pretty much the same cost.

[@belnoccio]

In short, I think dwarves are still solid, with more resilience in cc (not sure if we needed it) and control over magic phases, but they took away one of the main strengths of the army, and one of the more peculiar ways to play dwarves. I'm still trying in the first matches to see if shooting does it's job as before but I'm not very fond of it (linehammer with 20 crossbows and Irondrakes seems the way to go).

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

I think the lack of writing them a different play style means the Arcan Journal will kick ass

[@pinch1loaf]

If they had the weapon skill of 4, you could think of quarellers and thunderers as dwarf warriors, but they have WS 3, so there's that. Not worth the points, they should be the same price as warriors Trading off the WS for ranged at the same cost. For some reason the game design says missile weapons should be pricey even though they have little effect in the field with limited ranges that only let them shoot 2-3 times before getting pwned in combat.

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

Really good point thaynkyou

[@shockerck4465]

Definitely a downgrade from last edition

[@SocalDunedain]

Been waiting for this one! The beards are grudging!

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

Short but fast

[@TheShweeble]

Pro tip: there's no exception to what unit can be moved again with the rune from anvil of doom. So you can take a squad of gyrocopters, vanguard them 9, then move 9, then move again if you successfully cast the rune. After moving your 27 inches you are most likely in range of your desired infantry box and ready to commit war crimes with your steam guns. Or possibly do a bombing run on the first turn and try to put them in a position where nobody can charge your copters. And they say dwarfs are slow

[@prlostinshadows]

Thanks dude. I think these videos will be more successful than renegade vids

[@GunwitchUK]

So what you're saying, Dwarfs are as funny as Gobbis to play 😂

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

Yeah babe!

[@Zabzim]

Can you settle the argument over whether or not runic items are magic items for the purposes of destroying of magic items?

[@Thorgrim153]

Been looking forward to this one

[@MalkavDraconic]

Looking at this army from a Wood Elf perspective: They’re gunline style of play is going to need answering pretty hard. Armour piercing arrows are already my favourites, plus how to get at those warmachines and survive?

[@TheNinjazorz]

Flying units like Warhawk Riders/Great Eagles are great for war machine hunting. You could also use stuff like Waywatchers with Ambushers to try and get behind the lines (having additional hamd weapons make them surprisingly alright in melee). Otherwise as WELFS you have incredible mobility, so any gap in the Dwarf lines can be exploited by cav.

[@MalkavDraconic]

@@TheNinjazorz warhawks are probably my best answer. Most my ranged fire is S3, warhawks are vulnerable to return fire. Waywatchers and Ambusher could work well too. Dwarves are just a problem for me :-(

[@Alexander-fn9cu]

You could spam glade guard with hagbane arrows. Roll enough dice and you'll get the 6s needed to automatically wound without armour saves allowed.

[@MalkavDraconic]

@@Alexander-fn9cu glade guard with hagbane tips are 13+ points per model. I’m pretty sure poisoned attacks they still get their armour save? Poison and Armour bane on a 6 is one or the other, not both if what I’ve heard is correct. Elves are less good at the bucket o’ dice approach - Which is where the Swiftshiver Shards/multishot would come in.

[@Alexander-fn9cu]

@@MalkavDraconic Ah, I clearly misunderstood the meaning of 'automatically wound'. I thought that meant they didn't get their armour save. Fair enough.

[@noops9220]

We don’t believe in magic, instead we have “runic special time” 😂

[@harrycross9051]

Wooooooooo Dwarfs!!!

[@Kcignatius]

I wish Resolute applied to FBIGO. Seems like it should thematically, and would reduce the impact of the nerf a bit. The nerf used to be to make up for the fact that Dwarfs didn't get -1 to M when equipped with heavy armour and shield. and then because we couldn't be march blocked. Neither of those benefits still apply, but the nerf does. Rude.

[@MarcoRoccaGert]

Yay more dwarves!

[@errata2412]

When do you talk about trollslayer torpedos?

[@earnestwanderer2471]

So an organ gun can have runes? They used to be too new fangled to be given runes.

[@lukeit7949]

No they can't

[@emcdunna]

Are we absolutely sure that "at risk of being hit" means you have to roll a 4+ for every model even the ones completely covered by the template? I thought it was auto hit the ones fully under the template and a 4+ for the ones partially under? I can't find where in the rulebook it specifies that "at risk of being hit" means you have to roll a 4+ or somehow they pull a the matrix move and dodge bullets 😊

[@mooseface66]

Fully under the template is hit automatically

[@emcdunna]

@mooseface66 yeah and I think that Rob might be assuming you have to roll 4+ for everyone under it

[@hailhydra7959]

Love the models but would never play this army! Lovely video

[@andrewbakescakes9684]

Dwarfs!

[@totalwardad]

I covered my ears when I heard "Deep Dive!" out of habit. :)

[@crisismethodactor]

Das heffelboot

[@JustaRandoDudeGuyMan]

28 ironbreakers with two detachments of 14 drilled irondrakes? Rune of parrying !!

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

Yes!!! Let's go

[@earnestwanderer2471]

Do dwarf handguns still get a bonus to hit?

[@morkriger]

No, but they don't suffer the -1 to Hit while doing a "Stand and shoot" charge reaction

[@zdthane]

DWARFS!!!!!! My hill loving boys!!!!!!

[@Kurze0]

Disagree with taking cannons, they are too unreliable, and while they dont go through multiple ranks, 5x irondrakes with the torpedo is the same damage with a more reliable shot for cheaper. Bolt throwers are far and away the best warmachine in the entire game, especially when we can take rune of skewering to just cut through heavy armour, and ive gone through the book multiple times and im fairly confident we can take multiple rune of skewering by just throwing on another 5 point rune to differentiate the run loadouts.

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

Interesting. Happy to be wrong and love to see where it ends up

[@PRAISE_HASHUT]

KNOW YOUR ENEMY!!

[@peterrautenbach1298]

The Organ gun and flame cannons can’t take runes. The math for the Organ gun is just really bad due to BS 3. At long range you are hitting on 5+ and if you roll any misfires you are hitting on 6+. While you can obviously swing real heard with a ton of shots, more often than not you are maybe going to kill a few models at most. I’m honesty not sure the Organ Gun is worth. Flame cannon seems more reliable oddly enough desire the shorter range but in the end, Irondrakes and rangers are where it’s at for sure.

[@DukensteinA1]

You’re so handsome, Rufio.

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

Let's kiss

[@RyanF1313]

Will you make video for the legacy stuff? * Cough * Vampire Counts

[@petebedwellphotos]

He’s done one for the Chaos Dwarfs already, so should be one for your pointy teethed friends :)

[@RyanF1313]

@@petebedwellphotos I will - ah ah ah - count the days until I see that video :D

[@andrewbakescakes9684]

Watching again. Looking forward to the deep dive Dwarf dideo. But...Am I wrong in thinking Dwarfs are far and away the derpiest army in WtoW? I want to be proven wrong, but damn, in a movement based game, they got nothing except the massively under-priced gyrocopter.

[@gregdoriman]

KHAZUKAN KAZAKIT-HA !

[@earnestwanderer2471]

Don’t great weapons have AP2?

[@GodrockTadaka]

Square based 4 life baby!

[@tomcorbett6089]

why isn't this on spotify

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

Is now

[@tomcorbett6089]

@@SquareBasedOldWorld Just in time for my monster skeleton painting session tonight 💕

[@ClydeMillerWynant]

Thanks for the review, well put together as ever. I like all the units and think they all have good things about them with the possible exception of Troll/Giant Slayers which is a shame as I want to field my old beserkers. Haven't played yet so take with a pinch of salt and it all remains to be seen, but I guess my concerns would be as follows: 1) Not sure what there is that's going to deal with the characters on dragons. War machines don't appear to do enough damage and characters are too slow for the dragons to have to fight the really tooled up ones. Maybe the 'kill everything else' approach is best, but that is a bit unsatisfactory in terms of fighting a battle even if it might be a workable way to go to win on points. 2) Most of what people seem to think is strong in the new game is stuff Dwarfs don't have. Characters on flying beasts, monsters, cavalry, magic (I realise there is the anvil, not sure how much its lack of mobility will matter). Conversely the things they do have that are good are thought to have been weakened - war machines and infantry. So while I'm prepared to believe it may still work out I'm yet to see a good case made for why they shouldn't be expected to be weaker than previously. There's a thought that they have a strength in 'grindy' combat and maybe that is what will win through, but if that is the case then maybe the cavalry and monsters are not as strong as is believed. 3) Dwarf missile units have got better (Rangers especially), but is shooting strong enough to make up for the other deficiencies? 4) As you suggest there is possibly only the one way of playing if 'playing to win' which is disappointing. Hope this doesn't turn out to be the case, perhaps the infantry will after all prove to be up to it and something can be done along with scouts, ambushers and copters that makes moving around viable. Not too confident about that though. 5) The best stuff is mostly things I don't really like either because I don't feel they really fit or find them silly, the models are horrible or both - Irondrakes, Anvil, Shieldbearers, Gyros. Can't be helped, going to have to learn to love at least one or two of those things I guess. Thinking about alternative models for Irondrakes and looking out for very old Gyrocopter models... Absolutely looking forward to finding out how they actually play down the line!

[@toro132]

yep all this is true. actual meta are heroe on dragon+magelvl4 and cavalry. dwarfs havent nothimg of this and also cant deal with dragons. dwarfs gonna need huge buffs or they gonna be the worst army lf tow in actual meta

[@emcdunna]

Dwarfs should get a rule similar to wood elves where they get to place 1 hill before the start of the battle. I know you hate hills but a gun line kind of needs at least one with how the rules were written.

[@peterrautenbach1298]

Without a hill, I don’t think I’d ever run range units other than rangers and irondrakes. Their BS is just not good enough to rely on only a few shots and the ones in the back are basically wasted points. Two counter points to what I just said: -if large targets were a substantial part of the meta then multiple ranks becomes much better -dwarf ranges units are right in melee quite well and you could have a 7x3 of ranged units that is actually a close combat brick that uses stand and shoot. But of course the question becomes “okay but why not use ranges?”

[@walterdimmick653]

@@peterrautenbach1298 Should be able to get line of sight for one cannon at least. There are also good tactical reasons for having one or two cannons in an all comers list. Terrain seems a lot more sparse in OW vs AoS, it has to be for manuevering blocks.

[@peterrautenbach1298]

@@walterdimmick653 I was more talking about mot taking thunderers and quarrellers but I do find more artillery to be potentially lacking. I will say that the cannon seems to have some utility with its range. I also think the flame cannon could be good. Though again, Irondrakes with trollhammer seem like our premiere monster killer

[@zaynevanday142]

Dwarves love ❤ to hate Elves

[@TobiasPatrick]

I am sure I have not seen all the battle reports out there, but I have yet to see dwarfs win a game. It is early, but so far, they seem middling.

[@michaelchampion936]

Great breakdown. Have to disagree, we don't need a 'rule of three' Reason is, the game already has this built into the army construction, with the limitations on certain units. A rule of three can ruin some armies, think a single god chaos deamon player, or a person trying a say goblin themed army. If the gyrocopters are an issue, then you need them to be like a lot of other units in the book, restricted with say a 0-2 per 1000 points rule. Great beard.

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

I think we will see long term on the issue and I'm only interested in the best result for the game and everyone. Id ban elves if I could. Bloody pointy ears

[@allancarey2604]

I sounds like while my one true love is Orcs & Goblins….My dwarves are going to be my competition army :) (becouse of the big flying monsters :) )

[@ClydeMillerWynant]

It's one way to look at it. O&G have big flying monsters though and Dwarfs don't!

[@allancarey2604]

True…but I think 3 cannon trumps the big flying things :) & Wyverns just don’t cut it unfortunately…and I have 4 (all different because I’m a bit to much of a collector :) )

[@cyberash3000]

the only thing i would argue about is the artillery, ive played three games and they have done pretty much nothing.

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

These takes were probably before we really fully understood the half-baked level of artillery in the game.

[@cyberash3000]

@@SquareBasedOldWorld i just played a 1500 point game against the empire which i lost, but he had a cannon and helblaster, his hellblaster shot 26 shots at close range at my 3 gyrocopters, one iof which had lost a wound already, it only managed to kill two gyrocopters and leave one on one wounmd which then charged and destroyed the helblaster before being destroyed by their lord. but still bad for 26 strength 5 shots. the cannone killed 3 of my dwarfs all game. it fire three times, hit 2 then 1 then 2 dwarfs , it killed 3.

[@sebastiencarrieres8825]

Arghh! Finally. But you did the review after pointy ears and orcs, that's a grudge!