What do Euclidean Sequencers have to do with Polyrhythms and Polymeters?

[@MaxiCrows]

the last part was wonderful to understand thanks

[@OmriCohen-Music]

Cheers!

[@ShowtiGrek]

Hi Omri 🙂. I started to learning about modular two weeks ago and your content helps me a lot. Thank You. Cheers from Warsaw 🔥🔥🎶🎶

[@OmriCohen-Music]

Hey, that's amazing, thanks so much!

[@ResonantBytes]

Nice overview and beautiful examples! The reason why the polyrhythmic and polymetric approach create the same result lies in the use of the lowest common multiple. If you look closely you notice the first "polymetric" sequencer (length 7) is actually playing the 5s, so the part of the first "polyrhythmic" sequencer (hits 5). That's because the length of the "polymetric" sequence corresponds to the gaps(*) (including the beat) in the "polyrhythmic" one and each the of the "polyrhythmic" sequences has either 5 hits and 7 gaps or 7 hits and 5 gaps. The product of hits and gaps in between is the LCM. So the polymetric version is a compressed version of the polyrhythmic one: The polyrhythmic approach uses a constantly repeating pattern which contains a lot of redundancy. On the other hand the 1 in the corresponding "polymetric" sequence plays every note of the "polyrhythmic" one. Where the differences start to show is when you add a third rhythm, e.g., a 3: In polyrhythmic land you just continue the same principle: Length of the pattern: 3 * 5 * 7 = 105, 3 patterns with 3, 5 and 7 hits respectively. In polymetric land you can't just add anther sequence with the length 3. Instead the length of each sequence must correspond to the multiple of every other rhythm, so for 3 it's 5 * 7 = 35, for 5 it's 3 * 7 = 21 and for 7 it's 3 * 5 = 15.Of course that's just the lengths of the corresponding gaps in the polyrhythmic patterns of length 105. (As you include non-mutually-prime rhythms you can decrease the length of the patterns using the LCM.) So in the end it's just a question of what you look at: Do you look at the length until the whole pattern repeats and the number of beats in each patterns during that length? -> polyrhythmic approach Do you look at the period/gaps between each beat? -> polymetric approach The underlying principle is the same: When do compositions of prime or coprime periods repeat? Polyrhythms and polymeters are just two ways of looking at it. That's what I find so beautiful about polyrhythms and euclidian sequencers: It's all just integer math :) (*) "gaps" is a poor choice of nomenclature here, because it's not actually the gaps but the length of the period until the pattern repeats internally, but it's easier to understand and describe, so I'll stick with it.

[@avationmusic]

you just made everything make sense. thank you

[@ResonantBytes]

@@avationmusic Thanks, really makes me happy to hear that! :)

[@ztotta]

inspiring as always! thanks, Omri

[@OmriCohen-Music]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@GrvMUSIC4U]

So well explained 🙌🙌

[@OmriCohen-Music]

Glad it was helpful!

[@MikeUIibarri]

2:40 This is great. I can't not think in stereo, and this hits the spot.

[@OmriCohen-Music]

I'm happy you enjoyed it :)

[@jbagi]

Köszönjük!

[@OmriCohen-Music]

Hey, thanks so much!

[@mikaeels2691]

I love listening to polyrhythmic music, especially African and Indian music, would be awesome to incorporate it in my own music

[@nicholasharral6128]

Hey Omri, your videos are incredibly helpful for someone like myself just beginning to learn modular synthesis via VCV. Wanted to say thank you!

[@OmriCohen-Music]

That's great, I really appreciate it! Thanks!

[@amar_paul]

Superbly explained and inspiring! Thank you 🙏🏻

[@OmriCohen-Music]

Glad it was helpful!

[@janpkern]

Glad you brought this topic up again 🙂 ... As always, well explained

[@OmriCohen-Music]

Glad you liked it!

[@conradhendricks177]

Love it! If you have time, a song using the patch from 10:26 with a big four on the floor drop would be great!

[@OmriCohen-Music]

yeah, that can be fun :) Thanks!

[@Imperceptible_parachute]

Great explanation and overview of Euclidian sequencers. Thanks! Have downloaded VCV Rack 2 Pro & subscribed to your channel!

[@OmriCohen-Music]

Thanks so much! I wish you many hours of fun patching and happy accidents :)

[@Imperceptible_parachute]

@@OmriCohen-Music there will be plenty of happy accidents, I’m sure!

[@Ouzala]

Man this is sooo coool ! I knew what polyrythm are but i didn't knew polymeters were a thing ! Your musical exemple are awesome ! I going to mess with this type of stuff this seems to be really fun to play with since you can have some pretty unique and unpredictable results ! THank you again for sharing your knowledge !

[@OmriCohen-Music]

Hey, that's great, I'm happy you enjoyed it :)

[@Almanacs]

Really loved this! Thanks for sharing.

[@OmriCohen-Music]

Thanks so much!

[@ToshisanMotonaka]

Amazing thank you! 🎉

[@OmriCohen-Music]

Cheers!

[@industrialnomad]

It depends on the time signature you decide the piece is in, same as accidental notes are determined by the key signature.

[@omarbrown2696]

Proper. I now have a better understanding of Euclidean clock/trigger modules.

[@dereklammers2977]

this was very interesting. My girlfriend (who is from South America) has been asking me if I can make some latin music with any of my software (or hardware). Now I know how :D thank you very much, Omri

[@OmriCohen-Music]

Oh, that's great! Let me know how it goes :)

[@beetlefelix8157]

Oh yes 🙌🏼, many thanks!)

[@OmriCohen-Music]

Cheers!

[@gianlucamarchese]

Nice video, on the last question my guess is that if you add additional steps in the sequencer maintaining the same length relationships, it will behave as a Polyrhythm with a different time division, because regardless of the number of hits, if they restart on the next phrase, on the first beat at the same time, it'll be a Polyrhythm.

[@pedroberoes49]

Hey omri love your videos, you should do a video like this explaning the Frozen Wasteland quad algorithim sequencer, i have been playing a lot with it to make crazy stacked polyrhythms i feel like you could do some unique stuff with it

[@OmriCohen-Music]

Hey, thanks! I did one a while ago but since then it got updated a lot so maybe it's a time for a revisit :)

[@crozpatching4598]

Love the rhythimcal stuff!

[@OmriCohen-Music]

Cheers!

[@bonio999]

I wonder if it would be possible to create a well formed polyrhythm like how it works in Xronomorph, were differing time signature become conjunct at set points.

[@StephenDisarioMusic]

is this patch available on your patch storage link? tried looking but couldn't find it!

[@OmriCohen-Music]

No, it seems like I didn't upload the patches...

[@LuisTorres-qz5kr]

On your question around if the last patch example stays as a "Poly-rhythm" or "Poly-meter" if you add additional triggers on the 8-Step Sequencer.... I would think it is still a "Poly-Rhythm" since the first step/trigger is always ON (hence, similar to the Euclidean Sequencer).

[@2of238]

Not related to this video but something that I find difficult to learn is when I apply LFO to any parameter of my nord it goes from 0 to max and return while staying at O and max for some time , actually I want to control the range of the action without them staying at the max and min value for some time. How should I do it?

[@rolfendlessman7983]

Maybe cv the gate of the LFO with a clock?

[@2of238]

@@rolfendlessman7983 there is no gate CV in the default VCV LFO.

[@rolfendlessman7983]

@@2of238 u right but there are other LFO's that have a clock input, you can search in the vcv page of plugins. I think bogaudio is one example, but for sure yo can do it with Mindmeld's shapemaster. Maybe is a little tricky, but Jakub Ciupinsky have a lot of great videos of how to use it. Hope this works :)

[@OmriCohen-Music]

Well, it sounds like the range of the LFO you're using doesn't match the modulation source so try and use the Dual Attenuverter from Befaco, for example, and set the right range for your LFO. Let me know if it works.

[@LuisTorres-qz5kr]

Thanks for sharing Omri! As always, I learn a ton from your videos.

[@OmriCohen-Music]

Hey, Luis, thanks so much!

[@stacpoolella]

Awesome explanation of the sequencer , I struggled to get my head around it but this great! A question, I would like to emulate a similar sound like ryoji ikeda - is sequencer the right tool for the job?

[@OmriCohen-Music]

Thanks :) I guess that something a bit more random or generative will work better in this case. Have a look at Marbler from Mutable Instruments, for example.

[@ChrisMills-AmbientSpace]

Wouldn’t polymeter involve two different time signatures? This could be achieved with clock dividers or multiple Euclidean generators.

[@OmriCohen-Music]

Well, for anything poly you will need more than one "thing" but yeah, there are many ways to get the same results.

[@francoisvion]

Hi, i don't find this proper patch exemple in your list. Where can i find it ?

[@OmriCohen-Music]

Hi, I'm not so sure if I saved it...

[@billB101]

Here's one Omri, try to recreate a Steve Reich type phase pattern using modular.

[@OmriCohen-Music]

Here you go :) kzbin.info/www/bejne/m2qzi6maorGsi9U

[@billB101]

@@OmriCohen-Music Ha, you're already ahead of me :)

[@phiticu]

Do you get al this modules in vcvrack? Or pro ? Thank you

[@OmriCohen-Music]

All available for free in VCV :)

[@edwardnixon1782]

I guess I have a question back to yours: in the Euclidian case, does 'as evenly as possible' mean as long as they occur on the sequence pulse? Or does it mean, they will occur on the mathematically correct, real number, division point within the interval between one loop beginning and the next beginning?

[@rarebreeds4346]

To make a Euclidean rhythm you take a bar and split it into a number of equal length beats, say 8. Then pick the number of onsets (the beats that should be played aloud), say 5. Then you place those 5 beats onto the beats in the 8 beat bar in a way that spaces them out as evenly as possible, or in other words, so that the distance between each onset beat is as even as possible. For the 5/8 example this turns out to be "XX.X.XX." So it's more like your second thought, but after dividing the loop into 5 evenly distanced beats, you quantize them to the nearest 8th. The quantizing bit is what gives you the interesting rhythms, especially when the number of onsets isn't evenly divisible into the number of beats in the bar. The Euclidean rhythm wiki page has links to papers on it if you're interested.

[@OmriCohen-Music]

yeah, as Rare Breeds said, it's more mathematical, and the quantization gives everything the interesting rhythmic result.

[@octaviogaspar2704]

Oh Yeah

[@OmriCohen-Music]

Cheers!

[@АртемКлыков-ь6б]

👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

[@obineg5752]

i just love how he needs two and a half minutes to anser the question from the video titel basically with "...nothing!". so, to sum it up: to teach someone what polyrythm and polymetric means, it is obviously best NOT to use an euclidian sequencer tool but something else. :)

[@andewprod]

Honestly i dont care that much about terminology because i loose myself there a lot.. but i would say its a polyrythm inside of a polymeter.. but in the end It doesnt matter as long as It sounds good to you ;)

[@OmriCohen-Music]

It's all about the music at the end :)