onboard velocette KTT | No more ethanol free fuel

Ok this is the follow up video to velofan motorcycle workshop ep4 where i diagnose and sort the clutch and also hopefully my hard starting of the ktt.
For some unknown reason i deleted a huge section of this ride where i was talking all about my fault finding of my hard start resulting in clutch strip down, but never mind. The bit about Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance has nothing to do with ethanol fuel it was about when something changes we fixate on that as being the route cause of the problem so in my case ignition timing, but actually seems to be the clutch so totally unrelated.
Having watched this video a few times i can see a car beeps me when i overtake a cyclist. I feel bit pissed off with being beeped at because i stay within my lane so no danger to the car i just move right over to the white line to give the cyclist enough room, never mind just glad i didn't realise it at the time the exhaust was doing its job of drowning out the arseholes.
I might do the next ride to re cap what i lost but doubt i can remember everything i was on about, so anyway the main thing in this video is discussion on the issue of no more ethanol free fuel. Esso premium was ethanol free but since September this is not the case. We are doomed. No more pump fuel is ethanol free.
So please ladies and gents get involved and explain what you are doing about this problem.

[@neilfoddering921]

The old bus really seems to be flying. Lovely! Cleveland Discol was a widely available petrol/ethanol fuel sold at the pump in filling stations from the 1920s until 1968. It was advertised as “The Petrol with Alcohol). I find it difficult to believe that it would have remained on sale for so long if it had caused problems with vehicles during that period. I shall use E5, but with a fuel additive “just in case”, and I shall drain the fuel tank during the winter layup, because I don’t want stale fuel when I use the bike again in the Spring, otherwise I’m not going to worry. If you search “Cleveland Discol” on KZbin, you can find information about it, including a 1960s advert for it.

[@velofan.]

Ok thanks Neil I will have a look into that as I thought adding ethanol was a new thing. I hear it eats rubber seals but on my bike that’s not an issue. I don’t drain my fuel tank over winter and just fill it to max but now if Iam on ethanol maybe I shall have to start draining it bone dry. And yep it seems to be going good now it has a clutch built correctly. But I want to still fiddle with the mixture screw and maybe even needle position or jets as plug always looks on the rich side

[@neilfoddering921]

@@velofan. I think ethanol is more of a problem for owners of soldered tanks, such as in 1920s flat tank machines (and also of Nortons with “pie crust” seams and Brough Superiors - serves them right for not buying Velocette). I’m more concerned that modern petrol seems to be more inclined to deteriorate with storage, although an airtight container and a suitable additive might prevent it going stale.

[@velofan.]

ah could be a problem for my kns then as ive soldered the leaking tank. But iam just concerned over the inside of my tank rusting as again the kns tank was mega rusty inside and i tried this vinegar thing and it was a total nightmare, its still rusty inside looks worse than before but did remove a shed load of crud

[@mathewcrick]

She goes beautifully, what a sound. Love it mate!

[@velofan.]

thank you. The sound is actually unbelievable and not fully portrayed in my videos. last week i was at a motorbike meet. it started getting very windy and rain started i rushed to leave as it was also getting dark, bike not lights, anyway left without putting my ear plugs in and man i was in love again just off the exhaust note. one of my favourite sounds is when iam full throttle and then shut it off for a long time the bike is slowing down the noise is wonderful. Thanks for watching any of the ktt videos.

[@TornadoCAN99]

Just found your channel yesterday and have set about working my way through your Velocette videos. Here in Canada, we've also just switched over to no more ethanol-free fuels. I own a '74 Norton Commando and an '88 Classic Mini, both carb'd. Not overly worried as all fuel lines and seals have been updated to ethanol proof types. Both engines seem to run just fine on the E10 fuels. The octane rating is only important when running higher compression ratios...below 10 to 1 should not be troubled by less octane. If you experience pinking under heavy engine loads, then go with a higher octane (assuming you are not over advanced on the engine timing). Main concern is storing the bike/car for a month or more. As fuel evaporates from carb bowls, it may leave a lacquer build up which can clog jets. Be sure to either add a fuel stabilizer additive and or fully drain/rinse out the carb & float bowl with something like brake parts cleaner spray. Also, either fully drain the tank or fill it to brim with fuel while stored for a few months to help prevent rust risk. There is also the option to line the tank with a good quality epoxy-based tank liner. Trick here is to ensure very clean/prepared/etched metal surface prior to applying the liner for best adhesion. Ethanol is a major issue for those bikes running fibreglass/polyester resin tanks (older Commandos for example), as the ethanol slowly softens the tank resin and it ends up clogging up the carbs.

[@velofan.]

Hey nice one for the info. Most appreciated. Yes my friend is the grandson of Derek rickman who with his brother made the rickman metisse motorcycles. They have fibreglass fuel tanks. I have made many videos and quite a few ktt rides etc. if you get any enjoyment from them I am achieving my goal and every comment I get I feel is a win also as my channel is extremely small and limited audience I guess.

[@TornadoCAN99]

@velofan. Regarding using a water wash procedure to extract ethanol from petrol, yes that will work, it is a process we used in organic chemistry lab in university for separating dissimilar fluids. However, highly impractical for someone to do at home. No one mentions how to safely/properly dispose of all the now contaminated water being generated. Just pouring into your public drains will be illegal for good reasons.

[@velofan.]

@@TornadoCAN99 oooh that is interesting information yet again, and i was unaware of the removed fluid as being hazardous. I never fuel up on the move anyway so having a fuel storage at home for quality fuel is my aim. But only keep a 20l jerry can. If i ever do a real long ride over well over 100 miles i shall just use e5 and hope for the best. The problem is whatever damage it may do it wont be obviously straight away, i suspect it will take years.

[@TornadoCAN99]

@@velofan. Perhaps you should figure out a way to fuel up without stopping the engine. I have seen many modern sport bikers filling up at pumps without dismounting their bikes. That alone is risky in my opinion. Would not like to see someone filling the tank with engine idling. Maybe carry a small jerry can and then stop at a good re-start location (top of hill. parking lot etc) to pour in the petrol.

[@velofan.]

@@TornadoCAN99 good idea but as this bike will not idle, intentional design of its original amal tt carburettor that would be impossible. I think the best i can do is carry a small amount of fuel additive with me because if iam fueling up whilst out riding iam definitely using the bike regularly at that time of the riding season. And so even if iam buying e5 it will be ok for that time till next ride. I think it just concerns me that most fuel stations are on busy roads with not great bump starting opportunities. But like i say its very rare i go even 100 miles in a trip and a full tank will take me over the 100 mile mark. I was supposed to ride today and make another video but due to indecision it didnt happen but we are currently blessed with really warm nice weather for this time of year and wanted to maximize that before we hit cold and dark.

[@jdudb]

I wash my petrol since Esso stopped selling ethanol free. I have a forty litre chicken drinker which is just a large water container with a funnel shaped spout underneath that makes draining off the water easy. I have tested the fuel afterwards and it appears to be completely ethanol free but you do have to leave it for a week after mixing to make sure all the water settles out. The KSS runs fine on the results.

[@velofan.]

Hi jdudb. I really appreciate this reply. I watched a youtube video with a chap using the chicken drinker, seemed like a very useful all in one tool rather than special glass funel chaped lab gear etc and fitting a tap to just drain off water. he added food colouring iam sure. I cant really remember the exact process. I think he used to add an octane booster. Not sure its necessary for our old velo's. I have bought 40 or 50 litres of race fuel from Anglo American oil company. I am mixing this with esso e5 fuel about 4l e5 1l race fuel i think. And also adding briggs & stratton fuel fit. What method are you using to be sure no water remains in the fuel after washing. I want to move over to the washing. People have been doing it for a while but i wanted to wait for it to be a nice known tried and tested method to remove the dreaded Ethanol.

[@jdudb]

Hi Velofan, when you first mix the water with the fuel the whole mixture goes cloudy. After a few hours the water seems to have mainly settled but the petrol is still a little cloudy. I think this is because there are micro drops of water still floating about but after leaving it a couple of days the petrol becomes clear. I then leave it for a few more days to make absolutely sure and at the end the petrol is totally clear. Then I just drain off the water plus a small amount. I don't use any additives as the petrol is still vastly better than what was available at the time. The chicken drinker is difficult to see through so I use a clear tube to drain it and it is easy to see when the water ends and the petrol starts. If you add a food dye then it is even easier.@@velofan.

[@velofan.]

@@jdudb I like the idea of a clear tube on the drain tap as like you say the plastic chicken drinker is not totally see through. I think I will start investing in the gear. Will be way cheaper than buying the race fuel no matter how clean burning and nice the race fuel is it is still very expensive. Does have a good shelf life though.

[@mathewcrick]

So far on our Venom I’ve managed on E5 (we do have non ethanol 101 racing fuel nearby) but that will give me one tank and can’t rely on that if taking a longer journey. I honestly don’t don’t notice a difference with the e5 98. Given the presence of ethanol when I put the bike away in the winter, I do drain the tank as a precaution. Whether it’s needed I don’t know. But have the same worries as you. I’ve avoided all ledges replacement additives as they were actually more trouble than they were worth. More blockages and sludge without an observable improvement in the engine which to be honest seems to run fine. Not sure if this is of any use to anyone but just throwing it out there.

[@mathewcrick]

What I forgot to mention was when I’m almost home I turn of the petrol tap, and in some cases that means pushing the last 25 meters back home 😂 but that way, I know at least the carb is empty. All in all, when running the bike fairly frequently and in the summer I also use it for my commute. I’m under the impression regular 98 (e5) seems to work just fine and no additives needed. But obviously if the bike is stationary for any length of time, that’s my main concern which is why I drain the tank if the bike will be stationary for 2 weeks or longer. It’s a small effort, and easily re-added through a filter a few weeks later. Maybe it’s not perfect but my Venom runs like a charm and haven’t needed to clean the carb in over 6 years.

[@velofan.]

thats good info, ive been advised on a briggs and stratton additive by someone with 15 bikes to try and keep running so figure its working for him says 3 years fuel good. But i also avoided the fuel lining when that was a thing and everyone regretted it untill better lining was introduced

[@mathewcrick]

@@velofan. let me know what it is exactly and your experience with it when you know more. This is a topic I’m sure we all can and want to learn more on, as the fuel problem grows. Can’t wait for everyone to drive electric vehicles and petrol stations see classic vehicles as a business surviving priority 😉

[@velofan.]

sadly i dont think they ever will. i think they will convert to electric charging stations and forget the classic vehicles exist and need fuel to get from A-B on a long journey. I also fear petrol will become super expensive as it gets rarer, on the flip side if its not in high demand we might be loving fuel prices drop to say 10p a litre. I understand the eco movement but would like to see classics still allowed on the road.@@mathewcrick

[@debraromano2160]

Here in Amerika you can buy ethonol free fuel labeled off road use at octane ratings from 90 to 93.....my 91 300/6 prefurs it but at 11 mpg it gets the 87/10 percent ethonol...you need lead additve for your vintage ride...

[@velofan.]

Thank you. I feel additive might be my way to go in the uk. But I am glad to hear in america ethanol free is available