One Dye, Six Woods: Will the Colour stay the same?

[@KingBespokeCreations]

🌟Which is your final favourite?🌟

[@migrantfamily]

The ash was stunning, the dye really brought out the grain. I was surprised that the pine got so much darker.

[@KingBespokeCreations]

@@migrantfamily me too. I think with the pine, it’s the lighter grains that soak up the dye. That leaves the darker grains and the colour visible.

[@Tinmouser]

The Ash with those cathedrals was the winner for me. It would look amazing as a guitar body. I wanted this exact same effect for a backgammon board I wanted to make so did a few small tests on cutoffs. Where I live hardwood suppliers are rare, so I only have easy access to red pine, white pine, cherry and outdoor decking materials like cedar and Ippe. I've tried tinting these woods red while keeping the grain visible. I found the pines and cherry gave really splotchy results, the cedar was a bit better but the colour was not very appealing. I have heard (but haven't tried) possibly tinting shellac with dyes and using that as a tinted sealing coat might help with the splotchiness, but then you have to deal with the yellow tint of shellac. I get the feeling it would go more orange than red. Does anyone have any ideas, experience or advice?

[@KingBespokeCreations]

@@Tinmouser it’s all a big experiment isn’t it! Try staining shellac, I’ve also been told you can stain grain filler and sanding sealers too

[@YeOldeThrashDude]

Good video. There's an alternative if you wanted to keep more of the color of the stain popping through and that's to seal the wood after the fact with a couple of light coats of shellac following the stain process. Put a nice lacquer top coat over that, and it'll last you for years. Alternatively, you can leave the finish open pore, but I wouldn't recommend doing that unless it's ash or probably oak. All the stain comes through that way and it really is a lovely finish. Another alternative, as you already suggested, is to put the sealer on before you stain. Now, if you're going to do that, always use a darker sealer for contrast. Works great with mahogany. Just sand it back to even and apply your stain.

[@migrantfamily]

I expect the oak to take the dye grudgingly and give a less pleasing result. The basswood will be flat but a nice colour. The maple will be blue and lovely, the others will be interesting to find out.

[@reijerlincoln]

The Nitor grain filler is also a sanding sealer. I think that accounts for how much dye is soaked up by the surface.

[@veguitars]

Thank you for this beautiful illustration. 😊 The grain filler question is nicely addressed🎉 My favorite in the vid is the ash. Generally though I'm a big fan of maple and how it pop s under finish. To make the case for grain filler after stain, I think the perfect use case would be if you wanted to accent the grain with a totally different color. You'd stain the filler before rubbing on. Like the shosugi ban stuff. Cheers V

[@KingBespokeCreations]

@@veguitars ooh, I’ll be trying that 👍

[@ericgiova1663]

These tests are very useful, and there are some notable differences between the different samples. Personally, I like to see wood through colour. Thank you for taking the time.

[@KingBespokeCreations]

@@ericgiova1663 my pleasure. Hope it helps future projects

[@RuneCarverLLC]

@2:16 I carve a lot in Basswood and without watching the rest of the video I'm going to say, Basswood turns out to be the most neutral wood for that pigment as my experience has shown that Basswood doesn't alter or flavor the stains or paint pigments. Fingers crossed... 🤞🤞🤞 .... @16:04 💁 Yup, basswood stayed completely neutral and let the stains and sealants give their desired color... no messing around with basswood, you always know what you're going to get! 👍👍👍

[@KingBespokeCreations]

@@RuneCarverLLC bang on!

[@simonmoore2549]

Basswood

[@thetechman143]

G day mate. Good point. From what l have worked out over years is quality and some dye's & inks are too thin & prone to fade from being too thinned out, but some quality inks & dye's standard, spot on under any finish.

[@KingBespokeCreations]

@@thetechman143 true, cheap dyes are pretty much a waste of time.

[@thetechman143]

They don't take too long to fade in sunlight with cheap stuff.

[@Eeklex]

Very eye-opening demo. Thanks! Have you tried pre-stain treatment products? I recently saw a test-on-scrap photo from a builder working with alder (which is susceptible to blotchiness when dyed). He used grain filler (not normal with alder) and a water-based treatment from Varathane, and side-by-side demoed stain-only, stain+treatment, and stain+treatment over filler. The third was dramatically best. - Paul

[@KingBespokeCreations]

@@Eeklex interesting, thank you 👍

[@lieslehattan643]

😮 wow

[@KingBespokeCreations]

@@lieslehattan643 😘

[@MarkMcCluney]

Excellent experiment. I think the ash worked out best. Quick question - what's the difference between a dye and a stain? Cheers mate.

[@KingBespokeCreations]

@@MarkMcCluney I don’t think there is one to be honest. Probably more about what the company called it! They should both sink into the wood rather than sit on top.

[@RuneCarverLLC]

Today the names get used interchangeably, but I make my own stains and dyes and can add this from how it was understood in the old days... A dye was a type of stain that had used a significant solvent that caused the material or wood to be able to accept deep penetration and allow the pigments to deeply embed themselves in the product. A dye also has no protectant and needs to be sealed when used. A stain on the other hand is more topical solution and may use a solvent and a binder, but can be used to enhance delicate grain features, whereas dyes simply penetrate deeper and provide more color control. A dye is also left on fora long time and often applied heavy or even soaked in a tub or pressure pot, whereas a stain is brushed, sprayed or wiped on and removed almost immediately (within a few minutes) as leaving it in longer will not benefit the protect and y make it gummy or sticky and not able to reduce a good sealer like oil without always being tacky/sticky (this is from the binders being left in the air to dry out too much... now the binder wants to bind with your sealant, and this is going to cause a forever problem). Short answer (for the customer)- Stains: wipe on, wipe off, you can do multiple repeats. Dyes: heavy on, let it set, cure and usually no repeats necessary. Nowadays both may a heavy solvent smell. ... Ex. Some old books separate the two between whether it's a natural colorant, like blueberries or coffee or grass, and whether a solvent was used or not… So it's easy to confuse between a dye and a stain. You may think of it this way as well… I have a coffee stain on my T-shirt and on my unfinished wood table, but I can still see the natural colors and fibers and details. Whereas, (generally) if we dye a T-shirt or wood, then all detail of the fabric is lost, and only the dye remains, the same with wood the finer detail is greatly lessened and only the strongest grains remain.

[@KingBespokeCreations]

@@RuneCarverLLC and there’s your answer! Thank you very much for that 👍

[@MarkMcCluney]

@@RuneCarverLLC Thank you, that's a comprehensive answer. I certainly understand about some stains leaving a sticky finish, that can be a problem and I can see now that I've been using them wrong. Thanks again.

[@Boethius4748]

Filler before or after dye. Neither for me lol. Coat of vinyl sealer, clear filler, 2nd coat of vinyl. Usually Aquacoat filler for me but Goodfilla also makes a clear that looks promising. Not saying this is THE way. Just one that works for me.

[@KingBespokeCreations]

@@Boethius4748 i’ll take any hints and tips when it comes to clear laquer coats!

[@Boethius4748]

@@KingBespokeCreations I’m not a master finisher by any means. I was lucky enough to learn from a guy who is good at it. The reason I do it the way I do is because I mostly use water soluble powders and I spray them. If I fill before it never takes the dye quite right unless the color is pretty dark. If I fill after then I have to match the fill. I don’t like either situation. I usually shoot a slightly heavy seal coat after dye. It helps keep my ham-fisted self from breaking into the color when I’m sanding the filler. 2nd seal coat as normal locks it in. I use solvent based sealer and lacquer, btw. I know that’s not for everyone but I mention it to indicate I don’t know if a water borne would necessitate any changes. Once that’s all done I can shoot a toner coat (from spirit soluble powders) if I feel like the color needs adjusted or I didn’t get the uniformity I needed.

[@KingBespokeCreations]

@@Boethius4748 thank you for that 🙏🏻

[@PiroozNasir-fb1tc]

I think, ash will be the best.

[@KingBespokeCreations]

@@PiroozNasir-fb1tc were you right?

[@theendofblue2225]

hi Chris, excellent video, not as smart as you I wanted to have a blue guitar, my wood was oak from a house from 1748....it turned out nearly black....happy little accident, I kept it that way ;-)

[@KingBespokeCreations]

@@theendofblue2225 it sounds lovely! 👍