Taoism's Naturalness vs Western Righteousness

In this podcast, we will explain Taoism's naturalness versus the righteousness of the West and any external system of governance claiming to be the moral norm of all. This is the twenty-ninth episode of the 81 Meditations of the Tao Te Ching, a series where we explore each chapter of the Tao Te Ching. We will dissect chapter twenty-nine of the Tao Te Ching to give you ultimate clarity on the meaning of this chapter.
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[@JasonGregoryAuthor]

Please hit the thumbs up, subscribe, and comment. I'd appreciate that deeply. To get exclusive content and livestream replays become a member on Patreon www.patreon.com/jasongregory You can also support me on Paypal www.paypal.me/JasonGregoryAuthor I also have new merchandise available at teespring.com/stores/jason-gregory Your support helps the channel grow. Only love for all.

[@richardwong5670]

Great podcast. I'm Chinese Taoist and this was on point and only english speaking podcast on my tradition I listen to. I think some people in the west have wrong idea of Taoism. However jason and guyang always nails it.

[@milekrizman]

Is it true that chinese communists tryed to destroy chinese taoist tradition during cultural revolution?

[@richardwong5670]

​@@milekrizman of course. Communism/Marxism have no tolerance for spiritual beliefs. Buddhism also suffered same problems. Tibet got destroyed during cultural revolution. I though this is common knowledge outside china and only surpressed here. Maybe it is surpressed outside too? Communist party also destroy Guan Yin statue recently and Taoism under constant threat by foreign ideology of communism. Outside china must never take on communism. Most people here want to revert back to our roots of Taoism and Buddhism.

[@malwar21]

If Taoism is true then it must be passive, How else could Christianity/Western culture dominant the globe?

[@milekrizman]

@@malwar21 well, couple of decades ago popular slogan on T shirts was - Just do it. Now it is - just do nothing.

[@malwar21]

@@milekrizman If Taoism is "the way" then it is universal. That is the Taosim I know and love.❤ If Taosim is spoken in relation to other things (ie, Chriatainity or Western culture, or T-Shirts 😉) then that is NOT Tao that I know and love.

[@DawnyDarko]

Wow, what is lacking in spirituality and humanity is conversations like this. Thank you 🙏

[@taishici5]

"Don't lose that love in your heart." So succinct and true. Thank you both!

[@meredithhoffman5215]

This is liberating as many of your talks are from my conditioning as an American Christian raised woman and I’m so grateful to add these to my practice of listening daily to Dhamma and I share with my six adult children and some grandchildren Thank you both 🙏

[@thecomment9489]

This is a really interesting and insightful podcast discussion. And this also puts in right perspective the Western promotion of their version of "freedom and democracy".

[@marie22tully10]

There's nothing free about 87,000 armed IRS agents. The West is becoming more authoritarian by the day.

[@RC0921]

I'm a hindu and u guys have very clear understanding than any other non Indians and most Indians.

[@tobinharris8107]

There is nothing worse than righteousness, which leads to extremism, which has poisoned our world of late. We must lead by example with humility, not might. Moderation is difficult, for sure, but the Rx for these times does seem to be moderation/equanimity. Thank you guys.

[@globetwig4401]

Thanks for the enjoyable conversation.

[@Simon-vt1zp]

Thanks for another great video. 🙏 If you stroke a horse, and follow the natural growth of the hair, it’s smooth. If you stroke against the natural growth then it’s rough. 🙏🕉

[@garysnider3000]

Loving kindness to both of you AND another thoughtful teaching. Enough said. ;)

[@VitaFlare]

Thank you for your life’s work, we are grateful for you Jason and Gayoung. Please consider dissecting the Chuang Tzu in this podcast format as it would help many find a slightly more obscure but just as powerful taoist text.

[@boesposito]

So grateful for your little chit chat while sitting silently, listening, doing nothing...

[@robertholland7558]

Sitting silently and listening is anything but doing nothing. Many no longer are able to do so.

[@DavidMcGrath-t8z]

Just wanted to thank you both, and that I feel the virtue of the good as I listen.......David

[@being-Lisa]

Thank you so much Gayong and Jason for another excellent video. I love this channel ❤️

[@pavel_shui]

You played "the string." Thank you, deeply appreciate your work 🙏

[@cluck_cluck]

So many really interesting and valid points that I want to comment on, but you summed it up so well at the end with “keep the love in your heart people”. Truth 🙏 💕

[@victoriaburgess700]

Love this! I’m a registered dietitian that practices/educates my clients on intuitive eating which is listening to the body….following the natural way the body wants food, or doesn’t. Love love love the part about veganism! So many people I speak with are confused about is this a healthier way; they listened to a lot of internet craziness.

[@AJScraps]

Very awesome insight as always, thanks for the content! 🙇🏻‍♂️

[@scarbie32]

Really enjoyed that, gave me some fresh and useful insight. Thank you guys. I liked the ending points about not turning these discussions into fanatical ammunition. ✌️

[@GrandmaBirdy]

Thank you! Excellent conversation

[@Chickarina1]

I enjoyed this chapter. Thank you ✨

[@adamkelly2256]

Hello Gayoung & Jason. I love this format. Do you plan to have this as a regular feature? (eg. monthly)

[@JasonGregoryAuthor]

Hi Adam. Thank you for your kind words, my friend. We actually have over 100 podcasts in my video library. We usually put them out once a fortnight. Here is the playlist kzbin.info/aero/PL1lNgETCPx7RrecYqTTEk-JAUm5WmpRXE

[@johnc.6645]

This discussion of chapter 29 was brilliant. I have seen every part of this country and witnessed what man's desire to conquer nature has done to wetlands and beautiful forest. I look at how you "have to take a stand" has pitted one group of extremist against another. Moderation is now considered a serious personality flaw. Man's war against nature is already backfiring with droughts, floods and fires. Your example of soybean farms destroying rain forrest to suit dietary extremism was brilliantly stated. Anyway special love to you and MeYong for your work. I'm afraid Brother that man's war on nature and each other may have gone beyond the point of no return. Nature will definitely win this one. But with that said, I am at personal peace because of the Tao, and take comfort in knowing that people like you are spreading the message without anger and extremism fueling your message.

[@freetibet1000]

This is such an important topic and I really thank you for bringing up this perspective of the eastern spiritual traditions being the way to heal what have been so damaged by western thinking and culture. We don’t have to believe in the western idea that as human beings we are apex predators that operate on that type of instincts. If indeed the bible talks about us human beings in that way then clearly that book was not written out of a state of wisdom but rather out of some political ambitions instead. As a practicing European Buddhist I can very clearly feel this division within the hearts of my fellow human beings here. We have been taught to exploit and conquer our ways through life and yet we all feel how we are made up of a far more tender and compassionate nature inside. This division within the minds of western people becomes so evident and I think music, art and literature have become the few sanctuaries where the western mind is allowed to rest in its own tender and compassionate nature. Meanwhile the machinery of destruction continuous unrelentingly. The result of this mad division within the western culture and mind is clearly showing its flawed nature now. It has become very clear to a lot of westerners that our way of thinking and acting is going to destroy the world, and yet very few of us are able to do much about it. I believe this paralyzes stems from the very deeply ingrained division or conflict that every western mind struggles with. I very rarely hear a person from the west saying that a balance and harmony can be achieved. All I hear them say is that the human condition is state of constant struggle. To me that sounds like something very fundamentally important is missing in the western culture and education. The western mind needs a reprogramming and restart that includes a vision that balance and harmony is possible in the world and within ourselves. As long as this is lacking we shouldn’t be surprised why so many people in the west drink alcohol excessively and do drugs until it’s a too late to recover.

[@ShraddaNiche]

Good Morning 🙏

[@nightandday8267]

34:44 - BINGO! "Culture is not your friend."

[@euclidofalexandria3786]

Thank you guys for the great vid as always, keep up the great posts.

[@ryanthomas5643]

Great talk, but I do have a few thoughts: 1. I think your point could be made stronger by abandoning the East/West dichotomy. Philosophies of nature can be found in Western culture (Cynicism, Stoicism) and examples of Righteousness can be found in the East (Confucianism). While I agree the Abrahamic faiths are a stronger foil for this specific point, Confucianism was the foil that Taoist authors traditionally used to make this point. Perhaps there is an opportunity to discuss what "natural" means in the context of Taoism versus Stoicism. 2. I think conceptualizing the "Righteousness" lifestyles as being "Identitarian" may be a more useful framework. I loved the example of "mutual respect" rather than "tolerance" you provided. Individuals that base their identities and criticisms of culture more generally on moralized beliefs cannot have mutual respect for others. As a vegan, I disagreed with some of what you said, but definitely see where you're coming from. I live in Portland, OR and see examples of Vegan Identitarianism around me. We're not all extremists or purists though. I live in a market society that can provide a healthy plant-based diet. Those same market mechanisms that create abundance of produce also create perverse incentives around the treatment of animals. I can avoid it. Not everyone can. Not everyone should. I don't judge my wife for eating meat and I don't love people less for wearing leather boots to a worksite. But approaching market interactions as a vegan doesn't mean it is fundamental to my identity, and that's the difference I'm trying to sus out. I really love these talks and appreciate all of the work that you do.

[@donbrady1173]

Another monumental masterpiece of magnificent mental mastication. So deep so simple so hard for the west to grasp.

[@catalinalladovidal2533]

Thanks Gayoung and Jason 🙏🏻

[@allenhowell1574]

Excellent conversation. This is why whenever I hear people going on about the "power of intention" or "manifesting" that my head wants to explode. How ego-centric of us to think we can magically make the Universe bend to our will, and how sad that we fear if we don't improve the world (or ourselves) then we must be a failure.

[@marie22tully10]

I agree! I'm so tired of people trying to tell me the Law of Attraction is about more than stuff. The books have ridiculous exercises like writing checks to yourself. It seems to treat the Universe like Santa Clause.

[@colemarsh13]

Thank you Thank you Thank you 😊 🙏🏻 ☺️

[@blueskyoutside9000]

Love this talk, so helpful ✨

[@thelostchild6538]

Really appreciate this, these talks are really great rimenders

[@Tescheniz]

The wisdom was, is and will be, always openly displayed in this world, ready to pick up for those who want to know, who want to see. All you have to do is to open your eyes, to think for yourself and ask questions. The answers will come - in form of this insightful dialogue perhaps? Raised as a Catholic this religion put fear and guilt upon me. It taught me to believe instead to know! These are good instruments to influence the masses (not only for religious purposes though, as the recent, still ongoing “events” show!). I enjoyed this dialog. Thanks :)

[@mariamalhotra8228]

Thank you for referring to Rajiv Malhotra's "Being Different". It really helped to unshackle my mind and DECOLONIZE! (no relation to Rajiv M)

[@chandraravikumar]

Please pardon a personal comment. You look quite young. The age that most young persons are looking to make money, contacts, status, have a good time, collect things, and the like. However did you get interested in, begin to delve into, and learn to express and share with thousands of people the search into Wisdom? I was impressed with your interaction with the most subtle and enigmatic philosophical expositions of the world, the “ Avadhutha Geetha”. It is so simple and pure that the normal person will find it difficult to get a grip on it.

[@andrewpassow2712]

great sane discussion of the TAO. which is a form of pantheism - 'look to nature' for how to live and lead a life. A life of harmony - seek to harmonize elements, NOT this urge to dominate and control; and not a constant NEED to compare and be on one side or the other. it's really a stage in the development of humankind; that we won't reach in my lifetime

[@intp2intp]

I propose that this is not a battle between schools of thought. Or the East and the West. But rather actually, the "concept" of schools of thought and dualism itself are causing the problems. If I can have an opinion without labeling it with a school of thought and without needing the support of a school of thought to maintain, then I am "pure". As it was written, "The Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao". Thus, by naming and siding with schools, we are no longer "one with Tao". To have no school and no side, without "trying to be neutral", is to be one with Tao. Here, this melds with Zen thought a bit. It is No-Mind. It is fascinating to see that this conceptual battlefield is the cause of all of our suffering. And it is mainly in times of tragedy that we realize just how much we have been fighting conceptual phantom against conceptual phantom. We realize that all that truly exists is Life. Breath. All this being said, I can understand that to embody this fully is to lose the ability to communicate with most people in the world.

[@happbe1552]

Subscribed 🛎️Liked👍🏻Shared↗️Commented✍🏻

[@annekelourdes1238]

Yes, this is so true..I was in christian communitiy, when very young..4 years of preaching also noncence like only Jesus is the way, pastor even joked about Krishna etc, he was manipulating when it comed for money. He said give God as much as you feel, saying let's see how big your heart is..of course money was for the pastor and his family. One has to really open his eyes to see all of this, thank God was one of them. Not saying all of them are bad, not at all, some are nice and respect you for what you are. Btw, no one can really say, only this or that is the way, that is not wisdom. Thank you both and bless you.❤✌

[@mariamalhotra8228]

Binge-watching

[@cassiesmith1294]

Beautiful video, thank you! Are you sure you don’t want to start your own cult?? Ha ha! Don’t lose the love in your heart, that was just beautiful and I am learning that the middle way truly is beautiful 💕

[@jodiparry111]

I am interested in this.. so do we try to change it now? Or do we see it as nature? Is this not the failing the more we try to control it? Another paradox..

[@RC0921]

Love u guys❤❤❤❤

[@joshuawest3257]

I agree with everything you guys are saying and doing. Still, I ask you this-if it is so essential to live in a culture that doesn't have imperialistic ways, which I do in America, then I am wrong to think that I can improve on the imperialistic culture as it stands today. i.e. I can go with the flow of western culture because of the very subjects you guys are talking about. As always, I love these podcasts!☯☸🕉

[@nowanobady]

thank you ...

[@MichaelLittle47]

Also, I wanted to add (see previous comment) that the Bible is a set of literature that has been hand picked, and then set apart, from its proper context. (With it's proper context being the rest of the world's wisdom traditions.) Not only has it been separated in this manner, but also from the greater body of ancient period literature that originally surrounded and informed its words. These efforts towards exclusivism have resulted in the most disastrous results in terms of its understanding and practice. Such was done due to the agendas of world powers which usurped these works in order to employ them toward their own ends.

[@donbrady1173]

I have been in or thru a ton of Christian groups and see so much confusion. They don't listen with the heart but the intellect which parrots these hypnotic beliefs. They do things by rote which is a trance inducing mechanism. So thinking God is with them they feel free to condemn others because they have this book ( doctrine) thier bible which has been put together with several languages such as Greek Latin Hebrew Aramaic etc . Even Yashua if that was even his name was changed to a Greek Sun god.

[@daniel542]

I'm glad you finally got round to mentioning Judaism and The Abrahamic faiths. It is after all Judaism that teaches Jews are God's chosen people and that they have a special relationship with God. Not defending Christianity in any way, just telling it like it is.

[@savoirfaire6181]

I love both of you. You've really helped to clarify a lot for me. Your talks are inspiring and amazing and I really love what you're getting at. I'm extremely fascinated by questions of technology and simplicity and have an instinct for the later but I have a question that challenges me. How should a Taoist respond to the argument of the so called "Natural Fallacy" where a philosopher may argue that there is no such thing as an ethic of being natural since "nature" is simply "what is" in any form, including transhumanism itself? If all is nature then nature is all. I believe the channel Philosophytube offers up this argument, for instance. There's a primitive ethic in following nature which transhumanists argue is invalid because it's in human nature to "transcend nature" anyway. They would argue this is merely plummeting the depths of nature. It goes something like that. Transhumanism is thus natural. Technology is natural. Modern destruction of the planet through technology is natural. So on and so forth. If you have a discussion of this in one of your books then point me in the right direction but I hope you have time to answer here briefly as well.

[@euclidofalexandria3786]

Great vid, if the deck of cards, dice, book (say a sentence and let me flip to every single word you said), they are completely decided, and mapped, that kind of randomness, extrapolate....

[@robynwells8249]

Good Morning, I grew up in an Evangelical household. The reason that Christians have a difficult time accepting other religions is because in Christianity the “only” way you can be saved-meaning not going to Hell is by accepting that Jesus is the son of god and died for your sins. It took awhile for me to shake off this mindset. Once I did I have become a much more compassionate person. While I don’t identify with a religion I do incorporate Buddhist and Taoist practices into my life.

[@jaredavilez6167]

A thought I have, that was sparked by this chapter , that I would like to respectfully share. Extremist beliefs, attitudes, and actions exist in the west and the east. In fact separating east from west is a dualistic and an extreme view in a sense. We are of one sacred universe. The dao flows through us not about us, some are more in touch with it than others. Residing in our yin energy in mind body and spirit is a wise path indeed. There are times of drought, famine, and natural disasters, we can only weather the storm. Trying to fight it would be a waste of precious energy. With enough practice of keeping to the middle, living in Harmony with ourselves and nature, we can learn to anticipate these occurrences. But many times after a storm there is opportunity for growth. Be wise in how we view the world and our place within it and how we chose to engage our energies. Random thought dump over. This was a good video discussion that gave me much to think about and sit with. 🙏

[@euclidofalexandria3786]

Purity, should it be intermingled with all other things in the kosmos? what would the Old heavens say about this?

[@euclidofalexandria3786]

Like my sifu said, no shoulds musts and have tos, why would you keep doing that to a person who is already done and pure?

[@mocp369]

nice cup..suits gayoung tshirt hehe

[@levlevin182]

Naturally naturalness is connected to our true nature. As far as righteousness goes, it makes for some unhappy people.

[@euclidofalexandria3786]

32:50 secs, perhaps righteousness then is a type of filling in of the deficit of a lack of rallying around the flag,( rally round the flag tag )ya know :-)

[@euclidofalexandria3786]

Individuality is truly found in unity...

[@euclidofalexandria3786]

Patanjali sutra

[@MichaelLittle47]

The actual Biblical injunction is to "serve it and keep it" in reference to the Garden of Eden. So this is asking us to be good stewards of the planet. (as we must, since our reasoning capacity is far above the animal kingdom) Even the term righteousness has been similarly twisted away from its actual meaning. It's actual meaning is a lot closer to "right view", right thought, right action, as espoused in the Buddhist 8 fold path; with the most important aspect being humility. Once again history, culture and so forth, have largely ignored these original instructions.

[@angryherbalgerbil]

"nothing to improve, nothing to conquer"? So no need to build shelter? Have warm clothes? Gather/harvest? Conquer no, yet we are all here because of the "improvements" watching a youtube video in a comfortable place, well fed. And okay these are material things, yet they are improvements that are appreciated and have reduced suffering. These 'improvements,' come about because people conquered their ego, and their inner landscape, and so the Tao moved through them, doing nothing, leaving nothing undone. I'm willing to use pragmatic philosophy as a go to in this scenario, not my usual ground, but when something works, it works. If we were to adhere entirely to the idea that nothing can be improved, how much more would we suffer? The world is improved by the Tao, and we are the means towards it's outflowing of ideas, concepts, creations.

[@bharatrevival1275]

You seriously missed the point of what is said. You actual got trigger about this. Weird. I find online some people have hard time understand nuance or thinking intuitively. Tao doesn't improve the world. Tao is what is already there before our conditioned minds thinks it is not good enough.

[@cinza7881]

Does that lady have her own channel?

[@donbrady1173]

Have you ever delved into Kinesiology.? Yashua and Budda both calibrate at 1000 according to David Hawkins. That implies a parallel to me

[@idonotlikethismusic]

Thank you for the discussion. I agree with much of what you say about having love in your hearts, not judging, not become fanatic. But your thoughts and arguments around veganism are severely misguided. I understand how you can feel that the vegan movement has its roots in the Western/Christian drive to proselytize - I've thought the same thing myself - but that is a simplistic way to look at it, and it's it's plain wrong to say that veganism is associated to Christianity. Veganism, when understood properly, is about reducing and minimizing the suffering, harm, exploitation, and violence humans inflict upon other animals for our benefit, pleasure, and survival, when there is no need. For the vast majority of the human population, that means there is no need to eat animal foods. You imply that is "extreme," but calling something "extreme" as a way to discredit is a poor form of argument. For example, it is a moral edict not to kill - ever. Is it "extreme" to NEVER kill? Yes, but sometimes what is right must be extreme. And the fact is that vast majority of humans do not need animals. Veganism may originated as a concept in a Christian country, but it has nothing to do with veganism. You also raise a few points of arguments that vegans have been hearing and addressing for decades, so it's sad that you're either not properly informed about vegan debates for whatever reason or just overlooking the already existing responses to your straw man arguments. For example, you ask should we cut down rainforests to grow soybeans so that we don't eat meat. If you had done even some basic research into the veganism and surrounding issues, it would become quickly clear that the majority of rainforest is being cleared to grow soybeans to feed farm animals, and that animals consume most of the grain etc. grown. You also ask what about the Inuit and Masai. If vegans could count how many times "Inuit" have been mentioned in arguments against them, we'd be rich. Vegans aren't stupid. We're not trying to go around converting remote, tribal peoples to veganism. We're not saying the Inuit or Masai or bad or immoral people or "evil" as you say. What vegans have you met or heard that have said that? That's another straw man argument. These tribal, remote people are some of the most dispossessed, marginalized, and vulnerable communities on the planet, and they don't have the ability to be vegan. Let them live their culture. Vegans are talking about the 99%+ of the human population that lives in connected society. We have modern medicine, technology etc. to help us get a full nutritional profile without having to resort to killing animals, most of which are bred to live miserable short lives. We don't have to do that. And, as a vegan a person doesn't have to eat an Impossible burger or any of that processed stuff. Those companies don't even market to vegans; they market to people who eat meat. And veganism is not about eating "trendy superfoods" or anything like. One can eat very simply and affordably as a vegan. The trendy superfood is just modern money-making marketing. You also keep saying we should be natural, live in balance with nature, etc. I agree. But let's be realistic here. We use cell phones and the internet, upload videos to KZbin, travel in airplanes. None of that is in "nature" per se. If humans can modify their environment and modify nature in these ways, why can't they modify their nature and stop relying on animals for food. Spirituality requires vegetarianism/veganism, ultimately. Central to any spiritual tradition requires compassion, but and that includes compassion to other animals. And compassion to other animals requires not killing, harming, or eating them when we have plenty of other options. Also, most of the vegans today aren't influenced by Hinduism. I don't know where you got that from. Furthermore, if anything is out of balance and nature today, it is the scale of animal foods consumption humans do today and the amount of violence inflict on animals. Veganism is not the "moral flavor of the time" as you condescendingly call it. It is the timeless value of nonviolence, that also applies to human relations with other animals. HUmans just have exploited animals for so long that it's extremely hard for people to imagine a world without it. Lastly, I will say that I'm Asian myself (Indian), and Hindu culture is both holistic/naturalistic but also emphasizes righteousness without fundamentalism and fanaticism. Those two aren't mutually exclusive. It is possible to realize that humans shouldn't meddle with nature and nature is good as it is, but also realize that humans have control over their behavior and can make choices that other animals cannot. And as a vegan activist myself, your statement at the end that some activists are peaceful but the majority are angry is just plain wrong. There are angry ones, but there are many more who are understanding and compassionate and non-judgmental towards non-vegans. Let me also address what your co-host said 13:30 about violence. Veganism has NEVER been about violence; vegans have NEVER harmed another human being. A few vegans may have destroyed property such as slaughterhouses or labs, but that is very uncommon. Indeed, most movements seeking justice don't turn violent but your co-host generalizes so broadly that it reveals that you and she are understanding this issue of veganism and other causes through your spiritual lens incorrectly. It is great to see a channel such as yours discussing spiritual issues, but you and your co-host really need to explore the veganism issue more than you seem to have, talk to more vegans, etc. because you speak with such certainty about issues (veganism, activism) you are so wrong about. And as someone who sees value in spiritual discourse and dialogue and has been around spiritual or religious people of the Hindu tradition, I am always disappointed but also amused at how spiritual people will contort into all sorts of pretzels to keep the status quo of animal consumption and use in place, ultimately to not let go of what they like, eating animal foods. Sorry for the long comment; there was much to address in your discussion. Thank you!

[@rusty_rockets]

Thank you. Very well said.

[@harrygreen3277]

People who are pro vegan in this comment section are conveniently ignoring my comments because it doesn't suit your narrative. You wrote all of that for no reason and are not getting proper news sources. I am on the ground and this is the reality. I would say study regenerative farming first. In Borneo and the Amazon they are destroying thousand year old forests for soybean and palm oil. I worked for a group in Borneo and the Amazon to stop the production which failed. And yes, the cultivation weren't being used for livestock. Maybe in some other places, but not there. With the rise of vegan supplements and vege oil more land is required and in places like Borneo and Brazil the dollar is more important than nature. There is nothing wrong with eating meat, even though the media are trying to demonize it. That is how our brain developed and it is natural. The way you are as a human being is because of animal protein and fats. It can be hard for a self-righteous person to humble themselves to the way of nature and eat what is required as humans. Chinese medicine linked to Taoism also promote eating animal protein and fats as they are great for the brain and basically everything else. The problem is, and what Jason and Gayoung were saying, is turning veganism into an ideology is the problem. It becomes like Christianity because one feels they can tell others that they are heathens for eating meat. In the West we turn everything into an ideology, race, religion, nations, gender and even diet. It can be exhausting. The point of the podcast is can you follow the tenets of Taoism and allow the world to be or are you trying to push your beliefs on others? Also, they didn't condemn eating a vegan diet for which you are triggered. They just mentioned the Western mentality of turning it into an us vs them thing similar to Christianity, for which you obviously subscribe. In the end, you tried to butter them up by saying you agree and then you gave them an incorrect view of your mind. That is weakness. Just be triggered and stay triggered.

[@spiritlife3942]

You are so far off from the truth. I must just be a evil cattle farmer. Read my comment. It is a fact that an ethical meat industry uses far less resources than an unnatural vegan diet. A fact you will have to live with. It is all about money and they have obviously sold you on the idea.

[@idonotlikethismusic]

@@spiritlife3942 I'm not sure whom you're replying to (I can't see one of the comments), but the reality is that you are the one who is far from the truth. First of all, no one is saying cattle farmers, or anyone else, is evil. I certainly am not saying that. What I am saying is that there is no "ethical meat industry." That concept, like "humane meat" is an oxymoron. You can't have ethical or humane meat b/c meat fundamentally involves taking the life of conscious being who feels pain, suffers, etc., when there is no need to take that life. The meat industry turns a living, breathing sentient being into an economic commodity, and that is fundamentally unethical. I don't know where you're getting that the "ethical meat industry" (whatever that is) uses far less resources than veganism, but let's be clear here. Assuming you mean free-range, grass-fed, non-factory farmed meat, that "ethical meat industry" is no more than a few percent of all meat. The only way to feed 7 billion people meat is through intensive, factory farmed agriculture. Also, let's be clear who here is "all about the money." Vegans do not get any financial benefit from being vegan and advocating for animals. If the world were to go vegan, I wouldn't see any financial benefit. It is YOU, the cattle farmer, who benefits from the current economic system as it is b/c that's how you make your money: raising cattle to slaughter and sell for beef. I know farming and ranching is hard work and doesn't make anyone filthy rich, but let's be honest here: veganism threatens your line of work and livelihood, so if anyone can be labeled economically motivated in this discussion, it would be you. As the author Upton Sinclair said, "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it."

[@rusty_rockets]

@@spiritlife3942 Your problem is not that you are an "evil cattle farmer". Your problem is that you cannot see the contradiction and hypocrisy in using the term "ethical" when talking about the meat industry. Killing innocent animals that do not want to die is not ethical.

[@SithSolomon]

I agree. However . There are no absolutes. There will always be impermanence. The ultimate goal is balance.

[@danyellerobinson5940]

When we set it up as one side versus another, we are distracted from the middle path. Western Indigenous People call it the Red Road. It is not lost. It is influenced to varied degrees among the bands and clans of Turtle Island by colonization, Christianity, and more than 500 years of genocide. It is not humans against nature. Indigenous people around the world know that we are part of nature. It is known as original or sacred instructions. Most Christains also come from similar ancestral beliefs -- prior to the genocide of their spiritual leaders. You keep saying it is America, but historically it came from the Western Europe after they were colonized by Rome. None of it Christ-like. I think that all the greatest world religous teachers are based in love and natural balance.

[@nicholasburch2122]

I don't want the Tao interpreted for me. That's the whole pleasure of existence.

[@richardwong5670]

Your comment shows you don't understand Tao so you will continue to move blindly through the world. Please don't appropriate Tao to your own view of it. Westerners find it so hard to learn and be humble. Jason and his wife are the exception cause they are true Taoists. Taoism is a rich tradition and to learn more about it you need to be humble. You sound like you just want life to be the way you want it. That is ego. When you want to be humble you will be ready to learn more. Learning from the Tao Te Ching is the most important for those serious about Tao.

[@nicholasburch2122]

@@richardwong5670 hahahahahhahahaha

[@nicholasburch2122]

@@richardwong5670 i just have to tell you how stupid what you said was hahhaha im sorry kind of

[@sallymartin6184]

[@Bonnie-Lewis-Australia]

So glad you haven’t brought into the vegan and vegetarian movement- it’s an inconvenient truth that we are pretty much carnivores- I honestly would rather not eat meat but it’s a fact of life- we must treat animals we need to survive with respect though -,also the woke movement is truly devisive

[@JuanPreciado87]

In my opinion Confucianism is precisely a clear example of rigidity. Often in Asia I can see an excess of respect to the authorities , conformity, very strict social or family roles, fear of social judgement (“saving face”), etc… In the West I see that humanism, existentialism, agnosticism, atheism or some ancient Greek philosophies can often be more liberal. They lead to much-needed critical thinking. So categorizing and generalizing between East and West in this case seems wrong to me.

[@donbrady1173]

What is the field?

[@Jay_Kayy]

So is killing animals for food good or bad. I respect all life forms so I am vegan. I believe all life deserves to experience life and happiness. Do I have a right to take away that life for bodily gain?

[@harrygreen3277]

@@ricos1497 actually its not an error. I would say study regenerative farming first. In Borneo and the Amazon they are destroying thousand year old forests for soybean and palm oil. I worked for a group in Borneo and the Amazon to stop the production which failed. And yes, the cultivation weren't being used for livestock. Maybe in some other places, but not there. With the rise of vegan supplements and vege oil more land is required and in places like Borneo and Brazil the dollar is more important than nature. There is nothing wrong with eating meat. That is how our brain developed and it is natural. The way you are as a human being is because of animal protein and fats. It can be hard for a self-righteous person to humble themselves to the way of nature and eat what is required as humans. Chinese medicine linked to Taoism also promote eating animal protein and fats as they are great for the brain and basically everything else. The problem is, and what Jason and Gayoung were saying, is turning veganism into an ideology is the problem. It becomes like Christianity because one feels they can tell others that they are heathens for eating meat. In the West we turn everything into an ideology, race, religion, nations, gender and even diet. It can be exhausting. The point of the podcast is can you follow the tenets of Taoism and allow the world to be or are you trying to push your beliefs on others?

[@indiawisdom5256]

@@tuesdaysgone2379 so simple isn't it. Life feeds off life. We all serve a purpose in nature. Vegans can be so militant. Funny thing is neither criticized the diet in the podcast but instead highlighted the social justice mentality that can happen by following it.

[@indiawisdom5256]

​@@ricos1497 there you go twisting my words to suit your vegan narrative. I didn't say that meat eating people are saints, I just said vegans "can" be so militant. Maybe you don't know what the word "can" means. You are a violent person who doesn't respect peoples choices. I am a Indian and vegetarian but we respect other cultures. Why don't you? Stick to Christian imperialism, it suits you.

[@spiritlife3942]

@@ricos1497 Your rebuttal is borderline ideological and fanatical. You try to state your point by the farm you see but do you have a overall view? We could say the same about the vegan industry right? The land that is destroyed for plant-based products is horrendous. I am a cattle farmer in Nebraska and my farm has slowly but surely incorporated regenerative farming methods which has been a game changer for ethical farming. However the statements in the comment section about Jason being wrong about the Amazon is false. They surely are using the Amazon for soybeans for vegan use and the plant-based industry projected to be worth 23.4 billion by 2027. That is a fact that vegans will have to deal with once ancient land has been destroyed for their diet. We already have land for animals, why destroy more land? Why do you think Bill Gates is buying all of the farmland here in the states? He is not a dumby, he knows the industry is going to be worth a lot in the future. The fact is it takes far less resources to have a naturally balanced diet than an unnatural vegan diet, and yes it is unnatural. It is funny how Westerners always think they have the right way for the world to live and shame other cultures into following them. The unnaturalness of veganism will be a hard sell though. Keep this in mind when all of you vegans are angry about meat eaters, it takes a lot less resources to eat a naturally balanced diet of meat, vegetable, and fruit. For instance one normal human will only consume just less than one cow in a year. That doesn't take much resources to provide. The vegan diet on the other hand needs a lot of land to create fake foods with soybeans. Again, a fact that vegans have to live with. I'm sure I will be met with hostility by vegans about my statements. However the truth is the truth.

[@richardwong5670]

@@ricos1497 you are out of sync with nature. Taoism need to follow nature. Eating meat part of nature. We develop qi by eating meat. Everything feeds off life. Why you not know something so simple

[@euclidofalexandria3786]

Hard on the inside, soft on the outside :-)

[@oldman_eleven]

🙏🧡✌️

[@yakrider6402]

👍

[@KPm397]

The deforestation to farm soy is primarily used for cattle feed.

[@spiritlife3942]

No its not. Why spread lies? I am a cattle farmer in Nebraska and my farm has slowly but surely incorporated regenerative farming methods which has been a game changer for ethical farming. However the statements in the comment section about Jason being wrong about the Amazon is false. They surely are using the Amazon for soybeans for vegan use and the plant-based industry projected to be worth 23.4 billion by 2027. That is a fact that vegans will have to deal with once ancient land has been destroyed for their diet. We already have land for animals, why destroy more land? Why do you think Bill Gates is buying all of the farmland here in the states? He is not a dumby, he knows the industry is going to be worth a lot in the future. The fact is it takes far less resources to have a naturally balanced diet than an unnatural vegan diet, and yes it is unnatural. It is funny how Westerners always think they have the right way for the world to live and shame other cultures into following them. The unnaturalness of veganism will be a hard sell though. Keep this in mind when all of you vegans are angry about meat eaters, it takes a lot less resources to eat a naturally balanced diet of meat, vegetable, and fruit. For instance one normal human will only consume just less than one cow in a year. That doesn't take much resources to provide. The vegan diet on the other hand needs a lot of land to create fake foods with soybeans. Again, a fact that vegans have to live with. I'm sure I will be met with hostility by vegans about my statements. However the truth is the truth.

[@charly996]

Inspiring as always! My thoughts beg to disagree (somewhat) wrt coloniality and (esp. dogmatic) Christianity: we see this type of “Abrahamic” / “Christian” sense of chosenness, subjugating the earth to multiply and conversion of other faiths as well as hierarchic thinking and structuring of society in indo-European traditions. That’s where it seems to originate from (at least the most workable hypothesis so far). It was strengthened by way of a Platonian streak (among other ancient Greek worldviews) and specifically Paulus (possibly in opposition to a more holistic Jesus) for institutionalized Christianity. This indo-European fabric transmitted to many cultures esp. in and throughout Bronze Age Eurasia may well serve as the soil on which acceptance, adoption or of Christian “western” concepts flourished much later in colonial times and still explains it also in our times.

[@aaronhatefi7897]

How does anyone truly see themselves clearly ? I'm not even sure that's possible

[@jasonc8910]

❤

[@euclidofalexandria3786]

30:40 secs, perhaps in simplicity, the least amount of refletion is found, that is the awareness is closer to true awareness, than discursive darting awareness...

[@magnuscritikaleak5045]

To be honest, quasi Islamic non Christian sects, such as Ismailism, Ahmadiyya, Alawitism and the almost unknown Salar Sufis doesn't claim saving and caring for natur eis "Pagan", they still venerates and assist and promote protection of the Earth natural resources and see the world as a Holistic Logos Godhead entity.

[@euclidofalexandria3786]

27:40 secs, to improve something I would think you would want to study it carefully nonpurturbatively indeed.

[@euclidofalexandria3786]

23:40 secs, controll, hrmmm perhaps then if controll is present it should be unknown, Hum Hum Hum.... the contrlll aspect should of course be towards the bias of positive, love etc etc... but why would such an impetus be cloaked and hidden, it was said that the highest is rarely if ever seen... why would that be :-)

[@donbrady1173]

From psalms First get ye understanding make her your handmaid. That tends to conflict with believe In Jesus. In his day his disciples knew him to be a great prophet.

[@euclidofalexandria3786]

at 12:34 secs, its all from the same source... the people , they think its from diffferent sources, or their religions are different, but the truth is they originate from the same source... so

[@stefanopasquali6868]

Hi to everybody ! I think that the root of our problem lies in the wrong belief that God is a separate being from ourselves and the whole universe. As long we keep believing this, we'll continue killing people and destroying the environment. The only way out of this situation is to become aware that everything is sacred and interconnected. Stefano

[@robertmitchell8630]

I was raised christian but began exploring Hinduism Buddhism taoisim etc and early gnostic teachings of Jesus Christ The teachings of Jesus and the institution Christianity are two different things It's true trying to control and superimpose always leads to chaos Emperor Constantine canonized Jesus'teachings drained it of it's spirituality politicized dogmatized militarized it Jesus like Buddha Krishna Lao Tzu etc are embodiment of the Christ conciousness Jesus died and resderected as Christ Siddhartha to Buddha Gospel of St Thomas One must die in this body and reserect in this life If you die before you die then when you die you'll never die

[@donbrady1173]

This one is a turn on to my minds digestive system. Been looking into this a lot and have come to believe the original language of the New Testament was Aramaic. The Greek is not a translation but a misinterpretation relayed by the scribes who followed him around. Constantine had his own mother and wife killed because they did not accept the savior concept. He destroyed and burned scriptures handed down by generations with his council of Nicea. The KJV steps on the original language twisting things severely. The churches have a widespread belief that if you love nature and care about the health of the planet you are a pagan earth worshiper. Meditation and Yoga lead to possession in the modern churches and they don't even read their own scriptures. It does say (God) the Creator did not give us the spirit of fear but we sell ( Jesus) Yahshua messiah on fear based finger pointing and a complete lack of understanding. That is powerful hypnosis.

[@johnryan2193]

The more you say the less you know, what comes before..................WHAT ? What comes before .....................WHAT ?

[@edvinberggren2794]

Great episode ! Just some thoughts on the view on veganism Im not an extreme vegan or anything. But I never heard a vegan having issues with third world countries eating meat in order to survive. Vegans has issues with taking the life of a sentient being when you don’t have to. In the west we have to privilege to choose. The problem is when you can choose between murder or peace, evil or compassion and you choose murder. So in that lens, eating meat actually looks very extreme. Also, 80% of all soybean crop is being fed to animals (that we eat)not to the extreme vegans lol. So it’s actually more “extreme” to eat animals than not. If you murder a dog = psychopath If you murder a cow = normal If you don’t murder anyone = Extreme But who knows, maybe those vegans just take it too far

[@rusty_rockets]

Exactly, and it’s closer to 90% of the soybeans we grow is fed to livestock in factory farms.

[@harrygreen3277]

@@rusty_rockets actually you are incorrect and likely got your information from a source invested in changing the worlds diet to one that is not sustainable long-term. I would say study regenerative farming first. In Borneo and the Amazon they are destroying thousand year old forests for soybean and palm oil. I worked for a group in Borneo and the Amazon to stop the production which failed. And yes, the cultivation weren't being used for livestock. Maybe in some other places, but not there. With the rise of vegan supplements and vege oil more land is required and in places like Borneo and Brazil the dollar is more important than nature. There is nothing wrong with eating meat. That is how our brain developed and it is natural. The way you are as a human being is because of animal protein and fats. It can be hard for a self-righteous person to humble themselves to the way of nature and eat what is required as humans. Chinese medicine linked to Taoism also promote eating animal protein and fats as they are great for the brain and basically everything else. The problem is, and what Jason and Gayoung were saying, is turning veganism into an ideology is the problem. It becomes like Christianity because one feels they can tell others that they are heathens for eating meat. In the West we turn everything into an ideology, race, religion, nations, gender and even diet. It can be exhausting. The point of the podcast is can you follow the tenets of Taoism and allow the world to be or are you trying to push your beliefs on others?

[@alexbucheli7068]

I'm with you on everything but just for the record animal agriculture is the main cause of deforestation and most soybeans are grown to feed livestock. Beef production alone accounts for 40% of deforestation. Soy is 18% of deforestation. Up to 80% of the soybeans are grown for live stock. So if you cared about those issues you should consider consuming less animals. Love your content and still understand how some people can take it to an extreme.

[@harrygreen3277]

Your comment is simply not true and so I hope you can be open to what I have experienced personally for the last 15 years. I would say study regenerative farming first. In Borneo and the Amazon they are destroying thousand year old forests for soybean and palm oil. I worked for a group in Borneo and the Amazon to stop the production which failed. And yes, the cultivation weren't being used for livestock. Maybe in some other places, but not there. With the rise of vegan supplements and vege oil more land is required and in places like Borneo and Brazil the dollar is more important than nature. There is nothing wrong with eating meat. That is how our brain developed and it is natural. The way you are as a human being is because of animal protein and fats. It can be hard for a self-righteous person to humble themselves to the way of nature and eat what is required as humans. Chinese medicine linked to Taoism also promote eating animal protein and fats as they are great for the brain and basically everything else. The problem is, and what Jason and Gayoung were saying, is turning veganism into an ideology is the problem. It becomes like Christianity because one feels they can tell others that they are heathens for eating meat. In the West we turn everything into an ideology, race, religion, nations, gender and even diet. It can be exhausting. The point of the podcast is can you follow the tenets of Taoism and allow the world to be or are you trying to push your beliefs on others?

[@M-i-k-a-e-l]

Then why are we teaching kids in schools? Building houses? Developing medicines? Wearing clothes? Using computers? As I see it - the progressive line of development of the west AND the circular mode of preservation and being of the east is not an either or question. Together they accomplish the wisdom and beauty of the spiral motion.

[@donbrady1173]

The churches miss a lot such as the kingdom of heaven is within. Our body is our spiritual temple. Obvious ideas from yoga such as mind body and spirit are one are somehow condemned as pagan when the king James is full of Greek name conversions and they callest such a translateion.We are instructed to tend the garden but that has been changed to subdue the planet.

[@edwardsebastian2888]

Mao did not have a sense of Tao. During the Chinese cultural revolution, Mao put up a campaign, which he thought would increase food production. He ordered citizens to make noises to shoo away birds, which eat not only the crops but also insects from farms and orchards. This action tilted the balance of nature. The insects population went unchecked, which multiplied exponentially, which then decimated the crops, causing catastrophic food shortage and resulting in mass starvation.

[@indiawisdom5256]

Who said Mao had a sense of the Tao? He tried to end Taoism. No one said that on podcast. Marxism is complete opposite to Taoism.

[@magnuscritikaleak5045]

Not just Taoism, Mystical Islam also was a threat to the Jewish loverbiy Mao.

[@spiritlife3942]

The vegans in this comment section have head in the sand. None of what is said is wrong and I have to assume that those annoyed by the comments in the podcast are they themselves vegan. I am a cattle farmer in Nebraska and my farm has slowly but surely incorporated regenerative farming methods which has been a game changer for ethical farming. However the statements in the comment section about Jason being wrong about the Amazon is false. They surely are using the Amazon for soybeans for vegan use and the plant-based industry projected to be worth 23.4 billion by 2027. That is a fact that vegans will have to deal with once ancient land has been destroyed for their diet. We already have land for animals, why destroy more land? Why do you think Bill Gates is buying all of the farmland here in the states? He is not a dumby, he knows the industry is going to be worth a lot in the future. The fact is it takes far less resources to have a naturally balanced diet than an unnatural vegan diet, and yes it is unnatural. It is funny how Westerners always think they have the right way for the world to live and shame other cultures into following them. The unnaturalness of veganism will be a hard sell though. Keep this in mind when all of you vegans are angry about meat eaters, it takes a lot less resources to eat a naturally balanced diet of meat, vegetable, and fruit. For instance one normal human will only consume just less than one cow in a year. That doesn't take much resources to provide. The vegan diet on the other hand needs a lot of land to create fake foods with soybeans. Again, a fact that vegans have to live with. I'm sure I will be met with hostility by vegans about my statements. However the truth is the truth.

[@euclidofalexandria3786]

random thoughts of the day, did you know people but even more cloaked entities can jump into your body make an edge, like a paradox lets say, and then let the ego of the individual run on with it if it does.

[@euclidofalexandria3786]

Or is it that The devil is actually the ruler, and would want to leave but cant? what is God? there hasnt been a kosmic ruler imho since the beginning circa -500000 - 1 billion years. There is of course the other kosmoses, one of which may have been conquered by machines, one also may have skipped a certain event that happened in the early kosmos.

[@seane.9937]

Right, God didn't place people on earth to burn them. It's insulting to any notion of God