Or forgive her? She’s dying | The Dilemma

[@hela8202]

I cannot believe they heard her say her mother destroyed the evidence of her abuse and didn't immediately move to NO

[@lainaaa9075]

agreed

[@mewesquirrel6720]

That was strange

[@luvgoodness3461]

My thoughts exactly...There's no defending that.

[@aubreyharmon1581]

I think they let them know whenever they can change their choice and so that's why some of them moved to no at the same time like before the explanation part

[@MargauxNeedler]

Yeah, what if the abuse had been different like: mother watched baby get SA? Then they all would be on the No side, since the It's your mother people view parents & babies as the only people who can possibly be innocent.

[@2010Aveen]

People who stand on the " but it's your Mom" side really don't understand. This person's Mother has let her child be abused, destroyed evidence of it and chose others over her. This person's inner child is still crying out for her mother's love and I don't think she's going to get that from her Mother. It's not totally up to this person to heal the relationship it's a two way thing.

[@smileygirldrell4630]

That woman in NOT a mother she is an egg donor no MOTHER would let their baby be hurt in this way. I feel for her sooooo much breaks my heart that she feels she's not even worth love and care

[@sola_a]

@@smileygirldrell4630 She IS a mother. Mothers can be horrible people. They are not Saint by default. Let's try to acknowledge that and work from their instead of saying unhelpful stuff like this

[@getthegoods420]

I wish she said what the destroyed evidence was

[@TheRockerX]

@@getthegoods420 what difference would that make?

[@jayv7006]

It's not about the abuser. You're missing the point entirely

[@Kueenenchantment]

I would have stayed on No the entire time. As a person with an abusive mother. Her mother is still around supporting these people who abusived her. Her mother will never change. She will never be there for her like she wants her to.

[@marcadenexus]

It's not about her mother changing. This should purely 100% be, what's best for herself to heal from the wounds; whether she feels better or worse, trying to amend things with her mother, even if it's 99.999 percent sure her mother won't change.

[@Pedant_Patrol]

to*

[@joannaoduleye4042]

as someone with an abusive mother i fully agree

[@SugaMoo]

@@marcadenexus you dont have to forgive someone to heal from the trauma

[@Rebeca27361]

@@marcadenexus trying to heal in the place where you got hurt is a terrible idea and I learned that the hard way

[@BlackStarASMR]

Definitely NO. Her mom is a criminal. And one of her crimes was to destroy evidence of abuse.

[@kavya71954]

exactly

[@user-yh6dq2hl2t]

What's wrong with being a criminal

[@getthegoods420]

You're mother is your point of origin, if you should forgive anybody for doing anything terrible it should be your mother.

[@Jk-ow8ny]

Proof?

[@Akosa117]

Definitely Yes. She very clearly wants to. That’s enough to do it

[@vibrantpixeIs]

If even on her death bed, her mother is not willing to be SELFLESS and stand with her daughter, then that tells me all I need to know. To those on the Yes side who said something along the lines of "at the end of the day, it is your mother," why does the same not apply the mom? At the end of the day, it is YOUR DAUGHTER. Why must the daughter suffer the burden of making amends? She is the victim here. The mother should be the one on her knees groveling for forgiveness.

[@ES-dj9lh]

This

[@tiagocoelho6016]

Forgiveness is something for yourself. Forgiving is letting the bad emotions go away. The opposite of forgiveness is anger and bitterness. YOU CAN FORGIVE WITHOUT AMENDING ANYTHING.

[@vibrantpixeIs]

​@@tiagocoelho6016 the opposite of forgiveness is not always anger or bitterness. sometimes it's ACCEPTANCE. it is ACKNOWLEDGING that rehashing whatever traumatic event to try to find some unguaranteed closure can sometimes retrauamtize you and is not worth it. forgiveness is not necessary in "letting the bad emotions go away." the person who did you wrong does not always deserve the clear conscious of knowing they were forgiven. that is a privilege.

[@vibrantpixeIs]

@@tiagocoelho6016 also, just going back, the prompt was not "should I forgive," but "should I mend" so 🤷

[@FloatyyBrain]

Exactly. That’s why I like Joseph’s point of view even though he’s on the opposite side I agree with(on the yes side). He’s thinking about how it affects the daughter and not just thinking of the mother.

[@BeautyShy]

I never understood the " but it's your mother " or " but it's your father " thing. If someone is the most toxic aspect of your life you shouldn't have to " force " yourself on maintaining a relationship with that person. Speaking from experience, cutting ties with one of my close family member is the best decision I could've make. It was ( and still is ) the greatest relief not to have to deal with this person anymore. I love that the woman realised she can be validated by her own actions and the way she chooses to live her life :)

[@OhWellWhatTheHell1]

Yeah I feel like the "it's your mother" argument goes in exactly the opposite direction than the way these people presented it, like that's worse, that makes it worse. Your parent has a lot of power and authority over you in a way that friends/colleagues/strangers never could, and to abuse that position of authority to cover up abuse is absolutely despicable

[@BeautyShy]

@@OhWellWhatTheHell1 Very well said !

[@riefqah__m8256]

Exactly, 1000 percent! I hate when people make this comment because they most probably would never be able to comprehend the pain we've gone through with that person unless they themselves have gone through it. My life is so much better after cutting that person out of my life and pretending they don't exist.

[@BeautyShy]

@@riefqah__m8256 Thank you for understanding. I'm proud of you for making the healthiest choice for yourself !

[@waterdragon55]

Well my mom says even if they are family embers don't go close who r toxic they will bite you if u get close at all. So yeah in my mom's words tht is understandable as hse had to separate from her brother and become alone because of his wife's toxicity.

[@anxietycherry]

“But that is your mother” who cares??? People have scolded me about how important the bond with a mother is like it’s my fault. I wasn’t born disconnected from my mother, SHE caused me to separate myself. A child isn’t born hating their parents, it’s a reaction to the way they are treated.

[@swordyshield]

another commenter said it beautifully " Yeah I feel like the "it's your mother" argument goes in exactly the opposite direction than the way these people presented it, like that's worse, that makes it worse. Your parent has a lot of power and authority over you in a way that friends/colleagues/strangers never could, and to abuse that position of authority to cover up abuse is absolutely despicable" them being your mother just makes what they did soooo much worse especially since when the brain is growing receiving love and support is the most important step to becoming a healthy adult. Being abused as a child will forever have a huge negative affect on you for likely the rest of your life. Forcing someone to just get over that to try to accept or forgive them (especially when they aren't even regretting it) is so silly

[@GiniroTsuki]

I would have stayed on "no" the entire time. This societal belief that family is more important than anything else can be very toxic and makes it difficult for people in situations like these. It makes people feel guilty for leaving their family when they shouldn't feel that way at all. Family isn't everything. It's easy to say it is when your family is kind and loving but it's a slap in the face to those who are dealing with abusive/toxic situations. It sounds like this person has already moved on and started their own family and gotten free from the abuse. Why force someone to open up those doors again just because it's their mother? In the end, this is a very personal decision. What works for some might not work for others. I hope that this person's life is filled with joy and love going forward. Clearly they deserve it!

[@reecee2488]

Who is forcing her? She came on this "show" for a reason.

[@imdva]

exactly i hate people who are very very family oriented and think that family can do no wrong just because they rolled the dice to be born to those people. the victim did not choose to be born.

[@TheKayleeanna]

THANK YOU for validating all of us who have toxic parent(s). I have one and in Caribbean culture not speaking to a parent is unthinkable. I've had to cut off others who would not stop pressuring me to reunite with her. Luckily, I have a core group of friends who are like family to me since I don't have any siblings.

[@juanmanuelmoramontes3883]

@@reecee2488 I don't think the comment refers to her, but to anyone in that situation.

[@bitchhp2973]

@@TheKayleeannayep. I’m Caribbean and after years of abuse and gaslighting my family cut off a toxic person. Some family has gone back to contacting that person cause “they’re family”. Certain people suck as myself have learned that blood is not thicker than water and I have no intentions or communicating with that person again.

[@mercymunoz1408]

I am so proud of her for CHOOSING HER SELF.

[@lenny7822]

I'm sad that she will suffer regreting that moment. Hope she gets the support

[@mercymunoz1408]

@@lenny7822 what do you mean that she will suffer regretting the moment?

[@lenny7822]

@@mercymunoz1408 She has stated that she constantly thinks about forgiving her. This is a clear sign that this might bother her in the future and if her mother dies before forgiving her. This might lead her to suffer for thinking that she's "evil" for not forgiving and regretting it (even though she's not). It's not easy to live with regrets, especially like this one. I'm hopping that she creates new memories with her REAL family that can drown the regrets she has.

[@surakshaguragain5538]

@@lenny7822 honestly, she can always forgive. Whenever she wants. Her mother doesn't have to be alive for that. You are mixing forgiveness with amendment. She'll forgive when her heart's ready.

[@mercymunoz1408]

@@lenny7822 Can you tell me where you heard that at? I don't recall her saying "she constantly thinks about forgiving her", I recall her saying she feels like she is running out of time. I also rewatched some parts of the video and that was no where to be found.

[@taylortran4244]

"That's your mother. Family is very important." That was her child. Where was family then? Still now, her mom is not treating her like family, why should she owe her mom anything? It goes both ways

[@justinenglish_5750]

Yes finally someone who says it. The mother should take the action not the child. It goes both ways

[@lawtraf8008]

Preach Taylor, preach

[@Blueskies271]

Same goes for the conditioning her mother went through to be sort of a cult. Yes, her mother was likely also brainwashed/vulnerable. HOWEVER, who is to say that this woman is only considering reconnecting with her mom because of her own conditioning in the cult? If that’s the case, the choice to reconnect with her mother can be just as harmful as the mother’s choice to abandon her daughter.

[@gingertwerk472]

Abseloutely

[@aurostar9805]

Forgiveness should be above all. If Her mother doesn't apologize that's up to her but if she did she would have peace of mind. 'Cuz that would show that woman that she is 100% better than they'll ever could in their lifetime.

[@Noa......]

I felt the people on the "no" side actually heard the story and had more empathy and compassion. And the people on the "yes" side are just like "but she is your mother." Jennifer smiling towards the end was creepy.

[@cheapPixel]

I still find it baffling that it took so long for them to switch sides. At least they managed to get to the healthier conclusion for the poor girl.

[@melinadampier1641]

@@cheapPixel I think they were only able to switch sides when the lady told them they could.

[@Q.T-T]

Girl she's just supportive of her decision..

[@Noa......]

@@Q.T-T The mom?

[@Kittygingersnap]

It’s crazy how everyone diminishes her abuse just because it’s her “mom” That is not her “mom” that is disgusting people think she deserves forgiveness just for being her parent. Never forgive your abuser and stop letting society tell you you should

[@whateverwhatever4026]

Literally told you that's not what they're doing... Second sentence isn't very coherent. Everyone deserve forgiveness.... You don't have to do anything. But it's not society's fault you're incapable of being the bigger person. That's on you.

[@TDakota1]

@@whateverwhatever4026 no, not everyone deserves forgiveness

[@whateverwhatever4026]

@@TDakota1 Yeah, I know, I'm talking to children who can't consider anything but themselves....Just don't coming crying later when you've finally matured.

[@swesswe]

@@whateverwhatever4026 you never have to forgive ur abuser, u are the victim and u should be able to feel whatever u want (unless u urself are turning abusive/toxic)

[@MayJade001]

@@whateverwhatever4026 No one deserves forgiveness and no one has to forgive. Forgiving is for the victims not the perpetrators. And you can forgive someone that hurt you without telling them, without seeing them, without speaking to them.

[@kingty6221]

It breaks my heart how invalidating it is to have gone through so much abuse and still having them tell you to make amends. Damn that's fucked.

[@Ray03595]

Uhh, she went on the show because she was unsure herself?

[@lenny7822]

How is it invalidating? The only person that will suffer is her after the passing of her mother. You don't need to let someone back in your life after forgiveness. And even if she forgave and regretted it, she can still be proud of how forgiving and kind she is compared to not forgiving her and living the rest of her life thinking she is evil and unkind (when she's not).

[@m79627]

@@lenny7822 The prompt was asking whether she should mend the relationship with her mother, not forgive her. Regardless, she said she flew to see her mother and she iced her out, so I honestly wouldn't blame her if she didn't try again.

[@raazee100]

Forgiveness has to be earned, I'm sorry mothers like this exist. As a mother it's your responsibility to protect your children

[@JustMe-kg3xc]

Forgiveness is about not letting someone else's actions control your life. It doesn't mean pretending the actions didn't happen - it means recognizing that the person did wrong and deciding that you're done holding it against them FOR YOUR SAKE, not theirs.

[@dwiz_9336]

@@JustMe-kg3xc I second this. By forgiving that person, you are releasing the power that they have over you, it no longer takes hold. You have risen above, you have overcome..

[@alisiachiara]

@@JustMe-kg3xc You don't need to forgive your abuser in order to move on. There are things that can't and shouldn't be forgiven.

[@dwiz_9336]

@@alisiachiara if I could ask--what is forgiveness to you? Because I don't think forgiveness is what most people think it is.

[@fandingdano]

@@JustMe-kg3xc you cannot forgive someone who doesn’t feel sorry/has apologized for their actions and takes steps to rectify

[@gus195]

you NEVER have to forgive your abuser

[@gus195]

blood ≠ family

[@Elouise51]

If you don’t, it only negatively affects YOU. Don’t let that person control the rest of your life without even being in it.

[@Elouise51]

@Smash 123 we just have different opinions on forgiveness. I also think moving on is a bad coping skill.

[@wenders.n8454]

@@Elouise51 Moving on isnt a bad coping skill at all. What is a bad coping skill is actively for your whole entire life trying to mend a broken relationship with your abuser who is probably narcissistic and doesnt believe theyve done wrong. If they think theyve done no wrong, theres no chance of a mended relationship. Thats just time wasting and deterioration of your mental, physical and emotional wellbeing for no reason. Moving on allows you to come to terms with it all and creating a better life for yourself

[@gillowens24]

So true

[@oh_adhi]

I think she wants her mom to choose her. The fact that she's reached out is evidence of her ongoing forgiveness journey. But her mom isn't trying to meet her halfway and that's what's eating her up.

[@HonorWillow]

This and the fact that Sarah said it would eat away at their soul makes me mad that anyone stood in the yes box after that to be honest

[@alexisrapoza5103]

I’m not gonna lie, this video is super upsetting. To hear these people sit there and assert that this person must seek forgiveness because its their blood only perpetuates the messages that victims of abuse are told their entire lives. I feel so terrible that this person had to sit there and listen to the things some of these folks had to say. I cannot imagine how hard it was, I could not even make it through the entire video. I am begging people who come from healthy households to stop pushing their beliefs on people. Family is not determined by blood and its time we all began to understand that.

[@yoonaddict2527]

Honestly it’s the lack of variety of participants for me that does it. Most of these people seem to have never experienced having an abusive person in their life, especially a family member at that.

[@cattledogandstaffy]

THIS! It is very clear when someone has never experienced abuse, based off their rhetoric. I’m just glad that she ended up going with no for her own sake.

[@danaelizabeth4751]

I was pretty disgusted by them dismissing her abuse over and over. She spoke about craving love and belongingness. The trauma bond of intermittent reinforcement in abuse keeps us stuck in that cycle. This woman broke the cycle and cut contact-- for a reason. I don't think she should open up that wound.

[@JennaEmbers]

it’s incredibly frustrating and heart breaking, but i think it often comes from people who haven’t experienced that level of abuse, or are stuck in the “cycle of abuse” with someone so they need to believe it’s healthy to mend the relationship. it doesn’t justify it, it just shows that we have a lot more work to do in educating people on the subject.

[@TiffanyNg100]

Yeah wtf was wrong with these peopl?

[@louleloup2607]

You need two people to mend a relationship. That's why her idea of letters is the best. She shows openness to peacemaking, but does not burn herself out waiting for her mother's apologies. Beautiful episode.

[@Ray03595]

I really liked that initiative she took with the letters. Leaves the door open, lets her air her grievances and hopefully gives her some peace. If the mother wants to respond then that's on her now. Great advice whoever gave it to her.

[@tristanisaacday8127]

Really well said. I think that at least sending those letters, she won’t live in regret that she completely closed herself off, but still has that space to not burn out.

[@stargirl7646]

I did something similar when I came out to my family this year - I recorded a video and sent it to them. It was still INCREDIBLY scary, but I was able to get my thoughts out without interruption and it really helped. I like her idea of letters

[@Emma_78]

Yes! It takes two.

[@theartistswings9810]

Either these people don't have self-respect or they've never had a truly abusive figure in their life. My skin crawled every time that one lady said "but this is your mother". I can't remember how many times that has been used to keep people trapped in the cycle of abuse.

[@lac0rde]

You're basically saying their opinion should be less valid cause they haven't been abused enough ? Wow.

[@genox7185]

@@lac0rde What kind of reach is that? That wasn't what they said at all

[@melinadampier1641]

@@lac0rde Yes, because who are they to say that she needs to forgive her just because she's her mother, when they don't know how she mentally damaged her. Saying "but she's your mother" is dismissive to how she treated her.

[@shiruki8974]

Have hd that said to me my whole life. Such a vile feeling that comes from it

[@anoniem32]

To all the people saying "but it's your mom", replace the word mother with father and think deeply if you would truly have the same opinion. I feel like allot of people project their relationship with their mother on others. + her writing the letters to her mother was a healthy alternative. Not 100% the NO box and not 100% the YES box. She chose herself but got to say her peace.

[@leahyeahnah6866]

Came here to say this and to add - replace it "mom" with "husband". No one would ever tell a victim of spousal abuse that they need to forgive their abuser because "it's still your husband!" - but when it's your own MOTHER of all people, the person you are supposed to trust and rely on, it's somehow ok??

[@Skyler_Momoko]

@@leahyeahnah6866 WOW - so well said. You hit the nail on the head.

[@angelazsz]

@@leahyeahnah6866 absolutely correct!

[@lawtraf8008]

@@leahyeahnah6866 Thank you for speaking the truth

[@alexarkadios9108]

Closure is an illusion. Live your best life. Abuse is never okay. Ever.

[@Bribreezzzyy]

👏🏼

[@clubhousejohnny5910]

How is closure an illusion? It can help you cope and accept the situation and contribute to healing.

[@Ray03595]

Close isn't an illusion. There was literally another person in the vid who got closure with her mother. It doesn't always happen, but it's not an illusion...

[@Mariposarana]

"Closure is an illusion", although I feel you mean this positively, is a form of gaslighting. I have 2 moms. One step. One birth. Both lied to me for years. My birth mom ended up giving me closure. It was what saved me from completely losing my mind. I agree, you shouldn't need closure, your healing is your responsibility. But it is not an illusion.

[@soulresonance4073]

Closure is Real.

[@hitrevin]

I’m also so glad that woman fought back on that “it’s your mom”

[@theredcupcake]

we stan

[@mmarceline3]

i have an abusive step mom and a dead mom. if my abuser was dying i would not make amends. yes there’s regrets, but you’ll regret not standing up for yourself even more

[@mmarceline3]

i’m so proud of her for making a decision that felt best for her. even if she chose yes and i didn’t agree, she even said both boxes suck. whatever she thinks is best for herself is the most important. i think even just being able to decide no in that moment is so powerful. i’m really proud of her

[@Akosa117]

You can make amends and still stand up for yourself.

[@mmarceline3]

@@Akosa117 but no one HAS to, and they don’t have to want to either. if they do, that is ok. but no one should be forced to do anything

[@mmarceline3]

@@aileenj lmao! might as well be

[@NiMissNi]

Jennifer's take was terrible all the way through. This woman sought advice after being gaslit her entire life, and Jennifer just solidified that all the way though.

[@DD-rh2sz]

Black woman's voices are always silenced and it's because of people like you who do not validate her experience

[@_starry_narwhal_2501]

It does not and will not ever have anything to do with her being black, do not weaponize our identity for such a foolish reason.

[@bitchhp2973]

@@DD-rh2szno. Jennifer’s dislike is coming from her being a mother who would want her children to come back if she abused them. It has nothing to do with her being black. -an Afro Latina.

[@PrincessLioness]

@@bitchhp2973That’s how I felt as well.

[@fisforfriday]

Especially as women of color, we need to break this mindset. Some mothers truly are just toxic and should be loved from a distance

[@jaxonjenks4751]

If this wasn’t her mum they would’ve all immediately went to “NO” which pisses me off so much. Family abuse is a real issue and it should never be brushed off as “its you mother/father.”

[@sandramorryssa]

Looking at books like "I'm glad my mom died," I remember Trever Noah explaining it as reconciling the "idea" of who your mother is suppose to be with who your mother actually is. Many times we want closure for horrible things in life, but if the other person involved does not have the capacity to give that to you, you will have to find another way to gain that closure. You can't put your mental health, wellness and peace in the hands of another person. It's YOUR life, not theirs.

[@theredcupcake]

I love that book!

[@Cheznrice]

No, she's not worth your time, energy or love! Forgive yourself and live your life in peace.

[@_Sabrina999]

That’s what I was just thinking! Forgive yourself and find peace! Glad I’m not the only one seeing it like this

[@JustMe-kg3xc]

Not that easy. Carrying around the resentment and unforgiveness means that she WON'T be able to live her life in peace.

[@sophiaisabelle027]

This is a difficult topic to come to terms with. Abusive parents typically take full advantage of their own children even if it's entirely against their will. Somehow it would be better for the children themselves to just move forward with their lives and hope that things will get better for them.

[@wenders.n8454]

100% agreed

[@tobiaslawrence8928]

As a kid that went through abuse from my parents and siblings, it's very hard to forgive someone that's supposed to provide, protect and care for you I'm at that point, in life where I can't forgive my parents and I'm fine with that cause judging from a post they made on social media about me I see that they haven't changed one not.

[@wenders.n8454]

@@tobiaslawrence8928 Im so sorry youve been through that. Im still in the position where i cant forgive either. You’re completely valid for not wanting to forgive just yet/at all if thats what finds you peace!:)

[@Bell_La]

they abuse of their power!!!

[@Bell_La]

@@tobiaslawrence8928 you aren't in any obligations to forgive your abusers. we don't have to forgive in order to move on with life, we just have to accept. what you decide to do with it then is what matters.

[@RagnarokLoki2012]

As someone who has abusive parents, I think forgiveness is an important milestone for someone to reach. You don't need the forgiveness to extend to the people who abused you, but at least to yourself. I forgave myself and even my parents to an extent, but if they had a terminal diagnosis I would absolutely not do anything differently. For years, I tried to do what I could as a child to make them happier. But now I know that all they're interested in from me is free carework. They don't see me as a human, but only as a servant. I've been working on healing my trauma, but I can't heal theirs anymore. You can't do that work for someone else.

[@sapphicalix]

What do you have to forgive yourself about? As someone who was also abused, the whole “you have to forgive the people who’ve abused you” thing is so toxic. No you absolutely do not and it’s absolutely unhelpful and toxic to people who cannot and will not do so.

[@bear1222]

@@sapphicalix I agree, however, it’s also important to state that it depends on the connections you’ve had with that person during the time you’ve known them. It’s hard to let go of someone if, for example, you’ve loved them and had a loving relationship with them for 10 years, but they just made you the most hurt you’ve ever been in your entire life and have neglected you afterwards. Abuse is so painful, but the amount of memories you’ve had with someone, who’s shapes you to being the way you are today, it’s devastating trying to eradicate their existence from your life.

[@John-ls4xh]

​@@sapphicalix it's not toxic trust me what is more toxic is holding on to the baggage

[@ekalorschmekalor2885]

@@John-ls4xhyou can relinquish “baggage” without forgiving. Stop victim blaming

[@thisisjamina]

“She’s your mother”- and that was HER daughter. But she still destroyed the evidence

[@xlanagrace]

Her explaining to them the most gut-wrenching things her mom let happen to her and them dismissing it by saying, “but she's your mom,” is the most infuriating thing.

[@Eblt3]

Seeing these strangers ask her about what she needs and the support system was beautiful and brought tears to my eyes

[@dellar6358]

I’ve forgiven my very abusive, toxic mother. Just because you forgive, doesn’t necessarily mean that you have to let them back in your life, especially since she is not willing to change her toxic behavior. When I mention her changing, she says that is the way she is and she will never change, nor does she want to change. Her mother was toxic and abusive and it’s so sad that the toxicity gets passed on with generations.

[@Ellie-nn5mp]

exactly i think forgiveness is more for you than the person. I no longer live with my abusive mom however, I have forgiven her and my father for the abuse but I wont let them back into my life. I think that after they dont change and you have given them chances time and time again but they break your trust everytime it's time to let go. The reason I forgave my parents is because without forgiveness I was bitter and theyre not butthurt about ruining our relationship so unforgiveness only hurts me.

[@dellar6358]

@@Ellie-nn5mp Exactly! Forgiveness doesn’t have to be spoken out loud to your abuser either. Forgiveness is letting go of all the hurt and pain that was caused and not letting it control your life. My parents are the type where if you outwardly tell them you forgive them, they somehow feel empowered and continue their manipulative, narcissistic ways.

[@hey7492]

I'm glad you guys experiences with forgiving went well. I personally wouldn't ever forgive my abusive mother. She herself won't ever even ask for it, so why should I bother when I didn't do anything wrong? I am pretty happy being rightfully mad at her and I just want you guys to remember we're all different so pls don't generalize that if you don't forgive, you aren't letting go or moving forward. I'm personally way better knowing I value myself enough as to not go back to someone who didn't ever love me or cared for me

[@veronicadominguez298]

Same - “I’ve never changed for anyone and I’m not about to change for you.”

[@liziemarie9554]

exactly!

[@GothRayleigh]

Chelsey had a very attentive attitude to Sarah's emotions during the whole thing. I believe the speech about being blood related not excusing everything is very solid honestly. Very glad that she was there to counter some of the arguments with how fair and reasonable and grounded her opinions where. Very happy that Sarah chose the path of not forcing a connection between her mother and herself. This video will probably help a lot of people as well in similar situations :)

[@zebafirdous7713]

No forgiveness for a stubborn abuser. Hats off to your bravery✌️

[@nicoleh5067]

It's crazy how many people wanted her to forgive just because it's her mom. Just because they are blood related doesn't make them family. Her mom never acted like a mom so she shouldn't feel guilty for not mending things now that shes ill.

[@goodenergi]

“‘That’s your mom’ only goes so far” For survivors of abuse, this phrase is so necessary. Many people gaslight abused children into rekindling things with their abusers. “Mom” Is not some get out of jail free card. Does anyone say “but that’s ur kid 🥺”.? No. We have to realize that our abusers don’t think this way. Nor should the abused party be obligated too. You can heal and let go with out your abusers input.

[@jasminesawyers1]

It sounds like she’s spent her whole life trying to feel loved by her mother. A child should never have to be the one to mend. If the mother is on her death bed, yet she still hasn’t realized what she has done to her daughter, then she never will. Writing her expressions helps, whether she sends it or not. It is what my therapist has recommended to write letters too. I am happy she finally choose herself first. She’s so strong and admirable

[@whatever8939]

I do think that getting closure from your abuser can do a lot in helping you move on. Not necessarily forgiving them, but airing your grievances and making sure they knew the effect that they had on you. Feeling heard can do wonders for your mental health.

[@Kat-of5rl]

I agree about telling them the effect their actions had if it’s what you feel like you need to do, but I wouldn’t do so with the expectation to feel heard or understood by them. Some parents don’t want to take responsibility for their actions and therefore won’t really take on board that they caused you all this hurt - because that would involve taking responsibility and admitting to their failings which would be very painful for them. Not all parents are willing to do that at all.

[@megamusicmessenger]

I totally agree with what you are saying . However I think it's different when the abuser is not willing to take responsibility or even what to hear your side of the story .

[@LeftOfToday]

I hate when individuals give people permission to be abusive because they're family members. Nope... Just nope. My mother almost died while I was in foster care due to her abuse; due to that, I tried to play the dutiful daughter to her but all it did was hurt me worse. Full support and understanding for anybody who feels and knows down deep that the best answer for them is a resounding no to mending something that somebody else broke and has no intention of mending themselves.

[@namjoons1367]

There’s absolutely no way the people who voted yes have had an abusive parent, specifically an abusive mother. Or if they have, they are in denial. I like to think of myself as a very forgiving person, but there’s no way i will ever forgive her, having a toxic mother in your life will destroy you. And i mean in every aspect of life you will find her effect lingering. A lot of these days i find myself wishing she were dead, then i feel guilty, it isn’t my fault. It’s a no all the way through. Absolutely not.

[@dariusjames3816]

People gotta understand the difference between forgiveness and reconciliation. Everyone should forgive, but that does not mean you need to restore harmful relationships

[@hey7492]

''Everyone should forgive'' is such a wild tone-deaf statement tbh. Some things can't be forgiven and blaming the VICTIM for not being able to forgive isn't the way to go.

[@SerV689]

@@hey7492 anything can be forgiven wtf? Forgiveness is totally voluntary??? People have forgiven the murderers of their children. You’re really gonna act like a mother daughter relationship can’t be fixed or at least forgiven when someone can forgive their child’s murderers? It’s funny too that I’ve noticed that people who claim to have these egalitarian and humanitarian beliefs are usually the most aggressive with their views and most likely to dismiss other views without hearing them

[@SerV689]

@@hey7492 if you can’t forgive someone, by definition it’s entirely your fault.

[@dariusjames3816]

@@hey7492 i appreciate your perspective. No one is blaming anyone for not forgiving or finding it difficult to forgive. Anyone who has been hurt knows that forgiving someone can be one of the most challenging things to do in your life. Nevertheless, the truth about unforgiveness is that it does not hurt anyone but yourself. As the expression goes, it's like drinking poison and expecting the other person to be hurt by it. Unforgiveness leaves you feeling angry, depressed, and wounded in such a way that is unbeneficial for you, which manifests in harmful effects physically and mentally. Any clinical therapist would tell you forgiveness is the best choice; the studies back it too. But again, to forgive someone does not mean you are condoning what they did, nor saying you're going to restore the relationship. Tbh, forgiveness is so you yourself can be free. This statement isn't victim-blaming. If anything, it's a step toward healing. I hope you hear this perspective and consider letting go of some of the hurts that have happened in your life🙏

[@Ray03595]

I dont think one even has to forgive. Just finding some sort of peace with the situation may be enough. The fact she wrote letters and did reach out could be enough for her.

[@nsiety]

no no and NOo. i do not understand why the media and the internet create this weird rhetoric of forgive and forget and getting closures. I'm more Like NO I will never forgive you but I will forget about you . Yes your actions have changed me as a person but my life is much larger and infinite than your insignificant existence and purpose. Like this person abused her , giving birth does not make someone a mother.

[@Sokew86]

I agree. I actually see a video of psychologist that said "the idea of forgiveness helps people to feel better is simple not true". An abused person have to archieve acceptence of what happen to them, forgiveness is possible if the abuser take accountability and try make amendment, forgiveness is not something to give for free.

[@MrsUzumaki]

@@Sokew86 Oooh can you link me to that? I'd love to watch it

[@Sokew86]

@@MrsUzumaki i have remember which channal was😅, I watch to many psychological videos. My guesses are menden mind or doctor ramani's chanels

[@diana-rz3yo]

i know they have their own opinions but i felt so hurt when they wouldn’t switch sides and i was glad some of them eventually did. you can have a conversation with an abuser, and let them go. you don’t have to forgive them, especially she after doing something so horrible to her daughter. i truly hope she can heal.

[@lovelight8722]

This is a hard one for me especially coming from having had an abusive childhood... I say yes to forgiveness but no to mending. She doesn’t need to have her mom in her life nor try to restore a relationship with her but forgiving someone (even without them knowing about it) is so freeing. It’s not about absolving her mom, it’s more so about her gaining inner peace ❤.

[@Traevis-152]

I have the exact same thoughts.

[@BigAsh0011]

This is exactly how I feel. 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾

[@carolinex4825]

I had an abusive mum and when she died I never forgave her, until 3 years after she passed I had to let go and heal for myself, move on and realising she can't cause me distress anymore. People always say "but she's your mum" never understand the pain and trauma they give you for the rest of your life.

[@lalalaliditita8410]

“But it’s your mom” way of thinking gets me so mad. Someone should have pushed “but it’s your daughter” on the mother when the abuse was presented to her. How can that lady protect HIS kids over her own? Nope. I was on the no side the entire video. I hope she’s healing.

[@lalalaliditita8410]

OH & to add, why is it because she’s dying the daughter has to forgive and let her mom be peaceful? Why doesn’t the mother rise up and seek forgiveness? She’s obviously satisfied and stands by her decision she made years back. So again, nah nope no never. I also like the idea of writing her mom a letter, that way she can vent out what she needs to say without her mom silencing her in person.

[@omotayosatuyi252]

This one has to be the most sad and rough dilemma video yet

[@ren4102]

I honestly would be standing in the "no" section the whole time. Why do we hold so much responsibility on the child to mend things when the parents caused the trauma? Why hold accountability on the victim when the parent is at fault of their own actions? I have vowed I will not show up to my dads death bed until he acknowledges and takes accountability for the abuse he put me through. To anyone who may took the time to read this I'm here to remind you blood isn't thicker than water. Blood doesn't make family, its the foundation you have built with others. You will find that someday

[@NikkiBudders]

Honestly I think the last thing she needs is to be put in a situation where her mother can manipulate her again with accusations and false apologies that she only wants to give because you "have to" forgive her because shes dying. A person should not have to accept an apology given under duress. Also props to the No side who mentioned that this was likely just stirring up otherwise settled emotions. That she probably wouldn't be feeling this way if her mother wasn't dying, which is an inherently emotionally heavy time for anyone, so it's not entirely rational to want them so bad just because she is.

[@aiko.55]

I am so proud of her decision. It was a no from me throughout.

[@veronicasanchez4881]

i hope the person in this video reads this comment: a few years back my therapist told me “you don’t have to forgive your father to heal. healing is available to you whether you chose to forgive him or not” and that was such a breath of fresh air. it relieved me of the burden of trying to forgive him despite the trauma he caused me. it allowed me to focus all of that energy back on myself and on my healing, and on giving myself the things i desperately needed from him as a child. i wish the same relief and healing to this person ❤

[@kkbeatss]

The most important thing is that you owe NO ONE your life. If she was abusive and destroyed your life, you don't owe her your forgiveness. You don't have to feel bad about losing her, as she was the one who made it happen. You'll feel like you lost your chance, but it is YOUR decision to try again or leave her forever.

[@kkbeatss]

Like, I just try to think if what happened to her was someone random or even any other relative, and there would be no debate about cutting ties off. If you want, go for it, it's your decision, but you are the one who is deciding that, no one else.

[@abithemoon]

i love how they are all hugging her at the end, anyone suffering abuse deserves a warm reassuring hug to know someones understands and cares about your mental health

[@srsly___uio]

«but this is your mother» is NOT an argument.

[@TheKittieMeowMeow]

When she walked to the No side, I started crying. This subject is so hard and I’m sending her so much love

[@mangafan9991]

Amending a relationship and forgiveness are not the same thing. Forgiveness is letting go and not taking upon yourself to be bitter or getting revenge. Amending means creating a relationship. Some people do not deserve your friendship.

[@pilotswife06]

What she’s REALLY seeking is an apology from her mom, validation and acknowledgment that she was abused. And she won’t get it from her mom. So I think she should not try to mend the relationship.

[@mar-nyan]

I was in the “no” group for the entire duration of that video. You never have to forgive your abusers. That “mother” certainly doesn’t deserve any sympathy from a child she hurt so deeply

[@horganjames]

She's looking for love and validation from a woman that has no intention of giving that to her, even on her deathbed. She owes her mother nothing. Writing letters expressing her feelings and the hurt her mother caused is a solid idea.

[@mindofzena8447]

I say ABSOLUTELY NOT!! Unless this person FEELS like they need to forgive for their own personal healing but if they don't feel the need to do that, then don't. My heart goes out to this person and all who have been abused either by family, friends, or other. 💚🙏🏿

[@TazG961]

The one part of this that really bothered me, that I was so glad was called out, was "But it's your mother". No. It doesn't matter if it's her mom, her dad, her brother, her sister, or whoever. Forgiveness is not something her mother is owed, simply because she gave birth to her. That woman KNEW of the abuse her daughter was going through, and made the concious decision to destroy the evidence, as well as remain friends with the people she knows abused her daughter, which means she didn't, and still doesn't care or believe her daughter. My father was abusive to me, and he passed in february of this year. I never got the chance to forgive him for what he put me through, because he died very suddenly, and I don't feel regret for that. His death has forced me to confront my feelings on what he did, but has also given me some peace. I'm glad getting some outside perspective, allowed this woman to take the steps she needed, to begin her healing.

[@xxcryssmarie224]

People love to say “but it’s your mom” , “but it’s your dad”.. what about “but it’s your child”? They had no problem abusing, neglecting and ruining their child’s life. It’s not like the child wants revenge or wants to hurt their parent. It’s VERY ACCEPTABLE to move on and not make amends. If that gives you true peace then that’s all that matters. Idc who it is

[@chewingpeppers]

Also "I made amends with my mom so you should too" is so dismissive that it can't even be described! It's baffling how difficult it is for others to see things outside their own perspective. It doesn't come naturally, empathy is a skill that always needs consciousness and refinement.

[@lillianweaver-beck408]

My partner has an abusive parent. They’ve been NC since March/April of this year. In looking for other people who’ve dealt with similar situations, many of them say they only felt peace once their abuser was dead. For that reason NO you do not need to forgive your abuser

[@acidd5113]

"In looking for other people who’ve dealt with similar situations, many of them say they only felt peace once their abuser was dead." absolutely preach

[@goodenergi]

We also have to realize that “mom” Is an action, not a title. When was the last time that woman mothered her daughter? Never. Therefore the participant is under no obligation to spend all her energy amending things with this stranger who happened to have pushed her out her rancid kitty kat.

[@SailorMoon5555]

No, she's an abuser; just because they're dying doesn't mean they should have their behavior excused. (and being a person who has been abused plenty by family, I stand by this statement.)

[@cecygrey9961]

Why is it always ‘but its your mom’ and not ‘she is her daughter how could she let that happen to her ‘

[@Kozette007]

You can forgive and NOT mend the relationship.

[@meganyoumad]

I think this person was craving someone to move back to NO. It wouldn’t be a relationship mended, it would be a regression into the person they were/the abuse victim. I hope they do what’s best for them and not their mom

[@Bloo_dream]

Don’t forgive her. Scream your heart out let her know what she did to you.

[@MaBoJo1]

This video shows how most people just assume you can heal these things, you cannot, you are trying to heal yourself from the impact. The abuser rarely changes. Also why is it the daughters responsibility. Definite No for me!!

[@dm4792]

It’s always “but that’s your mom” but the mom never thought “ that’s my daughter” when she was getting abused so …. Duces

[@pearl_b]

As someone who knows… I would be in NO the entire time. You can absolutely forgive, heal, and work through it, without exposing yourself to an abusive person again. You already have everything you need ❤ we don’t get to choose who raised us, who we were dependent on, but we get to choose the kind of life we want moving forward. Proud of this person for her final decision and how she handled it ❤ sending love and hugs!!

[@mackenziewesten8506]

The excuse of “blood is thicker than water” is not a valid point. You know what the rest of the phrase is? “The blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb.” If someone allowed and essentially assisted, then destroyed evidence of abuse, it is immediately a no. Not her responsibility at all

[@KatsuFlake]

It's always "but that's your mom" and never "but that's your child"

[@louane8479]

i don't understand why a child should have the repair the broken pieces or a relationship they did not break.

[@hsfbhfsbfsb]

WHY IS EVERYONE JUSTIFYING THE MOM

[@midnightxcarousel]

I would never forgive my abuser, I dont see how you should forgive someone for doing something bad and will continue to do it

[@amandawilson4716]

It doesn't matter if she's your mom. You don't have to forgive her just because she birthed you. Protect your heart and mental health.

[@salomegomez4135]

You couldn’t have moved me away from “no” idc

[@Cheekydr4]

"Mending the relationship" requires effort on the side of her mother as well. It requires her mother to want to mend, to want to apologize, to not continue the dynamic of gaslighting. Her mother does not sound like she will offer any of those things. Her mother sounds like someone who would gaslight this person even while on her own deathbed. Her mother sounds like someone who refuses to have these open conversations for the sake of closure. To me, it would cause far more heartache to try and mend something and have the other person continue to be hurtful and poisonous than to simply accept the reality of who her mother is and where their relationship is at.

[@courtneycortrail2581]

They should really have a “idk yet I need to hear everything first” spot to stand on

[@wenders.n8454]

I actually like the yes/no aspect! its interesting how you can visually see peoples thought proceses and hear the reasons why they switch. also intresting to view how jurastic a story can change just by giving that 1 detail

[@Dani511.]

That would ruin the whole point of this series

[@tuesdayy9103]

I think a big part of is seeing everyones opinion change as they get more context

[@courtneycortrail2581]

@@Dani511. no it wouldn’t. Calm down

[@Dani511.]

@@courtneycortrail2581 I am calm🧍🏾‍♀️

[@yoonaddict2527]

Personally I hate that when a person is dying or dead, all of their crimes are somehow forgiven. But honestly if forgiveness gives you closure and peace at mind, then you should. Still, remember, your happiness is the first priority

[@sw6951]

There’s no excuse for abuse. There’s explanation to why it occurred but that doesn’t justify it. She can forgive and still not be in her mother’s life. There’s no use holding a grudge against anyone.

[@alexinthemiddle4170]

Argument: she's your mother.....what about the: "she's your daughter" factor that her mother ignored continually!!!??? She made the correct decision. Make ups can happen in the eternities!

[@lexibrowning7447]

I went through this exact thing. Almost word for word. I never mended my relationship with my mother because she wouldn't mend it, but to this day, my greatest accomplishment was putting in the effort during her last days. It is not just healing, it is formative. Knowing I was there showing love for a mother who didn't bother to even consider the possibility that she was abusive and manipulative has become a foundation in me that shaped my confidence, my self worth, and the knowledge that I will ALWAYS be a better human being than my mother ever was. These are long term positive traits in me with origins I can trace back to the moments of being there for my mother. At a certain age, you think traits like these can no longer be gained, but they can. So this is a quick YES for me. The results that come from NO are consequences that force you to deal with a mother who's not even alive. The results that come from YES are gifts for your future that came from you in this moment. And I can attest that the gifts from YES are priceless

[@justmcclend25]

Thank you for sharing this. Your story is very inspirational and encouraging.

[@nessad01]

Society: Don’t let anyone harm you or anyone else. No exceptions. No excuses. No exemptions. Also Society: “But they are family…” (proceeds to exempt families from abuse.)

[@celeste8440]

the way tears were streaming down my face and wouldn't stop while watching this. it really is such a heavy topic

[@b.1162]

It's a no for me the whole way through. You don't owe your abusers anything, ever.

[@kaykj207]

i hate when people say that “oh it’s your parent! that’s your blood they gave you life.” ok? they didn’t have to do that, it’s just dismisses that person’s abuse and trauma they went through with someone they looked up to and loved. this hit home, i’m so sorry she’s going through that❤️

[@erikajxo]

i was standing on NO the entire time. cannot understand the people saying yes at all. you do not owe your mother peace or comfort or a relationship so that she feels okay in the last few years of her life for things she did. i am so sorry that happened to you and thank you for sharing your story. i'm sure you talking about your story has helped many others. hope you find the peace, validation and healing you deserve 💕

[@dayjwalker4220]

At the end she sounded a little more at peace. I’m glad she said no, and I feel as if the people who said yes hasn’t really experienced the kind of mental abuse a parent can really do to their child. Not every parent is wanting to compromise

[@MikeS42069]

This is disgusting. These people making excuses for why mom let the abuse happen. They are literally just sitting there gaslighting the poor person that was abused.

[@arielturner3932]

For real they are terrible people

[@heekamalokilo7194]

Are they gaslighting her? No one told her that her abuse didn't happen or wasn't that bad. They repeated that trying to mend her relationship with her mom doesn't excuse what her mom did to her. The anonymous person was already considering mending the relationship. That's why she came on this show.

[@arielturner3932]

@@heekamalokilo7194 the one girl literally said all that and then erased with “ but she’s your mom 🥺”

[@jennyinouterspace]

This is one of the first jubilee episodes that I believe is incredibly damaging. Estrangement and abuse are not up for the discussion of strangers. As a victim of parental abuse and someone who has navigated familial estrangement for the last four years, I have only ever been told “but it’s your mom” or “it’s your dad”. I have been criticized and I was only a child when the majority of the abuse occurred. It simply is not her job to give her mom peace. It is only her job to give herself peace.

[@some_random_dude13]

The word "family" is what you define. Not your dna or past, and trust me, as an adopted kid I have experience in this.

[@eva.00101]

The mom made sure she would never get justice or true closure by destroying evidence of her abuse and proof that it happened. To me, that’s unforgivable.

[@ley_ng]

i say no. immediately. growing up in an abusive household i’ve wanted absolutely nothing to do with her. i’ve had worry bc she’s my mom of course but it feels safer for me to erase her out. sometimes they don’t want to listen it’s not that easy

[@essencea.6379]

I'm sorry I cannot stand it when people are like "that's your parent/family member"...so?? That doesn't excuse anything! The mom is supposed to protect the child period!

[@zijadapiric5912]

I don't understand why does she have to be the one reaching out and forgiving her. If mother wanted she would have asked for her forgiveness and reached out to her but like this she doesn't own her anything

[@zoyadean2884]

I really didn’t like the point they made that she’s her MOTHER, so she should forgive her. It takes more than giving birth to a child to be a mother or father, the first thing a mother would do is to protect their child and her mother has failed to do that, that ain’t no mother that’s a birth giver in my eyes.